Vicious Pit Bulls and Kitties don't mix...

[Kaneman]

Please support breed restriction and legislation in your local city. We need to eradicate the country of these vile beasts posing as family pets. Just waiting to kill shit.

I see your Schwartz is as big as mine...
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0037.jpg

You shall perish Canine!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0035.jpg

ARRRRGG...I have no defense for your tiny teeth.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0039.jpg

Fuck it...I'll eat my own foot.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0049.jpg

Gotcha!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0057.jpg

Well if Dad won't let me eat the cat I'll just have to take it out on this guy.http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0085.jpg

You know you can't stay mad at this face...
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0018.jpg

[shmike]

Cute Pics!

[buzzcutt2]

Why would anyone own a pit and a cat? :lmao:

[MILK]

Why would anyone own a cat? :lmao:

Fixed it!! :lmao:



Disclaimer:
I am an animal lover of all animals, just prefer dogs.

[Trip]

Fixed it!! :lmao:



Disclaimer:
I am an animal lover of all animals, just prefer dogs.

AWESOME

Disclaimer:
I wish death on all cats.

[MILK]

:lol:

[Kaneman]

AWESOME

Disclaimer:
I wish death on all cats.

Can't say I blame you....but it's pretty much the only thing my wife has asked me for since we got married. At least its self sufficient so I don't have to mess with it.

[AquaPython]

nice

[azoomm]

Violence begets violence

:rofl:

[Kaneman]

Why would anyone own a pit and a cat? :lmao:

The Pit is the smallest of the cat's worries..

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0078.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/DSC_0090.jpg

[z06boy]

Funny pics !!

I've got some old 35mm shots of a couple of Pits I owned playing with a couple different kittens...funny stuff.

[buzzcutt2]

My pit mix took a swat from a family member's cat before...the claw got stuck in the side of her face, she didn't know what to do - it was quite comical. Never did attack the cat.

[z06boy]

My pit mix took a swat from a family member's cat before...the claw got stuck in the side of her face, she didn't know what to do - it was quite comical. Never did attack the cat.

:lol: :lol:

[Apoc]

how dare you! I demand you have that vile creature put down immediately!!! WTF are you thinking, dont you know thats an evil, violent breed? Just look how mean he is!

[Krypt Keeper]

Looks like my house. While I no longer have my pit, I have a German Shepherd and Malamute mix. I have seen her round up kittens and give them baths, wife had to save some bunnies and she did the same to them.

Wife got a cat last yr only 8 weeks old, hissed and nearly made my dog shit herself. My dog basically ran from the cat for 6 months.

Got lots of pics of them now playing, and like yours my dog is the one being attacked. I have to actually tell my dog to go kick the cats ass and stop running from him. She will take a paw and knock over the cat over, put his head into her mouth and jump back waiting for him to leap like the ninga tiger he is.

[tached1000rr]

Why would anyone own a pit and a cat? :lmao:

I have a pit and the rest of my family owns 2 cats(I don't claim the cats). I can post of pics of the pit in my avatar sleeping beside the cat in the bed.

[Ninjakel]

Jaxx looks great Josh!!! ( But I am biased...i love APBT's)

[Trip]

Can't say I blame you....but it's pretty much the only thing my wife has asked me for since we got married. At least its self sufficient so I don't have to mess with it.

yeah, I understand pleasing the ball and chain. Thank god mine hates pretty much pets in general, though I wouldn't mind having a dog. I wouldn't go around skinning cats or putting them on microwaves or hurting them in anyway, but when people tell me to see their cat because it is different and cool, I just want to pimp slap them. All cats are the same, exactly the fucking same, annoying stupid animals.

[Kerry_129]

All cats are the same, exactly the fucking same, annoying stupid animals.

:lol Sorry man, you're just wrong about the 'same' part. We have a herd of 4, and they all have extremely different & distinct personalities. Annoying and stupid is a component that's present sometimes, as well as cool/funny, very personable, and low-maintenance most of the time. Your statement is similar to saying 'all dogs are smelly & obnoxiously dependent'. :shrug:

As for pit bulls, I know they're a great breed that can be excellent pets/companions - but I also know a guy personally who had his face ripped open to the tune of 70+ stitches by his pit, a docile long-time family pet without any prior aggression problems.
I know it's not at all common (with a properly trained/treated animal), and I think pits are a very unfairly singled-out breed - but there's not much denying that in rare instances pits & other 'dangerous' breeds are quite capable of lashing out without warning or undue provocation. Not saying it makes any of the breeds 'bad', or justifies 'banning' (except for fookin chihuahuas!) - but it does happen occasionally.

Cute pics though!

[MILK]

:lol but there's not much denying that in rare instances ANY DOG is quite capable of lashing out without warning or undue provocation.

No really - it's any dog. ;)

Speaking of cats and biting though.. My husband was put on antibotics when a cat bit through his wrist. Cat mouths have really really nasty bacteria..

[Kaneman]

As for pit bulls, I know they're a great breed that can be excellent pets/companions - but I also know a guy personally who had his face ripped open to the tune of 70+ stitches by his pit, a docile long-time family pet without any prior aggression problems.
I know it's not at all common (with a properly trained/treated animal), and I think pits are a very unfairly singled-out breed - but there's not much denying that in rare instances pits & other 'dangerous' breeds are quite capable of lashing out without warning or undue provocation. Not saying it makes any of the breeds 'bad', or justifies 'banning' (except for fookin chihuahuas!) - but it does happen occasionally.

Cute pics though!

I hear lots of third hand stories like this, and I mean lots...but I have yet to talk to someone who's "family" pet turned on them. I wonder why that is? That being said, based on my experience with dogs these people are doing something terribly wrong to have their dogs bite them. Anyway, until I actually see it first hand or have an in depth conversation with someone its happened to I'm going to deny that "pits and other 'dangerous' breeds are quite capable of lashing out without warning or undue provocation"

Scientific temperament testing shows Pit Bulls to be among the most stable of all dog breeds, even surpassing Great Danes. I've been working with a lot of "dangerous" aggressive dogs lately and have found in every single case (that I've personally worked on) the behavior was a direct response to human influence. That could be from sustained abuse or owners who are neglectful (don't exercise their dog, maintain pack order, etc.) None of the dogs I've worked with, yet, have been Pit Bulls though.

I think the truth of the matter is likely that a lot of people want big working or hunting type dogs without being willing to do the work required to ensure a lifetime of stability.

[MILK]

My family dog bit me several times as a child. He was a poodle and it was always because I was either annoying the shit out of him or there was a thunderstorm and I was annoying the shit out of him...

[Kerry_129]

I've been working with a lot of "dangerous" aggressive dogs lately and have found in every single case (that I've personally worked on) the behavior was a direct response to human influence.
...
I think the truth of the matter is likely that a lot of people want big working or hunting type dogs without being willing to do the work required to ensure a lifetime of stability.

I can definitely believe & agree with that - and there lies the rub. Playing devils' advocate (not arguing for 'bans') - many owners are simply not going to treat/train/discipline a dog properly, and those dogs are typically the ones with the capacity to be 'dangerous', regardless of breed (though obviously size/musculature can make a big difference). There are good responsible owners such as yourself who raise/train dogs properly, but there are also plenty who to some degree are neglectful/abusive or simply not knowledgeable enough to properly train a potentially dangerous animal. What then? Where's the balance between personal rights to keep & train/not train animals as one sees fit (barring outright neglect/abuse), vs. the rights of society to not have themselves or their kids exposed to potentially dangerous improperly trained/restrained animals?

(disclaimer: I know in the scope of things, dog attacks are one of the last things I'd worry about if I had kids, especially since I would make sure my kids knew not to be little brats & provoke a dog - just internet debatin' )

[Kaneman]

Hell Kerry, when's the last time you heard of a Pit Bull carrying two handguns onto a University campus and shooting every last student in sight? How about two Rottweilers teaming up and mowing down their high school classmates with shotguns and pistols?

Bad parenting sucks, doesn't matter if its with dogs or humans. I'm all for PARENT bans...just not breed bans.

[Smittie61984]

Bad parenting sucks, doesn't matter if its with dogs or humans. I'm all for PARENT bans...just not breed bans.

I wouldn't agree with breed bans either. But with that said I do not see why anyone really would want to own a pitbull unless they plan to fight them or use them as a penis extension. Just about all of my friends own them and they seem like useless pets (not as useless as a bulldog though). You have to worry about them getting outside and running off, they like to crawl all over you and your guests, they can't fetch, you can't take them to dog parks without them fighting, nor do they seem too bright.

Maybe it's the owners but if so then there are a lot of shitty ass pit bull owners which is why I'm very skeptical of someone owning a pitbull.

[Kaneman]

I wouldn't agree with breed bans either. But with that said I do not see why anyone really would want to own a pitbull unless they plan to fight them or use them as a penis extension. Just about all of my friends own them and they seem like useless pets (not as useless as a bulldog though). You have to worry about them getting outside and running off, they like to crawl all over you and your guests, they can't fetch, you can't take them to dog parks without them fighting, nor do they seem too bright.

Maybe it's the owners but if so then there are a lot of shitty ass pit bull owners which is why I'm very skeptical of someone owning a pitbull.

There are a lot of shitty ass Pit Bull owners, yes. This breed has been selected to be the current tough guy dog by every thug in all the hoods from NY to CA. Before them it was the Rottweiler and before them it was the Doberman.

All the problems you describe, running off, crawling on guests, not fetching etc and not going to the dog part are all 100% issues caused by people. They are a very intelligent breed, loyal, great with children, powerful, determined, decent olfactory equipment, robust and healthy (few genetic issues) and have amusing fun loving personalities. They can do search and rescue work, run agility, or just serve as a good exercise partner.

I rescued my Pit from the shelter at 3 months old. He does not jump on people, ever. He goes to the dog park 3-4 times a week and despite being jumped a couple of times has never been in a fight. He fetches in and out of the water, runs miles upon end by my side (while I'm a bicycle), and is learning to run agility and frisbee. He also learns new commands much, much faster than my Lab does and is EXTREMELY receptive to training. In fact, training is its own reward with him. He has learned all this and is only 6 months old now.

All of your friends need to pick up a book and learn something about dogs before they find themselves in trouble.

[shmike]

Pit bull owners are like Ducati owners, there are two types:

1. The posers who need it to look badass, wealthy, cool, fast, whatever.

2. The true aficionados who refuse to admit that there are other breeds/brands that will do the same job/task/etc. with less money, effort and risk.

[Ninjakel]

I'm a number 2


and Loki says Hi :)

[shmike]

I'm a number 2


and Loki says Hi :)

His eyes scare me.

Sushi?

[Ninjakel]

Yes.

when and where??? Call Leon and let us know

[tached1000rr]

Kaneman, my daughter is doing a school project on stereo types of APBTs, would you mind emailing me copy of the pics with the kitty attacking the pup?

[Kaneman]

Kaneman, my daughter is doing a school project on stereo types of APBTs, would you mind emailing me copy of the pics with the kitty attacking the pup?

Not at all, if helpful I have some other pics of my old APBT being friendly as well. PM me your email.

[Adeptus_Minor]

There are a lot of shitty ass Pit Bull owners, yes. This breed has been selected to be the current tough guy dog by every thug in all the hoods from NY to CA. Before them it was the Rottweiler and before them it was the Doberman.

All the problems you describe, running off, crawling on guests, not fetching etc and not going to the dog part are all 100% issues caused by people. They are a very intelligent breed, loyal, great with children, powerful, determined, decent olfactory equipment, robust and healthy (few genetic issues) and have amusing fun loving personalities. They can do search and rescue work, run agility, or just serve as a good exercise partner.

...

All of your friends need to pick up a book and learn something about dogs before they find themselves in trouble.

Yet another factor I've found in my rather drawn out research process (yes, I'm still looking at the possibility of owning a dog) is the concept of dogs that are not for inexperienced or lazy owners.
It seems like a lot of the cases where people have aggressive or badly behaved dogs can be linked to those owners' failure to understand the special needs of the breed or lacking the skills to manage them.

...but you've kind of already said all that. :lol:

[Kaneman]

Yet another factor I've found in my rather drawn out research process (yes, I'm still looking at the possibility of owning a dog) is the concept of dogs that are not for inexperienced or lazy owners.
It seems like a lot of the cases where people have aggressive or badly behaved dogs can be linked to those owners' failure to understand the special needs of the breed or lacking the skills to manage them.

...but you've kind of already said all that. :lol:

You can effectively lead a Bulldog without too much exercise, so that's not a bad dog for lazy people. Still very important to strive to be the leader and make sure your dog knows...but still, not as much exercise involved with these guys.

[Smittie61984]

Kaneman. I see your point but I think genetically pitbulls are aggresive animals. I think there is no way to compare the gentleness of a say a labrador vs a pitbull. Labs could muck a human up just as easily as a pit bull but you rarely hear of lab attacks.

Maybe the breed should be regulated. If you use the phrase "Gixxer" and own an Affliction T-shirt then you should not be allowed to own a pitbull.

Though I must retract an earlier statement about how there should be no dog breed bans. I think the Bulldog should be banned.

[Kaneman]

Real shame that people feel that way Smittie, but little can be done to change people's pre-conceived notions.

[Dnyce]

Real shame that people feel that way Smittie, but little can be done to change people's pre-conceived notions.

hell thats true about everything in the world

[Amber Lamps]

Pit bull owners are like Ducati owners, there are two types:

1. The posers who need it to look badass, wealthy, cool, fast, whatever.

2. The true aficionados who refuse to admit that there are other breeds/brands that will do the same job/task/etc. with less money, effort and risk.

Nope pitbulls are the GSXRs of the dog world! They are owned mostly by jackasses that have no clue how to properly utilize them, thus making all the legitimate owners jackasses by association. No offense but I also agree that "most" pitbulls I've ever seen were fucking stupid, stubborn and aggressive towards other dogs. I guarantee that my old Australian Shepherd/Border Collie mix would run circles around any Pitbull in any type of intelligence test. My new dog the Rhodesian Ridge back... not so much...:lol: Although, he is very social and easily trained, there's not much going on behind those eyes. Since he's a lazy breed, he's perfect for my lazy ass and that's why I got him.

[101lifts2]

..... My new dog the Rhodesian Ridge back... .

Pics or he doesn't exist.

[Amber Lamps]

Posted before...

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/lontigger/kdk_0874.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/lontigger/kdk_0701-1.jpg

[z06boy]

There are a lot of shitty ass Pit Bull owners, yes. This breed has been selected to be the current tough guy dog by every thug in all the hoods from NY to CA. Before them it was the Rottweiler and before them it was the Doberman.

All the problems you describe, running off, crawling on guests, not fetching etc and not going to the dog part are all 100% issues caused by people. They are a very intelligent breed, loyal, great with children, powerful, determined, decent olfactory equipment, robust and healthy (few genetic issues) and have amusing fun loving personalities. They can do search and rescue work, run agility, or just serve as a good exercise partner.

I rescued my Pit from the shelter at 3 months old. He does not jump on people, ever. He goes to the dog park 3-4 times a week and despite being jumped a couple of times has never been in a fight. He fetches in and out of the water, runs miles upon end by my side (while I'm a bicycle), and is learning to run agility and frisbee. He also learns new commands much, much faster than my Lab does and is EXTREMELY receptive to training. In fact, training is its own reward with him. He has learned all this and is only 6 months old now.

All of your friends need to pick up a book and learn something about dogs before they find themselves in trouble.


Very good post. :cheers:

I agree with some other post here as well like the Pit being the GSXR of the dog world :lol: but this one is spot on.

I'll have to scan/post some of my pics. I have not owned a Pit in years so all of my pics are old.

[Smittie61984]

Real shame that people feel that way Smittie, but little can be done to change people's pre-conceived notions.

People have taken grizzly bears and made them pets or they can make them ride a tricycle. But they are people who understand them very well and know how to properly raise them better than many people can raise a dog. Just like you and how you know how to properly raise a pitbull. Just because some people can raise a bear to be friendly doens't mean it'd make a great pet if "owners just knew how to raise them".

But most poeple don't have that knowledge and I think you can take the same shitty owner and give them a pitbull and a black lab and the black lab is more likely to not be aggresive.

My pre-conceived notion is that one dog breed is genetically different than another dog breed. If not then we'd only have one kind of dog out there. I think you can make a pitbull a great pet but it takes a lot of knowledge and skill to raise them that way. It doesn't take that much knowledge or skill to raise a non-aggresive labrador.

[Ninjakel]

Food for thought.

I've owned ABPT's my entire life, since I was a child. We also had Labs and other dogs too.

Guess what I got bitten by?? My nice gentle labrador. ( 18 stitches.)
Never once been bitten my a pit, either mine or any others.

My training of my pits is the same as Josh's.

[Kaneman]

People have taken grizzly bears and made them pets or they can make them ride a tricycle. But they are people who understand them very well and know how to properly raise them better than many people can raise a dog. Just like you and how you know how to properly raise a pitbull. Just because some people can raise a bear to be friendly doens't mean it'd make a great pet if "owners just knew how to raise them".

But most poeple don't have that knowledge and I think you can take the same shitty owner and give them a pitbull and a black lab and the black lab is more likely to not be aggresive.

My pre-conceived notion is that one dog breed is genetically different than another dog breed. If not then we'd only have one kind of dog out there. I think you can make a pitbull a great pet but it takes a lot of knowledge and skill to raise them that way. It doesn't take that much knowledge or skill to raise a non-aggresive labrador.

I'm not denying that dogs have different genetic makeup, we made them that way. However, it does not take any special training to raise a Pit Bull. There is no mystery system to subdue a Pit Bull's "aggressive nature" and keep them from attacking humans. I raise my Pit just as I raise my San Miguel Dog and my Labrador Retriever.

Strong minded, independent thinking dogs like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Dobermans, Boxers and so on have certain requirements that need to be filled or they will start going crazy. This does not show a genetic predisposition to attacking humans, it shows a higher level of intelligence and a strong work ethic. Yes, you need to know what you're doing to own a Pit Bull...but the exact same is true of all working breeds.

Pit Bulls are one of the least likely breeds to bite a human. Why? Because we genetically engineered them to never bite people under any circumstance. In the fighting ring dogs that turned on their handler who was breaking up a fight were culled or euthanized. In fact, they are not even the best guard dog out there because of their usual unwillingness to bite people. Now you will think to yourself, but I see on the news all the time about people getting mauled by Pit Bulls.

True, the news covers every Pit Bull attack they can find. Pit Bull is a scary name and it makes for good headlines. In the hands of the family that raised the dogs that make the news any other breed would've met a similar fate. Furthermore, many of the dogs the media calls Pit Bulls are mutts or Boxers.

The worse part about it all is extreme over breeding. I take my dogs walking every day, and without fail someone will stop me and ask if I want to breed my Pit Bull. They never ask about my other two dogs because Pit Bulls are money right now. With more dogs comes more incidents, and it is true that scum are attracted to the Pit Bull breed. Seriously, I can't stand most Pit Bull owners.

Last point. Out of my three dogs, without question, the most likely to bite a human is my female Chocolate Lab.

[Ninjakel]

I get people asking me to stud Loki out. :lol:

Um, I neutered BOTH my dogs at 7 months old. :lol:

Out of both my boys, my Boxer I think would actually be more agressive. My Pit is a total submissive.

But they both get along with other dogs. My Pit ignores strange dogs.

and Tig, your Rhodesian is gorgeous :)

[Tmall]

We used to have a lab living with us.

She was definitely more aggressive than my boxer.

If you ignorantly said you disliked black ppl, everybody would jump down your throat. Yet, they're always on the news. La riots? Lotsa black ppl. Do you dislike black ppl too because they're genetically different? Sounds a bit retarded doesn't it?

[Smittie61984]

If you ignorantly said you disliked black ppl, everybody would jump down your throat. Yet, they're always on the news. La riots? Lotsa black ppl. Do you dislike black ppl too because they're genetically different? Sounds a bit retarded doesn't it?

That's different. They are being kept down by "The Man" and can't help it.
But from what I am gathering if we renamed the pitbull from Pitbull to Fluffy Sunshine and rainbows they'd be in the news less?

[Kaneman]

That's different. They are being kept down by "The Man" and can't help it.
But from what I am gathering if we renamed the pitbull from Pitbull to Fluffy Sunshine and rainbows they'd be in the news less?

Not exactly. You'd also have to make them less attractive to scum and put an end to the rampant over breeding.

Actually...the new name might just work.

[MILK]

Um I have had labs come after me, but never a pit. Choc lab down the street came after me and my rottie several times. It all boils down to personal experience.

[Ninjakel]

All the guys on the south florida forum will tell you that my Pit just wants to have his belly scratched :lol:

Josh was with us down here when he picked up Loki as a 6 week old pup.

[Kaneman]

Josh was with us down here when he picked up Loki as a 6 week old pup.

And I still think "Kanedog" would've had a nice ring to it!! lol

[Ninjakel]

Hahahahahahahahaha :lol:


Ya know, it was our old Boxer, Raja who LOVED you :lol:

[Kaneman]

Hahahahahahahahaha :lol:


Ya know, it was our old Boxer, Raja who LOVED you :lol:

That's one of the coolest dogs I've ever been around. Damn dog used to wake me up every night to hang out.

[Amber Lamps]

Food for thought.

I've owned ABPT's my entire life, since I was a child. We also had Labs and other dogs too.

Guess what I got bitten by?? My nice gentle labrador. ( 18 stitches.)
Never once been bitten my a pit, either mine or any others.

My training of my pits is the same as Josh's.


See honey, that's the problem. In one sentence pit owners say, "you can't judge an entire breed based on isolated incidences" and in another they give their one dog as an indication of the entire breed's temperament. The thing is your or Kaneman's couple good dog stories are no more important or compelling than any two vicious dog stories. Besides, I can tell a story about a Chihuahua that bit me when I was 12, show me a story where one killed a 3 year old child or got out and viciously attacked and killed a neighbor's pair of poodles. My opinion is that Labradors can be raised mean and Pit Bulls can be raised nice but in both cases, effort has to be made.

Besides, I'm sure you all will deny this but I find it hard to believe when people try and tell me they get dogs with vicious reputations NOT because they are "bad ass" but because they are "cute, gentle and wonderful family pets". That's like me trying to say that I didn't buy my Busa or GSXRs because of their performance reputation. I mean if that's why, then why clip the ears and tail to give them that mean, aggressive look? When my dog goes out, I have zero concern that he'll attack any people or other dogs. Can all of you pit owners honestly say the same? Remember that's ZERO concern.

[Kaneman]

When my dog goes out, I have zero concern that he'll attack any people or other dogs. Can all of you pit owners honestly say the same? Remember that's ZERO concern.

Yes, I can say I honestly have zero concern that my Pit will ever bite a human (that isn't breaking into my house anyway). No effort has to be made to make a Pit Bull "nice", that is their natural temperament.

I hate getting dragged into the classic Pit Bull argument. I should've given this thread a different title I suppose.

[Amber Lamps]

How many Golden Retrievers get these kind of headlines? This was a pit puppy btw.

http://www.witn.com/crime/headlines/56347087.html

There's another story where the family dog attacked a 5 year old but I can't find it. I'm not saying that Pitbulls are inherently evil or anything BUT I do honestly believe that they are much more aggressive than say a Labrador on average. I don't understand why some of you are trying to deny that.

[Amber Lamps]

Yes, I can say I honestly have zero concern that my Pit will ever bite a human (that isn't breaking into my house anyway). No effort has to be made to make a Pit Bull "nice", that is their natural temperament.

I hate getting dragged into the classic Pit Bull argument. I should've given this thread a different title I suppose.


Yea, let's drop it. There's no real point to this debate. I've grown up around pits and I think that for the most part, they are a decent dog but no one can deny that they were specifically bred to be aggressive. I won't call you a liar but I've never gone into a house with a Pitbull in 13 years in the service industry where the customer wasn't concerned that the dog might bite me.:idk:

[Kaneman]

How many Golden Retrievers get these kind of headlines? This was a pit puppy btw.

http://www.witn.com/crime/headlines/56347087.html

There's another story where the family dog attacked a 5 year old but I can't find it. I'm not saying that Pitbulls are inherently evil or anything BUT I do honestly believe that they are much more aggressive than say a Labrador on average. I don't understand why some of you are trying to deny that.

Because you're being misled. As I stated, my female choc lab is much more likely to bite a human than my other two dogs.

"Family dog" is subjective and often refers to a dog who's lived its life in the back yard chained or otherwise without any formal training or structure. Also as previously stated, Pit Bulls attract scum. If you read the story you linked to you'll notice that the person in possession of the dog at the time of the incident was a friend of the owner....he was watching the dog because the owner was in jail. Puppies chew things, they should never be left alone with babies.

Golden Retrievers don't get those kind of headlines because the media isn't interested for the most part. But Goldens also have the luxury of having owners who tend to care more for their dogs than Pit Bull owners. Yes, Golden Retrievers bite people. However, just to prove the point:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/12275--3-year-old-child-mauled-by-dog

[Ninjakel]

FYI, my Pits ears are NOT cropped, nor is his tail.

[Amber Lamps]

FYI, my Pits ears are NOT cropped, nor is his tail.

Yea I know, trust me, when people start bashing on GSXRs I have just as hard of a time not taking it personally!:lol: BTW I like the way your dog looks, I think the cropping make the dogs look evil.

[Ninjakel]

hey, I know all about the Gsxr bashing.....there is currently 3 Gsxrs in our garage :lol:

[Amber Lamps]

Because you're being misled. As I stated, my female choc lab is much more likely to bite a human than my other two dogs.

"Family dog" is subjective and often refers to a dog who's lived its life in the back yard chained or otherwise without any formal training or structure. Also as previously stated, Pit Bulls attract scum. If you read the story you linked to you'll notice that the person in possession of the dog at the time of the incident was a friend of the owner....he was watching the dog because the owner was in jail. Puppies chew things, they should never be left alone with babies.

Golden Retrievers don't get those kind of headlines because the media isn't interested for the most part. But Goldens also have the luxury of having owners who tend to care more for their dogs than Pit Bull owners. Yes, Golden Retrievers bite people. However, just to prove the point:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/12275--3-year-old-child-mauled-by-dog

Wow that's terrible! Of course, you know I'm going to say that the child was probably provoking the dog. Anyway, do you really want to get into a news story battle? If you think that you can find more GR attacks child than I can PB stories....and that's really nice, calling these people "scum" just because the guy got into trouble with the law. You don't know what he did. Besides, this was a puppy and it chewed a child's foot partially off. This wasn't some fucking shoe, bro. I doubt you're gonna find a story about a GR puppy chewing a baby's foot off!

The other thing I meant to mention about ZERO concern includes new people coming into to your house or a service worker or delivery man stepping into your yard. Zero concern? I have it. FYI we had a vicious dog when I was a kid and he bit at least 10 people that I remember. He also attacked a few dogs as well. I swore that I'd never own a dog that I had to worry about it biting anyone/anywhere. It always blows my mind when people have to put the dog away when I come to their house, why would you want to live like that?:idk:

[quackPOT]

Loved the kitty attacking the dog pics, those were great! I think it is a shame that pits get such a bad rap. I love my dog.

[Kaneman]

I wouldn't get into that battle. Part of my pont was that the media covers APBT news more than other breeds. I expect my dogs to bite or intimidate any intruders who enter my home. I never leave them in the back yard. Therefore I have zero concern.

[Amber Lamps]

hey, I know all about the Gsxr bashing.....there is currently 3 Gsxrs in our garage :lol:

Yep! Besides, I'm not saying YOUR dog is bad but come on are you guys really trying to say that a Pit is not more likely to be a vicious dog than average?:idk:

[Amber Lamps]

I wouldn't get into that battle. Part of my pont was that the media covers APBT news more than other breeds. I expect my dogs to bite or intimidate any intruders who enter my home. I never leave them in the back yard. Therefore I have zero concern.

That's cool. So if I come over, I don't have to worry that your dog might bite me, right? I'm allowed to make "sudden moves" and get up and walk around the room at my leisure, right? I'm not trying to pick on you, I guess I've just had bad experiences with "vicious breeds" that causes me to be leery of them.:idk:

[Ninjakel]

Once you've walked into my house with us, its all good. My dogs aren't threatened by our friends. But you better believe they will bark their asses off and possibly bite to defend our home and me if someone breaks in.

[MILK]

I wouldn't get into that battle. Part of my pont was that the media covers APBT news more than other breeds. I expect my dogs to bite or intimidate any intruders who enter my home. I never leave them in the back yard. Therefore I have zero concern.

Something else that hasn't been pointed out yet is the media's tendency to label EVERY short haired dog a pit bull. That has become so common. They don't know what the dog is, and use 'pit bull' because it makes headlines.

Same with saying it's a pit mix. A mix is just a mix - and speculating on what breeds are involved (unless known) is ridiculous!! I've had so many people TELL me - not ask - what is mixed in my mix breed. It is infuriating. I don't even know what's in her, I rescued her when she was abandoned at 9 weeks.

[Amber Lamps]

Once you've walked into my house with us, its all good. My dogs aren't threatened by our friends. But you better believe they will bark their asses off and possibly bite to defend our home and me if someone breaks in.

I understand that, it's just that these dogs seem to have a hard time differentiating between "friends" and "intruders". Also, I've walked out of the room and come back and have suddenly become an intruder.:lol:

[Kaneman]

Yep! Besides, I'm not saying YOUR dog is bad but come on are you guys really trying to say that a Pit is not more likely to be a vicious dog than average?:idk:

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. In fact, according to the American Temperament Testing Society a Pit Bull is less likely to be vicious than an average dog. My personal experience with the breed backs that up. They are scored even higher than the Rhodesian Ridgeback.

That's cool. So if I come over, I don't have to worry that your dog might bite me, right? I'm allowed to make "sudden moves" and get up and walk around the room at my leisure, right? I'm not trying to pick on you, I guess I've just had bad experiences with "vicious breeds" that causes me to be leery of them.:idk:

That is completely absurd, and it is unfortunate you know people with dogs so edgy you can't make fast moves...this is 100% bad ownership. Yes, you can come into my house when invited and do anything without fear of being bitten. You can get down on your hands and knees and put your face in my Pit's food bowl while he eats. You can slap him in the face, you can grab his tail you can run from him and have no fear at all of being bitten.

I understand that, it's just that these dogs seem to have a hard time differentiating between "friends" and "intruders". Also, I've walked out of the room and come back and have suddenly become an intruder.:lol:

Not sure where you're getting your info from but Pits are smart dogs who are very much in tune with their owner's emotional state. If you are in someone's home is is fearful or leary of you then yes, the dog will likely share the same apprehension. Fearfulness in a canine can result in a bite. This is not breed specific. This is a matter of socialization and training...and if you don't do that with ALL working dogs you are likely to have problems.

To address another myth you threw out there earlier, Pit Bulls were not bred for aggression in order to win fights. They were bred for "gameness" and determination, which in turn made them better fighters. Determination CAN be focused into fighting prowess and it is true that when a fight starts a Pit Bull is more likely to win due to the same determination.

This trait is also what allows them to be such excellent pulling or search and rescue dogs. Basically you train them to do the job for you and they will go until they are physically unable. They are capable of pulling more weight per pound than any other breed not because they are the most powerful dog breed...but because they have determination.

As MILF said, any short haired dog that attacks a human automatically becomes a Pit Bull once it hits your local news so to the average viewer it seems that only Pit Bulls attack people.

Dude, look at Cesar Milan's Pit Bulls. He has an entire pack of these dogs, many with violent pasts, that live, eat and asleep together. Thankfully they are not aware of their own stereotypes because they manage to do this without killing each other. Look at his older Pit "Daddy". This dog is completely submissive to dogs and humans yet is personal protection trained. Yes, Daddy will fuck you up if you try to hurt Cesar...yet in all the years Cesar has been doing the show and all the homes Daddy has been taken in to he has never falsely identified a threat and bit anyone.

Your image of the Pit Bull is false. Simple as that.

[zuuk750]

I could not help but to chime in here. I have two pitbulls (see avatar). I also have a miniature pinscher, and two cats. the cats F the pits up on a daily basis, not intentionally, they're playing but the dogs play back very gently, thus ending up in a losing battle lol. the miniature pinscher also plays with the dogs, literally she hangs from their lips- WITH HER TEETH! what do they do? walk around, maybe roll around a bit. the other animals make them yelp.

If I put them (the pit bulls) out in the yard together, all they do is sprint around and tackle eachother, its how they play. in fact I have one on either side of me in bed right now. Now on the other hand, on the other side of the fence is a black lab and a yellow lab. when these F'in dogs see my pinscher, they start drooling, snarling, snapping at the fence, and digging. The one pit runs up to the fence and immediately lays on her back in a submissive state. I'm pretty sure I have covered every stereotype mentioned in this thread! I can even get pics/video to prove it lol. and lastly, none of my dogs have cropped ears, pits have their tails, the pinscher doesnt because the breeder did it before we got her. btw both pits are rescues.

[Amber Lamps]

That's great you guys but I'll never own one.:panic:

[Kaneman]

That's great you guys but I'll never own one.:panic:

Not everyone is man enough to own a serious dog, that's why we invented Shih Tzus. :lol:

I keed, I keed.

[zuuk750]

Not everyone is man enough to own a serious dog, that's why we invented Shih Tzus. :lol:

I keed, I keed.

:dribble::rockwoot::lol

[Amber Lamps]

Not everyone is man enough to own a serious dog, that's why we invented Shih Tzus. :lol:

I keed, I keed.

So you admit that your dog is a penis extension?:lol: That you only got that type of dog to be more "manly". Come to think of it, most people I see with Pits ARE scrawny white trash types.... Always walking them with huge chains wearing a baggy jeans and a wife beater.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/lontigger/PitBullBeerTee.jpg

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/793212/

[zuuk750]

So you admit that your dog is a penis extension?:lol: That you only got that type of dog to be more "manly". Come to think of it, most people I see with Pits ARE scrawny white trash types.... Always walking them with huge chains wearing a baggy jeans and a wife beater.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/lontigger/PitBullBeerTee.jpg

#1 dont call me scrawny, because I am not lol. :lol
and #2 that is again a stereotype, funny- nontheless stereotypical.
#3, my dogs have camo collars and leashes, ask sixxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxer.
#4:gofurslf:

:boobs::boobs:

[Amber Lamps]

#1 dont call me scrawny, because I am not lol. :lol
and #2 that is again a stereotype, funny- nontheless stereotypical.
#3, my dogs have camo collars and leashes, ask sixxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxer.
#4:gofurslf:

:boobs::boobs:

Who are you and why are you taking offense to something that doesn't involve you?:idk:

[Kaneman]

So you admit that your dog is a penis extension?:lol: That you only got that type of dog to be more "manly". Come to think of it, most people I see with Pits ARE scrawny white trash types.... Always walking them with huge chains wearing a baggy jeans and a wife beater.


Yes you're right, that's the problem with the breed. Not the breed itself but the type of owner attracted to the tough image. Its not white trash specific, in my neighborhood all the Mexicans with gang tattoos on their necks have Pit Bulls. In other parts of Dallas all the black bangers have Pit Bulls and out in the sticks where my wife's family live all the white trash guys have Pits.

I rescued my Pit Bull because I knew what great dogs they were and I felt like it might be my last chance to own one. Jax (my Pittie) won't even be a half as "tough" looking or intimidating as my San Miguel Dog, Jethro. Nor will he be half the guard dog that Jethro is. I don't really think Pits are all that tough looking personally...especially not next to Jethro.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/photo5.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/jethro2-1.jpg


ANY Molosser type dog requires a dominant owner and you need to know what you're doing to own one, or in my case, two males. However, it takes little more than exercise, work and a strong pack to ensure good behavior. And though I was poking fun at you, it is true that not everyone has the desire to assume that role over their pet and would prefer a more naturally submissive dog.

I enjoy and prefer it and find that by being a strong leader my dogs reward me daily. A large dog's ability to intimidate IS part of the reason I like them, to be honest. Though I could safely walk my dogs through a carnival or the mall without fear of incident I know I can rely on them for protection if necessary...though with 100lb of teeth and muscle at your side you are not likely to targeted as a victim. My wife walks the dogs alone at night with complete confidence.

[Homeslice]

So you admit that your dog is a penis extension?:lol: That you only got that type of dog to be more "manly". Come to think of it, most people I see with Pits ARE scrawny white trash types.... Always walking them with huge chains wearing a baggy jeans and a wife beater.

:lmao:

[zuuk750]

Who are you and why are you taking offense to something that doesn't involve you?:idk:

eh, took offense cuz I own two of them!

and kaneman, that dog is beautiful.

[Captain Morgan]

See the lower portion of my sig regarding cats.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Though I could safely walk my dogs through a carnival or the mall without fear of incident I know I can rely on them for protection if necessary...though with 100lb of teeth and muscle at your side you are not likely to targeted as a victim. My wife walks the dogs alone at night with complete confidence.

Autonomous Mobile Sword. :dthumb:

[HokieDNA01]

This is a picture of a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier. My parents have one that looks just like this. She is the SWEETEST dog with people but has sent numorous dogs to the vet for stitches due to her aggression toward all other dogs. I always joke with my mom that she would make the ultimate "sleeper" dog in a fighting ring because she is so dog aggressive. My parents have spent tons of money on socialization classes and obedience training and it has done no good. She now has to be carried past every dog she walks by and when I dog sit her and take her to the park, she wears a muzzle. Now you tell me if you think she looks like a dangerous dog? ALL dogs have the ability to be dangerous....cropped ears or not.
http://cdn-www.dailypuppy.com/media/dogs/anonymous/Aames_Coated_Wheaten_Terrier_01.jpg_w450.jpg

My cousin also got her face bit BADLY by a boxer as a child. She came to a house for
halloween and the boxer didn't like her mask and attacked. Had never shown signs of aggression before that. ALL dogs should be watched closely and you should be able to read their temperment in any situation.

[Kaneman]

Think you could outrun him?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/101_0486.jpg

[Amber Lamps]

This is a picture of a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier. My parents have one that looks just like this. She is the SWEETEST dog with people but has sent numorous dogs to the vet for stitches due to her aggression toward all other dogs. I always joke with my mom that she would make the ultimate "sleeper" dog in a fighting ring because she is so dog aggressive. My parents have spent tons of money on socialization classes and obedience training and it has done no good. She now has to be carried past every dog she walks by and when I dog sit her and take her to the park, she wears a muzzle. Now you tell me if you think she looks like a dangerous dog? ALL dogs have the ability to be dangerous....cropped ears or not.
http://cdn-www.dailypuppy.com/media/dogs/anonymous/Aames_Coated_Wheaten_Terrier_01.jpg_w450.jpg

My cousin also got her face bit BADLY by a boxer as a child. She came to a house for
halloween and the boxer didn't like her mask and attacked. Had never shown signs of aggression before that. ALL dogs should be watched closely and you should be able to read their temperment in any situation.


Of course you realize that this means that your parents are horrible dog owners and a weak pack leaders! Every dog that has been injured is the direct responsibility of your parents and they shouldn't be allowed to own a dog. *See previous posts that claim that a dog's aggression has nothing to do with the dog but is the fault of the owners!*:lol:

Better call Cesar!!!

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/lontigger/cesar2.jpg

You must realize that I am kidding. Some people think that there is no such thing as a bad dog. I disagree. Did you all know that Pits and Rots account for 67% of all fatal dog attacks? That isn't "media bias" it's a fact pulled from a govt database.:idk:

Anyway, man I had a great ride today and my gf has worn away her chicken strips completely!!!:rockwoot: We put on almost 300 miles in 6 hours of riding including lunch.

[azoomm]

You must realize that I am kidding. Some people think that there is no such thing as a bad dog. I disagree. Did you all know that Pits and Rots account for 67% of all fatal dog attacks? That isn't "media bias" it's a fact pulled from a govt database.:idk:

And, everyone knows breeds :skep: my dog was called a pit. She's a BLACK LAB. She was attacked by a terrier - the guy from animal control saw her for about 30 seconds then told someone in a statement she was pit.

Hokie, no offense meant - but terriers have serious little dog syndrome of strike first mentality. I'm not a fan.

[Amber Lamps]

And, everyone knows breeds :skep: my dog was called a pit. She's a BLACK LAB. She was attacked by a terrier - the guy from animal control saw her for about 30 seconds then told someone in a statement she was pit.

Hokie, no offense meant - but terriers have serious little dog syndrome of strike first mentality. I'm not a fan.

Okay, so every attack the animal control is called to, the ANIMAL CONTROL officers get the breed wrong? Right...I pulled that number from their database. No I'm not saying they are perfect but how often would you think that they are wrong? 50%? So ONLY a third(33%) of fatal attacks involve just 2 breeds? Oh yea that's much better.

Yea, I'm way over little dogs! Terriers are breed to be aggressive as well, aren't they?:lol: I don't know, I'm just fucking with y'all now! Shit, the most vicious dogs I've ever seen were a Chihuahua and a Pomeranian!!!:lol: In my experience, little dogs are assholes most of the time!:wink:

[HokieDNA01]

Oh I know Terriers are aggressive..they were bred for one reason...to kill.

And not all terriers are small so the "small dog syndrome" doesn't really apply. She is about the size of a pitbull. Not as muscular....but as tall or taller. My mom wanted her because she is "hypoallergenic". She is a good dog, just needs extra care in handling. I wouldn't call her a bad dog. Just proving the point that "mean" pits are not the only aggressive dogs out there. Sometimes the cute ones are too.

[the chi]

Wow. this thread has REALLY kept going.

I gotta say, I am in agreement with both sides. I do think that PB's have a bad rap, but also for a good reason in most cases. Poor owners are to blame for many of the actions dogs take, simply because the owner isnt "Alpha", hasnt learned the warning signs, or failed to nip things in the bud before they became an issue.

At one time I had 6 dogs, Shepard, Collie, Lab Mix, Jack Russell and 2 Papillons. My Jack was by far the most aggressive, but would never harm a person, but my shepard would eat you alive if you appeared to threaten me or the home, but at a single command from me she would heel and refrain from doing anything. I was the alpha member of the pack and every one of my dogs knew it. I rarely had to discipline or punish, my voice was more than enough to keep them in line. But I spent extensive time training them.

Now, 16 yr old "Bobby" with the beautiful red pit and her fancy spiked collar who is alternately yelled at, then petted and praised and always confused about her status, well, who can blame her for her poor training when she hasnt even learned acceptable behavior. Or the idiots who think its "cute" to sic their dogs on other animals or toys that resemble babies, puppies, kittens, etc.

[shmike]

What does APBT stand for?

[Ninjakel]

american pit bull terrier

[shmike]

american pit bull terrier

Terriers are the devil and are bred to kill!

[Ninjakel]

:lol: :lol: Its a good thing I like you Sean!

[the chi]

Terriers are the devil and are bred to kill!

:lol: Stereotyper!!

Hey Kel, you ever hear anyone refer to their Pit as a Staffordshire Terrier?

[Ninjakel]

Staffie's are very very similar, but a different breed. They tend to be a bit smaller. Their heads are a bit different too.

[askmrjesus]

Staffie's are very very similar, but a different breed. They tend to be a bit smaller. Their heads are a bit different too.

Is that because they don't have peoples arms hanging out of them? :lol:

JC

[Ninjakel]

:lol: :lol:

[HokieDNA01]

It can be very hard to tell. Only one of these is an American Pit Bull Terrier. Can you find it?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b202/CoalSky/SpotTheAPBT.jpg

[Ninjakel]

1) a dogo argentino?
2) An AmBully
3) a Staffordshire terrier
4) some sort of mastiff
5) APBT :)
6) American bulldog

[the chi]

:lol: Great post Hokie...I had a friend that had a Staffordshire...other than being on the small side, she was a dead ringer for a brindle pit.

[Ninjakel]

am I right????

[HokieDNA01]

Well damn it Kel. You could have left them guessing for a while. The mastiff is a Bull mastiff...

And check this shit out...this is NOT a photoshop. Its called double muscling and this dog is a whippet. creepy.

http://blogmuscle.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/wendy1.png

[the chi]

Well damn it Kel. You could have left them guessing for a while. The mastiff is a Bull mastiff...

And check this shit out...this is NOT a photoshop. Its called double muscling and this dog is a whippet. creepy.

http://blogmuscle.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/wendy1.png

Ive actually seen a tv episode about Wendy, the freaky whippet. Very interesting, a rare genetic problem whippets have...poor lady is accused all the time of doping her dog...can you imagine if humans were able to isolate and utilize something like that..?

[shmike]

Ive actually seen a tv episode about Wendy, the freaky whippet. Very interesting, a rare genetic problem whippets have...poor lady is accused all the time of doping her dog...can you imagine if humans were able to isolate and utilize something like that..?

They have:

http://www.thrillist.com/images/maps/3295.jpg

[Tmall]

Strange how since his father stopped giving him steepids, he's average sized..
Ever

[Kaneman]

It can be very hard to tell. Only one of these is an American Pit Bull Terrier. Can you find it?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b202/CoalSky/SpotTheAPBT.jpg

Don't you dare try to use that goddamn logic with Tigger! What's wrong with you Hokie?!? You really want a brain explosion on your conscience?

[Amber Lamps]

Have you met many animal control officers?

Your stats fail to paint the whole picture. You are less likely to be attacked by a pit bull than many, MANY other breeds and mixes of dogs. Pit bulls and breeds like them are just more likely to seriously mess you up when they do attack, because they are much more powerful, relentless animals than labs, retrievers, etc.

I've been on the receiving end of attacks from all sorts of canines (almost all of which were my fault, I'll add), and it's much easier to ward off a big lab than it is an extemely determined bully breed. When a poorly socialized pit bull (or a pit bull minus its owner) decides to attack, there isn't much short of knocking it unconscious that will make it stop. That said, most bully breeds I've encountered weren't aggressive in the first place.

Man this is like a gun control argument... it's never going to be the dog is it? 67% out of the what, hundreds of breeds, not to mention the mixes that DON'T get called out as pits...if you're ready to say they can be wrong one way, you have to be aware that they can call the breed wrong and NOT name it a pit after an incident.

What's killing me, one side says it's the owner's fault when dogs are bad. Hokie is saying that her parent's dog attacks other dogs but it's not the dog's or her parent's fault. You are almost saying that it's the person who gets attacked fault, and to top it off you think that animal control officers are idiots and more that 50% incorrect in their breed identifications.

I guess I'm confused, when a dog bites is it;

a. the owner's fault
b. the dog's fault/temperament/breed
c. the victim's fault
d. Cesar Milan's for making a bunch of suckers believe that they can own potentially dangerous animals without incident if they hold their collars a certain way.:lol:

Come on, I'm sure that we can all understand that it's a combination of a, b, and c (maybe a little of d as well :lol:) You can't just rule out the possibility that if Hokie's parents had owned a different dog (possibly even a pit) that the situation might be different and incident-less. That if the trailer trash had owned a poodle that the baby would still have it's toes. I honestly believe that dogs have individual personalities just like people and like people different types have different strengths and characteristics, in general. Stereotypes suck BUT they rarely just get started without any reason whatsoever. :idk:

[azoomm]

Tigger,

I think people need to be aware of the animals that they have. They are, first and foremost, animals that live life by instinct and learned behavior FIRST. Ignorance is not an excuse.

I am very aware that my dog, if put in the right situation, could kill. I just don't like the idea of putting any breed into a bracket. It's profiling... just because it's profiling dogs doesn't make it any better than profiling humans.

[Amber Lamps]

Don't you dare try to use that goddamn logic with Tigger! What's wrong with you Hokie?!? You really want a brain explosion on your conscience?

What logic? When did I ever say that "all animal control officers make perfect identifications"? In fact, I've given you 50% wrong! That's a fuck load plus, as I've said, if you maintain that they can be wrong one way, you HAVE to agree that they might make a mistake and not identify a pit mix and call it something else.

I'm glad that you all have good dogs, seriously. If you guys all go out and buy leopard cubs and swear they make great pets, I'm not going to get one of those either. :lol:

We had a wolf mix when I was a kid and the dog was great with us. I remember riding on it's back when I was little (really big dog). Killed a bunch of neighborhood dogs and bit a few kids.

I could tell you how he pulled me on my skateboard, or how we used to wrestle and he always let me win. How he woke us up when there was a fire (true story) or how he attacked some dudes that had chased me home from school.

Unfortunately, I could also tell you how we had to replace the front door because it used to be glass and the dog went through it after the mailman. He attacked my step mom when she came into my room to yell at me and he was on the bed (I kinda enjoyed that one). How a neighbor kid had to get a ton of stitches because she didn't see the dog and stepped in our yard. Or how a stupid neighbor's dog got loose one time too many and ended up with a broken neck.

[Amber Lamps]

Tigger,

I think people need to be aware of the animals that they have. They are, first and foremost, animals that live life by instinct and learned behavior FIRST. Ignorance is not an excuse.

I am very aware that my dog, if put in the right situation, could kill. I just don't like the idea of putting any breed into a bracket. It's profiling... just because it's profiling dogs doesn't make it any better than profiling humans.

Or any worse...

Yea you're right we shouldn't profile ANY animals. Go ahead and pick up that rattlesnake, they're not dangerous. They're just a victim of PROFILING!!!:lol:

Don't you agree that some breeds of dogs are bigger than others? Some are faster? Smarter? It always gets me that positive profiling is okay but don't you dare say anything negative!!! I don't care if you have facts, they must be wrong. I don't care if you have documentation, it has to be falsified or the documentors are idiots/incompetent. I don't care if there are thousands of news stories, it's media bias. (um, even the first story?) I don't care if you have personal stories, it must have been the circumstances/owners/victims.

When did it start becoming profiling/media bias? The 10th incident? The 100th?...the 1000th?...the 10,000th? :idk:

What if I told you that I have a pet leopard and it's an AWESOME pet! It plays with my kids and is so sweet! Would you go out and get one? Why not? Oh you've heard the story about the leopard owner in New York who was mauled...- he was a bad owner and didn't assert himself as pack leader. Huh, what about the 5 year old that lost his leg? Hey he was taunting the leopard and the animal was improperly exercised and trained. It's all just a bunch of media bias and sensationalism, don't pay it any attention! Besides, those animals may just as well been panthers, cheetahs or tigers, you know how stupid animal control officers are.:lol:

[Kaneman]

Man this is like a gun control argument... it's never going to be the dog is it? 67% out of the what, hundreds of breeds, not to mention the mixes that DON'T get called out as pits...if you're ready to say they can be wrong one way, you have to be aware that they can call the breed wrong and NOT name it a pit after an incident.

Unfortunately due to the prevailing mentality it is extremely unlikely that a Pit will be labeled as something else. However as shown by the photos there are numerous breeds that will certainly be labeled as Pits. Your assumption that Animal Control officers know how to correctly identify breed as a majority is farther off base than you know. I spend a lot of time at local shelters and it ALWAYS amazes me how little these people understand about dogs.

What's killing me, one side says it's the owner's fault when dogs are bad. Hokie is saying that her parent's dog attacks other dogs but it's not the dog's or her parent's fault. You are almost saying that it's the person who gets attacked fault, and to top it off you think that animal control officers are idiots and more that 50% incorrect in their breed identifications.

I'm not saying it is anyone's fault or pointing a finger from a perspective of blame. But it is true that many, many people who own dogs do not understand them and do not fulfill their needs. Using my own neighborhood as an example there are hundreds of dogs here...in almost every back yard. Yet you never see anyone walking them, because they don't. Most of those owners would consider their dog a "family pet" and be baffled if they developed behavioral problems.

Furthermore, in some cases it is a person's fault for being bitten by a dog. As dogs are a part of life in America the general pop should become educated on proper behavior when faced with a canine. For example, I will likely never be bitten by a stray dog on the street because I use the proper energy and body posture to ward them off without any violence. People who are fearful and run away or scream or who even try to preemptively strike the dog are likely to be bitten. There are very, very few Cujo dogs with bad wiring that are out to actively attack people.

I guess I'm confused, when a dog bites is it;

a. the owner's fault
b. the dog's fault/temperament/breed
c. the victim's fault
d. Cesar Milan's for making a bunch of suckers believe that they can own potentially dangerous animals without incident if they hold their collars a certain way.:lol:

You are always confused, and as is the standard in a Tigger filled debate you are using extreme and sarcastic examples to argue the other side down instead of engaging in an intelligent debate. Not a slam on you personally as I enjoy your posts.

Cesar's methods are real, they work and can be used to develop an extreme bond with your working canine companion. And be assured, if you own a powerful breed of working or hunting stock then they better be your working canine companion. Look at a situation as portrayed in Marley and Me. While funny on the screen, that type of ownership is likely to be behind any bites that occur...no matter what breed. A dominant dog will deal with any and all threats as a predator would, which works in nature...but not in the city. A dog who follows your lead will do exactly that without question. If your dog doesn't sit when you say sit and stay when you say stay then you have work to do.

Come on, I'm sure that we can all understand that it's a combination of a, b, and c (maybe a little of d as well :lol:) You can't just rule out the possibility that if Hokie's parents had owned a different dog (possibly even a pit) that the situation might be different and incident-less. That if the trailer trash had owned a poodle that the baby would still have it's toes. I honestly believe that dogs have individual personalities just like people and like people different types have different strengths and characteristics, in general. Stereotypes suck BUT they rarely just get started without any reason whatsoever. :idk:

Yes, different dogs call for different methods. It is a dog owner's responsibility to recognize their dogs need and how they respond to different training stimuli. Because Hokie's parents owned a dog that developed aggression issues does not make them bad people or even bad owners because true canine behavior is not common sense. As strong working and hunting dogs have been relegated to city living our perspective on dogs has changed as a majority and only now are many people learning that their city pet requires special exercise methods and actual work in order to fulfill their "beastly" desires.

What logic? When did I ever say that "all animal control officers make perfect identifications"? In fact, I've given you 50% wrong! That's a fuck load plus, as I've said, if you maintain that they can be wrong one way, you HAVE to agree that they might make a mistake and not identify a pit mix and call it something else.

I have no idea what you just said.

We had a wolf mix when I was a kid and the dog was great with us. I remember riding on it's back when I was little (really big dog). Killed a bunch of neighborhood dogs and bit a few kids.

I could tell you how he pulled me on my skateboard, or how we used to wrestle and he always let me win. How he woke us up when there was a fire (true story) or how he attacked some dudes that had chased me home from school.

Unfortunately, I could also tell you how we had to replace the front door because it used to be glass and the dog went through it after the mailman. He attacked my step mom when she came into my room to yell at me and he was on the bed (I kinda enjoyed that one). How a neighbor kid had to get a ton of stitches because she didn't see the dog and stepped in our yard. Or how a stupid neighbor's dog got loose one time too many and ended up with a broken neck.

I'm not sure what you're trying to show with the story of your boyhood wolf hybrid, though it seems you are helping to illustrate it is the owner and not the dog. You had a dog with a strong personality that your parents did not take proper steps to control. You were part of his pack so of course he didn't bite you and he let you win at wresting etc. However without strong leaders he also killed a bunch of dogs and bit a bunch of people. Tell me what steps were taken to control this dog and get his behavior under control? Why was he in the yard unsupervised? A dog with strong territory instincts shouldn't be left in the yard unless you expect him to protect said territory. Why was he attacking the front door and who worked to correct that behavior? Why didn't he sit on the rug and let out a few soft barks to alert you? These behaviors are not hard to achieve, but the dog can not usually do it on their own.

Or any worse...

Yea you're right we shouldn't profile ANY animals. Go ahead and pick up that rattlesnake, they're not dangerous. They're just a victim of PROFILING!!!:lol:

Dogs are the only animal that has been specifically bred as a personal companion to the human being. They are the result of genetic engineering even before we knew what genetic engineering was. They are completely unique in this aspect and can not be compared to reptiles. Unless you are sensationalizing a debate in an attempt to prove your point.

Don't you agree that some breeds of dogs are bigger than others? Some are faster? Smarter? It always gets me that positive profiling is okay but don't you dare say anything negative!!! I don't care if you have facts, they must be wrong. I don't care if you have documentation, it has to be falsified or the documentors are idiots/incompetent. I don't care if there are thousands of news stories, it's media bias. (um, even the first story?) I don't care if you have personal stories, it must have been the circumstances/owners/victims.

When did it start becoming profiling/media bias? The 10th incident? The 100th?...the 1000th?...the 10,000th? :idk:

What if I told you that I have a pet leopard and it's an AWESOME pet! It plays with my kids and is so sweet! Would you go out and get one? Why not? Oh you've heard the story about the leopard owner in New York who was mauled...- he was a bad owner and didn't assert himself as pack leader. Huh, what about the 5 year old that lost his leg? Hey he was taunting the leopard and the animal was improperly exercised and trained. It's all just a bunch of media bias and sensationalism, don't pay it any attention! Besides, those animals may just as well been panthers, cheetahs or tigers, you know how stupid animal control officers are.:lol:

Once again, you are using your own brand of sensationalism to prove a point and therefore losing the debate on your own. Leopards have not been genetically engineered for thousands of years to serve as a companion for humans. Dogs are animals, yes and they originated from wild undomesticated aminals yes...but their genetic make-up (which is unique in its ability to be manipulated) has been changed drastically since they were wild. Comparing them to completely wild animals such as rattlesnakes and leopards is absurd.

There are numerous factors that contribute to owning a well behaved and socialized dog of the working or hunting stock. Many of these factors are no longer common knowledge as these dogs are not being used as they were bred to be used. Dogs are highly adaptable and can easily be happy and satisfied in a city lifestyle if their owners are willing to learn their individual needs and take action. To make light of training methods such as those used by Cesar Milan by saying "oh well you didn't hold the collar right" is to completely miss the point of proper pack structure and also shows a bit of ignorance regarding canine behavior.

I was lucky, I grew up on a farm with working dogs and then lived in the city with my father who would've never tolerated a dog rushing the door at the mailman. I've owned everything from German Shepards to Pit Bulls to a 120lb Rottweiler to numerous working cattle dogs. Never been bitten or treated aggressively by any of them and never had them bite someone else. This is solely because my family understands how to handle strong dogs. I inherited that knowledge from my grandfather and my father and have expanded on it with the science that we have learned about dogs in the past 50 years. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have always been around well behaved dogs and doesn't take the initiative to learn. Instead when their dog develops behavior issues or bites the mailman they say, "We don't know what happened, he was a great puppy and then all the sudden he changed!" Then their once beloved family pet makes his way to the vet to get the needle. It happens everyday and I hear about it all the time.

Regarding Pit Bulls specifically the situation is even more bleak as (I have mentioned this) the typical Pit Bull owner is young and wants the dog for the tough image they are now (unfortunately) known for. They do not know the first thing about dogs and have likely never even seen a dog do real work (dogs are NOT pets, hamsters are pets. Dogs are working creatures) and don't even understand the concept of fulfilling their dogs needs. Pit Bulls are high energy and full of determination...yet many of their owners simply leave them in the back yard and in many cases chain them to a tree. This happens with other breeds as well but is more common with Pit Bulls.

The bottom line is that Pit Bulls are no different than other breeds of the Molosser ancestry yet suffer from a variety of factors that make them seem like killers to the general public.

[HokieDNA01]

My feeling is that ALL dogs need to have responsible owners. They are carnivore/hunters after all and have a pack mentality. I do think some dogs need more attention than other and I think pitbulls are one of those breeds. My parent's dog is one of those breeds as well. She is VERY sensitive to any negitive training and it is very hard for them now that she is older to discipline her when she freaks if you even so much as raise your voice, yet she is so focused when she is going after another dog that you almost have to smack/startle her to prevent her from further attack. Sometimes I wish there was a Dog Whisperer that could give them advice. She is a terrier though and it is well documented that they can be dog aggressive.

I think a well trained pitbull is a great dog and one of my personal favorites. Do I think everyone is capable of training and handling a pitbull. NO and unfortunatly they have become common pets to families that don't give them the love/training they need and for that the breed suffers.

[Kaneman]

My feeling is that ALL dogs need to have responsible owners. They are carnivore/hunters after all and have a pack mentality. I do think some dogs need more attention than other and I think pitbulls are one of those breeds. My parent's dog is one of those breeds as well. She is VERY sensitive to any negitive training and it is very hard for them now that she is older to disappline her when she freaks if you even so much as raise your voice, yet she is so focused when she is going after another dog that you almost have to smack/startle her to prevent her from further attack. Sometimes I wish there was a Dog Whisperer that could give them advice. She is a terrier though and it is well documented that they can be dog aggressive.

I think a well trained pitbull is a great dog and one of my personal favorites. Do I think everyone is capable of training and handling a pitbull. NO and unfortunatly they have become common pets to families that don't give them the love/training they need and for that the breed suffers.

I'd be glad to share some advice if you'd like to PM me some specific issues.

[HokieDNA01]

That would be great Josh. I think they have just gotten used to her behavior and think "can't teach an old dog new tricks" but she is VERY intelligent and I think they really could see improvement if they would work with her more.

[Smittie61984]

I'm glad that you all have good dogs, seriously. If you guys all go out and buy leopard cubs and swear they make great pets, I'm not going to get one of those either. :lol:
.

Come on. These guys did it so we all should be able to own lions. They aren't killing machines it's just a bad reputation...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDZaWgf_bk0

I aso ges my Border Collie is smart b kass uv eye and not his brieding.

[Amber Lamps]

Some people can't tell when I'm through debating and just having fun with them....:lol:

[Kaneman]

Some people can't tell when I'm through debating and just having fun with them....:lol:

It would not be unfair to say that was a predictable response.

[Amber Lamps]

It would not be unfair to say that was a predictable response.

Oh come on, I said about 5 posts ago that I was just screwing with you.:lol: I certainly don't care what kind of dogs you have! :lol: Yea I really belive that pit bulls and panther are the same thing! I only bring up the wolf mix because everyone always says that they are dangerous. Anyway, I'm the one that gets his panties in a twist, what are you trying to do...steal my fucking shtick?

[Ninjakel]

Oy Vey :lol:

[Kaneman]

Oh come on, I said about 5 posts ago that I was just screwing with you.:lol: I certainly don't care what kind of dogs you have! :lol: Yea I really belive that pit bulls and panther are the same thing! I only bring up the wolf mix because everyone always says that they are dangerous. Anyway, I'm the one that gets his panties in a twist, what are you trying to do...steal my fucking shtick?

If you say so man. All I know is that we were engaged in a good debate with you even going to the trouble of looking up internet stats and relating childhood stories to back up your point of view. It was enjoyable, then you pulled the "oh, I was just fuckin with you" card. *cough* smells like bullshit *cough*

People have been leary of Wolf Hybrids but it does seem they are capable of being well behaved companion animals., however, they are not as likely to look to a human for help for various tasks that they may not be able to do. Thus their genetic makeup doesn't allow for as close of a bond with humans. Your Wolf Hybrid obviously needed some help though.

Speaking of bonding with your canine, here's a pic from this morning's bike ride.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/091509bikeride.jpg

[shmike]

Speaking of bonding with your canine, here's a pic from this morning's bike ride.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/091509bikeride.jpg

No wonder you keep such macho dogs around, you gotta protect those bikes!

PeeWee Herman had pits too.

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pAiJdPZ3n8QEHwT1-D69yYlr1HcuXKO3YGcHawdl_QC_mIHcqdHfjPi8cmPQnaNXNhW qYRD1q7tM

[Kaneman]

PeeWee Herman was a connaisseur! And my wife thinks we look cute on our matching vintage Schwinns! lol

[Amber Lamps]

If you say so man. All I know is that we were engaged in a good debate with you even going to the trouble of looking up internet stats and relating childhood stories to back up your point of view. It was enjoyable, then you pulled the "oh, I was just fuckin with you" card. *cough* smells like bullshit *cough*

People have been leary of Wolf Hybrids but it does seem they are capable of being well behaved companion animals., however, they are not as likely to look to a human for help for various tasks that they may not be able to do. Thus their genetic makeup doesn't allow for as close of a bond with humans. Your Wolf Hybrid obviously needed some help though.

Speaking of bonding with your canine, here's a pic from this morning's bike ride.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g8/PsychoMedic/091509bikeride.jpg

Okay now you're being you... hold on, I'm getting into character.... me,me,me,my,my,my,mo,mo,mo.....deep breath...you're a star!!!!...okay..

Whatever dude! You're "debate" consists of "me and some of my friends have pits and they haven't eaten us or our kids" and "I know people who were bitten by non-pits" Whoopie fucking doo!!! I came to the table with loads of facts and you all bring suppositions, "well, the animal control people are stupid and label all biting dogs pits when in doubt", "it's media bias", oh and my fav, "it's unfair profiling".

Listen, if there are 100 robberies in the state of North Carolina in Sept and 67 of them were perpetrated by black people, it is NOT "profiling" to state that more black people than white people committed robberies! It is NOT "media bias". It's the fucking truth! I'm not going to shoot back, "well some of those so called black people were probably mixed, so it's an unfair assessment" or even "well you know how stupid cops are, if a guy has so much as a tan, they label him "black". Pit Bulls HAVE been involved in more than their "fair share" of attacks. They have attacked and killed children, they have chewed off a baby's toes, they have ripped off a child's face. It did happen. All the finger pointing in the world won't change those facts. Have other types of non-terriers been involved in attacks? Of course but Pit Bulls compromise only a small percentage of the dog population but they are involved in a very large percentage of attacks. You can chalk it up to mismanagement by owners or mistaken identification by animal control officers/the media if you want but you can not completely wash away the fact that the dogs are inherently dangerous imho.

See? I can turn it on or off AT WILL!!!!:lol:

[Kaneman]

Due to extreme overbreeding Pit Bulls are no longer a small percentage of the dog population.

[Amber Lamps]

Due to extreme overbreeding Pit Bulls are no longer a small percentage of the dog population.

What? Okay it's fact check time! I'll check but are you saying that Pit Bulls attack/capita numbers are in line with all the other breeds?

[Kaneman]

What? Okay it's fact check time! I'll check but are you saying that Pit Bulls attack/capita numbers are in line with all the other breeds?

You seem so confident that all these numbers you are researching are accurate. Do you think backyard Pit Bull breeders are registering their dogs and intentions with their prospective city? No. There is absolutely no way to account for how much these Pit Bull population has exploded in the past 5 or so years. Most of the Pit bull owners I talk to have plans to breed their dog. You can see it every time you go to the pound...full of Pitties. You can talk to Animal Control officers who routinely pick up litters of Pit Bulls. You can look at the dogs being sold on the side of the road...mostly Pit Bulls. To most Pit Bull owners breeding and making money is just part of the experience. Look up Pit Bull breeders on the net....look at all the scummy low class operations you find. Compare it to a search for Golden Retriever breeders.

My point is that if Dobermans or Goldens or Labs or Rotts or Mastiffs were considered the tough guy fighting dog then they would be the [I]victim[I] of over breeding, mal-treatment and numerous media articles quoting experts who claim they are dangerous beasts that should be outlawed.

[Amber Lamps]

Here's something...

http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2008/09/seattle-pit-bull-statistics-bites.html

Media bias? Okay how about this...

http://www.kake.com/news/features/2/3352771.html

Yep more media bias... These people claim that pits only account for 5% of the dog population...

http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2009/08/2009-us-shelter-data-shows-that-pit.html

Even if they were 10% of the population, they still account for more than half the reported attacks! No matter how you slice it, Pit Bulls account for more attacks than their percentage of the population would dictate. How can you disagree with that? Face it, most of us are crappy "pack leaders", very few of us are Cesars or Kanemans. If you want my honest opinion, you "superior" dog owners need to stop trying to convince the general public that these dogs are the same as any breed and rather push for special licensing to own this type of dog.

[Kaneman]

Here's something...

http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2008/09/seattle-pit-bull-statistics-bites.html

Media bias? Okay how about this...

http://www.kake.com/news/features/2/3352771.html

Yep more media bias... These people claim that pits only account for 5% of the dog population...

http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2009/08/2009-us-shelter-data-shows-that-pit.html

Even if they were 10% of the population, they still account for more than half the reported attacks! No matter how you slice it, Pit Bulls account for more attacks than their percentage of the population would dictate. How can you disagree with that? Face it, most of us are crappy "pack leaders", very few of us are Cesars or Kanemans. If you want my honest opinion, you "superior" dog owners need to stop trying to convince the general public that these dogs are the same as any breed and rather push for special licensing to own this type of dog.

I never said these dogs are the same as any breed, I said they're the same as any breed of the Molosser ancestry. Some people shouldn't have dogs, and some people shouldn't have certain types of dogs.

No bias? :lol: Dude, the name of the website is dogsbite. You basically pulled those stats from an anti-pitbulls site.

[Ninjakel]

this shit is still going on?? :lol: snort

[Amber Lamps]

You seem so confident that all these numbers you are researching are accurate. Do you think backyard Pit Bull breeders are registering their dogs and intentions with their prospective city? No. There is absolutely no way to account for how much these Pit Bull population has exploded in the past 5 or so years. Most of the Pit bull owners I talk to have plans to breed their dog. You can see it every time you go to the pound...full of Pitties. You can talk to Animal Control officers who routinely pick up litters of Pit Bulls. You can look at the dogs being sold on the side of the road...mostly Pit Bulls. To most Pit Bull owners breeding and making money is just part of the experience. Look up Pit Bull breeders on the net....look at all the scummy low class operations you find. Compare it to a search for Golden Retriever breeders.

My point is that if Dobermans or Goldens or Labs or Rotts or Mastiffs were considered the tough guy fighting dog then they would be the [I]victim[I] of over breeding, mal-treatment and numerous media articles quoting experts who claim they are dangerous beasts that should be outlawed.

Awwww... come on. I recognize that the numbers aren't perfect concerning ANY breed of dog. You once again want to single out Pit Bulls but there are all kinds of dogs, mutts if you will, that are being born every day without papers. There is no way, you are going to convince me that Pit Bull attacks are commiserate with their population numbers. Even if you could produce numbers that proved that PBs are 20% of the dog population, which is ridiculous, they still account for over 50% of the fatal dog attacks and I believe over half of the attacks in general. If every single, white trash guy, Mexican and brother owned a Pit Bull, it would still not compromise over half of the dog population!!!

[Kaneman]

What your numbers fail to account for is how much more likely a Pit or a Rott is to be obtained for the sole purpose of biting people. Owners with those intentions abuse their dogs in numerous ways and chain them and leave them intact to increase their aggression.

I don't doubt that Pits and Rotts are responsible for the majority dog fatalities. They are the most popular of the large powerful dogs and they are routinely "trained through mistreatment" to hate people.

This does not make them more likely to bite a person because of their breeding rather because of they way they are most commonly used.

[Homeslice]

The point none of you can prove is, how much of the attacks are due to poor training, and how much is due to any alleged "genetic personality"

The only way to settle this debate would be to do some kind of scientific test where you took several examples of each breed, straight from the mother's womb, and send them all to the SAME owner, who uses the SAME training methods, and then after some time goes by put them into controlled situations where you see how they respond to humans, and see if there's a difference between breeds.

[Amber Lamps]

I never said these dogs are the same as any breed, I said they're the same as any breed of the Molosser ancestry. Some people shouldn't have dogs, and some people shouldn't have certain types of dogs.

No bias? :lol: Dude, the name of the website is dogsbite. You basically pulled those stats from an anti-pitbulls site.

Yeah, I know, I just took the top three articles out of the THOUSANDS of articles on this issue. These are still numbers pulled from the emergency call centers, the animal shelters and etc. The problem with calling media bias on one issue is that it sets you up to receive the same treatment when the media says something you agree with. You can't have it both ways. Either they are ALWAYS biased and wrong or there is some semblance of truth there. FWIW the first time I put up the 67% number, it was from a dog training center that wants to help people properly train their PBs.

You know what? Where's YOUR facts to PROVE that Pit Bulls aren't dangerous? Pointing fingers at other dog bites doesn't make PBs any less vicious. Under that logic, I could prove that rattlesnakes aren't dangerous because Black Mambas bite too. Every time I post a figure or a fact, your response is that it's biased or wrong...Oh yea? Well prove it! I don't contend that my figures are perfect, there aren't any such thing, where are yours? You've shown that you, an expert dog trainer and Cesar Milan, also an expert dog trainer can own a Pit Bull without incident. Why does that mean that they aren't inherently dangerous? Where's your proof? I can post figures from animal shelters and emergency call centers all day that "prove" that PBs account for far more attacks than any other breed AND that absolutely show that they are responsible for more attacks than their numbers should call for. Where are your numbers and facts that say they aren't?

[Ninjakel]

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/

[Amber Lamps]

this shit is still going on?? :lol: snort

Hey I tried to bow out...:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

The point none of you can prove is, how much of the attacks are due to poor training, and how much is due to any alleged "genetic personality"

The only way to settle this debate would be to do some kind of scientific test where you took several examples of each breed, straight from the mother's womb, and send them all to the SAME owner, who uses the SAME training methods, and then after some time goes by put them into controlled situations where you see how they respond to humans, and see if there's a difference between breeds.

Hmmm that's a good point but my contention is that we all are crappy owners/"pack leaders" for the most part so why aren't there stories of Collies chewing the toes off babies? Do you all really believe that the media is suppressing these stories in an effort to demonize Pit Bulls?:lol: I'm a terrible "pack leader", I let my dog go out the door first and I use a Flexi leash. I'm fucking lazy and my dog gets minimal exercise and yet he hasn't attacked a single baby or dog... Well, I guess that I can claim to be an expert dog owner as well.:lol: Maybe, I should have a show on Animal Planet!:wink:

[Amber Lamps]

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/

Oh well if a pro-Pit organization says so... see what I mean about pulling the bias card? How can you post a pro-Pit organization as being the truth? Even on their site, I didn't see any numbers disproving mine. All I see are a bunch of opinions and some isolated stories of good Pit Bulls. Hey, I never said that they were all "EVIL" or whatever.:lol: Heck, even that site admits that some Pits have an aggressive temperament to humans and should be euthanized!

[Kaneman]

Shit, I missed 20 minutes and feel overwhelmed by the plethora of Tiggasponses.

[HokieDNA01]

Here is a NEUTRAL organization that tests dog breed temperements. Here is how they test...
http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

And here are the results. There are multiple pages. The "pitbulls" are listed under American Pit Bull Terrier.
http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

[Amber Lamps]

Shit, I missed 20 minutes and feel overwhelmed by the plethora of Tiggasponses.

Hey, can we take a break? It's hard to maintain this level of intensity when I really don't care....:lol:

Besides, I actually like pits for the most part, I'll never own one for the reasons put forth by myself and you.

[Kaneman]

Fuck no, I've spent the last hour digging up info to debunk all the Goddamn false statistics you posted up so just bear with me as I prepare my Pièce de résistance.

One thing everyone who reads this will be sure of by the end. Tigger and I need to get jobs.

[Amber Lamps]

Here is a NEUTRAL organization that tests dog breed temperements. Here is how they test...
http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

And here are the results. There are multiple pages. The "pitbulls" are listed under American Pit Bull Terrier.
http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

Didn't strike you as "odd" the disproportionate number of Pits and Rots that were tested?:idk: it just seems weird. Oh and did you actually read how the test is done and what it takes into account?

http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

[Amber Lamps]

Fuck no, I've spent the last hour digging up info to debunk all the Goddamn false statistics you posted up so just bear with me as I prepare my Pièce de résistance.

One thing everyone who reads this will be sure of by the end. Tigger and I need to get jobs.

Well, while you do that I'm going riding around campus and check mout the new eye candy!:drool:

[HokieDNA01]

Oh and did you actually read how the test is done and what it takes into account?

http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

Yes...I read it....:skep:

[Amber Lamps]

Yes...I read it....:skep:

Did you see that they take into account the dog's training? So if a dog is trained as an attack dog/security dog then aggressive behavior is permissible. Did you notice that a large part of the test has nothing to do with aggressive behavior but nervous behavior, curiousity, fear, etc? This test in no way proves that Pit Bulls aren't more vicious. The possibility exists that every Pit that failed, did so by attacking a tester and every Collie that failed, did so because it wouldn't cross a 15' piece of plastic. :lol:

Oh and who says they are "neutral", they claim "non-profit" status, not neutrality. :nee: Hey, whatever, I give, I give Collies are way more vicious than Pit Bulls, you guys are absolutely right!:lol:

[shmike]

Oh and who says they are "neutral", they claim "non-profit" status, not neutrality. :nee: Hey, whatever, I give, I give Collies are way more vicious than Pit Bulls, you guys are absolutely right!:lol:

Lassie was a farce!

http://www.mockpaperscissors.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lassie-and-timmy.jpg

[shmike]

Ten years later...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/455799627_2e31a186b3.jpg?v=0

[Homeslice]

when I really don't care....:lol:
.

:bs:



:lol:

[Kaneman]

Tigger and other haters of awesome dogs,
I have no illusions that you will read the links below or do the research that proves your own POV regarding American Pit Bull Terriers to be false and the result of hype and hysteria. However, with my own Pit Bull resting his cute lil' head in my lap throughout much of the day I felt obligated to come to his defense. Plus you dared me to prove my side, so here is the proof.
------

Karen Delise is director of research for the National Canine Research Council. She has spent over 20 years closely examining and evaluating dog bites with a focus on fatal dog attacks. She has extensive documentation and research to back up her findings. Despite your numbers claiming over half of fatal attacks were from Pit Bulls Karen found that: "Pit bull and pit mixes account for 21 percent of all human fatalities" This is based on an evalulation of 431 fatal dog attacks between 1965 and 2001.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ncrc-research/
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/


----------------------

The American Veterinary Medical Association formed a task force on "Canine Aggression and Human-Canine Interactions" to further investigate dog bites. They state:

“An often-asked question is what breed or breeds of dogs are ‘most dangerous’? This inquiry can be prompted by a serious attack by a specific dog, or it may be the result of media-driven portrayals of a specific breed as ‘dangerous.’ . . . singling out 1 or 2 breeds for control . . . ignores the true scope of the problem and will not result in a responsible approach to protecting a community’s citizens.”

Their report also shows why I kept denouncing the stats posted up regarding Pit Bull attributed fatalities:
"Dog bite statistics are not really statistics and they do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite.... There are several reasons why it is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds..."
http://www.avma.org/public_health/dogbite/dogbite.pdf
--------------------------

Here is an example of media hype as it relates to Pit bulls, this is a common occurence proven by people who research these articles regularly by fact checking:
http://www.kirotv.com/news/16648489/detail.html -
Media reports that two men save lil' girl from vicious Pit Bull attack.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/142027.asp -
The responding police officers confirm that a Pit Bull was playing with a girls shoelace and she got scratched. They also note that the dog was not aggressive.

-----------------------------

If Pit Bulls are so incredibly dangerous why don't cities who have enacted Pit Bull bans have decreasing bite numbers?
Council Bluffs, IA:
2003 (pre-ban) - total dog bites: 85

2004 (pre-ban) - total dog bites: 131

Ban passed to deal with unusualy high number of dog bites.

2005 (ban in place) -- total dog bites: 115

2006 (ban) -- 132

2007 (ban) -- 98

Aurora, CO:
2003-- 185

2004 -- 178

2005 -- 110

BSL in Aurora is passed here.

2006 - 129
2007 - 157

-------------------------------------------

Perhaps not really relevant, but amusing to me nonetheless.
http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2009/07/07/news/local/6035747a030c1edb862575ec001471d3.txt
(Lawmaker that pushed for Pit Bull ban based on typical hysteria has a Lab that bites someone and ends up on death row.)

-------------------------------

Despite the CDC's own report they claim:
"There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill."
---------------------------------

Here is an entire website that shows just how full of shit dogsbite.org is. There's a LOT of info there so feel free to do your own research as my post is long enough as is. The owner of the site was "attacked" by a dog she identified as a Pit Bull and started her own crusade.
http://rdows.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/exposing-dogsbiteorg/

There is so much legitimate research that debunks the myriad of myths and statistics put forth that have demonized the once beloved APBT floating around that it seems redundant to attempt to post even a fraction of it. I will close by saying my love for the breed comes from my own personal experience in the many, many years I have spent around dogs. My opposition to the anti-Pit Bull rhetoric is also enhanced by my belief that far too many people are ignorant, lazy, gullible, emotionally controlled and fearful. They believe that which is presented on the TV without question or research. These are the same types of people that were convinced Marijuana turned nice young college boys into sociopathic rapists and murderers, etc et al.

[Smittie61984]

George Bush hates Pitbulls - Kanye West

[Amber Lamps]

Ten years later...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/455799627_2e31a186b3.jpg?v=0

What the hell was that guy doing to that dog back there?!?!?!?!:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

:bs:



:lol:

Hey this is almost as much fun as arguing gun control with Amorok!!!:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

Hahaha! Dude, seriously? Did you just admit that Pits are responsible for 20% of all fatalities and aren't you the one that has repeatedly pointed out that "recently" the pitbull population has exploded? I'm old enough to remember when there wasn't any such dog as an American Pitbull Terrier. Or at least to my knowledge at the time. I also quoted the same chick and if you look at the more recent numbers and eliminate the decades where there were hardly any Pitbulls at all...well, I think you already know how it looks. Look at the numbers for the last decade for example. Shit, this is like proving that the AIDS scare is bullshit by pulling the number of AIDS related deaths from 1965-2005 and leveraging them against the number of total deaths from the same period.:lol:

Besides why do your numbers get to be facts and my numbers are false? Why are your sources so much more "non-biased"?:lol: Shit, most of that PDF is double-speech about how they can't make real statistical judgments... so that means neither of us are right. I mean, if they can't form accurate statistics that prove Pits are more dangerous, then they can't form stats that prove they aren't.:lol: So I guess that you win and all the stories about Pit Bulls attacking people and other dogs are complete bullshit! Btw my gf had a point, she watches Milan all the time, have you ever seen an episode where he goes up against an aggressive Pit Bull? I haven't.:lol:

[Kaneman]

Because my sources are respected professionals from the canine community and yours were not anywhere close to it. Given the population of PB's, the power they wield, the type of owner they attract etc I believe 15-20% is a much closer number than your 50%+. There are also numerous links backing up the extensive research of the sources I quoted.

I never said there wasn't a Pit Bull problem, there is indeed a very large Pit Bull problem...I just don't believe it lies in the dog's genetic makeup. I never said Pit Bulls weren't capable of killing humans. I said the numbers have been greatly exaggerated and the whole story isn't being told.

Yes, I have seen many episodes of the Dog Whisperer where Cesar "goes up against an aggressive Pit Bull" Milan also owns numerous Pit Bulls including the old one "Daddy" that used to be Redman's dog. Daddy is personal protection trained BTW.

Consider:
My study of fatal attacks occurring over the past five decades has identified the poor ownership/management practices involved in the overwhelming majority of these incidents: owners obtaining dogs, and maintaining them as resident dogs outside of the household for purposes other than as family pets (i.e. guarding/ protection, fighting, intimidation/status); owners failing to humanely contain, control and maintain their dogs (chained dogs, loose roaming dogs, cases of abuse/neglect); owners failing to knowledgably supervise interaction between children and dogs; and owners failing to spay or neuter resident dogs not used for competition, show, or in a responsible breeding program.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ncrc-research/

And from the CDC:
Dr. Randall Lockwood, one of the authors of the CDC’s “Breeds of Dogs,” as well as a member of the AVMA Task Force, submitted an affidavit in 2007 in opposition to the breed ban currently in effect in Denver, Colorado. He stated, in part: “Focusing on a single breed as the ‘source’ of the dog bite problem reflects a 19th century epidemiological mindset that attempts to identify the vector of a public health problem and eliminate that vector. . . The dog bite problem is not a disease problem with a single vector, it is a complex societal issue that must address a wide range of human behaviors in ways that deal with irresponsible behavior that puts people and animals at risk.”

[Amber Lamps]

Because my sources are respected professionals from the canine community and yours were not anywhere close to it. Given the population of PB's, the power they wield, the type of owner they attract etc I believe 15-20% is a much closer number than your 50%+. There are also numerous links backing up the extensive research of the sources I quoted.

I never said there wasn't a Pit Bull problem, there is indeed a very large Pit Bull problem...I just don't believe it lies in the dog's genetic makeup. I never said Pit Bulls weren't capable of killing humans. I said the numbers have been greatly exaggerated and the whole story isn't being told.

Yes, I have seen many episodes of the Dog Whisperer where Cesar "goes up against an aggressive Pit Bull" Milan also owns numerous Pit Bulls including the old one "Daddy" that used to be Redman's dog. Daddy is personal protection trained BTW.

Consider:
My study of fatal attacks occurring over the past five decades has identified the poor ownership/management practices involved in the overwhelming majority of these incidents: owners obtaining dogs, and maintaining them as resident dogs outside of the household for purposes other than as family pets (i.e. guarding/ protection, fighting, intimidation/status); owners failing to humanely contain, control and maintain their dogs (chained dogs, loose roaming dogs, cases of abuse/neglect); owners failing to knowledgably supervise interaction between children and dogs; and owners failing to spay or neuter resident dogs not used for competition, show, or in a responsible breeding program.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ncrc-research/

And from the CDC:
Dr. Randall Lockwood, one of the authors of the CDC’s “Breeds of Dogs,” as well as a member of the AVMA Task Force, submitted an affidavit in 2007 in opposition to the breed ban currently in effect in Denver, Colorado. He stated, in part: “Focusing on a single breed as the ‘source’ of the dog bite problem reflects a 19th century epidemiological mindset that attempts to identify the vector of a public health problem and eliminate that vector. . . The dog bite problem is not a disease problem with a single vector, it is a complex societal issue that must address a wide range of human behaviors in ways that deal with irresponsible behavior that puts people and animals at risk.”

You're going to totally ignore my point about there being few Pits from 1965-1985+ which makes her numbers stoopid!:lol: I don't disagree that it's not all the dog's fault but if the same crappy owner gets a Golden Retriever instead of a Pit Bull... I've said repeatedly that we people are terrible pet owners and "pack leaders", I totally agree! I still believe that if the crappy owner gets a GR vs a PB, the PB is far more likely to attack someone and if it does attack, it is far more likely to do serious damage and possibly kill someone. Go back to your stats and find out that there are or at least were far more GRs in the US than any other dog and see how many fatal attacks were carried out by GRs. Are there any?

Back when I was a kid, Dobermans and German Shepherds were the mean dogs. In fact if you check the numbers from 1965-1985 for which dogs were the dog bite kings, I bet it's one of these two! Then Rots got popular and finally Pits.

Facts are going to be facts, no matter if you like it or not. Shit, if you really want to prove that Pits aren't biters, why not go back to the 1800s? Why not post the dog bite numbers from Alaska to prove that Huskies are more dangerous? Colorado? Iowa? Could you have found smaller towns? What would the dog bite number reduction be in LA if all of the Pits/ Rots were eliminated?

[Kaneman]

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore a Tigoint. APBT's are a very old breed of dog and have been popular in America since long before you were born....they just didn't used to get a lot of media coverage as they do now. In fact, the most decorated war dog in World War 1 was a Pit Bull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

I strongly disagree that a poorly treated or chained German Shepherd is "far more unlikely" to bite someone than a Pit Bull and believe I have shown evidence backed up by strong research that proves that point. Chaining and abusing all dogs can turn them into people biters.

I don't have the bite numbers from LA...but I provided info that shows in at least two cities breed bans had no effect on bite numbers. Again, bite statistics are incredibly unreliable for reasons provided in my previous post and therefore not a clear indicator of reality.

[Amber Lamps]

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore a Tigoint. APBT's are a very old breed of dog and have been popular in America since long before you were born....they just didn't used to get a lot of media coverage as they do now. In fact, the most decorated war dog in World War 1 was a Pit Bull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

I strongly disagree that a poorly treated or chained German Shepherd is "far more unlikely" to bite someone than a Pit Bull and believe I have shown evidence backed up by strong research that proves that point. Chaining and abusing all dogs can turn them into people biters.

I don't have the bite numbers from LA...but I provided info that shows in at least two cities breed bans had no effect on bite numbers. Again, bite statistics are incredibly unreliable for reasons provided in my previous post and therefore not a clear indicator of reality.

So why do you get to use them?:lol: Oh and I said Golden Retrievers not German Shepherds. I never said that pits didn't exist, they did in ENGLAND! I don't know when they were first brought here or became APBTs. They were first bred as, hmm fighting dogs in the early 1900s. Oh and now YOU are going to mis-identify a bull-terrier mix as an American Pitbull Terrier?:lol:

HEY!!! APBT aren't even a recognized breed!!! No wonder that can't keep good records of their bites... they don't fucking exist as a breed!:lol: I'm looking at the AKC page and it hits me! Duh!:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

Hey you win, how can a breed that doesn't exist be dangerous?!?!?! There's a bunch mutts out attacking people but whatever they are, they aren't APBT because that breed does not exist. I may as well be arguing that DRAGONS are dangerous!

[Ninjakel]

They are UKC

[Kaneman]

So why do you get to use them?:lol: Oh and I said Golden Retrievers not German Shepherds. I never said that pits didn't exist, they did in ENGLAND! I don't know when they were first brought here or became APBTs. They were first bred as, hmm fighting dogs in the early 1900s. Oh and now YOU are going to mis-identify a bull-terrier mix as an American Pitbull Terrier?:lol:

HEY!!! APBT aren't even a recognized breed!!! No wonder that can't keep good records of their bites... they don't fucking exist as a breed!:lol: I'm looking at the AKC page and it hits me! Duh!:lol:

Nice fact checking, Ace.

[Amber Lamps]

Nice fact checking, Ace.

What the hell is the UKC? Well hush my mouth! I ain't never heard of no UKC! Shoot, when the lady gave me UKC paperwork for my dog, I honestly threw it away! No bull shit! Hey, I never claimed to be an expert! I'm SUPPOSED to be the irrational side of this argument!!!:lol: I'm still not sure how immigrants brought American Pitbull Terriers to this country but okay, it says so on the UKC website so it must be true!:lol:

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/AmericanPitBullTerrierRevisedNovember12008

Sometime during the nineteenth century, dog fanciers in England, Ireland and Scotland began to experiment with crosses between Bulldogs and Terriers, looking for a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the Bulldog. The result was a dog that embodied all of the virtues attributed to great warriors: strength, indomitable courage, and gentleness with loved ones. Immigrants brought these bull and terrier crosses to the United States. The American Pit Bull Terrier’s many talents did not go unnoticed by farmers and ranchers who used their APBTs as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. Today, the American Pit Bull Terrier continues to demonstrate its versatility, competing successfully in Obedience, Tracking, Agility and Weight Pulls, as well as Conformation.

The United Kennel Club was the first registry to recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier. UKC founder C. Z. Bennett assigned UKC registration number 1 to his own APBT, Bennett’s Ring, in 1898.

Dude the UKC has "events" and "shows", like dog pulls and what not.

The programs at UKC include Obedience Trials, Agility Trials, Weight Pull Events, Terrier Races, Dock Jumping Events, Total Junior Program, Dog Sports (including Family Obedience), Coonhound Field Trials, Water Races, Nite Hunts and Bench Shows, Hunt Tests for retrieving breeds, Pointing Dog Events, Beagle Events (including Hunts and Bench Shows, and Cur and Feist Squirrel and Coon Events and Bench Shows.

Dude, they even let mutts in! WTF!

Part of our mission is to have events where all dogs can compete. In addition to our purebred dog registry, United Kennel Club offers a Limited Privilege program. The Limited Privilege is open to all dogs that are spayed/neutered. This includes mixed breed dogs, purebred dogs of unknown pedigree, and purebred dogs with disqualifying faults as described in the UKC breed standards. The programs open to Limited Privilege dogs are Obedience Trials, Weight Pulls, Agility Trials, Total Junior Program and Dog Sports (including Family Obedience).

You have to admit that it's kinda funny that the UKC founder had one so he decided that this was a legitimate breed but the AMERICAN Kennel Club still says "mutt"!:lol: It sounds like somebody couldn't get his dog registered with the AKC so he started his own damn club!!!:lol::lol::lol:

[Adeptus_Minor]

:stirpot: <- Tigger

[Kerry_129]

I completely agree that the dangers posed by potentially dangerous breeds (all of them, really) are greatly aggravated by the actions/neglect/failure to discipline by their human owners. BUT, I can't help to conclude that that for whatever combination of factors, there's simply no denying that a few breed 'types' are responsible for the vast majority of fatalities. I think it's reasonable to assume a similar correlation with cases of serious injury. Based on the raw fatality stat's, Pits and Rotts are by far the leading breeds in dog-attack deaths, alond with a few others (and yes, I know a lot of bully dogs that aren't APBTs get lumped together as 'pit-bulls', but so what? - we're not debating pedigree, and by that same token lots of Rott-mixes are classified just the same as pure-breds). Of course, the figures aren't correlated to the total # of dogs of a particular type - but it's hard to argue with the raw #'s showing a very strong trend in the types of dogs that attack/kill humans.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttack/Fataldogattackhome.html


I asked my brother to refresh my memory about his good friend, Dominique, who was the guy I knew that was bitten badly - 3rd hand account, but a reliable source (to me) with no reason to lie about it. It was actually his girlfriend's family dog, which was kept as an indoor 'pet' (I know, they're not pets, blah, blah - but that's the reality of how many if not the majority of dogs are kept in this country). He was visiting for X-mas dinner & eating a plate of food while sitting on the hearth, and the dog was pestering him by nosing at his plate while he ate (unacceptable behavior, but the dog was simply being a pest & not 'visciously' aggressive). After pushing him away a couple of times, it snapped onto his face twice & laid him open from the top of his cheekbone to his chin. Was it precipitated by ignorance/negligence on the part of the owners and perhaps an improper/careless reaction from the 'victim'? Sure - but it sure as hell wasn't some chained-up grossly-mistreated curr being unduly provoked by someone blatantly taunting or abusing it.

I'm not at all saying that pit-bulls or Rotts or any other 'dangerous' breed are automatically 'bad' or 'evil'. I think that the vast majority that have good owners & proper treatment/training can be loyal, loving, trusted family-members, and I totally accept that the biggest factor in their propensity to attack is how they are raised, socialized & disciplined. BUT, I also think that without a proper upbringing they (dogs in general, larger/stronger dogs particularly, and a handful of breeds specifically) can be very much like having a loaded gun laying around. :shrug:

[Amber Lamps]

I completely agree that the dangers posed by potentially dangerous breeds (all of them, really) are greatly aggravated by the actions/neglect/failure to discipline by their human owners. BUT, I can't help to conclude that that for whatever combination of factors, there's simply no denying that a few breed 'types' are responsible for the vast majority of fatalities. I think it's reasonable to assume a similar correlation with cases of serious injury. Based on the raw fatality stat's, Pits and Rotts are by far the leading breeds in dog-attack deaths, alond with a few others (and yes, I know a lot of bully dogs that aren't APBTs get lumped together as 'pit-bulls', but so what? - we're not debating pedigree, and by that same token lots of Rott-mixes are classified just the same as pure-breds). Of course, the figures aren't correlated to the total # of dogs of a particular type - but it's hard to argue with the raw #'s showing a very strong trend in the types of dogs that attack/kill humans.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttack/Fataldogattackhome.html


I asked my brother to refresh my memory about his good friend, Dominique, who was the guy I knew that was bitten badly - 3rd hand account, but a reliable source (to me) with no reason to lie about it. It was actually his girlfriend's family dog, which was kept as an indoor 'pet' (I know, they're not pets, blah, blah - but that's the reality of how many if not the majority of dogs are kept in this country). He was visiting for X-mas dinner & eating a plate of food while sitting on the hearth, and the dog was pestering him by nosing at his plate while he ate (unacceptable behavior, but the dog was simply being a pest & not 'visciously' aggressive). After pushing him away a couple of times, it snapped onto his face twice & laid him open from the top of his cheekbone to his chin. Was it precipitated by ignorance/negligence on the part of the owners and perhaps an improper/careless reaction from the 'victim'? Sure - but it sure as hell wasn't some chained-up grossly-mistreated curr being unduly provoked by someone blatantly taunting or abusing it.

I'm not at all saying that pit-bulls or Rotts or any other 'dangerous' breed are automatically 'bad' or 'evil'. I think that the vast majority that have good owners & proper treatment/training can be loyal, loving, trusted family-members, and I totally accept that the biggest factor in their propensity to attack is how they are raised, socialized & disciplined. BUT, I also think that without a proper upbringing they (dogs in general, larger/stronger dogs particularly, and a handful of breeds specifically) can be very much like having a loaded gun laying around. :shrug:

Well put but I'm sure that you know that your numbers are suspect and your information is biased. :lol:

[MILK]

Rottweilers have the highest bite strength of any dog. Pits are high on the list too. So yes, if they bite they do damage. That certainly plays in to the statistics AND into incident reports.

If for example if you are bitten by a Poodle you won't be injured as badly, even if the dog bites all the time.. as in my moms poodle that bit me multiple times, or the choc lab down the street that attacked my Rottie twice, or the neighbor's daschund that tried to bite me twice, or my former employers toy poodle who bit numerous people, me included. NONE of those bites or attacks were ever reported because the damage was minimal.

If all dog bites were reported the statistics would show a vastily different result. AND we would be debating breed bans on Poodles right now, no doubt about it..

[Kaneman]

I completely agree that the dangers posed by potentially dangerous breeds (all of them, really) are greatly aggravated by the actions/neglect/failure to discipline by their human owners. BUT, I can't help to conclude that that for whatever combination of factors, there's simply no denying that a few breed 'types' are responsible for the vast majority of fatalities. I think it's reasonable to assume a similar correlation with cases of serious injury. Based on the raw fatality stat's, Pits and Rotts are by far the leading breeds in dog-attack deaths, alond with a few others (and yes, I know a lot of bully dogs that aren't APBTs get lumped together as 'pit-bulls', but so what? - we're not debating pedigree, and by that same token lots of Rott-mixes are classified just the same as pure-breds). Of course, the figures aren't correlated to the total # of dogs of a particular type - but it's hard to argue with the raw #'s showing a very strong trend in the types of dogs that attack/kill humans.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttack/Fataldogattackhome.html


I asked my brother to refresh my memory about his good friend, Dominique, who was the guy I knew that was bitten badly - 3rd hand account, but a reliable source (to me) with no reason to lie about it. It was actually his girlfriend's family dog, which was kept as an indoor 'pet' (I know, they're not pets, blah, blah - but that's the reality of how many if not the majority of dogs are kept in this country). He was visiting for X-mas dinner & eating a plate of food while sitting on the hearth, and the dog was pestering him by nosing at his plate while he ate (unacceptable behavior, but the dog was simply being a pest & not 'visciously' aggressive). After pushing him away a couple of times, it snapped onto his face twice & laid him open from the top of his cheekbone to his chin. Was it precipitated by ignorance/negligence on the part of the owners and perhaps an improper/careless reaction from the 'victim'? Sure - but it sure as hell wasn't some chained-up grossly-mistreated curr being unduly provoked by someone blatantly taunting or abusing it.

I'm not at all saying that pit-bulls or Rotts or any other 'dangerous' breed are automatically 'bad' or 'evil'. I think that the vast majority that have good owners & proper treatment/training can be loyal, loving, trusted family-members, and I totally accept that the biggest factor in their propensity to attack is how they are raised, socialized & disciplined. BUT, I also think that without a proper upbringing they (dogs in general, larger/stronger dogs particularly, and a handful of breeds specifically) can be very much like having a loaded gun laying around. :shrug:

You haven't been keeping up have you? :lol:

[z06boy]

I've owned two Rotties and several Pits that never bit anyone and own guns that have never shot anyone...wow what a boring life. :lol

Sucks being responsible.

I don't own Pits or Rotties currently...just a little Shiba Inu and he's just an early warning system...I've still got the guns. :dthumb:

[Amber Lamps]

Rottweilers have the highest bite strength of any dog. Pits are high on the list too. So yes, if they bite they do damage. That certainly plays in to the statistics AND into incident reports.

If for example if you are bitten by a Poodle you won't be injured as badly, even if the dog bites all the time.. as in my moms poodle that bit me multiple times, or the choc lab down the street that attacked my Rottie twice, or the neighbor's daschund that tried to bite me twice, or my former employers toy poodle who bit numerous people, me included. NONE of those bites or attacks were ever reported because the damage was minimal.

If all dog bites were reported the statistics would show a vastily different result. AND we would be debating breed bans on Poodles right now, no doubt about it..

Oh no....Chihuahuas, my friend! They are dogs from fucking HELL!!! I have never seen a more vicious or meaner breed of dog in my life!!!:lol:

I see your point but on the other hand almost everyone that has ever owned a hamster has been bitten at least once, would you like to consider a ban on those?:lol: Besides, I NEVER even once suggested that the dogs be banned, I think that they are of a more aggressive temperament than the average dog, like say a Golden Retriever, Kaneman does not agree. :lol:

[Amber Lamps]

I've owned two Rotties and several Pits that never bit anyone and own guns that have never shot anyone...wow what a boring life. :lol

Sucks being responsible.

I don't own Pits or Rotties currently...just a little Shiba Inu and he's just an early warning system...I've still got the guns. :dthumb:

Geesh, paranoid much? Just kidding!!!! No gun arguments for me for a while!!!:lol:

[z06boy]

Geesh, paranoid much? Just kidding!!!! No gun arguments for me for a while!!!:lol:

:lol:

[Kaneman]

Besides, I NEVER even once suggested that the dogs be banned, I think that they are of a more aggressive temperament than the average dog, like say a Golden Retriever, Kaneman does not agree. :lol:

I agree that dogs of the Molosser ancestry have special requirements and are not for the dog owner that doesn't want to invest the time and effort.

Mainly I just wanted to have a long debate with Tigger to see if he would "get his panties in a wad" as he is so often accused of and he did not. In fact, I thought he held his end of the debate very well.

[Kerry_129]

I've owned two Rotties and several Pits that never bit anyone and own guns that have never shot anyone...wow what a boring life. :lol
Sucks being responsible.


Damn - I was hoping someone would bite harder than that! :lol:


Kaneman - guilty as charged. I see what you're saying re: many pits/rotts 'trained to hate humans', and while I agree that it's part of the issue, my feeling is that it doesn't explain away the numbers being skewed so highly towards those two types in particular. Just an opinion that can't be proven/disproven by lies, statistics and more lies though. And I'd still be far more worried about dangers presented the 'scumbag'-owner element than any of their 'viscious' dogs.


One thing that jumped out at me doing a little reading though - supposedly 1/3 of homeowners' insurance claims result from dog-related claims? Wow - seems hard to believe it could be that high. Does your ins. company ask if you own dogs (or specific breeds) & jack your rates?

[MILK]

Damn - I was hoping someone would bite harder than that! :lol:


One thing that jumped out at me doing a little reading though - supposedly 1/3 of homeowners' insurance claims result from dog-related claims? Wow - seems hard to believe it could be that high. Does your ins. company ask if you own dogs (or specific breeds) & jack your rates?

Kerry my insurance company did a 'drive by' and asked that we sign a waiver on our Rotteweiler so we can't make claims on him. They didn't ask for a waiver on my two parrots though and they've bitten plenty of people! :lol:

[Amber Lamps]

I agree that dogs of the Molosser ancestry have special requirements and are not for the dog owner that doesn't want to invest the time and effort.

Mainly I just wanted to have a long debate with Tigger to see if he would "get his panties in a wad" as he is so often accused of and he did not. In fact, I thought he held his end of the debate very well.

Aw shucks! Twert nuthin'!!! Actually, I like long debates until the name calling starts...:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

Kerry my insurance company did a 'drive by' and asked that we sign a waiver on our Rotteweiler so we can't make claims on him. They didn't ask for a waiver on my two parrots though and they've bitten plenty of people! :lol:

RrrrrAAAAWWWWKKKkkk... Polly want a finger RRRAWWK TWEET WOOT!

[the chi]

*gasp* You guys are too funny! Tiggasponses and Tiggoints, those are worth remembering...

Kerry, in response to your question, every time I have gotten home insurance or renewed my policy they have gone through a list of dogs (pits, rotts, shepards, etc) and let me know that if I owned any of the above it would affect my insurance.

Milk, I cant remember where I read it, but I know I read somewhere that Poodles tend to be a VERY nippy and agreesive biting breed, especially the large ones, tho when properly trained make excellent pets. However, I am sure they dont even get an honorable mention since whos afraid of a Poodle?! Not a breed that typically inspires fear...:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

*gasp* You guys are too funny! Tiggasponses and Tiggoints, those are worth remembering...

Kerry, in response to your question, every time I have gotten home insurance or renewed my policy they have gone through a list of dogs (pits, rotts, shepards, etc) and let me know that if I owned any of the above it would affect my insurance.

Milk, I cant remember where I read it, but I know I read somewhere that Poodles tend to be a VERY nippy and agreesive biting breed, especially the large ones, tho when properly trained make excellent pets. However, I am sure they dont even get an honorable mention since whos afraid of a Poodle?! Not a breed that typically inspires fear...:lol:

Well they would if they started chewing baby's feet and tearing people's faces off!:lol:

[Ninjakel]

Our homeowners insurance here in Florida is well aware that we have an APBT and a Boxer. No special rider or upping the policy.

[Quick281]

Tigger, what ever happened to the tank pack sized dog you used to have in your avatar?

[askmrjesus]

Tigger, what ever happened to the tank pack sized dog you used to have in your avatar?

It was eaten by a Pit Bull, and he hasn't been the same since.

JC

[z06boy]

It was eaten by a Pit Bull, and he hasn't been the same since.

JC

It wasn't even a Pit, it was a mixed breed that they couldn't identify so they reported it as a Pit for statistical purposes.

[askmrjesus]

It wasn't even a Pit, it was a mixed breed that they couldn't identify so they reported it as a Pit for statistical purposes.

:lol:

JC

[Kaneman]

:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

Tigger, what ever happened to the tank pack sized dog you used to have in your avatar?

I ate it and since I'M a mixed breed they classified it as a pit bull attack!!!:lol:

Actually, I ws working 14 hr days and the dog was getting severe separation anxiety so I gave him to an old lady that I met. She has all the time in the world and takes him everywhere. I felt that it would be a better home for him.:idk: