Finland Makes Broadband a Legal Right

[Avatard]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/173691/Finland_Makes_Broadband_a_Legal_Right.html

The Finnish government has done what no other nation has; it has made broadband Internet access a guaranteed legal right of its citizens. According to Finnish news site YLE, The Ministry of Transport and Communications says everyone in the country will be entitled to a guaranteed 1 Mbit connection by next July. This is fascinating, but it's really only half the story.

The real news is that the country considers this just a preliminary stepping stone to a 100 Mbit service guarantee by the end of 2015. According to the story, "Some variation will be allowed, if connectivity can be arranged through mobile phone networks."

Granted, Finland's population is more like a very large city than a country as big as the U.S. There are 5.3 million people residing in Finland, mostly in the south. This would place the country about 30th in the ranking of world cities by population, but it still makes it bigger than any U.S. city save New York. Which begs the question - if Finland can do this, why can't more major U.S. cities?

[Dave]

because we are already taxed to death.


NEXT

[Trip]

It would be nice and I have heard of some cities offering hot spots for wifi. That's the direction to go in, a good wifi network.

It's not worth it to do it in rural areas like Finland has though.

[Sean]

So basically porn is now a guaranteed right there. Yeah, that's what we need to spend tax dollars on.

[goof2]

When is the government going to guarantee me a new free computer to go with my free internet? Mine is getting dusty.

[shmike]

When is the government going to guarantee me a new free computer to go with my free internet? Mine is getting dusty.

For now, that is still the job of a private company. http://www.bluehippo.com/

You can bitch about it on your free gubment cell phone though.
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/Home.aspx

[Papa_Complex]

For now, that is still the job of a private company. http://www.bluehippo.com/

You can bitch about it on your free gubment cell phone though.
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/Home.aspx

Have you ever looked at those Blue Hippo "deals"? By the time that you're done, you've paid 3x what the computer was worth.

[shmike]

Have you ever looked at those Blue Hippo "deals"? By the time that you're done, you've paid 3x what the computer was worth.

Never looked. To be honest I'd think 3x is being generous.

When I Googled their name to get the link, 90% of all references were "beware of scam" and lawsuit links.

[goof2]

I could buy one, but why do that? The government should do everything for me, for free. Computers, internet, cell phone, HDTV with the cable service to go with it. The government should provide my every need and desire.

I know I could go down to my local library and use their government funded computers and internet, but that sounds a lot like work. We, the American people, are apparently a bunch of petulant children the government must coddle and cater to.

[Papa_Complex]

I could buy one, but why do that? The government should do everything for me, for free. Computers, internet, cell phone, HDTV with the cable service to go with it. The government should provide my every need and desire.

I know I could go down to my local library and use their government funded computers and internet, but that sounds a lot like work. We, the American people, are apparently a bunch of petulant children the government must coddle and cater to.

Ummmmm..... you know that this was Finland, right?

[goof2]

Ummmmm..... you know that this was Finland, right?

Yes, but the original post asked why major US cities aren't doing this.

[Smittie61984]

I know I could go down to my local library and use their government funded computers and internet, but that sounds a lot like work.

They get suspicious everytime I break out hte lube.

[Kaneman]

I like it. High speed connections are becoming as much as part of infrastructure as other utilities, so its a good step for them.

We're not going to be able to pull anything like that off here though, we're too (insert negative adjective here)

[Avatard]

:)

[Smittie61984]

I like it. High speed connections are becoming as much as part of infrastructure as other utilities, so its a good step for them.


And how long until the government decides to regulate their internet??? After all you have to be careful what you broadcast over the "Public Airwaves". The Fairness Doctrine would have a whole new power.

[goof2]

I like it. High speed connections are becoming as much as part of infrastructure as other utilities, so its a good step for them.

We're not going to be able to pull anything like that off here though, we're too (insert negative adjective here)

You have to pay for other utilities.:skep:

[Sean]

You have to pay for other utilities.:skep:

Don't spoil their fun with logic.

[Kaneman]

And how long until the government decides to regulate their internet??? After all you have to be careful what you broadcast over the "Public Airwaves". The Fairness Doctrine would have a whole new power.

I'm sure its all part of the larger plan, no doubt. Our private internet companies have been trying to find ways to regulate for a while now

My point was I'd like to see us do something similar here but I know it'll never happen. Even the city-wide wifi that has been proposed here and there is a great idea. Being free isn't the main point to me, its making it accessible to everyone. There are still many areas in the U.S. where you can't get high speed without a satellite and so on
.

[Smittie61984]

There are still many areas in the U.S. where you can't get high speed without a satellite and so on
.

So I should have to pay taxes for wifi because someone decided to live out in the middle of fucking nowhere?

Now a friend of mine did mention this a while back but he said he plans to go with some wifi like company here in Atlanta that has basically a wifi spot in the Metro Atlanta area that will offer tv, phone, and internet all together. I'll ask him about it but sounds like private companies are already working on a solution.

[Kaneman]

So I should have to pay taxes for wifi because someone decided to live out in the middle of fucking nowhere?

Now a friend of mine did mention this a while back but he said he plans to go with some wifi like company here in Atlanta that has basically a wifi spot in the Metro Atlanta area that will offer tv, phone, and internet all together. I'll ask him about it but sounds like private companies are already working on a solution.

Compared to the other shit your taxes already cover I'd say this isn't even on your list of worries. At least this would be beneficial to the populace.

[Sean]

There are still many areas in the U.S. where you can't get high speed without a satellite and so on
.

Poor guys, having to have a different kind of high-speed connection than the rest of us.

[Kaneman]

Poor guys, having to have a different kind of high-speed connection than the rest of us.

Its a much more expensive connection.

[Smittie61984]

Compared to the other shit your taxes already cover I'd say this isn't even on your list of worries. At least this would be beneficial to the populace.

Yes. It'll be real beneficial when they regulate the internet in the "public's interest". Let's write something anti-Democrat or anti-Republican or oppose something like healthcare reform. You don't believe the government is going to use the same excuse they used before under the fairness doctrine and "public airwaves" of the public radio to regulate debate?

People want the interwebz then they can go here...
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requesttype=NEWREQUEST&coveragetype=broadband

Or you can try AT&T, Sprint, Metro PCS, T-mobile, and the other billion phone companies that offer wireless internet.

Infact I bet the people who want this probably have an I-phone or Blackberry anyways. People at my work making $10 an hour have phones with internet so I'm guessing it's not a real problem. Those who want it have to only want it because it will feel like it's free to them.

[Kaneman]

The internet is going to be regulated anyway, its already in the works...that'll happen whether or not the government pushes to offer high speed landline access to rural areas.

Your liberty or death avatar? We lost liberty long, long ago.

[Smittie61984]

The internet is going to be regulated anyway, its already in the works...that'll happen whether or not the government pushes to offer high speed landline access to rural areas.

Your liberty or death avatar? We lost liberty long, long ago.

I agree on both counts. But I think a government run wifi will just speed the process up. At least with private internet companies the government will have to fight companies in court and so on to get the info or regulate it. A government ran wifi program will only need one government hack to regulate the content.

[Sean]

Its a much more expensive connection.

Living in the city instead of the country is pretty expensive too.

[goof2]

Compared to the other shit your taxes already cover I'd say this isn't even on your list of worries. At least this would be beneficial to the populace.

We already have to pay for a bunch of ridiculous shit so what is one more thing?

Taxpayer funded blowjobs "would be beneficial to the populace" but I still don't want to see it happen. Beneficial and stupid are not mutually exclusive.

[goof2]

Its a much more expensive connection.

Tough shit. I didn't make them move to the sticks, why should I have to subsidize their decision?

[Smittie61984]

Living in the city instead of the country is pretty expensive too.

Million dollar high rise apartments should be a right for all.

[Sean]

Hot tubs are beneficial and Iceland has public tubs. We should provide hot tubs for every human within our borders.

Know what people use broadband for? Porn. Email, Wikipedia, and news sites all work perfectly fine on a 56k connection.

[Smittie61984]

Know what people use broadband for? Porn. Email, Wikipedia, and news sites all work perfectly fine on a 56k connection.

Ever tried to watch porn on a 56k? It leads to suicide

[101lifts2]

Compared to the other shit your taxes already cover I'd say this isn't even on your list of worries. At least this would be beneficial to the populace.

Yeah just like everything else. I can see how the convo. went down..

Politician 1: "Fuck, the people are not too happy now about the 70% tax rate. We need to give them someone else if we are gonna ask for 71%.."
Politician 2: "I got it...we can give them unlimited WiFi. It will cost about 200 bucks a person a year, which will be easily covered in the additional 1%. This will shut these peasants up for at least a few years."
Politician 1: "Joonas..you are so smarty."

[101lifts2]

Ever tried to watch porn on a 56k? It leads to suicide

Always hated that.....

[Smittie61984]

Always hated that.....

Fuck man. I remember the days where you'd wait for a single picture and halfway through someone calls and fucks it up. But at 13 you had no choice.

My main problem with this whole thing is how is it a "right"? It'd be one thing if a city/state worked with a private company or various companies to bring cheap or free wireless internet. It's another thing to be a right forced on those who don't even use the internet and will never hear about this because htey don't have the internet.

[Papa_Complex]

Fuck man. I remember the days where you'd wait for a single picture and halfway through someone calls and fucks it up. But at 13 you had no choice.

My main problem with this whole thing is how is it a "right"? It'd be one thing if a city/state worked with a private company or various companies to bring cheap or free wireless internet. It's another thing to be a right forced on those who don't even use the internet and will never hear about this because htey don't have the internet.

Depends on how the service is delivered. It could be simply by requiring that carriers seeking licensing for the more profitable urban areas also must provide service to specific less profitable regions.

[Smittie61984]

Depends on how the service is delivered. It could be simply by requiring that carriers seeking licensing for the more profitable urban areas also must provide service to specific less profitable regions.

Well there is someting going on in Atlanta along the same lines...
http://www.fastpass.net/index.php

I haven't read too much up on it but I still think the cellphone providers are doing a damn good job. Infact it drives me nuts at work because half hte people I work with spend their entire day on their internet phone and keep showing me dumb shit.

I'd just prefer no government involvement since I don't feel that the internet is a basic human right.

[Kaneman]

My thing is, everyday I sit and either laugh or become nauseated at how the government spends taxpayer money. I laugh at the bridge to nowhere and I'm appalled by the war in Iraq, the enforcement of drug and prostitution laws, speed traps, Air Force One flyovers...and well NFL will be on soon so I don't have time to cover it all, but you get the drift. Our Federal and State governments burn through billions of dollars of our hard-earned cash every week. The spending is completely reckless, without thought or guidance. These motherfuckers are flying in private jets with their families all over the country, and don't buy the bullshit that its business related. There is a serious disconnection with reality, and no concept of how to save or spend money.

All Government is like an 8 year old that wins the lottery. It doesn't matter who you vote into office, whether your a Republican, Democrat or Independent. These are the facts of life here, its never going to get better and will continue to get more and more absurd on a daily basis. In the meantime our health care system is in disarray, our public education system is a complete fucking joke, in many places public transportation is non-existent, police depts are still full of abuse and corruption, 911 is bogged down, prisons are literally overflowing, people who represent no danger to the public are being locked up while dangerous rapists and pedophiles are going free. The majority (which is relevant since we're a supposed democracy) is far too busy celebrity worshiping to give a flying fuck other than an occasional grumble at the water cooler. Shit is seriously fucked up. And we're complaining about broadband internet? Really?

So, if the govt was to come out and say, "hey, we're going to use taxpayer money to expand the coverage of high speed internet into rural areas of America and treat it like a utility" then I don't have a problem with that. Because unlike most govt spending this is something Americans can benefit from.

I always hear the argument that goes like "well they made the choice to do this or that and my tax payer dollars shouldn't cover them so fuck 'em" whenever a subject like this comes up, or the "OMG that's socialism" and it makes me laugh because the sole purpose of tax money is to wipe a politicians ass and keep his bedroom fire going at night. Nothing good is being done with your money as it is...so on the off chance that the Government is going to do something to improve or advance society we should be rejoicing.

I completely understand that what the government funds the government controls. I understand internet provided by the government will be regulated by the government and eventually when you google "Kent State" you'll get a Wikipedia page that doesn't even mention the massacre there. I just don't see a big difference between that and where we're already headed. Is State-controlled media any worse than media that panders to the political left or right? None of it is non-biased, much of it is outright drama-infused fabrication, and very little is objective reporting. In other words, we don't get the whole story either way.

Would a society that uses tax payer money to improve quality of life and to guarantee health care and basic utilities really be so fucking horrible? There is PLENTY of money to do it without any tax increases is we could only funnel our money where it needs to go.

Its no more of a pipe-dream than the America many still this we live in, you know, that whole "land of the free home of the brave" thing.

[goof2]

My thing is, everyday I sit and either laugh or become nauseated at how the government spends taxpayer money. I laugh at the bridge to nowhere and I'm appalled by the war in Iraq, the enforcement of drug and prostitution laws, speed traps, Air Force One flyovers...and well NFL will be on soon so I don't have time to cover it all, but you get the drift. Our Federal and State governments burn through billions of dollars of our hard-earned cash every week. The spending is completely reckless, without thought or guidance. These motherfuckers are flying in private jets with their families all over the country, and don't buy the bullshit that its business related. There is a serious disconnection with reality, and no concept of how to save or spend money.

All Government is like an 8 year old that wins the lottery. It doesn't matter who you vote into office, whether your a Republican, Democrat or Independent. These are the facts of life here, its never going to get better and will continue to get more and more absurd on a daily basis. In the meantime our health care system is in disarray, our public education system is a complete fucking joke, in many places public transportation is non-existent, police depts are still full of abuse and corruption, 911 is bogged down, prisons are literally overflowing, people who represent no danger to the public are being locked up while dangerous rapists and pedophiles are going free. The majority (which is relevant since we're a supposed democracy) is far too busy celebrity worshiping to give a flying fuck other than an occasional grumble at the water cooler. Shit is seriously fucked up. And we're complaining about broadband internet? Really?

So, if the govt was to come out and say, "hey, we're going to use taxpayer money to expand the coverage of high speed internet into rural areas of America and treat it like a utility" then I don't have a problem with that. Because unlike most govt spending this is something Americans can benefit from.

I always hear the argument that goes like "well they made the choice to do this or that and my tax payer dollars shouldn't cover them so fuck 'em" whenever a subject like this comes up, or the "OMG that's socialism" and it makes me laugh because the sole purpose of tax money is to wipe a politicians ass and keep his bedroom fire going at night. Nothing good is being done with your money as it is...so on the off chance that the Government is going to do something to improve or advance society we should be rejoicing.

I completely understand that what the government funds the government controls. I understand internet provided by the government will be regulated by the government and eventually when you google "Kent State" you'll get a Wikipedia page that doesn't even mention the massacre there. I just don't see a big difference between that and where we're already headed. Is State-controlled media any worse than media that panders to the political left or right? None of it is non-biased, much of it is outright drama-infused fabrication, and very little is objective reporting. In other words, we don't get the whole story either way.

Would a society that uses tax payer money to improve quality of life and to guarantee health care and basic utilities really be so fucking horrible? There is PLENTY of money to do it without any tax increases is we could only funnel our money where it needs to go.

Its no more of a pipe-dream than the America many still this we live in, you know, that whole "land of the free home of the brave" thing.

I understand what you are saying, but your two primary point are opposed to each other. You say that we should do things that improve quality of life, and we can afford to do these things if the government puts tax money where it actually needs to go. In the same post you are disgusted with the blatant waste that the government is doing nothing about.

In my view the government should only be doing things they have to do. Having them spend more money for pet programs like this is far from that mission. "Land of the free and home of the brave" is nice in concept, but does that still apply when half the country is apparently deathly afraid of seeing Janet Jackson's nipple or hearing "fuck" on TV? Ultimately how free and brave are we when we demand that our government take care of everything and regulate the shit out of it for us?

[Kaneman]

I understand what you are saying, but your two primary point are opposed to each other. You say that we should do things that improve quality of life, and we can afford to do these things if the government puts tax money where it actually needs to go. In the same post you are disgusted with the blatant waste that the government is doing nothing about.

In my view the government should only be doing things they have to do. Having them spend more money for pet programs like this is far from that mission. "Land of the free and home of the brave" is nice in concept, but does that still apply when half the country is apparently deathly afraid of seeing Janet Jackson's nipple or hearing "fuck" on TV? Ultimately how free and brave are we when we demand that our government take care of everything and regulate the shit out of it for us?

We're not free and brave, that was my point. That's specifically why I made the point that the majority of the population is so wrapped up in pop culture that it doesn't really matter what people who still have some sense left think because they're the minority.

We're regulated and micromanaged to the point that its almost laughable how far we've gone to becoming a nation who doesn't even remember what the word "adult" means. The laws in this country are so oppressing and absurd you have to wonder if you're really living in the country that flies the stars and stripes. I am in no way at all a fan of the federal government or the increasing interference in our everyday lives.

Really, what I was saying was that because the majority of this country has become so....fuck I don't even know what word to use besides "sheeple", that these main points are never going to change SO, if you the very small chance you see the govt do something, ANYTHING that improves people's lives then fuck...you might as well stand up and cheer.

We're wrapped up in two wars that everyone knows aren't going to end well. Worse in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Your talking about TRILLIONS....fucking trillions of dollars dude...complete shit down the fucking toilet. No, even worse than that...we spent all that money to make ourselves look ignorant and week to the rest of the world once again. So to complain about something like government funded expansion of broadband internet seems silly to me.

[goof2]

We're not free and brave, that was my point. That's specifically why I made the point that the majority of the population is so wrapped up in pop culture that it doesn't really matter what people who still have some sense left think because they're the minority.

We're regulated and micromanaged to the point that its almost laughable how far we've gone to becoming a nation who doesn't even remember what the word "adult" means. The laws in this country are so oppressing and absurd you have to wonder if you're really living in the country that flies the stars and stripes. I am in no way at all a fan of the federal government or the increasing interference in our everyday lives.

Really, what I was saying was that because the majority of this country has become so....fuck I don't even know what word to use besides "sheeple", that these main points are never going to change SO, if you the very small chance you see the govt do something, ANYTHING that improves people's lives then fuck...you might as well stand up and cheer.

We're wrapped up in two wars that everyone knows aren't going to end well. Worse in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Your talking about TRILLIONS....fucking trillions of dollars dude...complete shit down the fucking toilet. No, even worse than that...we spent all that money to make ourselves look ignorant and week to the rest of the world once again. So to complain about something like government funded expansion of broadband internet seems silly to me.

Most everything the government does started as a way to "improve people's lives". In my view that is a large part of the problem. The federal government should be doing the things that are absolutely necessary and state governments cannot handle. It is the federal government's decision to overreach by getting in to the "improve people's lives" business that has contributed significantly to train wreck it currently is.

[101lifts2]

We're not free and brave, that was my point. That's specifically why I made the point that the majority of the population is so wrapped up in pop culture that it doesn't really matter what people who still have some sense left think because they're the minority.

We're regulated and micromanaged to the point that its almost laughable how far we've gone to becoming a nation who doesn't even remember what the word "adult" means. The laws in this country are so oppressing and absurd you have to wonder if you're really living in the country that flies the stars and stripes. I am in no way at all a fan of the federal government or the increasing interference in our everyday lives.

Really, what I was saying was that because the majority of this country has become so....fuck I don't even know what word to use besides "sheeple", that these main points are never going to change SO, if you the very small chance you see the govt do something, ANYTHING that improves people's lives then fuck...you might as well stand up and cheer.

We're wrapped up in two wars that everyone knows aren't going to end well. Worse in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Your talking about TRILLIONS....fucking trillions of dollars dude...complete shit down the fucking toilet. No, even worse than that...we spent all that money to make ourselves look ignorant and week to the rest of the world once again. So to complain about something like government funded expansion of broadband internet seems silly to me.

The Internet is the absolute WORST thing you would want any government to control. Every link, password, ID, bank account can be tapped into (not like they cannot do that now, but I'm assuming it is much harder).

Verizon has an aircard as with Sprint for 59.99 a month. Do you think if the government takes this over it is going to be free to you? No, you'll pay more in taxes than 60 bucks a month.

Finland can do what it wants, but once you create a dependant state, it is hard for people to go back.

[Kaneman]

Most everything the government does started as a way to "improve people's lives". In my view that is a large part of the problem. The federal government should be doing the things that are absolutely necessary and state governments cannot handle. It is the federal government's decision to overreach by getting in to the "improve people's lives" business that has contributed significantly to train wreck it currently is.

I completely agree with that dude, no question, but that point has been irrelevant for quite some time now. What the government should and should not be doing in order for us to be a truly free nation doesn't matter, because that's not the way it is. We live in a nanny state on its way to being a police state. You think the Federal Government is going to give rights back that have been taken away? Not likely, once a government takes rights away you'll never see them again outside of a massive revolution or such event...and lets face it, we're just too fat and and lazy for anything close to that. More than that, we're easily brainwashed by Dobbs, O'Reilly, Olberman, Beck and so on...

And because the majority of us are so stupid, ignorant, and just don't think or care about the situation its only going to get worse no matter what those of us who do care, and those of us that do value freedom do.

The Internet is the absolute WORST thing you would want any government to control. Every link, password, ID, bank account can be tapped into (not like they cannot do that now, but I'm assuming it is much harder).

Verizon has an aircard as with Sprint for 59.99 a month. Do you think if the government takes this over it is going to be free to you? No, you'll pay more in taxes than 60 bucks a month.

Finland can do what it wants, but once you create a dependant state, it is hard for people to go back.

Again, completely agree with all that too. The internet is the worse thing you'd want the government to control...and they most likely already do to some degree. Certainly there are Bills and proposals to increase monitoring which obviously leads to control.

Once you create a dependent state it is not only hard to go back...but next to impossible. But guess what dude, we're already a dependent state. Fuck man, we might as well get some of the benefits of it to go along with the control...such as healthcare for everyone and, say, fuck it why not...broadband too.

[goof2]

I completely agree with that dude, no question, but that point has been irrelevant for quite some time now. What the government should and should not be doing in order for us to be a truly free nation doesn't matter, because that's not the way it is. We live in a nanny state on its way to being a police state. You think the Federal Government is going to give rights back that have been taken away? Not likely, once a government takes rights away you'll never see them again outside of a massive revolution or such event...and lets face it, we're just too fat and and lazy for anything close to that. More than that, we're easily brainwashed by Dobbs, O'Reilly, Olberman, Beck and so on...

And because the majority of us are so stupid, ignorant, and just don't think or care about the situation its only going to get worse no matter what those of us who do care, and those of us that do value freedom do.



Again, completely agree with all that too. The internet is the worse thing you'd want the government to control...and they most likely already do to some degree. Certainly there are Bills and proposals to increase monitoring which obviously leads to control.

Once you create a dependent state it is not only hard to go back...but next to impossible. But guess what dude, we're already a dependent state. Fuck man, we might as well get some of the benefits of it to go along with the control...such as healthcare for everyone and, say, fuck it why not...broadband too.

I understand what you are saying but disagree with your ultimate conclusion. The more people who become dependent on the government (who does nothing to make money), the fewer people there are to support the government. A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people is a bad idea. Doing it so the system can continually increase the "gifts" it gives to another expanding group of people is ultimately unsustainable.

I am also not willing to accept "they are already doing things like this" as justification for doing something stupid.

[Kaneman]

I understand what you are saying but disagree with your ultimate conclusion. The more people who become dependent on the government (who does nothing to make money), the fewer people there are to support the government. A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people is a bad idea. Doing it so the system can continually increase the "gifts" it gives to another expanding group of people is ultimately unsustainable.

I am also not willing to accept "they are already doing things like this" as justification for doing something stupid.

A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people? I'm not quite understanding the point you're making here. How is the government shrinking?

Or are you referring to people that actually pay taxes as the shrinking group of people? And the other expanding group of people are those who are dependent on the government?

[Sean]

There is a serious disconnection with reality, and no concept of how to save or spend money.


Well then the obvious solution is to spend even more money and give the government even more power?

Backwards, man.

[Kaneman]

Well then the obvious solution is to spend even more money and give the government even more power?

Backwards, man.

There is no solution. Its like trying to stop a turd that you just know is going to clog up the toilet after its already halfway down and you're sporting good water pressure.

In other, less disgusting words, we're fucked. So bring on the health care, bring on the free internetz, and lets get some perks before we go from "granite to dirt"

[goof2]

A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people? I'm not quite understanding the point you're making here. How is the government shrinking?

Or are you referring to people that actually pay taxes as the shrinking group of people? And the other expanding group of people are those who are dependent on the government?

Exactly. The government is not self sustaining. Anything it gives out to the expanding group of those dependent on government has to come from the shrinking group of people who pay taxes. Next year the government projects it will require over 3.5 trillion dollars. As more and more government programs are added that number will only increase over time. The government is becoming dependent on a shrinking group of people to get that money. They are making up the shortfall by taking out debt that, continuing in the direction we have been going, we will be unable to repay. This situation cannot continue indefinitely. Adding more unnecessary programs doesn't help.

[Sean]

There is no solution. Its like trying to stop a turd that you just know is going to clog up the toilet after its already halfway down and you're sporting good water pressure.

In other, less disgusting words, we're fucked. So bring on the health care, bring on the free internetz, and lets get some perks before we go from "granite to dirt"

Yeah, the situation sucks, so let's make it worse for everyone. Absolutely brilliant.

[Kaneman]

Exactly. The government is not self sustaining. Anything it gives out to the expanding group of those dependent on government has to come from the shrinking group of people who pay taxes. Next year the government projects it will require over 3.5 trillion dollars. As more and more government programs are added that number will only increase over time. The government is becoming dependent on a shrinking group of people to get that money. They are making up the shortfall by taking out debt that, continuing in the direction we have been going, we will be unable to repay. This situation cannot continue indefinitely. Adding more unnecessary programs doesn't help.

We're pretty much agreeing on everything said here I think then. The big difference is that you and Sean still have hope for America to improve, and I just don't.

I'm not even saying there is some Govt conspiracy going on to wield ultimate power, its pretty obvious that the people asked for the govt to be this involved in our day to day lives.

While it seems silly, the Janet Jackson nipple reference made earlier is a perfect illustration of everything wrong in this country.

Yeah, the situation sucks, so let's make it worse for everyone. Absolutely brilliant.

lol, well I don't get paid to be brilliant or run the government first of all so that's a moot point. Secondly, broadband for everyone isn't even a drop in the bucket dude. Completely insignificant compared to what's going on in the government and on the streets.

[goof2]

We're pretty much agreeing on everything said here I think then. The big difference is that you and Sean still have hope for America to improve, and I just don't.

I'm not even saying there is some Govt conspiracy going on to wield ultimate power, its pretty obvious that the people asked for the govt to be this involved in our day to day lives.

While it seems silly, the Janet Jackson nipple reference made earlier is a perfect illustration of everything wrong in this country.



lol, well I don't get paid to be brilliant or run the government first of all so that's a moot point. Secondly, broadband for everyone isn't even a drop in the bucket dude. Completely insignificant compared to what's going on in the government and on the streets.

I know we are agreeing on a lot. The only real disagreement is what to do about it. I don't think the solution for being driven in to the ground is to drive faster.

The direction things have been going and continue to go I am becoming more convinced that we will have another war to fight in the future. This war will be over America giving its creditors the finger and telling them to fuck off. At the rate we are going I don't think that future is very far off.

[Smittie61984]

Worse in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Your talking about TRILLIONS....fucking trillions of dollars dude...complete shit down the fucking toilet.

From what I remember that in the two wars and in 8 years we've spent roughly 600billion on (regardless of the view of the war) a legitimate function of the government (especially the federal government). Which is chump change compared to what President Obama has done in 8 months.

Here is another problem with government funded wifi IMO. Today I saw a billboard for a 4g network from Comcast (cable company). I've heard of Verizon's 3g and stuff like that being the fastest (from their commercials). I have no clue what the "G"s really mean but I assume more Gs is better. I'm guessing 5-10years ago 1G networks would be insane if it even existed. With government ran Wifi why are companies like Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, etc going to even bother developing new software for better mobile internet knowing they are no competition for free (or free feeling) internet paid by the taxpayers?

Plus I just don't like the government's finger so close to our communications. I don't like how our government funds peices of shits who won't get a job and do nothing but smoke and fuck all day and make more little government dependents. But as of now I can bitch about it. Wait till some government POS gets a hold on this forum right here and sees Anti-Democrat or Anti-Republican talk. They'd shut this place down quick as shit.

[Kaneman]

You're right Smittie, looks like both wars are coming to a total of just under one trillion, not trillions like I stated, my bad. Either way, I'm not an anti-war kinda guy necessarily...I love a good slaughter...I'm just an anti-stop fucking up my tax dollars guy.

I also agree with the rest of your previous post.

[Smittie61984]

I found out what my buddy was talking about. $50 a month unlimited phone, internet, tv, etc.

http://www.clear.com/index/coverage