canada: bike owner charged after loaning out bike

[RACER X]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/2009/10/27/11546411.html

News
Man charged over lending motorcycle to friend in fatal crash
By TONY BLAIS, COURT BUREAU


Police investigate a fatal July 9 motorcycle crash that killed Joseph Stelter. (KEN ARMSTRONG/Sun file) An Edmonton man has been charged under the Traffic Safety Act after he lent his motorcycle to a friend who died after crashing into cars in a parking lot.

Graham William Turner, 21, appeared in court Monday facing two counts of failing to properly supervise a motorcycle driven by someone with the wrong class of licence.

Turner is slated to be back in court on Dec. 7.

He was charged as a result of Joseph Stelter, 23, dying after the motorcycle he was riding smashed into parked cars in a parking lot on July 9 about 8 p.m.

Police said Stelter lost control of the borrowed motorcycle and collided with the parked cars in a parking lot of a condo complex at 7335 South Terwillegar Dr.

City police traffic section Sgt. Jerry Sobchyshyn said at the time that speed and lack of experience were factors, noting the rider peeled down a lane in the parking lot fast enough to leave a long skid mark, but he couldn’t stop.

Witnesses said the bike slid on its side as it smashed into the rear of a parked car at the end of the lane and Stelter was left wedged under the car. Bystanders had to lift the car off of Stelter.

He was transported to hospital by Stars air ambulance and pronounced dead the following day. The cause of death was blunt cranial trauma.

At the time, city police traffic section Sgt. Gary Lamont also said it appeared driver inexperience was a factor.

“Experience is crucial for the safe operation of any motor vehicle, but motorcyclists are far more vulnerable to serious injury when something goes wrong,” said Lamont.

tony.blais@sunmedia.ca

[Trip]

hurray for no self responsibility!

[Kaneman]

Unreal.

[CrazyKell]

Weird and fucked up.

In BC, where I got my license, when you had your "beginner" license you had to be supervised at all times by someone else who held an M license (or Class 6 as it is there). :scratch: They could be following you in a car, on a bike, etc. Bit of a strange system.

[z06boy]

That really sux but I guess 'if that's the law' he should have known. :idk:

The guy riding the bike didn't have the proper license to ride it. I didn't say I agree but that's evidently the way it is.

Several years ago I was out one night... in a 1995 Vette that I owned. I got hammered.

The guy that I was hanging out with that night doesn't normally drink...but he did have a drink that night but only one or two.

I gave him the keys...I passed out in the passenger seat. When I woke up there was a NC State Trooper in my Vette starting it up !!! :whatwhat:

What had happened was...we had come up on a traffic check and they smelled alcohol on him and pulled him out of the car and was parking my car on the side of the road.

When I woke up I asked the officer what he was doing and told him this was MY car.

Well he said "oh it's your car(?)...then you're going to jail too for aiding and abetting a DWI !!!! " :whosr:

They took both of us downtown but luckily my friend passed the breathalyzer and we were both turned loose.

Crazy story but true.

We had to get our own way back to my car which was several miles away...what a trip. :wtfru:

[Dave]

hurray for no self responsibility!

seriously. Lets charge the manufacturer too for making such a dangerous contraption. we wouldnt want people to hurt themselves

[Particle Man]

Great - CA has spread north.

[pauldun170]

Seems to me they had a big case of "Well we gotta charge someone with something?!" syndrome.

[Rider]

Reason #683 why you should never loan your bike to anyone.

[Kaneman]

seriously. Lets charge the manufacturer too for making such a dangerous contraption. we wouldnt want people to hurt themselves

Its coming, and probably not too far off.

[z06boy]

seriously. Lets charge the manufacturer too for making such a dangerous contraption. we wouldnt want people to hurt themselves

Well there was a case this morning on the news about some kid dying from getting hit with a baseball (I think) and the parents were suing "Louisville Slugger" for making the aluminum bat !!!! WTF ???????

[goof2]

That really sux but I guess 'if that's the law' he should have known. :idk:

The guy riding the bike didn't have the proper license to ride it. I didn't say I agree but that's evidently the way it is.

Several years ago I was out one night... in a 1995 Vette that I owned. I got hammered.

The guy that I was hanging out with that night doesn't normally drink...but he did have a drink that night but only one or two.

I gave him the keys...I passed out in the passenger seat. When I woke up there was a NC State Trooper in my Vette starting it up !!! :whatwhat:

What had happened was...we had come up on a traffic check and they smelled alcohol on him and pulled him out of the car and was parking my car on the side of the road.

When I woke up I asked the officer what he was doing and told him this was MY car.

Well he said "oh it's your car(?)...then you're going to jail too for aiding and abetting a DWI !!!! " :whosr:

They took both of us downtown but luckily my friend passed the breathalyzer and we were both turned loose.

Crazy story but true.

We had to get our own way back to my car which was several miles away...what a trip. :wtfru:

You are lucky. If that happened here your friend most likely would have been charged with impaired driving or whatever they call it when you are under .08 BAC but they still want to fuck with you. If the cops here take the time to bring you to get breathalyzed you are probably getting arrested for something unless the meter shows .00.

[karl_1052]

Weird and fucked up.

In BC, where I got my license, when you had your "beginner" license you had to be supervised at all times by someone else who held an M license (or Class 6 as it is there). :scratch: They could be following you in a car, on a bike, etc. Bit of a strange system.

they have rthe same system in queerbec too, but the supervisor has to follow on another bike.

There is a similar law to the original posting, and I agree with it. It is to stop dumbasses from lending their bikes to even bigger dumbasses who don't know how to ride, and have no business on a motorcycle.
It doesn't happen now, but when I was in my early 20s, everybody and their dog wanted to try out my GSXR1100. That law gave me an excuse to say no effin way.

You are lucky. If that happened here your friend most likely would have been charged with impaired driving or whatever they call it when you are under .08 BAC but they still want to fuck with you. If the cops here take the time to bring you to get breathalyzed you are probably getting arrested for something unless the meter shows .00.

Here the legal limit is 0.08, but they can charge you at 0.05. More political BS

[goof2]

Here the legal limit is 0.08, but they can charge you at 0.05. More political BS

Here they can charge you for anything, but there was one cop who, if my memory is correct, arrested people for as low as .02. Sure, the person arrested will probably beat the charge but they will have spent money on a lawyer and time in court.

[pdog]

I don't see what the problem is here. It's illegal to let someone without a driver's license drive your car. The same is true of motorcycles. Why shouldn't he be charged with it?

[shmike]

I don't see what the problem is here. It's illegal to let someone without a driver's license drive your car. The same is true of motorcycles. Why shouldn't he be charged with it?

It is?

I've never heard of that.

Do you have a statute to go along with that claim?

[Tmall]

Sure, accomplice to breaking the law..

There doesn't need to be a law that says, "you cannot give somebody your gun to commit murder". Its a given that if you assist in breaking the law in any way, you're an accomplice.

[Papa_Complex]

Seems to me they had a big case of "Well we gotta charge someone with something?!" syndrome.

You're very likely right there. It's probably response to outrage or, as is unfortunately quite common these days, in order to avoid possible outrage. I couldn't count how many people I've known over the years, who borrowed bikes so that they could LEARN how to ride.

It's not illegal to operate a vehicle without a license on private property, if you either own the property or have the owner's permission to do so. There are some exceptions to this, but for the most part my statement is true.

[Tmall]

I think that once its registered, you're subject to all laws.

I've know ppl who've been charged with dui for sitting in there car drunk, in their driveway and listening to music.

And I know ppl who've been charged for no helmet, even though they were on private property.

[Papa_Complex]

Here the legal limit is 0.08, but they can charge you at 0.05. More political BS

Close, but not quite. Up here, under graduated licensing, you are limited to zero BAC until you get your full license (minimum 20 months with G2/M2 license before graduating to full M or G).

With a full G or M, if you blow in the 'warn range (about 0.05 and below 0.08 BAC; well actually 0.10, because that's what the breathalizers are calibrated to) then they will take your car and license for 3 days, leaving you at the roadside. You will never see a court. You will never be able to dispute the suspension or seizure of your vehicle. If they catch you again, then the same will happen for 7 days, then 30 days if it happens again.

There is no charge but there is an administrative suspension attached to your record, with nothing that you can do about it. Guilty, without a trial.

I think that once its registered, you're subject to all laws.

I've know ppl who've been charged with dui for sitting in there car drunk, in their driveway and listening to music.

And I know ppl who've been charged for no helmet, even though they were on private property.

"Impaired Operation" is a different story and it's governed by the Criminal Code of Canada. There's something called "care and control"; if you are in control of a vehicle, whether operating it or not, you can be charged with impaired. Impaired operation charges don't require that you be on public roads, as they also apply to aircraft and boats.

In Ontario, at least, helmets must be worn unless you're on YOUR OWN property, or property on which you reside (lease/rent).

[goof2]

Sure, accomplice to breaking the law..

There doesn't need to be a law that says, "you cannot give somebody your gun to commit murder". Its a given that if you assist in breaking the law in any way, you're an accomplice.

There is a law, it is not a given.

[z06boy]

You are lucky. If that happened here your friend most likely would have been charged with impaired driving or whatever they call it when you are under .08 BAC but they still want to fuck with you. If the cops here take the time to bring you to get breathalyzed you are probably getting arrested for something unless the meter shows .00.

Oh I agree but actaully it was my friend that was lucky and not me to a certain extent. They chose to not charge him with anything but yes I guess they could have.

However as far as me being lucky...the possible charge was "Aiding and abetting a DUI"...well since he didn't blow an .08...I could NOT be charged with anything since his .06 did not constitute a DUI. That is the exact words the magistrate used when the officer asked about me.

They could have charged my friend still being under the influence though as you and I both said.

Actually I WAS LUCKY on another point. There was a loaded Glock under the driver's seat that was mine. I immediatly told the officer about it too but no big deal was made of it I guess because we didn't give them any negative/cocky attitude at all at anytime :idk: I do have a conceal carry permit but obviously that goes out the window when under the influence. I knew that at the time but again...after the officer's looked at it and since I had volunteered the info and everything checked out when they ran a check on it and my non existant criminal record...all was good. It may also have helped that I work in Executive Protection for a very large prominant company and work with LEO's and ex LEO's everyday. :idk:

[goof2]

Oh I agree but actaully it was my friend that was lucky and not me to a certain extent. They chose to not charge him with anything but yes I guess they could have.

However as far as me being lucky...the possible charge was "Aiding and abetting a DUI"...well since he didn't blow an .08...I could NOT be charged with anything since his .06 did not constitute a DUI. That is the exact words the magistrate used when the officer asked about me.

They could have charged my friend still being under the influence though as you and I both said.

Actually I WAS LUCKY on another point. There was a loaded Glock under the driver's seat that was mine. I immediatly told the officer about it too but no big deal was made of it I guess because we didn't give them any negative/cocky attitude at all at anytime :idk: I do have a conceal carry permit but obviously that goes out the window when under the influence. I knew that at the time but again...after the officer's looked at it and since I had volunteered the info and everything checked out when they ran a check on it and my non existant criminal record...all was good. It may also have helped that I work in Executive Protection for a very large prominant company and work with LEO's and ex LEO's everyday. :idk:

That seems to be the best plan. Don't be a dick and hope they reciprocate. It definitely would have been a lot worse for your friend, but I'm guessing your car would have been impounded, you having to get a cab home, and getting a ride back the next day to bail your friend and car out. From my experience a cop can make your life as miserable as they want, the charge is irrelevant.

[z06boy]

That seems to be the best plan. Don't be a dick and hope they reciprocate. It definitely would have been a lot worse for your friend, but I'm guessing your car would have been impounded, you having to get a cab home, and getting a ride back the next day to bail your friend and car out. From my experience a cop can make your life as miserable as they want, the charge is irrelevant.

Agreed 100 %.

[karl_1052]

You're very likely right there. It's probably response to outrage or, as is unfortunately quite common these days, in order to avoid possible outrage. I couldn't count how many people I've known over the years, who borrowed bikes so that they could LEARN how to ride.

It's not illegal to operate a vehicle without a license on private property, if you either own the property or have the owner's permission to do so. There are some exceptions to this, but for the most part my statement is true.

The article is very vague, it never says if he left the parking lot, or even if he was wearing a helmet.

Guilty, without a trial.

Welcome to Daltario

[Papa_Complex]

The article is very vague, it never says if he left the parking lot, or even if he was wearing a helmet.

Welcome to Daltario

As much as I'd like to blame Premier Lair for all of this, I can't. The racing and stunting law and ramped up penalties for NOT being drunk in the Province of Ontario were both pushed through under Bill 203, which was voted for UNANIMOUSLY by all members of Provincial Parliament. That means that all three of the major parties supported it completely.

Some of the other crap that's been put forward was actually instigated by Frank Klees, who is a PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE member of Parliament.

They're all bastards who put 'feel good' legislation, that will garner votes from special interest groups, above their duty to make good law. In some cases when someone asks that a law be passed in order to stop something from happening the best answer is, "No."

We didn't have a problem with street racing. Ontario's streets are statistically the safest on the continent.

We didn't need to come down harder on people who have a couple of beers and then drive, with a blood alcohol level below legal impairment. The people who cause injuries and deaths are typically 2 to 3 times the legal limit and have been driving like that for years, frequently without a valid license.

Shaun de Jager has a great website about this stuff and gets the occasional radio interview, to try and raise awareness among the Ontario public. Pass it on.

http://www.thelonelyrider.com/