RIP Oreo

[Avatard]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/oreo-is-dead/

:(

[Kaneman]

Maybe one day those who take care of dogs for a living will actually take the time to learn something about them instead of just sticking them with a needle.

[pauldun170]

I thought this thread was going to be about one of my people.

[Avatard]

Kaneman, I knew this would bother you as much as it bothered me.

[Kaneman]

I thought this thread was going to be about one of my people.

Native Americans?

Kaneman, I knew this would bother you as much as it bothered me.

No doubt. I honestly believe you judge a society based on how it treats its lowest and poorest members and its animals. The dog being thrown off a building was bad enough, but its to be suspected because there are plenty of animal abusing sociopaths out there.

But then for an organization who's sole purpose is to look after the well being of animals like the ASPCA to put the dog down despite numerous adoption requests is even worse I think. And I know they're not doing it because they're mean or hateful, and I know it probably made them sad...they're doing it simply because they don't understand dogs.

I see it everytime I go to the local shelters or chat with the Animal Control officer (she always stops me when I'm running my dogs). It blows my mind...it'd be like if you didn't know what a piano was or if Trip didn't know what an Isotope was.

[karl_1052]

I thought this thread was going to be about one of my people.

What do you mean "You people?":tremble:

RIP Oreo. I am with Kaneman. Just because you can't train the dog because your Petsmart training does not work, does not mean someone cannot train the dog. Look at Vicks dogs.

[Kaneman]

What do you mean "You people?":tremble:

RIP Oreo. I am with Kaneman. Just because you can't train the dog because your Petsmart training does not work, does not mean someone cannot train the dog. Look at Vicks dogs.

Unfortunately that mentality is growing in the canine community. The PitBull forum is a good example of that. If you even mention training your dog in a way that is not purely positive they will wig the fuck out like you are the Hitler of dogs.

The ASPCA is anti-Cesar Millan BTW, they say his methods do more harm than good. I guess they feel that dogs are literally better off dead than being corrected for "bad" behavior.

[julie j]

This story pisses me off but it did remind me that I have been meaning to donate to a local guy that takes in “non-adoptable” dogs. http://olympicanimalsanctuary.org/ RIP Oreo :no:

[Ninjakel]

Jesus, that's fucked up.

Poor Oreo. RIP

[the chi]

This is definitely terrible and I feel terribly for Oreo.

But in this instance I must play devils advocate, if they adopted Oreo out after she failed all her behavioral tests, and someone was hurt or killed, who would you be blaming then?

The ASPCA for allowing a dangerous animal to return to the "public"?

You cant keep an animal caged 24/7 without being cruel, but you cant have a pet that no one ever comes into contact with either. And if she dug out? What then? Ate an old lady on her door step because no one could control her?

Blame the previous owner who made her the way she is? That doesnt help the person she injured or the old lady she killed...

Blame the new owner who got too close to the food bowl and was attacked?

(I in no way endorse senseless euthanasia.)

[karl_1052]

This is definitely terrible and I feel terribly for Oreo.

But in this instance I must play devils advocate, if they adopted Oreo out after she failed all her behavioral tests, and someone was hurt or killed, who would you be blaming then?

The ASPCA for allowing a dangerous animal to return to the "public"?

You cant keep an animal caged 24/7 without being cruel, but you cant have a pet that no one ever comes into contact with either. And if she dug out? What then? Ate an old lady on her door step because no one could control her?

Blame the previous owner who made her the way she is? That doesnt help the person she injured or the old lady she killed...

Blame the new owner who got too close to the food bowl and was attacked?

(I in no way endorse senseless euthanasia.)

There are places that are willing to rehabilitate animals like OREO.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dogtown/all/Overview

[Kaneman]

This is definitely terrible and I feel terribly for Oreo.

But in this instance I must play devils advocate, if they adopted Oreo out after she failed all her behavioral tests, and someone was hurt or killed, who would you be blaming then?

The ASPCA for allowing a dangerous animal to return to the "public"?

You cant keep an animal caged 24/7 without being cruel, but you cant have a pet that no one ever comes into contact with either. And if she dug out? What then? Ate an old lady on her door step because no one could control her?

Blame the previous owner who made her the way she is? That doesnt help the person she injured or the old lady she killed...

Blame the new owner who got too close to the food bowl and was attacked?

(I in no way endorse senseless euthanasia.)

Which brings me back to my last point that organizations that deal with dogs like the ASPCA don't understand the first thing about canine mentality and psychology.

The fact is that it just isn't that hard to rehab an abused or aggressive canine. The problem is that organizations like the ASPCA strongly denounce the methods that are successfully used for that type of rehab thus making their mission statement irrelevant.

You don't adopt out an animal with a bad past to some old lady. You adopt him out to a strong guy that doesn't have kids and has the patience to fix the dog. It really is not that hard to do.

[the chi]

There are places that are willing to rehabilitate animals like OREO.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dogtown/all/Overview

Which brings me back to my last point that organizations that deal with dogs like the ASPCA don't understand the first thing about canine mentality and psychology.

The fact is that it just isn't that hard to rehab an abused or aggressive canine. The problem is that organizations like the ASPCA strongly denounce the methods that are successfully used for that type of rehab thus making their mission statement irrelevant.

You don't adopt out an animal with a bad past to some old lady. You adopt him out to a strong guy that doesn't have kids and has the patience to fix the dog. It really is not that hard to do.

But what you guys are ultimately missing here is:

1) The ASPCA is responsible for the animal. They cant transfer it to another organization, they would still be responsible for that animal being "in society" if something were to occur which would lead to bad publicity and repercussions for their decision to allow a "menace" out.

2) They dont have the resources to screen adopters to the level you suggest. They deal with hundreds and thousands of animals, and making sure a pet goes to a strong male dominant owner who has the skills to deal with a "trouble" animal isnt remotely reasonable. As for how hard it may to rehab a trouble animal, thats a matter of opinion and personal thought. Spending 6 months rehabbing a troubled and aggressive animal when you have 200 more that dont need that level of attention isnt logical.

Have you ever tried to adopt out a GOOD animal? One without behavioral problems? It can be near impossible. They dont have the resources to keep on a problem when its hard enough to get homes for loving gentle animals that can be placed anywhere.

I dont disagree, but at the same time, the ASPCA has a system that works. They do what they have to do to best take care of all the animals, not single individuals that are in essence too damaged to easily rehab. Should they have given Oreo some time and transferred her, especially in light of the publicity they got on her? IMPO, of course. But thats not how it works guys.

Havent you watched animal police? Animals that show an intolerable level of aggression and and have problems are put down. Thats how it works. Several states have laws that certain breeds are put down immediately without the benefit of working with them. Its sucks, but thats how it is.

Unless you want to become independently wealthy, get the rules changed so you can take the animals and the responsibility to deal with them, the ASPCA (typically) does the best it can.

[karl_1052]

But what you guys are ultimately missing here is:

1) The ASPCA is responsible for the animal. They cant transfer it to another organization, they would still be responsible for that animal being "in society" if something were to occur which would lead to bad publicity and repercussions for their decision to allow a "menace" out.

How would the ASPCA stay responsible for an animal they turned over to another organization?
That is a ridiculous statement.

[Kaneman]

That's not true. The local animal shelter has no responsibilty whatsoever over the dogs I adopt from there. Once I sign the papers they are mine and I am 100% responsible for whatever happens from then on.

More than that though, its just not that hard to rehab an aggressive and abused dog if you take the slightest bit of time to learn something about it, which shelters and the ASPCA does not. They go with the "experts" without putting any of the methods in use in the real world.

How hard is to to tell if a potential adopter is a little old lady or a dude with no kids? Again, not that hard. We're talking about a minimal amount of effort here.

[the chi]

How would the ASPCA stay responsible for an animal they turned over to another organization?
That is a ridiculous statement.

No, its not. We live in a ridiculous nation. Think lawsuit.

The ASPCA gets an animal they cant adopt due to "issues". They sign it over to another organization. This organization works with it, or releases it to its new owner. Dog reverts or isnt rehabilitated and attacks or accidently turns on someone.

New owner or victim sues owner, and organization that gave the dog PLUS the ASPCA as being ultimately responsible for letting a "bad" animal leave their premises. Even if they signed legal documents, as ridiculous as things are with lawsuits these days, they could be held liable for the dog in the end.

[Kaneman]

No, its not. We live in a ridiculous nation. Think lawsuit.

The ASPCA gets an animal they cant adopt due to "issues". They sign it over to another organization. This organization works with it, or releases it to its new owner. Dog reverts or isnt rehabilitated and attacks or accidently turns on someone.

New owner or victim sues owner, and organization that gave the dog PLUS the ASPCA as being ultimately responsible for letting a "bad" animal leave their premises. Even if they signed legal documents, as ridiculous as things are with lawsuits these days, they could be held liable for the dog in the end.

So if a dog from a breeder attacks someone does the breeder get sued?

[the chi]

That's not true. The local animal shelter has no responsibilty whatsoever over the dogs I adopt from there. Once I sign the papers they are mine and I am 100% responsible for whatever happens from then on.

More than that though, its just not that hard to rehab an aggressive and abused dog if you take the slightest bit of time to learn something about it, which shelters and the ASPCA does not. They go with the "experts" without putting any of the methods in use in the real world.

How hard is to to tell if a potential adopter is a little old lady or a dude with no kids? Again, not that hard. We're talking about a minimal amount of effort here.


No babe, you're not. What is minimal effort to you isnt to an organization that has hundred of animals to care for.

What is minimal time and effort to you, isnt to another person. (The adopter)

Case in point, idiots who have a hard to train pet and put it down versus take the time and effort to train it.

[the chi]

So if a dog from a breeder attacks someone does the breeder get sued?

Its happened. I dont have the time to look for a case right now, but a coworkers gramma breeds chi's and someone tried to sue her because they shook it to death. Not her fault or a defect in the dog, but because she bred and sold it, they tried to get her for their irresponsibility and cruelty. :shrug:

You guys do realize I am playing devil's advocate right? Im looking at all angles, not just the one from my heart strings. :wink:

[Kaneman]

Its happened. I dont have the time to look for a case right now, but a coworkers gramma breeds chi's and someone tried to sue her because they shook it to death. Not her fault or a defect in the dog, but because she bred and sold it, they tried to get her for their irresponsibility and cruelty. :shrug:

You guys do realize I am playing devil's advocate right? Im looking at all angles, not just the one from my heart strings. :wink:

Sure, but anybody can be sued over anything. Killing dogs is not the answer to that problem.

[Avatard]

God forbid we all live our lives fearing what we could be sued for - we'd all never leave fucking home.

[LeeNetworX]

I clicked on this thread while holding a cold and tall glass of milk; imagine my surprise.

[101lifts2]

Kaneman, I knew this would bother you as much as it bothered me.

If you eat meat, you cannot be spout off being humane to animals unless you wish to be labeled a hypocrite.

[Avatard]

Dude, you have issues.

I think I'm just gonna choose to ignore your more ignorant and ridiculous arguments from now on.

I really don't like typing THAT much, and well...you're just not worth it.




I mean, yeah...you're right

http://poopnugget.com/files/whatever.gif

[Kaneman]

If you eat meat, you cannot be spout off being humane to animals unless you wish to be labeled a hypocrite.

I ate your mom's pussy and then had a burger...does that make me a hypocrite?

[karl_1052]

I ate your mom's pussy and then had a burger...does that make me a hypocrite?

his moms pussy is not meat, it is more like a pried apart grilled cheeze.

redflip