View Full Version : Buell Owners: NightRider XiED
Gas Man
11-23-2009, 09:42 PM
Buell Owners. They make one for you too! Read up.
Knight Rider Performence is not only a great place for bike tech (http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/) but also sells a few select performance parts (http://www.nightrider.com/parts/) as well.
Their bread winner has to be the XiEDs.
Don't let the Harley heat monster ruin your riding.
Reduced Engine and Exhaust Temperatures
Reduce Engine Surging
Improve Throttle Response
Reduce Engine Ping
I like to keep in mind the intended purpose of each bike. My Ultra is designed to trek me cross country in comfort. It is not a hot rod. It gets a bit hot and throttle response could be improved. The Nightster runs cool enough for what I notice, but throttle response sucks.
I figured it this way. I have 2 choices. First, aftermarket tuner + dyno time, which adds up to $500+/-. Gain some added power, cooler temps, better throttle response. Second, and my choice, NightRiders XiED, which will give me cooler temps, better throttle response, and maybe?
I have been waiting all year for the new 2009 FLH XiED to be certified. They finally were and I picked up a set for the Ultra and a set of X14iEDs for the 2009 Nightster.
The Ultra's, which I have yet to install. The added wire is to correct the new FLH dirty ground.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/NightRider002.jpg
The Nightster's X14iEDs
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider001.jpg
The plug-n-play installation is just that.
Front:
Unplug the O2 sensor here
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider003.jpg
Put the X14iED inline between the O2 and the bike's wiring
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider004.jpg
Then tuck it in somewhere keeping it away from hot items
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider005.jpg
Used 2 zip ties and the existing clamp to keep it tight and clean
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider007.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider008.jpg
Rear:
Stock wiring plug here
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider009.jpg
Unplug
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider011.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider010.jpg
Plug in and zip tie into place
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider012.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Nightster/NightRider014.jpg
I added a step, that wasn't in the NightRider instructions. I pulled the maxi fuse for 15 mins. Then reinstalled that. Took the bike for a nice 15 mile ride.
First thing that I noticed was improved throttle response at idle. It use to plup then rev off idle when you whack the throttle. 75% of that is gone.
In gear, clutch out, and twist the throttle. I instantly notice the throttle response. I swear they installed a few extra power points. Couple that with the throttle response and the end result is all big grins. I'm amazed!! It feels like it added 5-10hp.
I still need to do the Ultra install and report back. I'm also going to have the brother in law ride the Nightster for a 2nd opinion (he's rode it a few times). But right now the weather is poopy for the next 4 days.
More to come...
Rangerscott
11-23-2009, 11:41 PM
Wish they would make these for my 5th gen VFR.
Gas Man
11-23-2009, 11:53 PM
Sorry. You can email Stephen. But it sure does seem to be HD related only.
Marko... you need these!!! Trust me. It did huge wonders to the nightster!!
marko138
11-24-2009, 08:00 AM
Hmm. You've got my attention. There's a guy who makes tuning software for the XB's called ECMspy. But I've resisted because I dont really have any complaints with the throttle response or power delivery of my bike, and I don't really wanna get in to tuning myself.
But if this is as easy as it looks then I might be in to it.
What, exactly, are these two wires doing?
And, semi-related, does your Ultra have two O2 sensors? Mine only has one, on the rear header.
dReWpY
11-24-2009, 02:33 PM
do they make a 1125 one though....
so how much did that resistor run? considering how well that trick works with the ebay ''chips'' id be surprised if it didnt live up to the name of ied
Tmall
11-24-2009, 04:29 PM
What does it do exactly?
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 04:33 PM
Hmm. You've got my attention. There's a guy who makes tuning software for the XB's called ECMspy. But I've resisted because I dont really have any complaints with the throttle response or power delivery of my bike, and I don't really wanna get in to tuning myself.
But if this is as easy as it looks then I might be in to it.
What, exactly, are these two wires doing?
And, semi-related, does your Ultra have two O2 sensors? Mine only has one, on the rear header.
This is plug n play. Simply put.
Ok lean is mean. Too a point. Go too far and you will end up with burnt motor parts. Understand that all of our bikes come "EPA lean" which is between mean and burnt.
This gives you excessive heat off the motor and exhaust. It also, means that there is not enuff gas in the mixture when you smack the throttle open to rev properly. You get the lag then rev. A motor is a big air pump. You twist the throttle the throttle body opens and allows more air to enter the motor. However, due to lag with the epa lean mix, there isn't enough gas to accomodate the air. It leans out till the injectors give you more. Results = poor throttle response. These correct that by fooling the stock ecm into seeing a different resistent measure off the O2 sensor. This changes the a/f from 14.2 to 13.6 across the board. The ecm will still adjust to changing atmosphere as it does now.
There is some resistors and whatever in the 2 wires. Mine has 3 cause I have to ground the rear.
Both my bikes have 2 sensors. 1 per pipe.
do they make a 1125 one though....
I'm not sure. Email him.
so how much did that resistor run? considering how well that trick works with the ebay ''chips'' id be surprised if it didnt live up to the name of ied
I paid $100 per set for mine. The problem with trying to make your own. Is that there are very strict criteria you have to follow when dealing with O2 sensors. I think its something like you can't soldier, have to use the special connectors, etc. Certainly there isn't $100 worth of parts but consider that you're also paying for the R&D they do. Which is alot. I know one of his 3rd party testers he uses for certification.
Nightrider site is amazing. Scroll thru the first link I put up. He's got tons of info on everything from spark plugs, motor oil, etc. If you have any questions, email him. His name is Steve and he is very helpfull.
Tmall
11-24-2009, 04:41 PM
Just checked out the site. Seems to make a ton of sense, and its cheap.
I may look into this over the winter.
marko138
11-24-2009, 04:42 PM
Just checked out the site. Seems to make a ton of sense, and its cheap.
I may look into this over the winter.
You running ECMspy at all?
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 04:54 PM
I have given it a 88% endorsement. Will complete my endorsement once I get it added and test rode to the Ultra.
marko138
11-24-2009, 04:56 PM
I have given it a 88% endorsement. Will complete my endorsement once I get it added and test rode to the Ultra.
This messege has been approved by marko138.
Tmall
11-24-2009, 04:59 PM
Marko, I was going to use it, but it doesn't work so easily on the 08 and up bikes. You need to buy conversion software to write to the ecm. Its not particularly expensive by any means but, like you I'm not very confident with messing around with fuel mapping.
This just makes it run a little richer throughout the rpm range by making it think its getting more air than it really is all the time.
Seems like the smartest way to overcome the dynamic fuel injection, just change the reading of the probe. I don't see how the bike could compensate and over ride it.
I'm going to get in touch with him and see what kind of buell specific advice he can give.
marko138
11-24-2009, 05:14 PM
Marko, I was going to use it, but it doesn't work so easily on the 08 and up bikes. You need to buy conversion software to write to the ecm. Its not particularly expensive by any means but, like you I'm not very confident with messing around with fuel mapping.
This just makes it run a little richer throughout the rpm range by making it think its getting more air than it really is all the time.
Seems like the smartest way to overcome the dynamic fuel injection, just change the reading of the probe. I don't see how the bike could compensate and over ride it.
I'm going to get in touch with him and see what kind of buell specific advice he can give.
Right on.
I keep thinking about getting ECMspy so I can do my own TPS resets too.
I paid $100 per set for mine. The problem with trying to make your own. Is that there are very strict criteria you have to follow when dealing with O2 sensors. I think its something like you can't soldier, have to use the special connectors, etc. Certainly there isn't $100 worth of parts but consider that you're also paying for the R&D they do. Which is alot. I know one of his 3rd party testers he uses for certification.
Nightrider site is amazing. Scroll thru the first link I put up. He's got tons of info on everything from spark plugs, motor oil, etc. If you have any questions, email him. His name is Steve and he is very helpfull.
i'll agree that he seems to have put a lot of time and effort into these and picking the right voltage. seems dependant on harley epa facory tuning and guys not wanting to shell for a pcV.
Tmall
11-24-2009, 05:29 PM
Marko, as smart as gasman seems to be electrically, he could probably build you an ecm spy cable. Its just a usb cable with a deutch connector grafted on to it. If not, you can buy one for 40 bones.
I hear tps resets are one of the main reasons to own it. And once you figure it out, you won't have to give a dealer any money!
The software is hard to find now. I have a copy on my pc if you'd like it, I just need to wait for my internet guy to come in and hook it up. It comes with a pdf tuning guide as well.
marko138
11-24-2009, 05:33 PM
Marko, as smart as gasman seems to be electrically, he could probably build you an ecm spy cable. Its just a usb cable with a deutch connector grafted on to it. If not, you can buy one for 40 bones.
I hear tps resets are one of the main reasons to own it. And once you figure it out, you won't have to give a dealer any money!
The software is hard to find now. I have a copy on my pc if you'd like it, I just need to wait for my internet guy to come in and hook it up. It comes with a pdf tuning guide as well.
I should just buy a cable. Stuff is cheap enough. Probly wouldn't ever use it to tune.
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 07:47 PM
i'll agree that he seems to have put a lot of time and effort into these and picking the right voltage. seems dependant on harley epa facory tuning and guys not wanting to shell for a pcV.
Exactly. That is me. I didn't have the desire to shell out $500+ for a tuner and dyno time. Cause I'm not so concerned about power gain, as much as I wanted better throttle response and especially with the Ultra (TC96) wanted to cool it down. The TC96 motors are known for getting WAY WAY hot. I'm talking 280*+ oil temps on the highway.
Marko, as smart as gasman seems to be electrically, he could probably build you an ecm spy cable. Its just a usb cable with a deutch connector grafted on to it. If not, you can buy one for 40 bones.
I hear tps resets are one of the main reasons to own it. And once you figure it out, you won't have to give a dealer any money!
The software is hard to find now. I have a copy on my pc if you'd like it, I just need to wait for my internet guy to come in and hook it up. It comes with a pdf tuning guide as well.
Thanks for the confidence but I don't have those mad skillz.
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 07:49 PM
Marko, I was going to use it, but it doesn't work so easily on the 08 and up bikes. You need to buy conversion software to write to the ecm. Its not particularly expensive by any means but, like you I'm not very confident with messing around with fuel mapping.
This just makes it run a little richer throughout the rpm range by making it think its getting more air than it really is all the time.
Seems like the smartest way to overcome the dynamic fuel injection, just change the reading of the probe. I don't see how the bike could compensate and over ride it.
I'm going to get in touch with him and see what kind of buell specific advice he can give.
I'm interested in what he says. He shows that he has some limited ViED version for the buells but don't show them in the table where you purchase.
marko138
11-24-2009, 07:56 PM
Dude only lists stuff for Buell back to 06. No good for me.
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 08:15 PM
He has a forum to aid in questions
http://www.tuneyourharley.com/forum/
I searched buell and found a few things
http://www.tuneyourharley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22&p=302&hilit=buell&sid=eab82a1b11333ef0decc0182021677b4#p302
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 08:19 PM
Looks like he's recommending the brand new modular setup.
http://www.nightrider.com/parts/index_modular.htm
Look like it still wouldn't cost.
marko138
11-24-2009, 09:09 PM
Dudes website BLOWS.
Gas Man
11-24-2009, 09:16 PM
Guy has always been about content more so than look. He's rock solid when it comes to tech!
marko138
11-24-2009, 09:17 PM
Guy has always been about content more so than look. He's rock solid when it comes to tech!
Yeah, well he ain't gonna sell me shit unless I know what I'm looking at. And I dont.
Gas Man
11-25-2009, 02:03 AM
Got to do more reading... click around the site. There is so much info on his site you could be there all day.
Here's some more info on the iED
http://www.nightrider.com/parts/ied_faq.htm
http://www.nightrider.com/parts/ied_product_line.htm
Some info on the HD high heat
http://www.nightrider.com/parts/hd2007hd_heat_00.htm
As I said about other tech related info
Right side menu... http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/
Examples which all include links inside them if you want to be educated more:
motor oil
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oilinfo0.htm
Spark plugs
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdsparkplugs.htm
marko138
11-25-2009, 07:53 AM
He should hire someone to do a proper website. Might help his business.
Gas Man
11-25-2009, 01:51 PM
Yeah perhaps.
Gas Man
11-29-2009, 02:00 AM
Well I did the install on the Ultra.
The units themselves
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider002.jpg
Locate Front
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider001.jpg
Unplug
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider0022.jpg
Now not only did I plug the unit inline, I shrink wrapped the grounding end for 2 reasons. One to cover up the pink plastic, and two, to keep water out of it.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider003.jpg
I then also replaced the yellow zip tie and then zip tied the wires into the same place the harness was before.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider004.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider006.jpg
Found the rear just behind the oil dipstick.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider008.jpg
Unplug
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider009.jpg
Ran the grounding wire up to the battery ground under the seat
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider010.jpg
See the blue connector
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider011.jpg
Shrink wrap the grounding connection, same two reasons
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider012.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider013.jpg
Zip tie it all together
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider014.jpg
Tucked back into place
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider015.jpg
I must say, I 100% endorse this product. While the greatest benifit for a Twin Cam is to cool the motor down, which I won't be able to notice till next year sometime. However, the throttle response is nearly the same improvement on the Ultra, benifit as well.
Hands down this is a must do mod, especially for $100 and its complete ease.
Well I did the install on the Ultra.
The units themselves
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider002.jpg
Locate Front
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider001.jpg
Unplug
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider0022.jpg
Now not only did I plug the unit inline, I shrink wrapped the grounding end for 2 reasons. One to cover up the pink plastic, and two, to keep water out of it.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider003.jpg
I then also replaced the yellow zip tie and then zip tied the wires into the same place the harness was before.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider004.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider006.jpg
Found the rear just behind the oil dipstick.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider008.jpg
Unplug
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider009.jpg
Ran the grounding wire up to the battery ground under the seat
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider010.jpg
See the blue connector
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider011.jpg
Shrink wrap the grounding connection, same two reasons
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider012.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider013.jpg
Zip tie it all together
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider014.jpg
Tucked back into place
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Ultra%20Classic/Mods/NightRider015.jpg
I must say, I 100% endorse this product. While the greatest benifit for a Twin Cam is to cool the motor down, which I won't be able to notice till next year sometime. However, the throttle response is nearly the same improvement on the Ultra, benifit as well.
Hands down this is a must do mod, especially for $100 and its complete ease.
uhhh. is that an oil cap with a battery operated Lcd level display? im not sure how i feel about that...
Cutty72
11-29-2009, 05:14 AM
Come on, you didn't like the pink? :lol:
and I think the display is for oil temp.
Gas Man
11-29-2009, 09:13 PM
Come on, you didn't like the pink? :lol:
and I think the display is for oil temp.
F the pink.
It is a oil dipstick. It gives oil temp and level (corrected based on oil temp). Trick setup for sure.
interesting. another thing i dont think id trust, it it battery operated?
Gas Man
11-30-2009, 12:55 AM
Its not battery operated at all. Its simply a assembly of resisters and whatever.
Its not battery operated at all. Its simply a assembly of resisters and whatever.
already looked it up, it is. 3v button cell.
Tmall
11-30-2009, 05:36 AM
Sure gas was talking about the wiring, not the oil dip stick. :lol
marko138
11-30-2009, 08:00 AM
interesting. another thing i dont think id trust, it it battery operated?
Who gives a shit what you trust. It's not your bike, don't worry about it.
Homeslice
11-30-2009, 08:10 AM
So this thing is basically a resistor that sends back a constant value, right? If so, sounds exactly like the Dynojet O2 sensor eliminator, which you can get for only $20. Only difference is that it only plugs into the ECM side....... the O2 sensor doesn't need to be connected to anything anymore.
Tmall
11-30-2009, 08:30 AM
So this thing is basically a resistor that sends back a constant value, right? If so, sounds exactly like the Dynojet O2 sensor eliminator, which you can get for only $20. Only difference is that it only plugs into the ECM side....... the O2 sensor doesn't need to be connected to anything anymore.
The ecm takes a reading and compensates the fuel. With the resistor, your ecm is still compensating, it's just thinking it's getting more air. So, it adds fuel. The benefit is, it continues to be dynamic and change injection rate due to altitude, temp, and load etc..
If you would remove the o2 sensor altogether, it would not be able to compensate.
In a nutshell, this device allows the bike to continue to compensate for various situations, but richens up the mixture at the same time.
Homeslice
11-30-2009, 09:16 AM
The ecm takes a reading and compensates the fuel. With the resistor, your ecm is still compensating, it's just thinking it's getting more air. So, it adds fuel. The benefit is, it continues to be dynamic and change injection rate due to altitude, temp, and load etc..
If you would remove the o2 sensor altogether, it would not be able to compensate.
In a nutshell, this device allows the bike to continue to compensate for various situations, but richens up the mixture at the same time.
so, while mine just returns the same value all the time, his actually uses what the O2 sensor is saying, but modifies the value?
Tmall
11-30-2009, 09:20 AM
so, while mine just returns the same value all the time, his actually uses what the O2 sensor is saying, but modifies the value?
Yes. Buells fuel injection is very lean from the factory. The resistor changes the value, causing the ecm to compensate and adds (arbitrary number) 2% to the fuel. The ecm works as normal, takes readings and changes fuel maps on the fly, it's just enriched by X% throughout the closed loop area by changing the signal from the o2 sensor.
Who gives a shit what you trust. It's not your bike, don't worry about it.
is it ever possible for you NOT to be a jerkoff? i mean my birthday is coming up and it would be a nice surprise.
marko138
11-30-2009, 10:50 AM
is it ever possible for you NOT to be a jerkoff? i mean my birthday is coming up and it would be a nice surprise.
Maybe for your birthday.
Cutty72
11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Maybe for your birthday.
didn't your mother teach you not to lie.
Gas Man
11-30-2009, 11:00 PM
already looked it up, it is. 3v button cell.
Sure gas was talking about the wiring, not the oil dip stick. :lol
I'm sorry, didn't know you were talking about the oil dipstick Dave.
Who gives a shit what you trust. It's not your bike, don't worry about it.
But marko makes a good pt. What's there to trust? It only works when you push the button. Its not constantly drawing power.
So this thing is basically a resistor that sends back a constant value, right? If so, sounds exactly like the Dynojet O2 sensor eliminator, which you can get for only $20. Only difference is that it only plugs into the ECM side....... the O2 sensor doesn't need to be connected to anything anymore.
tmall explained it perfectly.
The ecm takes a reading and compensates the fuel. With the resistor, your ecm is still compensating, it's just thinking it's getting more air. So, it adds fuel. The benefit is, it continues to be dynamic and change injection rate due to altitude, temp, and load etc..
If you would remove the o2 sensor altogether, it would not be able to compensate.
In a nutshell, this device allows the bike to continue to compensate for various situations, but richens up the mixture at the same time.
so, while mine just returns the same value all the time, his actually uses what the O2 sensor is saying, but modifies the value?
Yes. Buells fuel injection is very lean from the factory. The resistor changes the value, causing the ecm to compensate and adds (arbitrary number) 2% to the fuel. The ecm works as normal, takes readings and changes fuel maps on the fly, it's just enriched by X% throughout the closed loop area by changing the signal from the o2 sensor.
Thanks tmall for handling this for me.
marko138
12-01-2009, 07:56 AM
But marko makes a good pt.
Always. Everyone on this board is always worried about talking shit on everyone else's gear. STFU and worry about your own shit. :gofurslf:
I'm sorry, didn't know you were talking about the oil dipstick Dave.
But marko makes a good pt. What's there to trust? It only works when you push the button. Its not constantly drawing power.
tmall explained it perfectly.
Thanks tmall for handling this for me.
ah no it wasnt that. Hd's site didnt do the best job of explaining its functions. It was more of a i dont see how this could reliably gauge leveles kind of comment.
Gas Man
12-01-2009, 02:42 PM
It works. Trust me. Works very well.
marko138
12-01-2009, 02:47 PM
It works. Trust me. Works very well.
No one trusts you, you ride a Harley.
Gas Man
12-01-2009, 02:52 PM
True. But do it or I'll be forced to "wing" ya.
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