Global Warming - Hoax?

[fasternyou929]

Ok, I did a search and didn't see this posted anywhere here: http://www.examiner.com/x-25061-Climate-Change-Examiner~y2009m11d20-ClimateGate--Climate-centers-server-hacked-revealing-documents-and-emails

Granted, a lot of those e-mails could be taken out of context, but one would be pretty hard pressed to describe a context where the wording would be acceptable.

I'm sure AquaPython's already read this... what's your take?

[sherri_chickie]

Interesting.. but how real is it? I don't know about " warming" per say, but I do know that the climate has changed over the past 20 years or so. We used to get a lot more snow than we do now, it's the end of November and there is not a flake on the ground! I swear summers used to be hotter too, but that just might be the memory of a child who loved to spend her summers running around outside.

[CrazyKell]

I definitely think there has been global climate change. And in my mind it seems to be happening a lot faster than it used to (based on historical graphs).

I remember cold cold winters with tons of snow. Now, we hardly get anything. :idk:

[CrazyKell]

Commenting on the specific link and snippets of emails posted in that article.....they are all taken extremely out of context. "edited for brevity" could also be interpreted as edited for journalistic intent. :rolleyes: I think for the most part this is stuff taken out of context and that could logically be explained. :idk:

[Homeslice]

A more concise version:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/23/hacker.climate/index.html

[Rider]

Global warming is a naturally occurring cycle and I'm not worried about it in the least little bit.. Who's to say that we aren't in a normal warming cycle? Besides you should have seen the shit ton of snow we had last year.. global warming my ass.

[CrazyKell]

Global warming is a naturally occurring cycle and I'm not worried about it in the least little bit.. Who's to say that we aren't in a normal warming cycle? Besides you should have seen the shit ton of snow we had last year.. global warming my ass.

Well, doesn't the data that shows how the fluctuations have become wider since industrialization lead you to think that maybe we are having an effect?

[Rider]

Well, doesn't the data that shows how the fluctuations have become wider since industrialization lead you to think that maybe we are having an effect?

No.

[CrazyKell]

I agree that we are in a natural cycle. Not arguing that. I just think we are having more of an effect on the environment than we should be.

I "worry" for lack of a better word because I want to be aware of my effect on things.

[Ineffable]

I don't really buy into the whole 'environmental warming' thing but I support it. It has been my experience that people won't do anything unless there is something in it for them. I have been following this story the last week or so since it came out and have taken the time to read through the majority of the emails in full. I agree that it shows a lot of deceptive science (not quite to the extent that the journalist would have you believe) but at the same time the alternative data is based on a science that isn't fully excepted in the scientific community (tree rings).

If it encourages people to be more environmentally responsible then it is a necessary evil. Kind of like the whole weapons of mass destruction in Iraq ordeal. People need motivation, if I was to say "hey I think it might be a good idea to make an effort to make less of an impact on the earth" or "We HAVE to make less of an impact on earth or we will all die" which do you think people are going to respond to.

Before everyone gets upset about the whole 'masking trends by inserting additional data' you should keep in mind that most people don't even read the data or reports from scientific studies they just get the 'cliff notes' from a third party who has an agenda of there own and go from there.

Take into consideration the Prius, heralded as the most environ. friendly car. I wonder how many people who own one know that it is actually pretty bad for the environment, take into account the carbon debt accrued in manufacturing and the drive miles it takes to pay off vs an older used car whose carbon debt is already paid off I.E. (Prius' higher manufacturing impact + (Emissions per mile x miles driven)) is equal to or less than a used car's (manufacturing impact + (emissions per mile x miles driven)). Oh yea then the kicker, by the time you achieve being on the same level as an older car in overall footprint you have to get a new battery bank and dispose of the 30 lbs of mercury in the old batteries... setting you back. Then when you achieve equality again you buy a new car. How many people who run out and buy the new Prius are going to keep it longer than a person who buys an older used car and keeps it in good condition? Hate to break it to you but my old '97 Cavalier (my baby) is better for the earth than your new Prius currently and odds are you won't keep it long enough to overcome that.

Yes, weather patterns are changing but this is the natural course of things. You can see this in data spanning a decade, century or even millions of years. Even if we stopped ALL emissions today and lived in perfect balance with the earth another ice age is still going to happen. Our carbon output may accelerate this a bit but once again, after reading numerous studies on it I don't think it is as dire as they would like us to believe. The 'Day After Tomorrow' theory isn't going to happen.

[Tsunami]

My chemistry textbook actually explained global warming really well and what causes it- trapped carbon dioxide. If you guys really want me too, i'll type some of it out.

[Sean]

I'm naturally skeptical about any "cause" that people are making money off of.

[Homeslice]

Take into consideration the Prius, heralded as the most environ. friendly car. I wonder how many people who own one know that it is actually pretty bad for the environment, take into account the carbon debt accrued in manufacturing and the drive miles it takes to pay off vs an older used car whose carbon debt is already paid off I.E. (Prius' higher manufacturing impact + (Emissions per mile x miles driven)) is equal to or less than a used car's (manufacturing impact + (emissions per mile x miles driven)). Oh yea then the kicker, by the time you achieve being on the same level as an older car in overall footprint you have to get a new battery bank and dispose of the 30 lbs of mercury in the old batteries... setting you back. Then when you achieve equality again you buy a new car. How many people who run out and buy the new Prius are going to keep it longer than a person who buys an older used car and keeps it in good condition? Hate to break it to you but my old '97 Cavalier (my baby) is better for the earth than your new Prius currently and odds are you won't keep it long enough to overcome that.


Prius = pwn3d

[karl_1052]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw


fucking sheep

[Ineffable]

My chemistry textbook actually explained global warming really well and what causes it- trapped carbon dioxide. If you guys really want me too, i'll type some of it out.

Proof that it is a myth. Everyone knows we have a whole in the Ozone for the CO2 to get out :lol:

[Ineffable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw


fucking sheep

My point exactly. BTW here is an interesting article on Cow emissions, you think your car is bad how about owning a cow that produces greenhouse gases 24 hours a day. Cows, India's Global Warming Problem (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1890646,00.html)

[HRCNICK11]

Personally I think we should try to make less mess of our planet. But I also think that one large volcano will do more to the enviroment than we ever will.

I also think battery powered cars have batteries that will make a larger mess when tossed out and when being made than the normal car makes being driven. So they really are not green at all.

I normally would rather kick a hippy than talk to one.

[Kaneman]

The oceans are probably what we're destroying more on earth than anything else, but we do harm wherever we tread.

[Smittie61984]

Well, doesn't the data that shows how the fluctuations have become wider since industrialization lead you to think that maybe we are having an effect?

There was a show on Discovery a while back about the evolution of life up until man kind (nothing to do with global warming). They had scorpions the size of rottweilers. During each cycle they showed the oxygen level,average temp compared to today and there were many phases where it was 10degrees hotter (I believe in celcius) and then many times where it was 10degrees cooler.

I personally like to believe that man made global warming exists because I hate the cold with a passion. But I think there is very little man can do to affect the climate.

Also if the temperature rises wouldn't we have more evaporation and thus more rain which would cool the earth down? And if it was cooler less evaporation which would heat the Earth up? Basically it looks like Earth has it's own cooling and heating system like a car would.

I know too little about this stuff to make a definitive comment but I do believe most global warming/climate change concerns are just anti-capitalist/American people looking for a new home since the fall of the Soviet Union.

[Apoc]

I definitely think there has been global climate change. And in my mind it seems to be happening a lot faster than it used to (based on historical graphs).

I remember cold cold winters with tons of snow. Now, we hardly get anything. :idk:


Thats strange, because were getting more and more cold and snow (and I love it!)

[101lifts2]

I'm naturally skeptical about any "cause" that people are making money off of.

Exactly...How much did Gore make off of this? Alot...

[karl_1052]

Thats strange, because were getting more and more cold and snow (and I love it!)

The winter of 07 here was cms away from being a record year. Over 415cms.
That is a shit-ton of snow.

[Apoc]

The winter of 07 here was cms away from being a record year. Over 415cms.
That is a shit-ton of snow.

it was a record here, i forget the exact amount though.

[Amber Lamps]

I definitely think there has been global climate change. And in my mind it seems to be happening a lot faster than it used to (based on historical graphs).

I remember cold cold winters with tons of snow. Now, we hardly get anything. :idk:

Yea but that's what the woolly mammoths use to say too!:lol: The debate isn't over whether or not the climate changes, we have millions of years of fossil evidence and thousands of years worth of historical evidence to prove that it has changed many times in the past. The debate centers on whether or not "we" have caused it to change in ways that it wouldn't normally.:idk:

I have seen articles outside of this thread that have suggested that the numbers have been purposefully skewed and that, in fact, the planet has been cooling over the last decade. Besides, I may be the only one old enough to remember this, but when I was a kid there was a global cooling scare going on for a while. Scientists and "experts" were convinced that we were headed towards another ice age.:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

The winter of 07 here was cms away from being a record year. Over 415cms.
That is a shit-ton of snow.

Yea? Well that was in Canada. What the fuck does Kelly know about Canadian winters...anyway... oh yea. Hey Kelly what part of Canada do you live in?:lol:

BTW it snowed here in North Carolina last year and closed the town down for a couple days.

[Homeslice]

When I lived in Greensboro NC back in 2000, it snowed about 20 inches in 2 days, which caused the schools to stay closed for 2 whole weeks :lol: Pussies :lol:

[Amber Lamps]

When I lived in Greensboro NC back in 2000, it snowed about 20 inches in 2 days, which caused the schools to stay closed for 2 whole weeks :lol: Pussies :lol:

:lol:

['73 H1 Triple]

Yea but that's what the woolly mammoths use to say too!:lol: The debate isn't over whether or not the climate changes, we have millions of years of fossil evidence and thousands of years worth of historical evidence to prove that it has changed many times in the past. The debate centers on whether or not "we" have caused it to change in ways that it wouldn't normally.:idk:

I have seen articles outside of this thread that have suggested that the numbers have been purposefully skewed and that, in fact, the planet has been cooling over the last decade. Besides, I may be the only one old enough to remember this, but when I was a kid there was a global cooling scare going on for a while. Scientists and "experts" were convinced that we were headed towards another ice age.:lol:

I'm 49 and I remember that. I also remember them telling us we would totally converted over to the metric system by 1976 :lol

[ericr]

"Global Warming" is nothing more than a money making machine for the govt's that are pushing it. Fact is, it's been warming since the last ice age. Man and industry has an insigificant effect on the weather other than in small local areas. It has been proven that a large volcanic eruption puts more CO2 in the atmosphere than all industry has over time... Mt Saint Helens didn't cause the end of the world ;) CO2 isn't a hazard to the planet, plants live on CO2 and convert it to oxygen. And what about that hole in the ozone layer? A few years ago it shrank to the smallest size it's been since it was discovered. It's also grown and shrank over the years, just another "cycle".

The last 10 years have in fact been cooling and the "scientific community" (that is funded to investigate global warming) and the news have been trying to cover up the facts to keep the money machine rolling. The non community scientists have been saying the sun spot activity is down in the last 10 yrs which is causing the cooling trend. The heating trend before it was sun spot activity increasing. And for you younger folks, back in the 70's they were all concerned that we were approching a "mini ice age" because the global temps were down so much.

It's all cycles, it's cooling now, it's gonna warm again later, and we (mankind) aren't causing it. People in general like to have feelings of granduer, they want to think they can effect the whole world for good or bad. Makes them feel special ;)

[Smittie61984]

EricR. Stop listening to right wing hate filled talk radio! Don't you know that Boortz, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al spray cans of hairspray just so they can cause global warming and make more money saying it's fake???

Delusions of granduer are right. We (as in the entire world) could probably blow up every Nuclear, Chemical, Biological, and Conventional weapon we have and in a few hundred years it would not even look like we were ever here.

Besides if we don't have "global warming" or "global cooling" then they'd be freaking out that we are at a "global stalemate" and that nothing is happening due to man (more specifically the United States).

[ericr]

Exactly...How much did Gore make off of this? Alot...

I overlooked your post earlier and it brings up a very valid point...how can "buying carbon credits" offset the use of any carbon fuel? Carbon credits are not real "things", they are made up so idiots like Gore can use more energy than a small town and claim it's ok because he buys carbon credits to offset it!! I can't believe people actually buy into these ideas!

And Smittie, I figured it out myself long before there was talk radio ;) It must have been 20yrs ago that Atlanta started talking about all the smog in the city in the summer time. It's not there in the winter though, hmmmm. There was a study by a group of scientist that discovered the smog problem wasn't from traffic, it was from turpin fumes released in hot weather by all the pine trees in the area. Guess thats why it wasn't a problem in the winter, huh? Do you know why the Smoky Mountains got their name? They look smoky in the summer, from all the pine trees in hot weather :D

I'm not saying large metro areas dont suffer from all the traffic in them, they do. But if you shut all the cars down it would clear up in a matter of days, not years. There have also been more health problems since they started using cats on vehicles that no one will admit to. Yes, carbon dioxide wasn't real fun to breath but it really isn't that dangerous, mostly an irritant. However carbon monoxide that is made by converters is poison to humans. But it's ok since it's saving the planet!

[Homeslice]

The last 10 years have in fact been cooling

Do you have a link for that?

Generic statements like that aren't very helpful.

WHAT has been cooling? Ocean temps? Land temps? Air temps?

What part of the globe?

And how many years has there been warming, versus the 10 years that have (allegedly) been cooling? Even if the last 10 years have been CONSISTENTLY cooling one after the other (doubt it), does that prove a start of a new long-term trend? No.

[ericr]

Do you have a link for that?

Generic statements like that aren't very helpful.

WHAT has been cooling? Ocean temps? Land temps? Air temps?

What part of the globe?

And how many years has there been warming, versus the 10 years that have (allegedly) been cooling? Even if the last 10 years have been CONSISTENTLY cooling one after the other (doubt it), does that prove a start of a new long-term trend? No.

Don't have a link, don't even remember exactly where I saw it because it was another report that didn't get much attention. It was the overall global temperature, I think they consider all aspects, I'm not sure of that though.

The last warming cycle stated in the 80's, the last 10 yrs have had a cooler average temp, I'd say that consistant ;)

Didn't say the cooling was a long term trend either, but then the warming hasn't been either. The 70's were the coolest in a hundred years or more if I remember right, and that's why they feared an ice age.There are 10 yr weather cycles and there are 100 yr cycles, 20, 50 etc. A farmers almanac will show that and is also quite accurate on it's yearly predictions. The people that wrote it studied the patterns of history instead of looking for a reason man was effecting the global temps to explain cycles that have been going for hundreds of years. They first published it in 1818 I think, long before modern weather forcasting.

[ericr]

Homeslice, here's a link for you...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14504

[Avatard]

Global warming is a farce. Anyone with a basic science clue can realize that it is pure hype.

Bravo to the hacker. I hate panic-mongers.

[Homeslice]

Homeslice, here's a link for you...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14504

The website dedicated to 'exposing' the New World Order agenda? Thanks, but that's not a source I'll be paying much attention to.

[Smittie61984]

The website dedicated to 'exposing' the New World Order agenda? Thanks, but that's not a source I'll be paying much attention to.

I'll check something credible like Current News or the Huffington Post.

[goof2]

Do you have a link for that?

Generic statements like that aren't very helpful.

WHAT has been cooling? Ocean temps? Land temps? Air temps?

What part of the globe?

And how many years has there been warming, versus the 10 years that have (allegedly) been cooling? Even if the last 10 years have been CONSISTENTLY cooling one after the other (doubt it), does that prove a start of a new long-term trend? No.

The fact that these researchers have felt the need to "modify" their own data would indicate the actual data they have generated doesn't show the long-term trend they have been selling either.:shrug:

[Homeslice]

The fact that these researchers have felt the need to "modify" their own data would indicate the actual data they have generated doesn't show the long-term trend they have been selling either.:shrug:
Maybe.

[Avatard]

The fact that these researchers have felt the need to "modify" their own data would indicate the actual data they have generated doesn't show the long-term trend they have been selling either.:shrug:

Because any twit can tell you that the sun eventually burns out...and that a cooling trend, not a warming one is what awaits this planet (and any other fucking one) in the long term.

The warming spikes, just like the hole in the ozone (now fucking gone) are merely transient. All it takes is a few sun flares to skew towards a "warming trend" for the year, but overall to suggest any trend other than cooling is fucking ridiculous.

I'm 48, going on 49 in a few weeks. Anyone my age remember all the textbooks in school spoke of the coming ice age?

:lol

Global warming my ass.

[101lifts2]

....I'm not saying large metro areas dont suffer from all the traffic in them, they do. But if you shut all the cars down it would clear up in a matter of days, not years. There have also been more health problems since they started using cats on vehicles that no one will admit to. Yes, carbon dioxide wasn't real fun to breath but it really isn't that dangerous, mostly an irritant. However carbon monoxide that is made by converters is poison to humans. But it's ok since it's saving the planet!


Three-way cats convert HC, NOx, CO and NMHC to H2O and CO2, not the other way around. HCs and COs are harmful to humans and NOx and NMHC are harmful to the ozone. Converters are a good thing as with fuel injection control, but when you start to regulate more stringent emissions, you end up polluting more due to producing more emission contrtol parts (see diesel exhaust fluid injection).

[mutley]

Did the sun poles flip about a month ago ( these dome and glom) ha ha. when we all line up the uk will be on the equator and i dont like the sun .

[Homeslice]

Because any twit can tell you that the sun eventually burns out...and that a cooling trend, not a warming one is what awaits this planet (and any other fucking one) in the long term.

Ah yes, something that will happen 5-6 billion years from now is what we should be worried about. Gotcha.

Especially since none of that will happen until AFTER the sun has gone red giant and incinerated all life on Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Life_cycle

[Avatard]

Yeah, it's a wee bit far off (red giant phase)...to be sure. But to suggest a warming trend in the interim that is anything beyond a statistical blip 'till then is absurd.

Solar flares simply have far more to do with the Earth's statistical blips in warming (and cooling) than anything we can do here on the surface. We tend to make ourselves a bit too self-important. I'm with Carlin on this one; when it's all over, and humans are gone from this planet, the Earth will shake us off like a bad cold.

[ericr]

Three-way cats convert HC, NOx, CO and NMHC to H2O and CO2, not the other way around. HCs and COs are harmful to humans and NOx and NMHC are harmful to the ozone. Converters are a good thing as with fuel injection control, but when you start to regulate more stringent emissions, you end up polluting more due to producing more emission contrtol parts (see diesel exhaust fluid injection).

Yeah, I get a little dyslexic at times, got it backwards ;)

[goof2]

It looks like things are continuing to get worse for the University of East Anglia. They are now admitting that they threw away most of their raw temperature data.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece

[Smittie61984]

It looks like things are continuing to get worse for the University of East Anglia. They are now admitting that they threw away most of their raw temperature data.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece

I bet Rupert Murdoch broke in himself and forced them to throw it away by threatning to kill kittens and babies.

[fasternyou929]

but when I was a kid there was a global cooling scare going on for a while. Scientists and "experts" were convinced that we were headed towards another ice age.:lol:

:lol: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34242705/?GT1=43001

[Amber Lamps]

:lol: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34242705/?GT1=43001

Hmmmm.... I wonder if they found fossil evidence of SUVs as well....:lol: