Electrical question

[tommymac]

Well my futura shit the bed on me and stranded me at the hospital.

LMK what you guys think it could be. Was riding to work alst night. Was in the high 40's low 50's and no precip. I rode about 25 miles and all was fine. I was comming up to a light and it turned yellow so I gunned it ot make the light. Dont think I hit the limiter or anything. I then notice my dash lights are dim/flickering (apparently the futuras have dashboard problems bout I had been fine up to now) so I make it the last few blocks to work and alls fine.

At 4am I go outside and turn the key and the dash lights up fine so I figure cool alls well. I leave work to head to the other job and the damn thing wont turn over. I have a freind jump staret it and it fires up so I figure alls good again. I make it 3 blocks and see the dash acting up again, I figure ok whatever I will deal with it tonight. Well so much for that I go 2 more blocks and the bike sputters and dies.

So now I dont know whats going on, since the dash lights up I know that works and it mus tbe something going to the dash thats the problem. So far I checked the fuses and they were fine. I cant start pulling anything else apart untill tonight or tomorrow when I ge tthe bike home.

I am a moron with electronics so if anyone has any insight please let me know.

Tom

[Trip]

Sounds like a battery, get it checked/replaced

[askmrjesus]

Sounds like a battery, get it checked/replaced

That would be the obvious place to start.

Step 1. Put a meter on the battery. Anything less than 12V, put it on a charger and proceed to step two.

Step 2. Check the voltage drop at startup. Put the meter on the batt, and hit the start button. If it drops more than 2-3 Volts, batt is probably fubar.

Step 3. Check output from stator. Jump the bike to get it running. Put the meter back on the batt, and measure the output while reving the motor. Should be 13.5 or higher. If not, bike is not charging the batt.

Step 4. Report back, and we'll talk about voltage regulators, (if need be).

JC

[tommymac]

That would be the obvious place to start.

Step 1. Put a meter on the battery. Anything less than 12V, put it on a charger and proceed to step two.

Step 2. Check the voltage drop at startup. Put the meter on the batt, and hit the start button. If it drops more than 2-3 Volts, batt is probably fubar.

Step 3. Check output from stator. Jump the bike to get it running. Put the meter back on the batt, and measure the output while reving the motor. Should be 13.5 or higher. If not, bike is not charging the batt.

Step 4. Report back, and we'll talk about voltage regulators, (if need be).

JC

Anything but the voltage regulator, that is the major problem child on the futuras. I have gone through a few on this bike and finally bought an aftermarket one from a guy on the af1 site that everyone uses and all had been prety good.

Theres a problem with it melting the connectors which finally caught up to me so a freind helped me eliminate the connectors and soldered the wites together directly and the bike has been fine for quite a while with this set up.

Now pardon the ignorance but why the battery? something with a sudden surge from me whacking the throttle wide open?

[Trip]

Anything but the voltage regulator, that is the major problem child on the futuras. I have gone through a few on this bike and finally bought an aftermarket one from a guy on the af1 site that everyone uses and all had been prety good.

Theres a problem with it melting the connectors which finally caught up to me so a freind helped me eliminate the connectors and soldered the wites together directly and the bike has been fine for quite a while with this set up.

Now pardon the ignorance but why the battery? something with a sudden surge from me whacking the throttle wide open?

Interesting little tid bit to leave out there. Sounds like this bike is a big ball of fun in the electrical world.

The problems you describe, just fit a dying battery issue, hence why AMJ said it was obvious place to start. They don't last forever and need replacing.

[Rider]

Sounds like something in your dash is shorting out since it is intermittent. Check all wiring for worn wire insulation and make sure the wires aren't rubbing the frame.

All this of course AFTER you verify that the battery/stator are in good condition.

[Cutty72]

park it, ride the Buell.

[tommymac]

park it, ride the Buell.

Sound advice :)

Tom

[askmrjesus]

Now pardon the ignorance but why the battery? something with a sudden surge from me whacking the throttle wide open?

Let me break this down in ER terms for you.

Guy comes in with chest pains. Do you send him to surgery for a triple bypass, or take his vitals first?

You have to make sure the "patient" has blood pressure (battery) and a pulse (charging) before you start tearing into shit.

Rider could be right, but it could also be that you have a bad ground, as this can often manifest itself as "flickering lights", or other strange gremlins.

Could also be that you have a bad ground in the dash. That's what I would look for next. Get a wiring diagram, and track down all the grounds.

Do the simple shit first. You can always fuck it up completely later on. :lol:

JC

[tommymac]

Let me break this down in ER terms for you.

Guy comes in with chest pains. Do you send him to surgery for a triple bypass, or take his vitals first?

You have to make sure the "patient" has blood pressure (battery) and a pulse (charging) before you start tearing into shit.

Rider could be right, but it could also be that you have a bad ground, as this can often manifest itself as "flickering lights", or other strange gremlins.

Could also be that you have a bad ground in the dash. That's what I would look for next. Get a wiring diagram, and track down all the grounds.

Do the simple shit first. You can always fuck it up completely later on. :lol:

JC


Makes sense, guys on the aprilia site have said start with the simple shit first and were usualy right whereas I am thinking its some sort of exotic problem. I always figure its some bizzare obscure thing because it happens to me :lol:

Tom

[Amber Lamps]

I'd re-check your buddy's soldering job if it were me... then I would look for a loose battery connection at the battery or at the junction under/behind the seat. It probably gets shook loose as you go down the road. Also, the starter lead sounds good too. Last, I'd look for and check the ground wire from the battery to the frame, if you have one.

I don't know if you have it already but...http://www.repairmanualclub.com/motomanuals/index.php?dlid=203

[tommymac]

That would be the obvious place to start.

Step 1. Put a meter on the battery. Anything less than 12V, put it on a charger and proceed to step two.

Step 2. Check the voltage drop at startup. Put the meter on the batt, and hit the start button. If it drops more than 2-3 Volts, batt is probably fubar.

Step 3. Check output from stator. Jump the bike to get it running. Put the meter back on the batt, and measure the output while reving the motor. Should be 13.5 or higher. If not, bike is not charging the batt.

Step 4. Report back, and we'll talk about voltage regulators, (if need be).

JC

Step 3 it is. Charged up the battery overnight and the bike fired right up. it was between12.25 and 13 with the bike off. Went to 12.33 at idle and prety much stayed there, reved it up to 4k and didnt budge, it should be up around 14 something I believe so tom will be ordering yet another voltage regulator today. Turn around is about a week with the guy I deal with so that may be that for the year which mean I will at least get to put more miles on the buell.

[marko138]

Interesting little tid bit to leave out there. Sounds like this bike is a big ball of fun in the electrical world.

The problems you describe, just fit a dying battery issue, hence why AMJ said it was obvious place to start. They don't last forever and need replacing.

According to Tigger they do.

[askmrjesus]

Step 3 it is. Charged up the battery overnight and the bike fired right up. it was between12.25 and 13 with the bike off. Went to 12.33 at idle and prety much stayed there, reved it up to 4k and didnt budge, it should be up around 14 something I believe so tom will be ordering yet another voltage regulator today. Turn around is about a week with the guy I deal with so that may be that for the year which mean I will at least get to put more miles on the buell.

Hang on, let's try something else first.

The book I have (2003 ETV Mille Factory Man.) shows a test circuit- um, fuck it, I'll just scan it.

Ok, here it is:

Fuck. Hang on....

[askmrjesus]

Ok-

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk114/hunter900ie/mille.jpg

Right, where was I? Since you have an aftermarket VR, the values in this book may not be the same as what you need, so, call the dude and ask him what the resistance values are for the unit you have, then do the test.

JC

[tommymac]

I have the futura shop manual so that should be in there and am 99% sure it is, just too lazy to go look right now :lol:

Another guy suggested checking the alternator so I will do that tonight since I need an extra pair of hands. So Iwill hold off till tomorrow before ordering anything.

[askmrjesus]

I have the futura shop manual

NOW you tell me!

While you're at it, look up the test for the diode module (should be under the seat).

JC

[Amber Lamps]

According to Tigger they do.

Hahaha!!! It all depends on what your definition of "forever" is... for me, it's about 4 years.:lol:

[tommymac]

Ok found that in the manual is on the left side by the ecu. My volt meter does not have a diode tester in it so I would have to rig up abattery with a bulb to test it.

Tom

[No Worries]

My 79 Suzuki had a separate regulator and rectifier. When they went, I got an aftermarket R/R. Still wouldn't charge, even though the stator checked correctly. That's when I took the ground wire from the new R/R off the frame and connected it directly to the negative terminal of the battery. Has been charging perfect for over two years.

[askmrjesus]

Ok found that in the manual is on the left side by the ecu. My volt meter does not have a diode tester in it so I would have to rig up abattery with a bulb to test it.

Tom

A "Diode tester" is just the Ohm meter function of "most" meters. The symbol looks like this:

I wouldn't bother with light bulbs. You can get a decent tester for $15.00

JC

[tommymac]

A "Diode tester" is just the Ohm meter function of "most" meters. The symbol looks like this:

I wouldn't bother with light bulbs. You can get a decent tester for $15.00

JC

Oh ok so I am good then.

Tom

[marko138]

Hahaha!!! It all depends on what your definition of "forever" is... for me, it's about 4 years.:lol:

I've never had one die shy of 4, sometimes 5 years. :cheers:

[Gas Man]

Step 3 it is. Charged up the battery overnight and the bike fired right up. it was between12.25 and 13 with the bike off. Went to 12.33 at idle and prety much stayed there, reved it up to 4k and didnt budge, it should be up around 14 something I believe so tom will be ordering yet another voltage regulator today. Turn around is about a week with the guy I deal with so that may be that for the year which mean I will at least get to put more miles on the buell.

Check the stator

I have the futura shop manual so that should be in there and am 99% sure it is, just too lazy to go look right now :lol:

Another guy suggested checking the alternator so I will do that tonight since I need an extra pair of hands. So Iwill hold off till tomorrow before ordering anything.


Its called a stator. And you check it in AC volts. The diode (voltage regulator, also sometimes called a rectifier) converts that AC voltage to DC voltage.

Further, VR's can be tricky. I find the best thing... establish the battery holds a charge. Do the idle test of volts as you did at the battery. If fail, test the AC output of the stator and if it passes then the only thing left is the VR. Process of elimination. I have done it many times this way.

[tommymac]

Check the stator




Its called a stator. And you check it in AC volts. The diode (voltage regulator, also sometimes called a rectifier) converts that AC voltage to DC voltage.

Further, VR's can be tricky. I find the best thing... establish the battery holds a charge. Do the idle test of volts as you did at the battery. If fail, test the AC output of the stator and if it passes then the only thing left is the VR. Process of elimination. I have done it many times this way.

Thats prety much the direction I am going with all this, I am going to recheck the battery again today to make sure its still holding a charge. The stator I will try to check tonight since I need an extra set of hands to do that, but given the bikes reputation Iam leaning towards the voltage regulator.

A guy on af1 already offered to sell me one off of his old bike that hes parting out, not sure if I will go with that or just buy the aftermarket one.

[No Worries]

I wonder how many R/R's and stators were ever replaced because the wiring/connectors were bad. Someone changes a R/R by disconnecting and connecting the wires. Then the battery charges. Was the R/R bad or did disconnecting and connecting the wiring fix the problem?

By the way, Aprilia Falco's are known to have problems with the sidestand safety switch, and they aren't the only brand with this problem. And it doesn't matter if the frame is steel or aluminum, the ground connectors always have corrosion.