HOA vs 90y.o. medal of honor vet over flag

[RACER X]

Decorated Veteran, 90, Fights to Raise Flag in His Yard

Thursday , December 03, 2009

FC1
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A veteran of three wars who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor is now facing an unlikely enemy — his neighbors.

Col. Van T. Barfoot, 90, has raised the Stars and Stripes every day at sunrise and lowered them every day at sunset since he served in the U.S. Army. But on Tuesday he received a letter from the law firm that represents his homeowners' association, ordering him to remove the flagpole from his Richmond, Va. yard by 5 p.m. on Friday or face "legal action."

SLIDESHOW: Medal of Honor Winner Col. Van Barfoot

The homoeowners' association at Sussex Square community told Barfoot that the freestanding, 21-foot flagpole that he put up in September violates the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines.

Barfoot had sought permission to install the pole shortly after he moved into the community — a complex of townhouses where the grounds are community property — last June. The board denied his request in July.

But Barfoot and his family say there is no provision in Sussex Square's rules that forbids erecting flagpoles. And for Barfoot, that's a cause worth fighting for.

"There's never been a day in my life or a place I've lived in my life that you couldn't fly the American flag," Barfoot said in an interview with the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

In a statement released last night, the association sought to defend its position against a growing chorus of outrage.

"This is not about the American flag. This is about a flagpole," reads the statement from the association, which insists that Barfoot directly violated its board's July ruling.

"Col. Barfoot is free to display the American flag in conformity with the neighborhood rules and restrictions. We are hopeful that Col. Barfoot will comply."

The statement reminded the public that many American flags hang from homes in the Sussex Square community, and that the board members object only to Barfoot's freestanding flagpole.

But Barfoot says he has always flown the flag from a height: "Where I've been, fighting wars ... military installations, parades, everything else, the flag is vertical. And I've done it that way since I was in the Army," Barfoot told the paper.

Barfoot is one of the country's last living World War II veterans who received the Medal of Honor. He also served in the Korean War and the Vietnam War and earned a Purple Heart. In WWII, Barfoot showed his mettle in Carano, Italy, where he single-handedly destroyed a set of German machine gun nests, killed eight enemy soldiers, took 17 prisoners and stared down a tank before destroying it and killing its crew — all in a single day. Exhausted by his herculean efforts, he still managed to move two of his wounded men 1,700 yards to safety.

"Sgt. Barfoot's extraordinary heroism, demonstration of magnificent valor, and aggressive determination in the face of pointblank fire are a perpetual inspiration to his fellow soldiers," reads the official citation for his Medal of Honor.

Barfoot's resolve is now once again being tested.

"I've flown the flag at my home as long as I can remember," said Barfoot, who lived in rural Amelia County before moving to suburban Richmond. "This is the first time in the last 36 years that I've been unable to put my flag up on the same pole, the same staff and take it down when it's time to come down.

"I don't have any qualms with [the board's] authority, but the thing about it is that I cannot get enough conversation out of them where we can try to work out a solution," Barfoot said.

Neighbors largely have expressed their support, but he realizes that ultimately it's up to the nine-member association board whether to grant an exception to the rules.

"Emotional torture is what they've done to my father," said his daughter, Margaret Nicholls. "He has lost sleep, he worries about it constantly. He just doesn't understand. He thinks that if it's on his property they can't tell him what to do."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579147,00.html



GRRRRRRR

[Apoc]

another reason I would NEVER buy a home in an area with a HOA.

[derf]

another reason I would NEVER buy a home in an area with a HOA.

Yup. And what sucks is that the guy has to go through this.

[Smittie61984]

another reason I would NEVER buy a home in an area with a HOA.

One thing I like about HOAs is they are the perfect example of what happens when you give a dumbass power. They are like mini-politicians. Anyone who could run a HOA well, would never take the job (probably because they have a job).

I'm about to head to class so no time to read the whole thing but if he bought a house in there and signed a contract saying no flag poles, flags, or pink kittens then he should adhere to the rules.

[BobTheBiker]

the HOA needs to leave this country, clearly they have no appreciation for the man's sacrifices for their rights. if you've got a problem with the US flag, you're gonna piss off a LOT of patriotic americans, and a LOT MORE veterans that fought for us. just common sense.

[Tmall]

He should get a 50 foot flag laid out on his lawn for a few weeks. See if they'll reconsider after that.

[Kaneman]

HOA's should be outlawed.

[101lifts2]

I live in a condo with an HOA...they generally suck and are out to get money from homeowners. When I lived in MI, they told me I had to park my motorcycle off property unless I wanted to change the "bi-laws". When I asked how do I change ur "bi-laws", their answer was pay 5,000 bucks it can be changed. lol

Turned out the homo president was pulling money from the homeowners dues for other shit.

[Papa_Complex]

Manufactured outrage.

[karl_1052]

He placed a flagpole on land he does not own. It is a condo. He signed a contract when he moved in. He has no right to the land.

Now if he put it on his house and they bitched, he would have my sympathies.

Condo/HOAs suck the dirty goats ass.

[SteveP]

He should get a 50 foot flag laid out on his lawn for a few weeks. See if they'll reconsider after that.

A decorated war veteran laying a flag on the ground?

:wtfru:


I agree that HOA are the devil. I rented a house with an HOA once and the whole neighborhood creeped me out.

[BobTheBiker]

Yeah...... lay the flag out on the ground? no boy scout or war veteran would dishonor the flag that way. I just cant see a man that probably grew up saluting as the flag is raised daily doing that.

[azoomm]

Manufactured rage is right.

Don't like it? Don't live somewhere with an HOA

[z06boy]

I feel bad for the guy...I am a veteren...I love America and I love what the flag represents BUT it is not his property...right ? He can put a flag on a pole attached to his house but not a 21 foot pole on community property. :idk:

I personally would not have a problem with him doing this if I lived there BUT there was an HOA with rules when he moved in there so they are well within their rights imho.

I wish they would make an exception to be honest BUT they are not obligated to.

[Tmall]

A decorated war veteran laying a flag on the ground?

:wtfru:




Touche sir.. Touche..

How can HOAs legally have a leg to stand on?

[Particle Man]

He placed a flagpole on land he does not own. It is a condo. He signed a contract when he moved in. He has no right to the land.

Now if he put it on his house and they bitched, he would have my sympathies.

Condo/HOAs suck the dirty goats ass.

I have to agree with this - it sucks that they won't allow it (and IMO they are dumb for not allowing it) but he did move in to a place with a HOA...

Touche sir.. Touche..

How can HOAs legally have a leg to stand on?

If it's in the contract then that's the legal leg to stand on. If not, then it sucks to be them.

[Rider]

Our HOA allows flag poles. Sounds like this guy picked a shitty place to move in to. It pays to ask questions about the community rules before you buy. I'm not saying the HOA is right, those people are fucking whacked, but he should have done more homework on the HOA and their bogus rules.

[z06boy]

Touche sir.. Touche..

How can HOAs legally have a leg to stand on?

Because it's written into the neighborhood coventants/bylaws that you sign before you purchase the place. :idk:

That way if you don't agree...you don't move in.

[Tmall]

I have to agree with this - it sucks that they won't allow it (and IMO they are dumb for not allowing it) but he did move in to a place with a HOA...



If it's in the contract then that's the legal leg to stand on. If not, then it sucks to be them.

What I'm saying is, how can they possibly have jurisdiction? How is it legal? It's like another level of governance.

[Particle Man]

What I'm saying is, how can they possibly have jurisdiction? How is it legal? It's like another level of governance.

If they own the land it's private property and they have that right.

Do you allow someone to build something on your front lawn without your permission? If they did, you'd probably remove it, right? And you'd be within your rights as the land owner.

[z06boy]

What I'm saying is, how can they possibly have jurisdiction? How is it legal? It's like another level of governance.

It's the flagpole...not the flag and it's their property...pretty simple.

[Tmall]

It's the flagpole...not the flag and it's their property...pretty simple.

Now we're getting somewhere.

When you live in a HOA it's not your property? I understand you technically never own property. But, in a HOA there are how many "owners"? You,the hoa, the city, the state, then the feds?

[z06boy]

Now we're getting somewhere.

When you live in a HOA it's not your property? I understand you technically never own property. But, in a HOA there are how many "owners"? You,the hoa, the city, the state, then the feds?

Not in this guys case...it states it's "community property"...you know like a shared area out in front of several units.

Now in a neighborhood/subdivision with single family homes...yes you own the property BUT if they have an HOA they can still tell you what you can construct etc. which sucks even worse than this guys situation imho.

[Apoc]

Now we're getting somewhere.

When you live in a HOA it's not your property? I understand you technically never own property. But, in a HOA there are how many "owners"? You,the hoa, the city, the state, then the feds?

Well, in this case, its a condo, so the property belongs to whoever developed/owns the condo's.

But, what about when your BUYING a home in a community with a HOA, how can they say they have any legal right to your property???

I realize there has to be laws, so people dont turn lawns into dumps and paint there house hot pink, but the city officials should deal with that, not the idiots down the street.

[shmike]

Now we're getting somewhere.

When you live in a HOA it's not your property? I understand you technically never own property. But, in a HOA there are how many "owners"? You,the hoa, the city, the state, then the feds?

It is a townhome, similar to an apartment.

He owns his UNIT but not the ground or the building surrounding it.

He can put the flag pole in his living room if he wants, he can't put it on someone else's property.

Barfoot had sought permission to install the pole shortly after he moved into the community — a complex of townhouses where the grounds are community property — last June. The board denied his request in July.

[Particle Man]

I realize there has to be laws, so people dont turn lawns into dumps and paint there house hot pink, but the city officials should deal with that, not the idiots down the street.

I drive past a house that's grape purple every day. Those laws ain't workin' :lol:

[Tmall]

Now I get it. :lol:

[Rider]

I drive past a house that's grape purple every day. Those laws ain't workin' :lol:

Paint it for them......at 12am with a paintball gun.:lol

[Particle Man]

Paint it for them......at 12am with a paintball gun.:lol

:lol:

[z06boy]

He can do this from how I read it....

http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cropped-flag-white-house.jpg


But not this...

http://profiles.seniorlifestyle.com/ADMIN/Resources/imagegallery/C-K/Senior%20Lifestyles/Baywinde/flagpole%20view.jpg

[zlicius]

hey cannucks, are there no HOAs in CA ?

[Papa_Complex]

We have condo associations, HOAs, and neighbourhood organizations here too. I remember, not too long ago, hearing about a neighbourhood just north of Brampton in which a home owner was having difficulty painting his house.

..... bright pink.

[Apoc]

hey cannucks, are there no HOAs in CA ?

We do have them up here, but they wouldnt get away with petty shit like this.

[shmike]

We do have them up here, but they wouldnt get away with petty shit like this.

Petty?

The guy erected a structure on property he didn't own.

[Papa_Complex]

Petty?

The guy built a structure on property he didn't own.

Ignore the man behind the curtain. The HOA would win up here too. A contract is a contract, and you can't just randomly build on someone else's property.

..... unless you're an Aboriginal.

[Apoc]

Petty?

The guy built a structure on property he didn't own.

Petty....


But seriously, take it any way you want. We aren't wound even half as tight as you guys south of the border are. We realize that its just a flagpole. Not a huge, pink, abstract art sculpture on the front lawn.

[z06boy]

Petty....


But seriously, take it any way you want. We aren't wound even half as tight as you guys south of the border are. We realize that its just a flagpole. Not a huge, pink, abstract art sculpture on the front lawn.

:lol: :lol:

My that's a wide brush !!

http://www.paintbrushesandrollers.com/images/products/231335.jpg

[Apoc]

:lol: :lol:

My that's a wide brush !!



Its also very true...

We may only be seperated by an imaginary line, but we are very, very different nations in attitude.

[karl_1052]

Now we're getting somewhere.

When you live in a HOA it's not your property? I understand you technically never own property. But, in a HOA there are how many "owners"? You,the hoa, the city, the state, then the feds?

Just like condo corps in canada.
They own the land and the outside of the house, and you own the interior.

[karl_1052]

Ignore the man behind the curtain. The HOA would win up here too. A contract is a contract, and you can't just randomly build on someone else's property.

..... unless you're an Aboriginal.

WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!!

I can do whatever I want!:rockwoot:

[Apoc]

Just like condo corps in canada.
They own the land and the outside of the house, and you own the interior.


Hard to say you even own the inside, cuz you can pay your condo cash, and if you dont pay your condo fee's, they can still kick you the fuck out, from what I understand..

I've never seen the benefit of a condo apart from yard work and snow removal :shrug: and both of those things are cheaper than condo fee's anyway.

[Papa_Complex]

WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!!

I can do whatever I want!:rockwoot:

So why don't I ever see you on the 401, when it's closed with burning railroad ties near Shannonville?

[karl_1052]

So why don't I ever see you on the 401, when it's closed with burning railroad ties near Shannonville?

cause unlike my cousins, I have a job.

:lol

[z06boy]

Its also very true...

We may only be seperated by an imaginary line, but we are very, very different nations in attitude.

BS...everyone in Canada does not have the same thoughts on every single subject and the same applies to the US.

That is an ignorant statement for you to even make...period.

Funny how this guy has his supporters...wonder where they are from ? :wtfru:

[Papa_Complex]

BS...everyone in Canada does not have the same thoughts on every single subject and the same applies to the US.

That is an ignorant statement for you to even make...period.

Funny how this guy has his supporters...wonder where they are from ? :wtfru:

Of course we do. We're all one big socialist hive-mind.

Landru.... Guide us!

[z06boy]

Of course we do. We're all one big socialist hive-mind.

Landru.... Guide us!

:lol: You and Apoc aren't even agreeing on the HOA/flag issue.

[goof2]

Well, in this case, its a condo, so the property belongs to whoever developed/owns the condo's.

But, what about when your BUYING a home in a community with a HOA, how can they say they have any legal right to your property???

I realize there has to be laws, so people dont turn lawns into dumps and paint there house hot pink, but the city officials should deal with that, not the idiots down the street.

When you are buying a home in an HOA community you do own the land, but there are covenants that restrict what you can and cannot do with it. Think of it like an existing easement a utility company has on a piece of land. The land may transfer from one owner to another but the easement continues to exist.

With HOAs it is similar. They retain the ability to control what is set forth in their covenants. When the property is transferred it is something the prospective buyer must agree to in order to make the purchase. The buyer is supposed to be able to get a copy of the covenants prior to making the purchase.

But seriously, take it any way you want. We aren't wound even half as tight as you guys south of the border are. We realize that its just a flagpole. Not a huge, pink, abstract art sculpture on the front lawn.

Your neighbor asks to make a change on your property, you say no, but the neighbor does it anyway. You are saying you would be cool with it because you are Canadian?

[Apoc]

BS...everyone in Canada does not have the same thoughts on every single subject and the same applies to the US.

That is an ignorant statement for you to even make...period.

Funny how this guy has his supporters...wonder where they are from ? :wtfru:


Where the fuck did I say everyone in Canada has the same opinion on everything? I said we have very different attitudes. We are way more laid back. Your putting words in my mouth.

Accept it or dont, we are very, very different from the USA. And we dont want to be anything like you guys...

[Apoc]

Your neighbor asks to make a change on your property, you say no, but the neighbor does it anyway. You are saying you would be cool with it because you are Canadian?

Ugh... no, thats not what I said at all. I said were not as uptight as you guys south of the border.

And I have never heard of people being stopped from making reasonable changes to their land in Canada. Read the key word, REASONABLE. A flagpole is reasonable.

[Papa_Complex]

:lol: You and Apoc aren't even agreeing on the HOA/flag issue.

We're lulling you into a false sense of security.

Oh, crap! I wasn't supposed to tell you that. My bad.

[shmike]

Ugh... no, thats not what I said at all. I said were not as uptight as you guys south of the border.

And I have never heard of people being stopped from making reasonable changes to their land in Canada. Read the key word, REASONABLE. A flagpole is reasonable.

The question isn't about reason, it is about making changes to land YOU DO NOT OWN.

What are you having difficulty understanding?

[goof2]

Ugh... no, thats not what I said at all. I said were not as uptight as you guys south of the border.

And I have never heard of people being stopped from making reasonable changes to their land in Canada. Read the key word, REASONABLE. A flagpole is reasonable.

You forgot another key word, THEIR. It isn't this guy's land. He made the change to someone else's land. I didn't phrase the question that way accidentally.

[Apoc]

The question isn't about reason, it is about making changes to land YOU DO NOT OWN.

What are you having difficulty understanding?

Oh, i understand that, my point was for a home you own, on your own land. Condo's are another story, and if you scroll back through the thread, you'll see where I said that I understood you do not own the land your condo is on.

Well, in this case, its a condo, so the property belongs to whoever developed/owns the condo's.

My comments are about HOA's in general, not condos.

I would never own a condo just for these reasons, its never really yours...

[karl_1052]

Obama is canadian.

:D

[z06boy]

Where the fuck did I say everyone in Canada has the same opinion on everything? I said we have very different attitudes. We are way more laid back. Your putting words in my mouth.

Accept it or dont, we are very, very different from the USA. And we dont want to be anything like you guys...

Ok the subject is changing a little here...let me back up...

You said...

Petty....


But seriously, take it any way you want. We aren't wound even half as tight as you guys south of the border are. We realize that its just a flagpole. Not a huge, pink, abstract art sculpture on the front lawn.
__________________

...and I said you're using a wide brush there.

...and then you said...

Its also very true...

We may only be seperated by an imaginary line, but we are very, very different nations in attitude.

...and I called BS about all Canadians having the same thought on this subject or all Americans...I'm talking about on this subject of flagpoles and HOA's.

You and PC aren't even agreeing and many Americans don't agree ON THIS SUBJECT either...so it's not a north and south of the border thing as I see it.



Yes I agree that our nations may have a different attitude about things in general but I'm talking about the topic of this thread only. :idk:

We're lulling you into a false sense of security.

Oh, crap! I wasn't supposed to tell you that. My bad.

:rofl: :rofl:

[Apoc]

Yes I agree that our nations may have a different attitude about things in general but I'm talking about the topic of this thread only. :idk:




then I think we just got wires crossed, because i wasnt trying to say canadians have the same opinion on everything.

[Papa_Complex]

Obama is canadian.

:D

He's too conservative to be Canadian.

(Shhhhhhhhh! Don't narc on the sleeper!!)

[z06boy]

then I think we just got wires crossed, because i wasnt trying to say canadians have the same opinion on everything.

I agree...hey it's the internet...sorry for the misunderstanding...oh yeah it's Friday !! :cheers:

[Apoc]

I agree...hey it's the internet...sorry for the misunderstanding...o yeah it's Friday !! :cheers:

No worries.... If I wasnt sick with the fucking flu, I wouldnt be here arguing anyway :lol:

And, this might not piss me off so much if the guy wasnt an aging war vet :(

[Kaneman]

Give me a break man. The guy fought in three wars and won the goddamn Medal of Honor. He's got more courage in one 90 year old shriveled testicle than 98% of the population. When someone goes to that length to fight for America you let him have a flagpole to display the American flag the right way.

Sure, we get it, the HOA is in the legal right. But they fail at basic decency and common sense.

[Rider]

Give me a break man. The guy fought in three wars and won the goddamn Medal of Honor. He's got more courage in one 90 year old shriveled testicle than 98% of the population. When someone goes to that length to fight for America you let him have a flagpole to display the American flag the right way.

Sure, we get it, the HOA is in the legal right. But they fail at basic decency and common sense.

So you'd be ok if he wanted to put a flag pole in YOUR yard? That's mighty nice of you.

[Papa_Complex]

Give me a break man. The guy fought in three wars and won the goddamn Medal of Honor. He's got more courage in one 90 year old shriveled testicle than 98% of the population. When someone goes to that length to fight for America you let him have a flagpole to display the American flag the right way.

Sure, we get it, the HOA is in the legal right. But they fail at basic decency and common sense.

There are several "right ways" to display a flag. They offered one of them, that is used on consular buildings among other things, that didn't require him breaching his contract with the HOA.

[Apoc]

So you'd be ok if he wanted to put a flag pole in YOUR yard? That's mighty nice of you.


Someone wants to put a flagpole in my yard to hang a Canadian flag from? I'll dig the hole and cement it in place. Especially for a 90 year old war vet.

[Rider]

Someone wants to put a flagpole in my yard to hang a Canadian flag from? I'll dig the hole and cement it in place. Especially for a 90 year old war vet.

Sure you would, because if you really wanted a Canadian flag in your yard you'd already have it there and you wouldn't need a 90 yo war vet to ask you to do it.

[Apoc]

Sure you would, because if you really wanted a Canadian flag in your yard you'd already have it there and you wouldn't need a 90 yo war vet to ask you to do it.

Theres one there already ;)

And it wont be taken down for anyone, not while I still breathe.

[Rider]

Theres one there already ;)

And it wont be taken down for anyone, not while I still breathe.

Fantastic, good for you , but you are missing the point. You can't expect for people to let this guy put a flag pole anywhere he wants. I display the US flag and am proud of it . The point is, I can't expect my neighbors to allow me to hoist a flagpole anywhere in the neighborhood I want on land that does not belong to me. Now I may not have a medal of honor but I have fought in a war but does that give me a right to put a flagpole anywhere I please?

[Apoc]

Fantastic, good for you , but you are missing the point. You can't expect for people to let this guy put a flag pole anywhere he wants. I display the US flag and am proud of it . The point is, I can't expect my neighbors to allow me to hoist a flagpole anywhere in the neighborhood I want on land that does not belong to me. Now I may not have a medal of honor but I have fought in a war but does that give me a right to put a flagpole anywhere I please?

I understand that, and I agree with you.

but you know what? The guy is over 90, he probably REALLY does not understand that. Leave him alone. Request that that the flagpole be taken down after his passing, and leave it at that. Im sure his family would be fine with that.

Its a flagpole, its not unsightly.

[Rider]

I understand that, and I agree with you.

but you know what? The guy is over 90, he probably REALLY does not understand that. Leave him alone. Request that that the flagpole be taken down after his passing, and leave it at that. Im sure his family would be fine with that.

Its a flagpole, its not unsightly.

True but not everyone is as understanding as you and I on that subject.

[Apoc]

True but not everyone is as understanding as you and I on that subject.


Your right.

But maybe those people against it should sit down and realize that, if not for brave men like him, they might have flagpoles with German flags in their yard, and no say about anything, whatsoever, because if they tried to say something, they'd be shot.

[Kaneman]

So you'd be ok if he wanted to put a flag pole in YOUR yard? That's mighty nice of you.

If I lived in a condo and a 90 year old veteran of three wars who earned the Medal of Honor wanted to put a flagpole up in the yard in front of the condos then I would help him dig the hole.

[Rider]

If I lived in a condo and a 90 year old veteran of three wars who earned the Medal of Honor wanted to put a flagpole up in the yard in front of the condos then I would help him dig the hole.

Again, that's mighty nice of you, but don't you think the owner of that land should have some say? I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve a flag... he does.
But WHERE the flag goes up is for the owner of the property to decide. Apoc had a good solution though. Let the guy put up the flag and then tear it down when he passes. Seems like a good compromise but again, it's up the the owner to allow that to happen.

[Kaneman]

Again, that's mighty nice of you, but don't you think the owner of that land should have some say? I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve a flag... he does.
But WHERE the flag goes up is for the owner of the property to decide. Apoc had a good solution though. Let the guy put up the flag and then tear it down when he passes. Seems like a good compromise but again, it's up the the owner to allow that to happen.

I think the owner shouldn't be a dickhole. Pretty simple. In this case the wants of a war veteran outweigh the need for aesthetic perfection.

I'm not even a patriotic guy, but this one is a no-brainer.

[Rider]

I think the owner shouldn't be a dickhole. Pretty simple. In this case the wants of a war veteran outweigh the need for aesthetic perfection.

I'm not even a patriotic guy, but this one is a no-brainer.

So what if this guy wanted to paint a big US flag on your car, you'd let him?

[Kaneman]

So what if this guy wanted to paint a big US flag on your car, you'd let him?

No, that is not a respectful way to display the American flag, especially considering my car is Japanese. Nor is it relevant to this specific case.

[Rider]

No, that is not a respectful way to display the American flag, especially considering my car is Japanese. Nor is it relevant to this specific case.

Sure it's relevant. You're saying it's ok for him to put a flag anywhere he wants. What if he wanted to hang a flag from your stereo antenna? Would that be ok?

[Kaneman]

Sure it's relevant. You're saying it's ok for him to put a flag anywhere he wants. What if he wanted to hang a flag from your stereo antenna? Would that be ok?

Not what I said actually. I said it is ok for him to mount a flag pole in the front yard of his condo and fly the American flag from it. I also said the HOA is comprised of dickholes, and I stand by that. If they weren't dickholes, they wouldn't be on an HOA.

No, I would not allow him to hang the flag from my stereo antenna because A) That is not the proper way to display the American flag and B) The antenna would likely break under the weight of a blowing flag as they do not make suitable flag poles.

[shmike]

Not what I said actually. I said it is ok for him to mount a flag pole in the front yard of his condo and fly the American flag from it. I also said the HOA is comprised of dickholes, and I stand by that. If they weren't dickholes, they wouldn't be on an HOA.

No, I would not allow him to hang the flag from my stereo antenna because A) That is not the proper way to display the American flag and B) The antenna would likely break under the weight of a blowing flag as they do not make suitable flag poles.

You said:

I think the owner shouldn't be a dickhole. Pretty simple. In this case the wants of a war veteran outweigh the need for aesthetic perfection.

Rider's question is totally relevant.

If this man wanted to weld a flag pole to the top of your Japanese car, would you allow him?

[Papa_Complex]

You know what being a 90 year old war vet buys him? Being gently reminded that the property is in fact not his and that he has a contractual obligation, prior to having him served and reamed in court.

[Rider]

Not what I said actually. I said it is ok for him to mount a flag pole in the front yard of his condo and fly the American flag from it. I also said the HOA is comprised of dickholes, and I stand by that. If they weren't dickholes, they wouldn't be on an HOA.

No, I would not allow him to hang the flag from my stereo antenna because A) That is not the proper way to display the American flag and B) The antenna would likely break under the weight of a blowing flag as they do not make suitable flag poles.

You mean, if it wasn't for dickholes, there wouldn't be a need for an HOA.

[shmike]

You know what being a 90 year old war vet buys him? Being gently reminded that the property is in fact not his and that he has a contractual obligation, prior to having him served and reamed in court.

And "Sir".

He should be called "Sir".

[Kaneman]

If this man wanted to weld a flag pole to the top of your Japanese car, would you allow him?

No, that is not the proper way to display the American flag and would cause permanent damage to my vehicle and affect its functionality.

You mean, if it wasn't for dickholes, there wouldn't be a need for an HOA.

No, I meant that HOAs are comprised of dickholes. More specifically a dickhole has a personality that draws them to "serve" on an HOA.

You know what being a 90 year old war vet buys him? Being gently reminded that the property is in fact not his and that he has a contractual obligation, prior to having him served and reamed in court.

Yes, unfortunately that is the reality of it.

[shmike]

No, that is not the proper way to display the American flag and would cause permanent damage to my vehicle and affect its functionality.

Dickhole.

[Kaneman]

Dickhole.

No comprende.

[Papa_Complex]

And "Sir".

He should be called "Sir".

Absolutely. He should be treated with respect but, and here's the point that some people don't seem to be getting, HELD TO HIS OBLIGATIONS.

[z06boy]

Well here's a twist. :lol:

The basic principle still applies...flagpoles are not approved by the HOA BUT it is NOT a condo/townhome and it IS his property.

It is a single family home and it is in HIS front yard.

It is NOT a common area as previously thought.

The HOA is still within their rights here...bottom line. :idk:

I do wish they would just let him keep his flagpole.

I served 4 1/2 years with the US Marine Corps and I do love the flag and my country BUT when you move in to a neighborhood governed by an HOA...you are obligated to follow the rules. :idk:

Link to actual story with video...

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/POLEGAT02_20091202-091201/309031/P0/

[shmike]

Well here's a twist. :lol:

The basic principle still applies...flagpoles are not approved by the HOA BUT it is NOT a condo/townhome and it IS his property.

It is a single family home and it is in HIS front yard.

It is NOT a common area as previously though.

The HOA is still within their rights here...bottom line. :idk:

I do wish they would just let him keep his flagpole.

I served 4 1/2 years with the US Marine Corps and I do love the flag and my country BUT when you move in to a neighborhood governed by an HOA...you are obligated to follow the rules. :idk:

Link to actual story with video...

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/POLEGAT02_20091202-091201/309031/P0/


That is a twist.

Like you said the HOA is still in the right, legally.

It was more fun arguing with the Canucks and Kaneman over their rabble rabble on someone else's land. :lol:

[z06boy]

That is a twist.

Like you said the HOA is still in the right, legally.

It was more fun arguing with the Canucks and Kaneman over their rabble rabble on someone else's land. :lol:

Agreed :rofl:

[Apoc]

Well here's a twist. :lol:

The basic principle still applies...flagpoles are not approved by the HOA BUT it is NOT a condo/townhome and it IS his property.

It is a single family home and it is in HIS front yard.

It is NOT a common area as previously though.

The HOA is still within their rights here...bottom line. :idk:

I do wish they would just let him keep his flagpole.

I served 4 1/2 years with the US Marine Corps and I do love the flag and my country BUT when you move in to a neighborhood governed by an HOA...you are obligated to follow the rules. :idk:

Link to actual story with video...

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/POLEGAT02_20091202-091201/309031/P0/
edit: nevermind, read something incorrectly

[Rider]

The HOA can get bent on that rule. It's the rules and he should follow them, but why? What do they have against flagpoles? For aesthetic reasons? That's bullshit. Makes me want to go home and put up a flagpole in my own yard, which is allowed by our HOA. HOA's are good for the most part but this goes beyond fucked up.

[101lifts2]

The question isn't about reason, it is about making changes to land YOU DO NOT OWN.

What are you having difficulty understanding?


You own exactly 1/Number of Units in the Complex. The issue is the bylaws state what can and cannot be placed outside of your unit.

[101lifts2]

....I would never own a condo just for these reasons, its never really yours...

It is as much yours as is a house. Don't pay property taxes and see how long that lasts before the government takes it.

If you don't pay HOA dues, most HOAs cannot sell your property, but can put a lien on it to pay back HOA dues once sold. I'm also guessing they could sue for the money as well.

[karl_1052]

Give me a break man. The guy fought in three wars and won the goddamn Medal of Honor. He's got more courage in one 90 year old shriveled testicle than 98% of the population. When someone goes to that length to fight for America you let him have a flagpole to display the American flag the right way.

Sure, we get it, the HOA is in the legal right. But they fail at basic decency and common sense.

He also fought for the ability to become a land owner, and the right for the land owner to have the right to say no to a flag on his/her land.

If he does not own the land, he does not have the right to do anything on that land. Simple fact.

[Apoc]

He also fought for the ability to become a land owner, and the right for the land owner to have the right to say no to a flag on his/her land.

If he does not own the land, he does not have the right to do anything on that land. Simple fact.

Scroll up a little. Its his land.

[karl_1052]

Scroll up a little. Its his land.

scroll even further, Kane posted that quote before it was known to be his land.(original article stated it was the HOAs land)

[goof2]

Scroll up a little. Its his land.

And when he bought that land he either knew or should have known that he was buying it with restrictions. While part of me thinks that he has earned the right to do whatever he wants, I still have to say he should honor the conditions under which he made the purchase.

[Kaneman]

scroll even further, Kane posted that quote before it was known to be his land.(original article stated it was the HOAs land)

Yea, because fuck them, that's why. A flagpole doesn't hurt the land or even damage it beyond simple repair. Total lack of common sense and decency seems to be the HOA mantra.

[karl_1052]

Yea, because fuck them, that's why. A flagpole doesn't hurt the land or even damage it beyond simple repair. Total lack of common sense and decency seems to be the HOA mantra.

Written in the same laws that this man fought for.
Since you think it is okay for him to violate these laws, that means you have no respect for the men who fought in any wars up until this point.

[Kaneman]

Written in the same laws that this man fought for.
Since you think it is okay for him to violate these laws, that means you have no respect for the men who fought in any wars up until this point.

Then I guess I just don't have any respect for the men who fought and died in all of America's wars to this point.

Hell, make it all men who have died in the name of freedom.

[Smittie61984]

But, what about when your BUYING a home in a community with a HOA, how can they say they have any legal right to your property???


Aren't those really similar to 99year leases? I know at our state lakes (all man made) the land surrounding the lake is property of the Army Corps of Engineers but you sign a 99year lease for the property. I'm not sure how it exactly works but you basically own the property unless you live on it for 100 years.

Now you want to hear some fucked up government intrusion? Gwinnett county Georgia (suburb of Atlanta) has a code enforcement which I hate with a passion. It's like a government funded HOA with guns. You could have a broken down car in your backyard, hidden by a fence and trees. If someone calls it in and they see your car then you get fined. Grass too tall, house needs pressure washing, kayak laying in the front yard? Fined. Obviously Gwinnett is crime free so it's a great place to live (not)!

[Papa_Complex]

Yea, because fuck them, that's why. A flagpole doesn't hurt the land or even damage it beyond simple repair. Total lack of common sense and decency seems to be the HOA mantra.

People buy in an area with a HOA because of the quality of life and property values. After that they complain that the same rules that help to prop up those property values won't let them do something that they want to. There's a lack of common sense at work here. That one thing is certain.

[Kaneman]

People buy in an area with a HOA because of the quality of life and property values. After that they complain that the same rules that help to prop up those property values won't let them do something that they want to. There's a lack of common sense at work here. That one thing is certain.

Around here people buy in an HOA because they don't have much of a choice. Every new neighborhood built here has an HOA. It's always the same, they start out with normal common sense rules like don't park a rusted boat in your front yard and gradually progress to complete idiocy with new rules like "vehicles can not display any form of business" so if you work for say AT&T you can not drive your work vehicle home when you're on call.

That's just one small example. This story is another.

I wonder how many HOA debates we've had here?

[sherri_chickie]

Hard to say you even own the inside, cuz you can pay your condo cash, and if you dont pay your condo fee's, they can still kick you the fuck out, from what I understand..

I've never seen the benefit of a condo apart from yard work and snow removal :shrug: and both of those things are cheaper than condo fee's anyway.

And they did a shitty job of snow removal here today, man am I pissed! Posted pics on facebook, it's ridiculous!


HOA's sometimes just get off on their own power, weak people that make themselves feel better than you by making up archane rules and being bullies.

He's a HERO... he should be treated as such!

[Kaneman]

Virginia Veteran Wins Battle to Keep His Flagpole in Yard
Tuesday , December 08, 2009



ADVERTISEMENTRICHMOND, Va. —

A 90-year-old Medal of Honor recipient can keep his 21-foot flagpole in his front yard after a homeowner's association dropped its request to remove it, a spokesman for Democratic Virginia Sen. Mark Warner said Tuesday.

The Sussex Square homeowners' association likewise has agreed to drop threats to take legal action against retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot, Warner spokesman Kevin Hall said.

The association had threatened to take Barfoot to court if he failed to remove the pole from his suburban Richmond home by Friday. It had said the pole violated the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines.

Neither Barfoot's daughter, Margaret Nicholls, nor homeowners' president Glenn Wilson immediately returned telephone messages.

Dropping the issue effectively ends a request that White House press secretary Robert Gibbs on Monday called "silly."

Warner and Sen. Jim Webb, both Virginia Democrats, had rallied behind Barfoot, a World War II veteran.

In a letter last week, Webb urged the association to "consider the exceptional nature of Col. Barfoot's service when considering his pride and determination in honoring our flag."

Barfoot's fight also has lit up veterans bulletin boards and blog sites supporting him.

Barfoot won the Medal of Honor for actions while his platoon was under German assault near Carano, Italy, in May 1944. He was credited with standing up to three German tanks with a bazooka and stopping their advance.

He also won the Purple Heart and other decorations, and served in Korea and Vietnam before retiring from the service in 1974.

SLIDESHOW: Medal of Honor Recipient Col. Van Barfoot




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[Homeslice]

How could the HOA be so stupid. Did they not think word of this would spread?

Their director is probably a 64-year old fat woman owning 10 cats and driving an Avalon (Camry) or Lexus ES (still a Camry).

[Tmall]

Told ya so.

[karl_1052]

Told ya so.

Did it for publicity, not because they were wrong.

[azoomm]

Did it for publicity, not because they were wrong.

I agree.

I also agree that it should not have ever come to this. It seems as though the HOA didn't want to THINK in their process - they applied their rules with black and white lines.

[Destitute]

I also agree that it should not have ever come to this. It seems as though the HOA didn't want to THINK in their process - they applied their rules with black and white lines.

And now they've set a clear precedent that will make it very difficult to stop other residents from putting up a flag pole. Since this is Virginia, I imagine the place will look like a NASCAR track infield in no time. There goes the neighborhood.

[goof2]

I agree.

I also agree that it should not have ever come to this. It seems as though the HOA didn't want to THINK in their process - they applied their rules with black and white lines.

Sometimes they do this for good reason. Now if someone else in this community wants to fly a different flag (Confederate, Mexican, Anarchist) all they have to do is follow what this guy did. If the community tries to fight it they will enjoy a nice discrimination lawsuit.

And now they've set a clear precedent that will make it very difficult to stop other residents from putting up a flag pole. Since this is Virginia, I imagine the place will look like a NASCAR track infield in no time. There goes the neighborhood.

You beat me to it.

[Homeslice]

How about simply taking your chances when you buy a home. Find out as much as you can about your potential neighbors before you move there. And if someone in your hood does something you don't like, then get together with other neighbors and go talk to that person. If all else fails, then suck it up or move. HOA's are passive-avoidance crap, run by power-trippers.

[shmike]

Did it for publicity, not because they were wrong.

And now they've set a clear precedent that will make it very difficult to stop other residents from putting up a flag pole. Since this is Virginia, I imagine the place will look like a NASCAR track infield in no time. There goes the neighborhood.

Sometimes they do this for good reason. Now if someone else in this community wants to fly a different flag (Confederate, Mexican, Anarchist) all they have to do is follow what this guy did. If the community tries to fight it they will enjoy a nice discrimination lawsuit.



+3

[z06boy]

Did it for publicity, not because they were wrong.

Correct and I'm glad they changed their stance.

[z06boy]

Sometimes they do this for good reason. Now if someone else in this community wants to fly a different flag (Confederate, Mexican, Anarchist) all they have to do is follow what this guy did. If the community tries to fight it they will enjoy a nice discrimination lawsuit.




...and being Richmond, Va. ...the capitol of the Confederacy I can see that happening easily.

[Tmall]

Still told ya so.

If they were "right" they wouldn't have given in..

[shmike]

Still told ya so.

If they were "right" they wouldn't have given in..

True.

Just like the parent in the mall that gives in to their kid to shut him up?

[Tmall]

Sure, if the parents really meant it, they wouldn't give in.

Call it what you want, he won...

[z06boy]

Still told ya so.

If they were "right" they wouldn't have given in..

Legally they were right and well within their rights.

They didn't have to give in to anything but I'm still glad they did.

[Tmall]

Yup. He was right. Thanks for agreeing.

Anybody else wanna hear " I told ya so"? I have a lot of them left. I doubt ill run out.

[Papa_Complex]

Still told ya so.

If they were "right" they wouldn't have given in..

They were right. People cave all the time when they're right, when public OPINION is against them.

[shmike]

They were right. People cave all the time when they're right, when public OPINION is against them.

Apparently, public opinion trumps all. :idk:

[Kaneman]

Yup. He was right. Thanks for agreeing.

Anybody else wanna hear " I told ya so"? I have a lot of them left. I doubt ill run out.

Throw one out there for me buddy.

[z06boy]

Yup. He was right. Thanks for agreeing.

Anybody else wanna hear " I told ya so"? I have a lot of them left. I doubt ill run out.

Ignorance is bliss and yes I'm talking about you at the moment.

[Tmall]

:lol: oh no... Somebody doesn't like me on the internet.

He still won. Regardless of why.if he was wrong, he would have lost.

Ignorance may be bliss, but making shitty excuses for not being able to say, "my bad, I was wrong.." is pathetic.

[shmike]

Ignorance may be bliss, but making shitty excuses for not being able to say, "my bad, I was wrong.." is pathetic.


I agree and therefore accept your apology.

[z06boy]

:lol: oh no... Somebody doesn't like me on the internet.

He still won. Regardless of why.if he was wrong, he would have lost.

Ignorance may be bliss, but making shitty excuses for not being able to say, "my bad, I was wrong.." is pathetic.

:lol: Has nothing to do with liking or not liking you at all...it's the internet and I don't even know you.

I said legally they were not wrong and well within their rights to keep him from keeping the pole and that is a fact and if you think otherwise you are being ignorant in this case..tough $hit. :idk:

I also said I'm glad they gave in but again LEGALLY they were not wrong.

[Tmall]

Says you.. Where does it say in his hoa contract that he can't have a flag pole?


Have you seen the documentation? If not you're ignorantly speculating.

They could have easily tried to apply a rule that had nothing to do with flagpoles to try and enforce their rules on him and been completely off base, but again.. You don't know that and neither do I.

I've just been smart enough to agree with the vet and not speculate too much into it.

Your opinion is your opinion, and until you actually see the contract that he signed, that's all it is. Another opinion.

K THX.

[shmike]

Says you.. Where does it say in his hoa contract that he can't have a flag pole?


Have you seen the documentation? If not you're ignorantly speculating.

They could have easily tried to apply a rule that had nothing to do with flagpoles to try and enforce their rules on him and been completely off base, but again.. You don't know that and neither do I.

I've just been smart enough to agree with the vet and not speculate too much into it.

Your opinion is your opinion, and until you actually see the contract that he signed, that's all it is. Another opinion.

K THX.


Do you really want someone to break it down for you or are you just looking to run around saying "I'm right you're wrong, nah nah nah na na naaa!"?

[Tmall]

You don't need to break anything down. And I don't need you to explain anything. I understand the situation and the outcome is in line with what I've said.

I don't care if you agree with what I'm saying or how I'm saying it. I also don't care if you like my attitude about it.

If you're the type to throw a ww2 vet under the bus because of an hoa, fuck you and your opinion. You're both equally worthless in my eyes.

But again, being "right" on the net is the most important thing in the world. Even more important than a man who fought for your rights being allowed to do something that has been customary in his life for about 80 years. As long as it panders to the lowest common denominator, you all are happy. Unless it effects you, right?

The rules are awesome when somebody else is getting fucked over, but when its you its bullshit? Fuck that noise.

[shmike]

You don't need to break anything down. And I don't need you to explain anything. I understand the situation and the outcome is in line with what I've said.

I don't care if you agree with what I'm saying or how I'm saying it. I also don't care if you like my attitude about it.

If you're the type to throw a ww2 vet under the bus because of an hoa, fuck you and your opinion. You're both equally worthless in my eyes.

But again, being "right" on the net is the most important thing in the world. Even more important than a man who fought for your rights being allowed to do something that has been customary in his life for about 80 years. As long as it panders to the lowest common denominator, you all are happy. Unless it effects you, right?

The rules are awesome when somebody else is getting fucked over, but when its you its bullshit? Fuck that noise.

Seems like you are getting emotional about the subject at hand.

Totally understandable.

Fortunately, most (if not all) of your assumptions are incorrect.

There was a comment made earlier about ignorance...

[Tmall]

And it still stands that you both are equally ignorant of the situation.

Calling somebody "ignorant" doesn't make you any less ignorant.

Answer one question mike, have you seen the contract he signed?

[z06boy]

if you're the type to throw a ww2 vet under the bus because of an hoa, fuck you and your opinion. You're both equally worthless in my eyes.



Look dumb$hit I said before that I wish that they would change their mind and let this guy have his flag pole. The issue wasn't over the flag it's the fvcking pole. He could have flown the flag all along.

I am a veteran myself and my father is a WWII veteran and I also said I'm glad that they indeed did give in but the fact remains that legally the HOA was not in the wrong.

[shmike]

And it still stands that you both are equally ignorant of the situation.

Calling somebody "ignorant" doesn't make you any less ignorant.

Answer one question mike, have you seen the contract he signed?

I'm assuming you are speaking to me (not mike, btw).

Your question is loaded and my answer may or may not fulfill your preconceived notions.

I offered to break down the situation as well as my understanding of it and how I arrived at that understanding.

You declined.

[Tmall]

Have you or have you not seen the contract he signed?

When you say no, I will then point out that everything that you've said has been nothing but speculation.

Therefore, you are as equally ignorant as anybody else here to the situation.

Is this wrong? Is this ignorant?

[z06boy]

Ok I didn't really want to bring this up because well I just didn't BUT I will.

I HAVE seen a copy of the neighborhood covenants from where this gentleman lives. Before you with your Johnnie Cochran approach ask :lol:...NO I didn't see the actual copy that he signed but was told that every property owner in the neighborhood signs the exact same documents.

It does not mention flagpoles in particular BUT the HOA like most has an Architectural Committee that has to approve any changes/construction that you do to your property that can be seen from the street or from a neighbor's house.

He did not get approval for this and they have the legal right to not allow it if they so desire. :idk:

I personally wished (saying this for the umpteenth time) that they would just allow the old guy to have his pole and now they have.

Ok why have I seen these documents ? Here is the part I didn't really care to post.

My in-laws also live in Richmond, Va where this is taking place and have a redneck neighbor that loves to fly his Conferate Flag.

Well guess what ? He is ready to do battle with the HOA in his subdivision because some of his neighbors complained about his flag and the HOA sent a letter to him and asked him not to fly it. They didn't demand that he takes it down and I don't even think they can but he's gearing up and has been paying attention to this other issue since it's local and also in the national news.

That's all I got.

Next...

[Papa_Complex]

Well guess what ? He is ready to do battle with the HOA in his subdivision because some of his neighbors complained about his flag and the HOA sent a letter to him and asked him not to fly it. They didn't demand that he takes it down and I don't even think they can but he's gearing up and has been paying attention to this other issue since it's local and also in the national news.

That's all I got.

Next...

And now they likely can't. Door open; walk through.

[goof2]

And now they likely can't. Door open; walk through.

Only if they are in the same neighborhood. I saw they were in the same town, but not the same neighborhood. If the case had gone to court it would be different, but as it stands this HOA has only set precedent against itself.

[karl_1052]

Have you or have you not seen the contract he signed?

When you say no, I will then point out that everything that you've said has been nothing but speculation.

Therefore, you are as equally ignorant as anybody else here to the situation.

Is this wrong? Is this ignorant?

Have you seen the contract he signed?

When you say no, I will then point out that everything you've said has been nothing but speculation.

It is your opinion.:skep:

[Homeslice]

And now they likely can't. Door open; walk through.

Sure they can. Make it clear in the rules that AMERICAN flags are allowed......Not junk like Confederate flags, school flags, etc.

[Tmall]

Don't believe you z06. I only believe facts and things you can prove.

I can say I was there when he signed his contract and made a verbal agreement to allow for the flagpole. It would hold equal weight to you suddenly telling us that you saw the contract. ... 7 pages in. Instead of when it happened.

[Tmall]

Karl, do you have a hard on for me lately?

I never once said I knew everything. I did say, the outcome is in line with my views.

So, told ya so....

[z06boy]

7 pages in ? We didn't start our back and forth BS until TODAY and I stated that I didn't even want to bring the FIL crap up. You called me out on it so I posted up what I KNEW. :idk:

Are you high or are you snowed in and bored and just love to stir $hit up ? :?:

Ok...drive on thru please...no need to discuss this further with you. :dthumb:

[goof2]

Sure they can. Make it clear in the rules that AMERICAN flags are allowed......Not junk like Confederate flags, school flags, etc.

And that would be discrimination.

[Homeslice]

And that would be discrimination.

Could be, but only the most diehard would bother to complain.

[goof2]

Could be, but only the most diehard would bother to complain.

You mean like the diehard who tries to put up a confederate flag and is denied? Also, complaints don't mean shit, lawsuits on the other hand...

[Papa_Complex]

Sure they can. Make it clear in the rules that AMERICAN flags are allowed......Not junk like Confederate flags, school flags, etc.

Except that the issue was over the flag POLE, not the flag.

[Homeslice]

You mean like the diehard who tries to put up a confederate flag and is denied? Also, complaints don't mean shit, lawsuits on the other hand...

Yes, those kinds of diehards. There aren't too many of them.

I'd wager that MOST people who would like to fly the Confederate flag aren't diehards...... they're just posers........Lots of college-age kids who just think it's cool, probably because it's a fashion statement to them.....But they wouldn't bother filing a lawsuit, or even alerting the press.

[goof2]

Yes, those kinds of diehards. There aren't too many of them.

I'd wager that MOST people who would like to fly the Confederate flag aren't diehards...... they're just posers........Lots of college-age kids who just think it's cool, probably because it's a fashion statement to them.....But they wouldn't bother filing a lawsuit, or even alerting the press.

Whoever they are, it doesn't matter. They can go slap a flagpole in their yard, tell the HOA to fuck off when they tell them to remove it, and have the ACLU handle the inevitable lawsuit.