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RACER X
12-22-2009, 08:40 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/21/iraq.us.soldiers.pregnancy/index.html

Washington (CNN) -- A new order from the general in charge of U.S. troops northern Iraq makes getting pregnant or impregnating a fellow soldier an offense punishable by court-martial.

The directive, part of a larger order restricting the behavior of the 22,000 soldiers under Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo's command, is meant to prevent losing soldiers at a time when troop strength is stretched thin, Cucolo explained in a statement sent to the troops under his command and provided to CNN.

"I need every soldier I've got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces during our mission," Cucolo wrote. "Anyone who leaves this fight earlier than the expected 12-month deployment creates a burden on their teammates. Anyone who leaves this fight early because they made a personal choice that changed their medical status -- or contributes to doing that to another -- is not in keeping with a key element of our ethos."

The rule, enacted November 4, was first reported by Stars and Stripes, a military-focused publication. It prohibits "becoming nondeployable for reasons within the control of the soldier," which include "becoming pregnant, or impregnating a soldier ... resulting in the redeployment of the pregnant soldier."

Pregnancy that arises from sexual assault would not be punished, Cucolo said.

The directive applies to all military and civilians serving under Cucolo in northern Iraq, an area that includes Balad, Kirkuk, Tikrit, Mosul and Samarra, according to the Web site of Multi-National Force Iraq.

Of the 22,000 people under Cucolo's command, 1,682 are women.

Cucolo will decide what cases will be pursued.


"I am the only individual who passes judgment on these cases. I decide every case based on the unique facts of each soldier's situation," Cucolo wrote in his explanation of the new rules.

Cucolo said he considers his female soldiers "invaluable" and he wants to ensure they fulfill their deployments.

"I am responsible and accountable for the fighting ability of this outfit. I am going to do everything I can to keep my combat power -- and in the Army, combat power is the individual soldier," his statement said. "To this end, I made an existing policy stricter. I wanted to encourage my soldiers to think before they acted, and understand their behavior and actions have consequences -- all of their behavior."

In an e-mail to CNN, Cucolo stressed the rule "is just a small part of a general policy on behavior and actions," and is "lawful."

The memo outlines a long list of behaviors that are prohibited, from gambling and using drugs to behaviors that would offend Iraqis, such as entering a mosque or religious site unless "required by military necessity."

While the rules may seem unusual to some, they are not out of line with how the military regulates behavior to a much stricter degree than the general public is used to, said Eugene Fidell, who teaches military law at Yale University.

"Questions of personal autonomy play out differently in the military," Fidell said.

He said the purpose of the rule is mostly to have a "chilling effect" on behavior, but he doubts it would ever be fully prosecuted. If it were, however, it appears to be legal, he said.

"If push came to shove and there was prosecution, I think the rule would be upheld as a reasonable balance of the competing interests," he said.

It is not without precedent, Fidell said. During the Vietnam War, a female troop would be discharged for getting pregnant. That rule was challenged, but the government did not want to defend it at the time.

According to the explanation of the policy that was sent to all those affected, only a few cases have been considered for punishment under the new rules. Four soldiers have gotten pregnant since Cucolo took over command of northern Iraq operations at the beginning of November, he told CNN in an e-mail. Of the eight soldiers involved, none were court-martialed. Instead, all received a written reprimand, Cucolo said.

In one case, a male soldier received the "most severe punishment," according to the explanation sent to those serving in northern Iraq. Cucolo does not give any other details about the case except to say the soldier "committed adultery as well."

Particle Man
12-22-2009, 08:46 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but once you join the army you become a piece of equipment that's property of the US Government, right?

karl_1052
12-22-2009, 09:04 AM
Pregnancy that arises from sexual assault would not be punished, Cucolo said.

How many false rape accusations are going to go around now?

EpyonXero
12-22-2009, 09:04 AM
Sounds fair to me.

Tmall
12-22-2009, 09:20 AM
Sounds fair, but I also agree with Karl.

Trip
12-22-2009, 09:32 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but once you join the army you become a piece of equipment that's property of the US Government, right?

Pretty much, they volunteered for this, live with it. I think it is a fair rule. You aren't a soldier for peace time only. Too many people got use to that before Afghanistan.

shmike
12-22-2009, 11:04 AM
Sounds fair, but I also agree with Karl.

Agreed.

Cutty72
12-22-2009, 11:15 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but once you join the army you become a piece of equipment that's property of the US Government, right?

Correct, for the most part.

This really isn't something new. It is against the rules to have sexual relations while on deployment status.
This does even appy to married couples deployed together, but that is a very grey area that is usually able to slide.

fatbuckRTO
12-22-2009, 11:41 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but once you join the army you become a piece of equipment that's property of the US Government, right?
In case you weren't joking or others actually believe this:

That is incorrect. It may seem like it at times because servicemembers are subject to the UCMJ and a butt ton of regulations that civilians are not, but you are not property. You are under a contract obligation to obey orders, which is not the same thing at all. Property has no rights, servicemembers do.

That said, making fucking a crime is well within the purview of a commanding general. It usually wouldn't fly anywhere but a war zone, but they have that authority. Given the logistics involved in redeploying someone who catches pregnancy or some other STD, it makes sense in this case.

fatbuckRTO
12-22-2009, 11:43 AM
How many false rape accusations are going to go around now?

Quite a few, probably, but there's an easy way to avoid that.

derf
12-22-2009, 12:21 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but once you join the army you become a piece of equipment that's property of the US Government, right?

No thats an old wives tail.

And this has been a rule since at least '03. When i think about it the only difference is that there was a no sex rule, no sex=no baby, unless I'm doing it wrong. So sex is ok now in Iraq?

fatbuckRTO
12-22-2009, 02:27 PM
When i think about it the only difference is that there was a no sex rule, no sex=no baby, unless I'm doing it wrong. So sex is ok now in Iraq?No, General Order 1 is still in full effect. They just felt the need to enhance it, apparently. Probably because no one pays attention to General Order 1 where fucking skanks is concerned.

pauldun170
12-22-2009, 02:38 PM
Given the logistics involved in redeploying someone who catches pregnancy or some other STD, it makes sense in this case.

:lol:

Pregnant women: "ah...Ahhh. AAAAHHH....CHEOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
Not pregnant women: "Cover your mouth when you sneeze before you get everyone in this room knocked up!!"

HurricaneHeather
12-22-2009, 02:44 PM
No, General Order 1 is still in full effect. They just felt the need to enhance it, apparently. Probably because no one pays attention to General Order 1 where fucking skanks is concerned.

Cheese and Rice, they aren't allowed to have sex?!!?! And these poor people are what keeps the enemy at bay? We are all so fucked(except for the soldiers, of course). :panic:

Smittie61984
12-22-2009, 07:11 PM
Cheese and Rice, they aren't allowed to have sex?!!?! And these poor people are what keeps the enemy at bay? We are all so fucked(except for the soldiers, of course). :panic:

Actually all the soldiers would be so wound up that they'd kill everything so they could get home and get laid. Not a bad plan. Maybe send the women in once a month too.

But this is a great example of why women do not make as much as men (in general) in the workforce. Hell, when a man gets a girl pregnant they usually work harder. Women take a vacation.

Dave
12-22-2009, 07:18 PM
Cheese and Rice, they aren't allowed to have sex?!!?! And these poor people are what keeps the enemy at bay? We are all so fucked(except for the soldiers, of course). :panic:

Yep my last deployment was 23 months. Talk about sucks

Amorok
12-23-2009, 11:04 AM
Masturbation was a big part of my life over there. Of course, you weren't supposed to have porn either. Let's just say my imagination got pretty good. Good at figuring out ways to hide my porn.

Dave
12-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Masturbation was a big part of my life over there. Of course, you weren't supposed to have porn either. Let's just say my imagination got pretty good. Good at figuring out ways to hide my porn.

they Were threatening to investigate peoples computers at one point. Thats when i ''lost'' the power cable to my external hdd :lol:

derf
12-23-2009, 11:49 AM
What did you say about hidden folders?

Dave
12-23-2009, 11:52 AM
:Lol: i used to leave random messages in the profile on my myspace too. Something like if you are from the 1/34 bct bn hq looking for go1 violations on this page eat a bag of dicks. :Lmao:

Particle Man
12-23-2009, 01:42 PM
:Lol: i used to leave random messages in the profile on my myspace too. Something like if you are from the 1/34 bct bn hq looking for go1 violations on this page eat a bag of dicks. :Lmao:

:lol:

Cutty72
12-23-2009, 03:28 PM
Yeah, we're not supposed to have porn here either, but yet the PX has a wide selection?

Go figure?!:boobs:

Dave
12-23-2009, 04:00 PM
Yeah, we're not supposed to have porn here either, but yet the PX has a wide selection?

Go figure?!:boobs:

man you know aafees runs the army

Amorok
12-23-2009, 04:32 PM
Dude, must be nice. Asian American Female Employment Services wasn't stocking porn when I was in the desert. Not even Playboy.

Dave
12-23-2009, 08:57 PM
Dude, must be nice. Asian American Female Employment Services wasn't stocking porn when I was in the desert. Not even Playboy.

lol first time ive heard it called that. Fits though, i remember this korean lady whod cut my hair at the shoppette and scream shit like: too much hair! Next time i charge you double!

101lifts2
12-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Sounds like you guys have alot of don't ask don't tell goin on with the no preggo rule. lol

Amorok
12-24-2009, 11:09 AM
lol first time ive heard it called that. Fits though, i remember this korean lady whod cut my hair at the shoppette and scream shit like: too much hair! Next time i charge you double!

That and when you were in the chow hall, and they'de be all "No no GI, Onry two meat!!"

Cutty72
12-24-2009, 12:21 PM
Dude, must be nice. Asian American Female Employment Services wasn't stocking porn when I was in the desert. Not even Playboy.

Well, Kosovo is far from the desert.

I don't believe that AAFES is running the Army, it's just influencing it.

KBR is running the Army.

FUCK KBR.

If they want in on all this shit, why don't we just hire them to fight the damn war too! They are replacing all the other military jobs, so why not!

Dave
12-24-2009, 12:24 PM
Well, Kosovo is far from the desert.

I don't believe that AAFES is running the Army, it's just influencing it.

KBR is running the Army.

FUCK KBR.

If they want in on all this shit, why don't we just hire them to fight the damn war too! They are replacing all the other military jobs, so why not!

dude, we'd have a third of the boots on the ground in iraq if they kicked aafes out. Easy. We could probably move to vietnam style air traffic which would be a fuckload cheaper too

derf
12-24-2009, 12:27 PM
dude, we'd have a third of the boots on the ground in iraq if they kicked aafes out. Easy. We could probably move to vietnam style air traffic which would be a fuckload cheaper too

And fun

Dave
12-24-2009, 12:30 PM
And fun

troof. Air cav mothafukas

Homeslice
12-25-2009, 10:00 AM
Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military has dropped a controversial rule that called for punishing soldiers in northern Iraq for becoming pregnant or impregnating another soldier.

The updated policy "does not include a pregnancy provision," said Maj. Joe Scrocca, spokesman for U.S. Forces-Iraq.

The military also said that any unit must get the permission of the commander of U.S. Forces-Iraq before creating new rules restricting the activity of troops, Scrocca said.

Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo created the rule about pregnancy, covering 22,000 people under his command in northern Iraq, including 1,682 women.

Cucolo said he designed the rule to make his soldiers "think before they act."

It prohibited "becoming nondeployable for reasons within the control of the soldier," including "becoming pregnant or impregnating a soldier ... resulting in the redeployment of the pregnant soldier."

Cucolo made the rule part of General Order No. 1.

While violation of any rules in the general order could lead to court-martial, Cucolo insisted that he never intended such a drastic punishment for pregnancy.

All units have a general order that outlines a code of conduct. Commanders have been allowed to add to those rules but not allowed to make the rules any more lax.

But in an e-mail Friday to CNN, Scrocca wrote that from now on, "all requests by subordinate units to impose further restrictions of activities addressed in General Order No. 1 will require approval of the USF-I commander."

Cucolo had no immediate response. His division said he was spending Christmas Day visiting soldiers.

"It is our understanding that there will be no subordinate command general orders below United States Forces-Iraq. Therefore, as soldiers we will comply," Maj. Jeff Allen of the Multi-National Division North wrote in an e-mail to CNN.

Defending the rule last week, Cucolo said he alone would decide each case based on the individual circumstances.

To date, he said, there have been eight cases of women getting pregnant while deployed under his command. Four were given letters of reprimand that were put in their local files, which means the letters wouldn't end up in their permanent files and they wouldn't be a factor under consideration for promotions.

The four others found out they were pregnant soon after deployment; no disciplinary action was taken since they were not impregnated while deployed.

In all cases, the women were sent back to the United States for medical care, as is military policy. Each has the right to submit a letter in her own defense to be included in her file.

Of the men involved, three were reprimanded, Cucolo said. One, a sergeant, was given a more severe punishment of a written reprimand in his permanent file because he fraternized with a subordinate and committed adultery. A letter in the permanent file can affect a person's career because it is evaluated when a service member is considered for promotion.

A fourth man was never reprimanded because the pregnant soldier refused to identify who the father was, and Cucolo did not pursue the issue.

Cucolo said he expected some controversy.

"But I was also willing to deal with this attention because this is important," he said. "I am responsible and accountable for the fighting ability of my task force. I've got to take every measure to preserve my combat power, and that's the reason."

fatbuckRTO
12-26-2009, 12:00 AM
Sadly predictable. It was inevitable once the press and four military-experience deficient senators got involved.

derf
12-26-2009, 12:01 AM
troof. Air cav mothafukas

Some of the most fun flights I ever took were SF flights, they do some cool shit