Sound Shooting advice & Words of Wisdom [Archive]

derf

01-12-2010, 06:18 PM

Got this in an email today, most of these are old and probably a repost. Too bad

Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch, is part drill instructor, and part standup comic (Thunder Ranch is a firearms training facility in Arizona ).

Here are a few of his observation on tactics, firearms, self defense and life as we know it in the civilized world.

"The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win and cheat if necessary."

"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way.."

"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it's going to be empty."

"If you're not shooting, you should be loading. If you're not loading, you should be moving, if you're not moving, someone's going cut your head off and put it on a stick."

"When you reload in low light encounters, don't put your flashlight in your back pocket.. If you light yourself up, you'll look like an angel or the tooth fairy... and you're going be one of 'em pretty soon."

"Do something. It may be wrong, but do something."

"Shoot what's available, as long as it's available, until something else becomes available."

"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for."

"Don't shoot fast, unless you also shoot good.."

"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."

"You cannot save the planet but you may be able to save yourself and your family."

"Thunder Ranch will be here as long as you'll have us or until someone makes us go away, and either way, it will be exciting.."

More Excellent Gun Wisdom.......

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, there is something wrong with your tactics.

3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.

4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'

6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.

7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

8. Beware of the man who only has one gun, because he probably knows how to use it very well.

'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

A people that values its privileges above its principles will soon lose both.

askmrjesus

01-12-2010, 07:08 PM

5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'

This one cracks me up every time I hear it.

Fuck 9 mils and 40's.

".45 ACP- When you care enough to send the very best."

Shit, I should make that into a tee shirt, and sell it at gun shows. :lol:

JC

Amorok

01-12-2010, 08:14 PM

I concur
http://www.twowheelfix.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3217&stc=1&d=1229701802

Trip

01-12-2010, 08:15 PM

Since the gun people have gone fucking ape shit and jacked ammo prices out of the roof. 9 is fun for target practice without spending a grand on ammo each time if you want to shoot a lot. If you can even find fucking ammo nowadays.

Amorok

01-12-2010, 08:16 PM

Well if that's what you want, shoot 22lr

Trip

01-12-2010, 08:19 PM

Well if that's what you want, shoot 22lr

good point

derf

01-12-2010, 08:19 PM

This one cracks me up every time I hear it.

Fuck 9 mils and 40's.

".45 ACP- When you care enough to send the very best."

Shit, I should make that into a tee shirt, and sell it at gun shows. :lol:

JC

I dissagree, with good 9mm ammo, depending upon your needs, try the 115 to 135 gr. range. Whether it be the Corbon 115 JHP I use, or Federal, Remington, Winchester, Pro Load, Black Hills or Gold Dot, you're probably as well armed with your 9mm as you would be with a .40 S&W.

As a matter of fact, there is quite a bit of evidence around showing a superior 9mm round will often perform as well as, or better than, many popular .45 ACP cartridges. Imagine that.

Amorok

01-12-2010, 08:20 PM

Whatever, pansy

ericr

01-12-2010, 08:21 PM

I haven't seen some of those Derf :dthumb: :lol:

derf

01-12-2010, 08:51 PM

If i can find 9mm ammo, its less than $15/50, 45ACP is closer to $50/50

Practice makes perfect, and i can fire a ton more 9mm instead of 45, and I'm also able to reaquire targets shot after shot with a 9mm than with a 45

'73 H1 Triple

01-12-2010, 08:55 PM

derf

01-12-2010, 08:59 PM

Pfffft. I reload

So do I

askmrjesus

01-12-2010, 09:00 PM

Imagine that.

Imagine my 230 Gr. Speer Gold Dot punching a big ass hole through your spleen.

Pansy.

Here's one I dug out of the ground behind a picture of rabid ferrets.

JC

'73 H1 Triple

01-12-2010, 09:03 PM

So do I

:dthumb:

You shoot copper clad/copper wash pistol bullets? ( lead bullets with thin copper plating. You can shoot them fast without lead build up in the barrel )

I was stocked up pretty good but my .357 158 grain stash only lasted 10 years. I need to find another brand since C P went out of business.

Captain Morgan

01-12-2010, 09:07 PM

fnfalman

01-12-2010, 11:26 PM

askmrjesus

01-12-2010, 11:46 PM

.45 ACP is for pussies that can't handle a real man's gun and caliber.

It was good enough for John Wayne, so it's good enough for me.

Casulls are nice for bears and ex-wives though.

JC

No Worries

01-13-2010, 12:33 AM

The .45 reminds me of my Armor training at Fort Knox. We had to run along a sprawling rifle range. At the first station, we had to field strip a .45 pistol and then fire it at a target. Then we'd run to the next station which had a .45 caliber Grease Gun. Had to field strip and fire it. The next station was a .50 caliber machine gun, and the last stage was an M48 tank with 90mm gun. What fun. Of course, there were DI's yelling at you the whole time.

I also remember during training, that when I first saw the grease gun, it looked so toy-like and cheap, that it couldn't hurt a rabbit. The instructor placed the metal wire stock against his face and fired the whole clip at a wooden target 25 feet away. The target was demolished, and he didn't have a scratch on his face.

Rider

01-13-2010, 09:00 AM

I keep saying the .357 SIG round is a fantastic caliber. A 357 magnum in a semi auto package. Ballistics show it can penetrate and engine block better than a 9mm, 40 S&W and even the mighty 45 ACP.

The Virginia State Police have had several documented officer-related shootings involving the .357 SIG, and in every case, not only were the suspects stopped instantly with one shot (except one who was shot several times while attempting to murder an officer), the bullet either did not exit the suspect, or was stopped in the clothing upon exiting, proving that even at such high velocities, the round when used with adequate expanding hollowpoints will not over penetrate soft tissue.

smileyman

01-13-2010, 11:00 AM

I only have a couple things to add:

Breath proper, aim small, and squeeeeeeze.

I would rather hit once in 9 MM than miss 3 times in any caliber. But i prefer the 45 for nostalgia. I have had some sweet shooting guns too. S&W 357 King Cobra magnum was one, Had a good shooting 9 mm luger, but is good to be proficient with whatever you carry.

z06boy

01-13-2010, 11:19 AM

I ride a litre bike because it's a good balance between a 600 and a Hayabusa.

Same reason that I carry a .40...good balance between a 9mm and a
.45. :idk:

Heavier hit than a 9mm but I can carry more capacity in a smaller space than a .45...works for me since I conceal carry.

I carried a .45 when in the USMC and liked it but I am more accurate with the .40 so I'd rather take my chances with it.

smileyman

01-13-2010, 11:25 AM

Exactly what Z06 said.

For me the 45 got gramps over the Rhine in the Big Duece, so I think i can make it work for me.

Kaneman

01-13-2010, 11:29 AM

Out of all the handguns I've fired in my life nothing has ever fit my hand as well or shot as accurately for me as my 1911 .45. Maybe because I have long E.T. fingers and huge thumbs...but that gun was made for hands like mine.

Don't leave home without it!

CasterTroy

01-13-2010, 11:30 AM

If you can even find fucking ammo nowadays.

[looks in safe] Yep..I can find it! PLENTY of it! I buy a little every month where I find the best deals. I stopped buying any from nov 08-sept 09 because of the "Obama price hike" but it's gotten back to normal (here anyway) so I nab a few boxes when there are deals.

Everything auto I have is 9mm (cept the .22 targets) simply for ease. My 3 carry pieces were made in .380 or 9mm and nothing larger so I chose 9mm...and my match pistol is 9mm. I have a couple of 38's and some .22 revolvers, but those are not primary...just guns from the past handed down

I've owned .45's and LOVED my glock 30 but just think it's easier to stockpile one round of handgun and one round of rifle for the eminent Zombie attack; where I'll load up and head to Georgia and defend Lee's WEST exposure.

I’ve read the expansion cap. Of .45 and seen loads and loads of tests, but (for me) what it boils down too, is PLACEMENT is the only thing that matters in the end. And if that’s the case…give me 19 rounds of 9mm instead of 8 rounds on .45 ANYDAY. Because when it MATTERS….you won’t BE at a range with perfect conditions…you’ll be scrambling for your life, and 8 well placed shots MAY not be possible…but cracking off 5-6 rounds to get to safety may be likely.

z06boy

01-13-2010, 11:33 AM

askmrjesus

01-13-2010, 12:07 PM

karl_1052

01-13-2010, 12:10 PM

Sound shooting advice?

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/01/03/news/photos_stories/heroin_flyer104540--300x450.jpg

derf

01-13-2010, 06:03 PM

I also remember during training, that when I first saw the grease gun, it looked so toy-like and cheap, that it couldn't hurt a rabbit. The instructor placed the metal wire stock against his face and fired the whole clip at a wooden target 25 feet away. The target was demolished, and he didn't have a scratch on his face.

Have you ever tried that shit? It's stupid and hurts, and is only there to show people who never seen a gun in their life that they shouldnt be scared of it. I did a demonstration with an M4 a few years back following what a DS showed me in basic where he held his M16 against his nuts and fired it on 3 round burst. I did it and and the pussified recoil that the m4 has nearly put me on the floor because it sqeezed on of my nuts

Archren

01-13-2010, 06:21 PM

That's the main thing...whatever feels the best to you.

Truth. Whatever you fire most accurately is the best.

If they made a .40 S&W or .45 with a hand grip I could use (similar to the 9mm Beretta), I'd be golden. I tried a friend's .45 Glock, but the hand grip was so huge it made my shot group go all sorts of haywire. I'm sure I could have improved it if I practiced often enough, but when we pulled a Beretta that same outing, my shot groups tightened up very quickly.

I like the "if I was expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle" quote. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'... and shooting an M4 with a CCO (sans magnification) is almost like cheating. I still want to fire with an ACOG, but I haven't sweet talked my armor into letting me swap yet. :lol:

derf

01-13-2010, 06:42 PM

I still want to fire with an ACOG, but I haven't sweet talked my armor into letting me swap yet. :lol:

IMHO, I like the CCO better than the ACOG, just for the sheer size of it, the ACOG is just too big. IMHO, the EOtech red dot is far better than either of the other two for CQB, and for the ultimate in reliability, (gasp) Iron sights!

fnfalman

01-13-2010, 08:25 PM

It was good enough for John Wayne, so it's good enough for me.

Casulls are nice for bears and ex-wives though.

JC

John Wayne never used the .45ACP.

fnfalman

01-13-2010, 08:28 PM

I also remember during training, that when I first saw the grease gun, it looked so toy-like and cheap, that it couldn't hurt a rabbit. The instructor placed the metal wire stock against his face and fired the whole clip at a wooden target 25 feet away. The target was demolished, and he didn't have a scratch on his face.

Ah yes, the old M3. It was cheap and cheesy, that was its raison d'etre for WWII. Shooting it was weird. The cycling rate was so slow, that you count count the rounds being fired. Thut, thut, thut, thut, thut, thut...

Hydrant

01-13-2010, 08:37 PM

Weren't most cowboy single actions 45 Long Colt?

racedoll

01-13-2010, 08:50 PM

7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

I like both of these quotes. Especially the last one.

fnfalman

01-13-2010, 10:27 PM

Weren't most cowboy single actions 45 Long Colt?

The Duke preferred .32-40 caliber.

askmrjesus

01-13-2010, 10:49 PM

John Wayne never used the .45ACP.

:lol:

My bad. He probably had a Glock while filming The Sands of Imo Jima, The Green Berets, The Flying Leather Necks, In Harms Way, and the other ten WWII films he did.

Of course if he was a real man, he would have had a .454 penis gun....:lol:

JC

fnfalman

01-14-2010, 01:55 AM

:lol:

My bad. He probably had a Glock while filming The Sands of Imo Jima, The Green Berets, The Flying Leather Necks, In Harms Way, and the other ten WWII films he did.

Of course if he was a real man, he would have had a .454 penis gun....:lol:

JC

The Duke was a real life pussy anyway. Instead of actually serving his country like his peers, he went and acted tough in the movie. He couldn't handle a 9mm much less a real man's .454 handgun.

At least it takes balls and muscles to handle the .454 unlike the .45ACP where even the weakest motherfuckers can use. The .45ACP are for the small dicks who need something to compensate but ain't man enough to use real man's magnum calibers.

BTW, he used the M1 carbine and M1 Garand in Sands of Iwo Jima, M16 in The Green Berets, .38 Special revolver in Flying Leather Necks and nothing in In Harm's Way.

OTB

01-14-2010, 07:35 AM

When you really need it, I'll take ANY gun over none at all.............

But the best gun is one you can hit with.

All this crap about the relative "stopping power" of various handguns is just that. Crap. There is 2mm difference between a 9m and a .45.

There are numerous cases of folks being shot with everything up to and including Federal Tactical slugs (.71 caliber, 438 gr wt) and continuing to fight.

More folks (non-military) have been killed by the lowly .22 than all other calibers combined, simply because the .22's are so prolific. (Gabe Suarez: Secrets Of Reality-Based Gunfighting; 1997)

With deference to you fnfal; no weapon's any good if you can't hit the target. Mebbe you can hit stuff with Casull, but after a couple of rounds, I hate shooting the damn thing. Call me a wuss if you like, but I don't like the pounding that thing dishes out. The noise is impressive, but my arthritic wrists can't take the punishment, so it's no fun to shoot a lot.

Shoot watcha got. Learn to hit with it. Every time.

derf

01-14-2010, 08:05 AM

Remembered two more this morning:

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice.

Minimum force necessary means that you continue firing at the threat until the threat is no longer a threat

CasterTroy

01-14-2010, 08:39 AM

Th The .45ACP are for the small dicks who need something to compensate but ain't man enough to use real man's magnum calibers.

:lol

allrightythen....because asians are known for being well hung ;)

askmrjesus

01-14-2010, 09:00 AM

The Duke was a real life pussy anyway. Instead of actually serving his country like his peers, he went and acted tough in the movie. He couldn't handle a 9mm much less a real man's .454 handgun.

This I agree with. When you think about, The Duke is probably partly responsible for getting a lot of people killed.

At least it takes balls and muscles to handle the .454 unlike the .45ACP where even the weakest motherfuckers can use. The .45ACP are for the small dicks who need something to compensate but ain't man enough to use real man's magnum calibers.

:lol: Dude, whatever. I'll have 10 rounds in your ass before you can get that Brazilian scrap heap unhitched from your pack mule. Come on, you actually carry that fucking bazooka around with you?

BTW, he used the M1 carbine and M1 Garand in Sands of Iwo Jima, M16 in The Green Berets, .38 Special revolver in Flying Leather Necks and nothing in In Harm's Way.

You know, it turns out you may be correct. I can't find any reference to the Duke using a .45 in a film, except for the Mac-10 he used in "McQ", which may or may not have been the .45 version.

The Duke is now on the list of people who are dead to me. Fuck that guy.

JC

fnfalman

01-14-2010, 11:29 AM

:lol: Dude, whatever. I'll have 10 rounds in your ass before you can get that Brazilian scrap heap unhitched from your pack mule. Come on, you actually carry that fucking bazooka around with you?

Ten rounds of what? Pussy ass underpowered faggot bullets? I'll be lobbing heavy artillery rounds from three hundred yards away while drinking a Corona beer with a Mexican hooker sucking me off on a lounge chair.

You know, it turns out you may be correct. I can't find any reference to the Duke using a .45 in a film, except for the Mac-10 he used in "McQ", which may or may not have been the .45 version.
JC

It was a 9mm version. You can tell from the magazine.

askmrjesus

01-14-2010, 11:37 AM

Ten rounds of what? Pussy ass underpowered faggot bullets?

So you wouldn't mind standing in front of one, right? :lol:

I'll be lobbing heavy artillery rounds from three hundred yards away while drinking a Corona beer with a Mexican hooker sucking me off on a lounge chair.

Corona? Even the Mexicans won't drink that shit. At least we know your poor taste isn't just limited to pistol calibers...

It was a 9mm version. You can tell from the magazine.

Like I said, Dead To Me.

JC

Adeptus_Minor

01-14-2010, 11:47 AM

This thread was amusing and then, suddenly, all the goodness was blocked by someone's massive epeen. :rolleyes::lol:

Archren

01-14-2010, 01:04 PM

This thread was amusing and then, suddenly, all the goodness was blocked by someone's massive epeen. :rolleyes::lol:

Where's that smiley when you need it?? :lol:

Cutty72

01-14-2010, 03:27 PM

I like the "if I was expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle" quote. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'... and shooting an M4 with a CCO (sans magnification) is almost like cheating. I still want to fire with an ACOG, but I haven't sweet talked my armor into letting me swap yet. :lol:

I prefer the CCO. The ACOG is ok if you are the SDM, but the 3X mag sucks in close quarters. Also, you can't use the BIS with it.

CCO is good to 500 yards, which is the effective range of an M4 anyway. :idk:

CasterTroy

01-14-2010, 03:44 PM

I'm down with OPP as long as it's COD and I'm not gettin STD's

askmrjesus

01-14-2010, 03:47 PM

I'm down with OPP as long as it's COD and I'm not gettin STD's

:lol:

Yeah, I didn't understand any of that shit either. :lol:

JC

Cutty72

01-14-2010, 03:48 PM

I'm down with OPP as long as it's COD and I'm not gettin STD's

Too many acronyms for ya?

CCO = Close Combat Optic
ACOG = Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight
SDM = Squad Designated Marksman
3X mag = Magnification 3 times normal
BIS = Back-up Iron Sights.

CasterTroy

01-14-2010, 03:53 PM

3X mag = Magnification 3 times normal

I hope when the TSA starts using that full body scanner they have a 3X Mag version for guys like me that use that wimpy 9mm

askmrjesus

01-14-2010, 03:57 PM

I hope when the TSA starts using that full body scanner they have a 3X Mag version for guys like me that use that wimpy 9mm

fnfalman can just go with the BIS...:whistle:

JC

Rider

01-14-2010, 04:10 PM

I keep telling you guys, if you are stuck on a 9mm, you should really think about a .357 Sig. It's a .40 S&W casing (and powder)necked down to fit a 9mm bullet with superior ballistics to the 9mm, 40S&W, and 45 ACP.

.45 ACP - 200 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP +P 1,080 ft/s (330 m/s) 702J (518 ft·lbf)
.40 S&W - 165 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) 656J (484 ft·lbf)
9x19mm Parabellum - 115.0 gr JHP +P 1,430 ft/s (435 m/s) 704 J (519 ft·lbf)
.357 SIG - 115 gr Bonded defense JHP 1,550 ft/s (470 m/s) 832J (614 ft·lbf)

I see a clear winner here.

CasterTroy

01-14-2010, 04:20 PM

I see a clear winner here.

I see limitations to what guns you can HAVE...and the ONE gun that fits me like a glove and feels perfect (Springfield XDm) is not chambered for it.

I'll stick with what I have and like (and have 1000's of rounds of ammo already for)

racedoll

01-14-2010, 07:22 PM

I'm down with OPP as long as it's COD and I'm not gettin STD's

:lol:

I hope when the TSA starts using that full body scanner they have a 3X Mag version for guys like me that use that wimpy 9mm

Sorry by my mind went the wrong direction here... :didntdo:

Adeptus_Minor

01-14-2010, 07:36 PM

CCO is good to 500 yards, which is the effective range of an M4 anyway. :idk:

If I'm trying to shoot something at 500 yds with no magnification, it better be the size of a bull elephant. :lol:

Archren

01-14-2010, 08:56 PM

I prefer the CCO. The ACOG is ok if you are the SDM, but the 3X mag sucks in close quarters. Also, you can't use the BIS with it.

CCO is good to 500 yards, which is the effective range of an M4 anyway. :idk:

Yeah, see, my eyesight ain't that great even with my glasses on. :lol: The best score I've gotten even with a CCO is 34/40. :( (Edit to add: eyesight isn't the sole reason.. I'm impatient, and it seems the only way I get to practice my shooting lately is if I go play range safety all day first.. so by the time I get to fire, I'm tired and my fundamentals go out the window).

And I've never fired with an ACOG, I just want to try it sometime. That and I'll take any excuse to get as much trigger time as possible on Uncle Sam's dime. :lol:

Adeptus_Minor

01-14-2010, 09:04 PM

And I've never fired with an ACOG, I just want to try it sometime. That and I'll take any excuse to get as much trigger time as possible on Uncle Sam's dime. :lol:

That's right, because when you get back here you & Tracy can go to the range with me... but it'll cost ya :devil:

I've been tossing around the idea of building an M4gery myself, but I think EOTech is as fancy as I'd be able to get. Trijicon is too damn proud of their ACOGs.

derf

01-14-2010, 10:24 PM

That's right, because when you get back here you & Tracy can go to the range with me... but it'll cost ya :devil:

I've been tossing around the idea of building an M4gery myself, but I think EOTech is as fancy as I'd be able to get. Trijicon is too damn proud of their ACOGs.

EOtech is the shiznit. The sight is huge and all you really need to do is get somewhat behind it to get a good sight picture

Adeptus_Minor

01-14-2010, 10:44 PM

EOtech is the shiznit. The sight is huge and all you really need to do is get somewhat behind it to get a good sight picture

Yep, worth the $300-500.
Last year I talked to a couple of cops at the shooting range who were practicing with their AR's. They let me squeeze off a few rounds to try out the EOTech.
Good stuff :dthumb: Can't say I can see dropping the extra for the magnifier, but the sight itself is really sharp.

No Worries

01-15-2010, 12:44 AM

I spent years doing exploration in the wilds of Nevada. I carried a Ruger Mark 2 in a shoulder holster. Practice makes perfect. I've fired hundreds of bricks of .22's and the only problem I had was the front sight came loose. I've eaten rabbit and rattlesnakes that it provided, and I could shoot from the hip and hit a can ten times. I never feared anything when I wore it. And with the bull barrel, it looks like a .45.

fnfalman

01-15-2010, 10:54 AM

So you wouldn't mind standing in front of one, right? :lol:

Corona? Even the Mexicans won't drink that shit. At least we know your poor taste isn't just limited to pistol calibers...

JC

Why would I stand in front of one when I can shoot a man's caliber round from afar?

My poor taste at least doesn't run into shooting a pussy ass round that the shooter fancies to be a man's round.

.45ACP, .40 SW, 9mm, .357 SIG (or is it .357BS), 10mm = pussy rounds.

If I were to shoot one of them, I wouldn't be swaggering around too much.

ericr

01-15-2010, 11:34 AM

Why would I stand in front of one when I can shoot a man's caliber round from afar?

My poor taste at least doesn't run into shooting a pussy ass round that the shooter fancies to be a man's round.

.45ACP, .40 SW, 9mm, .357 SIG (or is it .357BS), 10mm = pussy rounds.

If I were to shoot one of them, I wouldn't be swaggering around too much.

IF you really were a real man we'd hear ya talking about the .500 Remington so go take your little wimpy .454 back to the sandbox! ;)

:lol:

askmrjesus

01-15-2010, 12:01 PM

IF you really were a real man we'd hear ya talking about the .500 Remington so go take your little wimpy .454 back to the sandbox! ;)

:lol:

Yeah, no shit.

Where's your 105mm Howitzer, bitch? :lol:

JC

Rider

01-15-2010, 12:05 PM

Yeah, no shit.

Where's your 105mm Howitzer, bitch? :lol:

JC

I see your 105mm and raise you 12 in" beyotch!

http://www.discoverhawaiitours.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/uss_missouri_battleship.jpg

askmrjesus

01-15-2010, 12:19 PM

I see your 105mm and raise you 12 in" beyotch!

http://www.discoverhawaiitours.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/uss_missouri_battleship.jpg

Meh.

That's a 16'' gun, n00b.

Mines bigger.

Meet the Schwerer Gustav:

800mm's baby.

JC

karl_1052

01-15-2010, 12:46 PM

I will stick with my 600mm gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t

454, ha, that is for real pussies

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Warsaw_Uprising_by_Joachimczyk_-_Dud_in_Adria_-_459.jpg

askmrjesus

01-15-2010, 12:51 PM

I will stick with my 600mm gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t

Probably a better choice, if you're going to carry..:lol:

JC

ericr

01-15-2010, 01:23 PM

Meh.

That's a 16'' gun, n00b.

Mines bigger.

Meet the Schwerer Gustav:

800mm's baby.

JC

:lol: As soon as I saw the battleship pic I was going to post the Gustav, you beat me to it AMJ :lol:

Papa_Complex

01-15-2010, 02:15 PM

"Carrying an auto with one up the pipe in your waistband may look manly, but will soon remove the ability to make any claim to same." - Me. Jan.15/10

wildchild

01-15-2010, 02:26 PM

i thought this was the largest land gun.

ours were 155mm BTW self propelled artillery. 105 was for airborne.

Cutty72

01-15-2010, 05:17 PM

Yeah, see, my eyesight ain't that great even with my glasses on. :lol: The best score I've gotten even with a CCO is 34/40. :( (Edit to add: eyesight isn't the sole reason.. I'm impatient, and it seems the only way I get to practice my shooting lately is if I go play range safety all day first.. so by the time I get to fire, I'm tired and my fundamentals go out the window).

And I've never fired with an ACOG, I just want to try it sometime. That and I'll take any excuse to get as much trigger time as possible on Uncle Sam's dime. :lol:

Yeah, I guess that makes a difference too. :lol:

From what I saw on the range (we just got the CCO's and ACOG's for this deployment) was that the CCO's helped those that had problems keeping a consistent sight picture most.
My score stayed about the same (35) I generally shoot between a 34 and 37.
Problem for me was the 200's actually!

FYI easiest way to sight in the CCO is to first zero the iron sights, then while keeping a good sight picture, "lollipop" the front sight post with the red dot and center it with the rear iron sight.
3 rounds to zero iron sights, 3 to zero the CCO. :D

Archren

01-15-2010, 05:20 PM

I'll stick to Hellfire (AGM-114L Longbow), thanks much... 8000m range, fire and forget... I could tag your ass from where you can't even see me. :lol:

Archren

01-15-2010, 05:23 PM

Yeah, I guess that makes a difference too. :lol:

From what I saw on the range (we just got the CCO's and ACOG's for this deployment) was that the CCO's helped those that had problems keeping a consistent sight picture most.
My score stayed about the same (35) I generally shoot between a 34 and 37.
Problem for me was the 200's actually!

FYI easiest way to sight in the CCO is to first zero the iron sights, then while keeping a good sight picture, "lollipop" the front sight post with the red dot and center it with the rear iron sight.
3 rounds to zero iron sights, 3 to zero the CCO. :D

Yeah, the consistent sight picture thing got me with the CCO... I was so wasted from being out in the sun all morning, running up and down range for zero and qualification as a range safety, that when it came time to fire, my head would start to drift. At such close range (we were shooting at paper targets), the whole "wherever the red dot is will be where your round will go" only works if your red dot is in the very center of the scope. Damn parallax. :lol:

Cutty72

01-15-2010, 05:26 PM

Yeah, the consistent sight picture thing got me with the CCO... I was so wasted from being out in the sun all morning, running up and down range for zero and qualification as a range safety, that when it came time to fire, my head would start to drift. At such close range (we were shooting at paper targets), the whole "wherever the red dot is will be where your round will go" only works if your red dot is in the very center of the scope. Damn parallax. :lol:

Actually, that's not true.
I didn't believe it when they told me that, so i was moving my head all over having the red dot in the upper right, lower center etc... still hit where i was aiming. did it again at 25 yard when the safety's got to play around burning up rounds. Don't ask me to explain it, but once it's zero'd, the red dot is where the bullet goes (taking into consideration drop and wind of course)

Archren

01-15-2010, 05:39 PM

Actually, that's not true.
I didn't believe it when they told me that, so i was moving my head all over having the red dot in the upper right, lower center etc... still hit where i was aiming. did it again at 25 yard when the safety's got to play around burning up rounds. Don't ask me to explain it, but once it's zero'd, the red dot is where the bullet goes (taking into consideration drop and wind of course)

Then it's probably just me. :lol: I think I zeroed myself a little low for paper targets, and I wasn't as self-aware of my trigger squeeze... I realized I jerked the trigger a couple of times out of sheer impatience. :lol: At that point I really didn't care.. I was tired, my body armor was digging into my back and hips, and I was tired of hearing the guy on the bullhorn drone on. :lol:

No Worries

01-15-2010, 06:20 PM

Not as big as the Gustav, but more powerful. The 280MM "Atomic Annie" fired a tactical nuclear warhead with a yield of 15 kilotons: http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_atomic.php3 Fascinating article with pictures.

Rider

01-18-2010, 09:10 AM

Glock 22 for sale locally by private party, $400 obo Hmm I've always wanted a Glock.

Captain Morgan

01-18-2010, 12:38 PM

Glock 22 for sale locally by private party, $400 obo Hmm I've always wanted a Glock.

Not sure how I feel about buying used guns. No way to really tell how they were cared for...

Rider

01-18-2010, 12:48 PM

Not sure how I feel about buying used guns. No way to really tell how they were cared for...

You pop them open and look for any wear, dents from dropping etc. Any gun dealer can look at it for you and tell you if the weapon has been neglected. There will be signs. Really the only way to mistreat a gun is to not clean/oil it and to fire handloaded bullets that are too powerful. Dry firing can also ruin the firing pin, but again that is something that will be visible to a professional.

'73 H1 Triple

01-18-2010, 07:31 PM

You pop them open and look for any wear, dents from dropping etc. Any gun dealer can look at it for you and tell you if the weapon has been neglected.

Trustworthy dealers. Some will pass their mistakes in purchasing onto unknowing buyers.

There will be signs. Really the only way to mistreat a gun is to not clean/oil it and to fire handloaded bullets that are too powerful.

Sometimes a weapon that has not been cleaned can be a good deal. But you have to know what to look for. If someone has shot lead bullets ( not jacketed ) it will look nasty but will clean up nice. It is a good amount of work to clean the lead out.

With revolvers, excessive chmber pressures will make the cylinder loose, contribute to gas etching on the top strap above the cylinder where it meets the barrel. The forcing cone will be worn.

Loose slides and worn throats ( where the bullet jumps from the case to the barrel ) are a couple of signs.

Dry firing can also ruin the firing pin, but again that is something that will be visible to a professional.

It depends on the firearm. Rimfire and shotguns should never be dryfired unless you have a spent cartridge or snapcaps in the chamber.

Almost all centerfire pistols and rifles can be dry fired without damage. In fact, it is recommended that military firearms be stored with the firing pin released ( obviously if it's loaded, do NOT pull the trigger to store it )

Adeptus_Minor

01-18-2010, 07:43 PM

Sometimes a weapon that has not been cleaned can be a good deal. But you have to know what to look for. If someone has shot lead bullets ( not jacketed ) it will look nasty but will clean up nice. It is a good amount of work to clean the lead out.

Yep, that's how I got a now perfectly functioning and very accurate JC Higgins Model 31 for $50 cash-n-carry.
There was some light surface rust on the barrel and it had a sign on it saying "broken extractor" or somesuch.
I took it home, broke it down, and cleaned it inside & out.
Then I took it out for a test session at the range.
Lo & behold... no problems cycling ammo :wink:

'73 H1 Triple

01-18-2010, 09:23 PM

When I worked at the gun shop, a guy came in and traded in a ruger super blackhawk in .44 mag that looked rough.

He said "I keep it on my tractor for shooting groundhogs" :lol:

We weren't sure if there was any rifling in the barrel so he didn't get too much on trade in.

The owner liked it and took it home and scrubbed it with hoppes & brass brushes for over week. Finally got the bore clean and it shot great.

CasterTroy

01-19-2010, 08:36 AM

Whe

He said "I keep it on my tractor for shooting groundhogs" :lol:

Holy crap! Overkill much? :lmao:

Rider

01-19-2010, 08:40 AM

Trustworthy dealers. Some will pass their mistakes in purchasing onto unknowing buyers.

Sometimes a weapon that has not been cleaned can be a good deal. But you have to know what to look for. If someone has shot lead bullets ( not jacketed ) it will look nasty but will clean up nice. It is a good amount of work to clean the lead out.

With revolvers, excessive chmber pressures will make the cylinder loose, contribute to gas etching on the top strap above the cylinder where it meets the barrel. The forcing cone will be worn.

Loose slides and worn throats ( where the bullet jumps from the case to the barrel ) are a couple of signs.

It depends on the firearm. Rimfire and shotguns should never be dryfired unless you have a spent cartridge or snapcaps in the chamber.

Almost all centerfire pistols and rifles can be dry fired without damage. In fact, it is recommended that military firearms be stored with the firing pin released ( obviously if it's loaded, do NOT pull the trigger to store it )

If you're that paranoid you can get a new Glock barrel for $140. And my point was, you could bring the gun to any dealer prior to purchase and they can look at it for you. That is, if the seller was willing to meet you at a shop to have the gun looked at. My guess is, if they are willing to have a professional look at it, they are not trying to hide anything.

askmrjesus

01-19-2010, 09:11 AM

Holy crap! Overkill much? :lmao:

The dude must have had a serious hatred of groundhogs. :lol:

JC

Adeptus_Minor

01-19-2010, 09:55 AM

Holy crap! Overkill much? :lmao:

Never start a battle that you aren't willing to finish.
...preferably to component atoms.

Twobanger

01-19-2010, 10:53 AM

If you're that paranoid you can get a new Glock barrel for $140. And my point was, you could bring the gun to any dealer prior to purchase and they can look at it for you. That is, if the seller was willing to meet you at a shop to have the gun looked at. My guess is, if they are willing to have a professional look at it, they are not trying to hide anything.

The guy might have read the Internet stories of Glock 22's exploding and decided to get rid of it before losing some fingers :lol. Google Image: Glock 22 kaboom :tremble:

Rider

01-19-2010, 10:57 AM

The guy might have read the Internet stories of Glock 22's exploding and decided to get rid of it before losing some fingers :lol. Google Image: Glock 22 kaboom :tremble:

I friend of mine is a DEA agent and has put 10K rounds through his G23 and has NEVER had an issue with it. I think I can trust Glock to be reliable.

Twobanger

01-19-2010, 11:36 AM

I friend of mine is a DEA agent and has put 10K rounds through his G23 and has NEVER had an issue with it. I think I cant trust Glock to be reliable. :didntdo:.
Glock is a good weapon; I'm partial to hammer fired pistols so I own H&K.

Before I decided on the M&P for USPSA use I was going to get a Glock 17 for that purpose. If you join the GSSF (http://www.gssfonline.com/) you get the LE discount once every 12 months so for not much more than 400 you can get a new gun.

Rider

01-19-2010, 11:50 AM

:didntdo:.
Glock is a good weapon; I'm partial to hammer fired pistols so I own H&K.

Before I decided on the M&P for USPSA use I was going to get a Glock 17 for that purpose. If you join the GSSF (http://www.gssfonline.com/) you get the LE discount once every 12 months so for not much more than 400 you can get a new gun.

I owned an H&K(USP 40) for a few years and sold it a couple of years ago because I never used it. I don't have a CCW and I never took it to the range. I loved how the M&P felt in my hand and I was more accurate with it than the Glock but I don't know much about the S&W reliability and I know with some range time I can be accurate with the Glock. I do intend on getting my CCW so hammers, external safeties and de-cockers are only going to get in the way if I need it unholster it in a hurry.

'73 H1 Triple

01-19-2010, 06:46 PM

If you're that paranoid you can get a new Glock barrel for $140. And my point was, you could bring the gun to any dealer prior to purchase and they can look at it for you. That is, if the seller was willing to meet you at a shop to have the gun looked at. My guess is, if they are willing to have a professional look at it, they are not trying to hide anything.

My point was not every gun dealer is on the up & up. Talk to friends and find a good local guy. :yes:

'73 H1 Triple

01-19-2010, 06:49 PM

Holy crap! Overkill much? :lmao:

The dude must have had a serious hatred of groundhogs. :lol:

JC

He was a farmer. Here's a little back round on our "fine furry friends".

They dig under buildings and compromise foundations.

The holes in the pastures are places for livestock to break legs ( they must be destroyed then )

The holes in fields can break farm equipment or cause hay wagons to tip over.

They also carry diseases.

Jeff
exterminator of grass rats

askmrjesus

01-19-2010, 08:05 PM

He was a farmer. Here's a little back round on our "fine furry friends".

I understand all that, but a .44 mag is a pretty expensive round for groundhog plinking. :lol:

JC

Particle Man

01-20-2010, 11:25 AM

'73 H1 Triple

01-21-2010, 09:22 PM

.45 ACP is for pussies that can't handle a real man's gun and caliber.

BTW, Thunder Ranch was in Tejas but long moved to Oregon.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/Guns/ShootiingwithBhanu019.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/Guns/ShootiingwithBhanu016.jpg

The Duke was a real life pussy anyway. Instead of actually serving his country like his peers, he went and acted tough in the movie. He couldn't handle a 9mm much less a real man's .454 handgun.

At least it takes balls and muscles to handle the .454 unlike the .45ACP where even the weakest motherfuckers can use. The .45ACP are for the small dicks who need something to compensate but ain't man enough to use real man's magnum calibers.

BTW, he used the M1 carbine and M1 Garand in Sands of Iwo Jima, M16 in The Green Berets, .38 Special revolver in Flying Leather Necks and nothing in In Harm's Way.

All that .454 casull is a hot loaded .45 colt.

You go running at the mouth about the .454 and all i can think about is the movie Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/f0/HarleyMarl_1019.jpg/600px-HarleyMarl_1019.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/8/86/HarleyMarl_002.jpg/600px-HarleyMarl_002.jpg

Every time Mickey Rourke fires a shot, Don Johnson says Two bucks :rofl:

RACER X

01-21-2010, 09:26 PM

shot a casull at the range a bit back, neat gun, wouldn't want to own or shoot it alot. too much kick. like my kimber betta!

Phenix_Rider

01-21-2010, 10:23 PM

and the .44 will leave holes like that too :lol:

A well placed .22lr does the job. .30-30 is overkill- as in :shotgun:

A .44 :overkill:

'73 H1 Triple

01-21-2010, 10:45 PM

shot a casull at the range a bit back, neat gun, wouldn't want to own or shoot it alot. too much kick. like my kimber betta!

My buddy's wife likes her S&W, it's a .50 S&W.

She 4'-10" and probably 110 lbs soaking wet.

fnfalman

01-21-2010, 11:14 PM

All that .454 casull is a hot loaded .45 colt.

You go running at the mouth about the .454 and all i can think about is the movie Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man

Every time Mickey Rourke fires a shot, Don Johnson says Two bucks :rofl:

Ah...no!!! The hot loaded .45 Colt is about the equivalence to a .44 Magnum. Hot but no .454 Casull hot. Two bucks a round, three bucks a round, who cares? It makes big bang.

Rider

01-22-2010, 08:55 AM

Ah...no!!! The hot loaded .45 Colt is about the equivalence to a .44 Magnum. Hot but no .454 Casull hot. Two bucks a round, three bucks a round, who cares? It makes big bang.

Ok but where are you going to conceal that bitch? For home defense? A high cap, short barrel Shotgun is the way to go. Like a Browning BPS hi cap.

Papa_Complex

01-22-2010, 10:47 AM

A well placed .22lr does the job. .30-30 is overkill- as in :shotgun:

A .44 :overkill:

When I used to target shoot with my .44 lever, I would use sand-filled bleach jugs as a target. One trip all that I could find for loads was plated hollow points. With a centre hit taking out the back 1/3 of the jug, I was looking for new targets pretty early on in the day.

CasterTroy

01-22-2010, 11:05 AM

He was a farmer. Here's a little back round on our "fine furry friends".

They dig under buildings and compromise foundations.

The holes in the pastures are places for livestock to break legs ( they must be destroyed then )

The holes in fields can break farm equipment or cause hay wagons to tip over.

They also carry diseases.

Jeff
exterminator of grass rats

Well versed in Ground hog facts ;) they're all over here as well. But they seemed to die just as dead when I'd shoot them with my 22LR as a kid.

I guess my penis just isn't small enough to own a gun that shoots a bullet so large it leaves a hole in a person big enough for a ground hog to crawl thru :idk: