View Full Version : Old man trail bike question
Avatard
02-20-2010, 07:06 PM
I live on a partially dirt road, and am near a bunch of undeveloped land.
I wanna get a little putt-around "utility" dirt bike, for me, the GF, and my kid to play and learn on, and ride about...around 100cc (2T).
As I look through the local craigslist, I find myself more attracted to the old-school dual shock arrangement. The truth is, I do want something a little more sedate (perhaps just not as sedate as a 4T...lol).
I know the modern monoshock is a superior layout, but I fear I won't like the dynamics of the bike. I don't think riding a "scissor" is quite the same experience.
Is this just me pining for that old "DT" flavor of my youth?
Should I ignore the soul-less appearance of a modern monoshock, and get something more new school?
My GF is tiny, and so is my kid (little over 5'), so maybe that's why I'm leaning towards the old 2-shock 100cc-class bike. I don't really care that it's a 3/4-size bike for me (5'10"), because it's just for playing around the house, really.
Any thoughts? Anyone in NJ selling something like this?
BobTheBiker
02-20-2010, 07:21 PM
I'd absolutely go for something with the monoshock. they have SO MUCH better suspension, and handling characteristics overall.
Thumper996
02-20-2010, 11:29 PM
If you are looking for something inexpensive and easy to maintain i would suggest a Big Wheel Honda CR85RB. The Big wheel has 16" rear and 19" front wheel with excellent suspension. If you shop you should be able to find one for $1000 in good condition. You can easily do a top end rebuild for $120 when needed.
These are great little 2 strokes and do well in the woods.
Old school is ok, but the suspension, brakes and carb. are also old school and most likely wore out.
Forget your passion and buy a bike to ride or not and buy an old school and work on it instead of riding it.
6doublefive321
02-21-2010, 09:01 AM
If you pick out a bike that is old enough to have twin rear shocks, the bike has other out-dated components also. In the case of a two stroke, this fact means a narrow power band, lots of oil spooge, and lots of carb tinkering. In the case of a four stroke, old means hard to start, little or no power, and just overall crankiness. So, be careful what you look at, as there are other problems that come along with older bikes.
By the way, mono-shock bikes are more stable, lighter, and more forgiving than dual shock bikes. I have ridden both types, and there is NO advantage whatsoever to the old dual shock setup. Unless you are a shock dealer, then they are ok.
Avatard
02-21-2010, 05:00 PM
If you pick out a bike that is old enough to have twin rear shocks, the bike has other out-dated components also. In the case of a two stroke, this fact means a narrow power band, lots of oil spooge, and lots of carb tinkering. In the case of a four stroke, old means hard to start, little or no power, and just overall crankiness. So, be careful what you look at, as there are other problems that come along with older bikes.
By the way, mono-shock bikes are more stable, lighter, and more forgiving than dual shock bikes. I have ridden both types, and there is NO advantage whatsoever to the old dual shock setup. Unless you are a shock dealer, then they are ok.
I'm aware of the whole 2/4 stroke thing. Sorry, I think ALL bikes should be 2T.
The bike I was looking at actually isn't THAT old:
http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/mcy/1565812875.html
This, although a 2T, looks like a good beginner bike (again, while I'm no beginner, others in my house are).
My GF is a non-rider and rather a spaz. She'd probably punch a hole in the house with anything much more powerful, like a YZ or CR125...
BobTheBiker
02-21-2010, 05:10 PM
2 stroke is GREAT for dirt, and track,but 4 stroke is KING for street ridin IMO.
but 2 strokes are merciless motors from my experience on new riders, where a 4 stroke is superior for newbies to get a good grasp of things then transition to 2 stroke.
6doublefive321
02-21-2010, 08:02 PM
You may think I'm crazy, but have you considered a 50cc moped? While goofy looking and usually pieces of crap, I would think they would be great to learn to ride on. Just a thought.
TYEster
02-21-2010, 08:29 PM
2 stroke is GREAT for dirt, and track,but 4 stroke is KING for street ridin IMO.
but 2 strokes are merciless motors from my experience on new riders, where a 4 stroke is superior for newbies to get a good grasp of things then transition to 2 stroke.
LOL right, which is exactly why the 2stroke has gone the way of the dodo bird in both MX and GP racing... Nobody switches to 2.
4-stroke is where it's at - no stupid premix, no constant motor tinkering, better longevity/reliability, colder starting, etc.The level of suspension is solely up to the buyer/riders intended use. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time on even the RT100, but even my style of trail riding is more aggressive than just riding a fence line. But if it works for you, go for it.
6doublefive321
02-21-2010, 09:50 PM
LOL right, which is exactly why the 2stroke has gone the way of the dodo bird in both MX and GP racing... Nobody switches to 2.
4-stroke is where it's at - no stupid premix, no constant motor tinkering, better longevity/reliability, colder starting, etc.The level of suspension is solely up to the buyer/riders intended use. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time on even the RT100, but even my style of trail riding is more aggressive than just riding a fence line. But if it works for you, go for it.
I'm of the opposite opinion. 2t's are easy to work on, cheap to maintain, and a hoot to ride. When I was riding hare scrambles, it cost me a whopping $5 to change the transmission oil every 100 miles. Valve adjustment? What valves! Top end job? About $150. Compare those costs to 4t oil changes, valve adjustments, and God forbid top end, and 2t's win in my book. But, to each his own. 4t's do indeed rule the roost in MX and GP.
Avatard
02-21-2010, 10:00 PM
You may think I'm crazy, but have you considered a 50cc moped? While goofy looking and usually pieces of crap, I would think they would be great to learn to ride on. Just a thought.
Yeah, but I want something they can learn on, and that I'll want to ride as well...so that's out.
Dude. I live on a [partially] dirt road. A basic dirt bike is like a needed outdoor accessory.
BobTheBiker
02-21-2010, 10:28 PM
get an XR100. no shortage of power, and its pretty damn user friendly. I had the XR80, which is the same bike with a smaller motor, they handle GREAT with the monoshock setup, but the front brake is drum, which IMO is lacking for high performance stopping that I've grown used to over time. an XR200 is another good choice. notice I'm ONLY mentioning honda bikes? its because in dirt bikes, they're EXCELLENT machines.
Avatard
02-21-2010, 11:32 PM
4T? Ugh. I mean; I know I am talking about fulfilling the role of the American equivalent to the family pack mule...and I get that whole "Honda comes real close to being a sealed unit", "an appliance" thing...but 4 stroke?
I dunno man, in my head, dirt bikes go ring ding, end of discussion.
6doublefive321
02-21-2010, 11:50 PM
4T? Ugh. I mean; I know I am talking about fulfilling the role of the American equivalent to the family pack mule...and I get that whole "Honda comes real close to being a sealed unit", "an appliance" thing...but 4 stroke?
I dunno man, in my head, dirt bikes go ring ding, end of discussion.
Don't give in! Stick to your 2t guns. We don't need no stinking valve train.
Avatard
02-22-2010, 01:24 AM
http://cnj.craigslist.org/mcy/1610456506.html
Two shocks, two strokes. No waiting.
...And it's a Honda.
Mark this on your calandar; 'cause I agree with Avatard....gimme a 2T for the dirt any old day. I have two 2strokes, a TS250 ('73) and a TS125 ('75), and they are a blast to ride, dual shocks and limited travel and all. Unless your pounding the whoops most of that stuff is just marketing fluff. As far as maintenance, I have 8000 (dirt) miles on the the original top end of the 250; it uses oil injection, always starts on the first kick (Yes, it has to be kick-started, big deal). Service takes about 1/2 hr every season; it's light, snappy and fun to ride.......what else do you want?....(ohh, and I bought it for $500 and haven't put another $100 into it in six years of hard use, but this year I'll treat it to some tires).
defector
02-22-2010, 08:06 AM
The saying when I was a kid was "2 strokes truck, and 4 strokes suck". I am obviously biased since I grew up on 2t, but I asked my kids who split time equally with both.
My son prefers the snap of a 'smoker. My daughter prefers the thumper.
TYEster
02-22-2010, 08:10 AM
:lol:
I must be the start of the new generation here then... Didn't realize there were still this many fans of the 2smoke. No wonder they keep making them :zowned:
However it seems most of the new trail bikes are 4s.
defector
02-22-2010, 03:33 PM
I thought KTM, Yamaha, and Kawasaki all had at least one 'smoker in their 2011 lineup? Maybe that was the 2010 model year?
The single most intimidating / hardest to ride (fast) bike I have ever ridden was my brothers worked over CR500.
That thing still gives me cold sweats. :lol
Rider
02-22-2010, 03:42 PM
My son used to have a Yamaha RT100. It was a dual rear shock but it was fun for him to ride when was 7-9. The guy we sold it to just wanted it for putting around on his property. You can pick those things up in the 4-600 range. I think they were made until 2006 or so.
:lol:
I must be the start of the new generation here then... Didn't realize there were still this many fans of the 2smoke. No wonder they keep making them :zowned:
However it seems most of the new trail bikes are 4s.
Popularity had nothing to do with it....EPA and CARB (California Air Resources Board) killed the two-strokes, first on the street, them in the dirt, as pollution regs tightened up.
TYEster
02-22-2010, 05:16 PM
I thought KTM, Yamaha, and Kawasaki all had at least one 'smoker in their 2011 lineup? Maybe that was the 2010 model year?
The single most intimidating / hardest to ride (fast) bike I have ever ridden was my brothers worked over CR500.
That thing still gives me cold sweats. :lol
2010 might be the last year America gets any actually.
Popularity had nothing to do with it....EPA and CARB (California Air Resources Board) killed the two-strokes, first on the street, them in the dirt, as pollution regs tightened up.
Maybe... But then people were winning races with them LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before anyone complained about environmental issues. Plus I know so many locals who'd rather ride the 4s than the wild and crazy powerband of the 2s. So I say "no" to your theory.
defector
02-22-2010, 06:03 PM
Plus I know so many locals who'd rather ride the 4s than the wild and crazy powerband of the 2s. So I say "no" to your theory.
I think that is the reason people who like them, like them so much. The light switch fast powerband, the seemingly unlimited ability to rev, and that angry hornets nest buzz they make. They definately aren't for everyone. IMO just about anybody can jump on a thumper and be comfortable. Not so much on a 'smoker.
Avatard
02-22-2010, 06:06 PM
Ring dings. They're more like rodeo sex.
2010 might be the last year America gets any actually.
Maybe... But then people were winning races with them LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before anyone complained about environmental issues. Plus I know so many locals who'd rather ride the 4s than the wild and crazy powerband of the 2s. So I say "no" to your theory.
http://www.bikersrights.com/ama/EPA_end2strokes.html
http://cfpub.epa.gov/ordpubs/nerlpubs/recordisplay.cfm?deid=66311
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=266817
TYEster
02-22-2010, 09:13 PM
http://www.bikersrights.com/ama/EPA_end2strokes.html
http://cfpub.epa.gov/ordpubs/nerlpubs/recordisplay.cfm?deid=66311
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=266817
Great... But history and the change of motors was already being made.
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/classics/bike.asp?id=132
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/exhibits/mx/people.asp?id=377
BobTheBiker
02-22-2010, 10:12 PM
The EPA was the big killer of 2 strokes, and is the major reason they're not being marketed. the europeans have some that are euro tier 2 compliant, maybe tier 3, I havent looked in awhile, but they're fuel injected, oil injected and pretty creative little fuckers. for the US market, its just not worth the hassle/money for the manufacturers to invest in the engineering to make them crackpot california compliant.
The EPA was the big killer of 2 strokes, and is the major reason they're not being marketed. the europeans have some that are euro tier 2 compliant, maybe tier 3, I havent looked in awhile, but they're fuel injected, oil injected and pretty creative little fuckers. for the US market, its just not worth the hassle/money for the manufacturers to invest in the engineering to make them crackpot california compliant.
True true true.
Bimota built the V-due, a direct injection 2s that would have met (and did) epa and carb regs. it just bankrupted the company.....
as epa regs dissuaded the japanese co's and turned them away from 2s to 4s for ease of compliance, it forced them to look to 4s for racing also as research (race on Sunday, sell on Monday) dollars are always scarce...........
BobTheBiker
02-22-2010, 10:59 PM
Its sad that 2 strokes cost so much to develop but honestly, I enjoyed riding an RD250 for awhile, they ARE indeed fun little machines, and simple to work on, but thats about all really. once you get into the technical details of keeping them running dependably, which I might add is hard if you're like me and like to run 2 strokes hard all the time, they lose their appeal.
Depends...I used to endurance race (12 and 24 hr races) a Gt750 Suzi; and that thing used to take abuse that brought most bikes to their knees....and we won or placed A LOT.....we raced one whole season on one engine...one crank, one set of jugs......
BobTheBiker
02-22-2010, 11:48 PM
obviously there ARE exceptions, but I'm talking generally in terms of dirtbikes, not necessarily 3 cylinder water cooled bikes.
http://york.craigslist.org/mcy/1613312055.html ....cool bike...
Krabill
02-23-2010, 12:22 PM
Maybe... But then people were winning races with them LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before anyone complained about environmental issues. Plus I know so many locals who'd rather ride the 4s than the wild and crazy powerband of the 2s. So I say "no" to your theory.
The ONLY reason people were winning races with them is because they allowed a 450cc 4T to race against a 250cc 2T.
Thankfully, they've recalled those rules for amateur racing and stopped letting the 450's run in the 250 2T class. The 2T are very popular in amateur racing because they cost a whole hell of a lot less to maintain than a modern 4T.
In Enduro racing, where you can ride any size bike you want, 2T's have always - and continue to be - the favorite bike to race on. Go watch and enduro some time and you'll see 1/2 the bikes split up between KTM 200 and 300 2T's with the rest of the field being a mixture of everything else.
All that said, I'd still take a 4T with electric start for a plunk around trail bike :lol:
Rider
02-23-2010, 01:06 PM
250 2T are still the bike of choice for FMX even though the weights of the 450 4T and the 250 2T are pretty damn close. You can't beat the powerband of a 2T motor. For trail riding and putting around a 4T is the way to go though. I can go nearly double the distance on my 4T than I could on my 2T.
Avatard
02-23-2010, 03:23 PM
http://york.craigslist.org/mcy/1613312055.html ....cool bike...
That Taco is dope....but the trailer is hooked up, and I am on my way to pick up the RT100 in about 20 minutes, however. It's about 2 miles from my house, can't beat that.
:rockwoot:
Avatard
02-23-2010, 04:54 PM
RT in da house.
Ok, the trailer...but it's mine biatch!
Krabill
02-23-2010, 05:23 PM
Pics or it didn't happen.
Avatard
02-23-2010, 06:46 PM
Tomorrow, bitch. It's cold, and I got a good wood fire going. Sucks buying a bike in the frozen rain. I'm still drying out.
Tomorrow, it's gonna be mid 40s. I get to play :)
Particle Man
02-23-2010, 08:22 PM
RT in da house.
Ok, the trailer...but it's mine biatch!
sweet man! Congrats!
Digifox
02-23-2010, 08:48 PM
pix plz?
Avatard
02-24-2010, 12:25 AM
Tomorrow, promise.
I just went out for firewood, and it's raining cats and dogs, and near freezing - I ain't opening the trailer now.
Damn...I forgot to ask...
1) The pattern (it's 4 gears, I'm assuming one down, 3 up)
2) If it's mix or injection
Avatard
02-24-2010, 12:27 AM
sweet man! Congrats!
Thanks, I've owned a few bikes, but I always wanted a simple little dirt bike since I was 11, and my buddy had a Yamaha DT60 Mini Enduro...
This is pretty close.
Krabill
02-24-2010, 08:59 AM
Tomorrow, promise.
I just went out for firewood, and it's raining cats and dogs, and near freezing - I ain't opening the trailer now.
Damn...I forgot to ask...
1) The pattern (it's 4 gears, I'm assuming one down, 3 up)
2) If it's mix or injection
1) Nah, I'd guess they're either all up or all down.
2) Don't know. Look for an oil reservoir. I had an old Yammy and didn't have much experience with the little Hondas. My Yammy was oil injected, but for some reason I don't think the Hondas were.
Rider
02-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Tomorrow, promise.
I just went out for firewood, and it's raining cats and dogs, and near freezing - I ain't opening the trailer now.
Damn...I forgot to ask...
1) The pattern (it's 4 gears, I'm assuming one down, 3 up)
2) If it's mix or injection
RT100 is oil injection. The oil reservoir in under the seat. A full tank of oil will last you many tanks of gas. If I remember right the shift pattern is 1 down 3 up.
shmike
02-24-2010, 09:42 AM
RT100 is oil injection. The oil reservoir in under the seat. A full tank of oil will last you many tanks of gas. If I remember right the shift pattern is 1 down 3 up.
Yep.
Fun little bike.
I had a DT100 as a kid. I thought it was a 5-speed? :idk:
Before you fill up with straight gas, check the oil line from the tank to the pump and the pump to the carb. Many people bypass the oil injection and switch to pre-mix. Yamaha uses plastic gears in their oil pumps and are prone to failure.
I've had bikes and PWC's with both set-ups. I don't want to jinx anything but I see no problem with the stock set-up. ;)
Avatard
02-24-2010, 02:36 PM
Before you fill up with straight gas, check the oil line from the tank to the pump and the pump to the carb. Many people bypass the oil injection and switch to pre-mix.
Aware of this, hence why I should have asked.
It seems to be a 4 speed. Rode it. Needs some diddly shit - levers, mostly...hand and foot controls are all a little twisted (typical for a dirt bike), the clutch lever is snapped off at half. The bars are aluminum, and a little tweaked. The kick start doesn't catch every cog, but it starts real easy, just choke, no throttle. Because the footpegs are a little tweaked, it's actually easier to start by hand (for a man with a size 10 shoe)...that's how easy it kicks over.
This, of course, also suggests that a ring may soon be in order, but for now, it seems to have enough squish to light and run.
It was a little fat on top, but it's cold. It's probably jetted OK for normal weather, and summer gas.
http://poopnugget.com/files/rt01.jpg
$600
Particle Man
02-24-2010, 03:49 PM
Hey that's a sweet steal you got man
shmike
02-24-2010, 04:07 PM
It seems to be a 4 speed. Rode it. Needs some diddly shit - levers, mostly...hand and foot controls are all a little twisted (typical for a dirt bike), the clutch lever is snapped off at half. The bars are aluminum, and a little tweaked. The kick start doesn't catch every cog, but it starts real easy, just choke, no throttle. Because the footpegs are a little tweaked, it's actually easier to start by hand (for a man with a size 10 shoe)...that's how easy it kicks over.
Do yourself a favor at look at http://www.parkeryamaha.com/
I just bought almost all the same shit for the wife's quad (bars, levers, cables) and these guys were a fraction of the cost of other sites.
I paid less for new bars, two levers, an oil filter and shipping than other places wanted for JUST the bars.
Avatard
02-24-2010, 07:57 PM
Do yourself a favor at look at http://www.parkeryamaha.com/
I just bought almost all the same shit for the wife's quad (bars, levers, cables) and these guys were a fraction of the cost of other sites.
I paid less for new bars, two levers, an oil filter and shipping than other places wanted for JUST the bars.
Thanks, I found this too:
http://www.motorcycle.mryamahaparts.com/1999-RT-100.htm
Has fucking every part for the bike.
:rockwoot:
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