View Full Version : Way to let down the side guys
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 07:15 AM
Can't these people figure out that if you want to hurt an attention whore, then you do it by IGNORING her? And the Provost's letter? Stupidity. This whole mess gives us a national black eye.
It's even more important that you give idiots freedom of speech. If you can't hear them, then how do you know that they're idiots?
Coulter is going to find that her reception in Calgary is a bit different. Albertans tend to be rather conservative, leaning toward the American model.
2,000 students silence Ann Coulter (http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/741619)
Security cancels shock-talk speech in Ottawa
March 24, 2010
Julian Beltrame
The Canadian Press
OTTAWA - Hundreds of screaming students succeeded in what few thought possible Tuesday night - they silenced incendiary right-winger Ann Coulter.
Organizers for the American's tour of Canada scrubbed her much-anticipated speech at the University of Ottawa when students crowded the entrance before her arrival. A spokesman for the organizers said about 2,000 "threatening" students posed a security threat to the darling of the American right, and she was advised against appearing.
"It would be physically dangerous for Ann Coulter to proceed with this event," said conservative political activist Ezra Levant inside Marion Hall.
"This is an embarrassing day for the University of Ottawa and their student body . . . who chose to silence her through threats and intimidation."
The announcement was greeted with shouts of "Shame" and "We want Ann" from about 100 people who had managed to get into the hall.
Outside students celebrated: "Nananana, nanana, Goodbye Ann Coulter."
About 10 Ottawa police cruisers were called to the scene, but there was no violence.
Coulter expressed her outrage at the unfolding of events in Ottawa in interviews with the U.S. media.
"This has never happened before," she told The Washington Times Tuesday night.
"I go to the best schools, Harvard, the Ivy League and those kids are too intellectually proud to threaten speakers."
Calling the University of Ottawa a "bush league" institution, Coulter said "their IQ points-to-teeth ratio must be about 1-to-1."
There were early signs the evening would not go smoothly.
A crush of bodies greeted organizers about 90 minutes before Coulter's 8:15 p.m. speaking time as about 1,000 showed up for the 400-seat hall.
At about 7:30 a fire alarm was triggered.
Then hundreds of protesters arrived, mostly students carrying signs and chanting. There was no accurate head account, but one student said the protesters accounted for about several hundred while one event organizer estimated 2,000.
"Ann Coulter should go back to where she came from because we don't want her back here," shouted Ellen Ocran, a University of Ottawa student in a shouting match with a Coulter backer.
A protest organizer, international studies student Mike Fancie, said he was happy they were able to stop Coulter from speaking.
"What Ann Coulter is practising is not free speech, it's hate speech," he said. "She's targeted the Jews, she's targeted the Muslims, she's targeted Canadians, homosexuals, women, almost everybody you could imagine."
Levant blamed the bedlam on university academic vice-president Francois Houle, who had written Coulter to warn her that Canadian laws make provisions for hate speech.
"Promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges," he warned her in the letter, which Coulter quickly leaked to the media.
The university has refused to comment since, but Levant said Houle's not-too-subtle advice to Coulter emboldened students to block her appearance.
Coulter was in the middle of a three-city tour of Canada which began at the University of Western Ontario in London on Monday, and ends in Calgary on Thursday.
The event in London went without incident, but not without controversy.
When answering questions from students, Coulter told a 17-year-old Muslim student to "take a camel" instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation.
And earlier on Tuesday, she protested, with a bemused smile, that she was the real victim.
"I've been a victim of a hate crime," she said in a CTV interview of Houle's letter. "I think he's accusing me of criminal proclivities."
If publicity was the goal of Coulter's Canadian tour, the trip has already been a smashing success.
She even got a mention in the House of Commons, with New Democrat MP Olivia Chow accusing the government of hypocrisy in allowing her into the country, after having given the boot to an ideological opposite.
Chow said the decision last year to bar British MP George Galloway, who has expressed pro-Palestinian views, shows the Conservatives have a double-standard on freedom of speech.
Immigration Minister Jason Kenney defended keeping Galloway out of the country by noting his financial help to a terrorist group, Hamas.
"Hogwash," responded Chow.
"George Galloway has no criminal record. He can travel the United States, all over the world. What the minister is doing ... people he agrees with, fine come; people he doesn't agree with, you can't come."
Levant said the protest proves another point, that was the reason for the tour in the first place.
"The point of the tour was to demonstrate that the state of freedom of speech in Canada is in jeopardy, especially on university campuses," he said.
Coulter is a best-selling author and syndicated columnist who has been called one of the leaders of the angry right wing in the United States, along with talk show hosts Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck. She embraces the outrage she triggers although she has often dismissed the ensuing controversy by suggesting she was trying to be humorous.
Her "camel" comment on Monday was obviously a joke, she said on CTV.
She has said worse things, including "not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims," and that Canadians ought to be grateful the U.S. didn't roll over them. That was after former prime minister Jean Chretien refused to follow George W. Bush into the war in Iraq.
Coulter told CTV she made the remark when "the French-speaking influence was a little bit more dominant in Canada."
Asked to comment on the Harper Conservatives, Coulter said she didn't pay much attention to Canadian politics, but judged they were not her cup of tea.
"If they support same-sex marriage and socialized medicine, no they are not conservative enough," she said.
And she summed up the harsh reaction to her with another smile.
"I am dangerous," she said.
"What Ann Coulter is practising is not free speech, it's hate speech," he said. "She's targeted the Jews, she's targeted the Muslims, she's targeted Canadians, homosexuals, women, almost everybody you could imagine."
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Yeh lump all those people together? Seriously you are gonna compare us to jews to muslims, canadars, homoseuals and women? How dare you?
Particle Man
03-24-2010, 09:07 AM
:lol:
"What Ann Coulter is practising is not free speech, it's hate speech," he said. "She's targeted the Jews, she's targeted the Muslims, she's targeted Canadians, homosexuals, women, almost everybody you could imagine."
Yes, because free speech only applies to speech you agree with and like. What a fucking idiot...
azoomm
03-24-2010, 09:14 AM
Great job guys, now she can cry to media that will hear her butt-hurt ranting rather than just a few hundred people in a room.
The best way to silence her is to not give the attention she craves.
Avatard
03-24-2010, 09:14 AM
Who cares what she says [Austin Powers Voice], she's a man, baby![/voice]
http://poopnugget.com/files/coulter_adamsapple.jpg
Tmall
03-24-2010, 09:31 AM
Yes, because free speech only applies to speech you agree with and like. What a fucking idiot...
They used their right to free speech and assembly to "win". She's not the only one allowed to say what she wants. And it's obvious that hundreds of students didn't agree with what she had to say, they voiced that opinion, she left.
Freedom, it's not just for the person at the podium..
Avatard
03-24-2010, 09:33 AM
Freedom, it's not just for the person at the podium..
Quoted for posterity, and emphasis.
They used their right to free speech and assembly to "win". She's not the only one allowed to say what she wants. And it's obvious that hundreds of students didn't agree with what she had to say, they voiced that opinion, she left.
Freedom, it's not just for the person at the podium..
Actually they were using their speech to deny a person their freedom of speech. They also use intimidation and threats. Which are not protected free speech. So they lose.
Tmall
03-24-2010, 09:38 AM
Actually they were using their speech to deny a person their freedom of speech. They also use intimidation and threats. Which are not protected free speech. So they lose.
Says you..
Freedom has no decibel limit, and I haven't heard of any charges being filed about the threats.
They used their freedom of speech to get their message across, she wasnt wanted there by them. She could have stayed and gave her speech, she probably could have done it with police protection. She chose to leave.
Tmall
03-24-2010, 09:50 AM
Just one question Trip, do you feel the same way when the Westboro Baptist Church protests funerals and are run off by people who think they're a bunch of idiots?
They're technically within their rights to protest, but nobody EVER complains about their freedom of speech rights being violated. Could it be because we don't agree with their message? And could it be that the people are well within their rights to protest the protesters?
And I lied, one more question.. What freedom of speech rights do we have on here? None, because it is your board and you are not the government so you are under no obligation to protect my freedom of speech. Much like a group of private individuals can try to silence anybody they wish ( These guys come to mind http://www.parentstv.org/).
Says you..
Freedom has no decibel limit, and I haven't heard of any charges being filed about the threats.
They used their freedom of speech to get their message across, she wasnt wanted there by them. She could have stayed and gave her speech, she probably could have done it with police protection. She chose to leave.
Says the article
The event organizers have to provide safety for the audience and the speaker. They couldn't maintain order, so they cancelled the event. The kids even pulled the fire alarm, which is just sad. This is not just an issue of yelling, but causing disorder and not being able to safely hold an event. I am sure the hall would of provided ample sound for the speech to continue with the crowd yelling outside, so it's definitely not just the yelling.
What if you went to see a concert and a group of hardcore christians decided the band you were going see was "devil's music" and got the event cancelled, would you be as happy as you are about Coulter getting disrupted or do you just like childish antics when it fits your bias?
Tmall
03-24-2010, 09:55 AM
Says the article
The event organizers have to provide safety for the audience and the speaker. They couldn't maintain order, so they cancelled the event. The kids even pulled the fire alarm, which is just sad. This is not just an issue of yelling, but causing disorder and not being able to safely hold an event. I am sure the hall would of provided ample sound for the speech to continue with the crowd yelling outside, so it's definitely not just the yelling.
What if you went to see a concert and a group of hardcore christians decided the band you were going see was "devil's music" and got the event cancelled, would you be as happy as you are about Coulter getting disrupted or do you just like childish antics when it fits your bias?
I'll just skip to the part where you called me childish because you have no actual merit behind your argument. :lol
Freedom for everyone Trip, not just the ones you agree with.
Just one question Trip, do you feel the same way when the Westboro Baptist Church protests funerals and are run off by people who think they're a bunch of idiots?
They're technically within their rights to protest, but nobody EVER complains about their freedom of speech rights being violated. Could it be because we don't agree with their message? And could it be that the people are well within their rights to protest the protesters?
And I lied, one more question.. What freedom of speech rights do we have on here? None, because it is your board and you are not the government so you are under no obligation to protect my freedom of speech. Much like a group of private individuals can try to silence anybody they wish ( These guys come to mind http://www.parentstv.org/).
The Westboro Baptists don't intimidate or do things like pull the fire alarm. They go to their legally allowed spot and do their protest. They don't try to deny anyone their freedom of speech either. The patriot guard gets there and is allowed to protest too. Not the same thing.
Here, just like the Coulter event, are private events. You don't have the same rights you do on the streets. They can remove you from the crowd at the coulter event if you misbehave in the audience, just like I can ban and edit people's posts here.
I'll just skip to the part where you called me childish because you have no actual merit behind your argument. :lol
Freedom for everyone Trip, not just the ones you agree with.
I didn't call you childish, read it again, I called what these idiots did childish.
I do agree with freedom as along as you don't use your freedom to limit others freedom.
Tmall
03-24-2010, 10:00 AM
The Westboro Baptists don't intimidate or do things like pull the fire alarm. They go to their legally allowed spot and do their protest. They don't try to deny anyone their freedom of speech either. The patriot guard gets there and is allowed to protest too. Not the same thing.
Here, just like the Coulter event, are private events. You don't have the same rights you do on the streets. They can remove you from the crowd at the coulter event if you misbehave in the audience, just like I can ban and edit people's posts here.
You didn't answer the question, you went off on a tangent. Do you feel bad for the WBC when people try to shut them up?
Tmall
03-24-2010, 10:02 AM
I didn't call you childish, read it again, I called what these idiots did childish.
I do agree with freedom as along as you don't use your freedom to limit others freedom.
Ok, understood. But, do you not agree that there is a difference between politicians/political speakers and a rock concert?
Hate speech and a rock concert are very different things..
From Coulter
“I’m pretty sure little Francois A-Houle does not need to travel with a bodyguard,” she said. “I would like to know when this sort of violence, this sort of protest, has been inflicted upon a Muslim — who appear to be, from what I’ve read of the human rights complaints, the only protected group in Canada. I think I’ll give my speech tomorrow night in a burka. That will protect me.”
Here's another
“I'm guessing the scores to get into the University of Ottawa are not very challenging.” -Ann Coulter
From the Globe and Mail..
"In an unusual move, the University of Ottawa had sent her a warning before her speech, cautioning Ms. Coulter to watch her words lest she face criminal charges for promoting hatred in Canada."
“I hereby encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here,” University of Ottawa academic vice-president François Houle wrote.
“Promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges.”
This is from CTV Ottawa, kinda seems like she made her own bed, Eh?
"As people were still making their way into the venue, the building had to be evacuated when a fire alarm was triggered.
The incident followed a Monday night lecture at the University of Western Ontario, where Coulter told a Muslim student to "take a camel" as an alternative to flying.
Coulter made the comment as she responded to a question from student Fatima Al-Dhaher, who asked about previous comments in which Coulter said Muslims shouldn't be allowed on airplanes and should take "flying carpets" instead. Al-Dhaher noted she did not own a flying carpet and asked what she should take as an alternative transportation. "
You didn't answer the question, you went off on a tangent. Do you feel bad for the WBC when people try to shut them up?
Yes I do, the WBC protests legally. They follow the rules and laws. Let them say their thing. The WBC doesn't scream and try to disrupt the funerals, they get their signs and protest. They don't try to pull fire alarms or call in bomb threats (just an example, not something these kids did) to get the funeral cancelled. If this group of protestors followed the rules and held a protest without being disruptive and removing Coulters freedom of speech, I would have no issue with this story.
Ok, understood. But, do you not agree that there is a difference between politicians/political speakers and a rock concert?
Hate speech and a rock concert are very different things..
From Coulter
“I’m pretty sure little Francois A-Houle does not need to travel with a bodyguard,” she said. “I would like to know when this sort of violence, this sort of protest, has been inflicted upon a Muslim — who appear to be, from what I’ve read of the human rights complaints, the only protected group in Canada. I think I’ll give my speech tomorrow night in a burka. That will protect me.”
Here's another
“I'm guessing the scores to get into the University of Ottawa are not very challenging.” -Ann Coulter
There's a lot of hate speech in rock lyrics... There's a lot of anti religious tones and anti government tones. It is the same thing.
goof2
03-24-2010, 10:10 AM
Just one question Trip, do you feel the same way when the Westboro Baptist Church protests funerals and are run off by people who think they're a bunch of idiots?
They're technically within their rights to protest, but nobody EVER complains about their freedom of speech rights being violated. Could it be because we don't agree with their message? And could it be that the people are well within their rights to protest the protesters?
And I lied, one more question.. What freedom of speech rights do we have on here? None, because it is your board and you are not the government so you are under no obligation to protect my freedom of speech. Much like a group of private individuals can try to silence anybody they wish ( These guys come to mind http://www.parentstv.org/).
When are the WBC dipshits run off? I saw one video where there was violence between them and another group but outside of that I haven't heard of any other incidents.
Tmall
03-24-2010, 10:13 AM
There's a lot of hate speech in rock lyrics... There's a lot of anti religious tones and anti government tones. It is the same thing.
It's NOT the same thing. Rock music lyrics do not run our countries. Rock stars have no influence over foreign policy or how the country is run.
Tmall
03-24-2010, 10:14 AM
When are the WBC dipshits run off? I saw one video where there was violence between them and another group but outside of that I haven't heard of any other incidents.
Hey, what do ya know! Nobody ran off Coulter either. She never even left her hotel, she left because of the "potential" for violence..
It's NOT the same thing. Rock music lyrics do not run our countries. Rock stars have no influence over foreign policy or how the country is run.
It is the same thing, to suggest otherwise is assinine. Both groups are entitled to have their private events free from a disorderly mob that threatens the security of the event.
Hey, what do ya know! Nobody ran off Coulter either. She never even left her hotel, she left because of the "potential" for violence..
It's hard to say who cancelled the event. If an event organizer feels they cannot ensure the safety of the audience and the speaker, they will kill quick fast. She may not even had a say in the cancellation.
It's NOT the same thing. Rock music lyrics do not run our countries. Rock stars have no influence over foreign policy or how the country is run.
thats funny, they sure seem to think they do. Someone call that fuck bono...
goof2
03-24-2010, 11:01 AM
Hey, what do ya know! Nobody ran off Coulter either. She never even left her hotel, she left because of the "potential" for violence..
At least a portion of the students apparently couldn't behave themselves. Why leave the hotel when the event is canceled over security concerns?
It's NOT the same thing. Rock music lyrics do not run our countries. Rock stars have no influence over foreign policy or how the country is run.
In my view they have a similar amount of influence as Ann Coulter, not much.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 11:17 AM
Yes, because free speech only applies to speech you agree with and like. What a fucking idiot...
Depends on whether you consider any and all speech to be free. There's the classic "fire in a crowded theatre" exception, for example. Personally I like complete freedom of speech, because it allows me to spot the bigots and morons for what they are.
As Avatard said, in this case the students exercised their rights of free speech to shout down someone they disagreed with.
Actually they were using their speech to deny a person their freedom of speech. They also use intimidation and threats. Which are not protected free speech. So they lose.
There were no threats and the only "intimidation" was some moron who pulled the fire alarm. That's just to set the record straight, since the way that this is playing in the media is starting to come off like a '60s anti-Nam campus riot. It was nothing of the sort. it was a peaceful, if somewhat loud, protest.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 11:22 AM
Coulter made the comment as she responded to a question from student Fatima Al-Dhaher, who asked about previous comments in which Coulter said Muslims shouldn't be allowed on airplanes and should take "flying carpets" instead. Al-Dhaher noted she did not own a flying carpet and asked what she should take as an alternative transportation. "
Coulter told Al-Dhaher to take a camel, if she didn't have a flying carpet. The height of political discourse.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 11:23 AM
The WBC doesn't scream and try to disrupt the funerals, they get their signs and protest.
Actually, they do.
Depends on whether you consider any and all speech to be free. There's the classic "fire in a crowded theatre" exception, for example. Personally I like complete freedom of speech, because it allows me to spot the bigots and morons for what they are.
As Avatard said, in this case the students exercised their rights of free speech to shout down someone they disagreed with.
There were no threats and the only "intimidation" was some moron who pulled the fire alarm. That's just to set the record straight, since the way that this is playing in the media is starting to come off like a '60s anti-Nam campus riot. It was nothing of the sort. it was a peaceful, if somewhat loud, protest.
Basic protected free speech, like you said the fire example wouldn't be protected speech. People being bigots and morons is fine.
They weren't shouting anyone down. She wasn't even there apparently. They were preventing an event. Your freedom is not guaranteed when you infringe on the freedom of others.
Without being there, it's hard to say what the crowd was doing. I wouldn't say they were trying to burn the building down, but it does sound like there was some disorderly conduct going on. All I have to work with is the article and reports.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 11:39 AM
Basic protected free speech, like you said the fire example wouldn't be protected speech. People being bigots and morons is fine.
They weren't shouting anyone down. She wasn't even there apparently. They were preventing an event. Your freedom is not guaranteed when you infringe on the freedom of others.
Without being there, it's hard to say what the crowd was doing. I wouldn't say they were trying to burn the building down, but it does sound like there was some disorderly conduct going on. All I have to work with is the article and reports.
Actually from what I've been told by people on-site, rather than read in the media, most of those people were there to try and get into the event. About 1000 people showed up for what was supposed to be 400 spots (as stated in the article). Cancelling the event was a preemptive and cowardly move on the part of the university. There was no threat, unless it was one of hearing damage.
Regarding the person who pulled the fire alarm; our standards of academic conduct would, in all likelihood, have had such a person tossed off campus and forfeiting all fees paid if it was a student.
Actually from what I've been told by people on-site, rather than read in the media, most of those people were there to try and get into the event. About 1000 people showed up for what was supposed to be 400 spots (as stated in the article). Cancelling the event was a preemptive and cowardly move on the part of the university. There was no threat, unless it was one of hearing damage.
Regarding the person who pulled the fire alarm; our standards of academic conduct would, in all likelihood, have had such a person tossed off campus and forfeiting all fees paid if it was a student.
If you were there for the event, why disrupt it enough to get it canceled before it actually happens? Not a very bright move on their part.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 12:02 PM
If you were there for the event, why disrupt it enough to get it canceled before it actually happens? Not a very bright move on their part.
The only reason why they "disrupted" the event was because either police, or university staff lost their bottle.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 12:08 PM
Additional information: Apparently Coulter is going to file a Human Rights complaint against the Provost who wrote the letter :skep:
so what kind of hate speech laws do you guys have up there?
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 12:32 PM
so what kind of hate speech laws do you guys have up there?
Pretty much the same as yours (free, except for the "fire in a crowded theatre" exception), with the addition of "hate speech" laws that on occasion I find rather juvenile. This is a good breakdown:
http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/issues/online_hate/when_is_hate_a_crime.cfm
The issue isn't necessarily with the laws, as it is with their application. It's the sort of thing that requires a light touch, only singling out the sort of thing that actually causes harm, or is intended to incite that sort of action.
For example I don't think that Holocaust-denier Ernst Zundel's crap meets the test, but he has been charged for his stupidity. I rather like seeing my unrepentant bigots out in the open, rather than hiding their small-mindedness behind a mask of civility.
I do too, I hate hate speech laws. Either you are for or against free speech. You can't say you have free speech, but you can't say this because it may offend someone. Ghey!
I can understand panic speech getting you in trouble, like the fire thing though.
Papa_Complex
03-24-2010, 12:49 PM
I do too, I hate hate speech laws. Either you are for or against free speech. You can't say you have free speech, but you can't say this because it may offend someone. Ghey!
I can understand panic speech getting you in trouble, like the fire thing though.
I consider some of what is considered "hate speech" to fall into that category. For instance if you have a website that targets a visible minority, suggesting that you not hire them or otherwise deny them their rights, well then that's skating the edge; maybe, maybe not. Suggest that they be physically hurt and you've just fallen off the edge of the world.
101lifts2
03-25-2010, 12:09 AM
I'll just skip to the part where you called me childish because you have no actual merit behind your argument. :lol
Freedom for everyone Trip, not just the ones you agree with.
You are not understanding what he is saying. First you do not have Freedom of Speech. If you did, you could say "All black people leave Walmart now" where ever you wish, but you cannot. The same holds true here. When you begin to threathen and cause disruption, your freedom can and will be quickly extingushed.
Personally, I don't care for Ann Cutler, but this just goes to show how the Liberals tend to brainwash college students to automatically "hate" conservatives.
Also, is Canada now so pussified as to get offended when someone says "terrorist are only Muslim"? Can you give me one example of a non-Muslim terrorist? There is truth in that statement because it STATISTICALLY is true, even though it isn't PC.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 06:51 AM
Having 3 times the number that an auditorium will hold show up for a Coulter talk doesn't necessarily imply that those college students "hate" her. Even if it did, it wouldn't imply that they hate conservatives; just her. She's a loud-mouthed idiot.
As to your comment about all terrorists being Muslims, perhaps most are. Neither are all terrorists Muslin, nor are all Muslims terrorists. Look up the LRA.
shmike
03-25-2010, 09:48 AM
I heard they called her "honky" and spit on her.
goof2
03-25-2010, 09:50 AM
Can you give me one example of a non-Muslim terrorist?
The IRA (financed in large part by Americans), the ETA in Spain, Action Directe in France, Aum Shinrikyo in Japan (sarin gas attack), and Tim McVeigh right here in America. There are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists, but they are outnumbered by Muslim terrorists.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 10:02 AM
I heard they called her "honky" and spit on her.
Spat on who; Coulter? She never even left the hotel. She wasn't on-site. University reps are now saying that it was the ORGANIZERS who cancelled, not police or university representatives.
shmike
03-25-2010, 10:13 AM
Spat on who; Coulter? She never even left the hotel. She wasn't on-site. University reps are now saying that it was the ORGANIZERS who cancelled, not police or university representatives.
Just adding fuel to the fire. :lol:
Jeering crowd, unsubstantiated claims, see also: Tea Party thread.
We knew the organizers called it off based on your original article:
Organizers for the American's tour of Canada scrubbed her much-anticipated speech at the University of Ottawa when students crowded the entrance before her arrival. A spokesman for the organizers said about 2,000 "threatening" students posed a security threat to the darling of the American right, and she was advised against appearing.
"It would be physically dangerous for Ann Coulter to proceed with this event," said conservative political activist Ezra Levant inside Marion Hall.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 10:14 AM
:lol:
"It would be physically dangerous for Ann Coulter to proceed with this event," said conservative political activist Ezra Levant inside Marion Hall.
Ya, us war loving Canadians have a horrible track record of harming public speakers we dont agree with...
She may have been boo'd off stage, it may have been a loud protest, but I guarantee no harm would have come to her.
The sad thing is, the cancellation plays right into her grubby hands. More fuel for her fire.
I dont agree with what she has to say, but i'd fight to the death for her right to say it.
Off topic, what is it Trip? Do you believe in freedom of speech or not? If so, shouldn't you allow us to commence any and all religious debates, as we see fit, in the war room?
Your comments in here tell me you firmly believe in free speech, but the rules for this booard directly contradict that.
So, is there freedom of speech here, or freedom of speech, as long as its not against your beliefs??
azoomm
03-25-2010, 11:25 AM
Off topic, what is it Trip? Do you believe in freedom of speech or not? If so, shouldn't you allow us to commence any and all religious debates, as we see fit, in the war room?
You can.
In the War Room. That's what it's for.
You can.
In the War Room. That's what it's for.
Didnt he make the war room open to heated debate on all topics but religion?? Or did he change his mind? Maybe im wrong, but I thought it was still a forbidden topic in there too.
Didnt he make the war room open to heated debate on all topics but religion?? Or did he change his mind? Maybe im wrong, but I thought it was still a forbidden topic in there too.
War room is now only seen by people who want to see it. Religious threads can go in there now, people who don't want to see that type of shit now don't have to see it unless they directly try to find it. So it is their fault if they get offended.
War room is mostly a free for all. Very little moderation as opposed to the rest of the board.
I believe free speech in the real world. This isn't the real world. Some members felt really unwelcome by the religious attacks on the board. So I banned a lot of stuff dealing with religion. I was able to find a workable solution to hide the religious topics from those who don't want to see it.
War room is now only seen by people who want to see it. Religious threads can go in there now, people who don't want to see that type of shit now don't have to see it unless they directly try to find it. So it is their fault if they get offended.
War room is mostly a free for all. Very little moderation as opposed to the rest of the board.
I believe free speech in the real world. This isn't the real world. Some members felt really unwelcome by the religious attacks on the board. So I banned a lot of stuff dealing with religion. I was able to find a workable solution to hide the religious topics from those who don't want to see it.
Fair enough. Im glad you saw it as an honest question, and not an attack on the way you run this board.
Other than that, I agree, this was a stupid mess that makes Canadians look bad, and gives idiots like Coulter more ammo for her future attacks.
Frankly, I cant stand the bitch, that doesnt mean she didnt deserve to be able to give her opinion, like she was there to do.
BUT... And there is a big but. She is using hate speech everywhere she opens her mouth. Her comments about muslims go far beyond what is reasonable. She has advocated the destruction of everyone who isnt a catholic on multiple occasions. Here at least, that is hate speech. So is signalling out one race that shouldnt be allowed to fly.
Coulter is no more than a racist and a bigot. I dont think anyone can argue with that. Inviting her to speak in a country like Canada, with such a different culture than your own (yes, we are very different in the way we think about the world), was a bad idea to begin with. We dont really walk the extreme right or extreme left wing lines you guys do. Even our conservative party is just as liberal as your democratic party. It would be hard to find a lot of people to agree with her, especially on a Canadian University Campus.
Coulter is no more than a racist and a bigot. I dont think anyone can argue with that. Inviting her to speak in a country like Canada, with such a different culture than your own (yes, we are very different in the way we think about the world), was a bad idea to begin with. We dont really walk the extreme right or extreme left wing lines you guys do. Even our conservative party is just as liberal as your democratic party. It would be hard to find a lot of people to agree with her, especially on a Canadian University Campus.
It did strike me as very odd that she was even up there. Can't imagine many canadians that far right for them to identify her. She is out there even by US standards.
It did strike me as very odd that she was even up there. Can't imagine many canadians that far right for them to identify her. She is out there even by US standards.
Its kind of a no win. If they refused to have her, they look horrible. But then something like this happens, and they look even worse.
karl_1052
03-25-2010, 12:57 PM
Also, is Canada now so pussified as to get offended when someone says "terrorist are only Muslim"? Can you give me one example of a non-Muslim terrorist? There is truth in that statement because it STATISTICALLY is true, even though it isn't PC.
FLQ
(canadian terrorists)
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 01:09 PM
Ya, us war loving Canadians have a horrible track record of harming public speakers we dont agree with...
She may have been boo'd off stage, it may have been a loud protest, but I guarantee no harm would have come to her.
The sad thing is, the cancellation plays right into her grubby hands. More fuel for her fire.
I dont agree with what she has to say, but i'd fight to the death for her right to say it.
Off topic, what is it Trip? Do you believe in freedom of speech or not? If so, shouldn't you allow us to commence any and all religious debates, as we see fit, in the war room?
Your comments in here tell me you firmly believe in free speech, but the rules for this booard directly contradict that.
So, is there freedom of speech here, or freedom of speech, as long as its not against your beliefs??
Ezrah Levant is as much of a whack-job as is Coulter, so what do you expect?
As to playing into her hands, it has now been confirmed that it was the organizers who pulled the plug. While I think it's a tinfoil hat issue, there are a few people positing that it was done for the publicity it was sure to garner.
Fair enough. Im glad you saw it as an honest question, and not an attack on the way you run this board.
Other than that, I agree, this was a stupid mess that makes Canadians look bad, and gives idiots like Coulter more ammo for her future attacks.
Frankly, I cant stand the bitch, that doesnt mean she didnt deserve to be able to give her opinion, like she was there to do.
BUT... And there is a big but. She is using hate speech everywhere she opens her mouth. Her comments about muslims go far beyond what is reasonable. She has advocated the destruction of everyone who isnt a catholic on multiple occasions. Here at least, that is hate speech. So is signalling out one race that shouldnt be allowed to fly.
Coulter is no more than a racist and a bigot. I dont think anyone can argue with that. Inviting her to speak in a country like Canada, with such a different culture than your own (yes, we are very different in the way we think about the world), was a bad idea to begin with. We dont really walk the extreme right or extreme left wing lines you guys do. Even our conservative party is just as liberal as your democratic party. It would be hard to find a lot of people to agree with her, especially on a Canadian University Campus.
Actually I'll argue that point. I don't think that she's a racist or a bigot. I think that she's an attention whore opportunist who is PROFITING from the stupidity of racists, bigots, and general knuckle-draggers.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 01:14 PM
FLQ
(canadian terrorists)
They were French. They don't count.
Ezrah Levant is as much of a whack-job as is Coulter, so what do you expect?
As to playing into her hands, it has now been confirmed that it was the organizers who pulled the plug. While I think it's a tinfoil hat issue, there are a few people positing that it was done for the publicity it was sure to garner.
Actually I'll argue that point. I don't think that she's a racist or a bigot. I think that she's an attention whore opportunist who is PROFITING from the stupidity of racists, bigots, and general knuckle-draggers.
Oh, I know she's an attention whore. But at the same time, she is also a racist and a bigot. She's profiting from the stupidity of her own kind.
Homeslice
03-25-2010, 01:32 PM
Many hate speech and related laws are dumb, for example the laws in Germany, Poland and France that make it illegal to question the validity of the Holocaust.
Many hate speech and related laws are dumb, for example the laws in Germany, Poland and France that make it illegal to question the validity of the Holocaust.
The holocaust may not have happened.
Ha ha, TWFix is banned from France.
Many hate speech and related laws are dumb, for example the laws in Germany, Poland and France that make it illegal to question the validity of the Holocaust.
How can you question the validity of facts? Are you saying the holocaust didnt happen? Doing so would be supporting the most evil regime of the last hundred years.
Are you saying the holocaust didnt happen? That jews werent killed en masse? The laws are there so people cant forget, or deny, the evil that happened during WW2. There is no questioning the validity, it happened, and we know it happened.
Homeslice
03-25-2010, 01:54 PM
How can you question the validity of facts? Are you saying the holocaust didnt happen? Doing so would be supporting the most evil regime of the last hundred years.
Are you saying the holocaust didnt happen? That jews werent killed en masse? The laws are there so people cant forget, or deny, the evil that happened during WW2. There is no questioning the validity, it happened, and we know it happened.
I'm not questioning the Holocaust, I'm questioning the need for laws against questioning the Holocaust.
Who is being harmed if Joe Blow stands up and claims the Holocaust never happened, or only killed 1 million Jews instead of 5 million?
If those countries are confident in their understanding of past events, why do they need to ban discussion of them? Sounds like a self-esteem issue to me.
goof2
03-25-2010, 02:21 PM
How can you question the validity of facts? Are you saying the holocaust didnt happen? Doing so would be supporting the most evil regime of the last hundred years.
Are you saying the holocaust didnt happen? That jews werent killed en masse? The laws are there so people cant forget, or deny, the evil that happened during WW2. There is no questioning the validity, it happened, and we know it happened.
Those laws prevent people from forgetting or denying the holocaust the same way anti-drug laws prevent people from using drugs (hint: neither work particularly well).
The IRA (financed in large part by Americans), the ETA in Spain, Action Directe in France, Aum Shinrikyo in Japan (sarin gas attack), and Tim McVeigh right here in America. There are plenty of non-Muslim terrorists, but they are outnumbered by Muslim terrorists.
elf, greenpeace etc :lol:
Homeslice
03-25-2010, 04:20 PM
Jewish Defense League
azoomm
03-25-2010, 04:23 PM
The holocaust may not have happened.
Ha ha, TWFix is banned from France.
Seems like the perfect place for a highly inappropriate product listing.
Click if you dare: [noticed we're not in the War Room] :wink:
Offensive Product CLICK (http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/dead_jew_child.jpg)
I'm not questioning the Holocaust, I'm questioning the need for laws against questioning the Holocaust.
Who is being harmed if Joe Blow stands up and claims the Holocaust never happened, or only killed 1 million Jews instead of 5 million?
If those countries are confident in their understanding of past events, why do they need to ban discussion of them? Sounds like a self-esteem issue to me.
They need to ban the topic so its not taught to children in schools. IMO, thats the biggest reason.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Jewish Defense League
I was wondering if anyone would think to mention them :lol:
Seems like the perfect place for a highly inappropriate product listing.
fake, didn't happen
Homeslice
03-25-2010, 07:20 PM
I was wondering if anyone would think to mention them :lol:
This is the West, we keep shit like that under wraps.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 07:26 PM
This is the West, we keep shit like that under wraps.
Take a look at the entry for Ernst Zundel on Wikipedia ;)
Homeslice
03-25-2010, 07:36 PM
Take a look at the entry for Ernst Zundel on Wikipedia ;)
Doing so will probably make the NSA red-flag my IP address :rolleyes:
Kaneman
03-25-2010, 07:58 PM
Good debate, tough call but I gotta side with Trip on this one. Not that I'm horribly offended that they ran Dan Coulter off, but I think it would've been more productive to let her speak and challenge her in fair debate...or something of the sort.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 08:17 PM
Doing so will probably make the NSA red-flag my IP address :rolleyes:
I guess you don't want to google Irv Rubin either then.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 08:22 PM
Good debate, tough call but I gotta side with Trip on this one. Not that I'm horribly offended that they ran Dan Coulter off, but I think it would've been more productive to let her speak and challenge her in fair debate...or something of the sort.
Definitely agreed, but "fair debate" is tough to obtain with someone who flings words like a monkey tosses shit from a tree, especially when the words are worth worse than that shit would be. As mentioned previously her response to a Muslim student who suggested that she didn't have a magic carpet to use, as Coulter had suggested, instead of riding in planes, was to tell her to try a camel instead.
Kaneman
03-25-2010, 08:24 PM
Definitely agreed, but "fair debate" is tough to obtain with someone who flings words like a monkey tosses shit from a tree, especially when the words are worth worse than that shit would be. As mentioned previously her response to a Muslim student who suggested that she didn't have a magic carpet to use, as Coulter had suggested, instead of riding in planes, was to tell her to try a camel instead.
And that incident now portrays her as a villain. Whereas the student's actions in this case make her look like a victim.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 08:25 PM
And that incident now portrays her as a villain. Whereas the student's actions in this case make her look like a victim.
More like a coward, since it was the organizers who scuttled the event and she hadn't come within miles of the campus.
Kaneman
03-25-2010, 08:27 PM
More like a coward, since it was the organizers who scuttled the event and she hadn't come within miles of the campus.
But she can easily spin it to be a violation of her free-speech, etc. etc. etc.
I say let Coulter take the stage and make a monumental ass of herself. Be sure to record it. Colleges should plan for this in advance, put their best debaters in the front row, and have them peaceably call her on her bullshit.
Papa_Complex
03-25-2010, 08:34 PM
But she can easily spin it to be a violation of her free-speech, etc. etc. etc.
I say let Coulter take the stage and make a monumental ass of herself. Be sure to record it. Colleges should plan for this in advance, put their best debaters in the front row, and have them peaceably call her on her bullshit.
As I said, so do I.
goof2
03-25-2010, 09:47 PM
Take a look at the entry for Ernst Zundel on Wikipedia ;)
Sounds like a complete deutsche-bag but I don't see anything that should be criminal with the exception of overstaying his visa. That he was deported only 2 weeks after he was arrested for it indicates he managed to garner some "special attention" from authorities, but he had to fuck up before they could do anything about it.
Papa_Complex
03-26-2010, 06:40 AM
Sounds like a complete deutsche-bag but I don't see anything that should be criminal with the exception of overstaying his visa. That he was deported only 2 weeks after he was arrested for it indicates he managed to garner some "special attention" from authorities, but he had to fuck up before they could do anything about it.
I was talking about the sections that refer to the fire and attempted bombing at his house, and the attempted break-in involving JDL members. Unfortunately any stories regarding the issue that would have made it to local papers have long since been archived so I can't confirm what is in Wikipedia without a trip to a library, that would involve an entire day of searching.
goof2
03-26-2010, 10:45 AM
I was talking about the sections that refer to the fire and attempted bombing at his house, and the attempted break-in involving JDL members. Unfortunately any stories regarding the issue that would have made it to local papers have long since been archived so I can't confirm what is in Wikipedia without a trip to a library, that would involve an entire day of searching.
I skimmed the entry and completely missed that part. I not sure how credible the claims are though. Wikipedia has entries for both JDL people accused of trying to break in to his house. Neither of their entries mention anything about the incident. The links to the claimed source material for the arson and attempted break in are both dated years after the incidents were supposed to have occurred as well.
I wouldn't go looking for archived material either. There is plenty of credible information readily available indicating that the JDL are bad guys.
Papa_Complex
03-26-2010, 10:59 AM
I skimmed the entry and completely missed that part. I not sure how credible the claims are though. Wikipedia has entries for both JDL people accused of trying to break in to his house. Neither of their entries mention anything about the incident. The links to the claimed source material for the arson and attempted break in are both dated years after the incidents were supposed to have occurred as well.
I wouldn't go looking for archived material either. There is plenty of credible information readily available indicating that the JDL are bad guys.
I think that the information on the Zundel Wikipedia entry is reflected on his personal website too, so it could be a case of "entry fixing." That's why I specifically mentioned that I couldn't confirm; I don't trust it.
As you say, there are enough other credible sources. Some of them talk about the activities of that American JDL member mentioned in the Zundel entry, who appears to be rather infamous. I was just familiar with that page, since I had done some recent searches as a result of Zundel's release.
karl_1052
03-26-2010, 12:47 PM
they loved her in Calgary
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/03/25/calgary-coulter-speech-university-.html
Papa_Complex
03-26-2010, 12:49 PM
As expected.
Sounds like the organizers knew what the fuck they were doing in Calgary.
Papa_Complex
03-26-2010, 01:07 PM
They prepared for the possibility of a larger turn-out than the venue could handle and they're in a more "conservative friendly" region.
Coulter doesn't care about Ottawa; her book sales took a big jump over the issue.
Levant doesn't care; he got huge press out of the issue, that helps support "his cause."
they're in a more "conservative friendly" region.
Oh good, I can go visit my parents then.
Homeslice
03-26-2010, 09:10 PM
The woman already has enough money to retire on, what's the purpose of continuing to make a fool of herself?
Papa_Complex
03-26-2010, 10:06 PM
Marcel Marceau continued performing almost until the day he died. Some people just go on thinking that the audience is laughing WITH them, instead of....
Smittie61984
03-29-2010, 07:49 PM
They used their right to free speech and assembly to "win". She's not the only one allowed to say what she wants. And it's obvious that hundreds of students didn't agree with what she had to say, they voiced that opinion, she left.
Freedom, it's not just for the person at the podium..
So we let the mob mentality rule? Just because you can get more people to scream doesn't mean they are in the right.
Ann Coulter bugs the piss out of me. But in this situation the students are in the wrong. I personally think that any student who disrupts any guest of the school should be expelled. It's that simple. You go to school to learn and also learn how to adapt to the real world. In any private sector job, if you disrupt a guest or speaker at your company, you'd be fired. Not because the company agrees with the speaker but because the company does not want to look bad. This college looks pathetic because it could not control its student body. The students involved should have a disciplanary action taken against them.
And yes, they are feeding an attention whore so good job guys.
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