How to Gauge Your Middle-Class Status

[LeeNetworX]

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgetingk/article/109155/how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status?mod=bb-budgeting

[WARputer]

Yup...that's us....in the middle.

[Cutty72]

Yeah, on the low end here...

[smileyman]

Yup, I am upper lower class. Of course my household I am the sole wage earner, temporarily, till Alex starts school this fall, freeing up the wife's time...

[shmike]

Median income of $81,000 with two cars averaging $45,000 each.

Scary.

[LeeNetworX]

Median income of $81,000 with two cars averaging $45,000 each.

Scary.

Absolutely. That's insane. Owning 2 cars where the 'at new' value of them are 111% of your yearly income.

We are at 37% and I consider that higher than I'd like.

[Rider]

Median income of $81,000 with two cars averaging $45,000 each.

Scary.

That was my thought too. :tremble:

[RACER X]

income is one factor, but cost of living is a whole other animal

$100+k is alot in TX but not alot in say CA or NY

car price seems out of wack.

[smileyman]

Just imagine where the auto industry would be if they hadn't used the consumers ability and gullibility to finance for 72 mon or pack onto their MTG new car prices? They took advantage.

And thats why my 83 Firebird has commuted for me for almost 19 yrs...

[goof2]

The middle class depends on credit to live beyond their means. Many of them/us are leveraged way beyond what would be considered prudent. The number for retirement savings is also shitty.

[RACER X]

The number for retirement savings is also shitty.

yeah it is, i just saw somewhere that only 43% of the pop. has some kind of retirement plan, and if its only $2600/yr, sounds like most familys spend as much on vac. as retirement every yr.

[smileyman]

I am right there on top of the bottom, bottom of the middle and can honestly say medical costs are what kills me. could finance a nice new Mustang or Camaro on what my med ins costs or what my coverage wont pay for. Medical, vision, and dental take 20 pct of my income in a family of 3.

[EpyonXero]

Im middle class but most of that list doesnt apply to me.

[goof2]

yeah it is, i just saw somewhere that only 43% of the pop. has some kind of retirement plan, and if its only $2600/yr, sounds like most familys spend as much on vac. as retirement every yr.

I think those numbers are pretty skewed as well. Those I know who really save for retirement make the most out of it by maxing out their 401k contribution. Every person who does that makes up for a lot of those whose "retirement plan" is social security and using the "keep the change" program at their bank.

[Homeslice]

And how do we know that everyone in this survey included their automatic deductions? A lot of people probably don't even know how much goes into their 401k every month.

[Dave]

Im middle class but most of that list doesnt apply to me.

me either. everything gets paid for in cash 'cept the house and my only vehicle from this side of the millenium is the blade. Everything else i fix and keep driving till the body rusts off :D. Poverty is the mother of invention :lol:

[Homeslice]

Median income of $81,000 with two cars averaging $45,000 each.

Scary.

I took that to mean 2 cars worth a TOTAL of $45,000. Especially since they said they're spending $12,400 per year on those cars, which wouldn't be enough to cover a $90,000 loan plus all the insurance and maintenance.

As for this: "About 18 percent of disposable income, on average, goes toward mortgage payments, auto loans, credit cards and other forms of household debt. "...........I am calling :bs: on that, it's got to be a lot higher.

[smileyman]

I agree homeslice. As a consumer and mtg loan officer I see debt to income ratios of 36 to 45 pct more often than not.

Another thing I wish the article would have covered is what pct of the population fits into their middle class metrics and how that has trended. That should show you something...

[goof2]

And how do we know that everyone in this survey included their automatic deductions? A lot of people probably don't even know how much goes into their 401k every month.

I don't know what the survey includes or doesn't. I also don't know if it counts company matching as savings. I'm just working with the numbers as they stated them. Those numbers indicate the average middle class person is going to be in pretty shitty shape when it comes to retirement.

[CrazyKell]

Im middle class but most of that list doesnt apply to me.


Same here.

No mortgage, no kids, no college funds, etc. :idk:

[shmike]

I took that to mean 2 cars worth a TOTAL of $45,000. Especially since they said they're spending $12,400 per year on those cars, which wouldn't be enough to cover a $90,000 loan plus all the insurance and maintenance.

As for this: "About 18 percent of disposable income, on average, goes toward mortgage payments, auto loans, credit cards and other forms of household debt. "...........I am calling :bs: on that, it's got to be a lot higher.

Yeah, I didn't see that until you pointed it out.

It says "with a new car value of $45k". Does that mean that these "middle classers" are driving two cars that could be replaced new for @ $22k each?

Most middle class people I know have at least one car that is over $35k new and I don't know of many $10k cars to be had.

Fuzzy writing. Either way I think the general consesus is that your typical American household spends too much ans saves too little. :idk:

[EpyonXero]

Yeah, I didn't see that until you pointed it out.

It says "with a new car value of $45k". Does that mean that these "middle classers" are driving two cars that could be replaced new for @ $22k each?

Most middle class people I know have at least one car that is over $35k new and I don't know of many $10k cars to be had.

Fuzzy writing. Either way I think the general consesus is that your typical American household spends too much ans saves too little. :idk:

I think quoting the new car value is misleading.

[Homeslice]

Most married riders I know, who are in their late 20's or early 30's.......Based on their occupations I'm gonna guess they pull down $120-150K between the two of them.........And in addition to a bike they typically have 2 vehicles, a truck and a car, like a Titan and an Acura TL........Not $45K rides. :idk: I guess if they lived in the Midwest things would be different since they wouldn't have a $400K mortgage.

[Rider]

Most married riders I know, who are in their late 20's or early 30's.......Based on their occupations I'm gonna guess they pull down $120-150K between the two of them.........And in addition to a bike they typically have 2 vehicles, a truck and a car, like a Titan and an Acura TL........Not $45K rides. :idk: I guess if they lived in the Midwest things would be different since they wouldn't have a $400K mortgage.

:lol Many, many, people have $400K+ in the mid west. I live in a poor neighborhood and that's where my house is valued at.

[Homeslice]

:lol Many, many, people have $400K+ in the mid west. I live in a poor neighborhood and that's where my house is valued at.

Of course, but I was talking about riders.....Who are 28-35 on average. And people in that age group typically don't buy large homes, especially if they don't have kids yet.

[shmike]

Most married riders I know, who are in their late 20's or early 30's.......Based on their occupations I'm gonna guess they pull down $120-150K between the two of them.........And in addition to a bike they typically have 2 vehicles, a truck and a car, like a Titan and an Acura TL........Not $45K rides. :idk: I guess if they lived in the Midwest things would be different since they wouldn't have a $400K mortgage.

You make it seem like a $45k ride is unheard of. This isn't 1992.

A nicely equipped TL prices out right at $44k.

A loaded Titan just under that.

[smileyman]

I know. I was shopping pretty serious and anything full size and remotely equipped is 30K no kidding. Sure you can get by with less and I will have to, but you have to work hard to finance a decent ride down in the 21-25K range...

[Homeslice]

You make it seem like a $45k ride is unheard of. This isn't 1992.

A nicely equipped TL prices out right at $44k.

A loaded Titan just under that.
If so, then that's a ripoff for what you get. A TL isn't worth as much as a 335 imo.

In any case, the cars I mentioned are on the higher end of what I see being owned by fellow riders. I know only 2 riders whose cars are more expensive than that.

I'd say the average is a 3-year old Tacoma and a 3-year old Altima or WRX (with 18-inch rims and a few mods of course, but nevertheless......)

This, for couples who pull down substantially more than the $81K cited in the article.

[Homeslice]

I know. I was shopping pretty serious and anything full size and remotely equipped is 30K no kidding. Sure you can get by with less and I will have to, but you have to work hard to finance a decent ride down in the 21-25K range...

VW GTI starts in that range

[goof2]

I know. I was shopping pretty serious and anything full size and remotely equipped is 30K no kidding. Sure you can get by with less and I will have to, but you have to work hard to finance a decent ride down in the 21-25K range...

In that price range I would go Mazdaspeed3, but I think you are talking about full size trucks. I agree that have to get a pretty stripped down model to come in under $25k.

[Homeslice]

If I was buying a truck I'd go used, because I don't see the point of paying big money for something that isn't very fun to drive. And even if a used truck breaks down, it's not like a German car that costs an arm and a leg to repair.

[Cutty72]

I want to make $81K...
Hell, I'd be happy with 45K!

[Homeslice]

I want to make $81K...
Hell, I'd be happy with 45K!

Remember, they said $81K was with 2 incomes

[Cutty72]

Remember, they said $81K was with 2 incomes

ok... in that case i would be happy with $55k

[smileyman]

i came across the figure somewhere saying Arkansas median household income was around 38 thou. So probably 2 incomes of minimum wage. No where close to middle class tho...

[tommymac]

witht the cars i wonder how often there replaced or upgraded. Are they like me or dave who kinda drivem till they die or are replacing them every 3 yrs. I paid around 26k I think for my accord 10 yrs ago so I def got my moneys worth out of it, as opposed to buying/financing a new vehicle every 4 or 5 yrs.

[Captain Morgan]

Hmm, difficult to really tell where I rank, as that is mainly talking about families. I'm way above the "single-parent, 2 kids" mark of 25k, but only have 1 kid. But I don't have a new car (mine's 13 years old with 218k miles), my house is only 1100 sq. foot upstairs, with 800 sq. foot of unfinished basement, I put 11% of my gross income into retirement savings, and 19% of my gross income goes to debt, including mortgage (should be 15%, but I'm paying extra on my mortgage each month). I'd really like to get the debt payment and retirement payment ratios swapped.

[unknownroad]

I took that to mean 2 cars worth a TOTAL of $45,000. Especially since they said they're spending $12,400 per year on those cars, which wouldn't be enough to cover a $90,000 loan plus all the insurance and maintenance.

As for this: "About 18 percent of disposable income, on average, goes toward mortgage payments, auto loans, credit cards and other forms of household debt. "...........I am calling :bs: on that, it's got to be a lot higher.

It's a pretty shitty article all around in terms of defining these numbers. It doesn't actually specify whether the $12k does or does not include insurance, fuel, repairs, etc. If it's all-inclusive, then the $45k would have to be combined vehicle value. If it's $12k on the cars themselves, then that would be pretty close financing a pair of $45k vehicles. :idk:

And the 18% is just bizarre, since their average $17,600 mortgage payment alone comes out to almost 22% of their median income figure. :doh: Granted, i guess the 18% figure includes people with no mortgage or car payment, and ignores home rental and possibly car leasing costs, but still...

[Homeslice]

$90K divided by a 5 year loan is $18K/year, and that's not including interest. Even if they were 6-year loans, it's still $15K/year.

[lauralynne]

Most of that doesn't apply to me. But I consider myself upper middle. Very low debt to income ration, no consumer debt, putting away over 20% of our earnings towards retirement. Value of our cars doesn't count - we have several classics worth upwards of $100k each, our "daily drivers" aren't worth $20k total. We're frugal to the last penny.

[smileyman]

$90K divided by a 5 year loan is $18K/year, and that's not including interest. Even if they were 6-year loans, it's still $15K/year.

90 thou at 6 pct for 72 mon is 1491.56 per mo or 17898.72 per yr.
45 Thou at 6 pct for 72 mo is 745.78 per mo and 8949.36 annually.

I think to afford the 90 thou 2 car scheme you would have to be near the upper metric from this article in order to meet a typical 36 pct debt to income ratio most banks use as a rule of thumb...
The second scheme is much more plausible.

[101lifts2]

....And thats why my 83 Firebird has commuted for me for almost 19 yrs...

And the fact that GM builds the best cars in the world.

[101lifts2]

I'm at the upper middle class income level. Mortgage, car payment and bike payment.