Leaked video shows 'indiscriminate slaying' in Iraq

[pdog]

http://www.collateralmurder.com/


WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.

[goof2]

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.

While the link says Reuters has been trying unsuccessfully to obtain a copy of the video through an FOIA request, it never mentions the fact that Reuters editors in Baghdad were shown the video within 2 weeks of the incident. I don't know anything about the incident itself so I am not comfortable commenting on it, but ignoring facts and naming the link "Collateral Murder" calls Wikileaks' credibility in to question for me.

[derf]

I watched most of it, and yes it is very questionable, but there is alot that video says and doesn't say. Why were they looking at that group of men (with weapons)? Was there any specific intelligence? Other than that, the pilots were fired on first.

As for the kids, did you see them the first time the video rolled? I didn't.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but there are other questions that need to be asked before judgement is passed.

[pauldun170]

"Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle"
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=42b_1270489420

[fatbuckRTO]

Wow, news fucking flash. In the hottest part of the Iraq war sometimes the wrong people got killed. And yet another fucking news flash, when US troops kill who they think are insurgents they talk shit about it. The insurgents in both wars are well known for hiding amongst "non-combatants" and otherwise involving "innocent women and children." But, I tell you, it's great that this video got leaked now. Because we wouldn't want to try to move on and develop the relative stability when we could dwell on a tragic mistake that has already been investigated.

[Smittie61984]

Good stuff!

Though for future reference I guess we should give pictures to pilots so they know every photographer covering the war. For that I blame Bush.

[pauldun170]

AP source confirms video of Baghdad firefight
By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer Anne Flaherty, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 46 mins ago

WASHINGTON – A gritty war video circulating on the Internet that shows U.S. troops firing repeatedly on a group of men — some of whom were unarmed — walking down a Baghdad street is authentic, a senior U.S. military official confirmed Monday.

The official said the video posted at Wikileaks.org was of a July 12, 2007, firefight involving Army helicopters in the New Baghdad District of eastern Baghdad.

Among those believed to have been killed in that attack was Reuters photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and his driver Saeed Chmagh, 40. Two children also were wounded.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the video, said the military could not confirm the identities of the Reuters employees in the film.

The Pentagon would not confirm the video's authenticity on the record, despite repeated requests from The Associated Press.

"At this time, we are working to verify the source of the video, its veracity, and when or where it was recorded," a statement from U.S. military headquarters in Iraq said late Monday.

The military also provided redacted copies of portions of its inquiry into the July 2007 incident, again without confirming that the incident described in those documents is the same one posted by Wikileaks.

According to a July 19 summary of the investigation, U.S. troops acted appropriately. Reuters employees were likely "intermixed among the insurgents" and difficult to distinguish because of their equipment, the document states.

"It is worth noting the fact that insurgent groups often video and photograph friendly activity and insurgent attacks against friendly forces for use in training videos and for use as propaganda to exploit or highlight their capabilities," the document concludes.

The incident has been reported before, but the video had not been released.

The video provides a rare, disturbing close-up of modern urban warfare at a time when violence was near its peak in Baghdad and the U.S. death toll was mounting.

In this incident, soldiers flying attack helicopters were called in to assist ground troops who had been pinned down by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades.

According to U.S. officials, the pilots arrived at the scene to find a group of men approaching the fight with what looked to be AK-47s slung over their shoulders and at least one rocket-propelled grenade.

A military investigation later concluded that what was thought to be an RPG was really a long-range photography lens; likewise, the camera looked like an AK-47.

Wikileaks.org posts video and documents passed along by anonymous sources. They posted the video of the July 2007 firefight at "collateralmurder.com."

The shooters can be heard asking for permission to engage, and one says "Light 'em up!"

Some men drop immediately, while at least one can be seen scrambling to get away.

"Ah, yeah, look at those dead bastards. Nice," one shooter says.

The helicopters later destroy a vehicle that arrived on the scene to help a wounded man. When ground forces arrive, the video shows what looks to be a child being carried from the vehicle and U.S. troops saying the child should be sent to a local Iraqi hospital.

"Well, it's their fault bringing their kids into the battle," a cockpit voice can be heard saying.

Navy Capt. Jake Hanzlik, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command, said U.S. forces in Iraq recognize many of the images in the video posted at Wikileaks.org and have no reason to believe it is a fake. However, he said, they were still comparing the video and audio to see if it matched their own.

Headquartered at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Fla., Central Command is responsible for U.S. military operations in the Middle East and Central Asia.

Reuters said it couldn't verify that the video was of its employees dying, even though it looks like one of the men killed had a camera slung over his shoulder.

The video is "graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result," said David Schlesinger, editor-in-chief of Reuters news.

[Kaneman]

And this is why war waged by an unrelated third party can not be used for peace.

[EpyonXero]

The Times article on this gives a pretty fair explaination I think, apparently there was an engagement between insurgents and US troops nearby which is why the photographer was therein the first place. If you watch the video you see that a couple of the guys were carying assault rifles and the photographer knelt down behind a wall and pointed his camera at the Apache which they thought was an RPG. I can see why they engaged.

The only think Im not sure about is why they opened fire on the van, maybe to protect the ground troops coming in to clean up or to keep them from distubing the scene.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/middleeast/06baghdad.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Video Shows American Killing of Photographer
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
WASHINGTON — The Web site WikiLeaks.org released a graphic video on Monday showing an American helicopter shooting and killing a Reuters photographer and driver in a July 2007 attack in Baghdad.

A senior American military official confirmed that the video was authentic.

Reuters had long pressed for the release of the video, which consists of 38 minutes of black-and-white aerial video and conversations between pilots in two Apache helicopters as they open fire on people on a street in Baghdad. The attack killed 12, among them the Reuters photographer, Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and the driver, Saeed Chmagh, 40.

At a news conference at the National Press Club, WikiLeaks said it had acquired the video from whistle-blowers in the military and viewed it after breaking the encryption code. WikiLeaks edited the video to 17 minutes.

David Schlesinger, the editor in chief of Reuters news, said in a statement that the video was “graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result.”

On the day of the attack, United States military officials said that the helicopters had been called in to help American troops who had been exposed to small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades in a raid. “There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force,” Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a spokesman for the multinational forces in Baghdad, said then.

But the video does not show hostile action. Instead, it begins with a group of people milling around on a street, among them, according to WikiLeaks, Mr. Noor-Eldeen and Mr. Chmagh. The pilots believe them to be insurgents, and mistake Mr. Noor-Eldeen’s camera for a weapon. They aim and fire at the group, then revel in their kills.

“Look at those dead bastards,” one pilot says. “Nice,” the other responds.

A wounded man can be seen crawling and the pilots impatiently hope that he will try to fire at them so that under the rules of engagement they can shoot him again. “All you gotta do is pick up a weapon,” one pilot says.

A short time later a van arrives to pick up the wounded and the pilots open fire on it, wounding two children inside. “Well, it’s their fault for bringing their kids into a battle,” one pilot says.

At another point, an American armored vehicle arrives and appears to roll over one of the dead. “I think they just drove over a body,” one of the pilots says, chuckling a little.

Reuters said at the time that the two men had been working on a report about weightlifting when they heard about a military raid in the neighborhood, and decided to drive there to check it out.

“There had been reports of clashes between U.S. forces and insurgents in the area but there was no fighting on the streets in which Namir was moving about with a group of men,” Reuters wrote in 2008. “It is believed two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although witnesses said none were assuming a hostile posture at the time.”

The American military in Baghdad investigated the episode and concluded that the forces involved had no reason to know that there were Reuters employees in the group. No disciplinary action was taken.

Late Monday, the United States Central Command, which oversees the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, released the redacted report on the case, which provided some more detail.

The report showed pictures of what it said were machine guns and grenades found near the bodies of those killed. It also stated that the Reuters employees “made no effort to visibly display their status as press or media representatives and their familiar behavior with, and close proximity to, the armed insurgents and their furtive attempts to photograph the coalition ground forces made them appear as hostile combatants to the Apaches that engaged them.”


Brian Stelter contributed reporting from New York.

[EpyonXero]

Good article on this from Defense Tech with links to the CENTCOM report:
http://defensetech.org/2010/04/06/centcom-releases-report-on-apache-gun-camera-video/

About engaging the van:

The pilots also had reports from the ground troops that a vehicle, they weren’t sure what kind, was dropping off and picking up fighters in the area. They assumed the van was that vehicle. An unidentified Lt. Col. Who conducted the 15–6 investigation, possibly from JAG, asks the pilot why he shot the van when there were no weapons visible:

LTC: Did you see anything in the van?

Pilot: I couldn’t see inside the van, but they ran around right after I had seen them extract weapons and individuals.

LTC: As you saw on the tape, they didn’t have any weapons. So, what drove you then? What threat made you want to engage the van?

Pilot: Well the friendlies were 300 meters away and from the initial report that a black car, sedan had been coming in and dropping off insurgents, taking them out, moving them to different locations. That was my whole thought process.

[z06boy]

The long lense aimed at the chopper from around the corner did look like an RPG imho. War is he!! and $hit happens. If you choose to be a war correspondant or a battlefield photographer...you know the risk. :idk:

[unknownroad]

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed upwards of 100,000 civilians.

The war between the United States and Japan was ended less than four years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, in a decisive victory for the United States.

The "9/11" event took place over 8 years ago.

Just sayin'.

[Kaneman]

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed upwards of 100,000 civilians.

The war between the United States and Japan was ended less than four years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, in a decisive victory for the United States.

The "9/11" event took place over 8 years ago.

Just sayin'.

What exactly are you just sayin'?

[pauldun170]

The long lense aimed at the chopper from around the corner did look like an RPG imho. War is he!! and $hit happens. If you choose to be a war correspondant or a battlefield photographer...you know the risk. :idk:

I think everyone understands the risks, everyone understands that shit happens. This is a case of "shit happens".

I'm not going to get on Reuters case because they want to get the truth to what happened to their colleague, to bring closure.

[z06boy]

I think everyone understands the risks, everyone understands that shit happens. This is a case of "shit happens".

I'm not going to get on Reuters case because they want to get the truth to what happened to their colleague, to bring closure.

I'm not "on their case" either. I said that they know the risk and that "$hit happens"...my main point is that if I was in the chopper and saw that lense being aimed at me from around a corner (looking alot like an RPG)and was given clearance to fire...BAM I would have fired too.

All I'm saying is that I don't blame the guys in the chopper at all...it's war.

I didn't slam Reuters at all. :idk:

[shmike]

The long lense aimed at the chopper from around the corner did look like an RPG imho. War is he!! and $hit happens. If you choose to be a war correspondant or a battlefield photographer...you know the risk. :idk:


Yep.

Editor-in-chief said as much himself:

The video is "graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result," said David Schlesinger, editor-in-chief of Reuters news.

[Homeslice]

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed upwards of 100,000 civilians.

The war between the United States and Japan was ended less than four years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, in a decisive victory for the United States.

The "9/11" event took place over 8 years ago.

Just sayin'.

:?:

The Pearl Harbor comparison would work better if this was Al Queda, not Iraq.

[unknownroad]

What exactly are you just sayin'?

You saw what i just said, din'cha? :idk: The moral of the story is: if an armed military aircraft belonging to a foreign power is overhead, you're probably not standing in a good place.

[Kaneman]

You saw what i just said, din'cha? :idk: The moral of the story is: if an armed military aircraft belonging to a foreign power is overhead, you're probably not standing in a good place.

Oh right on....it seemed to me like you were advocating dropping nukes on Afghanistan and Iraq.

[pauldun170]

I'm not "on their case" either. I said that they know the risk and that "$hit happens"...my main point is that if I was in the chopper and saw that lense being aimed at me from around a corner (looking alot like an RPG)and was given clearance to fire...BAM I would have fired too.

All I'm saying is that I don't blame the guys in the chopper at all...it's war.

I didn't slam Reuters at all. :idk:

I know what you said. I wasn't disputing anything.
do you know what I said?

You saw what i just said, din'cha? :idk: The moral of the story is: if an armed military aircraft belonging to a foreign power is overhead, you're probably not standing in a good place.

:lol:

[z06boy]

I know what you said. I wasn't disputing anything.
do you know what I said?



Absolutely :scratch:

[pauldun170]

Absolutely :scratch:

Then if thats the case I'm going to post the same smiles so that we are in synch.

:scratch:

[z06boy]

Then if thats the case I'm going to post the same smiles so that we are in synch.

:scratch:


ok