How is this oil spill not a big deal?

[NONE_too_SOFT]

Its already surpassed the amount of crude dumped into the ecosystem by the exxon valdez tanker years ago, and EVERYBODY knows about that. It was a generational catastrophe.

And now we've got this huge rig thats been dumping oil into the ocean for weeks, (over 4000 square miles covered), and the only people whom seem to care are the sensationalist news networks affecting its price on gas.

I didnt even see a thread around here about it.

A lot of you LIVE near the gulf coast, and this is going to begin to directly impact you in the near future (if it already hasnt). what are your thoughts?

[Trip]

This is destroying my hometown. I am from Buras, LA; which is just north of Venice, LA where the spill has started to come ashore. All that seafood that keeps that town alive can no longer be fished or shrimped. They still haven't fully recovered from Katrina, this is just going to make everything so much worse.

[shmike]

I'm not sure either.

It baffles me why this isn't plastered everywhere.

Where's Kanye telling us that Barack Obama doesn't care about coastal people?

[NONE_too_SOFT]

seriously, this could turn out to be barracks katrina, and nobody seems to give a fuck because they'd rather bitch about a 10% tan tax.

exxon valdez didnt even happen near the continental US, this is happening right on our doorstep.

[azoomm]

This is destroying my hometown. I am from Buras, LA; which is just north of Venice, LA where the spill has started to come ashore. All that seafood that keeps that town alive can no longer be fished or shrimped. They still haven't fully recovered from Katrina, this is just going to make everything so much worse.

:(

I'm sorry, I thought it WAS plastered everywhere. At least, I see it plastered everywhere.

[Sean]

That and a car bomb was set off in the middle of Times Square and it's barely making the news. I don't understand what's going on.

[AquaPython]

it is going to get really fucking bad, this rig is spitting something like 200k Gallons a day from the sea floor and nobody knows how to stop it. on top of that, clean up methods are getting fucked up due to increment weather, etc.

i think it is possible that this is getting down played by government hand right now. The red's finally got Obama to concede to off shore drilling, and he was just talking about how safe, and what a good idea they are a few weeks ago... just a thought.

[tommymac]

it is going to get really fucking bad, this rig is spitting something like 200k Gallons a day from the sea floor and nobody knows how to stop it. on top of that, clean up methods are getting fucked up due to increment weather, etc.

i think it is possible that this is getting down played by government hand right now. The red's finally got Obama to concede to off shore drilling, and he was just talking about how safe, and what a good idea they are a few weeks ago... just a thought.

Seems some are ragging obama for not doing enough on this one. I think now that its comming ashore more will see the impact of all this esp when it starts hitting peoples liveleyhood sp? the way trip mentioned.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

it is going to get really fucking bad, this rig is spitting something like 200k Gallons a day from the sea floor and nobody knows how to stop it. on top of that, clean up methods are getting fucked up due to increment weather, etc.

i think it is possible that this is getting down played by government hand right now. The red's finally got Obama to concede to off shore drilling, and he was just talking about how safe, and what a good idea they are a few weeks ago... just a thought.

yea the environmentalists really got to say "i told you so" early on this one.

[azoomm]

it is going to get really fucking bad, this rig is spitting something like 200k Gallons a day from the sea floor and nobody knows how to stop it. on top of that, clean up methods are getting fucked up due to increment weather, etc.

i think it is possible that this is getting down played by government hand right now. The red's finally got Obama to concede to off shore drilling, and he was just talking about how safe, and what a good idea they are a few weeks ago... just a thought.

NO, they know HOW to. It's about getting the equipment there to do it. :wink: That will take months [best guess]

[shmike]

NO, they know HOW to. It's about getting the equipment there to do it. :wink: That will take months [best guess]

I've heard that.

My question is why?

What could possibly take months to make that happen?

[AquaPython]

What they KNOW how to do thus far is fail with gusto. The only thing that is helping/working is the never-before-done, submerged (at the flow point), chemical dispersant.

i saw an article today saying it could take a 7 - 9 days to re-drill it.

[azoomm]

I've heard that.

My question is why?

What could possibly take months to make that happen?

Because it's big fucking equipment. It's probably already on it's way there - the Exxon Valdez wasn't cleaned up overnight either... This was a catestrophic accident, everything that wasn't supposed to happen - happened. A blow-out while capping a line isn't "supposed" to happen. And, the leak on the ocean floor isn't measureable. I'm not defending any of it - not in any way. But, getting shit there isn't going to be fast. A big part of it is where they need to bring the equipment from.

[shmike]

Because it's big fucking equipment. It's probably already on it's way there - the Exxon Valdez wasn't cleaned up overnight either... This was a catestrophic accident, everything that wasn't supposed to happen - happened. A blow-out while capping a line isn't "supposed" to happen. And, the leak on the ocean floor isn't measureable. I'm not defending any of it - not in any way. But, getting shit there isn't going to be fast. A big part of it is where they need to bring the equipment from.

Where are they bringing it from?

Shouldn't they have a few of these "things" staged around the world to be moved into place in case of emergency?

I'm sure this stuff is big but can they not travel faster than a few knots with the equipment?

I know you aren't defending it, I'm genuinely curious.

[AquaPython]

This is precisely why they need to NOT fucking drill off shore at all, but especially with new platforms in the atlantic.
At least the gulf is a giant, oxygen-starved, polluted, near-dead hole. This would a real fucking disaster if it happened in the atlantic.

[Avatard]

That and a car bomb was set off in the middle of Times Square and it's barely making the news. I don't understand what's going on.

Fox News overload.

Sensationalism overload.

Fear overload.

Terrorism overload.

Propaganda overload.

Tea Party Indignation overload.

I think we're all too tired to be up in arms about much anymore.

No one knows who to trust, who to listen to, or who will come to their aid, anymore.

The government seems powerless anymore. The cops are ineffective anymore. Laws are irrational, and their implementation often unconstitutional anymore. Cities, towns, and even states are going broke, infrastructure hopelessly broken. What seems like a recent spate of natural disasters has broken things down even more, leaving more and more people with no one to look to for help.

The reason no one is outraged anymore, is that it's become quite obvious that there's no one to become outraged AT anymore, when even government is unresponsive.

The government is no longer of the people. It belongs to corporations and banks. The people are already too burned out from being fleeced and terrorized to blink much anymore.

Another storm? Another bomb? Another disaster? Am I next?

I need to buckle down, look after my own.

Only anarchy can come from this.

I think a once great nation is in decline.

The irony is that the "terrorist's" role in over-terrorizing the populous is literally secondary in scope to that of media and government's roles.

They do more to destabilize things than the terrorists. They do it for one reason: Money. Fear sells shit, makes new laws, creates new government offices to enforce them. Fear is what they feed on.

Problem is, they've pushed the button too hard, and too often, and people are too broke, tired, and beaten to react with much vigor anymore.

Geez, another bomb? Another disaster? Is American Idol on? Pass the Cheezy Poofs...

[shmike]

Fox News overload.

Sensationalism overload.

Fear overload.

Terrorism overload.

Propaganda overload.

Tea Party Indignation overload.

I think we're all too tired to be up in arms about much anymore.

No one knows who to trust, who to listen to, or who will come to their aid, anymore.

The government seems powerless anymore. The cops are ineffective anymore. Laws are irrational, and their implementation often unconstitutional anymore. Cities, towns, and even states are going broke, infrastructure hopelessly broken. What seems like a recent spate of natural disasters has broken things down even more, leaving more and more people with no one to look to for help.

The reason no one is outraged anymore, is that it's become quite obvious that there's no one to become outraged AT anymore, when even government is unresponsive.

The government is no longer of the people. It belongs to corporations and banks. The people are already too burned out from being fleeced and terrorized to blink much anymore.

Another storm? Another bomb? Another disaster? Am I next?

I need to buckle down, look after my own.

Only anarchy can come from this.

I think a once great nation is in decline.

The irony is that the "terrorist's" role in over-terrorizing the populous is literally secondary in scope to that of media and government's roles.

They do more to destabilize things than the terrorists. They do it for one reason: Money. Fear sells shit, makes new laws, creates new government offices to enforce them. Fear is what they feed on.

Problem is, they've pushed the button too hard, and too often, and people are too broke, tired, and beaten to react with much vigor anymore.

Geez, another bomb? Another disaster? Is American Idol on? Pass the Cheezy Poofs...

Sounds like a book I read...

[Homeslice]

This is precisely why they need to NOT fucking drill off shore at all, but especially with new platforms in the atlantic.
At least the gulf is a giant, oxygen-starved, polluted, near-dead hole. This would a real fucking disaster if it happened in the atlantic.

Pretty much.

Yet somehow, conservatives have succeeded in portraying increased offshore drilling is "imperative to our national security and self-reliance" :lol

It's such a joke.

[azoomm]

The government is no longer of the people. It belongs to corporations and banks. The people are already too burned out from being fleeced and terrorized to blink much anymore.

.....

Geez, another bomb? Another disaster? Is American Idol on? Pass the Cheezy Poofs...

yes.

And, the oil/gas industry is THE big machine. It's the only industry that will throw money at a problem until it goes away, without really being affected. BP is the largest of those big machines. TransOcean is one of the largest contractors. It will all come down to lawsuits as to who is responsible.

[KSGregman]

Fox News overload.

Sensationalism overload.

Fear overload.

Terrorism overload.

Propaganda overload.

Tea Party Indignation overload.

I think we're all too tired to be up in arms about much anymore.

No one knows who to trust, who to listen to, or who will come to their aid, anymore.

The government seems powerless anymore. The cops are ineffective anymore. Laws are irrational, and their implementation often unconstitutional anymore. Cities, towns, and even states are going broke, infrastructure hopelessly broken. What seems like a recent spate of natural disasters has broken things down even more, leaving more and more people with no one to look to for help.

The reason no one is outraged anymore, is that it's become quite obvious that there's no one to become outraged AT anymore, when even government is unresponsive.

The government is no longer of the people. It belongs to corporations and banks. The people are already too burned out from being fleeced and terrorized to blink much anymore.

Another storm? Another bomb? Another disaster? Am I next?

I need to buckle down, look after my own.

Only anarchy can come from this.

I think a once great nation is in decline.

The irony is that the "terrorist's" role in over-terrorizing the populous is literally secondary in scope to that of media and government's roles.

They do more to destabilize things than the terrorists. They do it for one reason: Money. Fear sells shit, makes new laws, creates new government offices to enforce them. Fear is what they feed on.

Problem is, they've pushed the button too hard, and too often, and people are too broke, tired, and beaten to react with much vigor anymore.

Geez, another bomb? Another disaster? Is American Idol on? Pass the Cheezy Poofs...

Fecking hell...it's Monday...I'm stuck in the office while it's sunny and a near perfect 70 something outside...AND I fully agree with a post by Avatard. Wow...

Having said that, though....the Gulf is FILLED with oil rigs...why would there NOT be emergency equipment on station in that area? I understand that none of it was SUPPPOSED to happen (they are called "accidents" for a reason" afterall...but...fires aren't supposed to happen either. Every city I've ever been in had a Fire Department with at least a station or two of equipment and trained personel on hand just in case.

[the chi]

I havent seen alot on it and am just as surprised, especially since it will already have started affecting livelihoods and the folks that live there. I was reading the local news from where I lived and they are talking about getting volunteers in line to begin cleanup when it hits, for the environment and wildlife.

[Homeslice]

It's been all over CNN's homepage for the last week or so :shrug:

The only reason your local news might not cover it is because.......They know from past experience that most Americans care more about celebrities and other "human interest" stories.

[azoomm]

Fecking hell...it's Monday...I'm stuck in the office while it's sunny and a near perfect 70 something outside...AND I fully agree with a post by Avatard. Wow...

Having said that, though....the Gulf is FILLED with oil rigs...why would there NOT be emergency equipment on station in that area? I understand that none of it was SUPPPOSED to happen (they are called "accidents" for a reason" afterall...but...fires aren't supposed to happen either. Every city I've ever been in had a Fire Department with at least a station or two of equipment and trained personel on hand just in case.

To pull a semi off a current job isn't necessarily possible. To rush that causes another accident - no one wants that. To send a new one takes even longer [took 60+ days for my husband to bring one from Mauritius to Trinidad] and most are in dock in Singapore-Korea.

This happened when they were capping a line - This is in 3000 feet of water, you need more than just nother rig - it would take at least another semi-submersable. Transocean's other rigs in the gulf are moored [anchored] - and the other BP rigs are contracted through other companies. It's complicated.

[Cass]

To pull a semi off a current job isn't necessarily possible. To rush that causes another accident - no one wants that. To send a new one takes even longer [took 60+ days for my husband to bring one from Mauritius to Trinidad] and most are in dock in Singapore-Korea.

This happened when they were capping a line - This is in 3000 feet of water, you need more than just nother rig - it would take at least another semi-submersable. Transocean's other rigs in the gulf are moored [anchored] - and the other BP rigs are contracted through other companies. It's complicated.

The normal population doesn't typically keep up with these kinds of things... thanks for the info :)

[AquaPython]

all aboard the off-shore drilling express, next stop alcoholism and suicide!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100503/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_alaska

[MILK]

I was in Alaska not terribly long after the spill up there. The locals laughed about it and how the media evidently played it up. They said it wasn't remotely as bad as portrayed. They still like getting those checks though! :lol: It was kind of shocking when I was up there to hear that..

This one certainly SEEMS quite different. We can only hope they are able to get a handle on it. :(

[goof2]

Pretty much.

Yet somehow, conservatives have succeeded in portraying increased offshore drilling is "imperative to our national security and self-reliance" :lol

It's such a joke.

I'm not sure how offshore drilling could be seen as anything else. The facts are that America requires massive amounts of oil to function and there is no viable alternative on the horizon. I would love it if some magical substance or process was able to power our vehicles, homes, and businesses while providing the necessary base for the plastics and other composites we make and use. Unfortunately that substance or process doesn't currently exist.

We are stuck with oil for the time being and depending on other countries to provide the majority of that oil certainly does nothing to promote our own self-reliance. As far as national security, we do get some of our imports from "friendly" "stable" countries. Our largest source, one of the most "stable", and probably the "friendliest" country is Canada. Mexico is also a large source, is semi-friendly, and semi-stable. Once those two are covered (accounting for around 30% of imports) the remaining top importers make up a pretty unsavory list. Voluntarily depending on them for any more of a substance that is absolutely vital to our nation than is necessary would strike me as the joke if it weren't so damn sad.

[LeeNetworX]

"I weep for the future."

- Snooty maitre d in 'Ferris Beuller's Day Off'

[Homeslice]

I'm not sure how offshore drilling could be seen as anything else. The facts are that America requires massive amounts of oil to function and there is no viable alternative on the horizon. I would love it if some magical substance or process was able to power our vehicles, homes, and businesses while providing the necessary base for the plastics and other composites we make and use. Unfortunately that substance or process doesn't currently exist.

We are stuck with oil for the time being and depending on other countries to provide the majority of that oil certainly does nothing to promote our own self-reliance. As far as national security, we do get some of our imports from "friendly" "stable" countries. Our largest source, one of the most "stable", and probably the "friendliest" country is Canada. Mexico is also a large source, is semi-friendly, and semi-stable. Once those two are covered (accounting for around 30% of imports) the remaining top importers make up a pretty unsavory list. Voluntarily depending on them for any more of a substance that is absolutely vital to our nation than is necessary would strike me as the joke if it weren't so damn sad.

Nobody is forcing us to buy from any given country. Would increasing Canada and Mexico's share really be so hard? And what about Brazil?

More importantly, why deplete our own resources when we don't have to? Why not keep them in reserve, and then sell them at a substantial profit 20-30 years from now when everyone else has depleted theirs?

[ontwo]

The Alabama coastal tourism is fucked for this summer. Like Trip said, a bunch of fishers/shrimpers are majorly fucked

[azoomm]

It's more about killing off someone else's supply than "needing" to buy from one source or another.

Evan just told me they probably have ships there just getting ready - the hard part is it needs to be done with ROV's because of the depth. And, if it is how the news reports it, it's fluid leaking from the ocean floor. That means they have to build a "structure" to prevent it from leaking. It's not an everyday activity. Capping a line is done all the time. There is no line to cap...

The bummer is the rap BP will get for this - TRANSOCEAN is who did this, not BP.

[goof2]

Nobody is forcing us to buy from any given country. Would increasing Canada and Mexico's share really be so hard? And what about Brazil?

More importantly, why deplete our own resources when we don't have to? Why not keep them in reserve, and then sell them at a substantial profit 20-30 years from now when everyone else has depleted theirs?

As I understand it Canada and Mexico don't have surplus production just laying around and aren't significantly increasing production. We can't import what they don't produce. Brazil is no solution either as they are a net crude oil importer, not exporter. They do sell us around 200k barrels per day of crude which amounts to around 35% of their total exports, but that only amounts to around 2% of our total crude imports.

Why depend on some seriously flaky countries for more of a substance that has a large effect on our economic future than we absolutely have to? Your argument also depends on there being no alternative to crude oil being developed in the next 20-30 years. I hope like hell that isn't the case.

[Cutty72]

On the news they were talking about drilling a new hole to relieve the pressure. That's all I caught of it.

[Kaneman]

BP didn't even have a fucking response plan because they deemed what's happening now to be nearly impossible.

You know, I bet if I took 10 5 gallon buckets full of used motor oil out to the Ocean and the Coast Guard caught me dumping them...I'd go to jail right then and there...

[KSGregman]

Your argument also depends on there being no alternative to crude oil being developed in the next 20-30 years. I hope like hell that isn't the case.

Take a long look at the State mandated, and utterly HUGE investment, China is making in alternative energy...solar...wind...bio. ALL of it....they are going to be THE next supplier of the world's energy....alternative energy. Instead of sending all of our liquidity to Saudi Arabia we'll send it to China...and then they WILL own us outright....they already finance our staggering national debt....they'll soak up our liquidity next.

I can't believe that we are going to be out innovated by the Chinese. Actually, that's not entirely accurate. We are going to send our best innovators to China as we are unable/unwilling to create conditions for them to be successful here in America.

Instead of DOING IT....we're likely to have it DONE TO US.

Again. :/

[goof2]

It's more about killing off someone else's supply than "needing" to buy from one source or another.

Evan just told me they probably have ships there just getting ready - the hard part is it needs to be done with ROV's because of the depth. And, if it is how the news reports it, it's fluid leaking from the ocean floor. That means they have to build a "structure" to prevent it from leaking. It's not an everyday activity. Capping a line is done all the time. There is no line to cap...

The bummer is the rap BP will get for this - TRANSOCEAN is who did this, not BP.

Transocean may be done. I suspect the costs of this accident are going to dwarf those of the Exxon Valdez and I'm not sure Transocean is in a position to survive them. If that is the case BP is going to be the one left holding the bag.

Even if Transocean does survive they don't have the public image to protect like BP does. If the public feels BP isn't doing enough I could see a groundswell of support for an "I'm not buying gas from them!" campaign. Transocean has no such worries since the general public is not their consumer.

[Kaneman]

BTW, this oil spill isn't getting 1/5th of the media attention and hype that the Tiger Woods' affair got.

That's right, people care more about a golfer's sex life than the destruction of their own enviornment.

[AquaPython]

The bummer is the rap BP will get for this - TRANSOCEAN is who did this, not BP.

then why did BP already vow to pay for all clean up costs?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100503/wl_uk_afp/usblastoilenergypollutionbp

BP takes responsibility for responding to the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. We will clean it up," it said, vowing to consider all compensation claims "promptly" and pay them quickly if justified. Oil from beneath a BP-leased rig which exploded and overturned in the Gulf of Mexico has formed a huge slick now coming ashore on the US Gulf coast. The cost has been estimated at several billion dollars.
"BP has established a robust process to manage claims resulting from the Deepwater Horizon incident," said the statement posted on a site devoted to the official response to the disaster.
"BP will pay all necessary and appropriate clean-up costs," it said, adding that the company was "committed to pay legitimate and objectively verifiable claims for other loss and damage caused by the spill.
"This may include claims for assessment, mitigation and clean-up of spilled oil, real and property damage caused by the oil, personal injury caused by the spill, commercial losses including loss of earnings/profit and other losses as contemplated by applicable laws and regulations."
A 24-hour, seven-days-a-week claims hotline has been set up with a toll-free number, it said.
"Each claim will be assigned to an adjuster and the claim will be promptly investigated and evaluated. Larger and more complex claims may require additional investigation and documentation prior to evaluation and resolution.
"BP will pay resolved claims promptly," the company added.

[azoomm]

then why did BP already vow to pay for all clean up costs?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100503/wl_uk_afp/usblastoilenergypollutionbp
Public perception.

Frankly, I hope you're right about transocean going down....

[azoomm]

BP didn't even have a fucking response plan because they deemed what's happening now to be nearly impossible.

You know, I bet if I took 10 5 gallon buckets full of used motor oil out to the Ocean and the Coast Guard caught me dumping them...I'd go to jail right then and there...

Again, not BP. They do not do their own drilling. They lease the ships and crew that company has the equipment and procedures.

[Kaneman]

Again, not BP. They do not do their own drilling. They lease the ships and crew that company has the equipment and procedures.

Yet they miraculously have the equipment to deal with the spill? They're involved, they could've had their own response plan or made sure who ever was operating the rigs had their own.

You work for BP now?

[Tmall]

Again, not BP. They do not do their own drilling. They lease the ships and crew that company has the equipment and procedures.

But, would they not hold ultimate responsibility? Kind of like a captain of a ship is responsible for everything that occurs on it, no matter how big or small.

[Particle Man]

That and a car bomb was set off in the middle of Times Square and it's barely making the news. I don't understand what's going on.

Yeah but everyone can tell what Miley f**king Cyrus is wearing today I'll bet.

I don't understand why this whole oil spill business isn't all over the place either. :eek:

It's a huge freakin' deal

[azoomm]

Yet they miraculously have the equipment to deal with the spill? They're involved, they could've had their own response plan or made sure who ever was operating the rigs had their own.

You work for BP now?

My husband used to work for TransOcean. He just got off a Semi that was contracted by BP - and about to be on a Drill Ship contracted by BP. So...

I just hope the safety violation - pencil whipping stops now that something blew up. We'll just say they haven't been taking safety issues seriously in the gulf for a while. I would love to hear the bridge recording from the Horizon... think black box from an airplane - there's one on each ship bridge in the event of a catastrophy.

[EpyonXero]

NO, they know HOW to. It's about getting the equipment there to do it. :wink: That will take months [best guess]

Id say that they think they can do it but I wouldnt say they know they can.

The dome/cap idea is something theyve done in the past over smaller oil leaks when they basically put an inverted funnel over the leak, sink it in the mud and punp the oil up a pipe into a ship. The amount of pressure coming out of the well might make it impossible to sink the cap into the sea floor properly. Also, there are three separate leak locations.

The other thing I heard was to put a second cutoff valve clamp below the original one. The original emergency cutoff valve was activated but couldnt completely close the pipe.

One thing Ive learned is that deep sea equipment is very expensive and very rare. A lot of pieces are one-offs and those that arent are modified specifically to fit their applications. There arent a lot of spare lying around.

[Kaneman]

My husband used to work for TransOcean. He just got off a Semi that was contracted by BP - and about to be on a Drill Ship contracted by BP. So...

I just hope the safety violation - pencil whipping stops now that something blew up. We'll just say they haven't been taking safety issues seriously in the gulf for a while. I would love to hear the bridge recording from the Horizon... think black box from an airplane - there's one on each ship bridge in the event of a catastrophy.

:lol: Ok, I could definitely see some kind of employment connection there.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

Yeah but everyone can tell what Miley f**king Cyrus is wearing today I'll bet.

I don't understand why this whole oil spill business isn't all over the place either. :eek:

It's a huge freakin' deal

this made me google miley cyrus.

[askmrjesus]

this made me google miley cyrus.

Bullshit.

You had her bookmarked.

Admit it.

JC

[NONE_too_SOFT]

bullshit.

You had her bookmarked.

Admit it.

Jc

404

[Smittie61984]

I was in Alaska not terribly long after the spill up there. The locals laughed about it and how the media evidently played it up. They said it wasn't remotely as bad as portrayed.

With them living in the such a great wilderness they probably know that no matter what man does, Mother Nature will prevail. Louisiana has endless amounts of marsh that is an excellent filtration system and probably one of the best in the world. Not saying it is good but I don't believe it is as bad as people think. People will suffer, animals will die, and the area is going to look like shit for a little while. But that volcano in Iceland will do more damage to the enviroment than we could probably dream of doing by letting all the oil in every oil rig go.

I think time is what will fix this.

[Particle Man]

this made me google miley cyrus.

cough*bullshit*cough

[tommymac]

then why did BP already vow to pay for all clean up costs?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100503/wl_uk_afp/usblastoilenergypollutionbp

Because they can probably write this off and use it as an excuse to jack up gas prices this summer and recoup their losses.

[the chi]

Because they can probably write this off and use it as an excuse to jack up gas prices this summer and recoup their losses.

*ding ding ding* I can see prices skyrocketing already!

[tommymac]

*ding ding ding* I can see prices skyrocketing already!

I notcied gas went up another 5 cents a gallon by me today. I thought damn theyre capitalizing on this spill already :td:

[Particle Man]

they're already up.

[RACER X]

it's on the news every time i turn on the news

i think it's at 5000k ft

remember it was built by engineers like TRIP........lol



I am a freakin engineer, and to add to that I am a freakin engineer that works in the nuclear industry. .

[Rangerscott]

Up 10-20 cents here.

The news channels here are more worried about shrimp prices going up. They even interviewed a store manager.

[Riceaholic]

Up 10-20 cents here.

The news channels here are more worried about shrimp prices going up. They even interviewed a store manager.

It jumped that much here this week...we haven't seen it yet but i'm sure there will be more in the next few days...

[NONE_too_SOFT]

cough*bullshit*cough

no, i know who she is, i just like her pretty face. although when she's sans make-up, yuck.

[Particle Man]

no, i know who she is, i just like her pretty face. although when she's sans make-up, yuck.

:lol: that sounds more like it.

[askmrjesus]

With them living in the such a great wilderness they probably know that no matter what man does, Mother Nature will prevail. Louisiana has endless amounts of marsh that is an excellent filtration system and probably one of the best in the world. Not saying it is good but I don't believe it is as bad as people think. People will suffer, animals will die, and the area is going to look like shit for a little while. But that volcano in Iceland will do more damage to the enviroment than we could probably dream of doing by letting all the oil in every oil rig go.

I think time is what will fix this.

Yeah, fuck 'em. It's just a little oil. A few Handi-Wipes will sort that shit right out. No need to worry really. Mother Nature and all that...

Meanwhile, back on Earth, 75% of the worlds fisheries were over-exploited, fully exploited, or depleted before this spill. That number just went up.

The myth that the ocean can just "absorb" whatever is thrown in it, is just that. A myth. Oil doesn't go away on it's own. It doesn't "filter down" into something else. It's still oil, and it will be fucking things up for years to come.

You'd have to be a gigantic moronic pinhead, to believe millions of gallons of crude will not have a huge effect on the region...

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there," Rush Limbaugh said. "It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is."

See? There's one now.

JC

[tommymac]

Yeah, fuck 'em. It's just a little oil. A few Handi-Wipes will sort that shit right out. No need to worry really. Mother Nature and all that...

Meanwhile, back on Earth, 75% of the worlds fisheries were over-exploited, fully exploited, or depleted before this spill. That number just went up.

The myth that the ocean can just "absorb" whatever is thrown in it, is just that. A myth. Oil doesn't go away on it's own. It doesn't "filter down" into something else. It's still oil, and it will be fucking things up for years to come.

You'd have to be a gigantic moronic pinhead, to believe millions of gallons of crude will not have a huge effect on the region...

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there," Rush Limbaugh said. "It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is."

See? There's one now.

JC


The planet and oceans will eventualy fix themselves, problem is you and your dad will be the only ones to see it in a few thousand years or so ;)

[askmrjesus]

The planet and oceans will eventualy fix themselves, problem is you and your dad will be the only ones to see it in a few thousand years or so ;)

True, although your time line may be off a bit.

The Earth went though what's known as the "Great Dying" about 250 million years ago. Maybe an asteroid, maybe all the volcanoes went crazy at once, nobody knows. An estimated 90% of the worlds fish, mammals and bugs bit the dust.

It is believed that surviving animal communities took roughly 30 million years to recover.

I hope you brought a good book to read.

JC

[azoomm]

It's sad. It's horribly sad. We've already abused this planet so much, and are so ignorant.... ack.

It is making my finals interesting.

For anyone to actually THINK this will simply "right itself" is incredible to me.

[tommymac]

True, although your time line may be off a bit.
JC

Wasnt sure if I should say millions so I kinda lowballed it, figure I will be long gone either way :lol:

[askmrjesus]

It's sad. It's horribly sad. We've already abused this planet so much, and are so ignorant.... ack.

It is making my finals interesting.

For anyone to actually THINK this will simply "right itself" is incredible to me.

It wouldn't seem that much "thinking" is involved...

JC

[Homeslice]

Will this affect the west coast of Florida?

[azoomm]

Will this affect the west coast of Florida?

Yes.

[azoomm]

It wouldn't seem that much "thinking" is involved...

JC

I know. It's just absolutely incredible to me. Though, now with Al Gore being the spokesmodel for Environmental Issues hasn't really helped things. He just comes off as a heretic. It's like having Chicken Little with a REAL issue. The sky IS fucking falling.

There is a company here in Austin that produces a microbial product that "eats" oil. They are delivering their first major shipment of the product this week to help address the issue. While it seems like this could solve the problem, I can't help but think about the what-if's. YAY, let's introduce a foreign product to address one disaster could create an entirely different disaster....

[LeeNetworX]

Will this affect the west coast of Florida?

I've seen several articles and news clips stating that it may very well affect the Keys, too. :(

[6doublefive321]

I'm not even sure where to start on this one.

Let's go back to the mining accident a few weeks ago. MSHA had recently written up over 100 violations for this particular mine. Was the mine closed? Nope. Just fined.

Let's look at the regulations and systems that are in place for offshore drilling. Are they sufficient? Obviously not. Since accidents can and will happen, emergency response plans should be in place to contain the accidents. Was the ERP for this rig sufficient? Not even close.

What is the common denominator in both cases? Risks were identified, consequences predicted, and NOTHING was done. Why was nothing done? Because violations and fines are the lifeblood of regulatory organizations and governments. The coal mine should have been CLOSED, not fined. Oil rigs should be SHUT DOWN until countermeasures can be implemented to prevent and / or contain spills. Some will say that these actions are not economically feasible, but 20 families in WV and hundreds of families on the gulf coast will disagree.

At the end of the day, our government has made the decision that money and the economy are more important than human lives. Just call it what it is, and I will be happy.

[askmrjesus]

I know. It's just absolutely incredible to me. Though, now with Al Gore being the spokesmodel for Environmental Issues hasn't really helped things. He just comes off as a heretic. It's like having Chicken Little with a REAL issue. The sky IS fucking falling.

Agreed. Politicizing the issue is not going to help.

There is a company here in Austin that produces a microbial product that "eats" oil. They are delivering their first major shipment of the product this week to help address the issue. While it seems like this could solve the problem, I can't help but think about the what-if's. YAY, let's introduce a foreign product to address one disaster could create an entirely different disaster....

Apparently the microbes you are talking about, only have a life span of about a month after they begin converting hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide, so hopefully no long term complications will result.

JC

[Homeslice]

What is the common denominator in both cases? Risks were identified, consequences predicted, and NOTHING was done. Why was nothing done? Because violations and fines are the lifeblood of regulatory organizations and governments. The coal mine should have been CLOSED, not fined. Oil rigs should be SHUT DOWN until countermeasures can be implemented to prevent and / or contain spills. Some will say that these actions are not economically feasible, but 20 families in WV and hundreds of families on the gulf coast will disagree.


The 20 families might, but the families of the other miners who are still working there won't. You're talking about one of the best paying jobs in West Virginia, and there will always be people willing to do it :shrug:

[azoomm]

The 20 families might, but the families of the other miners who are still working there won't. You're talking about one of the best paying jobs in West Virginia, and there will always be people willing to do it :shrug:

Yes, there is a level of calculated risk that we all take into account when choosing a profession. My husband understands that his job is dangerous. But, if they are found to just take safety violations as an acceptable cost of doing business at the expense of lives - THAT is wrong.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

I know. It's just absolutely incredible to me. Though, now with Al Gore being the spokesmodel for Environmental Issues hasn't really helped things. He just comes off as a heretic. It's like having Chicken Little with a REAL issue. The sky IS fucking falling.

There is a company here in Austin that produces a microbial product that "eats" oil. They are delivering their first major shipment of the product this week to help address the issue. While it seems like this could solve the problem, I can't help but think about the what-if's. YAY, let's introduce a foreign product to address one disaster could create an entirely different disaster....

by introducing foreign or synthetic bacteria to rid the problem, we could drastically alter the entire region. we cant possibly forsee all the side effects of trying to sweep the dust under the rug with a miracle product.

for instance (http://www.cracked.com/article_18503_how-biotech-company-almost-killed-world-with-booze.html)

[Rider]

Is there an oil spill somewhere? :runaway:

[Avatard]

Agreed. Politicizing the issue is not going to help.



Apparently the microbes you are talking about, only have a life span of about a month after they begin converting hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide, so hopefully no long term complications will result.

JC

I don't believe the oil-eating bacteria can reproduce, they're made in a lab, and are sterile. As far as I know, they eat, they convert oil, they die.

[azoomm]

I don't believe the oil-eating bacteria can reproduce, they're made in a lab, and are sterile. As far as I know, they eat, they convert oil, they die.

The company representative said [on the news] they reproduce. :panic:

[Rider]

The company representative said [on the news] they reproduce. :panic:

What else does it eat besides oil? :tremble:

[NONE_too_SOFT]

The company representative said [on the news] they reproduce. :panic:

thats the end im scared most of. the nano-bot destruction of the world. cause even if we blow ourselves up w/ nukes life has a chance, but if nanobots just sterilize the planet then the only artifact of life's existance will be all the trash floatin around in space.

[Avatard]

The company representative said [on the news] they reproduce. :panic:

Yeah, that can't be good.

[askmrjesus]

The company representative said [on the news] they reproduce. :panic:


Shit.

We're going to need a butt load of little tiny condoms.

Then again, maybe this is just the opportunity we've been waiting for.

Suppose all the oil eating bacteria goes crazy. First they eat all the oil from the spill, while fucking like rabbits. Then, all the new babies start burrowing down into the oil reserves, in search of more food. The more they find, the faster they reproduce, until finally, all of the oil is gone, and Al Gore gets to be King of the Universe, until he is eventually eaten by a giant radio-active sharktopuss microbe.

Problem solved.

JC

[Avatard]

JC, you need to create a bacteria that eats oil, and shits beer.

[Kaneman]

JC, you need to create a bacteria that eats oil, and shits beer.

That gave me a boner.

[EpyonXero]

I've seen several articles and news clips stating that it may very well affect the Keys, too. :(

Theyve already halted commercial fishing on the Panhandle and all it take is a shift of the wind to blow the oil onshore on the West Coast.

I also heard that the loop current that runs through the gulf is only about 20 miles from where the oil is now. It that current reaches the oil it will take a week for the oil to reach the Florida Straights (The Keys) and another week or two after that it will be off the coast of North Carolina. The Maritimes in Canada and then the UK is next.

[Amber Lamps]

Theyve already halted commercial fishing on the Panhandle and all it take is a shift of the wind to blow the oil onshore on the West Coast.

I also heard that the loop current that runs through the gulf is only about 20 miles from where the oil is now. It that current reaches the oil it will take a week for the oil to reach the Florida Straights (The Keys) and another week or two after that it will be off the coast of North Carolina. The Maritimes in Canada and then the UK is next.

North Carolina?!?!?! Ok now I'm upset and agree that something must be done!!!

I think that it's tragic but we all sound like a bunch of crack heads that are angry with the drug dealers. We make the demand, all they are trying to do is fill it.:idk:

[NONE_too_SOFT]

JC, you need to create a bacteria that eats oil, and shits beer.

refer to the link i posted... you may have second thoughts.

[goof2]

I think that it's tragic but we all sound like a bunch of crack heads that are angry with the drug dealers. We make the demand, all they are trying to do is fill it.:idk:

Pretty much.

[z06boy]

North Carolina?!?!?! Ok now I'm upset and agree that something must be done!!!


:lol: Agreed...I'm heading to Bald Head Island in June...can't have this crap!!


Seriously though...:no: what a disaster...man this sux.

[askmrjesus]

I think that it's tragic but we all sound like a bunch of crack heads that are angry with the drug dealers. We make the demand, all they are trying to do is fill it.:idk:

No.

Not pretty much.

We create a demand for many things, but that's no excuse for not having a back-up plan in place for preventing what might be one of the greatest environmental catastrophes in recent memory.

I was watching them build the "cone" that they're planning to drop on the well head, and I couldn't help but think that the time to build that cone, was right about the same time they came up with the idea of drilling 5000 feet under water.

JC

[Papa_Complex]

No.

Not pretty much.

We create a demand for many things, but that's no excuse for not having a back-up plan in place for preventing what might be one of the greatest environmental catastrophes in recent memory.

I was watching them build the "cone" that they're planning to drop on the well head, and I couldn't help but think that the time to build that cone, was right about the same time they came up with the idea of drilling 5000 feet under water.

JC

And these are the same sort of people that they'd trust to drill in ANWR?

[askmrjesus]

And these are the same sort of people that they'd trust to drill in ANWR?

Sure.

What could possibly go wrong?

JC

[Papa_Complex]

Sure.

What could possibly go wrong?

JC

Yeah. What the hell. I always thought that polar bears were racist anyway. Serve the bastards right.

[Particle Man]

For anyone to actually THINK this will simply "right itself" is incredible to me.

People have become desensitized over time by seeing disasters and such half a world away that have never impacted them. To their point of view, this stuff just "goes away" so people have gotten into this mode of thinking. I'm not saying it's right (definitely not) but that's what I think has happened.

[Homeslice]

refer to the link i posted... you may have second thoughts.

too bad it was a work of fiction, lol

[askmrjesus]

too bad it was a work of fiction, lol

Ahem...

http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/01-02-05-study.htm

Be afraid.

JC

[Homeslice]

And yet if you do a search for Elaine Ingham, no references to her claims exist on mainstream sources.

[goof2]

Sure.

What could possibly go wrong?

JC

All kinds of stuff, just like if there is anything more than a minor disruption in our oil supply.

[askmrjesus]

And yet if you do a search for Elaine Ingham, no references to her claims exist on mainstream sources.

Define mainstream.

http://www.biotech-info.net/EI_testimony_NZ.html

http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/8951-full-story-of-the-dr-elaine-ingham-controversy-over-klebsiella-p

JC

[tommymac]

People have become desensitized over time by seeing disasters and such half a world away that have never impacted them. To their point of view, this stuff just "goes away" so people have gotten into this mode of thinking. I'm not saying it's right (definitely not) but that's what I think has happened.

It does go away because the news stops covering it. Parts of new orleans are still recovering from katrina, and haiti is still a disaster but all the stars got their face time did their benefit shows and moved on to the next cause toget them more face time.

if this comes ashore over many communities you will prolly hear and see a lot more of it esp when /if it hits more densley populated or well off areas.

I just wonder if the govt learned their lesson after katrina and will have their shit together to help take care of this one.

[MILK]

People have become desensitized over time by seeing disasters and such half a world away that have never impacted them. To their point of view, this stuff just "goes away" so people have gotten into this mode of thinking. I'm not saying it's right (definitely not) but that's what I think has happened.

Because the media blows most everything out of proportion it makes it hard to judge what is really a disaster. Like I said in an earlier post - I was in Alaska after the Valdez and the locals said the spill was nowhere close to being as bad as potrayed...

Same goes for whenever we get 1/4" of snow here - you'd think the world was coming to an end.. :lol:

[Particle Man]

It does go away because the news stops covering it. Parts of new orleans are still recovering from katrina, and haiti is still a disaster but all the stars got their face time did their benefit shows and moved on to the next cause toget them more face time.


Yep

[askmrjesus]

Because the media blows most everything out of proportion it makes it hard to judge what is really a disaster.

You are so right. Just look at all the fuss they made over Katrina. Like a little water is really going to hurt anybody...


Like I said in an earlier post - I was in Alaska after the Valdez and the locals said the spill was nowhere close to being as bad as potrayed...


I wonder if any of the locals you talked to, were one of the 11,000 Alaskans that helped clean up the 10.8 MILLION GALLONS of oil that covered 1,300 miles of coastline, killing an estimated 100,000 -250,000 seabirds, fish, orcas, seals and otters, along with billions of salmon eggs.

My guess is no.

JC

[Kaneman]

You are so right. Just look at all the fuss they made over Katrina. Like a little water is really going to hurt anybody...




I wonder if any of the locals you talked to, were one of the 11,000 Alaskans that helped clean up the 10.8 MILLION GALLONS of oil that covered 1,300 miles of coastline, killing an estimated 100,000 -250,000 seabirds, fish, orcas, seals and otters, along with billions of salmon eggs.

My guess is no.

JC

Dude, don't be a dick. You know damned good and well how common it is for a quarter of a million animals from a local population to suddenly die off.

Just the other day I was on my way to work on the bike and I had to carefully weave in and out of all the dead Longhorns, Horses and Rattlesnakes. Hell, I even had a dead Mockingbird fall right down from the sky. There must've been......well I guess about 250,000 dead animals in all.

Perfectly normal, and not a big deal.

[azoomm]

The first of the three leaks is "fixed." It was the little one from the actual line.

Josh, I lol'ed

[Papa_Complex]

I wonder if any of the locals you talked to, were one of the 11,000 Alaskans that helped clean up the 10.8 MILLION GALLONS of oil that covered 1,300 miles of coastline, killing an estimated 100,000 -250,000 seabirds, fish, orcas, seals and otters, along with billions of salmon eggs.

My guess is no.

JC

I was wondering how many of them worked for an oil company? Hell, we still have a ban on oil being transported through Canada's western waters to this day.

[askmrjesus]

Dude, don't be a dick. You know damned good and well how common it is for a quarter of a million animals from a local population to suddenly die off.

Just the other day I was on my way to work on the bike and I had to carefully weave in and out of all the dead Longhorns, Horses and Rattlesnakes. Hell, I even had a dead Mockingbird fall right down from the sky. There must've been......well I guess about 250,000 dead animals in all.

Perfectly normal, and not a big deal.

:lol:

My bad.

I just have a hard time telling what's a disaster and what isn't. It's so confusing.

JC

[MILK]

You were all up there then right? :lol:

What do I know, while I was actually up there you saw it on the news. :lmao:

[Papa_Complex]

Yup, and that 9/11 thing wasn't that bad either. I was in New York State around then and didn't see a thing ;)

[Amber Lamps]

Yup, and that 9/11 thing wasn't that bad either. I was in New York State around then and didn't see a thing ;)

Yea, well my step brother was killed in that little "nothing" so maybe you should pick your jokes more carefully...

If you really want to get down to it, who exactly counted all of these animals? Was it 100,000 or 250,000? That's a pretty big spread isn't it? Heck, if we're just guessing, maybe it was 5,000...:idk: I think that it is "relative" in the sense that to an environmentalist type, two snow owls and a kangaroo mouse is a disaster. While to other people, 50,000 krill don't mean a thing... Also, I'm not sure why people that don't live in an area are more capable of determining what constitutes a "disaster" to the locals.:idk: Anytime any of you want to give up your bikes and cars, I'll be more than happy to take them off your hands. While you're at it, why don't you give up electricity, heat, running water, technology and go live in a nice cave somewhere.:wink:

[Kaneman]

Yea, well my step brother was killed in that little "nothing" so maybe you should pick your jokes more carefully...



Did you seriously just play the dead brother card?

I hereby vow to forever follow you around the internet, waiting for you to make a joke about a death that somehow affected another person. Oh it will be so sweet, a veritable milkshake of hypocrisy. I will see you there my friend, I will see you there.

You were all up there then right? :lol:

What do I know, while I was actually up there you saw it on the news. :lmao:

So the whole dead bird thing...just made up huh? Kinda like the moon landing I guess, the whole fake set, pouring motor oil over zoo animals for dramatic effect. I feel so duped.

[Amber Lamps]

Did you seriously just play the dead brother card?

I hereby vow to forever follow you around the internet, waiting for you to make a joke about a death that somehow affected another person. Oh it will be so sweet, a veritable milkshake of hypocrisy. I will see you there my friend, I will see you there.



So the whole dead bird thing...just made up huh? Kinda like the moon landing I guess, the whole fake set, pouring motor oil over zoo animals for dramatic effect. I feel so duped.

Oh I see, it's okay for a Canadian to make fun of thousands of American dead but we all have to be 100% serious about POTENTIAL animal deaths, right? Cool, I'm glad that I know the rules now.

[Kaneman]

Oh I see, it's okay for a Canadian to make fun of thousands of American dead but we all have to be 100% serious about POTENTIAL animal deaths, right? Cool, I'm glad that I know the rules now.

:lol: ....No, No I don't think you do. :lol:

[Amber Lamps]

:lol: ....No, No I don't think you do. :lol:

No, No I think that I do.:lol:

[Papa_Complex]

Yea, well my step brother was killed in that little "nothing" so maybe you should pick your jokes more carefully...

If you really want to get down to it, who exactly counted all of these animals? Was it 100,000 or 250,000? That's a pretty big spread isn't it? Heck, if we're just guessing, maybe it was 5,000...:idk: I think that it is "relative" in the sense that to an environmentalist type, two snow owls and a kangaroo mouse is a disaster. While to other people, 50,000 krill don't mean a thing... Also, I'm not sure why people that don't live in an area are more capable of determining what constitutes a "disaster" to the locals.:idk: Anytime any of you want to give up your bikes and cars, I'll be more than happy to take them off your hands. While you're at it, why don't you give up electricity, heat, running water, technology and go live in a nice cave somewhere.:wink:

Perhaps you should understand the obvious implications of the post, prior to lambasting someone for making it ;)

[askmrjesus]

If you really want to get down to it, who exactly counted all of these animals? Was it 100,000 or 250,000? That's a pretty big spread isn't it? Heck, if we're just guessing, maybe it was 5,000...:idk: I think that it is "relative" in the sense that to an environmentalist type, two snow owls and a kangaroo mouse is a disaster. While to other people, 50,000 krill don't mean a thing... Also, I'm not sure why people that don't live in an area are more capable of determining what constitutes a "disaster" to the locals.:idk: Anytime any of you want to give up your bikes and cars, I'll be more than happy to take them off your hands. While you're at it, why don't you give up electricity, heat, running water, technology and go live in a nice cave somewhere.:wink:

Sometimes I think the light in your head is so dim, that moths fly away from it.

JC

[Avatard]

http://poopnugget.com/files/spit.gif

[Amber Lamps]

Sometimes I think the light in your head is so dim, that moths fly away from it.

JC

not all the time? apparently I have work to do...:lol:

I'm well aware that anyone that doesn't agree with you tree huggers is automatically ignorant. I would just like to meet one of you that practices what you preach.

[Kaneman]

not all the time? apparently I have work to do...:lol:

I'm well aware that anyone that doesn't agree with you tree huggers is automatically ignorant. I would just like to meet one of you that practices what you preach.

What specific part of my preach would you like me to practice? Let me know, I'll see what I can do to improve that part of myself.

[Amber Lamps]

What specific part of my preach would you like me to practice? Let me know, I'll see what I can do to improve that part of myself.


completely. stop. using. petrolium. based. products.

[Papa_Complex]

completely. stop. using. petrolium. based. products.

If I was a tree hugger, I might agree with you on that. I'm not, and I'm hoping for massive roll-out of nuclear power.

[Amber Lamps]

If I was a tree hugger, I might agree with you on that. I'm not, and I'm hoping for massive roll-out of nuclear power.

what was it you said to me before?... I quoted a specific person.... I agree with nuclear power...

[Kaneman]

completely. stop. using. petrolium. based. products.

I don't understand, can you please explain why I should completely. stop. using. petroleum. based. products.

[Papa_Complex]

what was it you said to me before?... I quoted a specific person.... I agree with nuclear power...

You quoted a specific person, but your sentiment regarding "tree huggers" seemed to include me ;)

[the chi]

KM, what I assume he is referring to is the use of petroleum based products negatively impacts the whole nature thing on a chain of events scale.

Like, drilling for oil will harm the ocean, then when its screwed up and we spill it destroys the universe because everyone is using petroleum based products, causing the need for it in the first place.

I'd LOVE to be able to live 100% naturally without using chemical, petroleum and what not. Unfortunately it doesnt work that way, for now anyway. I do however do everything I can to reduce my "footprint", so that consoles me when people make fun of my animal loving tree hugging ways and what a hypocrite I am for not living in the dirt, using an outhouse and riding a bike everywhere.

[azoomm]

completely. stop. using. petrolium. based. products.

Work smarter, not harder.

There's a better way to do it.

[goof2]

Even if we replaced every internal combustion engine with electric (except jets, that may be a little impractical even for this exercise), only fed the increased energy demand with nuclear, and replaced every existing power plant with nuclear as I understand it we would still need over 5 million barrels per day of refined products from oil. Nuclear can play a large part in reducing our dependance on oil but even in fantasy land it only takes us so far.

As for the impact of this spill, I'm not arguing that it won't be huge due to its concentration, but lets put it in to some perspective. According to the National Research Council's best estimates over 1.1 million barrels of oil enter the seas in North America due to natural seepage from the ground every year. Worldwide their best estimate is almost 4.4 million barrels per year. While we do add to the total oil is going to get in the ocean no matter what.

[Amber Lamps]

Even if we replaced every internal combustion engine with electric (except jets, that may be a little impractical even for this exercise), only fed the increased energy demand with nuclear, and replaced every existing power plant with nuclear as I understand it we would still need over 5 million barrels per day of refined products from oil. Nuclear can play a large part in reducing our dependance on oil but even in fantasy land it only takes us so far.

As for the impact of this spill, I'm not arguing that it won't be huge due to its concentration, but lets put it in to some perspective. According to the National Research Council's best estimates over 1.1 million barrels of oil enter the seas in North America due to natural seepage from the ground every year. Worldwide their best estimate is almost 4.4 million barrels per year. While we do add to the total oil is going to get in the ocean no matter what.


I avoided this tactic because they covered it with Rush Limbaugh...it could also be said that by draining off the pressure with drilling, we actually reduce the amount of oil that seeps into the ocean....:lol: In other words, if we left oil alone, we would have hundreds of tar pits around the world....:wink:

[the chi]

But then we would all die like the dinosaurs cuz hoomans are too stupid not to drive into things like that...

:lol:

[Homeslice]

Define mainstream.

http://www.biotech-info.net/EI_testimony_NZ.html

http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/8951-full-story-of-the-dr-elaine-ingham-controversy-over-klebsiella-p

JC

I wouldn't call those mainstream.

But since we're trading links.....

http://www.botanischergarten.ch/debate/InghamRebuttal.pdf

[Amber Lamps]

But then we would all die like the dinosaurs cuz hoomans are too stupid not to drive into things like that...

:lol:

:lol: Yep!!! Oh and I appreciate that you "get me"... I just get tired of people that use 3 drops less oil than I do, telling me how to live.:idk:

[azoomm]

I avoided this tactic because they covered it with Rush Limbaugh...it could also be said that by draining off the pressure with drilling, we actually reduce the amount of oil that seeps into the ocean....:lol: In other words, if we left oil alone, we would have hundreds of tar pits around the world....:wink:

I'm always confused by the deflection statements of "it happens in nature anyway..." :lol:

Do zebra muscles have their place in the environment, yes. What happens when humans introduce them artifically into another environment? Bad things. To simply state that something happens to some extent somewhere else on the planet is not a valid argument. :)

[Cruzergirl]

Because the media blows most everything out of proportion it makes it hard to judge what is really a disaster. Like I said in an earlier post - I was in Alaska after the Valdez and the locals said the spill was nowhere close to being as bad as potrayed...

Same goes for whenever we get 1/4" of snow here - you'd think the world was coming to an end.. :lol:

On this ONE point I have to disagree. I had friends who helped clean and know many fishermen in the area. It WAS that bad.


Luv ya! Mean it! :)

[Amber Lamps]

I'm always confused by the deflection statements of "it happens in nature anyway..." :lol:

Do zebra muscles have their place in the environment, yes. What happens when humans introduce them artifically into another environment? Bad things. To simply state that something happens to some extent somewhere else on the planet is not a valid argument. :)

what if it occurs in that part of the world naturally... what if they could prove that this oil plus whatever has been pumped would have seeped into the ocean naturally, them what? oil is a natural compound... I honestly want to discuss this as I am honestly interested in non emotionally driven debate.

[azoomm]

what if it occurs in that part of the world naturally... what if they could prove that this oil plus whatever has been pumped would have seeped into the ocean naturally, them what? oil is a natural compound... I honestly want to discuss this as I am honestly interested in non emotionally driven debate.

OK, I won't use smilies.

If they can prove THAT MUCH oil seeps from the ground in that area naturally then I wouldn't have any issue with it at all.

Hell, I'm just hoping the industry starts taking the safety issues seriously. And, by safety, I mean for people and the world around them.

[EpyonXero]

what if it occurs in that part of the world naturally... what if they could prove that this oil plus whatever has been pumped would have seeped into the ocean naturally, them what? oil is a natural compound... I honestly want to discuss this as I am honestly interested in non emotionally driven debate.

Thats a big IF. Proving that oil could leak through 1000 m of rock.

[goof2]

Thats a big IF. Proving that oil could leak through 1000 m of rock.

The note at the bottom of the below linked page, continuing to the next page, covers how they estimate natural seepage. Part of that estimate is through observation of actual natural seepage. Take it how you want but scientists actually observing it happening constitutes proof for me.

The primary subject of the link shows how and in what quantities the government believes oil gets in to the seas for anyone else who is interested.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10388&page=69

[Papa_Complex]

I sure hope that you aren't equating a minute level of natural seepage with punching a bike sized hole straight down to it.

[azoomm]

I sure hope that you aren't equating a minute level of natural seepage with punching a bike sized hole straight down to it.

That's what I'm reading. :skep:

[goof2]

I sure hope that you aren't equating a minute level of natural seepage with punching a bike sized hole straight down to it.

If by "minute level" you mean their midline estimate of 140,000 metric tons per year (around 1 million barrels per year) in the Gulf of Mexico alone than yes, that is what I am equating it to.

ETA: As I said in my earlier post though, there will be a large impact because of the concentration of oil in this case.

[Amber Lamps]

That's what I'm reading. :skep:

Yep me too, I've already seen this type of evidence and decided to avoid it because the PCs and the AMJs will never openly admit, regardless of proof, that WAY more oil "seeps" into the oceans naturally than we have ever spilled or dumped. If these numbers are even close to correct then we have a long way to go. I'm am not saying that the oil spill is "okay" by any means, btw. I actually agree that having a back up plan in place BEFORE an accident happens is definitely the way to go. I just hope that this doesn't forestall our efforts to drill for oil off the coast of NC. I know that a lot of environmentalists are pointing at this and screaming, "see? I told you!!!" While completely ignoring the rather good track record of this type of drilling as a whole. People constantly bring up the Exxon Valdez but forget how many tankers come and go everyday....:idk: Man, I just want to get on my bike and ride and enjoy my spaghetti that I nuked in a plastic bowl....:lol:

[askmrjesus]

I've already seen this type of evidence and decided to avoid it because the PCs and the AMJs will never openly admit, regardless of proof, that WAY more oil "seeps" into the oceans naturally than we have ever spilled or dumped.

PC and I are members of the naturally occurring oil seepage Illuminati, and now that you know that, we're going to have to kill you.

Sorry, those are the rules.

Your argument, btw, is complete crap. I don't give a fuck how much oil seeps up from the ground, because that oil doesn't have a fraction of the immediate impact that a major spill does, and there isn't anything you can do about it anyway.

JC

[Papa_Complex]

PC and I are members of the naturally occurring oil seepage Illuminati, and now that you know that, we're going to have to kill you.

Sorry, those are the rules.

Your argument, btw, is complete crap. I don't give a fuck how much oil seeps up from the ground, because that oil doesn't have a fraction of the immediate impact that a major spill does, and there isn't anything you can do about it anyway.

JC

You aren't supposed to tell our evil plan until just before you try to kill him. Jeez! You know these things if you ever went to meetings.

You can stand in the rain and have 100 gallons of water fall on you over the course of a day. Get submerged in that water, all at once, and it's a bit of a different outcome.

[askmrjesus]

You aren't supposed to tell our evil plan until just before you try to kill him. Jeez! You know these things if you ever went to meetings.


I told you when I signed up, that Tuesday is my bowling night.

JC

[Papa_Complex]

I told you when I signed up, that Tuesday is my bowling night.

JC

Dude walks on frikkin' water and can have a fish fry for 10,000 people on $1.97, but can't move a bowling night :skep:

[Amber Lamps]

You aren't supposed to tell our evil plan until just before you try to kill him. Jeez! You know these things if you ever went to meetings.

You can stand in the rain and have 100 gallons of water fall on you over the course of a day. Get submerged in that water, all at once, and it's a bit of a different outcome.

Hey now, that's a very good analogy....kudos! I do think the point that the ocean can "handle it" is a valid one. If you take the volume of oil vs the volume of water....:whistle: Anyway, that's a great argument and with that I must concede your point, well played sir!

[azoomm]

I like how their first attempt was to capture the oil and pump it to the surface. Would it stop the leak? Yes. It also would allow them to pump the line and not lose any of the production. It failed. Who would have thought that it would be freezing at almost a mile down.

They're now going to drill a secondary line and do a junk plug. That's where they take all sorts of random material and push it down the line with heavy mud. Random, as in, golf balls, shredded tires, rope, etc.

It's back to a few months for expected plug... yay.

[Particle Man]

Dude walks on frikkin' water and can have a fish fry for 10,000 people on $1.97, but can't move a bowling night :skep:

:lol: