Prohibition repealed?

[shmike]

The overwhelming sentiment on the board seems to call for an end to the War on Drugs.

I think most people want marijuana legalized but aren’t so sure about the “harder” substances.

I’d like to see how everyone thinks it would work and what exactly they mean by “drugs”.

Do we allow any and all drugs into the country or only certain classes?
Whom or what would regulate the substances?
What impact would these regulations / regulators have on the current drugs (pharmaceuticals)?
Would cases of addiction rise, fall or remain constant?
How would addicts (now) be handled / treated?
What other costs / benefits do you see being associated?

[Rider]

My definition of drugs are substances that are man made or altered from their natural state. Marijuana and shrooms should not be considered drugs and should be legal and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. Everything else should be kept illegal with the exception of alcohol.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

Weed isnt addicting, this has been proven. There is not long term physical NEED for canibis and no symptoms of withdrawl for long time users.

It can be habituating, yes, but so can World of Warcraft and japanese fetish porn.

We already allow any and all drugs into the country.

The big marijuana growers in mexico, etc, do NOT want weed to be legalized. tobaco and alcohol companies could throw so much money into the market that they couldnt compete and would henceforth be ran out of the market by lower prices and increased supply.

and honestly marijuana is called "weed" for a reason, it will practically grow anywhere. If weed is legalized it doesnt mean suddenly EVERYBODY would smoke pot, it just means less of our money would be dumped into frivolous drug charges and seizures, and people that liked to smoke pot could do so without worrying about breaking the law for something like putting a harmless agent into their bloodstream.

and honestly, tax that shit. tax the fuck out of it just like cigarettes.

[ontwo]

Weed isnt addicting, this has been proven. There is not long term physical NEED for canibis and no symptoms of withdrawl for long time users.

It can be habituating, yes, but so can World of Warcraft and japanese fetish porn.

We already allow any and all drugs into the country.

The big marijuana growers in mexico, etc, do NOT want weed to be legalized. tobaco and alcohol companies could throw so much money into the market that they couldnt compete and would henceforth be ran out of the market by lower prices and increased supply.

and honestly marijuana is called "weed" for a reason, it will practically grow anywhere. If weed is legalized it doesnt mean suddenly EVERYBODY would smoke pot, it just means less of our money would be dumped into frivolous drug charges and seizures, and people that liked to smoke pot could do so without worrying about breaking the law for something like putting a harmless agent into their bloodstream.

and honestly, tax that shit. tax the fuck out of it just like cigarettes.

Well said

[6doublefive321]

and honestly marijuana is called "weed" for a reason, it will practically grow anywhere.

This is the very reason it isn't legalized today. It grows so readily that it would be impossible to tax it, thus it is illegal. The government can tax sales of it, but most folks would choose to grow a few plants on the back deck for personal use.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

This is the very reason it isn't legalized today. It grows so readily that it would be impossible to tax it, thus it is illegal. The government can tax sales of it, but most folks would choose to grow a few plants on the back deck for personal use.

Yea true, but it certainly takes a bit of an effort to grow GOOD weed. I've done it back in my college hay day. If you've ever been around anybody that smokes weed regularly, you know that your typical weed smoker values quality over quantity, so assuming there would be no restrictions on potency or THC content, big companies could afford to grow MUCH better weed in much bigger quantities.

I mean how many smokers do you know that roll their own cigarettes, let alone grow their own tobacco? americans are slaves to convenience.

[Rider]

Yea true, but it certainly takes a bit of an effort to grow GOOD weed. I've done it back in my college hay day. If you've ever been around anybody that smokes weed regularly, you know that your typical weed smoker values quality over quantity, so assuming there would be no restrictions on potency or THC content, big companies could afford to grow MUCH better weed in much bigger quantities.

I mean how many smokers do you know that roll their own cigarettes, let alone grow their own tobacco? americans are slaves to convenience.

Yeah they grow it because it's readily available anytime you want it and there is less risk growing than buying on the street. My guess is that once it becomes legal, you won't have that many people growing. Too much work.

[Avatard]

Yeah, people can grow their own veggies, but most buy at the market.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

Yeah they grow it because it's readily available anytime you want it and there is less risk growing than buying on the street. My guess is that once it becomes legal, you won't have that many people growing. Too much work.

Yeah, people can grow their own veggies, but most buy at the market.

exactly, my dear gentleman.

[shmike]

Yeah, people can grow their own veggies, but most buy at the market.

That's all you got for me?

C'mon man. I was hoping for some great input from you and Kaneman on this topic.

Step up, yo.

[wildchild]

damn pot heads rank right below thieves. addicted to a drug an willing to do anything legal or otherwise to get it.

[Rider]

damn pot heads rank right below thieves. addicted to a drug an willing to do anything legal or otherwise to get it.

so i take you you never drink alcohol or ingest caffeine?

[Rider]

Just so we are all clear I don't smoke weed. Mostly because I get drug tested at work but I also don't think it's a good example to set for my kids

But anyway.....

My theme song when I was 20

"Sweet Leaf"

ALRIGHT NOW!
Won't you listen?

When I first met you, didn't realize
I can't forget you, for your surprise
you introduced me, to my mind
And left me wanting, you and your kind

I love you, Oh you know it

My life was empty, forever on a down
Until you took me, showed me around
My life is free now, my life is clear
I love you sweet leaf, though you can't hear

Come on now, try it out

Straight people don't know, what you're about
They put you down and shut you out
you gave to me a new belief
and soon the world will love you sweet leaf

[VatorMan]

Yeah, people can grow their own veggies, but most buy at the market.

I make my own beer-I'd damn well grow my own chronic. Better start saving up for the increase in my electric and bill.

[wildchild]

alright damn it you're not the one who's supposed to be responding. although I like the little CYA with "i don't smoke" LOL
I'm in the same type place as you.

no, actually I was just trying to get a rise out of Avatard and Kane. I personally think it should be legalized. I used to be des driver a lot in military. I drove drinkers and sometimes smokers. I would much rather drive smokers home then drinkers. No puking, no fighting, no BS. they're funny as hell after a few hits of the stuff. I have never tried it myself but that was just personal choice.

and yes to answer your question though probably moot. I love caffeine. LOL beer isn't bad either.

[Avatard]

I make my own beer-I'd damn well grow my own chronic. Better start saving up for the increase in my electric and bill.

Oh, and a lot of people do grow their own tomatoes. What I meant is that the vast majority will still buy the "national brand", but some will still grow at home, in about similar proportions to...well, just about everything else.

[Kaneman]

no, actually I was just trying to get a rise out of Avatard and Kane.

I got more important things goin on fucker, give me a month or so and I'll be back to give you a lil' verbal raping. :lol:

[z06boy]

damn pot heads rank right below thieves. addicted to a drug an willing to do anything legal or otherwise to get it.

My fingers were already looking for the WTF keys before reading post # 15. :lol:

[EpyonXero]

Oh, and a lot of people do grow their own tomatoes. What I meant is that the vast majority will still buy the "national brand", but some will still grow at home, in about similar proportions to...well, just about everything else.

There are probably a lot of people who would prefer a mass produced product with consistent quality and effects.

[VatorMan]

There are probably a lot of people who would prefer a mass produced product with consistent quality and effects.


"This Bud's for you" might have a whole new meaning.:lol

[goof2]

The overwhelming sentiment on the board seems to call for an end to the War on Drugs.

I don't know about that. My impression is the majority supports legalizing marijuana, but that support drops significantly when the conversation turns to Coke, Heroin, and other hard drugs. As long as some drugs remain illegal the "War on Drugs" continues practically unabated. About the only difference is the people who legally purchase and sell weed will fall off the radar.

Do we allow any and all drugs into the country or only certain classes?

I support legalizing weed, but remain uncertain about some substances (acid, shrooms) and don't support legalization for others (coke, heroin).

Whom or what would regulate the substances?

Probably ATF or FDA. They have experience regulating tobacco and I don't see things being much different with marijuana.

What impact would these regulations / regulators have on the current drugs (pharmaceuticals)?

None.

Would cases of addiction rise, fall or remain constant?

Remain constant I would expect. I don't see any reason why this would change.

How would addicts (now) be handled / treated?

If it is just marijuana legalized I would expect nothing to change since marijuana isn't supposed to be addictive.

What other costs / benefits do you see being associated?

I see a bunch of tax revenue being collected on its sale. It might even be enough to cover the inevitable growth in government they will claim is necessary to regulate the distribution, sale, and revenue collection involved for legalization.

[shmike]

I don't know about that. My impression is the majority supports legalizing marijuana, but that support drops significantly when the conversation turns to Coke, Heroin, and other hard drugs. As long as some drugs remain illegal the "War on Drugs" continues practically unabated. About the only difference is the people who legally purchase and sell weed will fall off the radar.



I support legalizing weed, but remain uncertain about some substances (acid, shrooms) and don't support legalization for others (coke, heroin).



Probably ATF or FDA. They have experience regulating tobacco and I don't see things being much different with marijuana.



None.



Remain constant I would expect. I don't see any reason why this would change.



If it is just marijuana legalized I would expect nothing to change since marijuana isn't supposed to be addictive.



I see a bunch of tax revenue being collected on its sale. It might even be enough to cover the inevitable growth in government they will claim is necessary to regulate the distribution, sale, and revenue collection involved for legalization.


Thanks for your input.

I think you must be looking for the pot growing thread.

http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?t=15131

[goof2]

Thanks for your input.

I think you must be looking for the pot growing thread.

http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?t=15131

Even if marijuana is legalized I'm not interested in smoking it so it doesn't matter either way to me.

[wildchild]

I got more important things goin on fucker, give me a month or so and I'll be back to give you a lil' verbal raping. :lol:

I knew I could get a response out of you. :lol

[derf]

I don't know about that. My impression is the majority supports legalizing marijuana, but that support drops significantly when the conversation turns to Coke, Heroin, and other hard drugs. As long as some drugs remain illegal the "War on Drugs" continues practically unabated. About the only difference is the people who legally purchase and sell weed will fall off the radar.



I support legalizing weed, but remain uncertain about some substances (acid, shrooms) and don't support legalization for others (coke, heroin).



Probably ATF or FDA. They have experience regulating tobacco and I don't see things being much different with marijuana.



None.



Remain constant I would expect. I don't see any reason why this would change.



If it is just marijuana legalized I would expect nothing to change since marijuana isn't supposed to be addictive.



I see a bunch of tax revenue being collected on its sale. It might even be enough to cover the inevitable growth in government they will claim is necessary to regulate the distribution, sale, and revenue collection involved for legalization.

Agree with your conclusions except 3.

It will start to be used as a pain killer more than now, pharm companies will loose some money, but not much

Addiction would fall as the legalized pot becomes much more readily available. Personally the only times I have ever tried anything harder than weed is because weed wasn't available

The gov would tax the crap out of it making a pack of joints cost $50, with $40 of that going to taxes. It would pay for the cost of regulating it by itself. in addition you would loose all the costs associated with the war on drugs (weed only), plus the costs of incarcerating people, and whatever medical cost benefits that can be attributed to it too. Plus the additional tax revenue from all the doritos that would be sold

[Amorok]

I don't think there's any reason not to legalize it except the government being unwilling to admit their ridiculous error. I don't think legalization would have much of an effect on society at large. Not sure what the effect would be on specialized jobs like cops, firefighters and the military. Right now we can't drink 8 hours prior to duty, they'd have to come up with a time frame for pot or not let us smoke. And it would for sure save the government money at the least, if it didn't put a huge amount of money back into our coffers. If managed correctly something like this could really help knock down the deficit. Of course, that's assuming the government can manage anything right.

[Amber Lamps]

I don't think there's any reason not to legalize it except the government being unwilling to admit their ridiculous error. I don't think legalization would have much of an effect on society at large. Not sure what the effect would be on specialized jobs like cops, firefighters and the military. Right now we can't drink 8 hours prior to duty, they'd have to come up with a time frame for pot or not let us smoke. And it would for sure save the government money at the least, if it didn't put a huge amount of money back into our coffers. If managed correctly something like this could really help knock down the deficit. Of course, that's assuming the government can manage anything right.

Negative, smoking pot will never be acceptable in the military for good reason.

[Kaneman]

Negative, smoking pot will never be acceptable in the military for good reason.

Bullshit on all accounts. Military personnel are notorious for getting fucked up.

[Amber Lamps]

Bullshit on all accounts. Military personnel are notorious for getting fucked up.

Negative. What military were you in? The Army has random drug testing. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm saying that it is "unacceptable" and against regulations. I also don't think that it will be acceptable in several industries for the same reasons that it isn't now. I don't want to be 30 stories up with some drug addict and I doubt that insurance companies are going to pay accident claims or worker's comp to dope users whether the actual substance is legal or not. Some jobs just simply shouldn't mix with drugs or alcohol, military, law enforcement, construction, material handling, medical, fire/rescue, government service, etc. Say what you will but I think that companies have a right not to higher or keep drug addicts on the pay roll. If they explain their drug policy up front, you should have nothing to say after the fact.:idk:

[Smittie61984]

Do we allow any and all drugs into the country or only certain classes?
Whom or what would regulate the substances?
What impact would these regulations / regulators have on the current drugs (pharmaceuticals)?
Would cases of addiction rise, fall or remain constant?
How would addicts (now) be handled / treated?
What other costs / benefits do you see being associated?

1. Well we'll at least allow any drugs made in this country to be sold in this country. Wether we allow other countries to sell us drugs can be up to our government. That is within their power

2. The private sector and the consumer

3. I guess you mean like Lortabs, Zanax, etc. No restrictions.

4. Don't know and it isn't my business.

5. If you become addicted to smack then you can die in the gutter.

6. I see all benefits.
- We get police away from wasting time, money, and men on vice crimes and get them fighting real crimes.
- The billion dollar drug industry is taken out of the hands of thugs and rednecks and put into the hands of Harvard MBAs and MIT chemists.
- Drug addicts and TWFix users quit bugging Tommymac for drugs and taking up hospital space for people who are really sick and really do need drugs.

Only downside. You'll have to talk to your own damn kids about drugs and actually act like a parent.

[Kaneman]

Negative. What military were you in? The Army has random drug testing. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm saying that it is "unacceptable" and against regulations. I also don't think that it will be acceptable in several industries for the same reasons that it isn't now. I don't want to be 30 stories up with some drug addict and I doubt that insurance companies are going to pay accident claims or worker's comp to dope users whether the actual substance is legal or not. Some jobs just simply shouldn't mix with drugs or alcohol, military, law enforcement, construction, material handling, medical, fire/rescue, government service, etc. Say what you will but I think that companies have a right not to higher or keep drug addicts on the pay roll. If they explain their drug policy up front, you should have nothing to say after the fact.:idk:

You're totally right dude, military guys and gals never get drunk. And they especially never get pissed drunk.

My bad.

:lol:

[t-homo]

In all honesty, there will be more people who smoke at work than drink at work, but they all already do it anyway. People are typically smart enough to know if they can't smoke at/before work.

[goof2]

I also don't think that it will be acceptable in several industries for the same reasons that it isn't now. I don't want to be 30 stories up with some drug addict and I doubt that insurance companies are going to pay accident claims or worker's comp to dope users whether the actual substance is legal or not. Some jobs just simply shouldn't mix with drugs or alcohol, military, law enforcement, construction, material handling, medical, fire/rescue, government service, etc. Say what you will but I think that companies have a right not to higher or keep drug addicts on the pay roll. If they explain their drug policy up front, you should have nothing to say after the fact.:idk:

I share the same basic belief about what effect legalization will have on the acceptance by employers of off the clock marijuana use by their employees (basically no effect). Until a test is developed that accurately measures marijuana intoxication I don't see its use becoming any more acceptable.

The one thing I do take issue with is the "drug addicts" classification. There are plenty of people who smoke marijuana that are not addicted (many say none of them are). It is no different than the overwhelming majority of those who drink alcohol not being alcoholics.

[Kaneman]

I share the same basic belief about what effect legalization will have on the acceptance by employers of off the clock marijuana use by their employees (basically no effect). Until a test is developed that accurately measures marijuana intoxication I don't see its use becoming any more acceptable.

The one thing I do take issue with is the "drug addicts" classification. There are plenty of people who smoke marijuana that are not addicted (many say none of them are). It is no different than the overwhelming majority of those who drink alcohol not being alcoholics.

Or those who ride motorcycles but aren't adrenaline junkies.

Once the stigma that 70 years of brainwashing causes wears off, the types of policies that discriminate against marijuana users will go away.

[goof2]

Or those who ride motorcycles but aren't adrenaline junkies.

Once the stigma that 70 years of brainwashing causes wears off, the types of policies that discriminate against marijuana users will go away.

I don't view it as discrimination. I don't care what happens I don't see employers allowing marijuana intoxication at work. Since I don't believe a reliable test for intoxication is available the remaining option is to test for use. Until a reliable intoxication test is developed it means tough titties for weed smokers.

[Rangerscott]

Ya'll all just been......













































ICE'D!!!!

http://www.ebisuya.jp/shopping/15_liquer/images/smirnoff-1.jpg

[Kaneman]

I don't view it as discrimination. I don't care what happens I don't see employers allowing marijuana intoxication at work. Since I don't believe a reliable test for intoxication is available the remaining option is to test for use. Until a reliable intoxication test is developed it means tough titties for weed smokers.

Nah, it just means kits to pass drug tests will be even better than they are now.

[t-homo]

Nah, it just means kits to pass drug tests will be even better than they are now.

http://www.swmosportbikes.com/forum/images/smilies/true.gif

[Smittie61984]

Once the stigma that 70 years of brainwashing causes wears off, the types of policies that discriminate against marijuana users will go away.

I don't think that 100 years ago families got together to celebrate their kid graduating college by passing a joint around vs the family doing a toast with some alcohol. Even with it legalized I still doubt you'll go to a company party and see a bar with the option of getting a beer, glass of wine, or some chronic. I doubt any drug will ever be as accepted socially as alcohol.

Regardless wether pot or any drug is legalized the employer should be allowed to set a drug policy. If you get hired by a company and they have a drug policy then you fail then you shoudl be fired and kiss your unemployment goodbye.

[goof2]

Nah, it just means kits to pass drug tests will be even better than they are now.

Neither version, this one or mine includes employers getting rid of bans against, testing for, or "the stigma that 70 years of brainwashing causes" where marijuana is concerned.

[Kaneman]

Neither version, this one or mine includes employers getting rid of bans against, testing for, or "the stigma that 70 years of brainwashing causes" where marijuana is concerned.

Yea, its going to take a while to undo that kind of damage. 20 years maybe? Who knows...

And that's IF it ever gets legalized, which is still a very big if. In fact, I wouldn't put money on it being legalized, even in Cali in Nov. Never underestimate the gullibleness of Americans.

[t-homo]

I think there is a good chance of it passing in November. Guess it's impossible to tell until then.

[Kaneman]

I think there is a good chance of it passing in November. Guess it's impossible to tell until then.

Its not gonna pass dude. If it begins to look like it will you can expect a new and inventive round of propaganda to begin making the rounds just in time. Schizophrenia anyone?

[Avatard]

Baby steps:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/95866749.html?cmpid=15585797

[Amber Lamps]

You're totally right dude, military guys and gals never get drunk. And they especially never get pissed drunk.

My bad.

:lol:

Are we talking about drugs or alcohol? If you are drunk or duty you are penalized, if you are caught drunk driving, you are penalized. If you get drunk and misbehave, you are penalized. I didn't say that military personnel don't get drunk. I said that there are regulations. Smoking dope is against regs and I don't think that will change whether pot is legal or not.:idk: Do you really want someone whom you depend on to keep you alive next to you high on anything? I don't. Personally, I don't care what the impairment is caused by. Please tell me that you don't think that people carrying guns, operating heavy equipment, driving, performing surgery, watching your children, etc would be okay high... Personally, I can't depend on someone that is high. Oh and everyone please stop pretending that crimes aren't committed to purchased pot...

[derf]

Within 20 years I think weed will be legalized across the board. It will take another 20-40 years for the military to let people smoke. Its gonna happen, just waiting for the current generation of old farts who grew up watching reefer madness to die off. The other big step thats gonna be needed is for a squeeky clean politician or nationally respected person (like Colin Powel) to come out and say he smokes weed recreationally.

[wildchild]

Or those who ride motorcycles but aren't adrenaline junkies.



I thought those were called moped riders.

[nhgunnut]

Responding to the Original Post here,
Anything you use internally to alter Consciousness or Perception is a drug. (that includes the Alcohol)
Drug are Inanimate objects and Harmless Until you ad Humans. Since the Majority of Ills related to Drugs are related to Anti Social behaviors that developed as the result of the prohibitive laws. (Various forms of theft to get money, IV use because cost is so high and a Huge Shadow Economy whose profits are directly related to interdiction efforts) MAKE THEM ALL LEGAL!
Treat them All as we do the drug Alcohol legislate strength and Uniformity tie use to the age of majority.
Punish Anti Social Behavior period not the state of mind.
Again treat other Substances as we do the Drug Alcohol, place a tax on them with a percentage for treatment of addicts, a percentage going for health care, the rest going to the state or federal government.
Legalization with rules governing uniformity would immediately remove the huge profits associated with the drug trade. With so much less money to be made the reduction in violence follows.
Now to acknowledge my Bias.
I am Recovering Addict who has used no recreational drugs in 29 years (including Alcohol)
I am also a Drug and Alcohol Counselor who currently vends services to the Department of Corrections in 2 states. I see the routine failure of interdiction daily.
I see nothing morally wrong with responsible recreational drug use.
I believe however it is irresponsible not to acknowledge the Alcohol Cannabis and anything else used recreational for their mind altering qualities are drugs.

[z06boy]

I don't view it as discrimination. I don't care what happens I don't see employers allowing marijuana intoxication at work. Since I don't believe a reliable test for intoxication is available the remaining option is to test for use. Until a reliable intoxication test is developed it means tough titties for weed smokers.

I think that this is one of the biggest issues with legalizing pot right here. You can be tested for alcohol use on the spot to see if you're impared 'at the moment' but with pot they can only tell if you've used it or not within the last 30 or so days but still don't know if you under the influence 'at the moment' or not.

I honestly wish it was legal.

[Amorok]

Like I mentioned before, you aren't supposed to drink 8 hours prior to showing up for duty, this is to prevent you being drunk at work. If they legalized weed and were going to let the military smoke the only way I could see it happening is if you had 30 days of leave and smoked at the beginning of it, which I bet goes on now. Tigger's right, it probably won't be legal for most of the high stress jobs, which is ironic.

[shmike]

I'd like to thank goof, smittie and nhgunnut for answering the original questions asked. :shmike:

[nhgunnut]

With no disrespect to anyone, the answers in this post reflect some basic misinformation.
There are significant differences between being physically Depended on a drug (Characterized by withdrawal symptoms ie Headaches when I don't get my coffee. Cramps disrupted digestive system and sleep disturbances resulting from suddenly stopping narcotics or the agitation seizures and death that can result from stopping alcohol )
Addiction is characterized by an altered reward cycle, a primary relationship with the drug or behavior that compromises the ability of the individual to maintain a pro-social life style.
Any drug or behavior capable of producing euphoria cna be addiciting under the DSMIV TR definition .

[derf]

Right but weed don't create the physical need for the reward of getting high, you just enjoy it and it goes away. The body doesn't crave it.

[Avatard]

Any drug or behavior capable of producing euphoria cna be addiciting under the DSMIV TR definition .

Look out, sex and chocolate!

[Kaneman]

Look out, sex and chocolate!

Both of which have the potential to be infinitely more dangerous than Marijuana.

[tallywacker]

Legalized drugs will just put more idiots out of the job market and make my search easier.

[nhgunnut]

Right but weed don't create the physical need for the reward of getting high, you just enjoy it and it goes away. The body doesn't crave it.

Again I am not ranking any drug here but any drug used in a regular fashion causes change in Neurological function and can create Neurological dependence.
Derf's Statement about Cannabis is essentially the same statement the AMA made about Cocaine in 1985. We all "Knew" Cocaine wasn't addictive. It wasn't until Robert Mullaly released hi research that the models of dependence and addiction changed.
As I have said before there is nothing wrong with responsible recreational drug use.
One of the most frightening things about American Drug use is the most Americans do not know or acknowledge what they are using. The guy down at the bar have beer or a drink doesn't know or chooses not remember he is using a Central Nervous System Depressant that is far more toxic than a narcotic and that only its route of delivery is protecting him from it's more dangerous qualities.
Most people smoking weed are unaware that it is Pharmacologically a Hallucinogenic and that the delivery system they are using is carcinogenic.
(yes guys as someone who routinely went to Canada in the 70's to buy 500 lbs of un-chlorinated Morning Glory Seeds I know that Cannabis does not behave in the same fashion as Ergot based Hallucinogens)
As far as Avatards statement about Sex and Chocolate go YUP. The food one is particularly frightening. We Americans have spent millions developing foods we can't digest like Splenda and fats like Olestra that cause "Anal Leakage" and Drugs like Ali that do the same. Bariactric Surgery in America is a growing industry <pun>. At the same time the All You can Eat Buffet is prosper and the Double Down Chicken Sandwich is available at KFC.

[derf]

Let me change my statement a little then. Weed doesnt create a physical need that leads to self destructive behaviors (and side effects) in the majority of the population.

Smoking weed isnt gonna make kaneman give blow jobs in the bathroom of the local train station to the republican senator from wisconsin for a dime bag. Especially if you can walk to the corner store and buy a pack of joints, I guarantee that the whole illegal drug trade will almost disappear over night. Jails will empty out, columbia and mexico will be forced to find new sources of income for the economy.

[Avatard]

That.

[derf]

That.

But it wouldn't surprise me to see ebbs or nts on thier knees for blunt or two. Hell, even bob sagat gave a few bj's for a bump of coke.

[Avatard]

That's odd. Coke never did a thing for me. Makes my heart beat a little faster, and it makes me clench my teeth.

6 cups of coffee do the same thing, and taste better.

[derf]

That.

But it wouldn't surprise me to see ebbs or nts on thier knees for blunt or two. Hell, even bob sagat gave a few bj's for a bump of coke.

[Amber Lamps]

Let me change my statement a little then. Weed doesnt create a physical need that leads to self destructive behaviors (and side effects) in the majority of the population.

Smoking weed isnt gonna make kaneman give blow jobs in the bathroom of the local train station to the republican senator from wisconsin for a dime bag. Especially if you can walk to the corner store and buy a pack of joints, I guarantee that the whole illegal drug trade will almost disappear over night. Jails will empty out, columbia and mexico will be forced to find new sources of income for the economy.

Horse crap! Hell, I'VE committed crimes to get weed in the past and cigarettes and alcohol... It's ridiculous to assume that people don't commit crimes to buy pot. That is totally untrue. Hell, I had a friend that sold coke and heroin to support his pot habit...true story. I've seen pot heads jump through some pretty high hoops to get a joint. Damn man, just because you and yours do something does not make it "okay"... I know you and your family smoke pot and you are able to maintain, good for you, but I've also known some pretty heavy coke users that have also kept their lives together. Does that mean that it's harmless?

People will commit crimes to get ANYTHING that they perceive as "needed".... Let me put it another way, you know for a fact that pot use could get you in deep trouble with the military and yet you still use or at least allow it to be used around you. I know a chick that lost her kids because she couldn't pass three consecutive drug tests for pot. Keep telling yourself that it's not addictive...:idk: I still don't fully understand why people can't just go through life without poisoning themselves routinely with alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, etc or are you all so delusional that you can't see that regardless of where it stacks up against "chocolate" or whatever that pot is bad for you...period.

[Avatard]

...pot is bad for you...period.

Prove it.

The government has been trying for decades, and has yet to make a convincing medical argument.

[derf]

Horse crap! Hell, I'VE committed crimes to get weed in the past and cigarettes and alcohol... It's ridiculous to assume that people don't commit crimes to buy pot. That is totally untrue. Hell, I had a friend that sold coke and heroin to support his pot habit...true story. I've seen pot heads jump through some pretty high hoops to get a joint. Damn man, just because you and yours do something does not make it "okay"... I know you and your family smoke pot and you are able to maintain, good for you, but I've also known some pretty heavy coke users that have also kept their lives together. Does that mean that it's harmless?

People will commit crimes to get ANYTHING that they perceive as "needed".... Let me put it another way, you know for a fact that pot use could get you in deep trouble with the military and yet you still use or at least allow it to be used around you. I know a chick that lost her kids because she couldn't pass three consecutive drug tests for pot. Keep telling yourself that it's not addictive...:idk: I still don't fully understand why people can't just go through life without poisoning themselves routinely with alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, etc or are you all so delusional that you can't see that regardless of where it stacks up against "chocolate" or whatever that pot is bad for you...period.

I never said any absolutes, I said most and almost. There will always be some criminal element but you will take MOST drug related crimes and they will dissapear.

Its really a bell curve 10% of the population that tries it enjoys it once and never does it again, 80% enjoy it and become recreational or medicinal users, and 10% take it to the extreme and move on to other drugs or heavy crime. What I am talking about is the 80% of folks that try it and are responsible citizens lead productive lives and do fine smoking recreationally. Its just like alcohol, 10% of drinkers drink once and never pick up a bottle again, 80% drink socially and are fine, and 10% are binge drinkers who cant handle their drink.

[Amber Lamps]

Prove it.

The government has been trying for decades, and has yet to make a convincing medical argument.

Are you claiming that you don't believe that tar is carcinogenic? Marijuana has tar levels several times higher than cigarettes...and you purposely hold the smoke in which increases your exposure to the toxins.

Posted on Sun Mar 26 2006 19:18:10 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) by Aussie Dasher

SMOKING three cannabis joints will cause you to inhale the same amount of toxic chemicals as a whole packet of cigarettes, according to research published in France today.

Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide, the French National Consumers' Institute concluded in research published in the April edition of its monthly magazine.

The institute tested regular Marlboro cigarettes alongside 280 specially rolled joints of cannabis leaves and resin in an artificial smoking machine.

The tests examined the content of the smoke for tar and carbon monoxide, as well as for the toxic chemicals nicotine, benzene and toluene.

"Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide than tobacco smoke," the institute's magazine says.

Someone smoking a joint of cannabis resin rolled with tobacco will inhale twice the amount of benzene and three times as much toluene as if they were smoking a regular cigarette, the study says.

Smokers of pure cannabis leaves will also inhale more of these chemicals than from a normal cigarette, though the amount varies depending on the quantities.

"Smoking three joints every day – which is becoming frequent – makes you run the same risks of cancer or cardio-vascular diseases as smoking a packet of cigarettes," the magazine says.

Cannabis is "by far" the most popular illicit drug in France, it says. The number of cigarette smokers and people drinking alcohol fell in 2005, while the number of cannabis users has increased in France in the past five years.

Or...



http://www.aafp.org/afp/991201ap/2583.html

Oh I know, it's all bull crap propaganda published by the gov't to keep you all down....right....

There is no shortage of data that shows that pot is biologically dangerous. Quite frankly ANYTHING you smoke is bad for you. Whether it be maple leaves or marijuana sheesh, that's a no brainer.

[derf]

And for the record, I dont smoke and people dont smoke around me, if they do I will leave because I dont want to risk my job.

[nhgunnut]

Addiction and the anti social behaviors associated with it are not related to the drug an addict who's primary relationship is with a drug will commit crimes to get the drug period. Doesn't matter whether we are talking cannabis alcohol or coke.
By the way the rate of addiction (not physical dependence is approximately 10% of those who use a drug recreationally)
The cost of the drug along with culture associated with it and to some degree the pharmacology can impact the nature of the crime.
Drugs are Harmless until you ad Humans. 9 out of 10 Humans will not have any problems with recreational drug use (regardless of the drug) Being the 10th guy my self I get the temptation to blame a substance but the evidence does not support it.

[derf]

A number of medical organizations have endorsed allowing patients access to medical marijuana with their physicians' approval. These include, but are not limited to, the following:
The American Medical Association[120][121]
The American College of Physicians – America's second largest physicians group[122]
Leukemia & Lymphoma Society – America's second largest cancer charity[123]
American Academy of Family Physicians[124]
American Alliance for Medical Cannabis
American Public Health Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Nurses Association
British Medical Association
AIDS Action
American Academy of HIV Medicine
Lymphoma Foundation of America
Health Canada

And just for reference here are 2 websites that show a list of other studies showing some of the positive (and some negative) effects

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000884

[derf]

And the other way I know you are wrong beyond a reasonable doubt is that you are a nazi!!!!

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5416/nazitigger.jpg

[Amber Lamps]

A number of medical organizations have endorsed allowing patients access to medical marijuana with their physicians' approval. These include, but are not limited to, the following:
The American Medical Association[120][121]
The American College of Physicians – America's second largest physicians group[122]
Leukemia & Lymphoma Society – America's second largest cancer charity[123]
American Academy of Family Physicians[124]
American Alliance for Medical Cannabis
American Public Health Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Nurses Association
British Medical Association
AIDS Action
American Academy of HIV Medicine
Lymphoma Foundation of America
Health Canada

And just for reference here are 2 websites that show a list of other studies showing some of the positive (and some negative) effects

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000884

Hurray!!! They put me on a morphine drip when I got my leg jacked up, does that mean that it's okay for recreational use?:idk: The pot argument is moronic, because it's "not as bad" as some drugs and it can be used medicinally, it should be legal...WHAT? My favorite is always the "well, hemp can be used to make things" argument. So if I can figure out a way to make a blanket out of poppies, I guess that heroin should be legal too.:lol: Yeesh, admit it, for the most part the people that want to legalize dope are potheads that want it to be easier to get high, bottom line. Nobody gives a rat's ass about medical use-there are several alternatives that produce the same effect as any of pot's "positive attributes". We already have paper, clothes, rope, etc...thanks. Personally I don't care how you all kill yourselves or your braincells but please quit trying to justify it with all of this crap.:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

And the other way I know you are wrong beyond a reasonable doubt is that you are a nazi!!!!

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5416/nazitigger.jpg

The only thing we did wrong was that we didn't finish the job!!! Oh and we should have included gingers in the round up... Zeig Heil!!!!!

[derf]

Hurray!!! They put me on a morphine drip when I got my leg jacked up, does that mean that it's okay for recreational use?:idk: The pot argument is moronic, because it's "not as bad" as some drugs and it can be used medicinally, it should be legal...WHAT? My favorite is always the "well, hemp can be used to make things" argument. So if I can figure out a way to make a blanket out of poppies, I guess that heroin should be legal too.:lol: Yeesh, admit it, for the most part the people that want to legalize dope are potheads that want it to be easier to get high, bottom line. Nobody gives a rat's ass about medical use-there are several alternatives that produce the same effect as any of pot's "positive attributes". We already have paper, clothes, rope, etc...thanks. Personally I don't care how you all kill yourselves or your braincells but please quit trying to justify it with all of this crap.:lol:

And how do you propose we solve the war on drug problem? We lost that a long time ago and have just been throwing money at the problem ever since. Why not legalize it save the manpower resources, add in the other positive attributes (which I believe outweigh the negatives by far) and its a win win situation to legalize it.

I guess we will just have to agree to dissagree, and that you are a nazi (I win)

[Amber Lamps]

And how do you propose we solve the war on drug problem? We lost that a long time ago and have just been throwing money at the problem ever since. Why not legalize it save the manpower resources, add in the other positive attributes (which I believe outweigh the negatives by far) and its a win win situation to legalize it.

I guess we will just have to agree to dissagree, and that you are a nazi (I win)

That's okay, next time we'll get ALL of you little bastards!!!

Seriously, I don't care if you all smoke dope, I don't care as long as it doesn't effect me personally but again, please stop pretending that the main reason you all want it legalized is so you all can get high easier. It's irritating. I want to be able to drive as fast as I want. I can produce a ton of facts and figures that support that eliminating the speed limit will make the freeways safer. That all the money thrown away on State Troopers could be used elsewhere (like the war on drugs...:lol:) That all that court time could be better used prosecuting REAL criminals. At the end of the day, it will still come back to the fact that I want to be able to drive faster. Period.

[Kaneman]

Are you claiming that you don't believe that tar is carcinogenic? Marijuana has tar levels several times higher than cigarettes...and you purposely hold the smoke in which increases your exposure to the toxins.

Posted on Sun Mar 26 2006 19:18:10 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) by Aussie Dasher

SMOKING three cannabis joints will cause you to inhale the same amount of toxic chemicals as a whole packet of cigarettes, according to research published in France today.

Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide, the French National Consumers' Institute concluded in research published in the April edition of its monthly magazine.

The institute tested regular Marlboro cigarettes alongside 280 specially rolled joints of cannabis leaves and resin in an artificial smoking machine.

The tests examined the content of the smoke for tar and carbon monoxide, as well as for the toxic chemicals nicotine, benzene and toluene.

"Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide than tobacco smoke," the institute's magazine says.

Someone smoking a joint of cannabis resin rolled with tobacco will inhale twice the amount of benzene and three times as much toluene as if they were smoking a regular cigarette, the study says.

Smokers of pure cannabis leaves will also inhale more of these chemicals than from a normal cigarette, though the amount varies depending on the quantities.

"Smoking three joints every day – which is becoming frequent – makes you run the same risks of cancer or cardio-vascular diseases as smoking a packet of cigarettes," the magazine says.

Cannabis is "by far" the most popular illicit drug in France, it says. The number of cigarette smokers and people drinking alcohol fell in 2005, while the number of cannabis users has increased in France in the past five years.

Or...



http://www.aafp.org/afp/991201ap/2583.html

Oh I know, it's all bull crap propaganda published by the gov't to keep you all down....right....

There is no shortage of data that shows that pot is biologically dangerous. Quite frankly ANYTHING you smoke is bad for you. Whether it be maple leaves or marijuana sheesh, that's a no brainer.

The Reefer Madness is strong in this one! :lol:

[Amber Lamps]

The Reefer Madness is strong in this one! :lol:

Seriously, you don't acknowledge that there are toxins in pot smoke? That these same toxins are known carcinogens? That the levels of these toxins have been PROVEN to be higher in study after study? That ANY chemical that you introduce into your body is almost always not without it's negative effects? That the very act of getting high, regardless if you're doing it by smoking pot, doing whippits, getting drunk, or hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is detrimental to your higher brain function? If I completely agree with you that pot is the absolutely least harmful drug in the entire world, will that make it "completely harmless"? So what if it's less addicting than heroin. So what if it's less harmful than crack. So what if some other legal substances are worse. Does that mean that it's okay and should be legal? Maybe we should all try to figure out a way to live in this world without Ambien, Prozac, Alcohol, Cigarettes, Pot, Crack, Lexi-pro, etc... instead of working so hard to justify their use. Maybe we can finally raise a generation of people who don't need crutches and "mommy's little helpers" to be able to go through their day to day lives... What exactly would be so wrong with that? :idk: Why do you all want to be weak and open more doors for all of your children to be weak as well? I just don't get it....

[Kaneman]

I don't smoke it. No tar for me.

And weak? You don't know me dude. Maybe your crutch is judging others. I don't see how that's any better.

[Amber Lamps]

Judging? No judging, judging requires opinion and supposition.... it is weak to need chemicals to make it through the day. Look I don't have kids so I really don't care what kind of world is left for the next generation. Go ahead raise a complete crop of prozac ambien alcohol pot muddled zombies . They won't even feel "human" until they get their chemicals ingested in the morning. Sweet. Not my kids/not my problem.

[Kaneman]

Lol. Well it there's one thing you've proven yourself be its completely emotionally stable. You da man Tigger.

[Amber Lamps]

So having opinions different from yours makes me "unstable" emotionally? I honestly don't care how you people raise your kids. Teach them that alcohol and drug use is "okay" as long as they keep it at or below what you deem is okay. Cool. I'd want my kids not to do any drugs and I would lead by example and be strong enough to eliminate that crap from my life. You can't sir with a beer in hand and say pot is wrong, reek of pot and say coke is wrong, have powder on your nose and say heroin is wrong, etc. Hypocrites.

[Smittie61984]

Oh I know, it's all bull crap propaganda published by the gov't to keep you all down....right....

There is no shortage of data that shows that pot is biologically dangerous. Quite frankly ANYTHING you smoke is bad for you. Whether it be maple leaves or marijuana sheesh, that's a no brainer.

Damn right you can't trust the government. But what about the New England Journal of Medicine? I'm not sure if the link will work but here is a clip of it.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/349/10/975
Cannabinoids

The use of marijuana or hashish produces feelings of relaxation and well-being and impairs cognitive function and performance of psychomotor tasks. Overdose can induce panic attack and psychosis.34 A high incidence of cannabis consumption has been reported among patients with schizophrenia.35 Symptoms of withdrawal — restlessness, irritability, and insomnia — are subtle and appear in heavy consumers.36 The long-term effects of high doses of cannabinoids is a complex and controversial subject. Although there is evidence that long-term use of cannabis impairs memory,37,38 the cause of the marijuana amotivational syndrome — loss of energy and drive to work — remains unclear.34

G-protein–coupled cannabinoid CB1 receptors (Figure 1 and Figure 2), which are richly distributed in basal ganglia and cerebral-cortex regions, are implicated in cannabinoid abuse and addiction. In contrast to other neurotransmitters, endocannabinoids act as retrograde messengers at many central synapses. They are released from postsynaptic neurons and activate CB1 receptors on presynaptic neurons, inhibiting the release of neurotransmitters.39 Natural ligands of CB1 receptors (anandamide, 2-arachidonylglycerol, and noladin ether) have a shorter period of action than synthetic or plant-derived cannabinoids.39 Selective synthetic agonists and antagonists of CB1 receptors are currently being developed for medical purposes


Again I think that any drug should be legal but I think people are kidding themselves if they think pot is harmless and non-addicting.

[derf]

So should alcahol be illegal? Because prohibition was pretty successful

[Amber Lamps]

So should alcahol be illegal? Because prohibition was pretty successful

here's the thing, making something illegal won't stop idiots from using it nor will making it legal suddenly transform a substance into harmlessness. I know that I'm dreaming but a world without substance abuse would be shangri-la imho. Quite frankly, I'm really not sure why that isn't the goal...:idk:

[Rangerscott]

RoboCop 2 comes to mind.

[derf]

Problem is that people want to smoke. I agree with the goal but its an unreasonable goal. As a country we need to learn from our past mistakes, one of which was prohibition in the 30s. It created criminals out of everybody who took a drink and all that came out of it were organized crime and a whole lot of illegal drinking, and all of it was created with the goal of clean living in mind. Now we are at the same point in the war on drugs, we lost a long time ago, but we just keep throwing money at it.

Repealing alcohol prohibition might not have been the perfect solution but it was a solution. It also reduced organized crime to a shadow of what it was in a few short years. It didnt get rid of it completely but the families were never as strong as they were during that time. Legalization will in time reduce drug related crime drastically,, once the industry is allowed to grow.

And yes i would love to smoke, I just dont see the military allowing it during my career.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

bring back alcohol prohibition, i wanna get a tommy gun and deal with elliot ness "the untouchables" style.

[Amber Lamps]

bring back alcohol prohibition, i wanna get a tommy gun and deal with elliot ness "the untouchables" style.

Hahaha!!! I'm with you! We need a holodeck...oops that's another thread.

[Amber Lamps]

Problem is that people want to smoke. I agree with the goal but its an unreasonable goal. As a country we need to learn from our past mistakes, one of which was prohibition in the 30s. It created criminals out of everybody who took a drink and all that came out of it were organized crime and a whole lot of illegal drinking, and all of it was created with the goal of clean living in mind. Now we are at the same point in the war on drugs, we lost a long time ago, but we just keep throwing money at it.

Repealing alcohol prohibition might not have been the perfect solution but it was a solution. It also reduced organized crime to a shadow of what it was in a few short years. It didnt get rid of it completely but the families were never as strong as they were during that time. Legalization will in time reduce drug related crime drastically,, once the industry is allowed to grow.

And yes i would love to smoke, I just dont see the military allowing it during my career.

Weren't we just talking about "drunken gunplay"?:wink: I honestly think that some jobs are too important to be performed "high" or even recently high. I'm sorry but that's my opinion. If you want to be a high on get a job at Walmart or be a dry waller....:lol:

[derf]

Totally agree with you. I expect the military to be able to smoke one day, but only after there is a effective way to detect it.

[Kaneman]

Weren't we just talking about "drunken gunplay"?:wink: I honestly think that some jobs are too important to be performed "high" or even recently high. I'm sorry but that's my opinion. If you want to be a high on get a job at Walmart or be a dry waller....:lol:

Or a commercial airline pilot!

[Avatard]

Totally agree with you. I expect the military to be able to smoke one day, but only after there is a effective way to detect it.

Wanna hear a funny? It's not really a "ha-ha" funny, but more of a "geez, how fucking evil are some motherfucking people?" kinda funny.

Anslinger. one of the bloodsucking assholes responsible for hemp prohibition, testified at the time that cannabis would cause people to become violent, and commit crimes.

Of course, years later, when asked to testify regarding soldier's use of cannabis in the war, he testified that it was essential that they not use cannabis, as it made them unwilling to fight.

Soooo...the story seems to change with the venue...

[Kaneman]

The "funny" part is that all these decades later most people still buy Anslinger's bullshit hook line and sinker...even though they've probably never even heard of him before.

[Amber Lamps]

The "funny" part is that all these decades later most people still buy Anslinger's bullshit hook line and sinker...even though they've probably never even heard of him before.

So you two believe that people operate at exactly the same capacity whether they are stoned or sober and my trepidations about working with pot heads are ill founded...

I don't know anyone that believes that people become "violent" on pot, that's crap... now not being able to count on a pot head in battle, I can get behind that premise.:panic:

[Smittie61984]

now not being able to count on a pot head in battle, I can get behind that premise.:panic:

I could get behind a pot head in battle. They'd to be too baked to move out of the way and would make a great sheild.

[Amber Lamps]

I could get behind a pot head in battle. They'd to be too baked to move out of the way and would make a great sheild.

:lol:

[Kaneman]

Apparently you guys don't know much about moderation. Performing tasks "on pot" is no different than performing a task while being a little tired. You willing to go into battle with someone who didn't get 8hrs sleep?

[goof2]

Apparently you guys don't know much about moderation. Performing tasks "on pot" is no different than performing a task while being a little tired. You willing to go into battle with someone who didn't get 8hrs sleep?

What's the difference between that and someone being "on alcohol" in moderation? I suspect not much and that isn't going to be acceptable to the military anytime soon, if ever.

[Kaneman]

What's the difference between that and someone being "on alcohol" in moderation? I suspect not much and that isn't going to be acceptable to the military anytime soon, if ever.

There is a vast amount of difference between alcohol and pot regarding the mental and physical effects on the human body. Even in small doses. The two should never be compared.

[t-homo]

Why is using on the job even being talked about? It's not like you are going to be allowed to smoke joints on smoke breaks.

[Kaneman]

Why is using on the job even being talked about? It's not like you are going to be allowed to smoke joints on smoke breaks.

Why not? I did it for over a decade and consistently performed above and beyond that of all my co-workers. I still have the reports to prove it.

People take prescription medication on the job every day and nobody bats an eye. Many people use pot as a medication, and it is far less mind altering than most medicines, and less lethal than all of them.

[derf]

Why not? I did it for over a decade and consistently performed above and beyond that of all my co-workers. I still have the reports to prove it.

People take prescription medication on the job every day and nobody bats an eye. Many people use pot as a medication, and it is far less mind altering than most medicines, and less lethal than all of them.

Hehe, you should see my reaction to tylenol 3 with codine. I might as well be doing lines of coke off a strippers ass.

[t-homo]

IMO, everyone who is going to go to work high if it were legal does anyway.

[Amber Lamps]

IMO, everyone who is going to go to work high if it were legal does anyway.

Probably true. I don't want to work/go to battle with anyone impaired in ANY way. If you have a lack of sleep because of battle necessity, it is not the same as if you drink, take meds or smoke dope on your breaks. I am always impressed by people that tell me that they perform as well stoned/drunk as they do sober. IMHO anyone that thinks that just don't know the heights they may have achieved if they hadn't been on dope.

[t-homo]

It definitely lowers my abilities a little bit at some things, but can make me better at some shit. I can sell anything to anyone when I am high.

[Kaneman]

IMHO anyone that thinks that just don't know the heights they may have achieved if they hadn't been on dope.

:lol:

[Homeslice]

Judging? No judging, judging requires opinion and supposition.... it is weak to need chemicals to make it through the day. Look I don't have kids so I really don't care what kind of world is left for the next generation. Go ahead raise a complete crop of prozac ambien alcohol pot muddled zombies . They won't even feel "human" until they get their chemicals ingested in the morning. Sweet. Not my kids/not my problem.

Do you drink, even just socially? If so, wouldn't that be "weak" as well?

[Amber Lamps]

Do you drink, even just socially? If so, wouldn't that be "weak" as well?

Nope not at all. I don't need it.

[Homeslice]

Well of course you don't NEED it, but why not simply ENJOY it once in awhile

[Amber Lamps]

Well of course you don't NEED it, but why not simply ENJOY it once in awhile

Why? What is so great about drinking? So I can be like you? So I can "fit" in with crowd... So I can wake up the next day feeling like crap? No thanks...

[Homeslice]

I said ENJOY it, not so you can "fit in"........You already said you used to drink, so why did you do it then?

[Amber Lamps]

I said ENJOY it, not so you can "fit in"........You already said you used to drink, so why did you do it then?

To fit in, peer pressure, most likely the same exact reasons almost everyone starts drinking. I know a lot of you are going to say that you love the taste of alcohol but I never did. I honestly think it tastes like crap! Perhaps I didn't buy the "good stuff"... At any rate, once I got the "courage" to start thinking for myself, I quit. It wasn't hard. I was like 22 or 23 at the time. I quit even the casual use of pot when I was around 17, I really didn't see any future in it and I have witnessed it being a gateway drug. I honestly believe in " to each his own" BUT that doesn't mean that other people aren't allowed to have an opinion about the things you do.:idk:

[Homeslice]

Fair enough. I feel the same way about coffee..... I suspect most people get into it because of trying to fit in or be adult-like....... Not because it tasted good. When you are a little kid, coffee doesn't taste good, except for truly weird kids.

[Amber Lamps]

Fair enough. I feel the same way about coffee..... I suspect most people get into it because of trying to fit in or be adult-like....... Not because it tasted good. When you are a little kid, coffee doesn't taste good, except for truly weird kids.

Oh yea, I don't drink coffee either, yuck! I even tried to come back when the espresso craze hit town but still....without a ton of sugar, chocolate, milk, etc I can't stomach coffee.

[goof2]

Looks like this may be somewhat of a test case for the testing positive for "legal" marijuana at work discussion.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/06/29/medical.marijuana.walmart.lawsuit/index.html?hpt=T2

(CNN) -- The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit against Wal-Mart for the termination of a Michigan employee whose doctor verified his illness qualified for medical marijuana use.

Wal-Mart, the nation's largest retailer, fired Joseph Casias in November 2009 after he failed an on-the-job injury-related drug test. Casias suffers from a rare form of cancer in his nasal cavity and brain, and he relied on his doctor's medical marijuana prescription to alleviate the daily pain. Casias is one of about 20,000 legal medical marijuana users in Michigan.

"Medical marijuana has had a life-changing positive effect for Joseph, but Wal-Mart made him pay a stiff and unfair price for his medicine," said Scott Michelman, staff attorney with the ACLU Drug Law Reform Project.

"No patient should be forced to choose between adequate pain relief and gainful employment, and no employer should be allowed to intrude upon private medical choices made by employees in consultation with their doctors," Michelman said.

Wal-Mart officials say they are sympathetic to Casias' condition, but the company needed to put the safety of its customers and associates first.

"As more states allow this treatment, employers are left without any guidelines except the federal standard," wrote Lorenzo Lopez, a director of media relations at Wal-Mart, in an e-mail to CNN. "In these cases, until further guidance is available, we will always default to what we believe is the safest environment for our associates and customers."

The ACLU's lawsuit, filed in Calhoun County Circuit Court in Michigan, comes at a time when the controversy over medical marijuana is still being debated in many states. To date, 14 states have laws allowing the use of medical marijuana, which protect legal users from criminalization. But the laws are murky when it comes to protecting users from termination by their employers in some states.

Casias told CNN in March that he never arrived at work high and used the medical marijuana only outside of his work hours.

Michigan is an at-will employment state, which means employers can terminate a worker for any reason except for being in a federally protected class such as race, gender and religion. The ACLU is arguing legal medical marijuana users should also be protected under a Michigan law.

"I was angry they did this to me because I always tried my best," Casias said to CNN in March. He had worked for Wal-Mart for nearly five years to support his wife and two young children. He started at the company as a grocery store stocker in 2004 before moving up to become an inventory control manager. He earned an Associate of the Year Award at Wal-Mart in 2008, a year before his termination

He has battled with his cancer for more than a decade. The lawsuit says the medical marijuana was able to provide him with pain relief.

[Amber Lamps]

Okay, that sucks but what happened to aspirin, motrin, morphine, etc? Why does it have to be pot? I've smoked pot and never realized that it had any pain relief qualities....:idk: Regardless, I can see Walmart's point here, this guy had an on site accident, the article doesn't state whether he was injured or if he had injured someone else. What's Walmart supposed to do, allow him to operate a lift until someone gets killed? Could you imagine the lawsuit?

He says that he never used at work or before work but I find that to be far fetched. Obviously, I don't know his work hours but since Walmart is open 24/7 they could be anytime. Are we to believe that he went without his "necessary" pain relief treatment all day before his afternoon shifts and then his entire shift? How long does it take for pot to completely wear off? Would it be okay for him to go out and get drunk before a shift as long as he stops drinking 4 hours before his start time?

[Evadd]

Probably true. I don't want to work/go to battle with anyone impaired in ANY way. If you have a lack of sleep because of battle necessity, it is not the same as if you drink, take meds or smoke dope on your breaks.
actually, it is. studies have shown that sleep deprivation has the same effect on a person's ability to function as consuming 1-2 alcoholic drinks per hour.

[Amber Lamps]

actually, it is. studies have shown that sleep deprivation has the same effect on a person's ability to function as consuming 1-2 alcoholic drinks per hour.

Okay, I don't know you so I'll need to ask a couple questions; 1 have you ever been in combat? I have. 2. Do you know the difference between necessary and voluntary?

In combat and even sometimes in life, you are FORCED to go without the proper amount of sleep. You are not FORCED to get high. Besides as a lot of the guys will back me up, in the military, you are often FORCED to go without sleep, why would you want to add pot to that? Do you have a study that proves that getting high when you are overly tired makes you a better soldier? If so then break it out, I'd be interested to read what they have to say.

Basically, what a lot of you are trying to say is that having your left hand cut off is just as detrimental as cutting off your own right hand... Okay, so why do you all want to cut off both? Hey, here's an idea, how about we strive to come to work/combat well rested and sober? You know instead of making excuses why getting high is the same as __________ or doing ________ is just as bad as getting high. Let's not do either if we have the choice.

[Evadd]

Okay, I don't know you so I'll need to ask a couple questions; 1 have you ever been in combat? I have. 2. Do you know the difference between necessary and voluntary?

In combat and even sometimes in life, you are FORCED to go without the proper amount of sleep. You are not FORCED to get high. Besides as a lot of the guys will back me up, in the military, you are often FORCED to go without sleep, why would you want to add pot to that? Do you have a study that proves that getting high when you are overly tired makes you a better soldier? If so then break it out, I'd be interested to read what they have to say.

Basically, what a lot of you are trying to say is that having your left hand cut off is just as detrimental as cutting off your own right hand... Okay, so why do you all want to cut off both? Hey, here's an idea, how about we strive to come to work/combat well rested and sober? You know instead of making excuses why getting high is the same as __________ or doing ________ is just as bad as getting high. Let's not do either if we have the choice.

easy, cowboy. i have no problem with people working fatigued when they have to. i do 30-hour shifts (better than the 36 i used to do) and make on-the-spot life and death decisions.

my statement was ONLY about your statement saying fatigue is not the same as being intoxicated. it IS, and studies have proven it. would i want someone drunk AND intoxicated? no, and that's a stupid question that has nothing to do with what i said.

[Kaneman]

easy, cowboy. i have no problem with people working fatigued when they have to. i do 30-hour shifts (better than the 36 i used to do) and make on-the-spot life and death decisions.

my statement was ONLY about your statement saying fatigue is not the same as being intoxicated. it IS, and studies have proven it. would i want someone drunk AND intoxicated? no, and that's a stupid question that has nothing to do with what i said.

Careful with that there logic buddy...scary stuff.

[Amber Lamps]

easy, cowboy. i have no problem with people working fatigued when they have to. i do 30-hour shifts (better than the 36 i used to do) and make on-the-spot life and death decisions.

my statement was ONLY about your statement saying fatigue is not the same as being intoxicated. it IS, and studies have proven it. would i want someone drunk AND intoxicated? no, and that's a stupid question that has nothing to do with what i said.

It is not the same because you sometimes HAVE to work tired, you never HAVE to work while high. I'm not talking the effects here, who cares? Saying that heroin is worse than pot or pot isn't any worse than not sleeping doesn't matter. I don't want to have to count on you regardless of what is impairing you.

[Amber Lamps]

Careful with that there logic buddy...scary stuff.

It's not linear buddy, I don't want to work with you in either case. Is your argument still going to be that "pot isn't any worse than "X" so pot should be okay"? Again, why can't we try to live without drugs/alcohol? What is up with you all?

[nhgunnut]

It's not linear buddy, I don't want to work with you in either case. Is your argument still going to be that "pot isn't any worse than "X" so pot should be okay"? Again, why can't we try to live without drugs/alcohol? What is up with you all?
I have done without out drugs including alcohol for the past 29 years. SO it can be done, but I know of no significant harm to the individual or society if they are used responsibly.

[Amber Lamps]

I have done without out drugs including alcohol for the past 29 years. SO it can be done, but I know of no significant harm to the individual or society if they are used responsibly.

Me too!

[Kaneman]

It's not linear buddy, I don't want to work with you in either case. Is your argument still going to be that "pot isn't any worse than "X" so pot should be okay"? Again, why can't we try to live without drugs/alcohol? What is up with you all?

No, just that you are unjustly prejudice. As if you haven't worked with hundreds of people, successful people, over the years that use "drugs."

[Avatard]

It's not linear buddy, I don't want to work with you in either case. Is your argument still going to be that "pot isn't any worse than "X" so pot should be okay"? Again, why can't we try to live without drugs/alcohol? What is up with you all?

We're not as perfect as you.

:cry:

[Amber Lamps]

No, just that you are unjustly prejudice. As if you haven't worked with hundreds of people, successful people, over the years that use "drugs."

yes "success", well, how is that measured? How will we ever know how much more successful they could have been? Heck, maybe less... Which number is higher, "successful" drug addicts or loser drug addicts?:idk:

We're not as perfect as you.

:cry:

So not being a drug addict or alcoholic makes me "perfect"? Hmmm... well thanks!

[Kaneman]

yes "success", well, how is that measured? How will we ever know how much more successful they could have been? Heck, maybe less... Which number is higher, "successful" drug addicts or loser drug addicts?:idk:


Success is measured by happiness. Incredibly happy people are incredibly successful.

The number of people who use chemicals to alter their state of mind but are still successful and not addicts FAR outweigh those who end up circling the drain. By what margin I don't know, but considering that pretty much everyone you and I know uses chemcials to alter their mental state, it makes me think its a very large margin indeed.

[Amber Lamps]

Success is measured by happiness. Incredibly happy people are incredibly successful.

The number of people who use chemicals to alter their state of mind but are still successful and not addicts FAR outweigh those who end up circling the drain. By what margin I don't know, but considering that pretty much everyone you and I know uses chemcials to alter their mental state, it makes me think its a very large margin indeed.

and let me guess, NOW you want to include ANYTHING in the chemical category to prove your point...sigh. Okay, you win, there's nothing wrong with alcohol, drug, cigarette, use... I'm the foolish one and you all are the wiser.:lol:

[Kaneman]

and let me guess, NOW you want to include ANYTHING in the chemical category to prove your point...sigh. Okay, you win, there's nothing wrong with alcohol, drug, cigarette, use... I'm the foolish one and you all are the wiser.:lol:

Never said that. You do have a funny habit of putting phrases into people's "mouths" so to speak.

[Amber Lamps]

Never said that. You do have a funny habit of putting phrases into people's "mouths" so to speak.

I was surmising what you might say and didn't say you said that but if you'd like to read the thread... You did say, "mind altering" a few posts ago and it was determined that caffeine is "mind altering" so...:wink:

Oh and speaking of telling people what they know...

Your statement,

"No, just that you are unjustly prejudice. As if you haven't worked with hundreds of people, successful people, over the years that use "drugs.""

Look, you win bro, I hope you all live happy and productive brain addled lives. Hopefully, you'll remember at least 50% of it.:lol:

[Kaneman]

You would've made Anslinger proud.

[Amber Lamps]

You would've made Anslinger proud.

and I'm sure Jim Morrison is cheering you on from dopehead hell! Better?

[Kaneman]

and I'm sure Jim Morrison is cheering you on!

Doubt it. I'm a horrible singer.

[Avatard]

I doubt it too, motherfucker's dead.

[Amber Lamps]

I doubt it too, motherfucker's dead.

Hmmm... do you happen to know who Anslinger is? Oh I see, "doing him proud" vs "cheering you on", hmmm... getting really picky, huh? Okay, I'll do an edit.

[Kaneman]

Hmmm... do you happen to know who Anslinger is? Oh I see, "doing him proud" vs "cheering you on", hmmm... getting really picky, huh? Okay, I'll do an edit.

Pretty sure he was kidding there buddy, maybe you were too sober to figure it out eh?

You sure do keep up with asinine arguments good for a guy that works 70 a week! You go booooyyyyeeee!!!

[goof2]

yes "success", well, how is that measured? How will we ever know how much more successful they could have been? Heck, maybe less... Which number is higher, "successful" drug addicts or loser drug addicts?:idk:

You do realize the majority of people who use drugs or alcohol are not drug addicts or alcoholics don't you?

[Kaneman]

You do realize the majority of people who use drugs or alcohol are not drug addicts or alcoholics don't you?

Judging from the vast majority of his posts on this subject I'd say no, which was the point I was illustrating to him...or trying to anyway. Meh.

[Amber Lamps]

Pretty sure he was kidding there buddy, maybe you were too sober to figure it out eh?

You sure do keep up with asinine arguments good for a guy that works 70 a week! You go booooyyyyeeee!!!

No, he meant that dead people can't "cheer", makes sense actually. You said I was doing "A" proud which is possible post mortem...:idk: I do appointments from 7:30 am to about 9 pm Mon-Sat, I am actually leaving to do another job now. There are gaps in between jobs which I fill shopping and post whoring on my phone.

[Avatard]

Hmmm... do you happen to know who Anslinger is? Oh I see, "doing him proud" vs "cheering you on", hmmm... getting really picky, huh? Okay, I'll do an edit.

You should have caught that given all that clear-headed thinking you must have.

:fu2:

[Amber Lamps]

You do realize the majority of people who use drugs or alcohol are not drug addicts or alcoholics don't you?

Says who? Many "experts" believe that any regular use of drugs or alcohol constitutes addiction. You know a few beers every night or compulsive drinking every Fri/Sat. A joint "just to relax", every night after work. Etc.

[Amber Lamps]

Judging from the vast majority of his posts on this subject I'd say no, which was the point I was illustrating to him...or trying to anyway. Meh.

Hey these are my honest beliefs... apparently, I come off as an arrogant "perfect" ass and some of you look like addicts making excuses...:idk: To each their own. I like being sober.

[Kaneman]

Nah, you just come off kinda naive on the subject, no biggie.

[goof2]

Says who? Many "experts" believe that any regular use of drugs or alcohol constitutes addiction. You know a few beers every night or compulsive drinking every Fri/Sat. A joint "just to relax", every night after work. Etc.

Show me the "experts" who believe the majority of drinkers are alcoholics or the majority of marijuana smokers are drug addicts.:skep:

[Avatard]

Hey these are my honest beliefs... apparently, I come off as an arrogant "perfect" ass and some of you look like addicts making excuses...:idk: To each their own. I like being sober.

Bullshit. I was making fun of you [it's easy]. You're no different.

Your compulsion, or vice is just not readily apparent here.

You might like the adrenaline of base jumping, or perhaps you're just a chronic masturbater...but I assure you you aren't perfect, and your "bent" is just not readily apparent.

You just think you're better, and you judge others. Wrongly.

[Amber Lamps]

You should have caught that given all that clear-headed thinking you must have.

:fu2:

Um I did, Kaneman didn't... you quoted my post, didn't you read it?:lol: I said that I understand why you said that and corrected my post accordingly.

[Dragonpaco]

this has gotten retarded, who wants to go smoke a bowl?

[Amber Lamps]

Nah, you just come off kinda naive on the subject, no biggie.

That's weird considering that I've been surrounded by alcoholism and drug abuse my entire life.:idk: I can honestly say that I have seen every type of drug used personally. Heck, I saw dudes free basing back in the day, I've watched crack be made, seen people shoot up, been in a meth house, etc. One of my brothers is/was a junkie and the other has done time for dealing. I could go on but why bother? You all seem to feel that you need drugs/alcohol and that their use is perfectly okay and even somewhat necessary. Okay. I honestly believe that we all should strive to eliminate them from the world and that we would be so much better off with out them. Small point, some of you are so protective of the environment but you go on polluting your own bodies/minds...:idk:

[Amber Lamps]

Show me the "experts" who believe the majority of drinkers are alcoholics or the majority of marijuana smokers are drug addicts.:skep:

I don't think I said that. Although, regular use of alcohol is considered alcoholism in some circles. Seriously. My definition is that if you "need" something, then you are addicted. imho.

[Kaneman]

That's weird considering that I've been surrounded by alcoholism and drug abuse my entire life.:idk: I can honestly say that I have seen every type of drug used personally. Heck, I saw dudes free basing back in the day, I've watched crack be made, seen people shoot up, been in a meth house, etc. One of my brothers is/was a junkie and the other has done time for dealing. I could go on but why bother? You all seem to feel that you need drugs/alcohol and that their use is perfectly okay and even somewhat necessary. Okay. I honestly believe that we all should strive to eliminate them from the world and that we would be so much better off with out them. Small point, some of you are so protective of the environment but you go on polluting your own bodies/minds...:idk:

You association with drug addicts only serves to skew your perspective. Besides, reading your posts pollutes my mind more than any chemical compound.

[Amber Lamps]

this has gotten retarded, who wants to go smoke a bowl?

Aw it helped me pass the time between jobs so :rockwoot:

[Amber Lamps]

Bullshit. I was making fun of you [it's easy]. You're no different.

Your compulsion, or vice is just not readily apparent here.

You might like the adrenaline of base jumping, or perhaps you're just a chronic masturbater...but I assure you you aren't perfect, and your "bent" is just not readily apparent.

You just think you're better, and you judge others. Wrongly.

I believe that it is you that is judging me here...:idk:

[Dragonpaco]

you go on polluting your own bodies/minds...:idk:

so even though pot doesn't destroy any of our lives and it doesnt hurt anyone when we smoke it you still want it prohibited and have our jails flooded with people who did nothing more than try to unwind a little bit? why is it any concern to you what people do by themselves or with other like minded people as long as they do it responsibly?

[Amber Lamps]

so even though pot doesn't destroy any of our lives and it doesnt hurt anyone when we smoke it you still want it prohibited and have our jails flooded with people who did nothing more than try to unwind a little bit? why is it any concern to you what people do by themselves or with other like minded people as long as they do it responsibly?

it's not, I've never even said that it should be illegal. You have to read the posts buddy before you get on my case.:lol: In fact, my only prohibiting statement was against it's use in the workplace, especially in the military/police/construction/etc where your use can affect me as a coworker as it affects your ability to carry out your duties effectively. It doesn't matter to me what you do on someone else's job site, foxhole, etc. I thought I made that clear.

I certainly don't want our jails "flooded" with those poor, innocent drug users... wait, did they know that the substance was illegal and yet they continued to use it? Why? Hey, the stuff isn't addicting, right? Yet they continue to keep using it and getting busted. Why?

[Dragonpaco]

I certainly don't want our jails "flooded" with those poor, innocent drug users... wait, did they know that the substance was illegal and yet they continued to use it? Why? Hey, the stuff isn't addicting, right? Yet they continue to keep using it and getting busted. Why?

because some people dont want to drink or take perscription pills to take the edge off and they see pot as their best choice be it legal or not. this country has had some ass backwards laws in its time and only through people ignoring them were they able to finally change. do you think pot will ever be legal if people act complicit with its legal status?

[goof2]

I don't think I said that. Although, regular use of alcohol is considered alcoholism in some circles. Seriously. My definition is that if you "need" something, then you are addicted. imho.

Pretty much. Reread our posts. I said most are not addicts. You challenged that with "says who?". You then went on to create your own argument about what some experts think that was irrelevant to disputing my statement. I'm pointing out that irrelevancy.

You have chosen to not drink or use drugs. That is fine for you, but you seem to have attached some kind of nobility to that decision which I fail to see.

[z06boy]

That's weird considering that I've been surrounded by alcoholism and drug abuse my entire life.:idk: I can honestly say that I have seen every type of drug used personally. Heck, I saw dudes free basing back in the day, I've watched crack be made, seen people shoot up, been in a meth house, etc. One of my brothers is/was a junkie and the other has done time for dealing. I could go on but why bother? You all seem to feel that you need drugs/alcohol and that their use is perfectly okay and even somewhat necessary. Okay. I honestly believe that we all should strive to eliminate them from the world and that we would be so much better off with out them. Small point, some of you are so protective of the environment but you go on polluting your own bodies/minds...:idk:

Maybe this (if it's even true :idk:) is why you have such a strong and imho skewed opinion on the subject. You seem to think that anyone who just happens to enjoy a drink or a joint recreationally is an addict.

Seriously. My definition is that if you "need" something, then you are addicted. imho.

Sure if you 'need' it but like I said above...what if you just enjoy it ? If it was gone tomorrow and I never had another drink or anything else it wouldn't be a big deal at all but since it is...and I enjoy a drink now and then and do wish that pot was legal and would smoke it from time to time if it was doesn't mean I 'need' it. When I've done it in the past it was because I actually enjoyed it. :idk:

I am in agreement with you about using it in the work place...especially in the examples you gave above.

[Amber Lamps]

because some people dont want to drink or take perscription pills to take the edge off and they see pot as their best choice be it legal or not. this country has had some ass backwards laws in its time and only through people ignoring them were they able to finally change. do you think pot will ever be legal if people act complicit with its legal status?

Ah but WHY is it so important that smoking pot be made legal? That's where you are all losing me. You sound as if it is NECESSARY for you all to be able to smoke pot and that's my point. Why is it so necessary? Why not just stop using it all together? It's illegal, there are health risks-whether you want to admit it or not and it does inhibit your ability to function effectively to some extent. Why is it so incredibly impossible to contemplate discontinuing it's use? Why do you NEED it so bad? :idk: You all attack me because I think that it's bad without citing any reasons why it's so good beyond "you want it" and "it's not as bad as ______".

[Avatard]

Ah but WHY is it so important that smoking pot be made legal? That's where you are all losing me. You sound as if it is NECESSARY for you all to be able to smoke pot and that's my point. Why is it so necessary?

Because in a free society, one should be FREE TO DO TO THEIR OWN BODIES WHATEVER THE MOTHERFUCK THEY WISH. THAT'S CALLED FREEDOM.

:db:

[Amber Lamps]

Pretty much. Reread our posts. I said most are not addicts. You challenged that with "says who?". You then went on to create your own argument about what some experts think that was irrelevant to disputing my statement. I'm pointing out that irrelevancy.

You have chosen to not drink or use drugs. That is fine for you, but you seem to have attached some kind of nobility to that decision which I fail to see.

and you are attaching some sort of necessity to using drugs/alcohol that I fail to see. Oh and I don't think that I am more "noble" than any of you users but apparently, I am more capable of facing reality/life than you are.:idk:

Here you are, good luck.

http://www.alcoholscreening.org/Screening/Page04.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism
http://www.medicinenet.com/alcohol_abuse_and_alcoholism/article.htm

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/pdf/ascp/vol4no1/marijuana.pdf

[Dragonpaco]

Why do you NEED it so bad? :idk: You all attack me because I think that it's bad without citing any reasons why it's so good beyond "you want it" and "it's not as bad as ______".

because it makes this the funniest shit i've ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc

[Avatard]

and you are attaching some sort of necessity to using drugs/alcohol that I fail to see.

FREEDOM, motherfucker, look it up.

[Amber Lamps]

Maybe this (if it's even true :idk:) is why you have such a strong and imho skewed opinion on the subject. You seem to think that anyone who just happens to enjoy a drink or a joint recreationally is an addict.



Sure if you 'need' it but like I said above...what if you just enjoy it ? If it was gone tomorrow and I never had another drink or anything else it wouldn't be a big deal at all but since it is...and I enjoy a drink now and then and do wish that pot was legal and would smoke it from time to time if it was doesn't mean I 'need' it. When I've done it in the past it was because I actually enjoyed it. :idk:

I am in agreement with you about using it in the work place...especially in the examples you gave above.


Maybe, oh and thanks! I was starting to think that I'm the only one that thinks people shouldn't get high at work...that is all that I originally said, you know.:lol: BTW if you NEED to get high at work, that's dependence my friends, pure and simple. As far as I'm concerned if you are willing to do something that is illegal, unhealthy, will get you fired from your job, etc, you must be addicted. Merely "enjoying" something doesn't justify the risks that they are taking to use it imho. I enjoy Skittles but I'd quit eating them tomorrow if they were illegal or could get me fired from my job. I do understand that the sugar isn't great for me though...not perfect, never said I was.:lol:

[Avatard]

Now that you mention it, the sugar in skittles IS more harmful than Marijuana.

It's 50% Fructose, which is a TOXIN.

Ref:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM]

By your logic, the skittles should be illegal.

By my logic (freedom), you're free to ingest what you choose, since it's your body.

You show remarkable density for someone with a supposedly clear head. It's probably best you stay as sharp as you can, and avoid drugs ;)

[Amber Lamps]

Because in a free society, one should be FREE TO DO TO THEIR OWN BODIES WHATEVER THE MOTHERFUCK THEY WISH. THAT'S CALLED FREEDOM.

:db:

I have only said people shouldn't use it when it's use can cause harm to others... Oh and if you think that you are free to do whatever you want even if it could harm me or mine... well, I guess I'll be free to do whatever I deem necessary to protect myself and my family.:panic: You shouldn't be "free" to operate a crane while high, or drive a car, or carry a gun, or supervise children, etc. I guess you think that everyone should be free to do whatever they want... cool, keep that crap over there, bro and it's all good.

[Dragonpaco]

Maybe, oh and thanks! I was starting to think that I'm the only one that thinks people shouldn't get high at work...that is all that I originally said, you know.:lol: BTW if you NEED to get high at work, that's dependence my friends, pure and simple. As far as I'm concerned if you are willing to do something that is illegal, unhealthy, will get you fired from your job, etc, you must be addicted. Merely "enjoying" something doesn't justify the risks that they are taking to use it imho. I enjoy Skittles but I'd quit eating them tomorrow if they were illegal or could get me fired from my job. I do understand that the sugar isn't great for me though...not perfect, never said I was.:lol:

take me as an example. i need to take painkillers before work because i have a degenerated disc in my spine. if i dont take them i am no good to anyone at my job and my coworkers or myself could get hurt. does this make me an addict?

[Avatard]

I have only said people shouldn't use it when it's use can cause harm to others... Oh and if you think that you are free to do whatever you want even if it could harm me or mine... well, I guess I'll be free to do whatever I deem necessary to protect myself and my family.:panic: You shouldn't be "free" to operate a crane while high, or drive a car, or carry a gun, or supervise children, etc. I guess you think that everyone should be free to do whatever they want... cool, keep that crap over there, bro and it's all good.

Your rights end where mine begin, and vice-versa.

If my impairment causes you harm, I'm at fault, but that's the case if it's fucking OTC allergy pills, or heroin.

Argument fail.

[Amber Lamps]

FREEDOM, motherfucker, look it up.

Why is it in every argument, you start with the name calling? Can't you state your argument without profanity or name calling?:idk:

Your "freedom" does not include endangering me or the people that I care for. What about my freedom to drive my car without worrying about drunks and dopeheads on the road? What about my freedom to go to work without wondering if the guy operating the Pettibone is impaired? You can have all the "freedom" you wish as long as it doesn't affect me.

[Kaneman]

take me as an example. i need to take painkillers before work because i have a degenerated disc in my spine. if i dont take them i am no good to anyone at my job and my coworkers or myself could get hurt. does this make me an addict?

Yes, tough it out. Pussy.

[Kaneman]

Why is it in every argument, you start with the name calling? Can't you state your argument without profanity or name calling?:idk:

Your "freedom" does not include endangering me or the people that I care for. What about my freedom to drive my car without worrying about drunks and dopeheads on the road? What about my freedom to go to work without wondering if the guy operating the Pettibone is impaired? You can have all the "freedom" you wish as long as it doesn't affect me.

I wish I had the freedom to go out without sharing the road with people that insist on talking on their phones. Fucking phone addicts. Goddamn cellheads.

[Amber Lamps]

Now that you mention it, the sugar in skittles IS more harmful than Marijuana.

It's 50% Fructose, which is a TOXIN.

Ref:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM]

By your logic, the skittles should be illegal.

By my logic (freedom), you're free to ingest what you choose, since it's your body.

You show remarkable density for someone with a supposedly clear head. It's probably best you stay as sharp as you can, and avoid drugs ;)


Maybe it should, but I didn't see anything in there about someone eating some Skittles and swerving into oncoming traffic and killing a mother and her three daughters on their way home from dance practice. I keep saying, I don't care what you do to yourself. If it were up to me suicide would be legal. I said that I don't wish your habits to endanger me or the people that I care for. Why is that so wrong? How exactly is that impinging on your precious freedom? Does anyone else ever get the feeling that some of these guys ONLY smoke pot BECAUSE it is illegal to prove how edgy and rebellious they are? :idk:

[Kaneman]

You mean like how selfish pricks talk on their phones while they drive and end up swerving into another lane and killing someone?

[goof2]

and you are attaching some sort of necessity to using drugs/alcohol that I fail to see. Oh and I don't think that I am more "noble" than any of you users but apparently, I am more capable of facing reality/life than you are.:idk:

Here you are, good luck.

http://www.alcoholscreening.org/Screening/Page04.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism
http://www.medicinenet.com/alcohol_abuse_and_alcoholism/article.htm

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/pdf/ascp/vol4no1/marijuana.pdf

I'll deal with the necessity issue below.

As for the links, I don't see how posting more irrelevant information changes anything. About the only thing of relevance I saw was in the last link, which states:

"Some 9 percent of those who try marijuana develop dependence compared to, for example, 15 percent of people who try cocaine and 24 percent of those who try heroin."

This specifically agrees with my statement.

Ah but WHY is it so important that smoking pot be made legal? That's where you are all losing me. You sound as if it is NECESSARY for you all to be able to smoke pot and that's my point. Why is it so necessary? Why not just stop using it all together? It's illegal, there are health risks-whether you want to admit it or not and it does inhibit your ability to function effectively to some extent. Why is it so incredibly impossible to contemplate discontinuing it's use? Why do you NEED it so bad?:idk: You all attack me because I think that it's bad without citing any reasons why it's so good beyond "you want it" and "it's not as bad as ______".

Legalizing pot, at least for me, has nothing to do with need. I have no interest in smoking it. The government can legalize it tomorrow and I will neither buy it or use it. What I don't like is the government deciding to deny something to people without a pretty damn good reason. With marijuana the government has failed to give me that reason. That being the case "I want it" is sufficient justification to make it legal.

[Amber Lamps]

take me as an example. i need to take painkillers before work because i have a degenerated disc in my spine. if i dont take them i am no good to anyone at my job and my coworkers or myself could get hurt. does this make me an addict?

No it makes you a potential liability. If you were at home or at a job that didn't require you to operate heavy equipment, this wouldn't be an issue. I actually, don't know what you do for a living so I wouldn't know but if the pain killers you take make you incapable of performing your job without risk to others and you can't do the job without them, then you shouldn't be there. Real Talk. I don't know you or what the extent of your condition is but I would hope that your doctor proscribed a dosage that is small enough that you can complete your work without endangering yourself or anyone else.:idk: Anyway, so if your case is valid then everyone should be able to get high at work? What's your point?:idk:

[dubbs]

I have only said people shouldn't use it when it's use can cause harm to others... Oh and if you think that you are free to do whatever you want even if it could harm me or mine... well, I guess I'll be free to do whatever I deem necessary to protect myself and my family.:panic: You shouldn't be "free" to operate a crane while high, or drive a car, or carry a gun, or supervise children, etc. I guess you think that everyone should be free to do whatever they want... cool, keep that crap over there, bro and it's all good.

I think at this point you're just arguing to argue.. I don't think you're really listening to what people are saying. Where do you take what avatard said and figure out that it has ANYTHING to do with you?

To be perfectly clear, everyone who is for legalizing weed has the argument that the government or any other individual *should* not have the right to regulate what you do to yourself that does not directly affect anyone else's well being. If you want to shovel fast food down your throat you should be able to, but it will kill you a lot faster than ingesting weed or smoking it through a vaporizer. Should we make it illegal? What about all those people that eat it in moderation? Food can be addictive as well, should we just say fuck it and ban all of it?

Weed is not physically addictive so the addict argument is thrown out. I don't need it but sometimes it's nice to do on a recreational basis. The fact that we want it legal is because at any random time, swat teams can come breaking into your house looking for that 1/8 you have (been done many times before) and lives are ruined for something that is naturally occurring. Absolutely no reason for it.

[Kaneman]

I think at this point you're just arguing to argue.. I don't think you're really listening to what people are saying. Where do you take what avatard said and figure out that it has ANYTHING to do with you?



That's the fun part dude. :lol: Why do you think we're still here. Its based on the Theory of Tigorium...

Once you get him wound up it only takes a couple of sentences to have him spewing paragraph after paragraph.

[Amber Lamps]

I'll deal with the necessity issue below.

As for the links, I don't see how posting more irrelevant information changes anything. About the only thing of relevance I saw was in the last link, which states:

"Some 9 percent of those who try marijuana develop dependence compared to, for example, 15 percent of people who try cocaine and 24 percent of those who try heroin."

This specifically agrees with my statement.



Legalizing pot, at least for me, has nothing to do with need. I have no interest in smoking it. The government can legalize it tomorrow and I will neither buy it or use it. What I don't like is the government deciding to deny something to people without a pretty damn good reason. With marijuana the government has failed to give me that reason. That being the case "I want it" is sufficient justification to make it legal.


But WE are the government, WE made pot illegal in the first place and WE have the power to make it legal anytime we want. Real Talk. Go out and make it legal then, be my guest.:lol: Heck, go make cocaine legal while you're at it, who cares? Seriously, show me where there's proof that cocaine is any more addictive than nicotine? Caffeine? Etc... You guys kill me, my initial argument is that I don't want people being high at work. Period. You will not change my mind or come up with any plausible justification that I will accept. Seriously.

[Kaneman]

But WE are the government, WE made pot illegal in the first place and WE have the power to make it legal anytime we want.

No dude, not even close.

[dubbs]

That's the fun part dude. :lol: Why do you think we're still here. Its based on the Theory of Tigorium...

Once you get him wound up it only takes a couple of sentences to have him spewing paragraph after paragraph.

I thought the point of discussion was to express your viewpoint and consider others as well? Otherwise your just mouthing off and everyone else is just wasting their time talking to a wall.

[Amber Lamps]

I think at this point you're just arguing to argue.. I don't think you're really listening to what people are saying. Where do you take what avatard said and figure out that it has ANYTHING to do with you?

To be perfectly clear, everyone who is for legalizing weed has the argument that the government or any other individual *should* not have the right to regulate what you do to yourself that does not directly affect anyone else's well being. If you want to shovel fast food down your throat you should be able to, but it will kill you a lot faster than ingesting weed or smoking it through a vaporizer. Should we make it illegal? What about all those people that eat it in moderation? Food can be addictive as well, should we just say fuck it and ban all of it?

Weed is not physically addictive so the addict argument is thrown out. I don't need it but sometimes it's nice to do on a recreational basis. The fact that we want it legal is because at any random time, swat teams can come breaking into your house looking for that 1/8 you have (been done many times before) and lives are ruined for something that is naturally occurring. Absolutely no reason for it.

My argument was against getting high at work... all the rest of this is smoke and mirrors...

[dubbs]

You guys kill me, my initial argument is that I don't want people being high at work. Period. You will not change my mind or come up with any plausible justification that I will accept. Seriously.

The thing that you have to accept (being that it is reality) is that people do it anyway, whether it's legal or not. If you make it legal the biggest benefit is you can keep it away from children easier, and no more drug cartels killing people for power.

[Kaneman]

everyone else is just wasting their time talking to a wall.

Yea dude, that's the point. Tigger's just hooking me up with some entertainment cause he knows I'm stuck in a boring place right now.

[Amber Lamps]

The thing that you have to accept (being that it is reality) is that people do it anyway, whether it's legal or not. If you make it legal the biggest benefit is you can keep it away from children easier, and no more drug cartels killing people for power.

Okay... attention, I don't care whether it is legal or not, I don't want people getting high at work when I have to depend on them for my safety. I don't care if children get high, or you, or cancer patients, etc as long as they don't work on my job site.:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

No dude, not even close.

Well there's your problem then....

[Kaneman]

Okay... attention, I don't care whether it is legal or not, I don't want people getting high at work when I have to depend on them for my safety. I don't care if children get high, or you, or cancer patients, etc as long as they don't work on my job site.:lol:

What about all hundreds of people that you've worked with through the years who use illegal substances, performed their jobs admirably, and you were none the wiser?

[dubbs]

Okay... attention, I don't care whether it is legal or not, I don't want people getting high at work when I have to depend on them for my safety. I don't care if children get high, or you, or cancer patients, etc as long as they don't work on my job site.:lol:

Well then I suggest you wake up and realize ppl don't give a shit and will never stop doing that. People can't even drive cars properly.. you want them to act responsibly with their addictions? lol

[Amber Lamps]

Yea dude, that's the point. Tigger's just hooking me up with some entertainment cause he knows I'm stuck in a boring place right now.

More importantly, I'm waiting for my next appointment....:lol:

[Kaneman]

Well there's your problem then....

Absolutely that is the problem, that's what we're rallying against. Californians have the best chance this Nov, but I still don't see it happening. And even in places where citizens have voted it decriminalized Police still raid houses and kill family pets for Marijuana.

[dubbs]

Absolutely that is the problem, that's what we're rallying against. Californians have the best chance this Nov, but I still don't see it happening. And even in places where citizens have voted it decriminalized Police still raid houses and kill family pets for Marijuana.

eh, he doesn't care about that. He just doesn't want to work with stoners.

[Amber Lamps]

What about all hundreds of people that you've worked with through the years who use illegal substances, performed their jobs admirably, and you were none the wiser?

I didn't say that I can make it possible... Heck, I want all women to be hot, sexy and want me 24/7...that's not going to happen either. I honestly would rather have a world without addictions, I really can't see why that is "wrong". Some of you are acting as if I came out against breathing or something.:lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

Okay... attention, I don't care whether it is legal or not, I don't want people getting high at work when I have to depend on them for my safety. I don't care if children get high, or you, or cancer patients, etc as long as they don't work on my job site.:lol:

You run that risk with everything, legal or otherwise.

People come to work drunk and people come to work high... I don't think the legality of the substance is relevant to users bringing it into the workplace.

[Kaneman]

eh, he doesn't care about that. He just doesn't want to work with stoners.

Yea I know, I was just speaking in vague terms. Although, if you can convince someone who doesn't care about that subject that there is reason for everyone to care, even those who will never use, then that's a victory.

Tigger is old, like grandpa old, and old guys are furiously stubborn.

[Amber Lamps]

Well then I suggest you wake up and realize ppl don't give a shit and will never stop doing that. People can't even drive cars properly.. you want them to act responsibly with their addictions? lol

YES!!! strangely enough, I would like that very much...:idk:

[Kaneman]

Dude are you on your phone right now?

[Dragonpaco]

No it makes you a potential liability. If you were at home or at a job that didn't require you to operate heavy equipment, this wouldn't be an issue. I actually, don't know what you do for a living so I wouldn't know but if the pain killers you take make you incapable of performing your job without risk to others and you can't do the job without them, then you shouldn't be there. Real Talk. I don't know you or what the extent of your condition is but I would hope that your doctor proscribed a dosage that is small enough that you can complete your work without endangering yourself or anyone else.:idk: Anyway, so if your case is valid then everyone should be able to get high at work? What's your point?:idk:

i dont work with heavy machinery, i'm an emt and a bouncer. and i take 20mg of percocets so i'm able to walk and stand without experiencing crippling pain. i NEED my pills because strangely enough i was t-boned into a phone pole by a 17 year old under the influence of a cell phone. i dont consider myself an addict and i dont consider pot a bad thing. personally i'd rather smoke pot to releive my pain than pop opiates, at least with pot there is abosolutely no chance that i could overdose. i dont want to argue the merits of pot with you since i'll just get excuses about how you only want it to be banned at work or how it's as addicting as heroin or whatever. i think you feel strongly about drugs in general due to some experiences you had and instead of looking at each one objectively you generalize them all in a group of shit thats bad.

[Amber Lamps]

eh, he doesn't care about that. He just doesn't want to work with stoners.

Exactly what I originally said. Since then I have been deflecting "excuses" and "justifications" for drug/alcohol use in general. I'm more than happy to debate these things with you guys for entertainment value but I don't honestly care what you all do to yourselves.:lol: I'm seriously pro-suicide. I mean that. If it came to a vote, I would vote yes!:rockwoot:

[Amber Lamps]

Dude are you on your phone right now?

No, do you need to call me? I have my phone tethered to my laptop...:idk:

[Kaneman]

Exactly what I originally said. Since then I have been deflecting "excuses" and "justifications" for drug/alcohol use in general. I'm more than happy to debate these things with you guys for entertainment value but I don't honestly care what you all do to yourselves.:lol: I'm seriously pro-suicide. I mean that. If it came to a vote, I would vote yes!:rockwoot:

And as you well know the way you phrase thing and throw names or negative connotations around induces more argument and debate. Awww...he's so cute when he pways innocent....

No, do you need to call me? I have my phone tethered to my laptop...:idk:

I was just curious if you were able to post that quickly from your N1.

[Amber Lamps]

i dont work with heavy machinery, i'm an emt and a bouncer. and i take 20mg of percocets so i'm able to walk and stand without experiencing crippling pain. i NEED my pills because strangely enough i was t-boned into a phone pole by a 17 year old under the influence of a cell phone. i dont consider myself an addict and i dont consider pot a bad thing. personally i'd rather smoke pot to releive my pain than pop opiates, at least with pot there is abosolutely no chance that i could overdose. i dont want to argue the merits of pot with you since i'll just get excuses about how you only want it to be banned at work or how it's as addicting as heroin or whatever. i think you feel strongly about drugs in general due to some experiences you had and instead of looking at each one objectively you generalize them all in a group of shit thats bad.

Okay but it's not an excuse... to be honest though, I wouldn't want to be treated by an EMT that is high... maybe that's just me...:idk:

[Amber Lamps]

And as you well know the way you phrase thing and throw names or negative connotations around induces more argument and debate. Awww...he's so cute when he pways innocent....



I was just curious if you were able to post that quickly from your N1.

Oh yea I can but I get a lot of incorrect words from Slide-it, so it's better that I use my LT when I have it.

[Kaneman]

Okay but it's not an excuse... to be honest though, I wouldn't want to be treated by an EMT that is high... maybe that's just me...:idk:

Do you realize that if you could get your wish of never having to deal with people who were under the influence of some random chemical compound that you wouldn't be able to function within society?

You are greatly overestimating the effect some of these chemicals actually have on the central nervous system, thought processes, etc. etc.

[dubbs]

YES!!! strangely enough, I would like that very much...:idk:

Unfortunately for you as well as everyone else that would like that, that only exists in a fantasy.

[Dragonpaco]

Okay but it's not an excuse... to be honest though, I wouldn't want to be treated by an EMT that is high... maybe that's just me...:idk:

i'll tell you right now, that if you've been treated by an emt, chances are he is or was high recently. there is a shit ton of pot smokers in ems

[goof2]

But WE are the government, WE made pot illegal in the first place and WE have the power to make it legal anytime we want. Real Talk. Go out and make it legal then, be my guest.:lol:

If WE are the government and the majority of US didn't want the health care bill how the hell did that end up passing?

WE are not the government. WE elect people to go represent US in the government. Once they get there WE have nothing to say about what they do until it is time for US to vote again.

Heck, go make cocaine legal while you're at it, who cares? Seriously, show me where there's proof that cocaine is any more addictive than nicotine? Caffeine? Etc... You guys kill me, my initial argument is that I don't want people being high at work. Period. You will not change my mind or come up with any plausible justification that I will accept. Seriously.

That was your initial argument, and it was something on which I readily agreed with you. It is some of your other statements and secondary arguments which I take issue with.

[dubbs]

i'll tell you right now, that if you've been treated by an emt, chances are he is or was high recently. there is a shit ton of pot smokers in ems

Yeah, I know quite a few that do that. My friends cousin goes out on Fire/EMT calls drunk half the time. Fucked up shit.

[Avatard]

Maybe it should, but I didn't see anything in there about someone eating some Skittles and swerving into oncoming traffic and killing a mother and her three daughters on their way home from dance practice. I keep saying, I don't care what you do to yourself. If it were up to me suicide would be legal. I said that I don't wish your habits to endanger me or the people that I care for. Why is that so wrong? How exactly is that impinging on your precious freedom? Does anyone else ever get the feeling that some of these guys ONLY smoke pot BECAUSE it is illegal to prove how edgy and rebellious they are? :idk:

Cut the fucking drama shit, Anslinger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z5jkYvKscw

Point is moot. You are more likely to be taken out by a teen on a cell.

[Amber Lamps]

Cut the fucking drama shit, Anslinger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z5jkYvKscw

Point is moot. You are more likely to be taken out by a teen on a cell.

And I never said that's okay either... so if there are teens on cell phones driving on the road then it should be okay for you to drive drunk or high? I don't get it...

[Amber Lamps]

Do you realize that if you could get your wish of never having to deal with people who were under the influence of some random chemical compound that you wouldn't be able to function within society?

You are greatly overestimating the effect some of these chemicals actually have on the central nervous system, thought processes, etc. etc.

Okay let's say that DP is perfectly capable of being an outstanding EMT stoned on pot. Does that mean that every EMT is okay to work high? If even 1 out of 1000 EMTs can't function properly high then none should to it. Imho

[Kaneman]

And I never said that's okay either... so if there are teens on cell phones driving on the road then it should be okay for you to drive drunk or high? I don't get it...

Did you even watch the vid? The whole point is that weed does not have a tangible effect on driving prowess. You keep saying "drunk or high" as if the two are interchangeable and that's just not true. Clearly you are speaking of something you do not have enough experience with to have formed a correct perspective and instead are relying on a basic D.A.R.E. education that most Americans believe to be the truth.

Driving under the influence of THC vs. Alcohol are two completely different things that should not be compared for the basis of your argument that you do not want to work next to "dopeheads."

[Amber Lamps]

i'll tell you right now, that if you've been treated by an emt, chances are he is or was high recently. there is a shit ton of pot smokers in ems

Oh well that makes it okay then...

[Kaneman]

Okay let's say that DP is perfectly capable of being an outstanding EMT stoned on pot. Does that mean that every EMT is okay to work high? If even 1 out of 1000 EMTs can't function properly high then none should to it. Imho

And once again you should be rallying against them working under the influence of fatigue or heavy amounts of caffeine as well, something nearly every EMT in the business has to deal with. I would argue that a severely fatigued, but chemically sober EMT is more dangerous than a moderately fatigued EMT under the influence of normal amounts of THC.

Oh well that makes it okay then...

It does make it ok if they are able to perform their tasks to the expected amounts of quality while under the influence of THC.

[Amber Lamps]

If WE are the government and the majority of US didn't want the health care bill how the hell did that end up passing?

WE are not the government. WE elect people to go represent US in the government. Once they get there WE have nothing to say about what they do until it is time for US to vote again.



That was your initial argument, and it was something on which I readily agreed with you. It is some of your other statements and secondary arguments which I take issue with.

Fair enough but you realize that anyone can start a petition to get a law put up for vote right? College students in Ann Arbor got a law passed making possession of pot a $2 civil infraction. Just saying.

[Kaneman]

Fair enough but you realize that anyone can start a petition to get a law put up for vote right? College students in Ann Arbor got a law passed making possession of pot a $2 civil infraction. Just saying.

That will do little good when the general populace has been systematically brainwashed with blatant lies and anti-pot propaganda for the past 70 years.

[Amber Lamps]

BTW posting from my phone...

[Amber Lamps]

That will do little good when the general populace has been systematically brainwashed with blatant lies and anti-pot propaganda for the past 70 years.

You don't believe that pot is good for you or has zero ill effects do you?

[Kaneman]

You don't believe that pot is good for you or has zero ill effects do you?

I believe its effects have been very good for me and that it has zero ill effect on my health, longevity or mental status. Like Avatard I began using THC for medicinal reasons, however I don't claim to be a medicinal user at this point, really recreational. Still, at the time, it was extremely beneficial to my health.

[Dragonpaco]

You don't believe that pot is good for you or has zero ill effects do you?

does being awesome and a little hungry count as an ill effect?

[Amber Lamps]

Hey okay guys, I honestly wish you both well and thanks for the tip...if I'm ever involved in an accident with an EMT I will demand a drug test and sue the crap out of the company.

[Kaneman]

Hey okay guys, I honestly wish you both well and thanks for the tip...if I'm ever involved in an accident with an RMT I will demand a drug test and Sue the crap out of the company.

Yea, because frivolous medical lawsuits don't have a negative effect on society at all. Way to go!

How could you have such a strong opinion of something you've never done?

[Amber Lamps]

And once again you should be rallying against them working under the influence of fatigue or heavy amounts of caffeine as well, something nearly every EMT in the business has to deal with. I would argue that a severely fatigued, but chemically sober EMT is more dangerous than a moderately fatigued EMT under the influence of normal amounts of THC.



It does make it ok if they are able to perform their tasks to the expected amounts of quality while under the influence of THC.


Again what's wrong being against both conditions? Why does it have to br one of the other? I want my EMTs sober and fresh as daisies...what's wrong with that?

[Amber Lamps]

Yea, because frivolous medical lawsuits don't have a negative effect on society at all. Way to go!

How could you have such a strong opinion of something you've never done?

Why is it frivolous if the Guy was high? If I am drunk/high/overly tired and kill people I should be sued.

Oh and I said that I smoked pot in high school and quit when I grew up...

[Smittie61984]

Again what's wrong being against both conditions? Why does it have to br one of the other? I want my EMTs sober and fresh as daisies...what's wrong with that?

Just offer them a 99cent bag of Doritos for an extra hit of morphine.

I'm going to EMT school next tuesday (well providing my back is working by then). Will smoking a doobie before class help my grades?

[Kaneman]

Again what's wrong being against both conditions? Why does it have to br one of the other? I want my EMTs sober and fresh as daisies...what's wrong with that?

What's wrong with it is that is a completely unrealistic expectation. It is a complete fantasy. Very rarely will you get an EMT that is fresh as a daisy, as the job does not promote that. What you will most likely get is someone with good training who reacts well and appropriately in life or death situations.

Have you ever been an EMT BTW? I speak from experience as a former EMT who graduated school #1 in my class, who studied under the influence of THC, and who consistently got VERY high reviews from EMT and Firefighter personnel in the field. So, I know have some experience that relates to this specific subject.

My point, whether you are against them both or not, is that you should recognize as a basic truth that THC/CBD does not effect the CNS or human behavior in nearly a profound a manner as alcohol does, and in your mind, your way of thinking, you should not equate the two to be the same.

I'm just advocating truth? Why do you hate truth?

[Kaneman]

Why is it frivolous if the Guy was high? If I am drunk/high/overly tired and kill people I should be sued.

Oh and I said that I smoked pot in high school and quit when I grew up...

It depends on whether the Marijuana was the cause or not. Was he running code 3 and you pulled out in front of him? Did he just smoke 5 bong bowls of KUSH in the back with his buddy? Did he have one hit off a joint? You know, this is a very specific situation, so to just say "what if I got into a wreck with an EMT who was under the influence of THC" doesn't work into a logical discussion as there are far too many variables.

Fair enough, I must've missed that. My apologies.

[Amber Lamps]

So if you think something it's "truth" and I think something it's crap... :D cool I feel the same WAY!

[Kaneman]

So if you think something it's "truth" and I think something it's crap

In this case, yes.

[Amber Lamps]

It depends on whether the Marijuana was the cause or not. Was he running code 3 and you pulled out in front of him? Did he just smoke 5 bong bowls of KUSH in the back with his buddy? Did he have one hit off a joint? You know, this is a very specific situation, so to just say "what if I got into a wreck with an EMT who was under the influence of THC" doesn't work into a logical discussion as there are far too many variables.

Fair enough, I must've missed that. My apologies.

Anyway... I'm getting a pretty good post rate off my phone, no?

[Kaneman]

Anyway... I'm getting a pretty good post rate off my phone, no?

Yea that's so funny because I was about to say that even before I read this. You keep up quite well from the phone. You just using the standard keyboard?

[goof2]

Fair enough but you realize that anyone can start a petition to get a law put up for vote right? College students in Ann Arbor got a law passed making possession of pot a $2 civil infraction. Just saying.

You do realize that no matter how many signatures you get on a petition there is no way to put a referendum on a federal ballot right? Those college students in Ann Arbor are still breaking a federal law with a penalty of at least a $1,000 fine and up to a year in jail for a first offense. Second offense numbers jump to at least $2,500 and up to two years (15 days minimum). Third is at least $5,000 and up to three years (90 days minimum). Just saying.

[Amber Lamps]

Yea that's so funny because I was about to say that even before I read this. You keep up quite well from the phone. You just using the standard keyboard?

Yep! Whenever I try to use Slide it or voice I get lots of mistakes so I just use the built in keyboard. It usually guesses what word I'm shooting for... usually.

[Amber Lamps]

In this case, yes.

Fair enough! Do you think it's okay for a doctor to be high before he operates on you? Your family? Your dog? I don't but apparently it's just me again... ;D

[Kaneman]

Fair enough! Do you think it's okay for a doctor to be high before he operates on you? Your family? Your dog? I don't but apparently it's just me again... ;D

Define "high". Would I agree with a Doctor smoking a blunt of hydroponic marijuana by himself and then working on me or family, no, that's a bit overboard. Do I have a problem with a toke or two, no, I don't.

The Doctor that was on call when my son crashed on his second night in the ICU was at the end of a 36 hour shift. His eyes were so red they looked like they were bleeding and he was on his second Red Bull in 3 hours. While he was trying to perform a difficult re-intubation, his hands were very shaky, and it was close.

He got the job done and saved my son's life, despite being severely impaired. I have no problem with the state he was in, as that is part of life.

[Amber Lamps]

You do realize that no matter how many signatures you get on a petition there is no way to put a referendum on a federal ballot right? Those college students in Ann Arbor are still breaking a federal law with a penalty of at least a $1,000 fine and up to a year in jail for a first offense. Second offense numbers jump to at least $2,500 and up to two years (15 days minimum). Third is at least $5,000 and up to three years (90 days minimum). Just saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

Oh and I'm no law student but I always thought that the Federal gov't sets the overall guidelines but the states can pass laws that contradict federal statutes to an extent...

[Kaneman]

Oh and I'm no law student but I always thought that the Federal gov't sets the overall guidelines but the states can pass laws that contradict federal statutes to an extent...

They can, but that doesn't mean Fed. Gov. will abide by them. DEA raids on state approved Medical Marijuana facilities are a perfect example of this.

[Amber Lamps]

Define "high". Would I agree with a Doctor smoking a blunt of hydroponic marijuana by himself and then working on me or family, no, that's a bit overboard. Do I have a problem with a toke or two, no, I don't.

The Doctor that was on call when my son crashed on his second night in the ICU was at the end of a 36 hour shift. His eyes were so red they looked like they were bleeding and he was on his second Red Bull in 3 hours. While he was trying to perform a difficult re-intubation, his hands were very shaky, and it was close.

He got the job done and saved my son's life, despite being severely impaired. I have no problem with the state he was in, as that is part of life.

But wouldn't it have been "better" if that wasn't the case and he wasn't "impaired"? :idk:

Back on the laptop btw...:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

They can, but that doesn't mean Fed. Gov. will abide by them. DEA raids on state approved Medical Marijuana facilities are a perfect example of this.

Hmmm...okay, well it's a place to start right?:idk: All I know is, my grandparents weren't allowed to vote in this country at one time and now one of "us" is president...things can and do change if enough people want them to.

[Dragonpaco]

But wouldn't it have been "better" if that wasn't the case and he wasn't "impaired"? :idk:

Back on the laptop btw...:lol:

in emergency medicine you will not find a single person who is not, high, sleep deprived or speeding. we work crazy shifts usually for days on end and the amount of patients we see daily gets in the way of whatever sleep we are able to get.

[goof2]

Hmmm...okay, well it's a place to start right?:idk: All I know is, my grandparents weren't allowed to vote in this country at one time and now one of "us" is president...things can and do change if enough people want them to.

As Kaneman already stated medical marijuana is legal in California, yet the DEA raids dispensary places anyway. Concerning the voting thing, all that took was the Civil War and an amendment to the Constitution.:lol:

[Kaneman]

But wouldn't it have been "better" if that wasn't the case and he wasn't "impaired"? :idk:

Back on the laptop btw...:lol:

Wouldn't it be better if we were all born with a million dollar trust and had a wet nurse built like Pam Anderson? Or in this case, wouldn't it have been better if he hadn't gotten into the wreck in the first place?

Yes, it would be fucking awesome, but that's not the world we live in. I'm not making fun of your question, I'm just showing that from my perspective I live in a world with realistic expectations. People are not ever going to be at 100% alertness on any consistent basis, that's not the way the world works. My argument is that using marijuana has such a negligible effect on a person's CNS, cognitive and other functions that it should be viewed and overlooked the same way we do other accepted behaviors, such as drinking copious amounts of caffeine to make it through a tough shift, driving cars when we are tired from a long day, and so on and so forth.

My other point of contention is that even though you continuously point out how dopeheads are likely to kill someone driving while high, you admit to using a cell phone while driving a motor vehicle, something that is actually proven to greatly increase the likelyhood of a motor vehicle collision.

Would it be better if you didn't drive and talk at the same time? Yes, you would be less distracted....but that's not the world we live in, and I don't hold it against you for talking and driving, I don't look down on you, think you're addicted to your phone, or anything of the sort. Whereas you would look at someone who hit a joint before they left for work in the morning and think lowly of them, to the point of calling them an addict or dopehead.

[Amber Lamps]

As Kaneman already stated medical marijuana is legal in California, yet the DEA raids dispensary places anyway. Concerning the voting thing, all that took was the Civil War and an amendment to the Constitution.:lol:

Um the Civil War was fought over state's rights and slavery but basically, we went from slavery to the presidency in 150 years, not too shabby. Anyway, if there really were an overwhelming majority of voters that wanted pot to be legalized, it would be. real talk.

[Amber Lamps]

Wouldn't it be better if we were all born with a million dollar trust and had a wet nurse built like Pam Anderson? Or in this case, wouldn't it have been better if he hadn't gotten into the wreck in the first place?

Yes, it would be fucking awesome, but that's not the world we live in. I'm not making fun of your question, I'm just showing that from my perspective I live in a world with realistic expectations. People are not ever going to be at 100% alertness on any consistent basis, that's not the way the world works. My argument is that using marijuana has such a negligible effect on a person's CNS, cognitive and other functions that it should be viewed and overlooked the same way we do other accepted behaviors, such as drinking copious amounts of caffeine to make it through a tough shift, driving cars when we are tired from a long day, and so on and so forth.

My other point of contention is that even though you continuously point out how dopeheads are likely to kill someone driving while high, you admit to using a cell phone while driving a motor vehicle, something that is actually proven to greatly increase the likelyhood of a motor vehicle collision.

Would it be better if you didn't drive and talk at the same time? Yes, you would be less distracted....but that's not the world we live in, and I don't hold it against you for talking and driving, I don't look down on you, think you're addicted to your phone, or anything of the sort. Whereas you would look at someone who hit a joint before they left for work in the morning and think lowly of them, to the point of calling them an addict or dopehead.

Yea but here's the real difference between me and your friend Avatard, I respect your right to have an opinion. It's not a matter of right and wrong necessarily. I don't agree that it's "impossible" to live in a world where the people in the medical profession aren't overworked, jacked up on Red Bull or high. I think that it's very possible but it will take some reformation of the medical establishment. Oh and I know several EMTs and last I knew they are drug tested so I'm not sure how they are all out smoking dope...:idk: Oh and I think that the driving while impaired argument, may have been about drinking but regardless you can justify a wrong by pointing out that I'm doing something wrong... How does that make what you're doing okay? If I take pot shots at passing school buses with an M24, will that make it okay for you to molest children? Of course not.

[Kaneman]

Um the Civil War was fought over state's rights and slavery but basically, we went from slavery to the presidency in 150 years, not too shabby. Anyway, if there really were an overwhelming majority of voters that wanted pot to be legalized, it would be. real talk.

And there would be, were they not victims of a very effective propaganda campaign. Real talk

[Kaneman]

Yea but here's the real difference between me and your friend Avatard, I respect your right to have an opinion. It's not a matter of right and wrong necessarily. I don't agree that it's "impossible" to live in a world where the people in the medical profession aren't overworked, jacked up on Red Bull or high. I think that it's very possible but it will take some reformation of the medical establishment. Oh and I know several EMTs and last I knew they are drug tested so I'm not sure how they are all out smoking dope...:idk:

Avatar and I both know that your opinions on this subject are based on lies...so its a special situation so to speak.

Drug tests are very simple to beat.

[Amber Lamps]

Avatar and I both know that your opinions on this subject are based on lies...so its a special situation so to speak.

Drug tests are very simple to beat.

Actually, most of my opinions are based on personal experience... I don't think that someone can operate at their peak level high... I've been high, I've seen high, I know what high is and people that are high aren't firing on all cylinders imho.

[Dragonpaco]

i'm high right now and my tv watching and pizza eating abilities are at their peak right now.

[Kaneman]

Actually, most of my opinions are based on personal experience... I don't think that someone can operate at their peak level high... I've been high, I've seen high, I know what high is and people that are high aren't firing on all cylinders imho.

Smoking pot in high school is hardly enough experience to fall back on...that was what, like 1956? The game had changed since then.

[askmrjesus]

I have only said people shouldn't use it when it's use can cause harm to others..

I honestly believe that we all should strive to eliminate them from the world and that we would be so much better off with out them.

All that pot you're not smoking, seems to be clouding your little brain again.

I think we should strive to rid the world of douchebags who are addicted to white leather motorcycle gear, and shiny bling with buttons on it. No one NEEDS that stuff, and I don't like it, so fuck what other people want.

Folks have been seeking ways to make life a little more bearable since the beginning of recorded history. If you think that's all going to stop, you're on glue.

It's not our fault that your family is comprised of losers who can't handle their shit, so take your "life would be so much better" bullshit, and fuck off.

JC

[Amber Lamps]

All that pot you're not smoking, seems to be clouding your little brain again.

I think we should strive to rid the world of douchebags who are addicted to white leather motorcycle gear, and shiny bling with buttons on it. No one NEEDS that stuff, and I don't like it, so fuck what other people want.

Folks have been seeking ways to make life a little more bearable since the beginning of recorded history. If you think that's all going to stop, you're on glue.

It's not our fault that your family is comprised of losers who can't handle their shit, so take your "life would be so much better" bullshit, and fuck off.

JC


What an eloquent argument... insults and profanity, outstanding. :rockwoot:

[Amber Lamps]

Smoking pot in high school is hardly enough experience to fall back on...that was what, like 1956? The game had changed since then.

"the game"? I know that you think that you are still at your peak performance when you are high but I disagree. At any rate, my only real opinion is that people shouldn't use drugs/alcohol at work. The rest is unimportant to me. I still can't make sense of your "since they are already over-fatigued" or "because you talk on the phone while driving" arguments and why it makes a case for workplace drug use.:idk: If in fact, an EMT is already fatigued, why would you want to add pot to the equation? Also, if I and my fellow blue tooth users are already endangering the roadways, why would you want to add drivers that are high?:idk:

[Amber Lamps]

In any case, bro. I was mostly just trying to bs with you while you were up all night with your son. Now that the big guns have come out and insulted me and my family, I'm out. Hopefully we can find another thread to help pass the time or you can pm me if you'd like. Later.