Judge Blocks Obama's Ban on Offshore Drilling

[RACER X]

thank god.

http://www.aolnews.com/gulf-oil-spill/article/judge-mulls-whether-to-overturn-barack-obamas-deepwater-drilling-ban/19525723?ncid=webmail

[azoomm]

Yay!

[Kaneman]

I bet it won't stick.

[Homeslice]

Yay companies who put profit above safety

[nhgunnut]

I am not thrilled that drilling will be reinstated but I am thrilled that this administration is stringing up a long line of losses in federal court. When challanges against Obamacare hit the courts watching it be overturned will thrill me

[Particle Man]

pwned.

[Amorok]

While I think the oil companies need to be held to much higher standards I have to acknowledge that stopping all offshore activity is going to put a lot of guys around here out of work. Stopping drilling for six months is meaningless. What they need to do is force the oil companies to review their safety practices and be accountable. If that involves a period of inactivity then so be it, but workers should be compensated.

[goof2]

Yay companies who put profit above safety

This ban hurt any company involved in deepwater drilling, regardless of how they prioritize safety and profit.

[njchopper87]

While I think the oil companies need to be held to much higher standards I have to acknowledge that stopping all offshore activity is going to put a lot of guys around here out of work. Stopping drilling for six months is meaningless. What they need to do is force the oil companies to review their safety practices and be accountable. If that involves a period of inactivity then so be it, but workers should be compensated.

This sequence of words is to my liking. It's not just the people's jobs though.. we can't totally depend on foreign oil.

[Papa_Complex]

Judge Who Stuck Down Moratorium Invests In Oil (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128061745)

June 23, 2010

The federal judge who struck down the Obama administration's six-month moratorium on deepwater oil drilling has a number of investments in oil- and gas-related companies. Questions are now being raised about whether Judge Martin Feldman's decision Tuesday could have been influenced by those investments.

TRANSCRIPT

MICHELE NORRIS, host:

From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Michele Norris.

ROBERT SIEGEL, host:

And I'm Robert Siegel.

The secretary of the interior, Ken Salazar, told Congress today that he's working on a new moratorium on deep water oil drilling. That's after a federal judge in New Orleans yesterday blocked the Obama administration's previous drilling plan. But the judge's decision was surprising in part because federal agencies usually have broad powers to regulate industries. It's also surprising in this detail about the man behind the ruling. Judge Martin Feldman had financial investments in the oil industry as recently as 2008.

NPR's Robert Smith has the story.

ROBERT SMITH: Judge Feldman gave the oil industry everything it wanted in the lawsuit. He slapped down and ridiculed the Obama administration's decisions. He argued that an accident on just one rig, the Deepwater Horizon, did not mean that all rigs are dangerous. What Feldman didn't mention in court was that as recently as 2008, he held stock in the company that owned the Deepwater Horizon.

Feldman had between one and $15,000 in TransOcean Limited. But some environmental groups say no matter how little the amount, the judge should've stepped aside. Kate Gordon studies energy with the liberal think tank the Center for American Progress.

Ms. KATE GORDON (Center for American Progress): It would be one thing if it were sort of three steps removed financial interest, but we're talking about dividend checks to this judge for a company who has two contracts that are being canceled because of the moratorium. That's pretty direct.

SMITH: Now I should make this clear - we don't know if Judge Feldman still owns stock in TransOcean. He hasn't reported yet for this year. And TransOcean was not a plaintiff in this case. But as of 2008, Judge Feldman did have a whole bunch of small investments in energy stocks, Parker Drilling, Hercules Offshore, Halliburton.

Ed Sherman, a law professor at Tulane University says that's not really surprising. Anyone with a diversified portfolio is going to have oil. And Sherman says that owning stocks in a broad industry doesn't mean you can't rule on cases in that industry.

Professor ED SHERMAN (Law, Tulane University): Judge Feldman is a respected judge and he did make a careful opinion. I would be surprised if that ownership of small amounts of stock would affect him in any way.

SMITH: Feldman is after all a pretty conservative judge to start with, appointed by Ronald Reagan, a close friend of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Still, the financial disclosure looked bad.

Professor CHARLES GEYH (Law, Indiana University): One needs to be a little bit more mindful of public perception, I think.

SMITH: Charles Geyh, a professor of law at Indiana University, says this is a make or break series of cases for the petroleum industry.

Prof. GEYH: There are going to be people who are worrying this issue like a sore tooth. And they're going to be suspicious of everything. You really need to ask yourself whether a reasonable person who's fully informed would doubt the judge's impartiality.

SMITH: And it's just going to get harder and harder to find judges that everyone trusts as the number of legal cases in the Gulf balloons. The Associated Press found that almost 60 percent of active judges in the region report some sort of financial tie to the oil and gas industry. And by the way, if Judge Feldman does still own TransOcean stock, he has lost a ton of money. It's half of what it was worth three months ago. And yesterday's decision didn't help the closing stock price.

Robert Smith, NPR News, New Orleans.

[nhgunnut]

I am not defending this judge,but the majority of people that have something other than social security as part of their retirement plan have at least some investment in oil companies, banks and health insurance companies. SO I love it when these self righteous morons rant against big companies THEY have invested in through their 401K or other brokered investment.

[pauldun170]

The stop order on offshore drilling is logical considering the information on equipment and practices that came out of the current shennanigans.

With the enviromental and economic impact of the current mess at both the local and national scales, I'd rather a stop order be issued so that other operations could be reviewed rather than...

"Hey guys, yall keep doing what yer doing...we'll be around soon to check ya out"

When a plane blows because of a defective part or design, you ground the whole fleet so you can inspect them.
You don't keep em flying because grounding will hurt the industries stock price.

[Papa_Complex]

Seems pretty logical to me too. Since there are a finite number of companies involved, several of which have been implicated in this fiasco, it seems only smart to call a moratorium and check that existing regulations are actually being followed.

[azoomm]

That would make sense, if any regulations were broken or even being checked.

[Homeslice]

That would make sense, if any regulations were broken or even being checked.

I don't know about regulations, but I have seen at least 3-4 articles talking about questionable engineering decisions on that rig.

[Papa_Complex]

Weren't they required to have preventers in place that would have stopped the natural gas release, that caused the initial explosion?

[azoomm]

They had a BOP. Its what is still on the ground.

The decisions came with applied permits the government approved.

[EpyonXero]

The stop order on offshore drilling is logical considering the information on equipment and practices that came out of the current shennanigans.

With the enviromental and economic impact of the current mess at both the local and national scales, I'd rather a stop order be issued so that other operations could be reviewed rather than...

"Hey guys, yall keep doing what yer doing...we'll be around soon to check ya out"

When a plane blows because of a defective part or design, you ground the whole fleet so you can inspect them.
You don't keep em flying because grounding will hurt the industries stock price.

Pretty much.

[goof2]

The stop order on offshore drilling is logical considering the information on equipment and practices that came out of the current shennanigans.

With the enviromental and economic impact of the current mess at both the local and national scales, I'd rather a stop order be issued so that other operations could be reviewed rather than...

"Hey guys, yall keep doing what yer doing...we'll be around soon to check ya out"

When a plane blows because of a defective part or design, you ground the whole fleet so you can inspect them.
You don't keep em flying because grounding will hurt the industries stock price.

From what I have seen there has mostly been speculation about what happened. We know the blow-off preventer valve failed. There isn't much information beyond that. I suspect there will not be much more information about this specific failure until the valve can be brought up from the bottom months, if not years, from now.

For your airplane comparison, look at TWA 800. It blew up and killed 230 people. There was immediate grounding of 747s as a result. No recommendations were made about the fleet by the NTSB until their final report was released 4 years later. Aircraft fleets are usually not grounded unless there is an identified fault known to affect the whole fleet that poses an immediate danger if not fixed. I don't see all deepwater drilling being at that level.

[Papa_Complex]

In the aviation industry they will ground an entire fleet precisely to determine IF a common fault exists.

[KSGregman]

When a plane blows because of a defective part or design, you ground the whole fleet so you can inspect them.
You don't keep em flying because grounding will hurt the industries stock price.

This....

And when you conduct the inspections...and find out that it's not a defective part, it's deliberate corner cutting causing the problem...you bust the ever loving shit out of the people responsible.

[goof2]

In the aviation industry they will ground an entire fleet precisely to determine IF a common fault exists.

True, but they don't do it based on an unidentified fault on a single aircraft. Look at the rudder issues that caused multiple 737 crashes resulting in hundreds of fatalities. It took years to identify what the problem was, and even more years before the fix was required. I don't believe the 737 fleet was ever grounded.

[goof2]

This....

And when you conduct the inspections...and find out that it's not a defective part, it's deliberate corner cutting causing the problem...you bust the ever loving shit out of the people responsible.

Also true, but they don't "bust the ever loving shit out of" the entire airline industry, which would be the comparison to this complete deepwater drilling ban.

[azoomm]

But, in this case it was't JUST the BOP.

If the cement job would have held....
If the riser wasn't displaced with seawater....
If the....

And, the government was notified and approved the capping of this well. The disaster plan of an estimated FIVE MONTHS from TransOcean and BP was approved on the permit. And, now everyone is upset with BP over the fact that it will take five months?

:idk:

Hell, let's fuck over the entire industry. That's cool....

[pauldun170]

But, in this case it was't JUST the BOP.

If the cement job would have held....
If the riser wasn't displaced with seawater....
If the....

And, the government was notified and approved the capping of this well. The disaster plan of an estimated FIVE MONTHS from TransOcean and BP was approved on the permit. And, now everyone is upset with BP over the fact that it will take five months?

:idk:

Hell, let's fuck over the entire industry. That's cool....


The government is playing it safe.
It would rather risk fucking over the "industry" then fuck over "people".
Once they get the information they need and put together the fancy reports saying "Iz okay" the ban will be lifted.

[azoomm]

The government is playing it safe.
It would rather risk fucking over the "industry" then fuck over "people".
Once they get the information they need and put together the fancy reports saying "Iz okay" the ban will be lifted.

:lol: Errrrr, ok.

[KSGregman]

If the cement job would have held........

Who approved that type of placement for the cement? From what I read, it was not to industry standards?


If the riser wasn't displaced with seawater....

Who approved this decision? And more importantly...WHY? From what I read, the decision was made in order to save a little time...and a lot of money...against the judgement of the drilling crew.


And, now everyone is upset with BP over the fact that it will take five months?

Fucking off the recovery is only PART of the reason people are upset....the true anger derives from the fact that these people (Transocean and BP and Halliburton and the Federal Regulators charged with over seeing the activities of all of the above....CAUSED this issue....through negligence...corner cutting...attempting to save money rather than be conservative...and safe. Now, 11 people are dead....the Gulf of Mexico (and anywhere else the oil/sludge/tar/gas winds up going) is fucked for YEARS...likely DECADES.

So, um, yeah....people are pissed...and they SHOULD be.

[azoomm]

I know nothing about what type of process Haliburton used, all I know is it didn't hold. Filling the riser with saltwater is part of the normal process, they have to displace it with something to recover the mud. This well was "done" which is why they were doing it. I'm not criticizing what they did, only that it was the timing of things happening. Any one isolated thing happening in the process wouldn't have caused a catastrophe. But, six things together.... and boom.

People are just mad. I'm ok with that. I'm not arguing whether they should be. Just being knee jerk and bitching for the sake of it all should be something I'm used to, huh?

After all, I should be "glad" this is going down. Or so I was told by someone that it will make my husband's job safer. I would be, except I was told that by several people who have no idea what he does, what happened here, what goes on, where he is, blah blah blah.

[Papa_Complex]

I know nothing about what type of process Haliburton used, all I know is it didn't hold. Filling the riser with saltwater is part of the normal process, they have to displace it with something to recover the mud. This well was "done" which is why they were doing it. I'm not criticizing what they did, only that it was the timing of things happening. Any one isolated thing happening in the process wouldn't have caused a catastrophe. But, six things together.... and boom.

People are just mad. I'm ok with that. I'm not arguing whether they should be. Just being knee jerk and bitching for the sake of it all should be something I'm used to, huh?

After all, I should be "glad" this is going down. Or so I was told by someone that it will make my husband's job safer. I would be, except I was told that by several people who have no idea what he does, what happened here, what goes on, where he is, blah blah blah.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html

[azoomm]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html
And?

[Papa_Complex]

And?

and...


http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25238/page1/

[Papa_Complex]

... and ...

http://blogs.ft.com/energy-source/2010/05/12/bp-oil-spill-house-hearings-live-blogging/

[KSGregman]

“There was oil industry boosterism that minimised potential hazards. There was a boosterism on the part of the previous [Bush] administration that got rid of protections that they viewed as obstacles to increased drilling. Now we see the results: boosterism led to complacency. And complacency led to disaster. And this is a disaster.”

~ Ed Markey, chairman of the energy and the environment subcommittee

Tough to argue with this assessment.

[azoomm]

Please keep posting online articles, it kills time while I'm out running around.

[OneSickPsycho]

“There was oil industry boosterism that minimised potential hazards. There was a boosterism on the part of the previous [Bush] administration that got rid of protections that they viewed as obstacles to increased drilling. Now we see the results: boosterism led to complacency. And complacency led to disaster. And this is a disaster.”

~ Ed Markey, chairman of the energy and the environment subcommittee

Tough to argue with this assessment.

Blame Bush.

[Papa_Complex]

Please keep posting online articles, it kills time while I'm out running around.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/05/bp_haliburton_transocean_execu.html

Blame Bush.

Blame an over eager profit motive, more like.

[OneSickPsycho]

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/05/bp_haliburton_transocean_execu.html



Blame an over eager profit motive, more like.

Right... Blame the motherfuckers who made shitty decisions all along the way, the guys who's pockets got lined and the fuckers who authorized the cutting of corners... Put the blame where the blame is due...

[Homeslice]

Right... Blame the motherfuckers who made shitty decisions all along the way, the guys who's pockets got lined and the fuckers who authorized the cutting of corners... Put the blame where the blame is due...

And blame the laissez-faire attitude towards regulation adopted by Republicans. Most of whom's main concern in life is "Hey, I'm worth a bit of money, I should do anything I possibly can to protect that"

Bush was just a fuckup all-around, it never ceases to amaze me how many people still deny that. I could care less how "get-er-done" he was, he was still the worst president this country has ever had. Instead of admitting his faults, conservatives would rather say "Well you blamed Bush for everything, so now we're going to blame Obama for everything, ha ha ha"

[Papa_Complex]

Right... Blame the motherfuckers who made shitty decisions all along the way, the guys who's pockets got lined and the fuckers who authorized the cutting of corners... Put the blame where the blame is due...

Liberals tend to over-regulate. Conservatives like to give the impression of being "law & order", but fail to provide adequate funding to actually enforce regulations. Of the two, I think that over-regulation is preferable to complete failure.

[goof2]

Right... Blame the motherfuckers who made shitty decisions all along the way, the guys who's pockets got lined and the fuckers who authorized the cutting of corners... Put the blame where the blame is due...

I'm fine with that too. What I don't like is shutting the entire deepwater drilling industry down based on a single incident others in the industry had nothing to do with.

[goof2]

And blame the laissez-faire attitude towards regulation adopted by Republicans. Most of whom's main concern in life is "Hey, I'm worth a bit of money, I should do anything I possibly can to protect that"

Bush was just a fuckup all-around, it never ceases to amaze me how many people still deny that. I could care less how "get-er-done" he was, he was still the worst president this country has ever had. Instead of admitting his faults, conservatives would rather say "Well you blamed Bush for everything, so now we're going to blame Obama for everything, ha ha ha"

Do you know what regulations were changed under Bush that pertain to this incident?

[OneSickPsycho]

And blame the laissez-faire attitude towards regulation adopted by Republicans. Most of whom's main concern in life is "Hey, I'm worth a bit of money, I should do anything I possibly can to protect that"

Bush was just a fuckup all-around, it never ceases to amaze me how many people still deny that. I could care less how "get-er-done" he was, he was still the worst president this country has ever had. Instead of admitting his faults, conservatives would rather say "Well you blamed Bush for everything, so now we're going to blame Obama for everything, ha ha ha"

I'm not a fan of Bush, but he gets credit for WAAAAAAYYYY more than what he had real impacts on... Someone farted in an elevator one time and that was Bush's fault too. Still don't consider him to be the worst ever... just the worst recently.

Liberals tend to over-regulate. Conservatives like to give the impression of being "law & order", but fail to provide adequate funding to actually enforce regulations. Of the two, I think that over-regulation is preferable to complete failure.

Easy to say for this situation... However, there's no evidence saying that this couldn't have happened under Obama's watch... I mean, what has he changed that would have prevented it?

Do you know what regulations were changed under Bush that pertain to this incident?

Doesn't matter... everything shitty that happened from 2001-present is Bush's fault.

[Papa_Complex]

Easy to say for this situation... However, there's no evidence saying that this couldn't have happened under Obama's watch... I mean, what has he changed that would have prevented it?

Hard to say, given that the economy took a dump when he was stepping up. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Remember, during the Bush regime people were blaming Clinton and Carter(!) for how the banking system fell apart.

[OneSickPsycho]

Hard to say, given that the economy took a dump when he was stepping up. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Remember, during the Bush regime people were blaming Clinton and Carter(!) for how the banking system fell apart.

Well technically Carter and Clinton did create/amend the legislation that allowed it to happen, but they are not fully to blame. There is PLENTY of blame to go around... Bushy and Congress on both sides share it...

[goof2]

I'm not a fan of Bush, but he gets credit for WAAAAAAYYYY more than what he had real impacts on... Someone farted in an elevator one time and that was Bush's fault too. Still don't consider him to be the worst ever... just the worst recently.

I agree.

Easy to say for this situation... However, there's no evidence saying that this couldn't have happened under Obama's watch... I mean, what has he changed that would have prevented it?

I agree with this also. In fact approval to drill this particular site was issued under the Obama administration, though it was very early on. Still, I don't know of any major changes in drilling regulations since Obama has been in office. The only differences I heard between Bush's and Obama's offshore oil plans were ones of geography, not regulation. Regardless, I don't blame Obama for this oil spill.

Doesn't matter... everything shitty that happened from 2001-present is Bush's fault.

I know, and there are plenty of things he does deserve blame for. I just think it is funny that apparently absolutely nothing happened before he took office, and there was no one else in government while he was in office.:lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

I know, and there are plenty of things he does deserve blame for. I just think it is funny that apparently absolutely nothing happened before he took office, and there was no one else in government while he was in office.:lol:

No shit right? I think it clouds the issue of his true fuckups...

[Papa_Complex]

Well technically Carter and Clinton did create/amend the legislation that allowed it to happen, but they are not fully to blame. There is PLENTY of blame to go around... Bushy and Congress on both sides share it...

And others also amended, or failed to correct, then later claimed that it was someone else's fault. Yup, the blame goes all the way 'round.

[Homeslice]

Do you know what regulations were changed under Bush that pertain to this incident?

No regulations need to be changed in order for change to occur. The "right" people simply need to be appointed (those whose political philosophy aligns with the President), and you'll get change alright.

[goof2]

No regulations need to be changed in order for change to occur. The "right" people simply need to be appointed (those whose political philosophy aligns with the President), and you'll get change alright.

The Minerals Management Service was screwed up before Bush took office, was screwed up while Bush was in office, and has been screwed up since Obama took office. There wasn't much change at all.:shrug:

[OneSickPsycho]

No regulations need to be changed in order for change to occur. The "right" people simply need to be appointed (those whose political philosophy aligns with the President), and you'll get change alright.

Weak sauce... like salsa consisting of only tomato paste... WEAK.

[Dave]

The government is playing it safe.
It would rather risk fucking over the "industry" then fuck over "people".
Once they get the information they need and put together the fancy reports saying "Iz okay" the ban will be lifted.

That shit will go away like "emergency" taxes :lmao: