Q for divorced parents

[Captain Morgan]

I'd like to get an idea of how many of you have liberal parenting schedules. Specifically, do the fathers get to keep their children overnight at all during the weeks when the kids are in school?

My daughter is 5 and starts kindergarten this year. I've always had her overnight when I have her, including during the week, and it's been very close to equal time. Her mom and I have never been married and my daughter has never known us being together. Currently, I don't have anything in writing or any court order, but her mom has always let me have my daughter as much as possible.

She recently found out I have a girlfriend and has gone apeshit. Apparently, she always thought I'd "come around" and decide to be with her. Now she's trying to use school as an excuse to say that I can't have my daughter overnight as much as I have been. However, I have several e-mails where she's shown a tendancy to be unreasonable, including one where she says, "You know, I do blame you for things. Like, Allie not having one home and maybe I do want to punish you a bit for that." I'm hoping that comment is all I need for a judge to see the truth behind my ex's actions. I've always had my daughter overnight when I've had her, it shouldn't change now.

I've already filed a petition with the courts, but no date has been set, as there is a backlog. School starts in less than a month and I'm afraid I'm going to be screwed until court because my ex is insisting that my daughter will not be allowed to stay overnight at my house during the week. I'm calling my attorney tomorrow to find out what I should do if my daughter's mom tries to pick her up from my house on nights I'd normally have her.

At any rate, I'd just like to know if any fathers have their children overnight during the school week. I live 1.5 miles away from my daughter's school, so distance obviously isn't an issue.

[TommyHotWheel]

I have been in that situation and know alot of parents in the same(except all were married). In the area I am from if you are within a certain distance from each other or the school and you have joint custody, the kids stay on school nights. I have never known parents who live close to not have kids on school nights unless they agree not to. Is your child service tied in to the court or separate? In Michigan it is seperate until there are legal issues like one parent wont allow parenting time or child support has stopped, this could speed it up and if you dont have a written agreement or court order for parenting time and responsibilities....now seems like a good time to get it in writing.

[Amber Lamps]

That sucks Avery... BTW I disagree with THW, the time to "get it in writing" was shortly after you broke up... I'm sorry but I don't understand why guys consistently wait until AFTER the woman starts giving them problems to get the custody issues worked out. I have seen this so many times with my friends that I could write a very extensive second hand book about it. The new girlfriend is almost always the catalyst for this type of childish behavior from the mother and it never ceases to sicken me how they'll use the child as a weapon. The most amazing thing for me is that with the number of men out there who have very little or nothing to do with their children, you'd think the "lucky few" women who have men who actually care about their children would be happy... not the case.

Bro, just try to remain calm, don't say or do anything that she can use against you later. Let her have her way for the next few weeks and tough it out. Don't let yourself be sucked into some crazy battle where the real loser will be your daughter. I may not have any kids but I've been in your daughter's position and it can really suck! If you have an Android phone there are several applications that allow you to record your conversations, get one and keep tabs on what she says to you when you request time to see your daughter...again please remain calm. I know that your little girl is by far the most important thing in your life but a few weeks without having her overnight won't kill either of you. ;) Good luck man!

[Kaneman]

I second recording your phone calls, but the catch is that you do have to let her know. Simply open up every call with, "This call may be recorded or monitored for quality assurance." :lol:

Sorry bro, women get evil at times like this, cover yourself.

[skiergirl]

Check your state laws on recording before you do it. In some states only 1 party has to know it's being recorded and that 1 party can be YOU. She may not even have to know which makes it better.

That sucks she's doing all this but without any formal custody papers usually it's considered joint custody and who ever has the kid at the time has them. If she won't give her to you then you can't take her. Same goes for when you have her....there probably isn't much anyone but a lawyer and the courts can do for you now. Do your best to be the reasonable, civil one even when she's being a psycho and no matter how shitty she is to you never mention any of it around your daughter.

Best of luck to you!

[Amber Lamps]

Check your state laws on recording before you do it. In some states only 1 party has to know it's being recorded and that 1 party can be YOU. She may not even have to know which makes it better.

That sucks she's doing all this but without any formal custody papers usually it's considered joint custody and who ever has the kid at the time has them. If she won't give her to you then you can't take her. Same goes for when you have her....there probably isn't much anyone but a lawyer and the courts can do for you now. Do your best to be the reasonable, civil one even when she's being a psycho and no matter how shitty she is to you never mention any of it around your daughter.

Best of luck to you!

I agree, check with your lawyer. In my limited second hand experience proof goes a long way in these cases. FWIW these applications do have provisions for just recording YOUR side of the conversation which will at least prove that you DIDN'T say something you may be accused of later.

[Captain Morgan]

Thanks all. Yes, the time to take care of things was back when we split up. I know that now, but can't go back in time so the time to do it is now. I am trying to be civil, but it's extremely difficult with all the crap she pulls. I also do my best to communicate with her via e-mail, so everything is in writing and I don't have to worry about the laws regarding phone call recording. She puts a lot of stuff in writing that can damage her case, so hopefully the e-mails will help. If she insists on keeping me from having my daughter overnight, I'll see if the attorney can push for the case to be moved up.

I also do my damndest never to bring things up around my daughter. But it really pisses me off to hear things like, "Mommy says that you're trying to make Sarah my new mommy." Or "Mommy says that if I see Sarah, I'm supposed to scream and run away." Or even this stupid lack of logic from her right after she claims she's doing what's best for my daughter, "You have the ability to have more children. I'll never have any more. Allie is the only child I'll ever have. Since you can have more, I should be able to have Allie more than you do."

And I'm pretty sure Indiana is "one party knowledge" when it comes to recording phone calls.

[Amber Lamps]

Thanks all. Yes, the time to take care of things was back when we split up. I know that now, but can't go back in time so the time to do it is now. I am trying to be civil, but it's extremely difficult with all the crap she pulls. I also do my best to communicate with her via e-mail, so everything is in writing and I don't have to worry about the laws regarding phone call recording. She puts a lot of stuff in writing that can damage her case, so hopefully the e-mails will help. If she insists on keeping me from having my daughter overnight, I'll see if the attorney can push for the case to be moved up.

And I'm pretty sure Indiana is "one party knowledge" when it comes to recording phone calls.

Good! I know that it is hard but I also know that you love your daughter and for that reason you have to bite your tongue and keep your head. Please don't make this about "not letting that bitch have her way"... what's the big deal about having your daughter overnight? Pick your daughter up and drop her off when the mother wants you to and bide your time. Don't be angry bro, that's what she wants. Heck, when you drop your daughter off, let it "slip" that since you have the evening free, you're taking your gf out to dinner, have to get to Blockbuster to pick up the movie she wants to see or whatever... ;) Man, NOTHING infuriates a woman more than a man that won't fight with her!!!

[skiergirl]

Good! I know that it is hard but I also know that you love your daughter and for that reason you have to bite your tongue and keep your head. Please don't make this about "not letting that bitch have her way"... what's the big deal about having your daughter overnight? Pick your daughter up and drop her off when the mother wants you to and bide your time. Don't be angry bro, that's what she wants. Heck, when you drop your daughter off, let it "slip" that since you have the evening free, you're taking your gf out to dinner, have to get to Blockbuster to pick up the movie she wants to see or whatever... ;) Man, NOTHING infuriates a woman more than a man that won't fight with her!!!

as much as I hate to agree with this, it is completely true. NOT getting angry is the best punishment ever! It drives women nuts! If she thinks it's working out for you to drop her off before bed, she'll probably stop demanding it thinking if you have your daughter then your 'date' time is ruined and she wins. For her to say those things to your daughter is just unbelievable to me. What is wrong with people?

[Captain Morgan]

Good! I know that it is hard but I also know that you love your daughter and for that reason you have to bite your tongue and keep your head. Please don't make this about "not letting that bitch have her way"... what's the big deal about having your daughter overnight? Pick your daughter up and drop her off when the mother wants you to and bide your time. Don't be angry bro, that's what she wants. Heck, when you drop your daughter off, let it "slip" that since you have the evening free, you're taking your gf out to dinner, have to get to Blockbuster to pick up the movie she wants to see or whatever... ;) Man, NOTHING infuriates a woman more than a man that won't fight with her!!!

It's about being a good father and having a good relationship with her. I grew up in a split household, with a very similar arrangement to what my ex wants. I don't have a good relationship with my father. Whenever at his house, it was always just "play time." I feel that if I have my daughter overnight, she'll grow up to know that I took care of her, rather than just having play time with her. By having her overnight, I get to have her take a bath, brush her teeth, and go to bed. I get to read her stories in bed. I get to get her ready in the morning and take her to school. I get to be a parent.

as much as I hate to agree with this, it is completely true. NOT getting angry is the best punishment ever! It drives women nuts! If she thinks it's working out for you to drop her off before bed, she'll probably stop demanding it thinking if you have your daughter then your 'date' time is ruined and she wins. For her to say those things to your daughter is just unbelievable to me. What is wrong with people?

I'll have to keep that in mind, but also don't want to do anything that she could take to court, claiming that I'm happy not to have my daughter overnights. If she's able to claim that, and use my lack of arguing, or my happiness to have more time with the g/f, as support for her case, the judge might side with her.

['73 H1 Triple]

And I'm pretty sure Indiana is "one party knowledge" when it comes to recording phone calls.

:iagree:

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm

State Laws (Table)
While the U.S. federal law only requires one-party consent, many states have accepted different laws. In some states all parties must give their consent or at least be notified that the call is about to be recorded (with necessary opt-out option: if you don’t like them to record the call, you can ask them to stop recording). There also was a case law decision from many years ago (the 1950's) that went to the Supreme Court and affirmed that the federal law does not supersede state authority/statutes unless the call or the tap crosses state lines – that is why each state went ahead and established their own guideline/statute.

States Requiring One Party Notification
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
District Of Columbia
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky Louisiana
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
Nevada
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma Oregon
Ohio
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming


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Good luck, { removed "darling" ex comments }

Jeff

[CrazyKell]

Lots of great advice in this thread.

Like others, it sickens me to see parent's use a child this way.

My only piece of advice, other than following other's advice and recording or getting everything in writing, is to TAKE NOTES. Take notes on everything. It may be useful down the line.

[Twobanger]

Opposite custodial situation to the OP, but I let my ex-wife keep my son overnight a couple of days a week during the school year. My daughter will only go there because she has to every other weekend.

[Amber Lamps]

Lots of great advice in this thread.

Like others, it sickens me to see parent's use a child this way.

My only piece of advice, other than following other's advice and recording or getting everything in writing, is to TAKE NOTES. Take notes on everything. It may be useful down the line.

Yep! I meant to comment further on this because it seemed as if he took an extreme view of my statements.

I never meant to imply that you "forget" about your daughter or act as if you don't care... Is that the only other response to this situation? I fully expect you to request your daughter overnight, please do so in writing, record it or at least note it when you do, but I'm asking you not to get angry when she says no. I'm asking you not to sink to her level...

You, "Hey is it okay if I keep "Muffin" overnight and take her to school tomorrow?"

Bitch, "No! I don't think it's a good idea for her to be over there all night when you have that whore there!"

You, "Oh... well... I'm disappointed but I guess I'll drop "Muffin" off on the way to take " GF" to that new restaurant downtown.", "Let me know if you change your mind, thanks"

Give her a few weeks of this and I promise you she'll be "forcing" you to take your little girl. Women aren't nearly as "mysterious" as they think they are. Many, not all, are petty, childish, trifling little cunts that are very easy to manipulate if you can keep your head. The only reason that she doesn't want you to have your daughter overnight is that you've made it important to you. If you had NOT wanted to keep your little girl over night (like most of these part time "fathers"), she would be trying to cram the child down your throat every other night. I've seen it 1,000 times minimum.

BTW I understand how important this is to you but I think that you are being a bit paranoid regarding the court. You are giving them WAY too much credit. I'm not saying go crazy or anything but I doubt that they are going to microscopically examine every little thing you do.They'll probably split up custody the same way they always do barring any psycho shenanigans from you or the ex.:idk: Quite frankly, this is very important to you but to them it's just another of the thousands of custody cases to get through...:sorry:

[Captain Morgan]

Yep! I meant to comment further on this because it seemed as if he took an extreme view of my statements.

I never meant to imply that you "forget" about your daughter or act as if you don't care... Is that the only other response to this situation? I fully expect you to request your daughter overnight, please do so in writing, record it or at least note it when you do, but I'm asking you not to get angry when she says no. I'm asking you not to sink to her level...

You, "Hey is it okay if I keep "Muffin" overnight and take her to school tomorrow?"

Bitch, "No! I don't think it's a good idea for her to be over there all night when you have that whore there!"

You, "Oh... well... I'm disappointed but I guess I'll drop "Muffin" off on the way to take " GF" to that new restaurant downtown.", "Let me know if you change your mind, thanks"

Give her a few weeks of this and I promise you she'll be "forcing" you to take your little girl. Women aren't nearly as "mysterious" as they think they are. Many, not all, are petty, childish, trifling little cunts that are very easy to manipulate if you can keep your head. The only reason that she doesn't want you to have your daughter overnight is that you've made it important to you. If you had NOT wanted to keep your little girl over night (like most of these part time "fathers"), she would be trying to cram the child down your throat every other night. I've seen it 1,000 times minimum.

BTW I understand how important this is to you but I think that you are being a bit paranoid regarding the court. You are giving them WAY too much credit. I'm not saying go crazy or anything but I doubt that they are going to microscopically examine every little thing you do.They'll probably split up custody the same way they always do barring any psycho shenanigans from you or the ex.:idk: Quite frankly, this is very important to you but to them it's just another of the thousands of custody cases to get through...:sorry:

Cool. Yeah, I did interpret your comments on the extreme side, but like your example above. May have to try that.

Bitch went psycho tonight after I took Allie to a free TaeKwonDo lesson that I signed her up for two weeks ago. I told her about it last night after Allie talked to her and was told that SHE wanted Allie to be in Girl Scouts and do tumbling, and that 3 activities is too much. Whatever, I took her anyway, it's my night to have my daughter so her bitch of a mother can kiss my ass. They were running a special (not surprised) where you get 3 lessons and the garb for $50. So I bought a package for me and one for my daughter. Naturally, I got bitched at tonight and told that Allie can't do that because her mom wants her to do other things. Again, I just said ok, have a good night. Still going to take her to the class, her mom can just eat a dick.

[Amber Lamps]

Cool. Yeah, I did interpret your comments on the extreme side, but like your example above. May have to try that.

Bitch went psycho tonight after I took Allie to a free TaeKwonDo lesson that I signed her up for two weeks ago. I told her about it last night after Allie talked to her and was told that SHE wanted Allie to be in Girl Scouts and do tumbling, and that 3 activities is too much. Whatever, I took her anyway, it's my night to have my daughter so her bitch of a mother can kiss my ass. They were running a special (not surprised) where you get 3 lessons and the garb for $50. So I bought a package for me and one for my daughter. Naturally, I got bitched at tonight and told that Allie can't do that because her mom wants her to do other things. Again, I just said ok, have a good night. Still going to take her to the class, her mom can just eat a dick.

See there you go... don't argue with this chick. Good job!

[azoomm]

See there you go... don't argue with this chick. Good job!

I agree. Completely.

[Kaneman]

See there you go... don't argue with this chick. Good job!



I agree. Completely.

And that's how friendships are born.

[sherri_chickie]

It will drive her nuts! I love it. Great advice from people here as they are so right.

[Captain Morgan]

Met with my attorney yesterday. The court date can't be moved up, I just have to wait. Her attorney hasn't returned any phone calls and mine says he works some cases on a "flat-fee" and that he doesn't give much attention to those cases. It's also possible she hasn't paid her attorney yet.

I also found out a likely reason for her to try to keep me from having my daughter overnight. Child support is based on the number of "overnights" you have the child in a year. The fewer nights I have my daughter, the more she gets in support. What's absolutely stupid is that I could have my daughter ALL day long, but if she spends that night at her mom's house, I effectively have to pay support for that day.

I've never had any set child support. She always said she only wanted me to pay for daycare, which I've always done.

My attorney seems to think she won't win, but says the judge is inconsistent in her rulings. He doesn't seem to think she will be in this case because there is an established schedule that has been in place for some time and the judge won't want to disrupt things.

I can only wait and see.

[Amber Lamps]

Met with my attorney yesterday. The court date can't be moved up, I just have to wait. Her attorney hasn't returned any phone calls and mine says he works some cases on a "flat-fee" and that he doesn't give much attention to those cases. It's also possible she hasn't paid her attorney yet.

I also found out a likely reason for her to try to keep me from having my daughter overnight. Child support is based on the number of "overnights" you have the child in a year. The fewer nights I have my daughter, the more she gets in support. What's absolutely stupid is that I could have my daughter ALL day long, but if she spends that night at her mom's house, I effectively have to pay support for that day.

I've never had any set child support. She always said she only wanted me to pay for daycare, which I've always done.

My attorney seems to think she won't win, but says the judge is inconsistent in her rulings. He doesn't seem to think she will be in this case because there is an established schedule that has been in place for some time and the judge won't want to disrupt things.

I can only wait and see.

Good luck bro!!!

[TommyHotWheel]

Take any proof of scheduled events or any documentation of ongoing happenings or any proof that she spends nights or extended time with you. If you have corroboration it will help. Have teachers, therapists, friends, parents, grandparents, neighbors, instructors, waitors any one that will prove any ongoing overnight visitation. Documentation is your new best friend. Words hurt, but words backed up in court and notarized are better than unobtainium.

[CrazyKell]

Good luck.

It's so frustrating that your life (and your daughter's) is hanging in the balance of a possibly random ruling by a judge.

I've never been in this situation, but have watched friends go through it. I can't believe how frustrating it can be from all sides.