ET's/Aliens yes or no?

[Inferno]

Are they out there?

[EpyonXero]

Yes

[Avatard]

Consider the vastness. It would be naive to think we're the only form of life in such a vast universe...the odds are against it.

Are we the most advanced life form? Maybe..but that, in and of itself, is perhaps the scariest possibility...fuck, I hope not.

[LeeNetworX]

Yes.

Be prepared.


http://www.leenetworx.com/AlienContact.png

[VatorMan]

Yep.

http://dianelent.com/mar06nola/mexicans.jpg

[derf]

That was an awesome read, and very much true too

[EpyonXero]

Yes.

Be prepared.




Following that advice will make you look like an idiot. If the aliens are here and they are as smart as we think they are Im pretty sure they already know that we understand trigonometry and that we know that were on the third planet from the sun considering our planet is surrounded by thousands of satellites and we have tons of man made RF waves being beamed out. Also, that last drawing of the flying saucer makes it look like we want them to conquer us.

[Particle Man]

That was awesome :lol:

Original topic question: yes. I think it's presumptuous to believe that in the entire Universe we're the only "intelligent" species

[pauldun170]

Infinite civizilizations separated by time and distance.

[Dave]

I hope yes, hostile invasion may be the only thing that can get humans to understand our true nature and get our shit together.

[z06boy]

I hope yes, hostile invasion may be the only thing that can get humans to understand our true nature and get our shit together.

That was awesome :lol:

Original topic question: yes. I think it's presumptuous to believe that in the entire Universe we're the only "intelligent" species

Consider the vastness. It would be naive to think we're the only form of life in such a vast universe...the odds are against it.



All of the above

[Homeslice]

The large governments would always conspire to keep it secret, if they knew about it.

[CrazyKell]

yes

[Trip]

I don't think it will matter in our life time. We will die without knowing.

[KSGregman]

Yes. But honestly, I don't think that is even the most interesting or relevant question. A more interesting question is what have we forgotten about ourselves as a species? It seems that we have collective amnesia as a species....what we DON'T know about ourselves....where we came from...what we might already have accomplished along the way and forgotten about is far more interesting to me.

The evidence of things being done that are beyond current ability to explain and or reproduce are scattered all over the world. Megalithic building for example...Puma Punku in Boliva...The Pyramids at Giza...Ba'Albek in Lebanon. These structures would be difficult to reproduce using modern tools and machines...and yet, there they stand...Ba'Albek is particularly difficult to explain. How do you move 3 stones that weigh 800 tons a piece a half mile from where they were quarried and then place them onto a wall 20 feet off the ground? The quarry where these megalithic stones were taken contain two additional stones estimated to be over 1,000 tons each still sitting there. The stones at Puma Punku are diocite....extremely durable material...and yet virtually every stone has been "machined" to a high degree...the stones fit together perfectly...like legos. How was it done? How do you "machine" a stone like granite....or diocite...with the tools we ASSUME those people had available at the time we THINK these places were built?

Where did the technical know how required to move objects that large go? Where did the tools required to "machine" stones of that hardness go? Apparently, we had the required technical expertise and tools at one time as the structures are there....you can see them with you own eyes. It's the HOW that has been lost and to me that is more interesting than any "ET."

[Trip]

Yes. But honestly, I don't think that is even the most interesting or relevant question. A more interesting question is what have we forgotten about ourselves as a species? It seems that we have collective amnesia as a species....what we DON'T know about ourselves....where we came from...what we might already have accomplished along the way and forgotten about is far more interesting to me.

The evidence of things being done that are beyond current ability to explain and or reproduce are scattered all over the world. Megalithic building for example...Puma Punku in Boliva...The Pyramids at Giza...Ba'Albek in Lebanon. These structures would be difficult to reproduce using modern tools and machines...and yet, there they stand...Ba'Albek is particularly difficult to explain. How do you move 3 stones that weigh 800 tons a piece a half mile from where they were quarried and then place them onto a wall 20 feet off the ground? The quarry where these megalithic stones were taken contain two additional stones estimated to be over 1,000 tons each still sitting there. The stones at Puma Punku are diocite....extremely durable material...and yet virtually every stone has been "machined" to a high degree...the stones fit together perfectly...like legos. How was it done? How do you "machine" a stone like granite....or diocite...with the tools we ASSUME those people had available at the time we THINK these places were built?

Where did the technical know how required to move objects that large go? Where did the tools required to "machine" stones of that hardness go? Apparently, we had the required technical expertise and tools at one time as the structures are there....you can see them with you own eyes. It's the HOW that has been lost and to me that is more interesting than any "ET."

Is Puma Punku the site with the perfect square cuts into the stones that are amazingly accurate?

[AquaPython]

i have about 10 pages left in Chariots of the gods, did you copy and paste that directly?

it is the best book i have ever read. HIGHLY fucking suggest it.

[KSGregman]

Is Puma Punku the site with the perfect square cuts into the stones that are amazingly accurate?


Yes.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/KSGregman/Puma1.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/KSGregman/Puma3.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/KSGregman/Puma2.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/KSGregman/Puma4.jpg

That stone with the vertical line and bore holes boggles my mind. The stone is diocite...the only material on earth harder than diocite is diamond. How did they machine that stone? The line is of uniform width and depth..and is perfectly straight. The bore holes are equidistant and are of uniform diameter and depth. HOW?!

[Trip]

That stone with the vertical line and bore holes boggles my mind. The stone is diocite...the only material on earth harder than diocite is diamond. How did they machine that stone? The line is of uniform width and depth..and is perfectly straight. The bore holes are equidistant and are of uniform diameter and depth. HOW?!

Yeah I remember seeing that shit, how in the fuck they did that is no fucking joke.

[LeeNetworX]

That stone with the vertical line and bore holes boggles my mind. The stone is diocite...the only material on earth harder than diocite is diamond. How did they machine that stone? The line is of uniform width and depth..and is perfectly straight. The bore holes are equidistant and are of uniform diameter and depth. HOW?!

I'm betting they had tools made of gorilla glass.

[OneSickPsycho]

Consider the vastness. It would be naive to think we're the only form of life in such a vast universe...the odds are against it.

Are we the most advanced life form? Maybe..but that, in and of itself, is perhaps the scariest possibility...fuck, I hope not.

Consider the vastness... the odds are against it...

Hmm... I dunno... I think the odds are well against life being created by a the random mixing of gasses and whatnot, then evolving into highly intelligent life... For it to happen more than once... the odds are well beyond comprehension.

Now if there was intelligent design, I'd say there would be much greater odds that there are other forms of life out there...

I've always found this interesting... creationists always say without a doubt that there is nothing else out there... evolutionists are inclined to say otherwise. However, the probablity is completely backwards from both groups' perspective.

[AquaPython]

Consider the vastness... the odds are against it...

Hmm... I dunno... I think the odds are well against life being created by a the random mixing of gasses and whatnot, then evolving into highly intelligent life... For it to happen more than once... the odds are well beyond comprehension.

Now if there was intelligent design, I'd say there would be much greater odds that there are other forms of life out there...

I've always found this interesting... creationists always say without a doubt that there is nothing else out there... evolutionists are inclined to say otherwise. However, the probablity is completely backwards from both groups' perspective.

not really
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/4/7/847914dec26cc45ac2957da0054683de.png

[Homeslice]

i have about 10 pages left in Chariots of the gods, did you copy and paste that directly?

it is the best book i have ever read. HIGHLY fucking suggest it.

Quite an old book, and there are several sites that debunk its claims....

I don't dismiss the idea that we may have originated on another world (maybe even Mars) before coming here, or maybe received some "assistance" from aliens........But I'm not ready to believe in it just because of some pyramids and lines on the ground.

[AquaPython]

Quite an old book, and there are several sites that debunk its claims....

I don't dismiss the idea that we may have originated on another world (maybe even Mars) before coming here, or maybe received some "assistance" from aliens........But I'm not ready to believe in it just because of some pyramids and lines on the ground.

yes it is an old book, but it is just as ground breaking now as it was 30 years ago. it has gotten popular again with recent discoveries further backing his questions (questions NOT claims).

in fact there is a whole mini series of the History Channel called Ancient Aliens that backs up most of it, and other similar claims and authors.

the book does not postulate "just because the pyramids exist...."
I highly suggest reading it before guessing about something you have not read, based on others opinions.

[azoomm]

God says no, he created life here in his image.

Sorry, no religion allowed. Move along.

I think to believe WE are not only the most intelligent life in the universe but the ONLY life in the universe is incredibly arrogant and unlikely.

[OneSickPsycho]

God says no, he created life here in his image.

Sorry, no religion allowed. Move along.

I think to believe WE are not only the most intelligent life in the universe but the ONLY life in the universe is incredibly arrogant and unlikely.

That's saying that the [insert religion book here] is correct. Intelligent design doesn't have to be the [insert religion here] god...

Again, it's a matter of odds. Beyond intelligent design, what are the odds of life spontaneously being created naturally? Once you figure out that number (which would probably take you thousands of years to type out), then what are the odds of that occurring more than once?

[Trip]

That's saying that the [insert religion book here] is correct. Intelligent design doesn't have to be the [insert religion here] god...

Again, it's a matter of odds. Beyond intelligent design, what are the odds of life spontaneously being created naturally? Once you figure out that number (which would probably take you thousands of years to type out), then what are the odds of that occurring more than once?

Intelligent design doesn't have to even be a God. It could be some gigantic scientist that has us in his petri dish.

[Homeslice]

in fact there is a whole mini series of the History Channel called Ancient Aliens that backs up most of it, and other similar claims and authors.

the book does not postulate "just because the pyramids exist...."
I highly suggest reading it before guessing about something you have not read, based on others opinions.

LOL so a History Channel show backs it up? That really builds my confidence.

And what makes you think I didn't read it? I read it when I was a teenager and much more gullible, lol.

[KSGregman]

I'm betting they had tools made of douchebag.


I saw what you did there. :lol:

[AquaPython]

That's saying that the [insert religion book here] is correct. Intelligent design doesn't have to be the [insert religion here] god...

Again, it's a matter of odds. Beyond intelligent design, what are the odds of life spontaneously being created naturally? Once you figure out that number (which would probably take you thousands of years to type out), then what are the odds of that occurring more than once?

ok i will try again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

[AquaPython]

LOL so a History Channel show backs it up? That really builds my confidence.

And what makes you think I didn't read it? I read it when I was a teenager and much more gullible, lol.

not just the history channel, but lots of new findings and other publications is the point, and why it is current again.

it appeared from your context and knowledge about the reasoning you have no idea what the book was about.

[EpyonXero]

not really
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/4/7/847914dec26cc45ac2957da0054683de.png

I used that equation to find out how many women there were in my county that Id likely be interested in dating, only about 600... This place sucks.

[Trip]

ok i will try again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

Which is a useless equation filled with unknowns that can only be based on ourselves.

I also agree with the wiki article, if you multiply a bunch of shit together, it will look like a favorable number.

[AquaPython]

Which is a useless equation filled with unknowns that can only be based on ourselves.

I also agree with the wiki article, if you multiply a bunch of shit together, it will look like a favorable number.

yes and no.

obviously if we had the ability to fill in the variables, we would know the answer, wouldn't we.

One reply to such criticisms is that even though the Drake equation currently involves speculation about unmeasured parameters, it was not meant to be science, but intended as a way to stimulate dialog on these topics. Then the focus becomes how to proceed experimentally. Indeed, Drake originally formulated the equation merely as an agenda for discussion at the Green Bank conference

[Amber Lamps]

Extremely unlikely that we are the only intelligent life. We are definitely not the most advanced considering the relative ages of the different galaxies...we are babies by comparison. I've often postulated that as life forms evolve they actually take on "godlike" tendencies... consider, if one of us were to go back in time 100,000 years or whatever. We would seem quite godlike to the people there. I believe that it is possible to evolve into an almost pure conscious state and be able to directly affect matter and energy through force of will alone. Which would make you a "God" by our current sensibilities. Perhaps "Gods" are merely hyper-evolved beings that have migrated outward from the center of the universe since the big bang that help catalyze the formation of life/intelligent life in other galaxies like seeds floating down from a tree. Perhaps "we" might even be the "God's" new life cycle and in each of us is a minute piece of his consciousness/memories.

As far as how some ancient monument was built...they didn't have OSHA! j/k. It's called time and labor people. Mystery solved. Seriously, men have tunneled through concrete to escape from prison using a spoon. You put enough man hours/lives and time into a project and you can do anything. It took decades/lifetimes to build a pyramid. Oh and I can make a perfect square using a piece of string with 2 knots tied in it, big deal. The "general contractor" walked around with a bundle of cords that had all the measurements preset onto them. Ever heard the phrase, "measure twice, cut once"? How about "measure 1,000 times and cut slowly"...

[OneSickPsycho]

Intelligent design doesn't have to even be a God. It could be some gigantic scientist that has us in his petri dish.

Ahhh... the Men in Black theory...

yes and no.

obviously if we had the ability to fill in the variables, we would know the answer, wouldn't we.

Useless.

[Trip]

yes and no.

obviously if we had the ability to fill in the variables, we would know the answer, wouldn't we.

Well since we are already discussing it, we didn't need it to stimulate the discussion. It even states in that quote you posted, it's not scientific.

[Amber Lamps]

LOL so a History Channel show backs it up? That really builds my confidence.

And what makes you think I didn't read it? I read it when I was a teenager and much more gullible, lol.

I know right? Some other like minded goobers go out and "prove" his hypothesis... totally accurate! I've seen that show and to say that some of those "experts" are nut jobs would be an understatement.

He doesn't think you read it because you don't agree with him and aren't in a similar state of shock and awe....

[Amber Lamps]

Intelligent design doesn't have to even be a God. It could be some gigantic scientist that has us in his petri dish.

Who would be God from our perspective...

[Trip]

As far as how some ancient monument was built...they didn't have OSHA! j/k. It's called time and labor people. Mystery solved. Seriously, men have tunneled through concrete to escape from prison using a spoon. You put enough man hours/lives and time into a project and you can do anything. It took decades/lifetimes to build a pyramid. Oh and I can make a perfect square using a piece of string with 2 knots tied in it, big deal. The "general contractor" walked around with a bundle of cords that had all the measurements preset onto them. Ever heard the phrase, "measure twice, cut once"? How about "measure 1,000 times and cut slowly"...

:lol: I don't care if it was measure 1000x/cut slowly. It's still pretty damn impressive and our world took back steps from that type of quality before we moved forward. It's just impressive engineering without modern equipment.

[KSGregman]

As far as how some ancient monument was built...they didn't have OSHA! j/k. It's called time and labor people. Mystery solved.

I hear you...and to a degree, I don't disagree....but...HOW?! I have a shit ton of labor available. Fine. I have a lifetime to make it happen. Fine. How?!

At some point a tool touches stone. What tools touched those stones to make those perfect joints happen? I'm talking in specifics. What tool is capable of cutting diocite with such precision? What tools lifted 800 ton stones 20 feet into the air? These are the interesting questions to me and I don't think "throw labor at it and stay at it as long as it takes" is a fully acceptable answer. We as a species apparently had the know how and tools necessary to do these things at one point in time and they've largely been lost.

[AquaPython]

Extremely unlikely that we are the only intelligent life. We are definitely not the most advanced considering the relative ages of the different galaxies...we are babies by comparison. I've often postulated that as life forms evolve they actually take on "godlike" tendencies... consider, if one of us were to go back in time 100,000 years or whatever. We would seem quite godlike to the people there. I believe that it is possible to evolve into an almost pure conscious state and be able to directly affect matter and energy through force of will alone. Which would make you a "God" by our current sensibilities.

just so you know, almost this whole thing word for word is the first or second chapter in this 40 year old book.


It's called time and labor people. Mystery solved. Seriously, men have tunneled through concrete to escape from prison using a spoon. You put enough man hours/lives and time into a project and you can do anything. It took decades/lifetimes to build a pyramid. ...

thats a nice convenient answer, to a question not being asked.

[Amber Lamps]

:lol: I don't care if it was measure 1000x/cut slowly. It's still pretty damn impressive and our world took back steps from that type of quality before we moved forward. It's just impressive engineering without modern equipment.

Oh I agree that it is impressive, just not otherworldly. Oh and we "forgot" how to do it because all the engineers were murdered and buried with the Pharaohs once the job was complete...

I do agree on "lack of quality" in our buildings...ever work on a double wide or modular home? Wow! Heck, even stick houses wouldn't know a square corner if it bit them. When I was installing garage doors, it was routine for an opening to gain/lose an inch or better from plumb in just 7-8'...Pathetic!

[6doublefive321]

In the past few years, I have been more interested in alternate universes, not necessarily "alien" universes. I find it intriguing that there are infinite universes based on the decisions we make. Not mundane, everyday decisions, but significant events such as having children, accidents, inventions, etc. The Watchmen universe hits on this idea, but its been around for a long time.

I find it a cool mental exercise to imagine parallel or alternate universes and what they would be like. Philip K. Dick wrote a story in which the human brain was a filter, and blocked all but the one universe to the owner's perception. With a drug, the filter could be bypassed, and multiple, alternate universes could be transcended. Altered perceptions, now that's the ticket.

And, yes. Aliens are out there. However, if relativity holds, we will never have proof.

[Amber Lamps]

I hear you...and to a degree, I don't disagree....but...HOW?! I have a shit ton of labor available. Fine. I have a lifetime to make it happen. Fine. How?!

At some point a tool touches stone. What tools touched those stones to make those perfect joints happen? I'm talking in specifics. What tool is capable of cutting diocite with such precision? What tools lifted 800 ton stones 20 feet into the air? These are the interesting questions to me and I don't think "throw labor at it and stay at it as long as it takes" is a fully acceptable answer. We as a species apparently had the know how and tools necessary to do these things at one point in time and they've largely been lost.

Diocite isn't invulnerable... I have seen monuments in which the floors are made out of granite and paths have been worn into them by bare feet. What about a diamond attached to a rod? If it takes an hour to dig in a 1/4'' that is still progress. The only thing that makes those places a "mystery" and places like the Great Wall less mysterious is RECORD KEEPING or the lack there of. Everyone knows how the wall was built so no one is going around claiming "alien involvement" or ancient uber engineering concepts. Is not the great wall equally impressive? Gee, how'd they ever build it using non-modern techniques? LABOR and time.....

Build ramps out of dirt/sand....remove after structure is built, easy. I don't think that their super cool ways of doing things were "lost", I just think that we found easier, faster and less labor intensive ways to do things. Heck, how did we build a railroad across the country, through mountains and over gorges without "modern" equipment? Hmmmm? BTW it is estimated that over 200,000 people died during it's construction in this "modern" era...

[Amber Lamps]

just so you know, almost this whole thing word for word is the first or second chapter in this 40 year old book.



thats a nice convenient answer, to a question not being asked.

Never read it but if it's in a book, I must be right!!! w00t!


Oh and someone not as important as you was asking that question actually... I guess I should focus all of my responses on you but...:sorry:

[Amber Lamps]

In the past few years, I have been more interested in alternate universes, not necessarily "alien" universes. I find it intriguing that there are infinite universes based on the decisions we make. Not mundane, everyday decisions, but significant events such as having children, accidents, inventions, etc. The Watchmen universe hits on this idea, but its been around for a long time.

I find it a cool mental exercise to imagine parallel or alternate universes and what they would be like. Philip K. Dick wrote a story in which the human brain was a filter, and blocked all but the one universe to the owner's perception. With a drug, the filter could be bypassed, and multiple, alternate universes could be transcended. Altered perceptions, now that's the ticket.

And, yes. Aliens are out there. However, if relativity holds, we will never have proof.

Agreed....unless they have evolved past the need for a physical being and can alter space, matter, time, etc at will...:lol: Selling my theory...:lol:

[AquaPython]

i did not ask any question ? i don't think anyone asked "how could they be built" ? homeslice attempted to summarize COTG with it, unless i am mistaken (without going back through all of the posts. )

[Amber Lamps]

Yes. But honestly, I don't think that is even the most interesting or relevant question. A more interesting question is what have we forgotten about ourselves as a species? It seems that we have collective amnesia as a species....what we DON'T know about ourselves....where we came from...what we might already have accomplished along the way and forgotten about is far more interesting to me.

The evidence of things being done that are beyond current ability to explain and or reproduce are scattered all over the world. Megalithic building for example...Puma Punku in Boliva...The Pyramids at Giza...Ba'Albek in Lebanon. These structures would be difficult to reproduce using modern tools and machines...and yet, there they stand...Ba'Albek is particularly difficult to explain. How do you move 3 stones that weigh 800 tons a piece a half mile from where they were quarried and then place them onto a wall 20 feet off the ground? The quarry where these megalithic stones were taken contain two additional stones estimated to be over 1,000 tons each still sitting there. The stones at Puma Punku are diocite....extremely durable material...and yet virtually every stone has been "machined" to a high degree...the stones fit together perfectly...like legos. How was it done? How do you "machine" a stone like granite....or diocite...with the tools we ASSUME those people had available at the time we THINK these places were built?

Where did the technical know how required to move objects that large go? Where did the tools required to "machine" stones of that hardness go? Apparently, we had the required technical expertise and tools at one time as the structures are there....you can see them with you own eyes. It's the HOW that has been lost and to me that is more interesting than any "ET."

Seriously, you didn't see this post A P?

[L8 Braker]

What's it matter?

We're all dead on 12/21/12 anyway :(

[Amber Lamps]

i did not ask any question ? i don't think anyone asked "how could they be built" ? homeslice attempted to summarize COTG with it, unless i am mistaken (without going back through all of the posts. )

hmmm....

[Amber Lamps]

What's it matter?

We're all dead on 12/21/12 anyway :(

dang you broke up my multi-quote....:lol:

btw I wish, talk about a party until the end!:rockwoot:

[KSGregman]

The only thing that makes those places a "mystery" and places like the Great Wall less mysterious is RECORD KEEPING or the lack there of. Everyone knows how the wall was built so no one is going around claiming "alien involvement" or ancient uber engineering concepts. Is not the great wall equally impressive? Gee, how'd they ever build it using non-modern techniques? LABOR and time.....

And tools...and that is really the heart of my question.

Did it require time and manpower to quarry the stones that comprise the Trililthon? Absolutely. But it's the TOOLS required to move those 800 ton stones a half mile...and lift them into position within the structure that interest me. You're not moving an 800 ton megalithic stone with just manpower. Those people had tools to do the job...and we seemed to have lost them somehow...the tools..and the technological know how.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/KSGregman/Baalbek1.jpg

[Papa_Complex]

I'm betting they had tools made of douchebag.

Impossible. New Jersey didn't exist until 1702.

You can do amazing things with tools made out of the same material that you want to work, a work ethic, and patience.

KSGregman, they used such complex tools as rope, wooden rollers, sand, and water.

[Inferno]

Here is an intersting website, this "story" (if it is a story) might have inspired Speilberg, Carl Sagan and Gene Roddenberry. True? I don't know, but intersting and would not surprise me...


http://www.serpo.org/

[AquaPython]

where did they get wooden rollers in the desert?

[Papa_Complex]

Watch and learn.

http://www.wimp.com/buildingstonehenge/

[Homeslice]

Who would be God from our perspective...

Exactly, just like the movie Stargate. Again, I haven't seen any convincing evidence, but I don't entirely dismiss the "space seed" theory. If you believe that intelligent life could have evolved on Earth without a God, then there's no reason why it couldn't have evolved on another planet before travelling to Earth afterwards.

In addition, you should search Youtube for a Cosmos episode about how a 2-dimensional being wouldn't be able to comprehend a 3-dimensional being entering their environment. A similar situation could exist between us and alien life. The idea that they would arrive in physical spaceships is a little outdated IMO.

[Amber Lamps]

Impossible. New Jersey didn't exist until 1702.

You can do amazing things with tools made out of the same material that you want to work, a work ethic, and patience.

KSGregman, they used such complex tools as rope, wooden rollers, sand, and water.

Thanks man, that's all I'm trying to say....how do they cut diamonds? We have been doing it for hundreds, maybe thousands of years...

I guess that I ASSumed that he knew about logs, ropes, levers, pulleys, scaffolds, fulcrums, etc....All of our "modern" machines/building techniques are simply variations of ancient ones.

[Inferno]

Exactly, just like the movie Stargate. Again, I haven't seen any convincing evidence, but I don't entirely dismiss the "space seed" theory. If you believe that intelligent life could have evolved on Earth without a God, then there's no reason why it couldn't have evolved on another planet before travelling to Earth afterwards.

In addition, you should search Youtube for a Cosmos episode about how a 2-dimensional being wouldn't be able to comprehend a 3-dimensional being entering their environment. A similar situation could exist between us and alien life. The idea that they would arrive in physical spaceships is a little outdated IMO.

alex collier touches on this a bit (tons of youtube vids) but I think he is batshit crazy

[Amber Lamps]

where did they get wooden rollers in the desert?

really? The Egyptian empire was huge at one time and included many fertile areas that had trees...:idk: You float them down the Nile and ....

[Papa_Complex]

really? The Egyptian empire was huge at one time and included many fertile areas that had trees...:idk: You float them down the Nile and ....

Funny how people automatically think of an area full of nothing but sand dunes, when they think of a desert.

[Amber Lamps]

alex collier touches on this a bit (tons of youtube vids) but I think he is batshit crazy

Most of these guys are... of course, if he is ever proven to be "right" he'll then become a genius!!!:lol:

[Amber Lamps]

Funny how people automatically think of an area full of nothing but sand dunes, when they think of a desert.

Having been to the Middle East twice helps... I would have thought the same thing before I had been there if I hadn't already been interested in the area. I used to be an avid studier of religion and that relatively small area has produced most of the world's main religions.

[Inferno]

Most of these guys are... of course, if he is ever proven to be "right" he'll then become a genius!!!:lol:

Some of what he says is plausable, but other things is downright insane :lol:

For instance, he said the moon is actually a giant spacship full of aliens lol

[Amber Lamps]

Some of what he says is plausable, but other things is downright insane :lol:

For instance, he said the moon is actually a giant spacship full of aliens lol

What's so off the wall about that?:wink: It's better than my theory... The moon was once another planet that had the misfortune of orbiting a little too close to ours. Eventually, Earth captured it but in the process, the Earth was dragged slightly out of it's normal orbit. Which cooled the climate, killed the dinosaurs and eventually caused the ice age. Now we are slowly falling back into our original orbit which explains "global warming". Also the radiation given off helped hasten our evolution from small mammals.... hee, hee, hee...

[Papa_Complex]

What's so off the wall about that?:wink:

What junk. Everyone knows that it's the home of the beasts.

http://www.amazon.com/Cthulhu-Moon-Beast-Plush-Vault/dp/B000B8X1BQ

[AquaPython]

really? The Egyptian empire was huge at one time and included many fertile areas that had trees...:idk: You float them down the Nile and ....

congratulations, i have been to the area 3 times now. what really is funny here is that i ask a simple question and you guys jump all over it like I am retarded and you have all the answers, promptly inserting foot in mouth.

The point I make with my question is that while the area did have trees, it was basically ONLY in the fertile lands close to the Nile. And you think that these trees would be chopped down for an endless length of rollers and scaffolding just to build these monoliths over hundreds of years, that (as the story books would have you believe) serve no other purpose but a moratorium for a long dead king? What a giant, no, fucking COLOSSAL waste or invaluable resources that would be, no?
The benefits of the life bearing trees in that region staying like that, would far outweigh the alternative.

This leaves only shipping. They had a thriving sea-port based economy, but then they would need to have paid for how many thousands of trees to be imported?

just the tip of the iceberg.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Exactly, just like the movie Stargate. Again, I haven't seen any convincing evidence, but I don't entirely dismiss the "space seed" theory.

Emory: Isn't that the Starga—

Oglethorpe: NO! It is the FARGATE! It is not some other kind of gate from a movie or TV show that I've never seen! Notice that it has a wheelchair and a pink mohawk? We're not getting sued!

:lol:

1. Yes. I won't say "believe", rather, I see no sufficient evidence to disprove the existence of advanced lifeforms elsewhere in the universe. Are they actively traveling and visiting us? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. Perhaps in the past.

2. I can definitely accept the possibility that humankind was seeded and nurtured in its infancy by a higher intelligence... or that we began elsewhere. We're sufficiently different from most of the other creatures on this planet to suggest such a thing.

[KSGregman]

Watch and learn.

http://www.wimp.com/buildingstonehenge/


Now, see? This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Know how...and TOOLS..in this case a relatively simple fulcrum.

That was awesome.

[OneSickPsycho]

congratulations, i have been to the area 3 times now. what really is funny here is that i ask a simple question and you guys jump all over it like I am retarded and you have all the answers, promptly inserting foot in mouth.

The point I make with my question is that while the area did have trees, it was basically ONLY in the fertile lands close to the Nile. And you think that these trees would be chopped down for an endless length of rollers and scaffolding just to build these monoliths over hundreds of years, that (as the story books would have you believe) serve no other purpose but a moratorium for a long dead king? What a giant, no, fucking COLOSSAL waste or invaluable resources that would be, no?
The benefits of the life bearing trees in that region staying like that, would far outweigh the alternative.

This leaves only shipping. They had a thriving sea-port based economy, but then they would need to have paid for how many thousands of trees to be imported?

just the tip of the iceberg.

Watch that stone henge guy video posted earlier... you don't need a shit ton of wood to move big stones... other stones work as well.

And remember back then labor was free and resources were pissed away because only a handful of people were important enough to 'deserve' them. Plus, they viewed past rulers as gods in many cases... Put all that shit together and it's readily possible... granted, it's not as romantic as an alien invasion.

[Method]

Didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this is a repeat.

My take:

The only intelligent life in the history of the universe, no.

The only intelligent life currently surviving in the universe, possibly. Civilizations and intelligent life come and go. One day humans will likely become extinct as other alien civilations likely have before us.

[Papa_Complex]

Watch that stone henge guy video posted earlier... you don't need a shit ton of wood to move big stones... other stones work as well.

And remember back then labor was free and resources were pissed away because only a handful of people were important enough to 'deserve' them. Plus, they viewed past rulers as gods in many cases... Put all that shit together and it's readily possible... granted, it's not as romantic as an alien invasion.

People were also working for their "God Kings", who held the power of life and death over all they surveyed, so the pressure to work hard was high. I doubt that construction of such things took as long as many here believe.

[AquaPython]

Watch that stone henge guy video posted earlier... you don't need a shit ton of wood to move big stones... other stones work as well.

And remember back then labor was free and resources were pissed away because only a handful of people were important enough to 'deserve' them. Plus, they viewed past rulers as gods in many cases... Put all that shit together and it's readily possible... granted, it's not as romantic as an alien invasion.

i saw the video and it is impressive. maybe it was the way stone henge was built.

but i did not see any vertical lifting with his ideas.

there are many other questions. such as why this desolate location on the planet?
why was it built so far away from the quarries?

why were the pharoahs alive and dead referred to as gods, exactlY?

[Papa_Complex]

i saw the video and it is impressive. maybe it was the way stone henge was built.

but i did not see any vertical lifting with his ideas.

there are many other questions. such as why this desolate location on the planet?
why was it built so far away from the quarries?

why were the pharoahs alive and dead referred to as gods, exactlY?

Actually he did do some vertical lifting, which is how he got the stone in position to be dropped in the hole. You don't have to lift anything, if you build a ramp. If you build the ramp up the side of a massive structure, then remove the ramp, all that is left is the structure.

A lot of places that are now desolate, weren't in the past. Places that are currently nothing but desert or grassland show signs of having been heavily forested in the past.

They were referred to as Gods because when the guy has the power to have your head off, at a moment's notice, you call him whatever he wants to be called.

[AquaPython]

Actually he did do some vertical lifting, which is how he got the stone in position to be dropped in the hole. You don't have to lift anything, if you build a ramp. If you build the ramp up the side of a massive structure, then remove the ramp, all that is left is the structure.

A lot of places that are now desolate, weren't in the past. Places that are currently nothing but desert or grassland show signs of having been heavily forested in the past.

They were referred to as Gods because when the guy has the power to have your head off, at a moment's notice, you call him whatever he wants to be called.

lifting, i saw how he made it vertical, but how would he place the cross-bridge rock? build a ramp? he did not show lateral movement either that i saw, just rotation. extrapolate it to egypt.

places change. yes they do, but often over many thousands of years. giza was and still is in the middle of the desert.

gods. that is a convenient answer, but then why not just kings, lords, emperors.

[Avatard]

The OP asked if aliens exist. Like I said in post #2, I think given the vastness of the Universe, it would be naive to think otherwise...but, that said, I also do agree with what a number of folks have pointed out: That the likelihood of us ever coming in contact with any during our lifetimes is very slim...again, for the reasons of sheer vastness...of both time, and space.

[Papa_Complex]

lifting, i saw how he made it vertical, but how would he place the cross-bridge rock? build a ramp? he did not show lateral movement either that i saw, just rotation. extrapolate it to egypt.

places change. yes they do, but often over many thousands of years. giza was and still is in the middle of the desert.

gods. that is a convenient answer, but then why not just kings, lords, emperors.

No, he didn't show how to get the cross-pieces in place, but he did show two separate forms of lateral movement. One involved pivoting around a small offset stone, as a rotation point. The other involved rolling along wooden ramps, that had triangular cut-outs that assisted in starting and maintaining movement. I've seen video involving the use of A-framed logs used to raise a centre stone, but haven't been able to find it online anywhere.

Remember, that's just what one guy could accomplish. You want to extrapolate it to Egypt? Add another 9,999 slaves to that number.

As stated, Egypt was the heart of a massive empire. They had matériel, technology, bureaucracy, slaves, and time. Location is relatively unimportant.

The word "king" just doesn't have the same punch as the word "God." If someone is your "God", that implies a much deeper necessity for devotion and service. The Emperor of Japan is also supposed to be descended from gods. Look what his people were willing to do for HIM, and that's a far more modern example. "Divine Right of Kings" goes back an awful long way.

Consider David Koresh. Now take away the FBI and technology, add about 20 absolute loonies with kopeshes and spears, and turn them loose on the world. It wouldn't take too many generations for that to grow into God King worship.

[the chi]

If I recall correctly, the ancient egyptians felt that their leaders were the physical manifestation of their gods and worshipped them as such. How they got this idea was likely propoganda promoted by the kings themselves and mostly by their priests. Like someone else mentioned, other cultures encouraged this as well, and the leaders themselves were the ones who decreed they were a god.

[Amber Lamps]

congratulations, i have been to the area 3 times now. what really is funny here is that i ask a simple question and you guys jump all over it like I am retarded and you have all the answers, promptly inserting foot in mouth.

The point I make with my question is that while the area did have trees, it was basically ONLY in the fertile lands close to the Nile. And you think that these trees would be chopped down for an endless length of rollers and scaffolding just to build these monoliths over hundreds of years, that (as the story books would have you believe) serve no other purpose but a moratorium for a long dead king? What a giant, no, fucking COLOSSAL waste or invaluable resources that would be, no?
The benefits of the life bearing trees in that region staying like that, would far outweigh the alternative.

This leaves only shipping. They had a thriving sea-port based economy, but then they would need to have paid for how many thousands of trees to be imported?

just the tip of the iceberg.


What? You can't be serious... GOD commanded it be build and so it was!!! History shows that the Egyptian economy was indeed nearly devastated by the building of monuments... besides, what exactly do captured slaves cost? How difficult is it to get monumental tasks accomplished when you can basically knock on any door and demand that the inhabitants come work for free? Who cares how many die? This was for the Pharaoh, no greater honor existed than to work and die for his glory! It's all about motivation, bro. Money, really isn't a factor when you "own" the labor, materials, shipping, etc....:idk:

What was the total "wasted" resources during the crusades? How about the Inquisition? Heck, how about almost any war ever waged? What about our own monuments, what purpose do they serve? Any idea how much the Lincoln memorial cost to build and maintain? The Washington Monument? The Statue of Liberty? Seriously, how many poor and homeless could we shelter with just the money spent on monuments in this country...

[njchopper87]

Holy shit too much to read. I'd have to say yes, and that there's chance we were brought here via space debris.

[6doublefive321]

If I recall correctly, the ancient egyptians felt that their leaders were the physical manifestation of their gods and worshipped them as such. How they got this idea was likely propoganda promoted by the kings themselves and mostly by their priests. Like someone else mentioned, other cultures encouraged this as well, and the leaders themselves were the ones who decreed they were a god.

Yeah. That and they also owned the whips.

[Amber Lamps]

Yeah. That and they also owned the whips.

next question, how did the "ancient" Americans get their cotton picked? Was it space aliens?:lol:

[KSGregman]

next question, how did the "ancient" Americans get their cotton picked? Was it space aliens?:lol:

You are over simplifying the discussion. Are there certain things that a ton of free labor and long time windows to accomplish the task would be beneficial? Absolutely....no one with any sense questions that.

To me, the more interesting question comes from looking at both the magnitude of the accomplishment, and the quality. Puma Punku, for example. The stonework there is mastercrafted...in a difficult material to work with. Extremely tight tolerances. I'm just asking...what tools were used to accomplish these feats? Nothing made of copper...nothing made of bronze...too soft. Was it diamond edged tools? If so, where are the diamonds now? Wouldn't there be some evidence of the tools used to complete the job to be found somewhere in or around the job site?

The fact is, WE DON'T KNOW. And that is what makes it interesting...they did it...the ruins are there for everyone to see. But HOW?!

[AquaPython]

the examples you speak of, we can NOT reproduce today.

[Amber Lamps]

Hey I'm a simple kind of Guy... I know that the one location poses special problems /obstacles foe them to overcome but I stand by my previous hypothesis ...given enough time and manpower anything is possible... oh btw, diamond dust or tools made from the same material would do the trick. As far as finding the tools later...we may find them in graves. A tool that valuable and difficult to produce would be a family heirloom, someone could conceivably be using it right now.

[Adeptus_Minor]

the examples you speak of, we can NOT reproduce today.

Exactly, but now it's because of accountants and building codes, not lack of know-how or tools. :lol:

[the chi]

Im with KSG and AP, the technology that had to have been used surpasses anything we could attempt to reproduce today. And look at the QUALITY, machine made and handcrafted cant compare to these historical feats.

And seriously Tig, heirlooms that someone's using today? From thousands of years ago? Or in graves? That we have already excavated I'd like to point out...

[Papa_Complex]

the examples you speak of, we can NOT reproduce today.

Give me 20,000 slaves, a quarry, and 5,000 guys with spears and swords, and I'll show you how to build a pyramid.

Hey I'm a simple kind of Guy... I know that the one location poses special problems /obstacles foe them to overcome but I stand by my previous hypothesis ...given enough time and manpower anything is possible... oh btw, diamond dust or tools made from the same material would do the trick. As far as finding the tools later...we may find them in graves. A tool that valuable and difficult to produce would be a family heirloom, someone could conceivably be using it right now.

Tools made out of the same stone should work fine.

[Trip]

Tools made out of the same stone should work fine.

So what did they use to make the tools? And what did they do with the tools that made the tools? :lol:

[Papa_Complex]

So what did they use to make the tools? And what did they do with the tools that made the tools? :lol:

Smash stuff together enough and, no matter how hard, it eventually breaks. Native Americans made tools from Armour Stone, despite the fact that we use explosives and diamond cutting wheels to work with it today.

[Trip]

Smash stuff together enough and, no matter how hard, it eventually breaks. Native Americans made tools from Armour Stone, despite the fact that we use explosives and diamond cutting wheels to work with it today.

it was joke, hence the smiley

[101lifts2]

Aliens are just a different form of an angel or fallen angel.

[Flexin]

congratulations, i have been to the area 3 times now. what really is funny here is that i ask a simple question and you guys jump all over it like I am retarded and you have all the answers, promptly inserting foot in mouth.

The point I make with my question is that while the area did have trees, it was basically ONLY in the fertile lands close to the Nile. And you think that these trees would be chopped down for an endless length of rollers and scaffolding just to build these monoliths over hundreds of years, that (as the story books would have you believe) serve no other purpose but a moratorium for a long dead king? What a giant, no, fucking COLOSSAL waste or invaluable resources that would be, no?
The benefits of the life bearing trees in that region staying like that, would far outweigh the alternative.

This leaves only shipping. They had a thriving sea-port based economy, but then they would need to have paid for how many thousands of trees to be imported?

just the tip of the iceberg.

You don't need a endless line of rollers. You just need rollers in front of your object. Once it is off the object that roller is free to move to the front.

I moved a couple hundred pound gate a couple hundred feet because I was told I needed more help then I thought I would. So I did it myself with one steel pole. I also used a Dodge ram but thats not the point. I was told I would tear up the driveway if I pulled it with the truck (I said I will tie it to that damn truck if I had to) so I used the roller to protect the driveway.

I would pull till the roller came out from the gate then I got out and moved the pole to the front and pulled some more. With more poles I wouldn't even need the truck.

James

[Homeslice]

Here you go.........awesome video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0&feature=related

[Inferno]

Here you go.........awesome video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0&feature=related

Very interesting, I read about that quite a few years ago. We, being stuck in "our" dimension, can't comprehend other "directions".

I think we might have been visited by "other" lifeforms for thousands or dare say millions of years. AND we might have indeed been fucked with

[Amber Lamps]

Im with KSG and AP, the technology that had to have been used surpasses anything we could attempt to reproduce today. And look at the QUALITY, machine made and handcrafted cant compare to these historical feats.

And seriously Tig, heirlooms that someone's using today? From thousands of years ago? Or in graves? That we have already excavated I'd like to point out...

So we have excavated every grave?... I was kidding about using it BUT it's not that far fetched. If this material is as tough as been stated then I see no reason why it couldn't still be around. I again say that it is pure poppy cock that someone "can't" make a square block by hand today... Why not? I doubt you'd find someone that would do it but that doesn't mean it can't be done. My God people it wasn't that long ago that we built this entire country by hand using techniques not all that far removed from those employed in these places. Again, the biggest problem here is lack of documentation... The beautiful columns/ruins in Athens, they are nigh on perfect. Anyone think they were made by aliens or whatever? Nope, we know exactly how they were produced because of records. They quarried HUGE blocks of granite using nothing but hammers, chisels and labor. Moved them hundreds of miles, cut them into pieces weighing thousands of pounds and stacked them almost perfectly...

[Rangerscott]

Ya'll can have your aliens. I'll stick with my spaghetti monster.

http://www.oodegr.com/english/atheismos/eikones/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.jpg

[Amber Lamps]

You don't need a endless line of rollers. You just need rollers in front of your object. Once it is off the object that roller is free to move to the front.

I moved a couple hundred pound gate a couple hundred feet because I was told I needed more help then I thought I would. So I did it myself with one steel pole. I also used a Dodge ram but thats not the point. I was told I would tear up the driveway if I pulled it with the truck (I said I will tie it to that damn truck if I had to) so I used the roller to protect the driveway.

I would pull till the roller came out from the gate then I got out and moved the pole to the front and pulled some more. With more poles I wouldn't even need the truck.

James


I didn't bother pointing this out because I felt that this would obvious... I'm honestly starting to think that some of these guys are pulling our legs with this stuff...

[Rangerscott]

Why does any time aliens are brought up, they are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000x smarter than us?

If we're not the only ones, why do we put ourselves as the stupidest ones in the universe?

[Amber Lamps]

Smash stuff together enough and, no matter how hard, it eventually breaks. Native Americans made tools from Armour Stone, despite the fact that we use explosives and diamond cutting wheels to work with it today.

I saw a monkey use that technique on "Life" a few months ago...:lol: Apparently, we are incapable of doing something like that...

[Method]

Here you go.........awesome video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0&feature=related

Holy fucking hell. So THIS is where they got the inspiration for Agent Smith in The Matrix.

ConSIDer the cuBE, Mr. Anderson.

[EpyonXero]

Why does any time aliens are brought up, they are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000x smarter than us?

If we're not the only ones, why do we put ourselves as the stupidest ones in the universe?

Because they can travel to other solar systems and we cant.

[Avatard]

Why does any time aliens are brought up, they are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000x smarter than us?

If we're not the only ones, why do we put ourselves as the stupidest ones in the universe?

Because humans stampede [see: Love Parade 2010].

How fucking smart can we really be? We're as dumb as fucking cattle, bro.

[Trip]

Because they can travel to other solar systems and we cant.

That's an assumption, who says they even have that technology? They could still be in the middle ages. Hell they could still be one celled organisms.

[OneSickPsycho]

Why does any time aliens are brought up, they are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000x smarter than us?

If we're not the only ones, why do we put ourselves as the stupidest ones in the universe?

It's like believing in god... we just *hope* there is something bigger, better, smarter, etc... we need something to believe in...

[LeeNetworX]

Why does any time aliens are brought up, they are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000x smarter than us?

If we're not the only ones, why do we put ourselves as the stupidest ones in the universe?

Just take a look at some of the posts on this forum alone, bro. I have no choice but to assume we are dumb, as a collective.

[6doublefive321]

Why does any time aliens are brought up, they are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000x smarter than us?

If we're not the only ones, why do we put ourselves as the stupidest ones in the universe?

Look no further than your sig pic and this thread. We are indeed the stupidest race in the universe.

[LeeNetworX]

Look no further than your sig pic and this thread. We are indeed the stupidest race in the universe.

Beat you to the punch. :lol

[Inferno]

It's like believing in god... we just *hope* there is something bigger, better, smarter, etc... we need something to believe in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk11Ywen5a4&feature=av2e

[EpyonXero]

That's an assumption, who says they even have that technology? They could still be in the middle ages. Hell they could still be one celled organisms.

Im referring to the jpg posted by Lee with instructions for first contact where all the tips assume that the ETs are much more advanced than us.. If a human were to meet an alien face to face then the aliens must have traveled to our planet since we dont have the ability to go to theirs.

Here you go.........awesome video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0&feature=related

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/8-cell-simple.gif

[Amber Lamps]

The aliens that you meet may not be that intelligent..a fighter pilot can fly a F-16 but he can't build one or explain how everything works.

[VatorMan]

The aliens that you meet may not be that intelligent..a fighter pilot can fly a F-16 but he can't build one or explain how everything works.

Kind of like the "Predator" style of alien. Hell, they are using 1970's style Infrared for crying out loud.

[Amber Lamps]

Kind of like the "Predator" style of alien. Hell, they are using 1970's style Infrared for crying out loud.

Exactly! Hey they taught a monkey to run some things in early space missions and with advanced computer automation...

[Dave]

Im referring to the jpg posted by Lee with instructions for first contact where all the tips assume that the ETs are much more advanced than us.. If a human were to meet an alien face to face then the aliens must have traveled to our planet since we dont have the ability to go to theirs.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/8-cell-simple.gif

We have the ability, we refuse to apply ourselves.

[Inferno]

I am under the impression that we do have alien tech, but the Govt' and Corps' want to keep it hidden because of our need for fossil fuels and petrol, uncovering this tech would mean profit and tax losses.

[Papa_Complex]

Im referring to the jpg posted by Lee with instructions for first contact where all the tips assume that the ETs are much more advanced than us.. If a human were to meet an alien face to face then the aliens must have traveled to our planet since we dont have the ability to go to theirs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/8-cell-simple.gif

If there actually are extraterrestrials out there, who is to say that they've overcome things like relativity? They could use methods of power and propulsion that we current have available to us, but simply take a longer view.

[Trip]

If there actually are extraterrestrials out there, who is to say that they've overcome things like relativity? They could use methods of power and propulsion that we current have available to us, but simply take a longer view.

This is what I doubt. Sure there may be more advanced species than us, but to get to the point to be able to travel between life supporting stars is a huge undertaking. It could possibly take generations upon generations upon generations...etc to do it. No contact with your home world, possibly no contact with any other being. You could just be adrift and have a new civilization in space and go absolutely nuts til the dumbfuck on the ship blows everyone up.

[Homeslice]

I am under the impression that we do have alien tech, but the Govt' and Corps' want to keep it hidden because of our need for fossil fuels and petrol, uncovering this tech would mean profit and tax losses.

Assuming we do have any alien tech, or even just advanced human tech related to propulsion or energy, they are keeping it under wraps so they can develop military applications with it, as well as prevent other nations from exploiting it.

Even if it's a civilian scientist who comes out with tech like that, the government will most likely gang up on them and "persuade" them to take a government job with tons of support and fancy facilities ---- At the price of keeping their work secret.

[AquaPython]

This is what I doubt. Sure there may be more advanced species than us, but to get to the point to be able to travel between life supporting stars is a huge undertaking. It could possibly take generations upon generations upon generations...etc to do it. No contact with your home world, possibly no contact with any other being. You could just be adrift and have a new civilization in space and go absolutely nuts til the dumbfuck on the ship blows everyone up.

you are thinking along the lines of human (or close) technology. If there is a civilization that has conquered space travel, they are most definitely not using thrusters to rocket from star system to star system. We already recognize the plausibility of using worm holes / folding space, we just lack the technology and energy resources needed to harness them. That is just the theories that we have put together here in the last 20-30 years. such a civilization is most likely instantaneously moving about the cosmos.

[Dave]

you are thinking along the lines of human (or close) technology. If there is a civilization that has conquered space travel, they are most definitely not using thrusters to rocket from star system to star system. We already recognize the plausibility of using worm holes / folding space, we just lack the technology and energy resources needed to harness them. That is just the theories that we have put together here in the last 20-30 years. such a civilization is most likely instantaneously moving about the cosmos.

I agree that the likelyhood of a long lasting spacefaring culture being limited to reaction thrusters being low. Something you've missed is they would almost certaintly have had to develop some sort of inertial compensator. Nobody likes going splat when the engines come on

[Trip]

you are thinking along the lines of human (or close) technology. If there is a civilization that has conquered space travel, they are most definitely not using thrusters to rocket from star system to star system. We already recognize the plausibility of using worm holes / folding space, we just lack the technology and energy resources needed to harness them. That is just the theories that we have put together here in the last 20-30 years. such a civilization is most likely instantaneously moving about the cosmos.

That's if they can defeat relativity as previously discussed, keep up with the discussion.

[Amber Lamps]

I agree that the likelyhood of a long lasting spacefaring culture being limited to reaction thrusters being low. Something you've missed is they would almost certaintly have had to develop some sort of inertial compensator. Nobody likes going splat when the engines come on

Yea but alien is alien, suppose they live 1,000 years or are immortal? Maybe they are super tough and can handle any amount of g force thrown at them...

[AquaPython]

That's if they can defeat relativity as previously discussed, keep up with the discussion.
the whole point of wormholes is that you don't have to go faster than the speed of light. unless you are saying something else?

[Amber Lamps]

That's if they can defeat relativity as previously discussed, keep up with the discussion.

Immortal beings... we're immortal relative to a fruit fly...:idk: What we think of as "insurmountable time periods" may be a day trip to them with the kids not asking, " Are we there yet?" until the last 5-6,000 years...:lol:

[Homeslice]

I agree that the likelyhood of a long lasting spacefaring culture being limited to reaction thrusters being low. Something you've missed is they would almost certaintly have had to develop some sort of inertial compensator. Nobody likes going splat when the engines come on

If they have some kind of "space folding" technology, no physical acceleration would be required.

[Amber Lamps]

the whole point of wormholes is that you don't have to go faster than the speed of light. unless you are saying something else?

Depending on where the worm hole is... I always thought that worm holes were collapsed stars...we'd still need to make the trip to the worm hole. If you're thinking about the whole, "make your own worm hole" thing... Well, that type of tinkering could definitely ruin your entire day if things go wrong.

[Dave]

If they have some kind of "space folding" technology, no physical acceleration would be required.

Conjecture. No ones ever done it

[Dave]

Yea but alien is alien, suppose they live 1,000 years or are immortal? Maybe they are super tough and can handle any amount of g force thrown at them...

Or they resemble squids and live in a liquid environment that would have a far higher g tolerance

[Amber Lamps]

Or they resemble squids and live in a liquid environment that would have a far higher g tolerance

Maybe they are cookie cutter sharks?

[AquaPython]

Conjecture. No ones ever done it

his point is that it is a doorway, so one would require only lateral movement to "walk through the doorway", on the other side of which would be another point in space-time.

[Dave]

Maybe they are cookie cutter sharks?

Or a sharktapus

[Trip]

his point is that it is a doorway, so one would require only lateral movement to "walk through the doorway", on the other side of which would be another point in space-time.

Which would be nice if you could just magically leave out the physics behind the inbetween area of the doorways.

[Dave]

his point is that it is a doorway, so one would require only lateral movement to "walk through the doorway", on the other side of which would be another point in space-time.

You honestly think you can twist the universe into a pretzel, rend a hole in it and jump to the opposite side with the same kind of ease and lack of consequence as popping outside to get the morning paper?

[AquaPython]

Which would be nice if you could just magically leave out the physics behind the inbetween area of the doorways.

i think you are thinking of stargate, where they go whisping through some long tunnel. that is not a wormhole.

there is not much to leave out according to recent theory. take a piece of paper and call it "space time". now take one end of the paper to the other, and poke through both parts of the sheet with a pencil. the pencil point is your ship going through a wormhole.

You honestly think you can twist the universe into a pretzel, rend a hole in it and jump to the opposite side with the same kind of ease and lack of consequence as popping outside to get the morning paper?

i dont think i can. Physicists conjecture that WE can, in the future. yes. It is not unfathomable that a superior race already can. ease and lack of consequence is not the discussion here, just talking about the concept.

[Trip]

i think you are thinking of stargate, where they go whisping through some long tunnel. that is not a wormhole.

there is not much to leave out according to recent theory. take a piece of paper and call it "space time". now take one end of the paper to the other, and poke through both parts of the sheet with a pencil. the pencil point is your ship going through a wormhole.


Ok, the physics of folding the paper. There is a lot more to this than you actually are making it sound. Folding the paper is not simply walking through one door and stepping out another. Can a worm hole even support life is another question. You over simplifying a very very in depth theory.

[Homeslice]

Which would be nice if you could just magically leave out the physics behind the inbetween area of the doorways.

Our physics of only 100 years ago was junk compared to today's. Do you honestly think everything about physics will remain the same in another 100 years?

Conjecture. No ones ever done it

Sting did, in Dune.

[Papa_Complex]

This is what I doubt. Sure there may be more advanced species than us, but to get to the point to be able to travel between life supporting stars is a huge undertaking. It could possibly take generations upon generations upon generations...etc to do it. No contact with your home world, possibly no contact with any other being. You could just be adrift and have a new civilization in space and go absolutely nuts til the dumbfuck on the ship blows everyone up.

You're making a couple of assumptions here, that aren't necessarily so.

The first is that these postulated creatures think, in any way, like we do.

The second is that travel would take place at non relativistic velocities. The closer you get to the speed of light not only does the travel time get cut, but the time PERCEIVED by the traveller is reduced. A long, slow push up to .75C, then a deceleration, could make things possible. Could our present technology do it? Ion pulse drive maybe? I don't know. We haven't had the technology long enough to find out.

[Inferno]

i think you are thinking of stargate, where they go whisping through some long tunnel. that is not a wormhole.

there is not much to leave out according to recent theory. take a piece of paper and call it "space time". now take one end of the paper to the other, and poke through both parts of the sheet with a pencil. the pencil point is your ship going through a wormhole.



i dont think i can. Physicists conjecture that WE can, in the future. yes. It is not unfathomable that a superior race already can. ease and lack of consequence is not the discussion here, just talking about the concept.

Yep. We are not talking a hundred or so years, we are talking civilizations thousands or even millions of years more advanced. Given our universe is roughly 13 billion years old, our solar system is roughly 5 billion years old....there is quite a few billion years discrepancy

Einstien already proved that gravity can bend space/time. We have to figure out what gravity is. We don't know what it is...but we do know it is there

[Dave]

Our physics of only 100 years ago was junk compared to today's. Do you honestly think everything about physics will remain the same in another 100 years?



Sting did, in Dune.

Epic fail. Fey'd has about 0 squared to do with piloting a heighliner. Acceptable answers would have been norma cenva or dmurr pilru.

[AquaPython]

Ok, the physics of folding the paper. There is a lot more to this than you actually are making it sound. Folding the paper is not simply walking through one door and stepping out another. Can a worm hole even support life is another question. You over simplifying a very very in depth theory.

yes i am simplifying it, and i am in no way saying it is easy, or we would have already done it. I am simply saying that despite how hard it seems, many people believe it to be possible.

[Trip]

Our physics of only 100 years ago was junk compared to today's. Do you honestly think everything about physics will remain the same in another 100 years?

Exactly, we know nothing about this type of shit. That's why we ruled it out. Is it possible for life to do such a thing? we don't know. That's why we ruled it out and went a different direction with the discussion.

[Papa_Complex]

Ok, the physics of folding the paper. There is a lot more to this than you actually are making it sound. Folding the paper is not simply walking through one door and stepping out another. Can a worm hole even support life is another question. You over simplifying a very very in depth theory.

A 'wormhole' isn't a tunnel in space, it's a hole in the curvature of space-time. It's zero distance.

It has been postulated that they could be created between two impossibly massive, rotating, cylindrical objects. The theory seems sound and has been incorporated into various Hard SF novels, like Poul Anderson's "Avatar."

... though of course you have to get to the two points, in order to construct those cylinders...

[Homeslice]

Epic fail. Fey'd has about 0 squared to do with piloting a heighliner. Acceptable answers would have been norma cenva or dmurr pilru.

I figured Sting was the only character anyone here would recognize.

[Homeslice]

Ok, the physics of folding the paper. There is a lot more to this than you actually are making it sound. Folding the paper is not simply walking through one door and stepping out another. Can a worm hole even support life is another question. You over simplifying a very very in depth theory.

A wormhole might not even be necessary. There is talk about creating a "bubble" in space-time around a ship.

[defector]

Einstien already proved that gravity can bend space/time. We have to figure out what gravity is. We don't know what it is...but we do know it is there

There was a show on the science channel that I was watching about this. Pretty interesting stuff.

[Inferno]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEiXEHsf4Ms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o69rkhzLXj8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ls7lcturUQ&feature=related

[Amber Lamps]

Here's the thing about AC... He's not a kook, he's a charlatan... If you've watched any of his videos or read any of his books over time you realize that his story has changed several times to better mesh with what is going on at the time. Much like religion, he changes his story to better capture the hearts and minds of his audience. In the 90s, he basically foretold the end of the earth in 2000. Oops, 2000 comes and nothing happens, he drops out of sight and now he's back talking about 2012. Heck, even the story of how he first made contact with the aliens has changed 2 or 3 times...

Besides, don't we now have very detailed photos of the dark side of the moon and Mars? Which is probably why he doesn't talk about them as much anymore...

[the chi]

But AC didnt predict the end of the world in 2012, I beleive it was the Mayan calendar...

[Papa_Complex]

But AC didnt predict the end of the world in 2012, I beleive it was the Mayan calendar...

That's a mistake that the end-of-the-world types make, on purpose. The Mayan calendar doesn't predict anything. The Mayans just didn't release a 2013 edition of their calendar. Whether it's because they just couldn't be bothered planning further ahead than that, or if it was because their calendar girl Ix Chel wouldn't sign another contact, is up for grabs.

Based on the fact that their civilization is gone, it probably was a good idea not to plan that far ahead anyway.

[the chi]

That's a mistake that the end-of-the-world types make, on purpose. The Mayan calendar doesn't predict anything. The Mayans just didn't release a 2013 edition of their calendar. Whether it's because they just couldn't be bothered planning further ahead than that, or if it was because their calendar girl Ix Chel wouldn't sign another contact, is up for grabs.

Based on the fact that their civilization is gone, it probably was a good idea not to plan that far ahead anyway.

:rofl: Thats awesome, thanks for clearing that up.

[AquaPython]

According to mayans and the calender, it is the End of the 4th Era (or world), signalling the begining of the 5th and final era. people take it to mean the end of the world because according to mayan stories each time the era ends the world is supposedly destroyed and born anew. However, this destruction or cleansing is just a translation (or mis-translation) because obviously some mayans survived from age to age to pass on the stories.
the age's also line up with certain very real celestial events, such as the earth's alignment and crossing of the galaxial plane which may cause a pole shift (both of which have happened before at about the same time)

[Dave]

That's a mistake that the end-of-the-world types make, on purpose. The Mayan calendar doesn't predict anything. The Mayans just didn't release a 2013 edition of their calendar. Whether it's because they just couldn't be bothered planning further ahead than that, or if it was because their calendar girl Ix Chel wouldn't sign another contact, is up for grabs.

Based on the fact that their civilization is gone, it probably was a good idea not to plan that far ahead anyway.

Can't say I blame her, I hear the 2013 calender was the virgin sacrifice edition

[Papa_Complex]

According to mayans and the calender, it is the End of the 4th Era (or world), signalling the begining of the 5th and final era. people take it to mean the end of the world because according to mayan stories each time the era ends the world is supposedly destroyed and born anew. However, this destruction or cleansing is just a translation (or mis-translation) because obviously some mayans survived from age to age to pass on the stories.
the age's also line up with certain very real celestial events, such as the earth's alignment and crossing of the galaxial plane which may cause a pole shift (both of which have happened before at about the same time)

"Ephraim Zoot predicted that the world would end in April, 1964, - and for him, it did." - Benny Hill

[Inferno]

But AC didnt predict the end of the world in 2012, I beleive it was the Mayan calendar...

I think he said 2013, but not the end of the world...some type of world changing event that involves aliens and we humans evolving to the 4th density or some crap.
In the mid '90's he predicted(or the aliens told him) that in the year 2000, California was going to be a series of 9 or 13 islands and New York was going to be an ash pile due to some type of human caused event. He was sorta close on the New York thing, so his "fans" said he predicted it :lol:

[Homeslice]

According to mayans and the calender, it is the End of the 4th Era (or world), signalling the begining of the 5th and final era. people take it to mean the end of the world because according to mayan stories each time the era ends the world is supposedly destroyed and born anew. However, this destruction or cleansing is just a translation (or mis-translation) because obviously some mayans survived from age to age to pass on the stories.
the age's also line up with certain very real celestial events, such as the earth's alignment and crossing of the galaxial plane which may cause a pole shift (both of which have happened before at about the same time)

Alignment and crossing of the galaxial plane?? I think I'm gonna have to call BS on this.

Pole shifts may have happened before, but it would have been due to large physical events here in Earth, like asteroid impacts, tectonic shifts, or massive shift of the ice shelves........Not because of some intergalactic thing.

Everyone talks about "alignment of the planets" or "alignment of the galaxy" like as if it imparts noticeable gravatational effects on our planet. It doesn't.

[Papa_Complex]

Alignment and crossing of the galaxial plane?? I think I'm gonna have to call BS on this.

Pole shifts may have happened before, but it would have been due to large physical events here in Earth, like asteroid impacts, tectonic shifts, or massive shift of the ice shelves........Not because of some intergalactic thing.

Everyone talks about "alignment of the planets" or "alignment of the galaxy" like as if it imparts noticeable gravatational effects on our planet. It doesn't.

End-of-the-worlders have been saying that we're somehow going to miraculously traverse the galactic plane virtually overnight, and are also calling for some massive galactic alignment at the same time. I don't know that we even have accurate enough tools to measure this stuff, on that scale.

[RedRider2k2]

This seems to fit here. Either way, it's a cool video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQx9U6awFw

[6doublefive321]

Folding space? Sounds good until you realize the physical universe isn't a 2-d plane, but a 3-d object.

On folding space, as a Dune phile, I get pissed when people relate folding space and Dune. From the original novels, navigators didn't "fold" space. They traveled at relativistic velocies and used prescience to predict a safe route. But, I digress.

The entire concept of space time is what is so intriguing about this entire discussion. Somehow, space and time are intertwined and inseparable to our present knowledge. If someone, or some civilization, learns how to separate the two, all problems are solved. If that is the case, the discoverers will not give a rat's ass about our puny world, and thus we will never know.

Another nugget for thought is entropy and time perception. The entire, legitimate, scientific community supports the theory of entropy. That is, any system will spontaneously move towards the state of greatest disorder. Thus, the big bang, expanding universe, rust, erosion, etc. Entropy is a function of time, BUT WHAT THE FUCK IS TIME? Humans think of time as a measure of something, i.e. a clock, but it is more than that.

Myself, I have this grand theory that time is experienced differently by different things. Much like how solar radiation (UV rays) has a greater affect on some folks skin than others. Suppose some objects' structures are more resistant to time than others, i.e. a diamond vs. graphite pencil lead. In other words, "time" moves faster for the pencil lead vs. the diamond. Scientists predict gravitons, so why not timeitons?

This is great stuff. Once I smoke some weed, I'll put up some real crazy stuff.

[Homeslice]

On folding space, as a Dune phile, I get pissed when people relate folding space and Dune. From the original novels, navigators didn't "fold" space. They traveled at relativistic velocies and used prescience to predict a safe route. But, I digress.


If they travelled below the speed of light, how would they get anywhere important before dying?

[KSGregman]

What is time? What is gravity? What gives "things" mass?

All interesting questions...it's apparent that our understanding of these concepts is incomplete at best....particularly what is mass? The mass that we can "see" does not fulfill the mass required to make the observable universe move in the way we predict it should. So where is the "extra mass" required to make the system move in the predicted way? The "plug" in the equations for now is dark matter....but no one can prove it even exists...they only infer that it must exist for the existing framework to be correct. What happens if something is discovered in either the LHC or it's successor that proves the existing framework is wrong?

[Papa_Complex]

If they travelled below the speed of light, how would they get anywhere important before dying?

They didn't travel at below the speed of light.

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Space_travel

[Homeslice]

They didn't travel at below the speed of light.

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Space_travel

6doublefive321 says they did.

[Amber Lamps]

But AC didnt predict the end of the world in 2012, I beleive it was the Mayan calendar...

Look again... I didn't say he did. He's on the 2012 doomsday bandwagon now.

[Smittie61984]

I believe the odds of other intelligent life (or life on the level of fish and above) are the same as a tornado going through a junk yard and building a functioning Space Shuttle. But I do believe those odds are good enough in our infinite vastness of space and stars to support life. Now wether they can travel to other planets or not I don't know.

But if they manage to come here I think they'd probably learn all that htey could about us before they made contact which I'm sure we would do too if we were able to make it to another system with life on our level.

And becuase I always felt ET was pretty retarded for a space traveler.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru6_9FYoIRs

Then again maybe he's smarter than we thought
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACpkyiVFBok

[6doublefive321]

6doublefive321 says they did.

There is a significant difference between the original novels and the prequels. In the original novels, Herbert left it very vague as to how the travel worked, just that it did and that it required a navigator or a computer (computers / artificial minds were banned). In the prequels, the authors elaborated more with the Holtzman engines (which Holtzman didn't perfect). I may have misspoke about relativistic speeds, but nowhere in the original novels is "folding space" brought up. That term, I think, was invented by Lynch in his adaption of the original Dune novel. Lynch fucked up a lot of concepts from the novel which are commonly mistaken as original concepts. The whole "sound as a weapon" was the most ludicrous.

In the original novels, there were references made to "flying through stars and exploding" if a navigator wasn't sufficiently under the influence of the spice. This assumption does not support the concept of "folding space", which would preclude the dangers of flying into anything. In the later novels, the danger of collisions were dropped for the danger of getting lost between physical universes, which is compatible with the idea of "folding space".

Wow. I need to get a life and go shopping for a new pocket protector.

[Papa_Complex]

You're right that they didn't actually mention the concept of folding space; they only hinted at how travel was accomplished. The "Weirding Module" thing made me want to puke. "The Weirding Way" was martial arts. Ornithopters are supposed to fly by flapping their 'wings' so then those wings are tiny little stubs, there's obviously been a screw-up.

[Rangerscott]

If aliens came to earth, some higher ups find a reason to convince everyone to kill them just like we have done for centuries.

[Dave]

If aliens came to earth, some higher ups find a reason to convince everyone to kill them just like we have done for centuries.

Even if they are hot catgirls

[Rangerscott]

Even if they are hot catgirls

Stop watching anime porn.

[EpyonXero]

Stop watching anime porn.

Tenchi Muyo ftw

[Papa_Complex]

Even if they are hot catgirls

Well they already killed the cold squidgirls:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0357585/

[Dave]

Stop watching anime porn.

Nope, can't :P

Well they already killed the cold squidgirls:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0357585/

The one chicks name is almost orly

[Papa_Complex]

The one chicks name is almost orly

One of the two hottest women that this country has produced.

[Avatard]

I was wondering what Wednesday Addams looked like all grown up. Who's the one on the left?

[Papa_Complex]

I was wondering what Wednesday Addams looked like all grown up. Who's the one on the left?

Emmanuelle Vaugier. (http://www.fanpop.com/spots/emmanuelle-vaugier/images/5990083/title/emmanuelle-maxim-photo)

[Flexin]

Emmanuelle Vaugier. (http://www.fanpop.com/spots/emmanuelle-vaugier/images/5990083/title/emmanuelle-maxim-photo)



:dribble:

James

[Avatard]

Emmanuelle Vaugier. (http://www.fanpop.com/spots/emmanuelle-vaugier/images/5990083/title/emmanuelle-maxim-photo)

Screendoor; hurricane.

:drool:

[dReWpY]

http://a.imageshack.us/img687/4282/whatwhat.gif[