Camera Thread- Attn Ebbs, PC, etc....

[Amber Lamps]

Basically, Dell has the Sony A330 for $400 and our local Best Buy has the 300mm lens for $150 open box which makes the entire kit, camera with a 18-55mm lens and a 70-300 mm lens $550... It sounds like a great deal on a decent camera for someone like me who can almost settle for the 5M I get from my phone.:lol:

Opinions?

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665887570

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Digital_SLR/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A2867115

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665345645

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+75-300mm+f/4.5-5.6+Super-Telephoto+Zoom+Lens/7909196.p?id=1149207366234&skuId=7909196

I think the lenses are slightly different but this should give you all a decent idea of what I'm looking at, thanks in advance.

[Papa_Complex]

A friend of mine is a Sony A700 user and is generally happy with it. The A330 has built in image stabilization, which is good when you're taking shots in low light, but will cause blur if you don't forget to turn it off when shooting moving subjects. That's just a FYI. It also has an anti-dust system which, while not as good as the Olympus system ( ;) ) is still better than not having one. Overall it's a pretty nice camera. You'll want another lens or two though.

If this is an "open box" then it might be a demo model. Odds are that it's had the lens off a fair bit, possibly while on display, so it may have a serious dust problem despite having the anti-dust system. If you do buy it, you'll likely want to have it professionally cleaned. You'll certainly want to take a look at the mirror (don't touch!), to make sure that it isn't gunked up.

[Mr Lefty]

Not a bad deal.. that's what I had with my first camera (though Canon) the 18-55 and 70-300.

it all depends on what your trying to do. the Sony camera a friend had (can't remember what model) was damn impressive with the anti-shake that's built into the camera.

but I fell in love with Nikon when I used my friends D200 (ended up buying the D300)

you may tire of switching lenses (something that annoyed me with the Cannon) but there are options... Nikon makes a 18-200 mm super zoom... and I know Tamron makes a 18-270mm...

the only problem I see... is the availability of lenses... if you decide to buy more... I don't know that anyone besides Sony makes ones that will fit. Sony's lenses seem to be reasonably priced until you get into the Carl Zeiss lenses... $1500+


if your looking for something to just fuck around with... but have more options than a point and shoot.... I'd say check out the Olympus Pen... or Panasonic Lumix's

[Papa_Complex]

Focus speed with the PENs isn't up to even entry level DSLR standards yet. I know. I've got a E-P2. The Panasonic Micro Four-Thirds cameras are a little faster. I'd go DSLR if even thinking about doing some action shots.

[Mr Lefty]

Focus speed with the PENs isn't up to even entry level DSLR standards yet. I know. I've got a E-P2. The Panasonic Micro Four-Thirds cameras are a little faster. I'd go DSLR if even thinking about doing some action shots.

true... but his comments on liking the 5mp in his phone... made me think he'd want something a bit more compact.


to be honest... I have to plan to take my D300 anywhere to take pics... I can't just throw it in a pocket and have it handy for those "hey check that out" moments.

I just bought a Canon Powershot SX210is for that... has full manual mode but will still fit in my pocket. not DSLR standards by any means... but any camera is better than none.

but yeah Tig, er... Amber if your looking for something to take action shots... this is a decent deal.

you can also check out used cameras... sometimes you can get good prices on camera's with good lenses

[goof2]

I would be a bit wary of the lens especially if, as Papa mentioned, it was a demo model on the floor. In between dust, drops, and abuse those lenses take every day it may never work right. That being said, make sure you know what model the lens is. If it is the 75-300 you linked to at bestbuy's website it probably isn't worth it since new it is only $100 more expensive. For $50 more than the open box lens you could get a new Sony 55-200 lens instead. If it is the 70-300 lens you linked to at Sony's website it could be a very nice deal. That lens sells for a lot more new and as long it is not all messed up I would snap it up.

[Kaneman]

Yea there's no way I'd buy a demo camera. I don't even think a professional cleaning would get it all cleaned out.

That said all my cameras have always been Nikons so I can't speak outside of that. The only time I hardly get mine out anymore is for professional gigs. By and large I use the camera on my Incredible.

[Amber Lamps]

Thanks guys!!! Well, the camera wasn't open box, just the lens but that doesn't matter because I got the camera, with a 18-55 mm and the 75-300 mm (brand new) and the 2 year black tie warranty-including accidental damage for $600. Not a bad deal at all! best Buy has a promotion that takes $100 off the lens as a bundle. They matched Dell's price on the camera and the warranty is $59.

Btw Brandon, I also have a Sony Cybershot W-150 for p&s work and my gf has a Sony HX-1 (I think). It's a p&s that takes lens... FWIW Minolta lenses work on this camera as well.

[Mr Lefty]

Nice! FWIW... the black tie warrenties through best buy are fucking AWESOME! I know two people (one is my brother) who have broken their camera's (brothers fell out of his truck at 25mph wheeling) took it in... they gave them what they paid for it in credit... and both upgraded. my brothers camera was 2 years old at the time he did this. no questions asked...

makes me wish i bought my D300 from them... could upgrade to a D700 when I break it... lol

[Lamnidae]

Thanks guys!!! Well, the camera wasn't open box, just the lens but that doesn't matter because I got the camera, with a 18-55 mm and the 75-300 mm (brand new) and the 2 year black tie warranty-including accidental damage for $600. Not a bad deal at all! best Buy has a promotion that takes $100 off the lens as a bundle. They matched Dell's price on the camera and the warranty is $59.

Btw Brandon, I also have a Sony Cybershot W-150 for p&s work and my gf has a Sony HX-1 (I think). It's a p&s that takes lens... FWIW Minolta lenses work on this camera as well.

I couldn't say that you made a bad decision when it comes to the camera. I agree with the earlier statement that I would not buy a "demo" camera, I'm just too finicky, but the lense.... yeah you could get away with.

I had the Cybershot W-150 for the wife, great little P/S.


Good luck with your DSLR adventures.



makes me wish i bought my D300 from them... could upgrade to a D700 when I break it... lol

Do Eeet. Break that mopho and get the upgrade.

[Mr Lefty]

I couldn't say that you made a bad decision when it comes to the camera. I agree with the earlier statement that I would not buy a "demo" camera, I'm just too finicky, but the lense.... yeah you could get away with.

I had the Cybershot W-150 for the wife, great little P/S.


Good luck with your DSLR adventures.



Do Eeet. Break that mopho and get the upgrade.
you missed the part where I said I wish I had... or hell yes... I'd be rock'n the D700 Full Frame goodness

[goof2]

you missed the part where I said I wish I had... or hell yes... I'd be rock'n the D700 Full Frame goodness

At the rate things are going just hold off for a few years. By that time the $1,000 camera bodies should be sporting full frame 20+mp sensors. I have a Canon body and while they are cheaper, I'm staying away from their EF-S mount lenses because they aren't compatible with full frame sensors.

[Mr Lefty]

At the rate things are going just hold off for a few years. By that time the $1,000 camera bodies should be sporting full frame 20+mp sensors. I have a Canon body and while they are cheaper, I'm staying away from their EF-S mount lenses because they aren't compatible with full frame sensors.
the problem with 20+ MP is that the sensors are only so big... so as you cram more and more MP onto them... the actual quality... degrades.

I don't think they can do more than 20-21 with out compromising image quality.


but I think if they're smart... they'll keep the FX (full frame) sensors out of the cheap camera's... helps keep the price up...

[Papa_Complex]

Then there's something that most people don't consider; the resolving power of the lens. I'd wager than most decent quality lenses don't resolve past 16-18 MPix, so anything above that just gives you a larger file, not a better one. I've been told that the best lens in my case can't resolve past 20 or 22 MPix.

[Mr Lefty]

Then there's something that most people don't consider; the resolving power of the lens. I'd wager than most decent quality lenses don't resolve past 16-18 MPix, so anything above that just gives you a larger file, not a better one. I've been told that the best lens in my case can't resolve past 20 or 22 MPix.

very true.


as with everything there are limitations. the faster technology grows, the faster we reach them. however, new technology can surpass them, but that drives prices up again.

[goof2]

the problem with 20+ MP is that the sensors are only so big... so as you cram more and more MP onto them... the actual quality... degrades.

I don't think they can do more than 20-21 with out compromising image quality.


but I think if they're smart... they'll keep the FX (full frame) sensors out of the cheap camera's... helps keep the price up...

True, but a full frame sensor with about the same pixel density as the 12MP APS-C sensor my current body has would be around 30MP.

Both Canon and Nikon have been moving full frame down their respective camera lines. They both already have full frame camera bodies in the sub $2,500 range. The nature of the typical customer for DSLRs is to look at the MP count from generation to generation. If this trend continues the lower end cameras will have to move full frame to effectively use the increased pixels consumers will want. A Canon 7D is already at 18MP. If Canon wants to improve that I suspect they will have to move to a full frame sensor.

[goof2]

Then there's something that most people don't consider; the resolving power of the lens. I'd wager than most decent quality lenses don't resolve past 16-18 MPix, so anything above that just gives you a larger file, not a better one. I've been told that the best lens in my case can't resolve past 20 or 22 MPix.

I sort of understand the limitations of lens resolution in abstract but don't really understand how it works. I'm not trying to quiz you or anything but I do have a question. Are resolution limits for lenses absolute? To expand, say I have a Canon EF lens (they work with both full frame and APS-C camera bodies) does that resolution limit for the lens stay the same or would it drop since the usable field of vision has been reduced?

[Papa_Complex]

I sort of understand the limitations of lens resolution in abstract but don't really understand how it works. I'm not trying to quiz you or anything but I do have a question. Are resolution limits for lenses absolute? To expand, say I have a Canon EF lens (they work with both full frame and APS-C camera bodies) does that resolution limit for the lens stay the same or would it drop since the usable field of vision has been reduced?

That's a very good question. The ultimate resolution depends on the total light taken in and the quality of the optics. Less light, less to work with.

[Amber Lamps]

That's a very good question. The ultimate resolution depends on the total light taken in and the quality of the optics. Less light, less to work with.

This is sort of what I was trying to explain to my gf at the store... Because the Sony line only uses a 55mm lens it suffers in this dept verses some of the other cameras in this "zone" BUT again because of our limited use of the camera, I'm sure that it will be sufficient for our needs.

[Papa_Complex]

This is sort of what I was trying to explain to my gf at the store... Because the Sony line only uses a 55mm lens it suffers in this dept verses some of the other cameras in this "zone" BUT again because of our limited use of the camera, I'm sure that it will be sufficient for our needs.

The light path in Olympus cameras is smaller than in other manufacturers, because of the 50% crop factor, and yet the lenses generally test as excellent quality. It's only an indicator; not a conclusion.

[Mr Lefty]

True, but a full frame sensor with about the same pixel density as the 12MP APS-C sensor my current body has would be around 30MP.

Both Canon and Nikon have been moving full frame down their respective camera lines. They both already have full frame camera bodies in the sub $2,500 range. The nature of the typical customer for DSLRs is to look at the MP count from generation to generation. If this trend continues the lower end cameras will have to move full frame to effectively use the increased pixels consumers will want. A Canon 7D is already at 18MP. If Canon wants to improve that I suspect they will have to move to a full frame sensor.

Nikon's D700 is their ENTRY (if you can call it entry at that level) Full Frame camera... it was (last time I checked) $2,800. Did I miss one? what's Canons?
Yeah Canon's 7D is at 18... their Flag ship the EOS-1Ds Mark III is 21... I just doubt they'll be getting much bigger... or at least... the growth will slow quite a bit.
and they're not going to push top of the line features down until they can find new features to take their place and justify (if prices like that can really be justified) the price.

one example is HD video. but they went a different way with this. rather than stuff the FX frame in to a cheaper camera... where most consumers wouldn't appreciate them... they put the HD Video in... a gadget that does entertain the random rich consumer.

[goof2]

Nikon's D700 is their ENTRY (if you can call it entry at that level) Full Frame camera... it was (last time I checked) $2,800. Did I miss one? what's Canons?
Yeah Canon's 7D is at 18... their Flag ship the EOS-1Ds Mark III is 21... I just doubt they'll be getting much bigger... or at least... the growth will slow quite a bit.
and they're not going to push top of the line features down until they can find new features to take their place and justify (if prices like that can really be justified) the price.

one example is HD video. but they went a different way with this. rather than stuff the FX frame in to a cheaper camera... where most consumers wouldn't appreciate them... they put the HD Video in... a gadget that does entertain the random rich consumer.

The D700 is currently just under $2,400 at B&H and Canon has the 5D Mark II with a 21MP full frame sensor which is $2,500.

[goof2]

That's a very good question. The ultimate resolution depends on the total light taken in and the quality of the optics. Less light, less to work with.

Being able to take advantage of the wider field of view with a full frame sensor I would think there is more light being taken in. Using your earlier example of the best lens in your case (I'm assuming Olympus) not being able to resolve more than 20-22MP, I would think (but do not know) that would be an indication of the glass but only as a function of the light it can place on the sensor. Say you are the same lens on a full format sensor, which has roughly 4 times the area as a four thirds sensor, I would think the additional light from a wider FOV would increase the resolution the lens is capable of putting on the sensor.

[Papa_Complex]

Being able to take advantage of the wider field of view with a full frame sensor I would think there is more light being taken in. Using your earlier example of the best lens in your case (I'm assuming Olympus) not being able to resolve more than 20-22MP, I would think (but do not know) that would be an indication of the glass but only as a function of the light it can place on the sensor. Say you are the same lens on a full format sensor, which has roughly 4 times the area as a four thirds sensor, I would think the additional light from a wider FOV would increase the resolution the lens is capable of putting on the sensor.

The lens I'm talking about is the "Top Pro" model Olympus/Zuiko 35-100 F2.0. You won't find many lenses out there, that can match it.

Possibly, but not necessarily. One of the issues is what angle the light strikes the sensor. When Olympus created the Four-Thirds standard, this was one of their considerations. They weren't trapped by a 35mm film standard, but instead built it from the ground, up. Canon and Nikon based their digital efforts on their original 35mm platforms.

The wider the element, the steeper the angle that light hits the sensor from the outside. That creates a whole pile of physics issues, that need to be dealt with. For example if the light wells in the sensor are deep, then you'll find considerable drop-off in levels from the outer edge. Diffraction also becomes a significant limiting factor, the more that you have to bend the light.

[goof2]

The lens I'm talking about is the "Top Pro" model Olympus/Zuiko 35-100 F2.0. You won't find many lenses out there, that can match it.

Possibly, but not necessarily. One of the issues is what angle the light strikes the sensor. When Olympus created the Four-Thirds standard, this was one of their considerations. They weren't trapped by a 35mm film standard, but instead built it from the ground, up. Canon and Nikon based their digital efforts on their original 35mm platforms.

The wider the element, the steeper the angle that light hits the sensor from the outside. That creates a whole pile of physics issues, that need to be dealt with. For example if the light wells in the sensor are deep, then you'll find considerable drop-off in levels from the outer edge. Diffraction also becomes a significant limiting factor, the more that you have to bend the light.

I wouldn't think it would be a direct ratio based on sensor size but it seems logical to me that there would be some improvement. With all the stuff going on in a lens I couldn't guess what that improvement would be though. Again, this is just based on my thoughts with nothing to back it up. My understanding of the inner workings of a DSLR is not far beyond just enough to know there aren't little fairies looking out the lens and drawing what they see on the sensor.:lol:

[Mr Lefty]

I wouldn't think it would be a direct ratio based on sensor size but it seems logical to me that there would be some improvement. With all the stuff going on in a lens I couldn't guess what that improvement would be though. Again, this is just based on my thoughts with nothing to back it up. My understanding of the inner workings of a DSLR is not far beyond just enough to know there aren't little fairies looking out the lens and drawing what they see on the sensor.:lol:
:rofl: that's funny shit!





everyone knows they're Gnomes

[Papa_Complex]

It had me looking for a picture of the Flinstone Polaroid camera. You know, the one with the bird, with a chisel :lol:

[goof2]

:rofl: that's funny shit!





everyone knows they're Gnomes

I thought all the caps that came with my camera and lenses were to keep dust out. Now I know they are to keep the gnomes in. Thanks for enlightening me.:lol:

[Mr Lefty]

I thought all the caps that came with my camera and lenses were to keep dust out. Now I know they are to keep the gnomes in. Thanks for enlightening me.:lol:

that's my purpose on this earth... to enlighten others to the existence and usefulness of Gnomes...



That and invent hands free toilet paper... but I'm a little behind schedule on that one... damn Gnomes are no help in that regard

[Amber Lamps]

that's my purpose on this earth... to enlighten others to the existence and usefulness of Gnomes...



That and invent hands free toilet paper... but I'm a little behind schedule on that one... damn Gnomes are no help in that regard

It's called the Bodet... aka pulsating showerhead on a hose...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet

[Mr Lefty]

It's called the Bodet... aka pulsating showerhead on a hose...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet

god damn it! my purpose was stolen!

[Papa_Complex]

It's called the Bodet... aka pulsating showerhead on a hose...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet

That's a BIDET.

"It's for warshing yer backside."

[Trip]

Yeah Canon's 7D is at 18...

one example is HD video. but they went a different way with this. rather than stuff the FX frame in to a cheaper camera... where most consumers wouldn't appreciate them... they put the HD Video in... a gadget that does entertain the random rich consumer.

That's what shot the fiddy video in 1080p

[askmrjesus]

That's a BIDET.

"It's for warshing yer backside."

The Bodet is it's redneck cousin.

JC