arrested for anti-obama sign

[t-homo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppBZM88mHvQ&feature=player_embedded

[Particle Man]

Don't tase me, bro!

[the chi]

Even if I agree with the guy, he needs to go about it better. Too antagonistic. Did it really take 2 300lb men to lay on him??

[Avatard]

Free speech is free speech. It includes stupid speech, it even includes offensive speech.

That 300# fat big piece of shit coward put all his weight on that old man's shoulder.

If I was there, he'd have gotten a kick in the face, and I'd be the poor old man's fucking cellmate, even though I couldn't disagree with his position more.

:shrug:

Disgusting. I can't believe no one came to his defense.

[101lifts2]

I'd sue the security people myself. The guy did nothing wrong...and what are the cops going to charge this guy with anyway? Holding an Anti-Obama sign? WTF

This is def. gonna hit Fox News...can't wait.

Fucking pigs.

[dReWpY]

that pisses me off, thats anti american flat out

[pauldun170]

Not enough information.
Video starts off with guy screaming.
Was he screaming at other people prior? Holding the sign and protesting is one thing, screaming at random people is another.

This "whatever it is" has private security.
Doesn't it mean its a privately sanctioned fair or something?
If the organizers have paid for use of the land and have hired private security doesn't it mean they have the right to control who gets to stay and who gets to go?

I'm all for free speech, but if the organizers of a private event want you out because you are being an ass then why shouldn't they have the right to escort you to the area that they are not paying for?

[pauldun170]

Sidney Hill is familiar to local residents as the gentleman who spends most of his days on the corner of the Palmer-Wasilla and Glenn highways with his large “Impeach Obama” sign. When he brought that banner to the first day of the fair, he drew a crowd.
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2010/08/28/local_news/doc4c78500c40102107414412.txt



Fair officials say Sidney Hill drew complaints Thursday that he was disrupting fair entertainment.
http://newsminer.com/bookmark/9306842-Obama-protester-arrested-at-Alaska-State-Fair


Police eventually arrested the man and took him away after they discovered that Hill was carrying a loaded weapon in violation of fair rules. The fair’s Dean Phipps says the fairgrounds are private property, and visitors are subject to those rules.
http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-crime-state-fair-protester-arrest-082710,0,2668811.story


summary

“The part that’s missing from this and from the video is that people don’t start shooting video until (a situation) has progressed awhile,” Phipps said. “When (security) went over to talk to him, he’s an excitable guy, and you can see that in the video. It wasn’t a safe place to protest, it wasn’t an appropriate way to do it.”

Contrary to what many believe, the Alaska State Fairgrounds is private property and bringing firearms into the grounds “is not allowed,” Remaley said. “It’s just like going to Carrs or Fred Meyer, it’s private property. ... They apparently wanted him to leave, he wasn’t going for that.”

On the video, Hill holds the large banner that reads “LaRouche Says Impeach Obama Now” and verbally confronts fair security.

“I have free damn speech, you leave me the hell alone,” he yells, adding at one point, “you’re a worthless hippy who doesn’t care about anything.”

As the crowd around him grows, Hill proclaims that, “We have free speech in America. I’m not backing down. ... I know my rights.”

When security personnel discovered Hill had a handgun on him, “that’s when the whole thing changed,” Phipps said. “All the supporters went away when they saw there was a gun.”

As Hill is on the ground, an off-duty Alaska State Trooper also intervened to help with crowd control, Phipps said.

“That’s when the off-duty trooper stepped in,” he said. “He felt that, at that point, it was a public safety issue because he was inciting people to come help him.”

For Valley residents, Hill is a familiar figure in downtown Palmer holding the same sign. For the most part, he’s a peaceful protester, Remaley said.

“We’ve had complaints about him yelling at people in traffic or encroaching on traffic with his sign,” he said. When Palmer police have responded, Hill has always complied and is within his rights to protest.

But at the Alaska State Fairgrounds, which is private property, the fair has the right to ask political protesters to leave. It’s like a public school, where school property is owned by a school district, he said. If Hill or anyone were to show up and start protesting, they’d either need permission or leave if asked.

[Avatard]

Not enough information.
Video starts off with guy screaming.
Was he screaming at other people prior? Holding the sign and protesting is one thing, screaming at random people is another.

This "whatever it is" has private security.
Doesn't it mean its a privately sanctioned fair or something?
If the organizers have paid for use of the land and have hired private security doesn't it mean they have the right to control who gets to stay and who gets to go?

I'm all for free speech, but if the organizers of a private event want you out because you are being an ass then why shouldn't they have the right to escort you to the area that they are not paying for?

Observe and report.

Private security.

What they did instead was assault a crippled war veteran, and senior citizen.

Again, if I was there, I would have been arrested too, but the fat fucking prick on top of the old man would have been down at least 4-5 teeth, and my foot would hurt.

[the chi]

I like how the news articles are all over the fact that he had a weapon, but we dont once see it, or him brandishing it in the video, yet they took him down supposedly because of said gun...

[Homeslice]

The video was cropped and edited (conveniently, I might add)

[Captain Morgan]

I like how the news articles are all over the fact that he had a weapon, but we dont once see it, or him brandishing it in the video, yet they took him down supposedly because of said gun...

I thought so, too, but, as Homeslice points out...

The video was cropped and edited (conveniently, I might add)

I could see that the video had been cut and restarted at a couple different points and wonder if that's where the gun was brought up. If he did indeed have a gun, I still think they went about it all wrong. Tell the man that he can either take the gun back out to his vehicle and come back in with his sign, or that he must leave simply because of the gun.

However, I'd also like to point out that this seems to have started simply because of his sign and his viewpoint and that the gun seems to be an afterthought, or more likely a "reasonable cause" to get the guy out of there.

[pauldun170]

Lets recap.

There is a fair.
Organizers pay to hold the fair.
Vendors pay to participate in the fair.
People pay to get into the fair.
Organizers pay for security for fair.
Man creates a disturbance at fair.
Security ask man to leave.
Man does not leave.
Security subdue man and police escort him out of fair.

interwebz section a- "He has free speech!!! Obama is taking away poor whiteman (WHO IS TROOP WE DOES SUPPORTZ) constitutional free speech rights!!!

interwebz section b- "He has right to bare arms!!! Obama is taking away poor whiteman (WHO IS TROOP WE DOES SUPPORTZ) constitutional gun rights!!!

interwebz section c- "Fat people trying to eat old man!!! How dare fat man not do the humane thing and Taze old man. "
interwebz sub section c.1 "Yeah fat man rent cop using body weight to control old man is evil...right thing to do is electrify"
interwebz sub section c.2 - "I hate fat people..I kick fat people ass if I was there "

interwebz section d - "Video was obviously edited therefore we should take what everyone says with a grain of salt. However what I believe happened is (insert scenario here) and the people who shot the video are obviously manipulating everyone to hide this FACT "

interwebz section e - "Is old man military and therefore must be forgiven for whatever they do"

interwebz section f - "is STATE LAND and is FREEDOM of SPEECH and is CONSTITUTIONAL and is CONSPIRACY and is MIXED CAPS and is SIGN is i didn't REALLY READ anything factual ABOUT THE EVENT I just LIKE TO get riled up by interwebz AND USE THE CAPS LOCK key to hide the fact that I am a IGNORANT DUMBSHIT"

[OneSickPsycho]

That pretty much sums it up... though I would add that the internet is full of angry people, looking for things to be angry about... and this thread proves it.

[Homeslice]

Lets interwebz section e - "Is old man military and therefore must be forgiven for whatever they do"
Yep

"He's a war veteran!"

And that is relevant how?

[101lifts2]

Sounds like most of the crowd agreed with him.

[Trip]

Awesome, we should get this dude to fight crazy old beard man and it would be internetz super win.

[Digifox]

You gotta be fucking kidding me!
Thats bullshit, And I'm with avatard on this i would have been arrested as well.
I don't care if he was shouting you don't treat a crippled old man like that.
If they wanted to cuff him, they could have atleast been nice about it and put him on that table and not sat his fat ass on the poor old guy....

Thinkin' for next years comfest(community feast which is public) I'll be out there like the old man....though I'll probably get shot since we actually have cops on duty

[Avatard]

Yep

"He's a war veteran!"

And that is relevant how?



R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Just a little bit.

[pauldun170]

LOL

Are you guys even watching the same video?
No one was slammed to the ground.
They weren't overly rough with him. They start forcibly escorting after who knows how long talking to the guy. They have him under the arm pits and start walking him out. The guy resists, screaming...going limp in the legs.
The guy wraps his legs around the security guards legs continuing to scream at the top of his lungs. The guy starts goig ahhhh!! ahhh!!! as if he is in pain and they let off and lower him to the ground. They made the decision to just secure the guy. The big guy doesn't slam him. He puts body weight on him while his partner in the back is either trying to get his hands to cough him or finds the gun (at this point when he is on the the ground would probably have been the point when they found that the screaming crazy guy has a gun on him). Either way at 4:40 you see a guard walk away with the gun.

Considering the situation I think the guards handled it well.

[Homeslice]

once again pauldun delivers the investigative ownage

[Avatard]

LOL

Are you guys even watching the same video?
No one was slammed to the ground.
They weren't overly rough with him. They start forcibly escorting after who knows how long talking to the guy. They have him under the arm pits and start walking him out. The guy resists, screaming...going limp in the legs.
The guy wraps his legs around the security guards legs continuing to scream at the top of his lungs. The guy starts goig ahhhh!! ahhh!!! as if he is in pain and they let off and lower him to the ground. They made the decision to just secure the guy. The big guy doesn't slam him. He puts body weight on him while his partner in the back is either trying to get his hands to cough him or finds the gun (at this point when he is on the the ground would probably have been the point when they found that the screaming crazy guy has a gun on him). Either way at 4:40 you see a guard walk away with the gun.

Considering the situation I think the guards handled it well.

I don't. Fat fuck put undue amounts of weight on the old man's shoulder.

He's a pig, and I'd have kicked him in the face as hard as I could have.

[Rangerscott]

So they're charging him with a bunch of bullshit cause if they were to see that they were wrong, they know they would lose a lawsuit. I guess they're hoping he's found guilty and put in jail before he can counter sue?

[tallywacker]

Why isn't he allowed to carry a gun?

[Avatard]

Apparently, you're allowed to carry a gun, just not have an inflammatory opinion and carry one...

[Homeslice]

Can't carry a gun into the fair.

[Rangerscott]

So he can't display his non-liking of obama, but a bunch of weirdos can picket funerals. Yippie Ki Yeah Motherfuckers!

[tallywacker]

Can't carry a gun into the fair.

Just a court case away from that being null and void with judges around the country reaffirming 2nd amendment rights.

[anthonyk]

What does the 2nd amendment have to do with carrying on someone else's private property?

[tallywacker]

What does the 2nd amendment have to do with carrying on someone else's private property?

Where does in the 2nd amendment does it state "except on someone else property?" I carry everywhere.

[Homeslice]

Where does in the 2nd amendment does it state "except on someone else property?" I carry everywhere.

Doesn't stop someone from not allowing guns inside their house/restaurant/whatever.

[tallywacker]

Doesn't stop someone from not allowing guns inside their house/restaurant/whatever.

Needs to be posted. Plus most mass shootings happen in Gun-Free zones. It works so well...

[Rangerscott]

Posted or not, guns have legs.

[pauldun170]

The fair is on private property, owned by the non-profit Alaska State Fair Inc.
The organizers of the Fair charge an entrance fee.

His behavior (in the video) alone is justification enough to eject him from the fairgrounds.
It doesn't matter if he was sitting there quietly before hand or insulting everyone around him since we have no evidence. The fact is that he turned into an asshole when talking to Security, screaming, insulting passersby and creating a scene. He was ask to leave the fair by the property owners and he refused.
The Obama sign is irrelevant. He was creating a scene on private property.
Property owners reserve the right to ban guns. Its not illegal to carry at the fairgrounds but it is illegal to not leave when asked.

[pauldun170]

This guy is a well known nut job in the area who is regular seen protesting yet they let him in with his huge ass sign.
He spent some time at this fair with his huge ass sign.

So some people are saying that a well known protester carrying a huge ass sign was allowed into the Fair grounds and then thrown out because of his huge ass sign?

Me thinks he was thrown out for other reasons.

[tallywacker]

The fair is on private property, owned by the non-profit Alaska State Fair Inc.
The organizers of the Fair charge an entrance fee.

His behavior (in the video) alone is justification enough to eject him from the fairgrounds.
It doesn't matter if he was sitting there quietly before hand or insulting everyone around him since we have no evidence. The fact is that he turned into an asshole when talking to Security, screaming, insulting passersby and creating a scene. He was ask to leave the fair by the property owners and he refused.
The Obama sign is irrelevant. He was creating a scene on private property.
Property owners reserve the right to ban guns. Its not illegal to carry at the fairgrounds but it is illegal to not leave when asked.

Don't worry I totally agree with the fair, run by a private entity, to have the right to boot him out the door.

[Avatard]

They had the right to eject him. It was private property.

BUT, they are rent-a-cops. They don't have the right to assault him.

Observe, report...remember?

I smell lawsuit. If I was there, fat boy would be missing teeth, my foot would hurt, and I'd be in jail with that old fucking nutjob.

[pauldun170]

They had the right to eject him. It was private property.

BUT, they are rent-a-cops. They don't have the right to assault him.

Observe, report...remember?

I smell lawsuit. If I was there, fat boy would be missing teeth, my foot would hurt, and I'd be in jail with that old fucking nutjob.

Since the man committed a misdemeanor (Trespassing\disorderly conduct) for not leaving when asked the security guards were entitled by the state to make a citizens arrest which allows them to "subdue, control and transport the arrestee into the formal custody of the state."

I think that a civil case would need a special kind of jury in order him to win.

[Avatard]

Fat fuck used undue force. If he had just swept the old man's arm under, he could have subdued him far easier. What does fat fuck do? Perch all of his weight on an old man's arm and shoulder, and hope to cause permanent injury?

Coward. I'd have kicked his fat fucking face in.

[Rangerscott]

Now what if the sign was pro obama and the guy pulled his willy out?

[z06boy]

I agree with pauldun170 in this thread all the way. He is correct.

Oh and for the record...I DID NOT vote for Obama...don't care for Obama...and hope he loses in the next election. :idk:

I also would love to see the video of Avatard in action and of him flopping around like a fish after being tazed....getting a beat down...and going to jail. :lol

[Avatard]

I'm sure it would be amusing to you, but I'm pretty damn sure you could find some footage of a soldier dying for your right to speak free, if you looked online hard enough. Would that fill the need for ya?

Some people care enough about free speech to stand up for it. Some people care about their elders. Some people wouldn't stand up for anything.

:shrug:

[z06boy]

I'm sure it would be amusing to you, but I'm pretty damn sure you could find some footage of a soldier dying for your right to speak free, if you looked online hard enough. Would that fill the need for ya?

Some people care enough about free speech to stand up for it. Some people care about their elders. Some people wouldn't stand up for anything.

:shrug:

:rofl: Haven't been here in a few days and just saw this. WTF are you even talking about ? They were just doing their job and did not treat the guy bad imho. I just find it funny that you from behind your keyboard would just walk up and kick that guy in the teeth out of no where.

I call BS and bet you wouldn't do a fvckin' thing but stand around and b!tch about it but we don't know do we since neither of us were there.

I think you would be wrong for doing it IF you happen to have the balls to try it and YES I'd laugh at your azz if you got tazed. :idk:

Oh and by the way...I served 4 1/2 years in the United States Marine Corps how about you badazz ?

[Dnyce]

i would have been arrested as well.


damn, you called that one lol


Thinkin' for next years comfest(community feast which is public) I'll be out there like the old man....



doubt-ful...........

[z06boy]

damn, you called that one lol





doubt-ful...........

:lol:



I sure don't disagree with the guys message...I didn't vote for Obama but after a while his loud yelling gets old...it's disruptive and he needs to go. :idk:

[Papa_Complex]

The guy was loud and belligerent. You'll find a bit more on the story at the Alaska State Fair's website and on the Anchorage Press' website.

http://www.alaskastatefair.org/aboutus/media/pressrelease/2010/082710.html

Regarding the incident on the Alaska State Fair Fairgrounds 26 August 2010
Friday, August 27, 2010 at 9:50pm

Our concern is first and foremost the safety of our fairgoers, the families with their children who should be able to enjoy the fair without disturbance or potential danger.

We are in touch with the company with whom we have a contract for fair security to review what transpired. We are also in touch with the Palmer Police on this matter.

Because the fairgrounds is on private property, we reserve the right to remove someone from the premises who is creating a disruption or may pose a threat to the safety of others.

We welcome diverse viewpoints and have a structure in place at the Alaska State Fair that allows for peaceful discord and exchange at our vendor and organization booth area.

For additional details, see:

* http://frontiersman.com/articles/2010/08/27/local_news/doc4c78500c40102107414412.txt
* http://community.adn.com/adn/node/152921
* http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-crime-state-fair-protester-arrest-082710,0,2668811.story
* http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2010/08/31/opinion/editorials/doc4c7cad04d0bc5427008081.txt

http://www.anchoragepress.com/articles/2010/09/02/news/doc4c7ea1c9738f6090189303.txt

... But parsing those definitions, drawing lines in an area known to be gray, even murky, is something management at Alaska State Fair has long been accustomed to. They’ve even been sued, reportedly in the 1980s when a zealous State Fair board voted to deny Alaska Right to Life, Inc. a booth at the fair. The anti-abortion activists’ booth remains on the fairgrounds, but its message is much less graphic, and you no longer see t-shirts asking “Does your doctor kill babies?”

“The fair was involved in a lawsuit,” fair spokesman Dean Phipps says, adding that it was before he began working there. “The ruling at the time was that you can set any rules you want, as long as they apply to everyone.”

Phipps says Hill brought his banner in and unfurled it from a two-by-four board about eight feet long, then walked with the sign perpendicular across a trail about 15 feet wide. The effect on pedestrian traffic was immediate, Phipps says, and a fair employee approached Hill. (Phipps says a statement from the employee will be online soon at the fair’s website, which is also currently hosting a lively discussion about Hill, the fair’s security guards and free speech in general.) Phipps says the employee only wanted tell Hill about vendor rules. “He was verbally abusive, and basically kept going [along the trail],” he says.

“It’s not about free speech. We have free speech all over the fairgrounds,” Phipps says, adding that many political organizations have fair booths, and the fair has rules that restrict them to their booths, rather than pushing their message in the trails. “They’re all here. They are everywhere, and if they’ve got the vendor handbook they know the rules… Basically, the fairgoers have told us they don’t want to be interfered with,” he says.
....

*EDIT* "SIGNS AND ADVERTISING
A prominent identifying sign, professional in appearance, shall be posted at vendor's sole expense, within the confines of the leased space. The height maximum is 14‟. Fair will not supply signage to outdoor vendor booths. No one shall display any form of political advertising, disseminate political propaganda unless the individual lease agreement permits such a privilege.

[Avatard]

:rofl: Haven't been here in a few days and just saw this. WTF are you even talking about ? They were just doing their job and did not treat the guy bad imho. I just find it funny that you from behind your keyboard would just walk up and kick that guy in the teeth out of no where.

I call BS and bet you wouldn't do a fvckin' thing but stand around and b!tch about it but we don't know do we since neither of us were there.

I think you would be wrong for doing it IF you happen to have the balls to try it and YES I'd laugh at your azz if you got tazed. :idk:

Oh and by the way...I served 4 1/2 years in the United States Marine Corps how about you badazz ?

I don't give a fuck who you are, or what you've done. If I saw you roughing up an old man, you and me would have a problem.

Maybe you were raised different. I don't give a fuck.

[z06boy]

I don't give a fuck who you are, or what you've done. If I saw you roughing up an old man, you and me would have a problem.

Maybe you were raised different. I don't give a fuck.

...and I feel the same about you. They didn't really rough him up imho...we both have our opinions and we disagree.

I only mentioned the military because you made a dumbazz comment about watching a video about soldiers...I don't have to azzhat...I served and know what's it's all about.

Act like an azz and be disruptive...fine but when it gets old and it's time to leave and it's my job to make you leave well guess what...you're leaving one way or another and if some keyboard commando wants to jump in...well have at it and we'll see how that comes out too...no biggie. They didn't rough him up...they did their job.

I actually agree with what the old guy was saying...just not his method of delivery. :idk: