9/11 Conspiracy Nuts?

[Trip]

We got any here? Are you a LIHOP or MIHOP?

[the chi]

Maybe...but my lil tin hat that protects me from the aliens also told me not to talk to you...

[Rider]

If we do they're retarded fucking idiots.

[marko138]

Yes.

[Trip]

Are you a MIHOP or a LIHOP, marko?

[AquaPython]

i'm sorry i don't buy everything the gov't tells me as pure fact, hook, line and sinker.
I have my skepticism.

[Trip]

i'm sorry i don't buy everything the gov't tells me as pure fact, hook, line and sinker.
I have my skepticism.

I forgot to ask up front, will edit the first post, but are you a LIHOP or MIHOP?

[Dave]

Always amused me that gw was supposedly so inept he couldn't wipe his own ass but somehow he pulled off a massive attack on us citizens by his lonesome :lmao:

[AquaPython]

idk those acronyms.

[Trip]

Let it happen on purpose (knew about the terrorists and did nothing to stop them)
Made it happen on purpose (caused the events/demoed the buildings/no plane into the pentagon)

[LeeNetworX]

Where's BG?

[marko138]

Let it happen on purpose (knew about the terrorists and did nothing to stop them)
Made it happen on purpose (caused the events/demoed the buildings/no plane into the pentagon)
Both.

[defector]

Lihop

[Amber Lamps]

Most people that I've talked to have the same mentality as the Pearl Harbor nuts or LIHOP to use Trip's little acronym. You will never convince me that all the people that would have to be involved with such a plan would be able to keep their mouths shut. Also, bringing the President into it is ridiculous . Even if such a crazy plan were enacted, they wouldn't involve him. It would be some low/mid level types like Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc. People watch way too many movies like "the Long Kiss Goodnight" etc. Bad crap happens and there are evil people in the world. I'm sorry. The terrorists had a good, simple plan. Quite frankly, I'm honestly surprised that they never did it before. It's not a new idea - Kamakazis....

[Kaneman]

I guess I'm a fucking retard too, cause I don't buy the official story either.

[tommymac]

Most people that I've talked to have the same mentality as the Pearl Harbor nuts or LIHOP to use Trip's little acronym. You will never convince me that all the people that would have to be involved with such a plan would be able to keep their mouths shut. Also, bringing the President into it is ridiculous . Even if such a crazy plan were enacted, they wouldn't involve him. It would be some low/mid level types like Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc. People watch way too many movies like "the Long Kiss Goodnight" etc. Bad crap happens and there are evil people in the world. I'm sorry. The terrorists had a good, simple plan. Quite frankly, I'm honestly surprised that they never did it before. It's not a new idea - Kamakazis....

My guess is they had to starrt from the ground up with getting guys trained to fly these planes, then a little coordination to do it simultaneously.

Concept is prety simple esp for nuts like that who think its cool to die.

[Trip]

I guess I'm a fucking retard too, cause I don't buy the official story either.

Do you think they did it or just let it happen?

[Rider]

You guys need to lay off the mind altering drugs. It's making you paranoid. The only conspiracy was that the Muslims got together and decided to blow us up because we support Israel.

We need to cut all ties with Israel and things will be much better. We also need to disassociate ourselves with England until they stop backing Israel as well.

[Kaneman]

Do you think they did it or just let it happen?

I don't really have an opinion either way man, I'm just some dude from Texas that was 19 at the time.

But when I look at the whole picture, the event itself, the way it unfolded, the things the govt' have been coy about, the laws that have been passed in direct relation to 9/11, the freedoms lost, etc. etc. etc. It seems like a scheme.

You guys need to lay off the mind altering drugs. It's making you paranoid. The only conspiracy was that the Muslims got together and decided to blow us up because we support Israel.

We need to cut all ties with Israel and things will be much better. We also need to disassociate ourselves with England until they stop backing Israel as well.

That's right dude, all those who don't buy the government's whole story eat shrooms in their Frosted Flakes every morning. Very intelligent observation.

[Amber Lamps]

I guess I'm a fucking retard too, cause I don't buy the official story either.

There's a surprise....



Listen, I'm not stupid enough to believe whatever the government tells me but that doesn't mean that they let it happen. I guess Clinton was in on it too since he allowed Bin Laden to go free right? To say that the gov't is inept and ate trying to cover up their mistakes and water down their culpability....okay I'm with you. To say that they allowed three planes to be hijacked, all that damage, and all those people to be killed, some of which were VIPs, just so they could start a war with Iraq... Well, it just proves that there is nothing new under the sun. There was a similar conspiracy theory about the sinking of the Lucitania.

[CasterTroy]

Where's BG?

:lol


I can't see why it's so hard to believe that holes were seen, and exploited in the security of both the airline industry and immigration, then coordinated between SCHEDULED flights that coincided at the same time to allow for all 4 planes to be in the air at the same time.
The idea behind an attack is to strike multiple areas at one time with the same tactics….that’s what happened.
2 planes were successful and 2 were not.
What’s so hard to believe?

If it wasn’t a plane that hit the pentagon, then WHERE did that plane go? WHERE did those people die? Did they up and disappear like a fart in the wind? Bermuda triangle? Where did THAT plane go if not into the side of the heavily fortified pentagon?
I did some CA (construct. Admin.) work there a few years ago fielding change order requests due to lack of prior knowledge of solid filled walls where we showed routing piping. That place is built to withstand more than what a commercial airliner could destroy….as evidence of what happened.

[the chi]

I dont buy it all...I know there were things the govt covered up after the fact...the news stories themselves changed more drastically than just more details would account for...as far as LIHOP or MIHOP, neither. As crooked as our govt could be, I cant possibly imagine they would allow such a tragedy at such cost simply to start a war.

[z06boy]

No I don't believe everything the government tells me but I'm definitely NOT a 9/11 conspiracy nut either. Some of the conspiracy theories actually make me :lol:.

[Kaneman]

There's a surprise....


Yea, yea, I know...stoner doesn't trust the govt...not exactly a news flash huh?

But I see all the things the Federal Government has lied feverishly about in the past, using insane lies, racism, propaganda campaigns, tugging on heart strings, thinking about the children, etc. etc. and I don't put anything past them.

A healthy dose of skepticism, IMO, is much better than simply believing everything they spoon feed you without question...which is what most people seem to do.

[Amber Lamps]

Yea, yea, I know...stoner doesn't trust the govt...not exactly a news flash huh?

But I see all the things the Federal Government has lied feverishly about in the past, using insane lies, racism, propaganda campaigns, tugging on heart strings, thinking about the children, etc. etc. and I don't put anything past them.

A healthy dose of skepticism, IMO, is much better than simply believing everything they spoon feed you without question...which is what most people seem to do.

Dude, it is a huge jump from "i don't believe everything they say" to "they allowed thousands of people to die to start a war". Again, even if some govt nut had some prior knowledge of the attack, that doesn't put Bush into the picture. The shear volume of people that would have to know something like that before it got to Bush is staggering... I guess you believe that they went out and killed everyone that knew about it as well... Yeesh....

[tommymac]

I guess you believe that they went out and killed everyone that knew about it as well... Yeesh....

it worked in goodfellas :lol:

[Kaneman]

Dude, it is a huge jump from "i don't believe everything they say" to "they allowed thousands of people to die to start a war". Again, even if some govt nut had some prior knowledge of the attack, that doesn't put Bush into the picture. The shear volume of people that would have to know something like that before it got to Bush is staggering... I guess you believe that they went out and killed everyone that knew about it as well... Yeesh....

I never said anything about Bush...but you did twice. You know something we don't know Tig? Are you implying that you yourself were complicit in the 9/11 attacks? Something fishy is going on here...

[z06boy]

it worked in goodfellas :lol:


Loved that movie.


Dude, it is a huge jump from "i don't believe everything they say" to "they allowed thousands of people to die to start a war". Again, even if some govt nut had some prior knowledge of the attack, that doesn't put Bush into the picture. The shear volume of people that would have to know something like that before it got to Bush is staggering.

True

[Amber Lamps]

BTW why don't people look for conspiracies when its something that fits there own political agenda? How about the idea that there was a conspiracy to discredit Bush and his administration to further the Democratic party's agenda... Heck, maybe the Libs planned the whole attack so they could make Bush look bad.... Maybe Obama , Pelosi, Biden, etc are actually Muslims taking over our country...

[VatorMan]

If this thread is an indication of the level of distrust with the current system-I'll ask one simple question.

Why do you keep sending these same assholes to DC ?

[Trip]

BTW why don't people look for conspiracies when its something that fits there own political agenda? How about the idea that there was a conspiracy to discredit Bush and his administration to further the Democratic party's agenda... Heck, maybe the Libs planned the whole attack so they could make Bush look bad.... Maybe Obama , Pelosi, Biden, etc are actually Muslims taking over our country...

For 9/11, something that complicated to fake a plane crash at the pentagon and secretly plant all those charges in all the WTC buildings, it would take years to plan and do successfully without it leaking to the public. That would mean Clinton would of had to been involved. Bush was a relatively new president, it would be like Obama doing it last september.

Both republicans and democrats would of had to plot it.

[the chi]

:lol: I'm not responsible for this mess. I voted for the old guy and the probably smarter than we give her credit for hot chick...

And even if they'd made it to office, I'd not have believed everything coming out of their mouths either. They are all just puppets for some other big agenda, and even if they have the best of intentions, think of all the restrictions to getting ANYTHING done around there.

I work for a small municipality and its like pulling teeth to get anything done. Dont believe everything your local govt tells you either. :wink:

[Amber Lamps]

I never said anything about Bush...but you did twice. You know something we don't know Tig? Are you implying that you yourself were complicit in the 9/11 attacks? Something fishy is going on here...

Sorry the original premise is that the govt/Bush either made or allowed 911 to happen so they could start a war with Iraq. I was under the impression that you were on the lihop team. My apologies.

[Kaneman]

If this thread is an indication of the level of distrust with the current system-I'll ask one simple question.

Why do you keep sending these same assholes to DC ?

This whole notion relies on the premise that the average person actually has some sort of say what goes on in "DC" And that's just not the case.

[z06boy]

:lol: I'm not responsible for this mess. I voted for the old guy and the probably smarter than we give her credit for hot chick...

And even if they'd made it to office, I'd not have believed everything coming out of their mouths either. They are all just puppets for some other big agenda, and even if they have the best of intentions, think of all the restrictions to getting ANYTHING done around there.

I work for a small municipality and its like pulling teeth to get anything done. Dont believe everything ANYONE tells you either. :wink:

True and I voted for them as well and didn't feel too warm and fuzzy about them either. :idk: I honestly can't think of ANY politician at the moment that I would want running our country...hopefully that will change by election time.

[ontwo]

Lots of good points in this thread. As for me, I don't know. I do have one thing that keeps bothering me...

WTC #7 - It collapsed late in the afternoon of 9/11 right into its footprint. I think that building was a controlled demolition that would take lots of prep work to pull off so cleanly. So the question that keeps bugging me is, "If they are lying about WTC7, what else do we not know?"

[Trip]

Lots of good points in this thread. As for me, I don't know. I do have one thing that keeps bothering me...

WTC #7 - It collapsed late in the afternoon of 9/11 right into its footprint. I think that building was a controlled demolition that would take lots of prep work to pull off so cleanly. So the question that keeps bugging me is, "If they are lying about WTC7, what else do we not know?"

WTC 7 was on fire all day. It had several diesel run generators for power backup for computer servers that had fuel lines running throughout the building that fed the fire continuously without any sort of fire fighting. It was declared unfightable and they pretty much just let it burn. The way the building was designed so it had just a couple of main trusses that supported the building. The fire from the fuel pipelines was situated such that these trusses were heated all day to the point that they could no longer carry the load and thus the building fell. No demo was involved with this building and the idiotic conspiracy theories did not look into engineering and fuel sources for the fire.

[CasterTroy]

WTC #7 - It collapsed late in the afternoon of 9/11 right into its footprint. I think that building was a controlled demolition that would take lots of prep work to pull off so cleanly. So the question that keeps bugging me is, "If they are lying about WTC7, what else do we not know?"

Once the fireproofing is knocked off....it takes both LOAD and TIME for the heat to eventually buckle the steel.

If all the steel is "cooking" at the same temperature, then all it takes is ONE beam/truss on the bearing point to fail to bring everything down in what would appear to be a very "controlled" manor.

[Smittie61984]

Always amused me that gw was supposedly so inept he couldn't wipe his own ass but somehow he pulled off a massive attack on us citizens by his lonesome :lmao:

We all know as 10000000^∞% fact that Bush was nothing more than a puppet to the Haliburton War Machine which is controlled by Dick Cheney AND Bin Laden. Also Dick Cheney was doing blow at WTC-7 and needed a way to cover his tracks so that he didn't get traced back to the dead gigalo midget he was anal raping while stealing kittens from children. Infact Dick Cheney meant to hit WTC-7 but because he let Bush fly all the planes, he missed and took out the main buildings. Luckily Rush Limbaugh ninjaed his way into WTC-7 and planted explosives all though the building which would cover up the dead gigalo midget who was doing blow while getting anal raped and sucking Enron CEO's dicks at the time.

[Dave]

We all know as 10000000^∞% fact that Bush was nothing more than a puppet to the Haliburton War Machine which is controlled by Dick Cheney AND Bin Laden. Also Dick Cheney was doing blow at WTC-7 and needed a way to cover his tracks so that he didn't get traced back to the dead gigalo midget he was anal raping while stealing kittens from children. Infact Dick Cheney meant to hit WTC-7 but because he let Bush fly all the planes, he missed and took out the main buildings. Luckily Rush Limbaugh ninjaed his way into WTC-7 and planted explosives all though the building which would cover up the dead gigalo midget who was doing blow while getting anal raped and sucking Enron CEO's dicks at the time.

I'm gonna give you a 7/10 on this effort. You coulda worked in sarah palin and ann coulter hiding the explosives in bristol palin's womb

[AquaPython]

anyone see loose change?
lots of interesting and aggravating points.

[Trip]

anyone see loose change?
lots of interesting and aggravating points.

you need to watch the history channel conspiracy show with that guy on it. I thought he got pwned.

[Smittie61984]

I'm gonna give you a 7/10 on this effort. You coulda worked in sarah palin and ann coulter hiding the explosives in bristol palin's womb

I was trying to be kind to the Palins because I'd like to place an explosion into Sarah Palin's womb.

(note to FBI and CIA agents who are now reading this forum. The above is a sexual joke)

[Trip]

I was trying to be kind to the Palins because I'd like to place an explosion into Sarah Palin's womb.

(note to FBI and CIA agents who are now reading this forum. The above is a sexual joke)

I'd rather just duct tape her mouth, put her in a school girl outfit and keep her around til she gets too wrinkly.

[AquaPython]

you need to watch the history channel conspiracy show with that guy on it. I thought he got pwned.

i usually watch the H channel, but now sure i saw this show. I did see one several weeks ago that was themed like "9/11 :debunking the myths"

on that show, I thought they may have heavily discredited one or two outlandish theories, but provided nothing remotely substantial to debunk anything else.

some things that have bothered me from the beginning is :


the lack of video of the "crash" into the pentagon
the small amount of damage done to the pentagon
the immediate clean up and removal of all debris, not allowed to be inspected @ pent.
The complete utter lack of debris and tiny ditch in pennsylvania. (look at footage from other downed airliners.)
The immediate removal of almost all steel from WTC

from loose change:


why was there so much confusion because of test manuevers already being conducted for "randomly" almost the exact same situation of hijackings?
why did the structures collapse from fire? no steel structured building has ever collapsed from a structure fire in history... until now, several just did.
etc...

[Kaneman]

I'm all about the Pentagon crash. Just show the fucking video of a plane clearly hitting the Pentagon. That's all. You will never be able to convince me that there is no video out there of a jet hitting one of the most secure and surveillanced buildings on earth. If people have questions, why would you not show the video?

[AquaPython]

There is video, the gov't admitted they have it and confiscated it.

[Trip]

i usually watch the H channel, but now sure i saw this show. I did see one several weeks ago that was themed like "9/11 :debunking the myths"

on that show, I thought they may have heavily discredited one or two outlandish theories, but provided nothing remotely substantial to debunk anything else.

some things that have bothered me from the beginning is :


the lack of video of the "crash" into the pentagon
the small amount of damage done to the pentagon
the immediate clean up and removal of all debris, not allowed to be inspected @ pent.
The complete utter lack of debris and tiny ditch in pennsylvania. (look at footage from other downed airliners.)

from loose change:


why was there so much confusion because of test manuevers already being conducted for "randomly" almost the exact same situation of hijackings?
why did the structures collapse from fire? no steel structured building has ever collapsed from a structure fire in history... until now, several just did.
etc...


Attacking the Flight 93 crash is one of the dumbest theories in the pot. They recovered and identified bodies and had a ton of evidence it was 93. I don't know why people tried to spread the rumor there was no bodies, but coroners actually identified a bunch of bodies using finger print evidence. This is one of the dumbest theories people tried to pass off. It was a plane that was run straight into the ground at high speed. It wasn't a plane that unsuccessfully maintained flight. It will look different when a plane is rammed into the ground vs one that went down due to failure.

The pentagon not releasing all the video is stupid. There were thousands of eye witnesses to it. They selectively interview on youtube videos. There is enough people that saw it where it doesn't matter. The pentagon didn't take as much damage as it should have because the plane hit the ground first and then smashed into the pentagon. The damage done to a very structurally secure building was still massive.

Fire burning hot and long enough will take down a steel building. Especially when fuel feeds these fires. The buildings surrounding the WTC took massive impact from the big collapses.

[Amber Lamps]

WTC 7 was on fire all day. It had several diesel run generators for power backup for computer servers that had fuel lines running throughout the building that fed the fire continuously without any sort of fire fighting. It was declared unfightable and they pretty much just let it burn. The way the building was designed so it had just a couple of main trusses that supported the building. The fire from the fuel pipelines was situated such that these trusses were heated all day to the point that they could no longer carry the load and thus the building fell. No demo was involved with this building and the idiotic conspiracy theories did not look into engineering and fuel sources for the fire.

And that's the thing about these theories, they don't require ANY fact... Someone that knows nothing about engineering, building principles, etc looks at some film and says, "that looks fishy" and bingo, it's the truth. Come on people, really? Do you REALLY believe that we would sacrifice some of our most coveted and iconic structures, thousands of our most important and productive citizens, potentially sacrifice most of our military leaders, billions upon billions of dollars, not to mention whatever the fourth plane was targeting, just so we could go to war with some piss ant country like Iraq...seriously? Do you REALLY think that was the BEST plan they could think of to get rid of Saddam?

[defector]

I don't know if I qualify as a conspiracy nut or not, but I believe one thing.
Somebody, somewhere, in the US Govt had to have some sort of info about this prior to 9/11.

Could it just not gotten to the "right people" in time to be thwarted?
Could they have thought the perpetrators actually incapable of completing the task?

[Mudpuppy]

you need to watch the history channel conspiracy show with that guy on it. I thought he got pwned.

all that show did was further make me question the conspiracies.. the so called experts looked like idiots if you ask me.. that was just more propaganda..

anyone see the jesse ventura conspiracy theory episode on 9/11? it's pretty interesting and raises a lot of questions.. and he actually talks to actual experts and witnesses not just some programmed idiot who falsified a report like the clowns on history channel..

i wasn't there, i wasn't involved so i really don't know what happened but there sure is a lot of questions that remain unanswered.. and just because you talk to the guy who did the report doesn't mean they are now answered - like self checking your own work? if you wrote a report would you admit you were wrong or you fabricated the truth? hell no.

[Mudpuppy]

I don't know if I qualify as a conspiracy nut or not, but I believe one thing.
Somebody, somewhere, in the US Govt had to have some sort of info about this prior to 9/11.

Could it just not gotten to the "right people" in time to be thwarted?
Could they have thought the perpetrators actually incapable of completing the task?

there was MASSIVE information out there warning of this and they ignored it (probably on purpose - reference pearl harbor and the event that led to vietnam)..

[Homeslice]

I believe the Pennsylvania plane might have been shot down, but that's the only "conspiracy" that I hold any stock in at this time.

However I will say that it still amazes me that relatively inexperienced pilots (in terms of actual airtime) were able to do what they did, and hit such small targets like the Pentagon at such high speed, without freaking out or changing their minds.

[t-homo]

I don't know if I qualify as a conspiracy nut or not, but I believe one thing.
Somebody, somewhere, in the US Govt had to have some sort of info about this prior to 9/11.

Could it just not gotten to the "right people" in time to be thwarted?
Could they have thought the perpetrators actually incapable of completing the task?

I'm sure they heard something about it, but how many other attacks have they heard something about that never happen?

[goof2]

What I don't understand about the whole "It wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon/It wasn't a plane crash in PA" thing is why would "they" (whoever they are) fake it? "They" already controlled 2 widebody airliners and flew them in to buildings in a very public manner. "They" can do that easily, but getting one more was too difficult? The easier option was to somehow secretly launch and fly a rather large missile through Washington, DC? For the PA crash the same concept of it being easier to get an airliner still stands, but more importantly why would "they" bother in the first place? I don't see that crash as the easiest way to serve any goal. Why go through the trouble of creating a fake crash scene (that nobody in the area apparently saw being created) for no reason?

For the "No steel structured building has collapsed from fire" deal, how many steel structured buildings have been subjected to a massive impact from 200 tons traveling at 500 mph while at the same time being doused from the inside with 20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel? Jet fuel burns hot enough for steel to loose 50% or more of its strength. What effect do you think that would have on an already severely damaged building?

[tommymac]

What I don't understand about the whole "It wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon/It wasn't a plane crash in PA" thing is why would "they" (whoever they are) fake it? "They" already controlled 2 widebody airliners and flew them in to buildings in a very public manner. "They" can do that easily, but getting one more was too difficult? The easier option was to somehow secretly launch and fly a rather large missile through Washington, DC? For the PA crash the same concept of it being easier to get an airliner still stands, but more importantly why would "they" bother in the first place? I don't see that crash as the easiest way to serve any goal. Why go through the trouble of creating a fake crash scene (that nobody in the area apparently saw being created) for no reason?

For the "No steel structured building has collapsed from fire" deal, how many steel structured buildings have been subjected to a massive impact from 200 tons traveling at 500 mph while at the same time being doused from the inside with 20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel? Jet fuel burns hot enough for steel to loose 50% or more of its strength. What effect do you think that would have on an already severely damaged building?

I may be wrong but I think the force of the impact of the jetliners knocked a lot of the fire proofing off and that contributed to helping weaken the steel leading to the collapse

[Evadd]

You guys need to lay off the mind altering drugs. It's making you paranoid. The only conspiracy was that the Muslims got together and decided to blow us up because we support Israel.

We need to cut all ties with Israel and things will be much better. We also need to disassociate ourselves with England until they stop backing Israel as well.
so, your solution is to just bend over and let the terrorists win? awesome.

[101lifts2]

We know the CIA informed the FBI back in 1998 that something of this magnitude was going to happen. Details were very light and the FBI did not act upon it. It was again pushed in 2000 and then in June 2001. I'm pretty sure certain people knew about it, but face the facts. The government is really nothing more than a money transfer scheme. They want money, but need to devise a clever scheme to pull it out of our pockets. What better way then to fuel up terrorism just so you can get a budget to fight it?

Some people in the government have had blood on their hands since 9/11...

[Trip]

We know the CIA informed the FBI back in 1998 that something of this magnitude was going to happen. Details were very light and the FBI did not act upon it. It was again pushed in 2000 and then in June 2001. I'm pretty sure certain people knew about it, but face the facts. The government is really nothing more than a money transfer scheme. They want money, but need to devise a clever scheme to pull it out of our pockets. What better way then to fuel up terrorism just so you can get a budget to fight it?

Some people in the government have had blood on their hands since 9/11...

The only conspiracy I can really get behind is at least incompetence or neglect by our government to protect us from these attacks, but I highly doubt they had anything to do with causing them.

The whole WTC 7 shit is just stupid. If they really wanted to take out paper and computer trails, there is the delete button and paper shredders. Why risk hard drives and paper being recovered in the debris...

[Amber Lamps]

We know the CIA informed the FBI back in 1998 that something of this magnitude was going to happen. Details were very light and the FBI did not act upon it. It was again pushed in 2000 and then in June 2001. I'm pretty sure certain people knew about it, but face the facts. The government is really nothing more than a money transfer scheme. They want money, but need to devise a clever scheme to pull it out of our pockets. What better way then to fuel up terrorism just so you can get a budget to fight it?

Some people in the government have had blood on their hands since 9/11...

Here's the thing, if you want to claim inept handling of the situation, I'm with you. If you want to claim that we spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives to drum up support for a bigger terrorism budget.... yea, sounds like the exact plot of "Long Kiss Goodnight"...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1643735/the_long_kiss_good_night_911_in_1996/

[AquaPython]

I have heard the rebuttals before.

The thing is, every two minutes someone gets on a media outlet or an internet forum and spouts on about how they know, or heard from some expert, about melting points of the steel they used, or how there is some sort of difference between a jumbo jet crash landing and one being aimed at the ground. Opinions keep popping up and they contradict the one prior.
My point is that there are inconsistencies with what we are given as fact, and what we are supposed to take as truth.

If the plane's force, and fuel is responsible for the weakening of the steel. Why did the buildings collapse from the top down? how does that account for the other (what 3?) steel structured buildings in the area such as WTC7 that "burned" down?
interesting that WTC7, contained a new suppository for many of the documents that would have been key to post 9/11 investigations, and that the building was totally evacuated that morning before the events unfolded, save for a handful of people that missed the memo.

[Trip]

If the plane's force, and fuel is responsible for the weakening of the steel. Why did the buildings collapse from the top down? how does that account for the other (what 3?) steel structured buildings in the area such as WTC7 that "burned" down?
interesting that WTC7, contained a new suppository for many of the documents that would have been key to post 9/11 investigations, and that the building was totally evacuated that morning before the events unfolded, save for a handful of people that missed the memo.

The two main towers collapsed due to force from the upper structure above the crash crushing the lower as it came down. That's easy to see in all the videos from that day.

Several buildings were destroyed by the massive amount of debris that fell on them. Such as the marriot. The first tower took a lot of it out and then the second tower finished the job.

WTC7 took damage which started several fires from the collapses. These fires were fed by diesel fuel lines that ran throughout the building that were damaged during the collapses. (The fuel lines were there for diesel generators for backup power sources for the servers and such) The building was built with only a few main trusses that supported the entire building. The fires weakened them and the building came down after many hours of fuel fed fire.

[Amber Lamps]

The only conspiracy I can really get behind is at least incompetence or neglect by our government to protect us from these attacks, but I highly doubt they had anything to do with causing them.

The whole WTC 7 shit is just stupid. If they really wanted to take out paper and computer trails, there is the delete button and paper shredders. Why risk hard drives and paper being recovered in the debris...

EMP+FIRE= no trace... then they just had to mind erase everyone that was at the crash site, media, rescue workers, police, witnesses, survivors, etc. No problem. I don't know, I'm starting to think that it never happened and was all fake, like the moon landing. It's all clear to me now.

[OneSickPsycho]

I stop the conspiracy train at the sheer number of people who would need to be involved to pull the majority of the theories off... Controlled demo of this magnitude requires a significant amount of planning and huge amounts of resources, including lots of people. You tellin' me that they paid off all these people? You tellin' me that if they did, nobody can find the money trail? You tellin' me that even if it was the most brilliant plan in the history of plans, and they managed to hide a ridiculously insane money trail, that one of these fuckers wouldn't decide to come forward after spending all their money on flat screens, 24" spinners, and hookers? It's just doesn't pass the sniff test...

[defector]

The only conspiracy I can really get behind is at least incompetence or neglect by our government to protect us from these attacks, but I highly doubt they had anything to do with causing them.


Agree 100%, but you only had LIHOP or MIHOP listed.
In my mind it is a bit of LIHOP.

[Amber Lamps]

you know what? I actually think that the govt faked the whole 911 disaster to cover up and draw attention away from the massive space ship that landed just outside of Area 51 carrying 100,000 aliens at the same time. The aliens need dry conditions and high heat to survive so we are clearing the Middle East for them. In return they are going to give us cures for AIDS, cancer, herpes, etc and an unlimited energy source that we won't unveil until the oil companies have completely sucked this planet dry of crude. They first made contact with Magic Johnson, cured him of AIDS and used him as a spokesman to further their goals.

[Trip]

Agree 100%, but you only had LIHOP or MIHOP listed.
In my mind it is a bit of LIHOP.

yeah I guess it could be a little LIHOP, i should make incompetence a selection though.

[Amber Lamps]

yeah I guess it could be a little LIHOP, i should make incompetence a selection though.

yea INCOMP gets my vote.

[Smittie61984]

yea INCOMP gets my vote.

Kind of curious since I didn't fly before 9/11. Would passengers have taken a threat seriously? Before then I'd suspect we'd get some terrorist, they'd hijack a plane, land in some fucked up country, then some fucker on a bike would come in and kick some ass then we'd all high-5 and go home.

http://www.cinema-suicide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/chuck-norris-delta-force.jpg

Before then we didn't ever expect to have planes fly into buildings did we?

[defector]

yeah I guess it could be a little LIHOP, i should make incompetence a selection though.

yea INCOMP gets my vote.

Yep.
In my mind incompetence is very similar to incapable. I believe the gubment is incompetent, and incapable.
Whereas LIHOP is more along the lines of unwilling. Which I also believe the gubment is, to a lesser extent.

[Homeslice]

you know what? I actually think that the govt faked the whole 911 disaster to cover up and draw attention away from the massive space ship that landed just outside of Area 51 carrying 100,000 aliens at the same time. The aliens need dry conditions and high heat to survive so we are clearing the Middle East for them. In return they are going to give us cures for AIDS, cancer, herpes, etc and an unlimited energy source that we won't unveil until the oil companies have completely sucked this planet dry of crude. They first made contact with Magic Johnson, cured him of AIDS and used him as a spokesman to further their goals.

Tight. I'm in line with this.

[shmike]

you know what? I actually think that the govt faked the whole 911 disaster to cover up and draw attention away from the massive space ship that landed just outside of Area 51 carrying 100,000 aliens at the same time. The aliens need dry conditions and high heat to survive so we are clearing the Middle East for them. In return they are going to give us cures for AIDS, cancer, herpes, etc and an unlimited energy source that we won't unveil until the oil companies have completely sucked this planet dry of crude. They first made contact with Magic Johnson, cured him of AIDS and used him as a spokesman to further their goals.


You know what's funny? I know you threw together the most off-the-wall and crazy situations you could think of to make that post.

And yet:

I have actually heard some theorists that believe in a scenario eerily similar to what you just described (like 95% of what you just said). Throw in a 2012 reference and something about chem-trails and you'd have it.

The craziest part is they actually believe it! :wtfru:

[Amber Lamps]

Kind of curious since I didn't fly before 9/11. Would passengers have taken a threat seriously? Before then I'd suspect we'd get some terrorist, they'd hijack a plane, land in some fucked up country, then some fucker on a bike would come in and kick some ass then we'd all high-5 and go home.

http://www.cinema-suicide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/chuck-norris-delta-force.jpg

Before then we didn't ever expect to have planes fly into buildings did we?

Nope.

[Amber Lamps]

You know what's funny? I know you threw together the most off-the-wall and crazy situations you could think of to make that post.

And yet:

I have actually heard some theorists that believe in a scenario eerily similar to what you just described (like 95% of what you just said). Throw in a 2012 reference and something about chem-trails and you'd have it.

The craziest part is they actually believe it! :wtfru:

nothing surprises me... the things that otherwise rational people are willing to believe are epic.

[Kaneman]

Before then we didn't ever expect to have planes fly into buildings did we?

Only those who read Tom Clancy novels I suppose. :lol:

[Homeslice]

You know what's funny? I know you threw together the most off-the-wall and crazy situations you could think of to make that post.

And yet:

I have actually heard some theorists that believe in a scenario eerily similar to what you just described (like 95% of what you just said). Throw in a 2012 reference and something about chem-trails and you'd have it.

The craziest part is they actually believe it! :wtfru:

He forgot to add the part about empty prison camps with inward-facing barbed wire that are popping up all around the country. These are going to be used to "intern" political prisoners and other inferior people, while the Bildenbergs, Free Masons, and other superior people who are conspiring with the aliens to create a one-world government.

[goof2]

Kind of curious since I didn't fly before 9/11. Would passengers have taken a threat seriously? Before then I'd suspect we'd get some terrorist, they'd hijack a plane, land in some fucked up country, then some fucker on a bike would come in and kick some ass then we'd all high-5 and go home.

http://www.cinema-suicide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/chuck-norris-delta-force.jpg

Before then we didn't ever expect to have planes fly into buildings did we?

No. Before 9/11 terrorists hijacked airliners for the people. The aircraft just happened to be a place with a lot of confined people that was difficult to attack. Terrorists tried essentially the same thing with a cruise ship and the Israeli Olympic team in Munich. Even with bombings like Pan-Am 103 the aircraft just happened to be something easily damaged by a small bomb that would kill a lot of people. 9/11 is the first hijacking I am aware of where the aircraft itself was the goal while the people aboard were incidental.

[Adeptus_Minor]

I don't know if I qualify as a conspiracy nut or not, but I believe one thing.
Somebody, somewhere, in the US Govt had to have some sort of info about this prior to 9/11.

Could it just not gotten to the "right people" in time to be thwarted?
Could they have thought the perpetrators actually incapable of completing the task?

This.

I suppose there has to be a third camp.
LIHDtGN - Let It Happen Due to Gross Negligence

As for where I stand on this issue, I think the real conspiracy is less about the event itself and more about how our government took advantage of the resulting fear, uncertainty, and outrage.
It's the best sort of conspiracy because it's the one that could be carried out right out in the open, and only the paranoid and 'unAmerican' would dare question the motives.

[101lifts2]

The only conspiracy I can really get behind is at least incompetence or neglect by our government to protect us from these attacks, but I highly doubt they had anything to do with causing them.

The whole WTC 7 shit is just stupid. If they really wanted to take out paper and computer trails, there is the delete button and paper shredders. Why risk hard drives and paper being recovered in the debris...

I don't think the government played any part in organizing the 9/11 attacks, rather some people in the CIA knew about it and did not stop it.

How do you explain going into IRAQ when 17 of the 19 highjackers were Saudis? You only need a reason..then you get the funding if you get my drift.

All governments contain large amounts of fraud because they are easy to hide behind combined with the fact that money transfer is always to be had when you have a large population to pool from.

[101lifts2]

nothing surprises me... the things that otherwise rational people are willing to believe are epic.

The Eygptians thousands of years ago had carvings in stone of spaceships when there were no airplanes. Just sayin...

[Amber Lamps]

The Eygptians thousands of years ago had carvings in stone of spaceships when there were no airplanes. Just sayin...

There are pictures that you and some others have interpreted as space ships... When you go back in time and talk to the carver and he tells you personally that they are pictures of space ships, then okay...until then...uhuh, yea right. Writers in this country depicted orbiting satellites before the first rocket was ever launched...so?

Da Vinci drew a picture of a helicopter before the balloon was invented...so?

[101lifts2]

There are pictures that you and some others have interpreted as space ships... When you go back in time and talk to the carver and he tells you personally that they are pictures of space ships, then okay...until then...uhuh, yea right. Writers in this country depicted orbiting satellites before the first rocket was ever launched...so?

Da Vinci drew a picture of a helicopter before the balloon was invented...so?

You can draw your own conclusions...but if the universe is infinitely large, then the possibility of another life form is not that unreasonable.

Also, the Egyptians drew the spaceships in the sky. along with clouds and the sun so the location was understood. Do you have to see everything with your own eyes to believe in something?

[Smittie61984]

The Eygptians thousands of years ago had carvings in stone of spaceships when there were no airplanes. Just sayin...

Obviously that was Bush coming back in time to plant the explosives in WTC-7

[Amber Lamps]

You can draw your own conclusions...but if the universe is infinitely large, then the possibility of another life form is not that unreasonable.

Also, the Egyptians drew the spaceships in the sky. along with clouds and the sun so the location was understood. Do you have to see everything with your own eyes to believe in something?

Bro, were there birds? Men have been dreaming of flying for thousands of years...

[Rider]

so, your solution is to just bend over and let the terrorists win? awesome.

No I never said that. We should kill them all quite frankly but we do cause a lot of our own problems with terrorists.

[karl_1052]

As crooked as our govt could be, I cant possibly imagine they would allow such a tragedy at such cost simply to start a war.

Such cost? 5-10,000 people is a drop in a bucket when you have a population of 360,000,000 people. It is less than 1% of 1%.

IF there was a conspiracy, that is a tiny amount of people to get a country to accept a war and subsequent erosion of rights.

[Particle Man]

Crap, now I want pancakes.


Only those who read Tom Clancy novels I suppose. :lol:

Funny, I just finished re-reading Debt of Honor and I'm re-reading Executive Orders right now :eek: