Brock Lesnar Vs. The Undertaker

[Kaneman]

This is after the fight last night...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjHtxPew5Os

[Tmall]

Lol. "Wanna do it?"

[Amorok]

I was pretty shocked that Lesnar got manhandled the way that he did. After watching it again I think the stop was justified. What a testament to Velasquez's skill that he could manhandle an opponent with such a size advantage that early while Lesnar still had a head of steam going. I'll be interested to see the rematch.

[Porkchop]

Did you see how deep the gash on Lesnar's cheek??? Fucking meat....

*Where is my puke smiley???*

[TYEster]

LOL @ the undertaker trying to take on Brock.

Isn't he like 50 years old now? BTW if you're older and still wearing a bandanna, we know you're going bald.

[Switch]

I think he was inferring that Brock should go back to WWE. Which he should.

[TYEster]

I think he was inferring that Brock should go back to WWE. Which he should.

Ya cause that's where the REAL action is. Only if the $$$ was right...

[Switch]

Ya cause that's where the REAL action is. Only if the $$$ was right...

I am a UFC fan. I don't want WWE in my UFC. He needs to go back to a place where he doesn't get punched in the face.

[tallywacker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zv9krZww34

[Trip]

LOL @ the undertaker trying to take on Brock.

Isn't he like 50 years old now? BTW if you're older and still wearing a bandanna, we know you're going bald.

I think he was inferring that Brock should go back to WWE. Which he should.

Ya cause that's where the REAL action is. Only if the $$$ was right...

I am with Bonesaw on this one. It's pretty clear he knew he had no game in MMA, he even said he was too old at the end of the interview. He was just doing the WWE bullshit. MMA/WWE, they are both gay, so it doesn't really matter either way to me.

[tallywacker]

I am with Bonesaw on this one. It's pretty clear he knew he had no game in MMA, he even said he was too old at the end of the interview. He was just doing the WWE bullshit. MMA/WWE, they are both gay, so it doesn't really matter either way to me.

Yep

[derf]

I had higher hopes for lesnar, was expecting much more from him. The undertaker was awesome though

[z06boy]

One of those "if looks could kill" moments. :lol:

I thought Brock would have handled Cain as well.

[Homeslice]

BTW if you're older and still wearing a bandanna, we know you're going bald.
Truth

[OneSickPsycho]

Shit's exploding all over the internet about the fight, the Undertaker thing, and Lesnar's future...

First off, hat's off to Cain Velasquez... the guy just keeps getting better and he looked incredible Saturday night.

As for Brock, he needs to go back to square one. I fully beleive he's got the potential to be a first class fighter... as long as he can get used to getting hit in the face. Although, that was only his 2nd big problem...

Lesnar's game plan was a complete departure from his last couple fights... maybe his camp feared Velasquez's striking that much, or maybe they underestimated his wrestling that much... or maybe they thought Lesnar was too big, too strong, and too quick for anything Velasquez had to offer... who knows... Either way, the Lesnar bum rush that got him caught by Mir is what ended this fight so quickly... combine that with an adrenaline rush and energy dump...

No excuses, Brock folded under the pressure of Velasquez's strikes. Once he got hit a couple of times, he lost his composure and probably wasn't seeing very straight either. Duck and fold is NOT a competent fighter's strategy.

So does Lesnar have a chin... I think so... is he afraid of getting hit in the face... maybe... does he have some of the worst strike defense of anyone in the UFC - absofuckinglutely. His hands fall quickly and he doesn't counter... in a match against a guy who can handle Lesnar's size, match his speed, neutralize his wrestling, and has excellent striking technique... the inevitable happened.

Personally, I hope Lesnar comes back. I hope he stops trying to lead his own camp and humbles himself to grunt it out at another, more established camp. He needs to learn to better defend against strikes, counter, and establish (stick with) a good game plan. He is an amazing athlete who's just scratched the surface of his potential... However Mike Tyson said it best, "everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth" or something like that.

A couple of things I noticed other than Lesnar getting whipped... 1) He's WAY smaller than he used to be... less roiding given the current climate in the UFC? focusing on leaning out to gain speed? Not sure, but he's definitely smaller. 2) His bag of tricks keeps getting deeper. Despite the ass-whipping, did anyone notice that flying knee? Actually looked pretty decent... man, that's a scary prospect... Muy Thai knees from a fucking mammoth animal like Lesnar.

As far as the Undertaker thing... I really, REALLY hope it wasn't some sort of WWE shtick... If so, that's about as low as it gets... Dude just got devestated and there you are on camera trying to bait him into a WWE match... If Lesnar was in on it, it's even worse... but for different reasons.

Other things about the whole event...

I am now a Jake Sheilds fan. Despite it not being an exciting fight, his technical prowess was INCREDIBLE. Dropping from 190 to 170 in a single day to make weight is fucking moronic and he looked dead tired a minute or so into the fight... however, sheer talent carried him through the remainder of the fight and Kampmann's ground game is no joke. The guy allowed himself to be put into the guillotine choke a couple of times just to get the fight back to the ground - and Kampmann's finished two people by guillotine and submitted others. That's fucking skills. GSP will breeze through Koscheck and Sheilds will come back in amazing condition... GSP - Sheilds all of a sudden became VERY interesting to me...

Diego Sanchez is BACK! He's an entertaining fighter and I'm really glad to see him pull out a W. Very entertaining fight... I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 10 guy again, but he's fun to watch.

Brandon Shaub really impressed me as well... Gonzaga isn't what he used to be and the heavyweight division has been evolving, but Shaub looked really good. Mir-Shaub is possible, or at least Shaub wants it... That would be a very interesting fight.

[Homeslice]

Dropping from 190 to 170 in a single day to make weight

Erm, ok..........how is that possible?

[Porkchop]

Diego Sanchez is BACK! He's an entertaining fighter and I'm really glad to see him pull out a W. Very entertaining fight... I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 10 guy again, but he's fun to watch.

Brandon Shaub really impressed me as well... Gonzaga isn't what he used to be and the heavyweight division has been evolving, but Shaub looked really good. Mir-Shaub is possible, or at least Shaub wants it... That would be a very interesting fight.

Diego looked like a monster. We all thought that was the best fight of the night. Gonzaga looked odd. He looked a little timid, even in the late 3rd round when he should have been in despiration mode. He just didnt look into it...

[OneSickPsycho]

Erm, ok..........how is that possible?

Your body is 70% water...

He may be inflating the drop, but it was obvious he dropped a TON of weight to make the cut... He looked drawn out and lacked stamina... ANY stamina. This is the same guy who goes 5 rounds and looks like he could go 5 more... Dropping weight like that is certainly possible, but it's bad, bad coaching/planning. Next time he comes in at 170, he'll look way better...

[OneSickPsycho]

Diego looked like a monster. We all thought that was the best fight of the night. Gonzaga looked odd. He looked a little timid, even in the late 3rd round when he should have been in despiration mode. He just didnt look into it...

Sanchez - Again, I'm glad to see him back...

Gonzaga - If you lost 4 of your previous 7 fights by getting the fuck knocked out of you, you may be a bit timid... especially after getting destroyed by Carwin and having the snot kicked out of him by Dos Santos...

[Homeslice]

Your body is 70% water...

He may be inflating the drop, but it was obvious he dropped a TON of weight to make the cut... He looked drawn out and lacked stamina... ANY stamina. This is the same guy who goes 5 rounds and looks like he could go 5 more... Dropping weight like that is certainly possible, but it's bad, bad coaching/planning. Next time he comes in at 170, he'll look way better...

I agree, your body is mostly water.......But 20 lbs out of someone who is only 190 lbs to begin with (that's more than a 10% loss), in just one day.......You can only force yourself to piss, sweat or burn so much in 24 hrs........A week maybe....

[TYEster]

I am with Bonesaw on this one. It's pretty clear he knew he had no game in MMA, he even said he was too old at the end of the interview. He was just doing the WWE bullshit. MMA/WWE, they are both gay, so it doesn't really matter either way to me.

This is what I was saying.

He would/should probably go back to WWE if the money was right. That's straight up paid entertainment.

[JoJoYZF]

Shit's exploding all over the internet about the fight, the Undertaker thing, and Lesnar's future...

First off, hat's off to Cain Velasquez... the guy just keeps getting better and he looked incredible Saturday night.

As for Brock, he needs to go back to square one. I fully beleive he's got the potential to be a first class fighter... as long as he can get used to getting hit in the face. Although, that was only his 2nd big problem...

Lesnar's game plan was a complete departure from his last couple fights... maybe his camp feared Velasquez's striking that much, or maybe they underestimated his wrestling that much... or maybe they thought Lesnar was too big, too strong, and too quick for anything Velasquez had to offer... who knows... Either way, the Lesnar bum rush that got him caught by Mir is what ended this fight so quickly... combine that with an adrenaline rush and energy dump...

No excuses, Brock folded under the pressure of Velasquez's strikes. Once he got hit a couple of times, he lost his composure and probably wasn't seeing very straight either. Duck and fold is NOT a competent fighter's strategy.

So does Lesnar have a chin... I think so... is he afraid of getting hit in the face... maybe... does he have some of the worst strike defense of anyone in the UFC - absofuckinglutely. His hands fall quickly and he doesn't counter... in a match against a guy who can handle Lesnar's size, match his speed, neutralize his wrestling, and has excellent striking technique... the inevitable happened.

Personally, I hope Lesnar comes back. I hope he stops trying to lead his own camp and humbles himself to grunt it out at another, more established camp. He needs to learn to better defend against strikes, counter, and establish (stick with) a good game plan. He is an amazing athlete who's just scratched the surface of his potential... However Mike Tyson said it best, "everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth" or something like that.

A couple of things I noticed other than Lesnar getting whipped... 1) He's WAY smaller than he used to be... less roiding given the current climate in the UFC? focusing on leaning out to gain speed? Not sure, but he's definitely smaller. 2) His bag of tricks keeps getting deeper. Despite the ass-whipping, did anyone notice that flying knee? Actually looked pretty decent... man, that's a scary prospect... Muy Thai knees from a fucking mammoth animal like Lesnar.

As far as the Undertaker thing... I really, REALLY hope it wasn't some sort of WWE shtick... If so, that's about as low as it gets... Dude just got devestated and there you are on camera trying to bait him into a WWE match... If Lesnar was in on it, it's even worse... but for different reasons.

Other things about the whole event...

I am now a Jake Sheilds fan. Despite it not being an exciting fight, his technical prowess was INCREDIBLE. Dropping from 190 to 170 in a single day to make weight is fucking moronic and he looked dead tired a minute or so into the fight... however, sheer talent carried him through the remainder of the fight and Kampmann's ground game is no joke. The guy allowed himself to be put into the guillotine choke a couple of times just to get the fight back to the ground - and Kampmann's finished two people by guillotine and submitted others. That's fucking skills. GSP will breeze through Koscheck and Sheilds will come back in amazing condition... GSP - Sheilds all of a sudden became VERY interesting to me...

Diego Sanchez is BACK! He's an entertaining fighter and I'm really glad to see him pull out a W. Very entertaining fight... I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 10 guy again, but he's fun to watch.

Brandon Shaub really impressed me as well... Gonzaga isn't what he used to be and the heavyweight division has been evolving, but Shaub looked really good. Mir-Shaub is possible, or at least Shaub wants it... That would be a very interesting fight.

I fully agree with all of this. Lesnar could be a beast if he becomes a more rounded fighter. His ground game is pretty decent already because of his wrestling background (college, not the fake wwe shit) so if he can learn some submission defense and maybe a few submissions of his own he'd be a real tough fighter. I think youre right about him needing to go to a real camp. If he could up his ground game and get a good boxing coach to teach him how to counter and block along with a ground game he could be unstoppable.

Im wondering how much of him being smaller is still from him being sick. I know they said he lost a ton of weight and gained some back before the carwin fight and Im not sure how much more he was able to gain back. He used to walk around at almost 300 lbs and lately has been closer to 270-275 I think. It makes the cut a lot easier but its still obvious how much smaller he is come fight time.

Jake shields will definitely be a hell of a fighter once he cuts right. He looked almost sick and like joe rogan pointed out, he looked very dry like it was a very rough cut. Im guessing they did inflate the 20 lbs in a day but from the look of it I wouldnt be too surprised if it was only 2 or 3 days. Once he fights with some strength and cardio he should be a great opponent for gsp. I dont even know why koscheck has a title shot against gsp because I seriously doubt hes even going to put up a good fight.

Ive been a sanchez fan since he was on the ultimate fighter so I was very happy to see him fighting like his old self. Nothing says diego's back quite like the slam after carrying thiago across the octagon while screaming.

[Kaneman]

Been reading that they're going to do Lesnar Vs. Mir III for his next fight. Boring....

FWIW, the WEC usually has better fights, but I'm a sucker for the big names too.

[z06boy]

I fully expected Velasquez to dismantle Lesnar. I was never a Lesnar fan to begin with, and for me, all his mystique disappeared with the first round mauling he took from Carwin. If Carwin had come into that fight with the proper conditioning, he would have taken the title just as easily as Velasquez. Lesnar is good, and I expect him to come back even better, but his unrealistic reputation was built entirely upon wins over the aging shadow of Randy Couture and the always over-rated Frank Mir.

Velasquez reminds me of Fedor. The quiet, humble fighter who grew up in poverty, who lacks the size and physique of his opponents, who wins not through physical strength, but rather technique and tenacity. Velasquez is a wrestler and Emelianenko has his Sambo, but both are grapplers who also excel on the feet. With the exception of Fedor's last few fights, both guys dominate from bell to bell. With Fedor's career winding down (he fought all of 69 seconds in 2010), I can't think of any up-and-comer more deserving of the torch than Velasquez.

That said, as of today, I still think Emelianenko could take Velasquez. Styles make fights, and I think Fedor would actually have more trouble with monsters like Lesnar or Carwin.

Velasquez's first title defense against Junior dos Santos is very reminiscent of Emelianenko versus Filipovic: the top heavyweight striker versus the champion heavyweight grappler. Fans new to the sport don't think much of it now, but in 2005 that fight was HUGE.

If Cro Cop would have brought 1/100th of his old self into his last fight, he would have kicked Mir's head off and we wouldn't have to suffer through Mir-Lesnar III.

WEC / UFC, it's all Zuffa. I don't know why they don't just merge the two. Throwing the WEC 155-pounders into the UFC mix would be AWESOME, and guys in the lighter classes (ALDO) could use the exposure.

Good posts :cheers: and I agree with ALL of it EXCEPT that even though I wanted Cain to dismantle Brock...I admit that I didn't "fully expect it". :lol:

I didn't see much of anyone else thinking it before the fight. I'm not saying you didn't...I just didn't see anyone much at all thinking it. Most just seem to think Brock was too big and strong and would take Cain down for some ground and pound...I'm glad that didn't happen.

[defector]

Been reading that they're going to do Lesnar Vs. Mir III for his next fight. Boring....

FWIW, the WEC usually has better fights, but I'm a sucker for the big names too.

Yeah that sucks, but it is a business. Lesnar was a part of two of the biggest UFC PPV's ever. I think they want to get him back in there with someone he is confident he can beat (again).

[defector]

It'll never happen, but I'd like to see JDS vs Overeem, Cain vs Fedor, and Brock vs Barnett. No style clashes this way, just matches to determine the best at what they all do.

Overeem needs to fight somebody. Anybody. In a cage, not in a K1 ring.

[OneSickPsycho]

I fully expected Velasquez to dismantle Lesnar. I was never a Lesnar fan to begin with, and for me, all his mystique disappeared with the first round mauling he took from Carwin. If Carwin had come into that fight with the proper conditioning, he would have taken the title just as easily as Velasquez. Lesnar is good, and I expect him to come back even better, but his unrealistic reputation was built entirely upon wins over the aging shadow of Randy Couture and the always over-rated Frank Mir.

Velasquez reminds me of Fedor. The quiet, humble fighter who grew up in poverty, who lacks the size and physique of his opponents, who wins not through physical strength, but rather technique and tenacity. Velasquez is a wrestler and Emelianenko has his Sambo, but both are grapplers who also excel on the feet. With the exception of Fedor's last few fights, both guys dominate from bell to bell. With Fedor's career winding down (he fought all of 69 seconds in 2010), I can't think of any up-and-comer more deserving of the torch than Velasquez.

That said, as of today, I still think Emelianenko could take Velasquez. Styles make fights, and I think Fedor would actually have more trouble with monsters like Lesnar or Carwin.

Velasquez's first title defense against Junior dos Santos is very reminiscent of Emelianenko versus Filipovic: the top heavyweight striker versus the champion heavyweight grappler. Fans new to the sport don't think much of it now, but in 2005 that fight was HUGE.

I think Fedor is the most over-rated person in MMA... period.

Been reading that they're going to do Lesnar Vs. Mir III for his next fight. Boring....

FWIW, the WEC usually has better fights, but I'm a sucker for the big names too.

I think Lesnar/Mir III has a draw, but I wouldn't be overly excited for it... I'd like to see Lesnar/Carwin II much more than that...

If Cro Cop would have brought 1/100th of his old self into his last fight, he would have kicked Mir's head off and we wouldn't have to suffer through Mir-Lesnar III.

WEC / UFC, it's all Zuffa. I don't know why they don't just merge the two. Throwing the WEC 155-pounders into the UFC mix would be AWESOME, and guys in the lighter classes (ALDO) could use the exposure.

Aldo is a fucking animal, I LOVE watching that guy fight. I think they aren't combining the two because in general the lighter classes aren't as exciting... from a casual fan standpoint. Nobody gives a shit who the toughest guy is at 135, but everyone pays attention to the 205'ers... Just like boxing... guys move up in weight to get more exposure and get the fights that draw the most attention.

Yeah that sucks, but it is a business. Lesnar was a part of two of the biggest UFC PPV's ever. I think they want to get him back in there with someone he is confident he can beat (again).

Lesnar was the draw for 3 of the UFC's top 4 PPV's... he's a cash cow... and despite the loss, I think he still will be... that said, I don't see him topping out his next PPV and probably not the one after that either (unless he whips unholy ass next time).

[OneSickPsycho]

I hear this most often from people who weren't following the sport pre-2005/06. He's beaten his share of cans, but he's also beaten everyone who was anyone at the time he fought them.

Fedor and Brock have each fought four top-ten opponents in the last three years, and have each gone 3-1 (not counting Lesnar's avenged loss to Mir).

I don't disagree at all, but everyone sucks Fedor's cock like he's a God and truthfully, he's nothing compared to the new generation of fighters... especially now that the heavyweight ranks are attracting guys that aren't JUST big... and he knows it.

There is no real reason Fedor wouldn't have come into the UFC other than he's afraid of losing his god-like status among MMA fans... He's like Mayweather... He'll keep fighting guys that he stacks up well against and he'll keep winning, but he won't be fighting the best of the best.

The proof is in the pudding... Other guys that he has beaten, but who have been otherwise reasonably successful come into the UFC and get destroyed... Or, they are UFC flunkies who are on their way out anyway... and in one case, the UFC cast out wins.

He starts putting on dominating performances against someone relevant, then I'll buy into the Fedor-mystique... but until then, Fedor is going to be just as irrelevant to me.

[defector]

It's been a while since I've been interested in the HW division. I honestly think Dos Santos can beat Velasquez. Brendan Shaub looks to have a pretty good future, too. I would like to see him go against Carwin.
Lesnar has been exposed as the primitive fighter he is - if he gets with a good camp (outside of Minnesota) and gets some different training, he could truly be a nightmare for anybody. I just don't think he is willing to yet.

[Kaneman]

It's been a while since I've been interested in the HW division. I honestly think Dos Santos can beat Velasquez. Brendan Shaub looks to have a pretty good future, too. I would like to see him go against Carwin.
Lesnar has been exposed as the primitive fighter he is - if he gets with a good camp (outside of Minnesota) and gets some different training, he could truly be a nightmare for anybody. I just don't think he is willing to yet.

Looks like Carwin won't be fighting anyone for a while...he just pulled out of the Nelson fight due to back injury. Now they're talking Cro Cop Vs. Nelson possibly... WTF?

[defector]

Looks like Carwin won't be fighting anyone for a while...he just pulled out of the Nelson fight due to back injury. Now they're talking Cro Cop Vs. Nelson possibly... WTF?

Ugh. Suddenly losing interest in the division again.

[OneSickPsycho]

Sorry dude, but calling Fedor's recent opponents irrelevant is pretty ignorant.

Tim Sylvia (the longest reigning UFC heavyweight champ) beat the shit out of Nogueira for two rounds before being submitted in the third, and was still ranked 3 or 4 when he fought Fedor. He stood in front of an ex-Olympic boxer and got knocked out, but is currently on a three-fight winning streak.

Andrei Arlovski left the UFC on a three-fight winning streak and had won five straight before facing Fedor. He was ranked number TWO at the time. He knocked out Roy Nelson, something UFC title contender Junior dos Santos couldn't do.

Brett Rogers is the semi-can in this line-up, but he was ranked for his destruction of Arlovski.

Fabricio Werdum is probably the best heavyweight BJJ practitioner in the world. His only semi-recent loss is to a current title contender, and I believe an in-shape Werdum would win that rematch. He will probably lose to Fedor when they meet again, but he'll remain a force in any organization in which he competes.

In top form, any one of these guys could cause problems for any of the UFC's top heavies. It's not Fedor's fault that fighters lose their mojo after he pounds them out.

I wouldn't expect Fedor to breeze through every heavyweight in the UFC, but I would consider him the betting favorite in every match, and for good reason.

Look, I'm not saying the guy's not a good fighter... I'm just saying is not the god of MMA like everyone wants to believe. I think the statement in bold says it all... he catches guys on the way out.

The only other thing I want to comment on in your post is your analysis of Sylvia. Three fight win streak... against WHO?

It's been a while since I've been interested in the HW division. I honestly think Dos Santos can beat Velasquez. Brendan Shaub looks to have a pretty good future, too. I would like to see him go against Carwin.
Lesnar has been exposed as the primitive fighter he is - if he gets with a good camp (outside of Minnesota) and gets some different training, he could truly be a nightmare for anybody. I just don't think he is willing to yet.

Not sure Dos Santos can beat Velasquez, but either way... it's certainly going to be one of the matches I look forward to the most in 2011.

I like Shaub... I also like some of the other new blood... like Mitrione. That guy's fighting style is soooooo odd and interesting to watch.

Looks like Carwin won't be fighting anyone for a while...he just pulled out of the Nelson fight due to back injury. Now they're talking Cro Cop Vs. Nelson possibly... WTF?

That would SUCK. Carwin probably would have annihilated Nelson anyway, but I'd rather see Mir/Nelson any day...

Ugh. Suddenly losing interest in the division again.

It's easy to lose interest in the heavyweights, which is funny because given their size they have the potential to be the most exciting... The UFC has a BIG problem in that division... they are simply running out of guys that can challenge eachother without constant rematches... Dana White needs new blood in those ranks... Overeem is a target as well as he should be, and another TUF heavyweight show should definitely be in the works...

[z06boy]

I'm not going to quote everyone and give specific opinions and all since I'm at the office and keep getting interruped...imagine that :lol: but just wanted to say...some very good opinions and valid points being brought up here and I am enjoying the read. :cheers:

[Kaneman]

I'm not going to quote everyone and give specific opinions and all since I'm at the office and keep getting interruped...imagine that :lol: but just wanted to say...some very good opinions and valid points being brought up here and I am enjoying the read. :cheers:

Yup, agreed. Some goddamn MMA scientists residing in this forum. :lol:

For the record, I won $20 on the Lesnar fight. I figured Velasquez would rip Lesnar to shreds, but I didn't expect it to go down until Lesnar got winded. Velasquez has probably had harder sparring sessions than that fight. I'm a big Lesnar fan, but he doesn't have the speed for a guy like Cain.

[z06boy]

Yup, agreed. Some goddamn MMA scientists residing in this forum. :lol:

For the record, I won $20 on the Lesnar fight. I figured Velasquez would rip Lesnar to shreds, but I didn't expect it to go down until Lesnar got winded. Velasquez has probably had harder sparring sessions than that fight. I'm a big Lesnar fan, but he doesn't have the speed for a guy like Cain.

:rofl: :rofl: scientists !!

Yeah I admit I didn't really think Cain would win mainly because I thought Carwin was going to beat him and he didn't.

I've missed two in a row now. :wtfru: :lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

Yup, agreed. Some goddamn MMA scientists residing in this forum. :lol:

For the record, I won $20 on the Lesnar fight. I figured Velasquez would rip Lesnar to shreds, but I didn't expect it to go down until Lesnar got winded. Velasquez has probably had harder sparring sessions than that fight. I'm a big Lesnar fan, but he doesn't have the speed for a guy like Cain.

I don't think it's a lack of speed... Lesnar's fucking quick... I think it's a lack of experience and good coaching... If I were coaching Lesnar I'd focus on, in order:

1) cardio - Lesnar's a beast and has taken it the distance before, but especially with the big guys you gotta focus on cardio to ensure someone cannot outgrind you.

2) standup defense - fuck working on how to hit someone, work on NOT getting hit which is certainly a weakness on Lesnar's part.

3) jiu jitsu - Lesnar's wrestling pedigree should lend itself well to BJJ, though you see him trying to stand and strike... fuck that. Add BJJ to his strong wrestling background and freakish strength, and you have one scary, scary dude.

4) wrestling - Keep his skill sharp and get some world class wrestling partners in there. Sure, it's more fun to watch someone beat the shit out of another guy, but Lesnar's not meant to be a proficient striker... he's not fluid in his strikes and I'm not convinced that he'll ever be very good at it.

5) muy thai - Apart from learning defense, Lesnar needs to mix it up more. Again Lesnar's not going to be an amazing striker ever, but if he pulls someone into the clinch he should be able to bring some serious knees and shit... it wouldn't be a primary focus, but if he would mix it up with leg kicks and shit he could really throw off his opponents and put them in a position for a takedown, or at least make them think twice about hitting him.

6) composure, composure, composure - Lesnar was doing well his last couple of fights... coming in calm, remaining calm, and taking advantage of opportunities when they arose... He came in the same animal that got caught by Frank Mir... wild and crazy just cannot compete against smooth and technical.

[defector]

Lots of stuff

I would agree with everything you said. With his natural attributes, he doesn't need to be the best in any one area. He just needs to be better in all areas. He needs to get with a good team like American Top Team, or Jackson's camp. Somebody that will push him hard.

As far as getting hit, I don't even know how or if you can teach that. I think it's instinct.
Some guys turtle up, some guys try and clinch, some go for the takedown, some immediately retaliate. Sometimes he appears to panic (or get lost), and just stumbles around getting clubbed.

[Kaneman]

Well you have to wonder how much diversity he really gets in his Deathclutch gym training with his good ol' boy buddies...

[defector]

Well you have to wonder how much diversity he really gets in his Deathclutch gym training with his good ol' boy buddies...

That is my biggest question - is he willing to get out of his comfort zone and train with somebody else for another shot at the title?

[OneSickPsycho]

I would agree with everything you said. With his natural attributes, he doesn't need to be the best in any one area. He just needs to be better in all areas. He needs to get with a good team like American Top Team, or Jackson's camp. Somebody that will push him hard.

As far as getting hit, I don't even know how or if you can teach that. I think it's instinct.
Some guys turtle up, some guys try and clinch, some go for the takedown, some immediately retaliate. Sometimes he appears to panic (or get lost), and just stumbles around getting clubbed.

I think you can train getting hit... 16oz gloves. Sure, it's not 4oz'ers by any stretch of the imagination, but let him get in there and spar with someone with serious boxing skills and let them work him for a while... Once you realize you aren't going to shatter like a piece of glass it's easier to stand in there and react properly.

I'm voting for him to go into Jackson's camp. Greg Jackson is a master at molding fantastic fighters. Lesnar needs to stop training with people who he can out-perform and start getting in there with guys who are better at their individual (or multiple) disciplines.

Well you have to wonder how much diversity he really gets in his Deathclutch gym training with his good ol' boy buddies...

None, and that's the problem. Every time you see him in his training camp he's tossing around heavyweights that should be fighting at light heavyweight... Hello?!?!?!

Let me introduce you to Team Lesnar, I'd be surprised if you recognized anyone:
http://www.bjjtraining.com/images/neil-brock2.jpg

[OneSickPsycho]

That is my biggest question - is he willing to get out of his comfort zone and train with somebody else for another shot at the title?

Depends on how hungry he is... I guess we'll see...

[defector]

Depends on how hungry he is... I guess we'll see...

Personally, I don't believe he has that hunger.

[OneSickPsycho]

A) You may be confusing Fedor for Fedor's management.

B) You're assuming the UFC has better heavyweights than Strikeforce. The UFC is better at marketing their up-and-comers, but that doesn't necessarily make them the better fighters. Strikeforce has the more established veterans and prospects like Daniel Cormier, Shane del Rosario, Lavar Johnson, etc.



The way out of what? With the exception of Sylvia, every one of his recent opponents were on winning streaks prior to facing him.

Anyway:

http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/ll450/the_guvna50/haters.gif

A) Who's ultimately in charge of their management? Fedor... he could tell them to fuck off and fire them if need be.

B) I agree 100%, but Fedor's not fighting those guys by and large... Sure sometimes he gets a good fight, but there are a lot of hacks he's faught that pads his record... and what happens to those good guys he beats? They start losing.

Awesome gif.

[OneSickPsycho]

For anyone interested:

Lesnar vs. Velasquez (http://mmafightvideosonline.blogspot.com/2010/10/brock-lesnar-vs-cain-velasquez-fight.html)

I post this because people are bitching about an illegal blow to the back of the head by Velasquez around 2:17 in the round. I saw it, but I don't think that's were Brock lost... I think it was the knee just before that.

[defector]

For anyone interested:

Lesnar vs. Velasquez (http://mmafightvideosonline.blogspot.com/2010/10/brock-lesnar-vs-cain-velasquez-fight.html)

I post this because people are bitching about an illegal blow to the back of the head by Velasquez around 2:17 in the round. I saw it, but I don't think that's were Brock lost... I think it was the knee just before that.

Agree. That particular shot didn't affect the outcome, IMO.

[OneSickPsycho]

Alrighty then!

UFC, WEC to Merge in 2011 (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC-WEC-to-Merge-in-2011-27812)

"The winner of Ben Henderson’s [Dec. 16 title defense against Anthony Pettis] will automatically face the winner of Frankie Edgar versus Gray Maynard," said White.

Nice! I think the 125lb class will be super cool to watch... just don't blink!

So what do you think Edgar v. Maynard?

I'm thinking 5 rounds of awesome... Maynard pulling out the win. Dunno though, both fighters have progressed since their first go, so it will be REAL interesting.

[defector]

Edgar vs maynard should be good.
Frankie Edgar vs Eddie Alvarez is one I would also like to see.

[OneSickPsycho]

Edgar vs maynard should be good.
Frankie Edgar vs Eddie Alvarez is one I would also like to see.

Yeah, he's real fun to watch... What's real interesting about him fighting Edgar is that he's put guys away way more than Edgar has, plus he's bigger.

[defector]

I would also like to see Shinya Aoki vs BJ Penn

[OneSickPsycho]

Edgar and Alvarez train together, so I'm not sure we'll ever see that one. Both are very good, but I would take Edgar. He's smaller, but the more technically sound boxer. Alvarez is a brawler, albeit a very effective one.



Speaking of over-rated fighters: BJ Penn. I've never understood the nut-huggery behind this guy. Talented, yes... consistent, never. I don't understand how fans can put him up there with Fedor, Anderson, GSP, etc.

BJ Penn suffers from "I'm the best guy in my gym" syndrome and "my ego gets in the way of my talent" disorder.

During the last fight with Edgar, his corner was pumping him up and telling him he was winning when he was CLEARLY being out-worked. He needs a tough camp with guys who can challenge him and people in his corner giving him EFFECTIVE advice.

[defector]

Edgar and Alvarez train together, so I'm not sure we'll ever see that one. Both are very good, but I would take Edgar. He's smaller, but the more technically sound boxer. Alvarez is a brawler, albeit a very effective one.

Speaking of over-rated fighters: BJ Penn. I've never understood the nut-huggery behind this guy. Talented, yes... consistent, never. I don't understand how fans can put him up there with Fedor, Anderson, GSP, etc.

Dana went on a tangient the other day about guys who train together saying they won't fight each other. Apparently he is very frustrated with some of Greg Jackson's fighters, most notably Rashad Evans.

IMO, BJ is on the downward side of his career (as far as title contention).He was clearly broken down by GSP at 170, and twice by Edgar at 155.
BUT, he is supposed to be one of the best BJJ guys in the world. IMO Aoki is by a large margin. I would like to see that match.

[z06boy]

For anyone interested:

Lesnar vs. Velasquez (http://mmafightvideosonline.blogspot.com/2010/10/brock-lesnar-vs-cain-velasquez-fight.html)

I post this because people are bitching about an illegal blow to the back of the head by Velasquez around 2:17 in the round. I saw it, but I don't think that's were Brock lost... I think it was the knee just before that.

I don't think that's that punch is where he lost either. Cain just flat out overall whipped his azz.

I do give Brock credit for his remarks to Rogan after the fight. Nice to see him humble for a change.

Alrighty then!

UFC, WEC to Merge in 2011 (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC-WEC-to-Merge-in-2011-27812)



Interesting...did not know this.

[OneSickPsycho]

I don't think that's that punch is where he lost either. Cain just flat out overall whipped his azz.

I do give Brock credit for his remarks to Rogan after the fight. Nice to see him humble for a change.



Interesting...did not know this.

Yeah, Lesnar's been waaaaayyyyyy less intense and waaaaayyyy more humble since coming back after his illness.

[OneSickPsycho]

i love these things...

http://i51.tinypic.com/2niuoom.gif

better...

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn166/olenskim/funny%20gifs/cainbrockdesperado.gif

bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

[Apoc]

Yeah, Lesnar's been waaaaayyyyyy less intense and waaaaayyyy more humble since coming back after his illness.


I honestly think it took a lot out of him. Its extremely hard on his body to maintain that size as well. Your joints wear, movement slows, range of motion dies. Thats just from the weightlifting. Add in day after day of punishment, training in a cage, and its no wonder the effective career of a fighter is so short.

Throw in life threatening illness and stress, and you cant really blame the guy.

Brock vs. 'Taker though? Brock would rip his arms off and choke him with his own hands.

[z06boy]

I love these things...

Better...



:rofl: :rofl: