Texas to allow students and professors to carry firearms

[L8 Braker]

Full story in link below...

Texas set to allow guns on college campuses - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/21/national/main20034291.shtml)

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/3172/97892303.jpg

[pauldun170]

Not impressed until it's allowed in grade school

[TYEster]

I vote good.

However there should be concern for when someone can't handle their alcohol, get's disgruntled and remember they carry.

[Amorok]

Criminals polled in studies and surveys have consistently referred to schools, bars, and other no-carry areas as "victim disarmament zones." If just one person in the Virginia Tech or Columbine scenario's had been able to return fire the loss of life might have been much lower. I'm not going to rehash the st6atistics of people who have CCW permits vs people who dont and the correlation with gun related crimes, those numbers can be found with a google seacrh andf they speak for themselves. I sincerely believe this is a step to preventing further violence in schools.

[ericr]

I'm all for it!

[derf]

I'm all for it!

Amen brotha

[Cutty72]

I'm for it, just like Amorok said.

[pauldun170]

Criminals polled in studies and surveys have consistently referred to schools, bars, and other no-carry areas as "victim disarmament zones." If just one person in the Virginia Tech or Columbine scenario's had been able to return fire the loss of life might have been much lower. I'm not going to rehash the st6atistics of people who have CCW permits vs people who dont and the correlation with gun related crimes, those numbers can be found with a google seacrh andf they speak for themselves. I sincerely believe this is a step to preventing further violence in schools.

Excuse me?
What fucking criminal (let's forget the polling) is going to use the term "victim disarmament zone"

Seriously....

[Avatard]

I voted bad idea. Administrators, yes; students, no.

I agree that "gun free zones" are just a place for criminals to shoot fish in a barrel, I just don't think the students should be armed. Kids don't have sufficient impulse control.

Teachers, administrators, and security personnel, yes.

[Rangerscott]

I voted bad idea. Administrators, yes; students, no.

Phrat boys?

[Corey]

I'm all for it. Only people obeying ridiculous "gun free zones" are law abiding citizens.

I voted bad idea. Administrators, yes; students, no.

I agree that "gun free zones" are just a place for criminals to shoot fish in a barrel, I just don't think the students should be armed. Kids don't have sufficient impulse control.

Teachers, administrators, and security personnel, yes.

If a person passes the appropriate measures to obtain a concealed carry permit, why would it matter? This measure doesn't allow anybody to throw a gun in a backpack for shits and giggles. Unless I'm mistaken, you would still need a concealed carry permit. The only thing this does is remove a university from the list of places you couldn't carry. If someone has gotten their CCW, they've probably shown some form of control and responsibility around guns.

[goof2]

I voted bad idea. Administrators, yes; students, no.

I agree that "gun free zones" are just a place for criminals to shoot fish in a barrel, I just don't think the students should be armed. Kids don't have sufficient impulse control.

Teachers, administrators, and security personnel, yes.

The article doesn't say, but the law requires anyone who carries on campus to have a concealed weapons permit. Anyone who would be legally carrying on campus is already allowed to legally carry pretty much everywhere else in the state.

[goof2]

I'm all for it. Only people obeying ridiculous "gun free zones" are law abiding citizens.



If a person passes the appropriate measures to obtain a concealed carry permit, why would it matter? This measure doesn't allow anybody to throw a gun in a backpack for shits and giggles. Unless I'm mistaken, you would still need a concealed carry permit. The only thing this does is remove a university from the list of places you couldn't carry. If someone has gotten their CCW, they've probably shown some form of control and responsibility around guns.

Your post went up while I was typing. Yes, the person would need to have a concealed weapons permit before being legal to carry on campus.

[pickle.of.doom]

I delivered to an 'Explorers" club meeting the other day... was a lil freaky honestly. Walked in to a room with an officer in the front and about a dozen 13-17 year old teens, all with guns holstered to their sides. I'm all for it, but I have to say it was a strange feeling walking in on that.

[Adeptus_Minor]

I delivered to an 'Explorers" club meeting the other day... was a lil freaky honestly. Walked in to a room with an officer in the front and about a dozen 13-17 year old teens, all with guns holstered to their sides. I'm all for it, but I have to say it was a strange feeling walking in on that.

Wait...what?! My chapter never got guns. The cops just wanted patsies to sell their damn policeman's ball tickets. :td:

[LeeNetworX]

I'm all for it!

As am I.

[wildchild]

i voted good but with some reservations. no offense to many here but half of that statement, ok less then half but you know what I mean, are barely old enough to drink. (if even) do we really want them carrying guns and making life or death decisions while under the pressure of tests, girls/guys, parents, new freedom, etc.

i look at my son of 20 (almost old enough to have a handgun) and really can't say I want him carrying a gun concealed as of yet. he can shoot like no other, and he's responsible for a 20 yr old (sometimes) but................

maybe some students and some professors yes but some maybe not.

[G-Rex]

i voted good but with some reservations. no offense to many here but half of that statement, ok less then half but you know what I mean, are barely old enough to drink. (if even) do we really want them carrying guns and making life or death decisions while under the pressure of tests, girls/guys, parents, new freedom, etc.

i look at my son of 20 (almost old enough to have a handgun) and really can't say I want him carrying a gun concealed as of yet. he can shoot like no other, and he's responsible for a 20 yr old (sometimes) but................

maybe some students and some professors yes but some maybe not.

While I see your point, I would offer this up.

Since the minimum age to conceal carry that I'm aware of in most, if not all states is 21, then it stand to reason there are plenty of people who are *barely of age* carrying concealed. They already have all of the pressures you noted outside of the campus. Now, they simply have the option to carry on campus.

I'm all for it.

[wildchild]

While I see your point, I would offer this up.

Since the minimum age to conceal carry that I'm aware of in most, if not all states is 21, then it stand to reason there are plenty of people who are *barely of age* carrying concealed. They already have all of the pressures you noted outside of the campus. Now, they simply have the option to carry on campus.

I'm all for it.

agree but, what about in the dorms? it would seem a 21 year old carrying out in society, where all ages and mentalitys are, they would think responsibly. now put that 21 year old in a dorm full of 18 - 24 year olds, at least one of whom will say "hey johnny has a gun". next statement is "hey let me see it" "no I can't"
"let me see it and I'll let you see my ....."
or
"let me see it or I'll take it"

too much testosterone and immaturity in a dorm. there is no way they would keep it hidden from roommates and what not.

I guess I would agree they could carry in class but not in the dorms if that makes sense.

[Rangerscott]

Just because you carry doesnt mean you have to use your weapon. People still have their damn brains stuck in old western movies.

I have a drivers license. Doesnt mean I have to drive. I have an asbestoes certificate. Doesnt mean I have to work around it.

[z06boy]

I'm pro gun but was on the fence with this one when I first read the thread title. As some have said...I too was all for the faculty and security personal being armed but wasn't too sure about the students.

HOWEVER since it's been pointed out that it's the same people that would carry elsewhere because they would have to have their Conceal Carry Permit...this swayed me to vote...all for it. :yes:

[nhgunnut]

First as someone who is decidedly pro gun I have to vote good. If someone can get a concealed carry permit going to college should not deprive them of that right. On the other hand if you are intoxicated and carrying your permit should be suspended period. I work in a corrections center and while seldom articulated as such, it is clear that violent criminals regard "Gun Free Zones" as Low risk Victim pools. There is simply no question in my mind that an Armed Society is a Polite Society.

[L8 Braker]

For anyone saying this will be a bad idea, let me ask...

When is the last time you read about a professor that shot up his students?...Now, when is the last time you read about a professor that gave his life trying to help his students when a gunman had invaded their classroom?...The same question and answer can be asked about the students involved in these situations...

Simply put, this law would make these schools LESS LIKELY to be the target of a madman's deadly assault...For me, that's a win for the good guys, and I am 1000% in support of it...

[Avatard]

For anyone saying this will be a bad idea, let me ask...

When is the last time you read about a professor that shot up his students?

Which is why I said it's a good idea for the Administration, but perhaps not the students.

[Papa_Complex]

As someone who has worked in a university for the past 13 years, I think that this is a monumentally stupid idea.

[marko138]

I'm for it.

[pauldun170]

As someone who does not live in Texas and does not attend university I think this is a win win.

If nothing happens then it will not make the news and it doesn't effect me.
If a student gets drunk and accidentally shoots another student then we all get to point fingers and go "look at those stupid texans being texan again....stupid texans.....lol"
If a school shooting occurs and some student kills the gunman, we will all just say "Well thats Texas...they are always doing shit like that"

I expect more pics of topless texas coeds holding guns to appear on various sites across the web.
Win

[ericr]

Which is why I said it's a good idea for the Administration, but perhaps not the students.

Well, lets see here. I'm going back to school in April, I've had a carry permit since I was 21, I will be 45 in April and I am ex military. Care to revise your statement? ;)

I'll wager I have more experience and training with firearms than 99.8% of college administrators, and probably did when I was 21 and first got my permit since I'd been shooting since I could hold a gun.

And to support your statement, find me all the news reports of 21 year olds that just got their carry permits that have been in firearms related crimes or incidents other than self defense.

[ericr]

First as someone who is decidedly pro gun I have to vote good. If someone can get a concealed carry permit going to college should not deprive them of that right. On the other hand if you are intoxicated and carrying your permit should be suspended period. I work in a corrections center and while seldom articulated as such, it is clear that violent criminals regard "Gun Free Zones" as Low risk Victim pools. There is simply no question in my mind that an Armed Society is a Polite Society.

In GA, it is illegal to consume alcohol while carrying a concealed weapon, you go to jail for that. I think all states have that in their CC laws. I agree with the rest of your post too :dthumb:

[Avatard]

Well, lets see here. I'm going back to school in April, I've had a carry permit since I was 21, I will be 45 in April and I am ex military. Care to revise your statement? ;)

I'll wager I have more experience and training with firearms than 99.8% of college administrators, and probably did when I was 21 and first got my permit since I'd been shooting since I could hold a gun.

That's ducky. It's not your fucking house. I don't care how fucking old you are.

In the old west (gun ettiquette 101), you'd have to surrender (check) your gun to the establishment you went into, if they (the folks who's place it was) decided that the environment was too uncontrolled for firearms, or simply didn't want the responsibility under their roof (as in a saloon).

I say a big bunch of young, testosterone filled emo assholes drinking, competing, and trying to impress women in one place is an even worse idea when you add firearms. It's been proven that younger people lack impulse control.

Much like a saloon full of grown men is likely to have some problems once some of the patrons become more "lubricated", as not all people are happy drunks, the proprietors would do well to take measures to check guns at the door.

Administrators run the place. It's their house. They should have the guns. Arm even the fucking janitor...but the students? No.

No exception for you, Mr. old guy, sorry. It's still not your fucking house.

[ericr]

That's ducky. It's not your fucking house. I don't care how fucking old you are.

In the old west (gun ettiquette 101), you'd have to surrender (check) your gun to the establishment you went into, if they (the folks who's place it was) decided that the environment was too uncontrolled for firearms, or simply didn't want the responsibility under their roof (as in a saloon).

I say a big bunch of young, testosterone filled emo assholes drinking, competing, and trying to impress women in one place is an even worse idea when you add firearms. It's been proven that younger people lack impulse control.

Much like a saloon full of grown men is likely to have some problems once some of the patrons become more "lubricated", as not all people are happy drunks, and so the proprietors would take measures to check guns at the door.

Administrators run the place. They should have the guns. Arm even the fucking janitor...but the students? No.

No exception for you, Mr. old guy, sorry. It's still not your fucking house.

Nice opinion. How about those facts? Your statement is the typical one from anti-gun people. "They're all gonna get drunk and shoot each other". Fact is most of those students never will get a permit OR carry ever, much less on campus. The ones that do get permits are typically the more responsible ones which is why I asked you to find some news reports of 21 yo's shooting up the town while they're drunk. OH, They only drink and act stupid on college campuses don't they?! And study up more on your "old west" lore, there were very few places that ever tried that. You've been watching too many movies.

[Avatard]

I'm not anti-gun at all. I just think young people are fucking retarded.

[L8 Braker]

Which is why I said it's a good idea for the Administration, but perhaps not the students.Two things...
--You must be 21 in Texas to carry
--Very, very few people actually carry a firearm on them at all times

So, the the number of those actually carrying would be minimal, at best...One might say so minimal, that it's a non issue...

I think people have this vision of the old west, everyone walking around with a gun belt, a Colt .45 on each hip, waiting for someone to "give them some lip", thus promting a shootout...

But the facts, and they are facts, are that people carry legally every day with no problems...They just don't do it in certain geographical areas due to laws...This law wouldn't have anything but a positive impact...

[Avatard]

I don't think the fucking total teenage mental retardation wears off until mid 20s, even up to 30 for some. You talk to any young people lately? Read anything they've written?

Scary. We're fucked.

[L8 Braker]

I don't think the fucking total teenage mental retardation wears off until mid 20s, even up to 30 for some. You talk to any young people lately? Read anything they've written?

Scary. We're fucked.I don't know...It seems to be working out pretty well...

Lots and lots and lots and lots of 20 somethings running around with a concealed weapon...And yet, not one single problem...Maybe you're just not giving people enough credit?...Or you have a superiority complex?

[EpyonXero]

As someone who has worked in a university for the past 13 years, I think that this is a monumentally stupid idea.

I was a student not too long ago and most of those dumbasses shouldnt be driving, let alone keeping guns in their dorms or carrying them to class.

[Avatard]

I don't know...It seems to be working out pretty well...

Lots and lots and lots and lots of 20 somethings running around with a concealed weapon...And yet, not one single problem...Maybe you're just not giving people enough credit?...Or you have a superiority complex?

Nah, I have a teen. I talk to a bunch of young people.

Yep. We're fucked.

[L8 Braker]

Yep. We're fucked.Do you think they said that about you when you were "young"?

[Papa_Complex]

Do you think they said that about you when you were "young"?

Of course they did. Given the state of the world today, do you think that they were wrong?

[marko138]

In GA, it is illegal to consume alcohol while carrying a concealed weapon, you go to jail for that. I think all states have that in their CC laws. I agree with the rest of your post too :dthumb:

Actually, there is no law in PA about how much alcohol you can or cannot consume will in possession of a firearm.

[Avatard]

Do you think they said that about you when you were "young"?

When I was young, I was totally fucking retarded. Miracle that I fucking survived my youth. I'm one of the ones that probably took longer than most to grow the fuck up. I drove everything like I stole it. Like I was in a fucking road rally. Shit like you see on COPS today.

That whole "risk assessment" thing is just broken in young people.

[L8 Braker]

When I was young, I was totally fucking retarded. Miracle that I fucking survived my youth. I'm one of the ones that probably took longer than most to grow the fuck up. I drove everything like I stole it. Like I was in a fucking road rally. Shit like you see on COPS today.
And yet, you seem to have turned out OK?

[Avatard]

Miracle. I know that now.

I used to think I could never hit anything, that anything could be avoided, because I was simply a badass. Truth is, I was just lucky.

Meanwhile, years later, after I had "retired" from driving like a complete asshole, that point was driven home when a child literally threw himself into my windshield, running without looking into the side of my car - the irony, of course, being that I wasn't speeding and still couldn't save the situation.

No.

I know now what I got away with as a kid was just pure luck. Risk assessment is lacking in young people. Science fact.

[goof2]

I understand the reluctance to have a bunch of idiot kids running around with guns to a point, but those idiot kids have been able to get concealed weapons permits in Texas for 15 years. While I don't live in Texas, I think an epidemic of drunken shoot-em-ups perpetrated by permitted idiot kids probably would have been national news. To me at least that potential problem hasn't appeared to be an issue.

[Cutty72]

Actually, there is no law in PA about how much alcohol you can or cannot consume will in possession of a firearm.

Even carrying concealed?

[RACER X]

This is z. My dean sent out a "concerned"/"heads up" email about this today. I guarantee if my students are allowed to pack, I will be too. My biggest concern will be when "talks" have to be made to under achieving students...

[JoshuaTree]

I wonder what the press is going to be like the first time a co-ed saves herself from a rape by supplying the assailant with a .38 caliber vasectomy? I wonder if all of the hand-wringing of "the evil gun in the hands of feral children" will be remembered? ;)

[t-homo]

agree but, what about in the dorms? it would seem a 21 year old carrying out in society, where all ages and mentalitys are, they would think responsibly. now put that 21 year old in a dorm full of 18 - 24 year olds, at least one of whom will say "hey johnny has a gun". next statement is "hey let me see it" "no I can't"
"let me see it and I'll let you see my ....."
or
"let me see it or I'll take it"

too much testosterone and immaturity in a dorm. there is no way they would keep it hidden from roommates and what not.

I guess I would agree they could carry in class but not in the dorms if that makes sense.

Didn't read through the full second two pages of the thread, I am sure a gun would be on the list of things you can't have if you live in the dorms. And what kind of doucher still lives in the dorms as a junior/senior?

[Papa_Complex]

I wonder what the press is going to be like the first time a co-ed saves herself from a rape by supplying the assailant with a .38 caliber vasectomy? I wonder if all of the hand-wringing of "the evil gun in the hands of feral children" will be remembered? ;)

Given that campus attacks are generally ambush or date rape, situations in which it's very unlikely to be able to use a firearm, odds are that they would call such an incident "murder."

[nhgunnut]

The reality is that if an individual has a concealed carry permit, seeking higher education should not deprive them of that right. Concealed carry is allowed in almost every state.I believe the most liberal (at so many Levels) remains Vermont, where all you need to carry a concealed weapon is a clean record and a Pocket. The whole gun free zone is amusing to me because I took my first firearms safety course a the age of 13 in my 9th grade history class room. (I brought a Sear and Roebuck J.C Higgins 12 Gauge Single Shot)

[Papa_Complex]

Having a concealed carry permit in no way precludes someone from seeking higher education though actually exercising it, on school grounds, may. The gun isn't grafted to your body.

[t-homo]

95% of college parties are off campus so they can already carry them there if they wanted to. Yet, young people are the retarded ones.

[z06boy]

I understand the reluctance to have a bunch of idiot kids running around with guns to a point, but those idiot kids have been able to get concealed weapons permits in Texas for 15 years. While I don't live in Texas, I think an epidemic of drunken shoot-em-ups perpetrated by permitted idiot kids probably would have been national news. To me at least that potential problem hasn't appeared to be an issue.

Agreed

There are 'some' good points being brought up by the "don't think it's a good idea" crowd but overall since you first have to be 21 to even obtain the permit...this will rule out most college kids from carrying concealed anyway.

[shmike]

This is z. My dean sent out a "concerned"/"heads up" email about this today. I guarantee if my students are allowed to pack, I will be too. My biggest concern will be when "talks" have to be made to under achieving students...


Weren't you a student just about 2 years ago?

[RACER X]

Weren't you a student just about 2 years ago?

Got my msn in December

[Twobanger]

Like has been posted already, having to be 21 to get your CHL means the vast majority of students carrying will be Seniors and grad students.

Hopefully we can get the parking lot bill passed as well.

[101lifts2]

If we are looking at just shear death numbers it is a bad idea. If we are looking at reducing the "30 people killed by a lone gunman" in place of 45 separate shootings, then yes.

[pickle.of.doom]

Wait til little Hormonal Sally wants to get back at Billy for breaking up with her :)

[z06boy]

Wait til little Hormonal Sally wants to get back at Billy for breaking up with her :)

Well if she's that upset and willing to kill him I think she could/would still do it. She could still buy a gun without the permit...it may just be sitting at home in a drawer instead of her pocketbook. I don't see how this has anything to do with a conceal carry permit. :scratch:

[marko138]

Even carrying concealed?

Correct. You can have a case of beer consumed and still legally carry your weapon.

Now, should you need to use that weapon your chances of justifying it with a .20 BAC is going to be difficult, to say the least.

[Trip]

Correct. You can have a case of beer consumed and still legally carry your weapon.

Now, should you need to use that weapon your chances of justifying it with a .20 BAC is going to be difficult, to say the least.

If you also get in trouble with the law while intoxicated and carrying, the cops will request suspension of your license.

[marko138]

If you also get in trouble with the law while intoxicated and carrying, the cops will request suspension of your license.
Sure. I'm just saying there's no specific law against it in the Commonwealth.