Gas price question

[tommymac]

Was listening to the radio today and they were saying these rising prices are all due to the speculators and there hasnt been any actual decrease in oil output. So now that were paying alot more for this allegedly more scarce oil who is getting rich off of this aside from the oil companies?

[goof2]

There has been a reduction in oil output due to the problems in Libya, though nobody really knows how much the supply has been reduced so far.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/07/oil-libya-idUSLDE7260SL20110307

There is also a certain degree of unrest in some other oil producing countries that could lead to further disruption in supply.

Some other factors are in place as well. The value of the dollar has been dropping recently which raises the price of all commodities for us. Then there is the nascent "recovery" that we are being told is happening which, if true, should also increase demand for oil while at the same time the world supply is stagnant or dropping.

Part of the price increase is due to speculators and part is due to factors outside their control. Regardless, I believe their speculation is sensible.

[Papa_Complex]

Correction: Saudi Arabia stated that they would ramp up production, to offset any reductions from Libya. In other words, no reduction in supply.

[tommymac]

There has been a reduction in oil output due to the problems in Libya, though nobody really knows how much the supply has been reduced so far.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/07/oil-libya-idUSLDE7260SL20110307

There is also a certain degree of unrest in some other oil producing countries that could lead to further disruption in supply.

Some other factors are in place as well. The value of the dollar has been dropping recently which raises the price of all commodities for us. Then there is the nascent "recovery" that we are being told is happening which, if true, should also increase demand for oil while at the same time the world supply is stagnant or dropping.

Part of the price increase is due to speculators and part is due to factors outside their control. Regardless, I believe their speculation is sensible.



Good info but that didnt answer my question as to whos getting this extra money were shelling out.

From what I had heard on the radio last week none o flibyas oil comes here, it all goes to europe and supposedly saudi arabia was bumping up output. Granted I am sure a lot has changed since last week, and who knows whats going to happen with these other countries.

[EpyonXero]

Correction: Saudi Arabia stated that they would ramp up production, to offset any reductions from Libya. In other words, no reduction in supply.

However, the quality of the oil that Lybia produces is much better than the type that comes from Saudia Arabia and takes less work to refine. So even if SA is able to make up the difference, the price will still go up.

[Papa_Complex]

People who play the commodities market are the ones who benefit. They can also steer the price. For example one investor, in England, was alone responsible for oil hitting the US$100.00 per barrel mark for the first time. Why? Because he specifically paid that amount, because HE WANTED to be able to say, that he was the first person to pay it.

[goof2]

Good info but that didnt answer my question as to whos getting this extra money were shelling out.

From what I had heard on the radio last week none o flibyas oil comes here, it all goes to europe and supposedly saudi arabia was bumping up output. Granted I am sure a lot has changed since last week, and who knows whats going to happen with these other countries.

Libya's oil primarily goes to Europe, but if that supply diminishes the Europeans have to look elsewhere to make up that shortfall. Those purchases from other places create a ripple effect throughout the oil market. Saudi Arabia has said they would increase their production, but will not say by how much since it may aggravate other OPEC countries. At this point nobody really knows how much additional oil SA is producing.

As for the extra money most of it will be going to oil companies, or in the case of state owned companies like most in the Middle East it goes to the "state", otherwise known as the royal families or the people in power.

[tommymac]

I just want to know who to curse/direct my anger at when I am filling up ;)

[goof2]

People who play the commodities market are the ones who benefit. They can also steer the price. For example one investor, in England, was alone responsible for oil hitting the US$100.00 per barrel mark for the first time. Why? Because he specifically paid that amount, because HE WANTED to be able to say, that he was the first person to pay it.

The people who play the commodities markets right are the ones who benefit. The oil prices you see quoted are not what someone is paying to buy a barrel of oil immediately. The prices typically reflect a one month futures contract. That is why they call them speculators. They are buying oil for next month and speculating on what will be a good price. If they do it well they pay less than what the spot price ends up being next month. If they do it poorly they pay more.

They can also only steer the price to the point others are willing to follow. As prices have continued to rise the guy you mentioned from England looks pretty smart and may make some money. If prices hadn't risen, or end up falling he looks pretty dumb and looses some money.

[goof2]

I just want to know who to curse/direct my anger at when I am filling up ;)

Unlike most other goods, with oil the people who stand to make money from the price increases aren't necessarily the same people affecting the price increases. Obviously with the OPEC countries that direct relationship exists, but in this case Saudi Arabia for example is acting contrary to making the most money.

[Papa_Complex]

The people who play the commodities markets right are the ones who benefit. The oil prices you see quoted are not what someone is paying to buy a barrel of oil immediately. The prices typically reflect a one month futures contract. That is why they call them speculators. They are buying oil for next month and speculating on what will be a good price. If they do it well they pay less than what the spot price ends up being next month. If they do it poorly they pay more.

They can also only steer the price to the point others are willing to follow. As prices have continued to rise the guy you mentioned from England looks pretty smart and may make some money. If prices hadn't risen, or end up falling he looks pretty dumb and looses some money.

He looked like a dumbass then, because he overpaid just to say that he was the first.

[Particle Man]

Either way, we're getting effed...

[TYEster]

I hate paying for fuel. I don't really have anything else to say or contribute here because I don't know how the system works.

[tommymac]

I hate paying for fuel. I don't really have anything else to say or contribute here because I don't know how the system works.

Guess we can both learn then :)

I just keep topping off the car now since it seems like it will be increasing daily now.

one station in NYC is already being investigated for price gouging, theyr over 4 dollars already.

[TYEster]

Guess we can both learn then :)

I just keep topping off the car now since it seems like it will be increasing daily now.

one station in NYC is already being investigated for price gouging, theyr over 4 dollars already.

I don't know if I want to know though. I think it would really piss me off more. I know gas prices were higher due to things like barrel cost but I assumed what we pay at the pump has more to do with a federal tax that our government put on it. Kinda like a few years back when they jumped and our economy headed downhill quickly after. I'm sure there's a few other factors, like a black man getting elected or whatever that people want to blame. But I believed it was the outrageous gas prices that really tipped the scale.

Being ignorant sometimes has saved my blood pressure from going up, so I don't know if that's specifically the case, but its the opinion I had. If someone can answer that then I'm all open to listening.

[HokieDNA01]

I believe the share holders make more money when gas prices are high. My dad is big in the oil stock market and always seems to be happy when prices are high. Before you start cursing my dad...just be aware that anyone can buy in and they also are highly volitile

[derf]

Just lucky now that I fill up my truck (maybe) once every few weeks, it was 3.37 today

[r1chica]

one thing is for damn sure - I'm commuting on the bike a HELL of a lot more now. It gets double the gas mileage as my car.

[HokieDNA01]

My accord gets 26-30mpg of regular and the bike gets ~35-40mpg of premium so its a toss up

[Particle Man]

I will be working from home a lot.

[racedoll]

I'd like to know why premium has to be more and why it is not consistently $0.20 more. In some cases it's much more than that.

[tommymac]

I'd like to know why premium has to be more and why it is not consistently $0.20 more. In some cases it's much more than that.

well its better gas so it has to be more. I used to kinda know the answer to that, but my days of organic chemistry were many beers ago :lol:

[racedoll]

well its better gas so it has to be more. I used to kinda know the answer to that, but my days of organic chemistry were many beers ago :lol:

You'd think, but (switching gears here) isn't diesel fuel less refined than gasoline? If so, then why is it even more? And what is the point of using bio-diesel when it's $3.99/gal ($0.10 more than regular, low-sulfur stuff).

I downloaded the gas buddy app for my phone a few months ago. It is a wonderful thing, especially with prices like they are. I can kind of plan my next fill up accordingly since the gas just north of me is generally $0.10/gallon or more, LESS than south of me in the town where I work. Amazing that 10-15 miles can make such a difference.

[goof2]

I'd like to know why premium has to be more and why it is not consistently $0.20 more. In some cases it's much more than that.

Why does racing fuel cost $10, $15, or $30 per gallon? I'm no chemist but I suspect the refining process is more involved, the refiners put in more additives, and they want to make more profit on the premium product. The perceived and actual value attached to premium allows them to charge more and that more varies depending on refining costs, additive costs, and what the consumer is willing to pay.

[Rangerscott]

You'd think, but (switching gears here) isn't diesel fuel less refined than gasoline? If so, then why is it even more? And what is the point of using bio-diesel when it's $3.99/gal ($0.10 more than regular, low-sulfur stuff).

I downloaded the gas buddy app for my phone a few months ago. It is a wonderful thing, especially with prices like they are. I can kind of plan my next fill up accordingly since the gas just north of me is generally $0.10/gallon or more, LESS than south of me in the town where I work. Amazing that 10-15 miles can make such a difference.


Diesel is less refined. I believe it's still considered "crude."

What makes the different gasoline ratings is what additives are put in them and what company is putting what additives in their gasoline. I've been told that gasoline is refined and that is what it is. It's the additives that change it's ratings.

[azoomm]

You'd think, but (switching gears here) isn't diesel fuel less refined than gasoline? If so, then why is it even more? And what is the point of using bio-diesel when it's $3.99/gal ($0.10 more than regular, low-sulfur stuff).

Diesel is the most used fuel by our military. Let's just say, supply is lower because we're involved in multiple war-games.

There are multiple issues going on right now. Not only did a really great supply option with REALLY high quality stop. But, did y'all know that WE aren't drilling in the gulf? Other countries are... WE aren't.

YAY.

[CasterTroy]

WE aren't drilling in the gulf? Other countries are... WE aren't.

YAY.

Thanks Mr Pres. :skep:

[tommymac]

Thanks Mr Pres. :skep:

Hope and change.

[goof2]

To be fair gas and oil prices got higher than they currently are before Obama became President. That was really only due to supply and demand perceptions and at least Bush was trying to do something about our supply (and was being fought at every turn for it). The reaction to the BP fiasco has seemed to effectively prevent new exploration and production in the Gulf of Mexico (at least in American waters) while ANWR will remain off limits for the foreseeable future.

The issues with the supply and demand curves 3 years ago that drove prices so high were only temporarily alleviated by the recession or whatever you want to call it. This has been a Sword of Damocles since then, only needing the economy to improve before becoming a problem again. It happened faster than I thought due to the unrest in the Middle East and the devaluation of the dollar, but it was going to happen regardless.

The politicians need to wake up and realize that, no matter how much they wish it weren't the case, America's economy currently depends on oil, preferably cheap, to function. Dreaming about a world powered by windmills, solar cells, corn, and unicorn farts is nice but at this point, and despite being heavily subsidized, I don't believe they can even keep up with the new energy requirements each year much less make a dent in existing demand. None of them qualify as cheap either. People make fun of the simplistic nature of "Drill Here, Drill Now" but it really is just that simple.

[Cutty72]

Diesel is the most used fuel by our military. Let's just say, supply is lower because we're involved in multiple war-games.

There are multiple issues going on right now. Not only did a really great supply option with REALLY high quality stop. But, did y'all know that WE aren't drilling in the gulf? Other countries are... WE aren't.

YAY.

Actually, there is very little diesel used in the military. Active duty units are pretty much using JP8 exclusively now, which resembles kerosene more than diesel.

What I don't get it the HUGE variance in price from place to place. Diesel is 3.68 here, gas is 3.27. In AZ diesel is 3.99 gas is 3.65. In CA diesel is 4.35, gas is 4.05. Besides CA being full of communist bastards, why the huge bump in price?

[Adeptus_Minor]

Actually, there is very little diesel used in the military. Active duty units are pretty much using JP8 exclusively now, which resembles kerosene more than diesel.



Perhaps, but ships, trains, and the commercial trucking industry all put high demands on diesel. Those are partially driven by the needs of the military here and abroad. :wink:

[Papa_Complex]

Actually, there is very little diesel used in the military. Active duty units are pretty much using JP8 exclusively now, which resembles kerosene more than diesel.

What I don't get it the HUGE variance in price from place to place. Diesel is 3.68 here, gas is 3.27. In AZ diesel is 3.99 gas is 3.65. In CA diesel is 4.35, gas is 4.05. Besides CA being full of communist bastards, why the huge bump in price?

Could well be taxes. That's the majority of the difference between our price and yours, for example.

[tommymac]

with the market tanking today, oil went down 3 dollars a barrel, wonder if I will see the price go down as fast as these fuckers raise them.

Ok I feel better now.

[Papa_Complex]

with the market tanking today, oil went down 3 dollars a barrel, wonder if I will see the price go down as fast as these fuckers raise them.

Ok I feel better now.

Unlikely.

And with our dollar at US1.03 I'm wishing that I had some camera equipment that I wanted to buy from B&H :lol:

[racedoll]

with the market tanking today, oil went down 3 dollars a barrel, wonder if I will see the price go down as fast as these fuckers raise them.

Ok I feel better now.

Nope. I got an email today saying the prices in this area are expected to rise and by lunch one station was up from $3.43 to $3.58.

[goof2]

Oil was down earlier but ended the day up a little bit higher.

[Rangerscott]

I wish when I did my engine swap I would have had the money to put in a turbo desiel. Would be cool to use cooking oil.

[Cutty72]

I wish when I did my engine swap I would have had the money to put in a turbo desiel. Would be cool to use cooking oil.

I need to work on the kit for that... try to make this $4 fuel a little cheaper.