You paid more in taxes than America's largest corporation

[Kaneman]

http://www.good.is/post/how-american...taxes-in-2010/
If you pay taxes at all, even one penny, then you paid more to Uncle Sam than a multi-billion company according to the The New York Times.

General Electric, what the Times calls America's largest corporation, paid no taxes at all in 2010 despite global pre-tax income of more than $14 billion.

A full $5.1 billion of that was earned in the United States. This is the second year in a row they've managed to completely avoid taxes. But get this, not only did GE pay absolutely no taxes in 2010 or 2009, but they actually pocketed more than $3 billion in government tax credits according to the Times. The government paid GE.

And by comparison a nifty picture slide show of what the top 25 businesses in America paid.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-corporate-taxes_slide.html

[KSGregman]

I read that this morning in the NY Times....been chewing on it all day....the story goes along perfectly with the book I just finished reading.

Winner Take All Politics by Jacob Hacker.

We don't have a Republic anymore...and it stopped being "by the people, for the people" a LONG time ago. Our government is own by large corporations.

[Kaneman]

Top story on Huffpost is about corporations making the biggest profits ever while everyone else is getting fucked, which also ties in nicely.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/25/corporate-profits-2011-all-time-high_n_840538.html

America. Fuck yea.

[pauldun170]

Overall the tax rates are pretty comparable to what tax payers pay. Some companies have special circumstances whee they dont pay anything but so do many tax payers.

[goof2]

They shouldn't have to pay American taxes on income generated overseas that stays overseas. Of course with America having a combined state and federal corporate tax rate that is one of the highest in the world it effectively guarantees that income will never be coming back.

[pauldun170]

Of course with America having a combined state and federal corporate tax rate that is one of the highest in the world

Yeah...I'm mean look at Hungary...they are taxing half of what we tax.
How the fuck are we ever going to compete? Look what happened to Japan!? They tax more then we do and Japan's industry is non existent because all those Japanese companies went to Hungary and Latvia

Unless we talk about effective tax rates...where compnayies such as GE or BOA pay 3 bucks a year....then we totally rock Hungary.
and just about everybody else

[Homeslice]

What % of GE's global income was generated overseas?

[derf]

What % of GE's global income was generated overseas?


They lost a few billion here in the US and made a few billion more than they lost overseas. Basically any money that they actually made as profit was generated overseas, and their overseas ventures propped up their US busineses.

[goof2]

Yeah...I'm mean look at Hungary...they are taxing half of what we tax.
How the fuck are we ever going to compete? Look what happened to Japan!? They tax more then we do and Japan's industry is non existent because all those Japanese companies went to Hungary and Latvia

Unless we talk about effective tax rates...where compnayies such as GE or BOA pay 3 bucks a year....then we totally rock Hungary.
and just about everybody else

The Forbes article Kaneman posted says GE specifically has $84 billion in income they are keeping overseas indefinitely. You can dismiss the idea but the effect is real.:shrug:

[Homeslice]

They lost a few billion here in the US and made a few billion more than they lost overseas. Basically any money that they actually made as profit was generated overseas, and their overseas ventures propped up their US busineses.

And are 100% of those overseas operations able to operate without any help from people here in the US........kinda doubt it

Sick of GE.......they think their shit doesn't stink ever since Welch wrote that management book 15-20 years ago. And HR idiots from other companies ate it hook line and sinker.

[shmike]

And are 100% of those overseas operations able to operate without any help from people here in the US........kinda doubt it

Sick of GE.......they think their shit doesn't stink ever since Welch wrote that management book 15-20 years ago. And HR idiots from other companies ate it hook line and sinker.

What does that matter?

If they have offices here, they pay real estate taxes.

If they have staff here, they pay payroll taxes.

If they made no money here, why would they pay income taxes here? :scratch:

[pauldun170]

Whats the issue here? Corporations taking advantage of the tax code?

[goof2]

Whats the issue here? Corporations taking advantage of the tax code?

Basically. What it means, what should be done about it, and what will result from any changes are not so clear cut though.

[Particle Man]

Whats the issue here? Corporations taking advantage of the tax code?

Ever read Tom Clancy's Executive Orders?

[smileyman]

I read that this morning in the NY Times....been chewing on it all day....the story goes along perfectly with the book I just finished reading.

Winner Take All Politics by Jacob Hacker.

We don't have a Republic anymore...and it stopped being "by the people, for the people" a LONG time ago. Our government is own by large corporations.

Word!

Top story on Huffpost is about corporations making the biggest profits ever while everyone else is getting fucked, which also ties in nicely.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/25/corporate-profits-2011-all-time-high_n_840538.html

America. Fuck yea.

Truth.

[smileyman]

What does that matter?

If they have offices here, they pay real estate taxes.

If they have staff here, they pay payroll taxes.

If they made no money here, why would they pay income taxes here? :scratch:

As a penalty for taking US income taxes and corporate profit away from the place where their products are sold? For selling out our countries long term for the sake of their short term profits? For taking US investment dollars and making other countries economies more viable than our own?

[KSGregman]

Whats the issue here? Corporations taking advantage of the tax code?

Look closer.....

The corporations essentially WRITE the tax code....or have the politicians they own write the tax code that is most favorable to them FOR them.

[goof2]

As a penalty for taking US income taxes and corporate profit away from the place where their products are sold? For selling out our countries long term for the sake of their short term profits? For taking US investment dollars and making other countries economies more viable than our own?

OK, so you want to punish them for avoiding some taxes by trying to make them pay more taxes? You realize there is nothing preventing these companies from moving everything they possibly can overseas including their headquarters, something most large American corporations have not done so far? You are seeing what they are doing about their current tax burden in this country. There is a pretty good chance they will take further steps if that tax burden is further increased.

[smileyman]

OK, so you want to punish them for avoiding some taxes by trying to make them pay more taxes? You realize there is nothing preventing these companies from moving everything they possibly can overseas including their headquarters, something most large American corporations have not done so far? You are seeing what they are doing about their current tax burden in this country. There is a pretty good chance they will take further steps if that tax burden is further increased.

Good. Have them move. At least that way we can control their interest with appropriate tarriffs. Better than having them here buying elections with Supreme Court allowed P.A.C funds. Better than having our country controlled by corporate dollars instead of peoples votes...

[smileyman]

Look closer.....

The corporations essentially WRITE the tax code....or have the politicians they own write the tax code that is most favorable to them FOR them.

Truth. Government by the corporations, for the corporations, blah blah blah...All supported by working tax paying citizens...

[goof2]

Good. Have them move. At least that way we can control their interest with appropriate tarriffs. Better than having them here buying elections with Supreme Court allowed P.A.C funds. Better than having our country controlled by corporate dollars instead of peoples votes...

The problem is none of that would change. About the only differences would be employing fewer Americans in order to avoid higher taxes. If GE were to move their corporate headquarters to Switzerland, Bermuda, or the Cayman Islands you think they would stop lobbying for every benefit they can possibly get from the "Green Economy" government slop trough? You seem to have the idea that these corporations should operate as sort of philanthropic organizations. That doesn't work particularly well.

What you want, higher corporate taxes, results in the corporation avoiding them as much as possible while raising prices to offset the taxes they can't avoid. The majority of taxes a corporation is going to pay in America will come straight out of the pocket of an American who buys their product. If you want to see a benefit from a corporation's operations either go work for them or invest your money with them.

[smileyman]

The problem is none of that would change. About the only differences would be employing fewer Americans in order to avoid higher taxes. If GE were to move their corporate headquarters to Switzerland, Bermuda, or the Cayman Islands you think they would stop lobbying for every benefit they can possibly get from the "Green Economy" government slop trough? You seem to have the idea that these corporations should operate as sort of philanthropic organizations. That doesn't work particularly well.

What you want, higher corporate taxes, results in the corporation avoiding them as much as possible while raising prices to offset the taxes they can't avoid. The majority of taxes a corporation is going to pay in America will come straight out of the pocket of an American who buys their product. If you want to see a benefit from a corporation's operations either go work for them or invest your money with them.

You dont have to be philanthropic or charitable to be responsible. These corporations do not reinvest their wealth and profit, they hoard. Think of all us consumers as cattle. We consume, we reproduce, they reap. If they dont feed the cattle it stops. Nothing for us to send them in way of capitol investment, nothing to boost their profit from increased sales. You have to reinvest with the ones who support you.

[goof2]

You dont have to be philanthropic or charitable to be responsible. These corporations do not reinvest their wealth and profit, they hoard. Think of all us consumers as cattle. We consume, we reproduce, they reap. If they dont feed the cattle it stops. Nothing for us to send them in way of capitol investment, nothing to boost their profit from increased sales. You have to reinvest with the ones who support you.

Fine, but that happens through their costs of doing business like paying employees, buying parts/raw materials for their products, and making capital investments. GE for example has factories all over the country and it costs them money to operate those factories. Those are the payments that actually go to the people buying their products directly or indirectly.

What they are hoarding overseas is done because the government's tax policy has made that the most financially advantageous strategy for GE to take. For the most part paying more taxes doesn't "feed the cattle", it feeds the parasitic insects that suck off the cattle. A corporation that pays more than is required is not being responsible to those they actually answer to, their shareholders, their stakeholders, and their employees. This is especially true since ultimately that "extra" money is coming from their consumers in the first place.

[smileyman]

There's a yin to that yang. Them paying an appropriate portion of their taxes eases the burden on tax payers to invest money with them and buy their products.

I know they are avoiding taxes for the good of the share holders and profit, but if everyone does that where does it leave our country? With only W4 wage earners to pay for everything who do they hope will buy their products? Is having them employ some of those W4 folks worth them not paying taxes? Or getting the huge tax credits from the government?

There has to be a balance and a circulation. I'm certain I do not want the government controlling private enterprise. I also dont want private enterprise controlling the government. Which is my main concern, not whether they got off light on taxes.

[goof2]

There's a yin to that yang. Them paying an appropriate portion of their taxes eases the burden on tax payers to invest money with them and buy their products.

I know they are avoiding taxes for the good of the share holders and profit, but if everyone does that where does it leave our country? With only W4 wage earners to pay for everything who do they hope will buy their products? Is having them employ some of those W4 folks worth them not paying taxes? Or getting the huge tax credits from the government?

There has to be a balance and a circulation. I'm certain I do not want the government controlling private enterprise. I also dont want private enterprise controlling the government. Which is my main concern, not whether they got off light on taxes.

The "appropriate" portion of their taxes will come from one of two places, either making their products more expensive (burden on the consumer/less competitive in international marketplace/hurts sales) or cutting costs (a host of methods but no real help to the company long term).

Ultimately a company is going to do what is necessary to maintain profits. If the government decides to implement policies in a futile attempt to make sure they don't "get off light on taxes" you can pretty much bet it will come at the expense of those W-4 wage earners.