Clutchless Upshifting

[Crazy]

How many of you guys do this regularly? I tried it today for the first time, and it seemed pretty smooth (after the first couple which were jerky) but I've heard its bad for your transmission...?? :idk:

[Dave]

there was a huge thread about this on the previous forum with lots of info posted by otb. Basically, sport bike trannys are just like sequential dogboxes and its not going to hurt them much if at all. i do it regularly, still clutch second though

[Crazy]

I was trying it in 3rd gear and up... 1st to 2nd is always too much of a jump.

I searched on the forum and didnt find anything so i thought i'd make a new topic... I don't go to the old place much

[JK]

i do it regularly. I Pre pressure the shifter then quick short close blip to unload the tranny and youre in.

[Dnyce]

yea big long informative thread over there...long story short, do it right, no probs, even on the 1-2 shift. sportbike trannys come with the gears backcut already

[DLIT]

It won't hurt it if it's done smoothly. I still clutch it to get to 2nd still. On the street, I use the clutch a lot more because I'm not always high in the revs.

[azoomm]

As they've said, no problem if it's done right.

Though, a clutch is cheaper than a transmission....

[Audiomechanic]

Shoot, I do it on the Magna if I'm riding somewhat spirited, and that's a cruiser! It's a quick rev-er though. It definitly doesn't seem to mind. Don't try on a Hardely. ;) I clutch the 1-2 shift though like others have said. I'm not quite good enough to master that one.

[Dave]

yeah supposedly hd's have some very different tranny design

[FT BSTRD]

I do it on a Buell. Similar transmission to some HD models. Dog cut gears and beefy internals.

No problems.

3rd or higher, though. Missed gear lower gets damn squirly with high torque.

[Amber Lamps]

I always use the clutch. It's a good habit. I had three transmissions repaired between a FZR1000 and a YZF1000,although I admit,I was trying to constantly do it from 1st to 2nd and was killing my shift-dogs and losing 2nd. I honestly don't see any reason not to clutch on the street. But if you're serious about not clutching,I'd get an ignition interrupter or quick shifter.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_iii_usb/powercommander_quick_shifter.aspx

[OneSickPsycho]

Tried it, didn't like it, never got the feel for it... do it sparringy.

[Mr Lefty]

I do it most of the time... I actually tend to get the false neutral less when clutchless shifting than with the clutch... :idk:

[Vettezilla (Impala Balko)]

I clutchless upshift and down shift. IF they are done right it will not damage anything and it should be smoot as glass

[Cutty72]

I do it sometimes. It actually seems smoother on the 1125 than it did on my SV :idk:

[Dnyce]

every1 should be able to half ass do it in case a cable snaps or m/c goes out, so u can get home. other than that, its just a fun skill to have, great for the track

goin from 1st to 2nd is a skill in itself because of nuetral-once you can do that, the rest of em are cake

[Gas Man]

agreed dynce... I know a few big dog guys and custom cruisers do it after a cable snap... its all gravy as long as you don't stop!! When I had a clutch problem on my bike ealier I made it like 18 miles down a 45mph city road thru probably 22 lights... no stopping!! Luckily it was like 2300 at night!

[Crazy]

haha yeah ppl always say its a good skill too have in case your clutch cable snaps... wtf do u do if you hit a red light? just kill your bike? then you're stuck :lol: unless u get some to push start u again :rofl:

[Cutty72]

I have a hydraulic clutch... :idk:

[DLIT]

How do you clutchless downshift? What technique do you use? Only asking in case that's my only option.

[t-homo]

haha yeah ppl always say its a good skill too have in case your clutch cable snaps... wtf do u do if you hit a red light? just kill your bike? then you're stuck :lol: unless u get some to push start u again :rofl:

Pull the front brake and go into a burnout. Its all gravy.

What is the "correct technique" for clutchless up and down shifting?

[Crazy]

push up on the shifter just slightly to "preload the transmission". then as you rev up and get to the RPM you want to shift at, let off the throttle and get back on it immediately. thats it really, the bike should shift... its really not very complicated. but then neither is clutch shifting.

[Cutty72]

How do you clutchless downshift? What technique do you use? Only asking in case that's my only option.

same way you clutchless upshift, but backwards.

little pressure on the shift lever, off the gas then a quick blip and you're in the next lower gear.

[DLIT]

push up on the shifter just slightly to "preload the transmission". then as you rev up and get to the RPM you want to shift at, let off the throttle and get back on it immediately. thats it really, the bike should shift... its really not very complicated. but then neither is clutch shifting.

I know how to do that during clutchless upshifting, but didn't know if down was different.

[Crazy]

I was answering T-rock's question... idk about downshifts havent tried it.

[Amber Lamps]

Either this thread has been done before or it was on one of the other forums... Now I know that Rossi ,Pedrosa,et al are gods but whenever you see camera shots of their hands,they always clutch when they shift. Plus,I still don't understand why you wouldn't want to use the clutch. I mean if you have to roll off the throttle anyway,what do you gain? Please explain...

Ha I was right ! This same discussion is going on on TWO other forums I belong to! That's interesting.....kinda....

[DLIT]

Either this thread has been done before or it was on one of the other forums... Now I know that Rossi ,Pedrosa,et al are gods but whenever you see camera shots of their hands,they always clutch when they shift. Plus,I still don't understand why you wouldn't want to use the clutch. I mean if you have to roll off the throttle anyway,what do you gain? Please explain...

They clutch when downshifting, not upshifting though.

[Amber Lamps]

They clutch when downshifting, not upshifting though.

Hmmm... you're probably right. I bet they have ignition kill tech on their bikes for sure.

[DLIT]

Hmmm... you're probably right. I bet they have ignition kill tech on their bikes for sure.

They do. The quick-shifter is trickle-down tech from them.

[Dnyce]

They do. The quick-shifter is trickle-down tech from them.


thought it was a innovation from the airshifter ala drag racing

[DLIT]

thought it was a innovation from the airshifter ala drag racing

Could be. Forgot about the drag racers. I know that the old moto gp guys were using clutchless upshifts long before the quick-shifter. I just assumed that somebody with money got smart and made it happen.

[ceo012384]

I clutchless upshift every gear on the track including the 1-2 shift except for a couple places (like coming over the top of the hill in 5)

On the street I clutch more often unless I'm riding twisties, then it's mostly clutchless there too.

[Dnyce]

I just assumed that somebody with money got smart and made it happen.


yea pretty much

i'd say drag racing started it with the air shifter, cuz a drag bike has room for the tank and hoses and stuff, more so than a gp bike

and from that, along with all the electronic age of the 80's-most bikes had point ignitions up until 80 or 81 i believe-circuit racing produced the quickshifter.

[Dave]

hah its funny you guys brought up quickshifters, me and some friends were at gadson's today while ricky tuned my boy's zuk when they came up in conversation. in my opinion its kinda lazy, but then i ride on the street and so my opinions tend to be biased in that direction.

oh yeah, you guys remember those kawasaki go green sales event ads where they were trying to get their riders to wear goofy things? well ricky has his sequined light up green tracksuit hanging on the wall. pure awesomeness!

[ceo012384]

The quickshifters are nice when they work right... I've seen some people have trouble with them though.

With clutchless upshifts I can shift pretty damn fast... I'm not sure if a quickshifter is really necessary, since I'm not drag racing, ya know?

[Dnyce]

With clutchless upshifts I can shift pretty damn fast... I'm not sure if a quickshifter is really necessary, since I'm not drag racing, ya know?

or racing gp.

man speaks truth

[ceo012384]

And like I said I've seen people have trouble with them... my buddy was having a bitch of a time with his at the last track day... kept bouncing off the revlimiter like a missed shift.

[Amber Lamps]

That's truth! I had the Accumen set-up on my '03 GSXR. I didn't wire up the ignition kill but only used it for the gear indicator. That was a PITA,until I got it spot on perfect and it never gave me any more trouble.

Btw in the name of science,I shifted without the clutch today and it was fine. I know bikes have come along way since '95/'97 when I had problems with my FZR and YZF 1000s. I have to admit that it shifted very easily,especially down. In fact,I kept down shifting while I was attempting to "pre-load" the damn thing. I still think that I can shift just as fast either way but I guess it's nice to know the option is there if I want. That's what can be bad about being an "old dog",it can be hard to unlearn ingrained habits. Unless you had the gears undercut,you were looking for repair work if you didn't use the clutch back in the day.

[dReWpY]

what is this shifting thing you all are talking about?

[Cutty72]

what is this shifting thing you all are talking about?

what you do before you get to 3rd and run the piss out of your vtwin.

[Amber Lamps]

what is this shifting thing you all are talking about?

I'm sorry young one but the council has decided that you are not ready to go beyond first gear just yet. We will explain "shifting" when we feel that you can handle the gear that you have so far been provided. Have patience and all things will come to you...

[Vettezilla (Impala Balko)]

Realisticly you only need the clutch for starting off in 1st and for wheelies thats it bottom line :whistle:

[Cutty72]

Realisticly you only need the clutch for starting off in 1st and for wheelies thats it bottom line :whistle:

I don't need the clutch for wheelies...

you must be doing something wrong.

[Vettezilla (Impala Balko)]

I don't need the clutch for wheelies...

you must be doing something wrong.

I dont either but its easier to control when I clutch it up in second rather than powering in first.

[Cutty72]

I dont either but its easier to control when I clutch it up in second rather than powering in first.

I power it up in first... or second... and sometimes 3rd...
it's fun :dthumb:

[Amber Lamps]

I power it up in first... or second... and sometimes 3rd...
it's fun :dthumb:

Yea,he's got an older 750...I think the new GSXR750 will power up in 2nd. My bike will power up in third if you're doing over 100 mph to start with.

[Cutty72]

Yea,he's got an older 750...I think the new GSXR750 will power up in 2nd. My bike will power up in third if you're doing over 100 mph to start with.

yeah, i just love my V twin.

though the 08 1K can power it up a bit in 4th, if you blip it, pull on the bars and put your weight back just right... at 100+ no less...

[No Worries]

I'm curious as to what happens if you miss the clutchless upshift? I mean, what if you don't preload the shifter enough? What if you preload it too much? What if you don't roll off the throttle enough? What if you roll too much? Neutral? Grinding? Upshift two gears? Stay in the same gear?

I'm too settled in my clutch ways not to use it. The nanosecond I lose by using the clutch I'll make up on the next curve. Anyway, I like to upshift at my bike's torque peak. How many riders know their bike's torque peak?

[OneSickPsycho]

I'm curious as to what happens if you miss the clutchless upshift? I mean, what if you don't preload the shifter enough? What if you preload it too much? What if you don't roll off the throttle enough? What if you roll too much? Neutral? Grinding? Upshift two gears? Stay in the same gear?

I'm too settled in my clutch ways not to use it. The nanosecond I lose by using the clutch I'll make up on the next curve. Anyway, I like to upshift at my bike's torque peak. How many riders know their bike's torque peak?

Depends... Grinding sometimes... most of the time you don't shift.

[Crazy]

NW im not saying u should do it regularly but you sound like you've never done it before... so i'd suggest at least try it once.
I didnt do it so I can shave a few milliseconds off my shift time, I did it just out of curiosity.

[ceo012384]

I'm curious as to what happens if you miss the clutchless upshift? I mean, what if you don't preload the shifter enough? What if you preload it too much? What if you don't roll off the throttle enough? What if you roll too much? Neutral? Grinding? Upshift two gears? Stay in the same gear?

I'm too settled in my clutch ways not to use it. The nanosecond I lose by using the clutch I'll make up on the next curve. Anyway, I like to upshift at my bike's torque peak. How many riders know their bike's torque peak?

If you miss the shift and/or don't preload the shifter enough, it just won't shift, and you'll hit the revlimiter.

If you preload too much, it may click into the next gear before you mean for it to... and doing clutchless upshifts without rolling off the throttle a hair may be not great for your tranny.



It may not be sensible/necessary for your bike if you're already used to it, and especially if your shift points are far below your redline.

For me and my bike, I clutchless upshift because if I clutched my shifts at the rpm where I do them (literally at the redline) not only would the shifts be slower, but I'd probably be nailing the revlimiter pretty often as I pull the clutch in.

The torque peak of my bike requires you to rip all the way through the meat of the torque curve and past the peak, such that your upshift causes the next gear to land right back in the meat of the torque curve...

[Dnyce]

its sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo smooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth.... ..u barely move to do it, flick the wrist just barely, tweak the ankle alil... ROOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!R OOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!


:kawi:

[dReWpY]

i got the clutchless down shift down this weekend, buttery smooth, even the first time

[Amber Lamps]

i got the clutchless down shift down this weekend, buttery smooth, even the first time

Hey didn't I tell you that you aren't shift authorized ?

[Vettezilla (Impala Balko)]

Yea,he's got an older 750...I think the new GSXR750 will power up in 2nd. My bike will power up in third if you're doing over 100 mph to start with.

I can get it to power up a little in 2nd If i really work the suspension it should come up but I would rather clutch it. Its more predictable and easier to control

[Amber Lamps]

I can get it to power up a little in 2nd If i really work the suspension it should come up but I would rather clutch it. Its more predictable and easier to control


you know what? you ought to be ashamed! that girl can 12 o'clock your bike wearing nothing but a bikini,you shouldn't have any trouble at all!

[No Worries]

Well I did a bunch of clutchless shifts today. Upshifts, downshifts, accelerating, decelerating, high rpm and low rpm. it just snicks right into gear. But I had to think about preloading the lever. When I use the clutch it seems automatic without thinking. I'll probably shift again without the clutch, but 99.99 percent of the time I'll use the clutch.

[Amber Lamps]

Well I did a bunch of clutchless shifts today. Upshifts, downshifts, accelerating, decelerating, high rpm and low rpm. it just snicks right into gear. But I had to think about preloading the lever. When I use the clutch it seems automatic without thinking. I'll probably shift again without the clutch, but 99.99 percent of the time I'll use the clutch.

Man all the old dogs are learning new tricks!

[t-homo]

Man all the old dogs are learning new tricks!

shit, now he's going to be even more faster than us. Wow that was terrible grammar, but i didn't know how to work it.