For Homeslice: Mac people and PC people

[EpyonXero]

http://blog.hunch.com/?p=45344

http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/macpcinfo750.png

[Homeslice]

Quite revealing that PC people are more likely to want to fit in. Guess that destroys the claim that's always made here.

[Flexin]

52% of the Mac owners would take a Vespa. Enough said.

James

[Homeslice]

52% of the Mac owners would take a Vespa. Enough said.

James

Because Apple owners are more likely to be urban.........Harleys are useless in big cities IMO. Too big, too expensive, too much of a theft risk.

[shmike]

Because Apple owners are more likely to be gay.

Fixed.

[Dave]

Quite revealing that PC people are more likely to want to fit in. Guess that destroys the claim that's always made here.

Because the Mac Guy CLAIMS to individuality while in practice conforms his ass off to the Indie counterculture meme. Failboat

[askmrjesus]

Because the Mac Guy CLAIMS to individuality while in practice conforms his ass off to the Indie counterculture meme. Failboat

Yeah, fucking Mac guys and their stupid beards and Harleys and wait-

I'm confused now, who's gay again?

JC

[derf]

so according to the infographic above this simple trap will work well on mac users as well as hipsters?

http://www.incrediblethings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hipster-trap-urban-traps.jpg

[Trip]

If they are giving away a Vespa vs Harley, fuck yeah I want the Harley. I can sell that bitch for a lot more money to some stupid lawyer/accountant who wants to go to hooters. If I have to buy it, fuck yeah I would go Vespa over the Harley. I am not spending that much money on a bike the Vespa can out manuever. They are going to have to hold a gun to my head to make me buy either though.

[Homeslice]

BTW, this just proves that most stereotypes have a foundation of truth. There's a lot of people who bash stereotypes, saying how they know 1 person who doesn't fit the stereotype, like as if that invalidates the stereotype, lmao........ But then when a stereotype comes along that they agree with, they suddenly stop complaining, lol.

[Particle Man]

Because the Mac Guy CLAIMS to individuality while in practice conforms his ass off to the Indie counterculture meme. Failboat

They are unique.... JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE

Muhahahahahahaha

[Apoc]

Silly Mac people and their electronic typewriters.

My PC has an i7 960 extreme quad core, dual HD 5870 1GB video cards, and 8GB/RAM. Thats about 1/2 the price of the cheapest Mac Desktop, and 3 times more powerful than Mac's best.

[KSGregman]

Fixed.

Hahahaha.....nice shot. :lmao:

[Dave]

BTW, this just proves that most stereotypes have a foundation of truth. There's a lot of people who bash stereotypes, saying how they know 1 person who doesn't fit the stereotype, like as if that invalidates the stereotype, lmao........ But then when a stereotype comes along that they agree with, they suddenly stop complaining, lol.

typed over a bucket of fried chicken no doubt

[Homeslice]

typed over a bucket of fried chicken no doubt

:scratch: I'm as white as a ghost

[Avatard]

Silly Mac people and their electronic typewriters.

My PC has an i7 960 extreme quad core, dual HD 5870 1GB video cards, and 8GB/RAM. Thats about 1/2 the price of the cheapest Mac Desktop, and 3 times more powerful than Mac's best.

And what can you do with it? Play games?

Video is done on a Mac.

Graphics are done on Macs.

Music is done on Macs.

Most leading edge scientific and research software is written first for Mac.

In a big company, the pleebs have PCs, and the Execs have Macs.

Hating on one or the other is fucking retarded.

If you're a serious business person, you probably need both.

Incidentally, the only option that lets you boot both Windows and Mac is, well...a Mac.

:idk:

[Papa_Complex]

My Mac IS a PC.

I do my photo editing on a PC.

Oh well. No wonder I don't fit in with the artsy photogs.

[Apoc]

And what can you do with it? Play games?

Video is done on a Mac.

Graphics are done on Macs.

Music is done on Macs.

Most leading edge scientific and research software is written first for Mac.

In a big company, the pleebs have PCs, and the Execs have Macs.

Hating on one or the other is fucking retarded.

If you're a serious business person, you probably need both.

Incidentally, the only option that lets you boot both Windows and Mac is, well...a Mac.

:idk:

Sorry, mac hasnt been the lead platform for any kind of serious media for a very, very long time. Especially not CG or 3d graphics.

[Avatard]

No, but high end graphics aren't the domain of fucking Windows either.

Real back room power for servers, and real workstation power for high-end graphics is done on Unix, Linux or some other X...not Windows.

Windows is the "power platform" for games and email/web surfing.

[Avatard]

My Mac IS a PC.

I do my photo editing on a PC.

Oh well. No wonder I don't fit in with the artsy photogs.

I do my graphics on a PC too. I use an old PC product called Picture Publisher that is 1000% easier to use than Pshop.

But then again, the default boot on my Mac is Windows XP.

I really don't fit the stereotypes.

[Apoc]

I do my graphics on a PC too. I use an old PC product called Picture Publisher that is 1000% easier to use than Pshop.

But then again, the default boot on my Mac is Windows XP.

I really don't fit the stereotypes.



I get it. You like to spend more money to run the same software, on subpar electronics, for twice the price.

[Dave]

:scratch: I'm as white as a ghost

Racist :lol:

[Avatard]

I get it. You like to spend more money to run the same software, on subpar electronics, for twice the price.

No, I like speed, compatibility, simplicity, and low cost. Mac minis are fucking cheap, and are fast as all fucking shit running XP.

They are tiny (about the size of a half dozen CD jewel boxes), come with killer optical drives, are nearly dead silent, and throttle down to 13 watts on standby.

Pair it with a TV, and a nice Logitech Key/Mouse wireless desktop (or the apple ones) and you have Mac/PC/TV for under $1300 a seat.

It even has an infrared remote, making it a killer little media PC.

What's not to love?

:idk:

Maybe if you're a child, and you want to play a bunch of games, you need something as big as a fucking BBQ grill, that throws almost as much heat, and has 5 fans and water cooling (but isn't that what game consoles are for?), but if you're an adult, and you just need a medium-duty PC that's cheap, compatible, super-simple, and fast, there's NOTHING better than a Mac Mini.

[Papa_Complex]

I do my graphics on a PC too. I use an old PC product called Picture Publisher that is 1000% easier to use than Pshop.

But then again, the default boot on my Mac is Windows XP.

I really don't fit the stereotypes.

Paint Shop Pro X2. Far cheaper and easier to use than Photoshop, for 95% of anything that I'd ever want to do with it. I just don't do the other 5%.

Oh, and they're Canadian ;)

[Flexin]

And what can you do with it? Play games?

Video is done on a Mac.

Graphics are done on Macs.

Music is done on Macs.

Most leading edge scientific and research software is written first for Mac.

In a big company, the pleebs have PCs, and the Execs have Macs.

Hating on one or the other is fucking retarded.

If you're a serious business person, you probably need both.

Incidentally, the only option that lets you boot both Windows and Mac is, well...a Mac.

:idk:

Why would a serious business person need a Mac?

James

[Papa_Complex]

Why would a serious business person need a Mac?

James

Because, when you get to a certain level, status is more important than function. Many of the higher-ups where I work have tablet PCs, Macs, etc. They use them on a daily basis, but they could very easily be replaced by more run-of-the-mill PCs.

[Avatard]

Why would a serious business person need a Mac?

James

Compatibility, the ability to dual boot.

[Homeslice]

Why would a serious business person need a Mac?

James

Perhaps they are in a business like advertising or publishing, where almost everyone uses Macs. It doesn't mean they're "posing" or trying to be cool, it's just what all their employees & clients probably use.

[Flexin]

Compatibility, the ability to dual boot.

Dual boot for what? You can run 95% of the businesses out there without a mac. You can run some companies with a piece of paper, pen and a calculator. My last two businesses did not need a Mac.

James

[Flexin]

Perhaps they are in a business like advertising or publishing, where almost everyone uses Macs. It doesn't mean they're "posing" or trying to be cool, it's just what all their employees & clients probably use.

Are you saying you can't be a serious business person unless you are in advertising? They would be in the 5% that need them for business. Part of that 5% would include Apple who needs the product to sell.

James

[Flexin]

Because, when you get to a certain level, status is more important than function. Many of the higher-ups where I work have tablet PCs, Macs, etc. They use them on a daily basis, but they could very easily be replaced by more run-of-the-mill PCs.

My brother is in law school and almost everyone there uses a Mac from what he says. He made it almost 2 full years of law school with a Netbook.

James

[Avatard]

You can make do with a lump of coal, and some papyrus too.

[Trip]

I like my Mac, still hate Steve Jobs.

[Papa_Complex]

You can make do with a lump of coal, and some papyrus too.

Sure, except that pretty much all of the legal reference software that I've seen has been for PC.

[Avatard]

I like my Mac, still hate Steve Jobs.

I'd kick him square in the fucking nuts myself.

[Avatard]

Sure, except that pretty much all of the legal reference software that I've seen has been for PC.

Business, legal, and accounting is almost entirely PC.

Low end medical is Windows (or something obtuse, like PICK), and high end is Mac.

[Trip]

parallels/boot camp makes operating systems meaningless.

[anthonyk]

Are you saying you can't be a serious business person unless you are in advertising? They would be in the 5% that need them for business. Part of that 5% would include Apple who needs the product to sell.

James

Well, to be fair, I don't remember your earlier question being, "Why would a serious business person, who isn't in the 5% of businesses that need a mac, need a mac?"

I think the answer to that question is, "They don't."

And really, I'd bet at least half the people who work at Apple don't need a mac.

[Flexin]

Well, to be fair, I don't remember your earlier question being, "Why would a serious business person, who isn't in the 5% of businesses that need a mac, need a mac?"

I think the answer to that question is, "They don't."

And really, I'd bet at least half the people who work at Apple don't need a mac.

That was my point.

I said Apple needs it because that is part of there product line but as far as running the business goes they could use a PC to run the business and still make the same amount of money.

James

[Homeslice]

What I was saying was, if you're in the advertising business (i.e. an agency) it's a very Mac-intensive industry. The majority of the people you hire are going to be Mac experts, and the majority of outside vendors (printers, graphic arts, video people) you work with and share files with will be Mac users to. Under those circumstances, what would be the point of switching to PCs?

[Flexin]

What I was saying was, if you're in the advertising business (i.e. an agency) it's a very Mac-intensive industry. The majority of the people you hire are going to be Mac experts, and the majority of outside vendors (printers, graphic arts, video people) you work with and share files with will be Mac users to. Under those circumstances, what would be the point of switching to PCs?

I understand that they use them. I have a friend who is a photographer and he uses one. He likes them but doesn't love everything about them.

My point was there is a small percentage of businesses that would need a mac. Avatard was trying to say that any serious business person would/should have one. I strongly disagree with that.

James

[Avatard]

Perhaps I should have said "any serious business person that actually requires media" (which nowadays means most).

It is THE media computer.

Music
Video
Graphics

...And you can run Windows and Linux on it too, so in business, there's not much chance someone will walk in with something in a format you can't touch.

They start at $699, and the Mini is F-A-S-T. "Too expensive" just isn't an excuse anymore.

[Papa_Complex]

parallels/boot camp makes operating systems meaningless.

If it requires a reboot to access, then it doesn't make the O/S meaningless. Virtual Machines are a different story.

[EpyonXero]

My brother is in law school and almost everyone there uses a Mac from what he says. He made it almost 2 full years of law school with a Netbook.

James

I think the only software you need in law school is a word processor and Google.

[Trip]

If it requires a reboot to access, then it doesn't make the O/S meaningless. Virtual Machines are a different story.

parallels is a virtual machine. I run that most of the time if I need a windows prob. If I am doing something that is ram intensive like gaming, then I will reboot into windows.

[Papa_Complex]

parallels is a virtual machine. I run that most of the time if I need a windows prob. If I am doing something that is ram intensive like gaming, then I will reboot into windows.

Right. Boot Camp is a boot manager. Parallels is essentially a VM. That's why I made the distinction. If something is too memory intensive as you put it, for the VM, then the O/S isn't irrelevant.

I think the only software you need in law school is a word processor and Google.

You might be able to get away with internet references, but you can't beat a good professional legal reference programme.

[Apoc]

They start at $699, and the Mini is F-A-S-T. "Too expensive" just isn't an excuse anymore.

Except that for 700$ can build a much faster PC that will be far better for media (creating, cutting, whatever you want to do), than any Mac out there.

Its nothing more than an image thing. When you admit that, we'll be getting somewhere.

[EpyonXero]

Except that for 700$ can build a much faster PC that will be far better for media (creating, cutting, whatever you want to do), than any Mac out there.

Its nothing more than an image thing. When you admit that, we'll be getting somewhere.

Its been proven time and time again that if you build a PC that matched what you get out of the box on a given Mac you will pay just as much and sometime even more. Not to mention the support and reliability you get with Apple.


http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2009/tc20090415_602968.htm

http://technologizer.com/2008/10/19/is-the-new-macbook-expensive/

there are hundreds more....

[shmike]

Perhaps I should have said "any serious business person that actually requires media" (which nowadays means most).


Serious business people don't deal in media unless that is their business.

[Papa_Complex]

Its been proven time and time again that if you build a PC that matched what you get out of the box on a given Mac you will pay just as much and sometime even more. Not to mention the support and reliability you get with Apple.


http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2009/tc20090415_602968.htm

http://technologizer.com/2008/10/19/is-the-new-macbook-expensive/

there are hundreds more....

Having worked in the desktop support arena since 1989 I have to disagree. Sure, when you look at the bottom end you might be getting roughly the same, but when you move up in performance there's quite a dollar gap.

[OneSickPsycho]

Its been proven time and time again that if you build a PC that matched what you get out of the box on a given Mac you will pay just as much and sometime even more. Not to mention the support and reliability you get with Apple.


http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2009/tc20090415_602968.htm

http://technologizer.com/2008/10/19/is-the-new-macbook-expensive/

there are hundreds more....

LOL... those articles are a fucking stretch... All those little upgrades and a whole bunch of shit 99% of users would never give a fuck about... adds up to almost as much as a Mac. I mean, giving an edge to the Mac for boasting a 1900 vs 1440 pixel advantage? Who the fuck runs their 17" screen at 1900 anyway?

Anti-virus and bundled software? I use free antivirus software and have NEVER had a virus issue... and I download copious amounts of bullshit. Bundles software? Who the fuck uses that shit anyway? I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people use less than 10% of their bundled software, no matter what they get.

Mac's certainly have their place in the market, but acting like they are really needed for anything is a huge stretch.

[Papa_Complex]

I either uninstall the bundled shit or do a complete reload, the moment that I set up a personal computer.

[Trip]

I was about as anti Mac as you could get, now I have one. My tune has changed completely. I throughly enjoy mine and am not bothered by what I paid for it. I didn't pay retail though. I got a pretty good bit off and did a lot of the expensive upgrades for cheap. Like Rom, I went as cheap as possible and threw an additional 8gigs in it for under $100. Mine's a desktop and I don't go around saying "EVERYONE NEEDS TO BUY MAC!" So there is no image I am putting out there because no one see's my Mac and I don't have any apple gear to show how awesome Apple is. I don't own an iphone or ipod, so I don't even have those to show that image. I don't give a damn what you own or what you want, get whatever YOU want, but I enjoy my Mac and none of your arguments will change that.

Laptop wise, there isn't a PC company out there that I would care to buy from and building your own is just not a valid option if you want something well designed and sleak.

[Homeslice]

Or lightweight.

[Porkchop]

I was about as anti Mac as you could get, now I have one. My tune has changed completely. I throughly enjoy mine and am not bothered by what I paid for it. I didn't pay retail though. I got a pretty good bit off and did a lot of the expensive upgrades for cheap. Like Rom, I went as cheap as possible and threw an additional 8gigs in it for under $100.

Laptop wise, there isn't a PC company out there that I would care to buy from and building your own is just not a valid option if you want something well designed and sleak.

The ONLY PC company I now trust and would buy from is Sony. I bought a second hand VGN-CR408E that looked like it was never used. It runs better, and is much better made than laptops from 3 different companies that have crapped out on me. Now saying that, before I found this Vaio, I was about to pull the trigger on a Macbook with my student discount. I just didn't want to drop a grand when I could get the Sony for half of that.

[Avatard]

Serious business people don't deal in media unless that is their business.

People who lay bricks, and clean pools probably don't need a Mac (unless they just want a quiet, reliable computer).

[Trip]

The ONLY PC company I now trust and would buy from is Sony. I bought a second hand VGN-CR408E that looked like it was never used. It runs better, and is much better made than laptops from 3 different companies that have crapped out on me. Now saying that, before I found this Vaio, I was about to pull the trigger on a Macbook with my student discount. I just didn't want to drop a grand when I could get the Sony for half of that.

My wife got a macbook pro because I got tired of fixing her PC. Shit was always fun of crap she loaded or fucked up on the net. I told her if she got another PC, I wasn't doing shit to it. She got the mac and now the only questions I get are valid ones that are more difficult or the occassional PC to Mac shortcut conversion. The mac is just plain easy to use. They really do design them for stupid people. That works out great for smart people because it means they spend a lot less time dicking around with stupid shit windows make you do in 50 steps to complete instead of 10 on the Mac.

[Avatard]

I was about as anti Mac as you could get...

I worked as a PC consultant for years. I built I don't know how many fucking PCs myself, and installed entire networks of them.

I was probably doing this while most of the dipshits now telling me I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about were probably still in school learning what a fucking PC was.

Buy whatever you want, people. Us old farts don't know shit, I promise you ;)

[Homeslice]

And they don't take an hour to shut down or boot up. Now, 7 improved that a lot, but still.

[Trip]

And they don't take an hour to shut down or boot up. Now, 7 improved that a lot, but still.

My work laptop is so loaded with stupid shit it literally takes it 45 mins to boot up to a usable condition some days. I totally just fuck off the entire time too cause I can't do a damn thing til it's booted.

[Porkchop]

And they don't take an hour to shut down or boot up. Now, 7 improved that a lot, but still.

Hate 7 with a passion. It fucking sucks....

[Papa_Complex]

People who lay bricks, and clean pools probably don't need a Mac (unless they just want a quiet, reliable computer).

Have you heard a business grade Dell lately? You won't, because they're virtually silent.

Hate 7 with a passion. It fucking sucks....

Actually 7 is fine. It's like a thoroughly patched and fixed Vista. Trouble is that all of the PC manufacturers want to throw the 64 bit version at you, with all the attendant compatibility issues.

[Flexin]

I think the only software you need in law school is a word processor and Google.

Well I think its just word processor and internet access. And thats the thing. I can pretty much do anything they need to do on in Law school on my Blackberry. But they use Macs. I think the two main reasons are image and the second is it isn't their money.

When the netbook motherboard died my brother decided to try a Mac. He used friends Macs and decided to buy one. He likes it but doesn't love it. He hates that they dumb down the OS. Some things he used to do with a PC are made to be next to imposable to do unless you have a lot of knowledge on how they are set up.

I still can't get into them. They don't impress me at all. I still think they are too expensive for what they are. The laptop shells look pretty good but I'm not a fan of the keys. The fact that the keys are lighted I do like.

One thing I will say about the Law students using the Mac and not needing it is I'm all for getting what you want/like. I didn't need an R6 but thats what I wanted.

James

[Homeslice]

Apple has always been very good at locking down university deals. I don't think it's an image thing.

[Flexin]

And they don't take an hour to shut down or boot up. Now, 7 improved that a lot, but still.

Take an hour to shut down? My mother is using my old shop computer. I closed the shop at least 3 years ago. I think we are going on 4 years. The shop was open for 3 years. So its a 7 year old computer. It can shut down and restart in about 15-30 seconds.

James

[Papa_Complex]

Take an hour to shut down? My mother is using my old shop computer. I closed the shop at least 3 years ago. I think we are going on 4 years. The shop was open for 3 years. So its a 7 year old computer. It can shut down and restart in about 15-30 seconds.

James

Don't load up a bunch of crap and you don't have to wait. That simple concept seems to elude most people :lol:

[Flexin]

Apple has always been very good at locking down university deals. I don't think it's an image thing.

It has nothing to do with with a University deal as far as I know. These are not supplied by the University.

My old business partner went to a school that was all on computer. You had to get a computer from there to go. From what I remember the computer was giving to them. Anyway I don't know what they have now but it was a Toshiba.

And yes it is an image thing for most of them.

James

[Flexin]

Don't load up a bunch of crap and you don't have to wait. That simple concept seems to elude most people :lol:

My desktop is about 6 months older then the one mom is using because I bought it for the shop but decided to keep it and buy another one for the shop when it opened. I didn't have an external for the longest time and my computer got so bad it did take an hour to shut down and start up. My brother stopped over one day to use my printer and it was one of the few times that my computer was shut off. He said next time he was tossing it out of the window. I told him to wait in line.

One thing my brother said in the first 2-4 weeks of owning the Mac was that it didn't seem as fast as the day he bought it. He wasn't impressed with that.

James

[Homeslice]

It has nothing to do with with a University deal as far as I know. These are not supplied by the University.

My old business partner went to a school that was all on computer. You had to get a computer from there to go. From what I remember the computer was giving to them. Anyway I don't know what they have now but it was a Toshiba.

And yes it is an image thing for most of them.

James

So a law student who's already racking up 60-100K in debt is going to decide to buy Apple just because of its image. Maybe for some, but I doubt that is the biggest reason.

First, law students aren't like most of you guys. Most of them don't dick around with computers. They're not self-taught handymen. They don't know how to install cards or upgrade anything. They don't re-root their Android phone. Not would it be a good use of their time. They just want stuff that works.

Second, with regards to laptops - Seems like most others are thick & heavy, or look like a 1980's Cylon fighter. And what about customer service and accessories?

[Avatard]

Don't load up a bunch of crap and you don't have to wait. That simple concept seems to elude most people :lol:

Fonts.

Most people don't realize it's the single largest boot load, time-wise.

The primary reason for why systems take long to boot is from loading too many fonts.

People who have never loaded a graphics program have much slimmer systems. These programs tend to load over 100 fonts.

[Papa_Complex]

Second, with regards to laptops - Seems like most others are thick & heavy, or look like a 1980's Cylon fighter. And what about customer service and accessories?

Dell

Panasonic

Toshiba

....

[Papa_Complex]

Fonts.

Most people don't realize it's the single largest boot load, time-wise.

The primary reason for why systems take long to boot is from loading too many fonts.

People who have never loaded a graphics program have much slimmer systems. These programs tend to load over 100 fonts.

True, to a point. I usually deselect the additional fonts. There are still a lot of other things that take time to load though. First thing, that comes to mind, is all of the background shit that's loaded by any HP product.

[Homeslice]

Dell

Panasonic

Toshiba

....

Toshiba, maybe......Dell, old-school but ok I guess

But Toughbooks? Really?

[Avatard]

Oh Jesus. I would never run an HP computer without reformatting it first.

The amount of fucking useless shit they glop onto a fucking computer makes them fucking worthless otherwise.

Yet another reason I'd never buy another fucking computer from them.

[Flexin]

So a law student who's already racking up 60-100K in debt is going to decide to buy Apple just because of its image. Maybe for some, but I doubt that is the biggest reason.

First, law students aren't like most of you guys. Most of them don't dick around with computers. They're not self-taught handymen. They don't know how to install cards or upgrade anything. They don't re-root their Android phone. Not would it be a good use of their time. They just want stuff that works.

Second, we are talking about laptops here, not desktops. What other company makes a decent laptop that isn't thick & heavy, or look like a 1980's Cylon fighter? What other company has good customer service?

Those law students are in their early 20's. A lot of them are not racking up 60-100k in debt. They are racking up the debt for their parents or just plain spending their parents money.

Some get more allowance then I earn in a month.

Even if they are not handy they do mess with the OS on their phones or know someone that will for them if they want.

I want a new desktop and another laptop or two. Right now the two brands I would look at are HP and Toshiba. If there were no PC's made at the time I would first see if I can get by with what I have for a bit longer.

James

[Homeslice]

HP doesn't make anything lightweight to my knowledge.

And I guess I'm thinking of law students who have been in the workforce for a few years already. That's the better way to do it anyway. I'll bet those who go straight into it after undergrad account for less than half of law students nowdays.

[Papa_Complex]

Oh Jesus. I would never run an HP computer without reformatting it first.

The amount of fucking useless shit they glop onto a fucking computer makes them fucking worthless otherwise.

Yet another reason I'd never buy another fucking computer from them.

I'm not even talking about a HP computer. Install a printer and suddenly you've got 3 background processes, that start with hp. Install a scanner and there's two more. I can't properly voice how frikkin' annoyed I get, whenever I work on a PC used by a fan of HP peripherals.

Toshiba, maybe......Dell, old-school but ok I guess

But Toughbooks? Really?

Dell has some beautiful little notebooks. I own a XPS 1330. A friend has a Latitude X1 and it's a beautiful, little business grade notebook.

Panasonic has some great tiny, but full featured notebooks. I tend to prefer Dell, but I've worked with a couple of these: https://panasonic.ca/english/Office/notebook/CFS9.asp

[Flexin]

HP doesn't make anything lightweight to my knowledge.

And I guess I'm thinking of law students who have been in the workforce for a few years already. That's the better way to do it anyway. I'll bet those who go straight into it after undergrad account for less than half of law students nowdays.

For me lightweight isn't something I look at. My HP has the larger battery in it that forms a hump on the bottom. It raises the back of the laptop. I actually like that.

I don't want a heavy pig but I don't look at lightweight. You also have to remember I don't take my laptop with me everyday. I did when I first bought my HP but once I closed my business I didn't take it everywhere.

James

[pauldun170]

Law students....
lulz

[Avatard]

I'm not even talking about a HP computer. Install a printer and suddenly you've got 3 background processes, that start with hp. Install a scanner and there's two more. I can't properly voice how frikkin' annoyed I get, whenever I work on a PC used by a fan of HP peripherals.

Oh, geez...Well, I NEVER load anyone's software. EVER.

I'll find a way to hack the drivers in, but I never use the CD that comes with shit. I know better.

The HP shit I use is old school network shit (something that has a network card in it, and just uses a driver). HP is notorious for making junk software that loads a million things, leaks memory, and has huge overhead, with runaway apps often running at 100% CPU load.

Frankly, if I were to purchase an HP product that could not be used with just a driver, I probably wouldn't use it.

As a last resort, I might load their software, and then set about killing the individual processes that load, one by one, in an attempt to minimize the damage to my system.

Yeah, HP isn't real high on my list of nice computer folks. They're a fucking pain in the ass anymore.

[Apoc]

Its been proven time and time again that if you build a PC that matched what you get out of the box on a given Mac you will pay just as much and sometime even more. Not to mention the support and reliability you get with Apple.


http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2009/tc20090415_602968.htm

http://technologizer.com/2008/10/19/is-the-new-macbook-expensive/

there are hundreds more....


If you say so. I built a top of the line PC, with an i7 960, dual HD 5870 video cards, w/ 8gb/ram and a 10k/RPM HDD. I paid under 1000$ to build the tower. Motherboard, heatsink, fans, case, and got a free razer gaming mouse and KB with the deal. I already had the monitor.

The best Mac Desktop? They start at 2599$, right up to 5199$ CDN for the most powerful one, which is about half as powerful as the desktop I built. I could be real generous and and say 2/3 as powerful, but i'd be lying. It even uses a single two generation old HD 5770 Video card, and only 6gb ram.

[pauldun170]

If you say so. I built a top of the line PC, with an i7 960, dual HD 5870 video cards, w/ 8gb/ram and a 10k/RPM HDD. I paid under 1000$ to build the tower. Motherboard, heatsink, fans, case, and got a free razer gaming mouse and KB with the deal. I already had the monitor.

The best Mac Desktop? They start at 2599$, right up to 5199$ CDN for the most powerful one, which is about half as powerful as the desktop I built. I could be real generous and and say 2/3 as powerful, but i'd be lying. It even uses a single two generation old HD 5770 Video card, and only 6gb ram.

Always build it my self using quality components.
So far its always worked out WAY cheaper.

[anthonyk]

If you say so. I built a top of the line PC, with an i7 960, dual HD 5870 video cards, w/ 8gb/ram and a 10k/RPM HDD. I paid under 1000$ to build the tower. Motherboard, heatsink, fans, case, and got a free razer gaming mouse and KB with the deal. I already had the monitor.

The best Mac Desktop? They start at 2599$, right up to 5199$ CDN for the most powerful one, which is about half as powerful as the desktop I built. I could be real generous and and say 2/3 as powerful, but i'd be lying. It even uses a single two generation old HD 5770 Video card, and only 6gb ram.

How much would a unit with those specs cost retail from a major PC builder (with all the associated software and support that comes with it)? That seems like a more apples-to-apples (no pun intended) comparison.

I don't doubt for a second that you can build up your own custom PC from parts for a lot cheaper than a similarly configured Mac. You're also not the average customer.

[Apoc]

How much would a unit with those specs cost retail from a major PC builder (with all the associated software and support that comes with it)? That seems like a more apples-to-apples (no pun intended) comparison.

I don't doubt for a second that you can build up your own custom PC from parts for a lot cheaper than a similarly configured Mac. You're also not the average customer.


Alienware sells similar PC's, pre-assembled, with monitors and everything, for about 2-2.5k depending on features. Still cheaper than a similar priced Mac desktop, and easily 2x more powerful.

And if the average IQ of a user is so low that he cant plug in plug-and-play parts, with a few wires and screws to assemble, then just maybe they shouldn't be allowed on a computer anyway. She might hurt herself.

[Papa_Complex]

Alienware sells similar PC's, pre-assembled, with monitors and everything, for about 2-2.5k depending on features. Still cheaper than a similar priced Mac desktop, and easily 2x more powerful.

Probably ships with a 21" widescreen LCD, all for that price too.

[anthonyk]

Alienware sells similar PC's, pre-assembled, with monitors and everything, for about 2-2.5k depending on features. Still cheaper than a similar priced Mac desktop, and easily 2x more powerful.

And if the average IQ of a user is so low that he cant plug in plug-and-play parts, with a few wires and screws to assemble, then just maybe they shouldn't be allowed on a computer anyway. She might hurt herself.

Yeah, but they're butt-ugly. :lol:

And come on... It's not about IQ. Your average computer consumer (not builder) doesn't want to plug parts in, or do the research to find those parts. They want to open a box and get on the internet. They want one company to call when shit breaks. Like I said, you guys aren't the average consumer. Not even close.

Apple's expensive, for sure. But they've gotta provide end-to-end support for all of the hardware and software the computer comes with, and the industrial design is head and shoulders above the rest. For those folks who care about that stuff (i.e. not you), it makes sense to spend more.

[Apoc]

Yeah, but they're butt-ugly. :lol:

And come on... It's not about IQ. Your average computer consumer (not builder) doesn't want to plug parts in, or do the research to find those parts. They want to open a box and get on the internet. They want one company to call when shit breaks. Like I said, you guys aren't the average consumer. Not even close.

Apple's expensive, for sure. But they've gotta provide end-to-end support for all of the hardware and software the computer comes with, and the industrial design is head and shoulders above the rest. For those folks who care about that stuff (i.e. not you), it makes sense to spend more.

What happened to peoples need to understand how things work? This current era of dipshits saddens me.

I dont need to know what im doing to take something apart. I just need the right tools and a full vocabulary of swear words and phrases :)

[Papa_Complex]

And Band-Aids. Lots of Band-Aids.

[EpyonXero]

LOL... those articles are a fucking stretch... All those little upgrades and a whole bunch of shit 99% of users would never give a fuck about... adds up to almost as much as a Mac. I mean, giving an edge to the Mac for boasting a 1900 vs 1440 pixel advantage? Who the fuck runs their 17" screen at 1900 anyway?

Anti-virus and bundled software? I use free antivirus software and have NEVER had a virus issue... and I download copious amounts of bullshit. Bundles software? Who the fuck uses that shit anyway? I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people use less than 10% of their bundled software, no matter what they get.

Mac's certainly have their place in the market, but acting like they are really needed for anything is a huge stretch.

I just went to Dell and priced a XPS 9100 with specs as close to my iMac as I could get and the Dell came out to $1339 + $1000-1200
for a 27" inch 2560 x 1440 monitor. The 27", i7 iMac is $2349. That doesnt include any software.

[anthonyk]

What happened to peoples need to understand how things work? This current era of dipshits saddens me.

I dont need to know what im doing to take something apart. I just need the right tools and a full vocabulary of swear words and phrases :)

My ex has never really cared how things worked, and now our 3-yr-old is putting her through the wringer. I just had to explain (to both of them) what water towers are for. :lol:

[Avatard]

If you say so. I built a top of the line PC, with an i7 960, dual HD 5870 video cards, w/ 8gb/ram and a 10k/RPM HDD. I paid under 1000$ to build the tower. Motherboard, heatsink, fans, case, and got a free razer gaming mouse and KB with the deal. I already had the monitor.

The best Mac Desktop? They start at 2599$, right up to 5199$ CDN for the most powerful one, which is about half as powerful as the desktop I built. I could be real generous and and say 2/3 as powerful, but i'd be lying. It even uses a single two generation old HD 5770 Video card, and only 6gb ram.

Yay. You can build a really powerful PC for less than a Mac.

In the mid-range, where most people exist, a Mac Mini and a TV are cheaper, and more useful.

At the top end, where you've just described your penis-extension PC, replete with all its cooling fans, and cool graphics, what can you actually use it for? Playing cool games?

See, people who really need this kind of power (graphic artists, video editors, and music production houses), will buy a Mac, because that's what does these tasks. They are people who would rather GET SHIT DONE, than fuck with cheap PC parts, bad drivers, and incompatibilities. Their time is worth more than that.

My time is worth more than that, anymore; and here's the thing: It's not that I don't know how things work, or that I can't build the super-hyper-mega-ultra-penis-extender PC...I used to build and install entire fucking networks myself; build, load, and deploy a number of "white box" PCs in one shot. Another time, I built pre-configured music PCs (even sold one to someone at Lucent Labs).

I can build whatever I want. It just so happens, Apple makes exactly what I need, and for cheaper than I can build it, and it does more, and performs better.

...and I dare say most people would have the same user experience in the mid-range. It's not a matter of "not getting it", I get it just fine. Trip gets it just fine too. If you want a Hyundai that you have to assemble, have at it.

In this case, I'll buy the mid-range Beemer turn-key instead, and be quite happy.

I think most people would.

[zerioustt]

lets face it most people buy laptops over a desktop. why? because most people want to cruise the web, buy stuff, watch movies, porn, and download music. i buy toshibas and they last about 4 or 5 years and i have never paid over 500 bucks for one, to me thats a deal mac cant offer.

[Papa_Complex]

At the top end, where you've just described your penis-extension PC, replete with all its cooling fans, and cool graphics, what can you actually use it for? Playing cool games?

That 'penis extension' can do all of that, with software that's now every bit as good as the Mac-based product (frequently at a significantly lower price point) AND play those games.

[Apoc]

That 'penis extension' can do all of that, with software that's now every bit as good as the Mac-based product (frequently at a significantly lower price point) AND play those games.


Ignorance. its what makes both Christianity and Apple thrive.

[Homeslice]

Criticizing people for buying Macs is like criticizing people for not changing their own oil. Or criticizing someone for hiring a painter instead of painting their house themselves.

For some people, their time is not worth the piddly little $ savings they would get from doing those things themselves.

I'm sure there's some avenue of your life, or some purchase you've made, that you left to the experts, instead of digging into the details.

[Avatard]

I know how to build a PC. I've built dozens. Apple does it better for cheaper, so I stopped wasting my time, and now instead of fucking with computers, I actually get shit done. Wow, what a fucking concept.

:rockwoot:

[Papa_Complex]

I built literally thousands :lol:

... so I decided to let Dell do it for me.

[Trip]

I hope your dell is better than our dell, because our dell has serious quality control issues. Dell use to be awesome because they followed the Apple/Sony business model.

[Avatard]

lets face it most people buy laptops over a desktop. why? because most people want to cruise the web, buy stuff, watch movies, porn, and download music. i buy toshibas and they last about 4 or 5 years and i have never paid over 500 bucks for one, to me thats a deal mac cant offer.

Toshiba makes good PC lappys. Dell, and Lenova too.

Dell makes good workstation PCs. HP is pure shit.

Server, I'd use Mac, Dell, or probably build something nice.

The fastest laptop running Windows is a Macbook Pro, however.

:shrug:

[Papa_Complex]

I hope your dell is better than our dell, because our dell has serious quality control issues. Dell use to be awesome because they followed the Apple/Sony business model.

Actually Dell set the business model, that other manufacturers have struggled to try and emulate. The only issue that I had to deal with, on the system I'm typing this on, was an iffy video driver. I fixed that pretty quickly. For me, it was easy. For anyone else it would have taken no more than a 5 minute internet search.

The other systems, that I use, are business grade Dell systems. I've never had a compatibility issue with one. They work, right out of the box, and are stable in configuration for no less than 6 months.

[Flexin]

I thought Iworks was included with the Mac? I was just on Dell and Apple trying to build to systems that are close. From the order set up Iworks is included if you include $79 with the rest of your money. There is a lot of other software that can be added as well. Pricing them up the Dell was $900 less for an I7 XPS. $1299 for an HP.

For me that is a lot of money. I'm not going to knock anyone for buying one, just the people that think its the only computer to buy.

James

[anthonyk]

Actually Dell set the business model, that other manufacturers have struggled to try and emulate.

Which business model would that be? Maybe with their enterprise stuff, but they seem to botch the consumer side of things on a regular basis.

[anthonyk]

I thought Iworks was included with the Mac? I was just on Dell and Apple trying to build to systems that are close. From the order set up Iworks is included if you include $79 with the rest of your money. There is a lot of other software that can be added as well. Pricing them up the Dell was $900 less for an I7 XPS. $1299 for an HP.

For me that is a lot of money. I'm not going to knock anyone for buying one, just the people that think its the only computer to buy.

James

It's the iLife bundle that's included (editing software for movies, photos, DVDs, music, etc.).

[Papa_Complex]

Which business model would that be? Maybe with their enterprise stuff, but they seem to botch the consumer side of things on a regular basis.

That would be the internet sales model, that's the envy of the computer sales world. You say that they botch things. I say that they have almost 24% of the US market.

[Flexin]

It's the iLife bundle that's included (editing software for movies, photos, DVDs, music, etc.).

Ok thanks. The i in front of everything can make your head spin if you don't really pay attention to it or care.

I just read it again. I see the iworks is word processing software. So it looks like they offer iLife and then have upgraded software for everything that it does.

James

[Trip]

Actually Dell set the business model, that other manufacturers have struggled to try and emulate. The only issue that I had to deal with, on the system I'm typing this on, was an iffy video driver. I fixed that pretty quickly. For me, it was easy. For anyone else it would have taken no more than a 5 minute internet search.

The other systems, that I use, are business grade Dell systems. I've never had a compatibility issue with one. They work, right out of the box, and are stable in configuration for no less than 6 months.

Sorry, that system Dell used to create themselves was devised by Sony and imported by Steve Jobs. Steve visited a Sony factory and brought that shit over here.

I am not talking about an internet sales model. I am talking about quality control and how the factory was run to assemble the products. Steve took their visually appealing style a step further though. Dell has gotten away from this process on their consumer side.

Dell use to mean reliability, it doesn't anymore. TVA is all Dell and we have nothing but issues, but that is mainly due to our sloppy IT program more than anything. We have been getting a ton of recalled Dell models lately though. Seems we are shipping every other model back for battery or hard drive issues.

[anthonyk]

That would be the internet sales model, that's the envy of the computer sales world. You say that they botch things. I say that they have almost 24% of the US market.

A few short years ago, that used to be almost 35%, if I remember right. They've managed to halt the slide recently (so far), but they're far from being the envy of everyone else.

Good point about internet sales, though. They deserve some props for establishing that a while back.

[Papa_Complex]

Sorry, that system Dell used to create themselves was devised by Sony and imported by Steve Jobs. Steve visited a Sony factory and brought that shit over here.

I am not talking about an internet sales model. I am talking about quality control and how the factory was run to assemble the products. Steve took their visually appealing style a step further though. Dell has gotten away from this process on their consumer side.

Dell use to mean reliability, it doesn't anymore. TVA is all Dell and we have nothing but issues, but that is mainly due to our sloppy IT program more than anything. We have been getting a ton of recalled Dell models lately though. Seems we are shipping every other model back for battery or hard drive issues.

What models are you using? For notebooks, we're exclusively Latitude. The most recent models are trivial to disassemble, and repair, due to some very well thought-out changes to the case design. We don't support XPS or Inspiron. In desktops we're primarily Optiplex, with a smattering of Precision.

Given our install base of somewhere around 2500 units, our down-time is remarkably low. Then again myself, and my closest co-workers, are part of an authorized service centre. If we need parts they're in-hand, generally in 24-48 hours.

To me, quality control is about avoiding DOA units. I can't remember the last time I had a Dell DOA. Don't get me started on quality control though. The things that I've seen, in the various companies in which I've worked or toured, piss me right off. I wrote the QA and product testing procedures for the first computer manufacturer in which I worked, and they tossed it all out within a month of my leaving them. I don't think that they lasted a year after that, though, before going bankrupt.

A few short years ago, that used to be almost 35%, if I remember right. They've managed to halt the slide recently (so far), but they're far from being the envy of everyone else.

Good point about internet sales, though. They deserve some props for establishing that a while back.

I think that they almost hit 40% (38, or somesuch), before dropping. In response to their success companies like HP dropped their pants on profits, and aggressively marketed through discount/big box chains. Dell responded in kind, where the big box stores are concerned, which to my mind was a poorly countenanced marketing misstep. They didn't gain a whole lot there.

[EpyonXero]

Sorry, that system Dell used to create themselves was devised by Sony and imported by Steve Jobs. Steve visited a Sony factory and brought that shit over here.

I am not talking about an internet sales model. I am talking about quality control and how the factory was run to assemble the products. Steve took their visually appealing style a step further though. Dell has gotten away from this process on their consumer side.

Dell use to mean reliability, it doesn't anymore. TVA is all Dell and we have nothing but issues, but that is mainly due to our sloppy IT program more than anything. We have been getting a ton of recalled Dell models lately though. Seems we are shipping every other model back for battery or hard drive issues.

Just my experience:

I bought a $1300 Dell XPS M1330 laptop with all the bells and whistles in 2007 and the video card died 2 years later which was out of warranty and couldnt be fixed so I replaced it with a $500 MSI laptop this summer. I have owned 4 Macs and since 1992 (the first was my parents but I used it 90% of the time) and none of them have failed. the only problem Ive had was a dead power supply on my G5 Mac Pro which I just took down to the Apple Store and got replaced for $100. Every Mac Ive had worked right up to the day I upgraded to something newer and continued to work afterwards.

[Flexin]

Coming soon to a Mac near you: serious malware

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/coming-soon-to-a-mac-near-you-serious-malware/3212

James

[Papa_Complex]

Damn. I'm REALLY not looking forward to trying to track maleware through a BSD-based OS.

[Trip]

What models are you using? For notebooks, we're exclusively Latitude. The most recent models are trivial to disassemble, and repair, due to some very well thought-out changes to the case design. We don't support XPS or Inspiron. In desktops we're primarily Optiplex, with a smattering of Precision.

Given our install base of somewhere around 2500 units, our down-time is remarkably low. Then again myself, and my closest co-workers, are part of an authorized service centre. If we need parts they're in-hand, generally in 24-48 hours.

To me, quality control is about avoiding DOA units. I can't remember the last time I had a Dell DOA. Don't get me started on quality control though. The things that I've seen, in the various companies in which I've worked or toured, piss me right off. I wrote the QA and product testing procedures for the first computer manufacturer in which I worked, and they tossed it all out within a month of my leaving them. I don't think that they lasted a year after that, though, before going bankrupt.



I think that they almost hit 40% (38, or somesuch), before dropping. In response to their success companies like HP dropped their pants on profits, and aggressively marketed through discount/big box chains. Dell responded in kind, where the big box stores are concerned, which to my mind was a poorly countenanced marketing misstep. They didn't gain a whole lot there.

We use latitudes and inspirons and a ton of different type desktops. They are all garbage.

[LeeNetworX]

http://www.eatliver.com/img/2011/7223.jpg

[EpyonXero]

Most government PCs are garbage, trust me.

[Dave]

lets face it most people buy laptops over a desktop. why? because most people want to cruise the web, buy stuff, watch movies, porn, and download music. i buy toshibas and they last about 4 or 5 years and i have never paid over 500 bucks for one, to me thats a deal mac cant offer.

truth, i havent had a desktop since iraq started. i usually shop the refurbished machines and go with a year or two old desktop replacement. pavilion zd8000 im on now is bombproof and fast as hell..well, as long as you dont put a battery in it. silly hp ran the keyboard electrical supply through the same spot as the battery so if its trying to charge your keyboard doesnt work :lol:

[Homeslice]

Figures the White House would use outdated HP's

[EpyonXero]

Figures the White House would use outdated HP's

They probably have the IT contract for the Whitehouse. HP runs the Navy/Marine network.

[Apoc]

:)

[Avatard]

:)

You'd think that all you guys smart enough to build your own PCs would know better than to buy all of your upgrades from Apple.

You buy the bare machine (and yes, it's overpriced...but it includes their boot ROM whatever-the-fuck that makes it inherently a "Mac", and effectively "buys" you their full OS and future upgrade capabilities).

Everything else you buy yourself, and add.

Stupid people will always overpay for shit. Apple's good at taking their money.

I don't buy all of their shit...but some of it is just fucking spot on.

:shrug:

[Papa_Complex]

You'd think that all you guys smart enough to build your own PCs would know better than to buy all of your upgrades from Apple.

You buy the bare machine (and yes, it's overpriced...but it includes their boot ROM whatever-the-fuck that makes it inherently a "Mac", and effectively "buys" you their full OS and future upgrade capabilities).

Everything else you buy yourself, and add.

Stupid people will always overpay for shit. Apple's good at taking their money.

I don't buy all of their shit...but some of it is just fucking spot on.

:shrug:

Easy enough with hard drives, but I've had issues with memory compatibility.

[Avatard]

You have to buy good memory. Kingston, etc.

To be honest, one of the things that it's arguably worth paying their unfuckingbelievably inflated prices for is memory. Apple tests the living fuck out of their shit, and it's ridiculously stable.

[Papa_Complex]

You have to buy good memory. Kingston, etc.

To be honest, one of the things that it's arguably worth paying their unfuckingbelievably inflated prices for is memory. Apple tests the living fuck out of their shit, and it's ridiculously stable.

Did. Had to buy DIFFERENT good memory. We never buy no-name crap. It's never worth the trouble, from a manpower/support context.

[Trip]

You have to buy good memory. Kingston, etc.

To be honest, one of the things that it's arguably worth paying their unfuckingbelievably inflated prices for is memory. Apple tests the living fuck out of their shit, and it's ridiculously stable.

Go crucial, fuck Apple memory.

[Apoc]

You'd think that all you guys smart enough to build your own PCs would know better than to buy all of your upgrades from Apple.

You buy the bare machine (and yes, it's overpriced...but it includes their boot ROM whatever-the-fuck that makes it inherently a "Mac", and effectively "buys" you their full OS and future upgrade capabilities).

Everything else you buy yourself, and add.

Stupid people will always overpay for shit. Apple's good at taking their money.

I don't buy all of their shit...but some of it is just fucking spot on.

:shrug:

That price is for the base Mac, no upgrades.

[Avatard]

Really? Never been to Apple's site...

:skep:

[Apoc]

Really? Never been to Apple's site...

:skep:


Ya, thats my problem with MAC, its not a problem with what you get, its what you get for the price. Sure, build quality is usually fantastic, but prices are astronomical. Sure, OSX is great, it works very well, but im not about to pay that kind of money for a base mac, or even a high end one.

They make sleek gadgets, but they rip off their consumers in the process.