The PhD problem: are we giving out too many degrees?

[pauldun170]

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/04/the-phd-problem-what-do-you-do-with-too-many-doctorates.ars

[Homeslice]

Too many PhD's? No, but we're definitely giving out too many Bachelor's.

[Papa_Complex]

Actually I think that we give out far too many degrees, period.They're being devalued. Everyone seems to think that they're owed higher education; especially those who have no aptitude.

[goof2]

Actually I think that we give out far too many degrees, period.They're being devalued. Everyone seems to think that they're owed higher education; especially those who have no aptitude.

I agree. It seems like some of the people who get degrees now would struggle to get a high school diploma.

[derf]

I agree. It seems like some of the people who get degrees now would struggle to get a high school diploma.

where is Drewpy when you are looking for an educated opinion?

[101lifts2]

There are not too many PHD's; there are too many people.

We need more birth control for Chinese and Mexicans.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Actually I think that we give out far too many degrees, period.They're being devalued. Everyone seems to think that they're owed higher education; especially those who have no aptitude.

Well, what do you expect when it's been beaten into most of us for generations that you can't have a decent paying job without a degree?

[Papa_Complex]

Well, what do you expect when it's been beaten into most of us for generations that you can't have a decent paying job without a degree?

Yup, sure has. I turned down a machinist apprenticeship, straight out of college, because I was by damn going to use my diploma. Unfortunately we still need carpenters, plumbers, electricians, garbage men, general labourers, ...... There's a good living to be made in such areas; likely better than at some helpdesk, that's going to be outsourced anyway.

[EpyonXero]

Well, what do you expect when it's been beaten into most of us for generations that you can't have a decent paying job without a degree?

Yep, from elementary school on theyre telling kids that the only way to be somebody is to go to college and if you dont your only option is working at McDonalds.

[defector]

Yep, from elementary school on theyre telling kids that the only way to be somebody is to go to college and if you dont your only option is working at McDonalds.

It was digging ditches for us. Guess McD's didn't instill the fear they wanted.

[RACER X]

Yup, sure has. I turned down a machinist apprenticeship, straight out of college, because I was by damn going to use my diploma. Unfortunately we still need carpenters, plumbers, electricians, garbage men, general labourers, ...... There's a good living to be made in such areas; likely better than at some helpdesk, that's going to be outsourced anyway.

So is that what you want to instil in your kids to be when they grow up,a general laborer?

College degreed people still make more on avg then h.s. Degreed people

[tommymac]

It was digging ditches for us. Guess McD's didn't instill the fear they wanted.

For us it was mcdonalds or pumping gas. Although I did pump gas for 6 months and was an ok job back then. Now a days I dont think an american citizen can work as a gas station attendant :lol:

[MILK]

So is that what you want to instil in your kids to be when they grow up,a general laborer?

College degreed people still make more on avg then h.s. Degreed people


Agreed! What I told my son is that with a good education you can CHOOSE to dig ditches if you want. With no education you don't get to choose.

No one gave me my degree. I earned it.

[Papa_Complex]

So is that what you want to instil in your kids to be when they grow up,a general laborer?

College degreed people still make more on avg then h.s. Degreed people

Actually I would want to tell my children that they should do a job they can be proud of, enjoy doing, and ultimately and most importantly make a living wage on. There is nothing to be ashamed of, in doing an honest day's work.

THAT is what I would want to instill in my children.

[tallywacker]

Universities are businesses trying to make as much money as possible. Higher learning comes second.

[tommymac]

Universities are businesses trying to make as much money as possible. Higher learning comes second.

with the cost of books and tuition now its painfully evident :td:

[RACER X]

I guess a living wage is relative

You also want your kids yo do well in life emotionally and financially, iMO, $ isn't everything but it sure makes life easier.

[RACER X]

Universities are businesses trying to make as much money as possible. Higher learning comes second.

Are univ non-profit?

[Papa_Complex]

I guess a living wage is relative

You also want your kids yo do well in life emotionally and financially, iMO, $ isn't everything but it sure makes life easier.

Sometimes the pursuit of the almighty buck, and the attendant 'trappings of success', makes quality of life significantly worse.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Actually I would want to tell my children that they should do a job they can be proud of, enjoy doing, and ultimately and most importantly make a living wage on. There is nothing to be ashamed of, in doing an honest day's work.

THAT is what I would want to instill in my children.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc

20 minutes, but WELL worth watching.
Yes, all of you. (or skip to 10 minutes in for the real meat of the lecture)

[RACER X]

Sure it can

My guess, there are alot more "poor"people wishing they were "rich" vs the opposite

[defector]

This thread got me thinking about the two biggest BS things I had to sit through in school.
The College Degree is a must speech, and the DARE to keep kids off drugs speech.
I would wager I wasted a collective 6 weeks of my life with this crap.

[derf]

http://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2011/apr/GradVitzhum

hows this for a degree? 19 years

[Papa_Complex]

Sure it can

My guess, there are alot more "poor"people wishing they were "rich" vs the opposite

Only because once you've been sucked into the ratrace, you convince yourself that you're on the track to success. Somehow, though, success is just over that next rise, for the rest of your life. It's sort of like how once someone has shelled out that $12.00 for the summer blockbuster, that's actually absolute shit, they just don't want to admit to their friends (or themselves) that it really was shit and they wasted that $12.00.

[tommymac]

http://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2011/apr/GradVitzhum

hows this for a degree? 19 years

Dont let drewpy see that, he doesnt need any other ideas to stay in school :lol:

[Papa_Complex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc

20 minutes, but WELL worth watching.
Yes, all of you. (or skip to 10 minutes in for the real meat of the lecture)

Definitely worth the watch. Thanks.

[pauldun170]

I went to college in the early 90's and I went back from 2007 to 2010 because I was bored.
My wife went to state university in early to mid 90's and my younger sister is currently doing her MBA program. I've stuck my nose in my sisters course work and I've went through my wifes old stuff (she kept just about all her stuff).

4.0 GPA students by today's standards are 2.5 GPA students using yesterdays standards at best. I was friendly with the some of the faculty where I went and they had TONS to say about students nowadays. I've also seen plenty of my classmates work and I'd be embarrassed to turn in some of the things I saw.

Phd programs on the other hand...too many of them bitches got bad skin. I know you research baby but "hot damn!" hit a gym and eat a carrot or sum'ten. Make sure moisturize immediately after you finish showering and not when you get to the bedroom.
On top of that...you gotta do something besides go for a run...you are losing that nice ass you had as an undergrad.

[dReWpY]

did you know that there is a direct relationship between success/income and a drop in sex life and the feeling of satisfaction, you get caught in this must try a little harder, must make the next rung in the ladder, my car can be just one year newer... etc.

since dropping the subaru and its payments/insurance etc. i got a 96 jeep cherokee that cost about as much as a clutch job on the WRX and couldnt be happier, i actually get to have a bit of a life again and to see my gf more then just at night when i come home at 5 am or when i first wake up

[RACER X]

There also a direct relationship between higher income and lower divorces whereas lower income -more divorces and more "baby daddy"

[RACER X]

http://m.jezebel.com/5540922/low+income-couples-more-likely-to-divorce-but-why

[Papa_Complex]

There also a direct relationship between higher income and lower divorces whereas lower income -more divorces and more "baby daddy"

... because of how much the people involved perceive that they would lose, through a divorce. Perversely, after I got over the initial shock, I was a happier kid once my parents were divorced.

[RACER X]

Whatever the case, thems the numbers

[Papa_Complex]

Whatever the case, thems the numbers

Just falls right in line with my comments about people fooling themselves.

"Staying together for the kids."

"Divorce is too expensive."

Etc.

[RACER X]

Well w/o getting to far off topic, how many strippers have no father figure be it they divorce or whatever the excuse.

Glad your parents divorce made you a happier kid, many don't turn out as well

[Papa_Complex]

Well w/o getting to far off topic, how many strippers have no father figure be it they divorce or whatever the excuse.

Glad your parents divorce made you a happier kid, many don't turn out as well

I don't know how many strippers have a solid father figure in their lives. Never gave enough of a damn, to take a straw poll. Probably breaks down pretty evenly with the percentage who were "daddy's little girl."

Funny thing about that. My father had a good job; a bank manager. He made good money for the time. He was a drunk and caught up in the idea that he needed the trappings of success. As a result we (my two siblings, my mother, and myself) were financially better off with my mother's meager wages and what little I made, once we got out from under the initial load, than we ever were when he was around.

[Apoc]

Well w/o getting to far off topic, how many strippers have no father figure be it they divorce or whatever the excuse.

Glad your parents divorce made you a happier kid, many don't turn out as well



Most of them were raped or molested though. I 'poled' them all when I worked in the bar. Their stories go much farther than 'mommy and daddy got a divorce, and I became a drug addicted whore'.

[RACER X]

And most were' in school' to better themselves lol

[Apoc]

And most were' in school' to better themselves lol



no, most were dancing for money for coke. They only tell the 'patrons' (aka suckers) that bullshit.

[RACER X]

Really,damm I thought I was suporting a good cause



Guess you didn't see my tick marks or lol

[tommymac]

no, most were dancing for money for coke. They only tell the 'patrons' (aka suckers) that bullshit.

And its always a heartwarming story LOL

[EpyonXero]

There also a direct relationship between higher income and lower divorces whereas lower income -more divorces and more "baby daddy"

Its a lot easier you divorce when you dont have much to lose.

[tallywacker]

Are univ non-profit?

Non-profit or not, every large University has a large political system with every department grabbing for money, and salaries needing to be paid.

Just like with any politician, it is easy to lose sight of the mission. In the end the focus is on accumulating funds and then spending them on whatever as well as they can. Most of the time the "as well as they can" does not apply.

[pauldun170]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-question-youre-not-asking-should-you-go-to-college/

[derf]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-question-youre-not-asking-should-you-go-to-college/

The one thing that article misses 100% is the difference in type of work you will do during that time frame when you don't earn as much extra money because of that degree than you expected.

do you want to do this

http://construction-jobs.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/construction-workers.jpg

or this

http://www.serpholicmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/desk-job-300x200.jpg

The manual labor world is much harder on your body than a desk job, and I can bet that there is a much higher number of people doing construction jobs that dont have higher education than construction workers that do have a degree.

It also never talks about the other benefits of a better job, like health insurance, vacation time, that kind of stuff.

[Homeslice]

Sitting on your ass in an office all day isn't good for your health either.

[Avatard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc

20 minutes, but WELL worth watching.
Yes, all of you. (or skip to 10 minutes in for the real meat of the lecture)

That was awesome. I didn't know that Rowe was that sharp. He's a motherfucker. Thanks for posting that.

[MILK]

Sitting on your ass in an office all day isn't good for your health either.

Thats why you run on your lunch hour! :lol:

The other thing about manual labor is that when you age you can become unemployable easier because you can no longer do the job.

[derf]

That was awesome. I didn't know that Rowe was that sharp. He's a motherfucker. Thanks for posting that.

Yup it was more interesting than I thought it would be

[tommymac]

Thats why you run on your lunch hour! :lol:

The other thing about manual labor is that when you age you can become unemployable easier because you can no longer do the job.

I have been seeing that since working on jobsites the last few years. Some of these guys are in their late 40's/early 50's and look like total crap

[EpyonXero]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-question-youre-not-asking-should-you-go-to-college/

If you go to college, you're all but guaranteed some significant debt, and don't think it won't affect you: In a 2006 survey, 39 percent of college graduates needed more than the default 10 years to pay back their loans. Most couldn't buy a house because of the payments, and 28 percent even delayed having children. Jesus, we're not just putting off idle hopes and dreams because of student debt; we're putting off propagating the fucking species. College graduates have yet another reason not to have kids, while dropouts, with their raging, debt-free boners, are out there whoring it up with impunity.


True

[tallywacker]

Thank you GI Bill! Enjoy your student loans.

[Archren]

Thank you GI Bill! Enjoy your student loans.

:rockwoot:

[EpyonXero]

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/mike-rowe-senate-testimony.html

Mike Rowe, creator of the TV show "Dirty Jobs," testified before the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation on the de-skilling of America, and the way in which skilled manual labor has been undervalued and derided in the USA to its detriment:

"A few months ago in Atlanta I ran into Tom Vilsack, our Secretary of Agriculture. Tom told me about a governor who was unable to move forward on the construction of a power plant. The reason was telling. It wasn't a lack of funds. It wasn't a lack of support. It was a lack of qualified welders.
In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel.

In a hundred different ways, we have slowly marginalized an entire category of critical professions, reshaping our expectations of a "good job" into something that no longer looks like work. A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber -- if you can find one -- is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both.

I came here today because guys like my grandfather are no less important to civilized life than they were 50 years ago. Maybe they're in short supply because we don't acknowledge them they way we used to. We leave our check on the kitchen counter, and hope the work gets done. That needs to change."

[tommymac]

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/mike-rowe-senate-testimony.html

Good points, after working on the jobsites the last few years, I see some of these tradesmen make some damn good money, when theyre working. Theyre not always guaranteed steady work, and theres all the political union BS to deal with too.