Bin laden dead

[pauldun170]

....

[Rangerscott]

Pics or it didnt happen.

[goof2]

Good. My baser instincts hope they wrap his body in pig carcases before they bury him.

[Corey]

Obama is about to speak. MSNBC is saying that US troops have his body.

[Rangerscott]

The guy on nbc news is annoying me. Bottom of the screen says laden dead but he keeps intrupting people talking to repeat himself.

Laden may be dead but that isnt going to stop "TERRORISM".........spooky ghost.

[pauldun170]

Meh...rather finish watching A Bronx Tale

[Dave]

watching the phillies mets game. whole stadium has been chanting USA for about ten minutes now

[Rangerscott]

Family guy

[derf]

I don't believe it until I see obama show the long form death certificate.

in other news kate middelton was spotted in pakistan with a scoped rifle and a guillie suit

[Mikey]

Family guy

Me too.

[Dave]

I don't believe it until I see obama show the long form death certificate.

in other news kate middelton was spotted in pakistan with a scoped rifle and a guillie suit

bahahahaha

[Corey]

Yay excessive hyperbole! Is this what our fucking news has become?

[pauldun170]

I don't believe it until I see obama show the long form death certificate.

in other news kate middelton was spotted in pakistan with a scoped rifle and a guillie suit

:lol

[derf]

Obama's speech is reportedly delayed by Biden's insistence on having a fireworks display that says"FUCK YEAH!" on hand.

[Dave]

Obama's speech is reportedly delayed by Biden's insistence on having a fireworks display that says"FUCK YEAH!" on hand.

with katy perry soundtrack

[pauldun170]

Let it be known, if you attack the united states we will get you probably when you are old and sick 10-20 years later....probably a month before you were going to die of natural causes.

[derf]

Some where Bush is sitting in a corner rocking back and forth saying "no fair" over and over

[Corey]

Some where Bush is sitting in a corner rocking back and forth saying "no fair" over and over

Not at all. He's drunk, riding 4 wheelers and trying to get that slightly retarded girl down the road to show Mr. President her big dumb tits.

[derf]

R.I.P Osama Bin Laden - World Hide And Go Seek Champion (2001 - 2011)

[Dave]

Not at all. He's drunk, riding 4 wheelers and trying to get that slightly retarded girl down the road to show Mr. President her big dumb tits.

nothing like underage retard titties

[derf]

Ok, I just finished watching the president speak. I kept waiting for Kanye west to pop out and say something

[Corey]

nothing like underage retard titties

They're big, milky, and covered in melted chocolate and gum.

[Dave]

They're big, milky, and covered in melted chocolate and gum.

sometimes lost toys pop out from behind em

[Dave]

Ok, I just finished watching the president speak. I kept waiting for Kanye west to pop out and say something

yo yo yo you did a nice job but beyonce had the best terrorist execution of all time oF ALL TIME!

[derf]

The homeless dude that lives in the park across from the white house is getting a little pissed right now

[anthonyk]

Damn, you guys are en fuego. :lol

[pauldun170]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/48/hes_dead.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=5501)

[101lifts2]

Of course it took us 10 years to find him....how else would the government milk us for a 10 year war....then only to find the guy just slightly after starting another war.

Isn't America great!

[Homeslice]

I kept waiting for Kanye west to pop out and say something

You mean something like, I remember the flack Obama caught during the debate when he said if he had credible intelligence he would go into Pakistan and kill bin Laden. Who's complaining now?

[derf]

I don't remember that specific event, however, obama just made good on a campaign promise then.

In other news, expect anti american violence heightened security, and I bet every gov agency if planning for another terrorist attack

[goof2]

You mean something like, I remember the flack Obama caught during the debate when he said if he had credible intelligence he would go into Pakistan and kill bin Laden. Who's complaining now?

I'm guessing much of Pakistan will be complaining shortly along with some others. Either way I didn't think Obama would do it and I'm glad I was wrong.

[Homeslice]

BTW.....

Amazing what you can accomplish when you look in the right country...

redflip

[tallywacker]

Penn State

http://i.imgur.com/7I2Rl.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91WPPcqbFQ4

[tallywacker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCh7pH5sCt8

[Porkchop]

Penn State

http://i.imgur.com/7I2Rl.jpg


Tens of thousands of Ohio State students erupted down and jumped into Mirror Lake while singing the national anthem and chanting USA. It is only legal to enter the lake the thursday before the Ohio State/Michigan football game in November. Cops stood and watched. This video was re-tweeted by the NY Times...

http://yfrog.com/6c3f9z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCh7pH5sCt8

Fucking awesome..... :rockwoot::lol:

[Particle Man]

I'm having bacon for breakfast to commemorate the occasion.

[Adeptus_Minor]

I'm having bacon for breakfast to commemorate the occasion.

You didn't need a reason. :nee::lol:

[Particle Man]

You didn't need a reason. :nee::lol:

Exactly :lol

[OneNotSoSickPsycho]

Funny how a few months ago everyone was saying they hate Obama, and now everyone is saying he's a hero. Silly America.

[Kaneman]

Damn, I woke up to a Gulibull infestation this morning....

[RACER X]

Funny how a few months ago everyone was saying they hate Obama, and now everyone is saying he's a hero. Silly America.

Not sure how he's a hero, he said YES,go do it

That doesn't make him a hero, the spec ops team that went in,diff story

[OneSickPsycho]

Funny how a few months ago everyone was saying they hate Obama, and now everyone is saying he's a hero. Silly America.

The masses are a fickle bunch.

[Kaneman]

Yo, I wonder if they finally found all those WMDs in that mansion he was supposedly in....

[Particle Man]

Funny how a few months ago everyone was saying they hate Obama, and now everyone is saying he's a hero. Silly America.

I'm not everyone. I applaud the SEAL's who did the actual work.

That's it.

[RACER X]

Hmmmm possible pics

NSFW

http://theconservativetreehouse.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/breaking-whiskey-tango-foxtrot-emergency-obama-speech-in-minutes/

[Homeslice]

LOL, college students would use any excuse to have a rally (riot).......even if they don't actually attend that college

[the chi]

I'm in the pics or it didnt happen group. To me it feels pretty staged, after all the hullabaloo Trump is stirring up, the low approval ratings that keep dropping and now all of a sudden, his reign is responsible for getting Bin Laden? Hmmmm...

[Kaneman]

Pics are supposed to be acceptable proof? Come on guys...

[Homeslice]

Hmmmm possible pics

NSFW

http://theconservativetreehouse.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/breaking-whiskey-tango-foxtrot-emergency-obama-speech-in-minutes/

Thought he was much older than that

[the chi]

Well the fact that we gave enough of a shit to keep to his religious beliefs and he was BURIED at SEA lacks credibility...seriously, we just destroyed the proof we got the bastard. I'm sure they'll be giving us "proof" but the world will never really be sure.

[Kaneman]

seriously, we just destroyed the proof we got the bastard.

There is a reason for everything....

[goof2]

Well the fact that we gave enough of a shit to keep to his religious beliefs and he was BURIED at SEA lacks credibility...seriously, we just destroyed the proof we got the bastard. I'm sure they'll be giving us "proof" but the world will never really be sure.

I suspect they did so for the same reasons Adolf Eichmann was buried at sea. No country wants to host the grave site, it would be a nightmare to prevent vandalism from his detractors, and would be a rallying point for his supporters.

[tommymac]

I suspect they did so for the same reasons Adolf Eichmann was buried at sea. No country wants to host the grave site, it would be a nightmare to prevent vandalism from his detractors, and would be a rallying point for his supporters.

Thats what I am hearing on the news.

And good riddance you piece of shit

[the chi]

I suspect they did so for the same reasons Adolf Eichmann was buried at sea. No country wants to host the grave site, it would be a nightmare to prevent vandalism from his detractors, and would be a rallying point for his supporters.

While I understand that, and would agree to an extent with doing this, it still lends suspicion to whether or not we really got him. Perhaps hanging him from the walls for a few hours would have made this more reasonable.

[fatbuckRTO]

While I understand that, and would agree to an extent with doing this, it still lends suspicion to whether or not we really got him. Perhaps hanging him from the walls for a few hours would have made this more reasonable.

Even hanging his body from the White House gate would not be enough for some people. If you saw his corpse, would you be satisfied? Do you know what he looked like well enough from a few photographs and video footage that you could say for sure it wasn't a stunt corpse under a foot of facial hair? Would you clip a fingernail and do your own DNA test?

All we ever really had, or ever would have had, was the word of the government.

I'm glad he's dead.

[goof2]

While I understand that, and would agree to an extent with doing this, it still lends suspicion to whether or not we really got him. Perhaps hanging him from the walls for a few hours would have made this more reasonable.

I get the skepticism but Obama would have to be absolutely brain dead to make this claim without being certain. If Bin Laden were still alive all he would need to do is make and release a video with a Mark Twainian "Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated" statement. It wouldn't surprise me if a video is on the shelf and does surface but I don't think it will have any proof of a date.

Sure this could be a ruse, but if so it has a massive downside and would be pretty easy to prove false.

[Homeslice]

As always, goof = the voice of reason

[Homeslice]

I'm glad he's dead.

3:10 :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n4s-lkYm0w

[udman]

Google maps reviews of the compound Bin Laden was in. It brings teh lolz...

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=&q=Pakistani+Military+Academy+Abbottabad,+Pakistan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[Corey]

Hmmmm possible pics

NSFW

http://theconservativetreehouse.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/breaking-whiskey-tango-foxtrot-emergency-obama-speech-in-minutes/

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6568249-webs-bin-laden-death-photo-just-the-photo-is-fake

Fake. Not saying that Osama isn't dead. I think he's tits up at the moment, and the soldiers are getting all their "fucking Bin Laden's dead body" pictures to post on facebook. But the pics released are fakes.

[Papa_Complex]

The only thing that I'm wondering, at this point, if we're going to find out that it's far easier to kill a terrorist leader than it is to kill a martyr?

[fnfalman]

Who gives a shit? Martyr or leader, kill'em all and let Allah sort'em out.

Let's see how many more of these hi-falutin' motherfuckers who are used to make the other dumbasses to go out and be martyrs, but now know that they are touchable. It may take some time but in the end, they all are touchable. Let's see how they like it now.

[wildchild]

I'm in the pics or it didnt happen group. To me it feels pretty staged, after all the hullabaloo Trump is stirring up, the low approval ratings that keep dropping and now all of a sudden, his reign is responsible for getting Bin Laden? Hmmmm...

and didn't his announcement timing interrupt Trump's show last night? he's gonna make the Donald mad. LOL

[goof2]

As always, goof = the voice of reason

No, I just want to get to the REAL conspiracy. Why did Obama time the announcement to preempt the Celebrity Apprentice!:lol:

The only thing that I'm wondering, at this point, if we're going to find out that it's far easier to kill a terrorist leader than it is to kill a martyr?

I really can't bring myself to care and no matter what the response is I think he had to be killed. From the point of view of America I think the option to not kill or capture him ceased to exist after 9/11. From the point of view of Bin Laden's jihadist followers have they really been holding back? The killing of Bin Laden only makes a difference if it motivates attacks that otherwise wouldn't have happened. It is my belief that any attack large enough to make us think twice about killing Bin Laden would have happened with our without his death.

Ultimately the good thing about the possibility of Bin Laden becoming a martyr is he has to be dead first.

[goof2]

and didn't his announcement timing interrupt Trump's show last night? he's gonna make the Donald mad. LOL

Dammit, you beat me to it.:td::lol:

[Porkchop]

Who gives a shit? Martyr or leader, kill'em all and let Allah sort'em out.

Let's see how many more of these hi-falutin' motherfuckers who are used to make the other dumbasses to go out and be martyrs, but now know that they are touchable. It may take some time but in the end, they all are touchable. Let's see how they like it now.

This :th::th::th:

[Porkchop]

LOL another video from real early this morning. More lake action. This one has "God Bless America", the National Anthem, and "We dont give a damn for the whole f*cking Taliban" :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDCpeTEd-PY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[derf]

and here is how it actually happened

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDyrkU0WAQ&feature=player_embedded

[Homeslice]

The secret team that killed bin Laden
By Marc Ambinder
National Journal

From Ghazi Air Base in Pakistan, the modified MH-60 helicopters made their way to the garrison suburb of Abbottabad, about 30 miles from the center of Islamabad. Aboard were Navy SEALs, flown across the border from Afghanistan, along with tactical signals, intelligence collectors, and navigators using highly classified hyperspectral imagers.

After bursts of fire over 40 minutes, 22 people were killed or captured. One of the dead was Osama bin Laden, done in by a double tap -- boom, boom -- to the left side of his face. His body was aboard the choppers that made the trip back. One had experienced mechanical failure and was destroyed by U.S. forces, military and White House officials tell National Journal.

Were it not for this high-value target, it might have been a routine mission for the specially trained and highly mythologized SEAL Team Six, officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, but known even to the locals at their home base Dam Neck in Virginia as just DevGru.

This HVT was special, and the raids required practice, so they replicated the one-acre compound at Camp Alpha, a segregated section of Bagram Air Base. Trial runs were held in early April.

DevGru belongs to the Joint Special Operations Command, an extraordinary and unusual collection of classified standing task forces and special-missions units. They report to the president and operate worldwide based on the legal (or extra-legal) premises of classified presidential directives. Though the general public knows about the special SEALs and their brothers in Delta Force, most JSOC missions never leak. We only hear about JSOC when something goes bad (a British aid worker is accidentally killed) or when something really big happens (a merchant marine captain is rescued at sea), and even then, the military remains especially sensitive about their existence. Several dozen JSOC operatives have died in Pakistan over the past several years. Their names are released by the Defense Department in the usual manner, but with a cover story -- generally, they were killed in training accidents in eastern Afghanistan. That's the code.

How did the helicopters elude the Pakistani air defense network? Did they spoof transponder codes? Were they painted and tricked out with Pakistan Air Force equipment? If so -- and we may never know -- two other JSOC units, the Technical Application Programs Office and the Aviation Technology Evaluation Group, were responsible. These truly are the silent squirrels -- never getting public credit and not caring one whit. Since 9/11, the JSOC units and their task forces have become the U.S. government's most effective and lethal weapon against terrorists and their networks, drawing plenty of unwanted, and occasionally unflattering, attention to themselves in the process.

JSOC costs the country more than $1 billion annually. The command has its critics, but it has escaped significant congressional scrutiny and has operated largely with impunity since 9/11. Some of its interrogators and operators were involved in torture and rendition, and the line between its intelligence-gathering activities and the CIA's has been blurred.

But Sunday's operation provides strong evidence that the CIA and JSOC work well together. Sometimes intelligence needs to be developed rapidly, to get inside the enemy's operational loop. And sometimes it needs to be cultivated, grown as if it were delicate bacteria in a petri dish.

In an interview at CIA headquarters two weeks ago, a senior intelligence official said the two proud groups of American secret warriors had been "deconflicted and basically integrated" -- finally -- 10 years after 9/11. Indeed, according to accounts given to journalists by five senior administration officials Sunday night, the CIA gathered the intelligence that led to bin Laden's location. A memo from CIA Director Leon Panetta sent Sunday night provides some hints of how the information was collected and analyzed. In it, he thanked the National Security Agency and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency for their help. NSA figured out, somehow, that there was no telephone or Internet service in the compound. How it did this without Pakistan's knowledge is a secret. The NGIA makes the military's maps but also develops their pattern recognition software -- no doubt used to help establish, by February of this year, that the CIA could say with "high probability" that bin Laden and his family were living there.

Recently, JSOC built a new Targeting and Analysis Center in Rosslyn, Va. Where the NationalCounterterrorism Center tends to focus on threats to the homeland, TAAC, whose existence was first disclosed by the Associated Press, focuses outward, on active "kinetic" -- or lethal -- counterterrorism-missions abroad. Its creation surprised the NCTC's director, Michael Leiter, who was suspicious about its intent until he visited.

That the center could be stood up under the nose of some of the nation's most senior intelligence officials without their full knowledge testifies to the power and reach of JSOC, whose size has tripled since 9/11. The command now includes more than 4,000 soldiers and civilians. It has its own intelligence division, which may or may not have been involved in last night's effort, and has gobbled up a number of free-floating Defense Department entities that allowed it to rapidly acquire, test, and field new technologies.

Under a variety of standing orders, JSOC is involved in more than 50 current operations spanning a dozen countries, and its units, supported by so-called "white," or acknowledged, special operations entities like Rangers, Special Forces battalions, SEAL teams, and Air Force special ops units from the larger Special Operations Command, are responsible for most of the "kinetic" action in Afghanistan.

Pentagon officials are conscious of the enormous stress that 10 years of war have placed on the command. JSOC resources are heavily taxed by the operational tempo in Afghanistan and Pakistan, officials have said. The current commander, Vice Adm. William McRaven, and Maj. Gen. Joseph Votel, McRaven's nominated replacement, have been pushing to add people and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance technology to areas outside the war theater where al-Qaida and its affiliates continue to thrive.

Earlier this year, it seemed that the elite units would face the same budget pressures that the entire military was experiencing. Not anymore. The military found a way, largely by reducing contracting staff and borrowing others from the Special Operations Command, to add 50 positions to JSOC. And Votel wants to add several squadrons to the "Tier One" units -- Delta and the SEALs.

When Gen. Stanley McChrystal became JSOC's commanding general in 2004, he and his intelligence chief, Maj. Gen. Michael Flynn, set about transforming the way the subordinate units analyze and act on intelligence. Insurgents in Iraq were exploiting the slow decision loop that coalition commanders used, and enhanced interrogation techniques were frowned upon after the Abu Ghraib scandal. But the hunger for actionable tactical intelligence on insurgents was palpable.

The way JSOC solved this problem remains a carefully guarded secret, but people familiar with the unit suggest that McChrystal and Flynn introduced hardened commandos to basic criminal forensic techniques and then used highly advanced and still-classified technology to transform bits of information into actionable intelligence. One way they did this was to create forward-deployed fusion cells, where JSOC units were paired with intelligence analysts from the NSA and the NGA. Such analysis helped the CIA to establish, with a high degree of probability, that Osama bin Laden and his family were hiding in that particular compound.

These technicians could "exploit and analyze" data obtained from the battlefield instantly, using their access to the government's various biometric, facial-recognition, and voice-print databases. These cells also used highly advanced surveillance technology and computer-based pattern analysis to layer predictive models of insurgent behavior onto real-time observations.

The military has begun to incorporate these techniques across the services. And Flynn will soon be promoted to a job within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, where he'll be tasked with transforming the way intelligence is gathered, analyzed, and utilized.

[Avatard]

I think the question isn't how did they overlook a compound that was eight times the size of everything around it, with 12-18 foot walls, that was right down the street from the army installation...given that the place looked like a fortress, and they knew Osama was probably hiding out in Pakistan...hey, it could have been Ricky Martin, trying to lay low since he was outed as gay.

Slipped him into the drink in an awful hurry too. I'm sure it's all legit.

I think the question is; why did they pick 11:35 pm last night to re-elect Obama?

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like the guy...I'm just saying...

Why now?

[Apoc]

I'm in the pics or it didnt happen group. To me it feels pretty staged, after all the hullabaloo Trump is stirring up, the low approval ratings that keep dropping and now all of a sudden, his reign is responsible for getting Bin Laden? Hmmmm...


So because you dont like him, he couldnt have possibly caught Bin Laden?

I dont know how it feels 'staged', and I think if Bush had made this announcement, you'd be chanting his name from the rooftops.

[Papa_Complex]

So because you dont like him, he couldnt have possibly caught Bin Laden?

I dont know how it feels 'staged', and I think if Bush had made this announcement, you'd be chanting his name from the rooftops.

Oh, come on now. It has got to be staged. Just like how Bush staged the 9/11 attacks :lol:

I'd be willing to bet that the people, who think this was staged, didn't say a word every time that the "threat level" rose, COINCIDENTALLY, when there was something in the news against the Bush government.

[the chi]

So because you dont like him, he couldnt have possibly caught Bin Laden?

I dont know how it feels 'staged', and I think if Bush had made this announcement, you'd be chanting his name from the rooftops.


Dude come on. Get real. Even if Bush was Prez and he did the same shit I'd say the same thing. I love the man (G.W.), but "killing" Osama and immediately disposing of the body in the same 24 hour span before it's even reported is fishy no matter who does it. If you don't see that you're dumber than you think.

[tommymac]

So because you dont like him, he couldnt have possibly caught Bin Laden?

I dont know how it feels 'staged', and I think if Bush had made this announcement, you'd be chanting his name from the rooftops.

its them making things even after the iran hostage crisis. Mostof that occured durring the carter administration, then regan comes in, they get released and Regan was the hero LOL

[Apoc]

but "killing" Osama and immediately disposing of the body in the same 24 hour span before it's even reported is fishy no matter who does it. If you don't see that you're dumber than you think.


Theres nothing fishy about it at all. They avoided the crap that comes with a high profile killing, and made sure he got an anonymous burial where there would be none of his supporters.

I have zero doubt they killed him. The only 'dumb' thing in this thread is the people pretending this should have been handled differently. Theres nothing fishy about it. Just like the Russians not parading Hitlers body, and instead disposing of it anonymously. Thats what you do with people like this, period.

Did you expect them to put the body on display? Maybe pass out pictures to make you feel better about it? They avoided the shitstorm that would have come from his muslim supoorters, and you cant blame them.

[tallywacker]

Oh god fucking Bin Laden truthers now

[Archren]

Did you expect them to put the body on display? Maybe pass out pictures to make you feel better about it? They avoided the shitstorm that would have come from his muslim supoorters, and you cant blame them.

This. We certainly had enough of that sort of debacle after Abu Ghraib. And the joes in Afghanistan with their trophy pictures.

[101lifts2]

How do we know the guy wasn't dead 2 years ago? Maybe this was simply the cat in the bag waking to be let out at the right moment.

I honestly don't trust any government as far as I can throw it. This one is no exception.

[Avatard]

Anyone remember a mobster from here in Jersey called "The Iceman"?

[goof2]

I'm getting the feeling there are enough people skeptical of the claim that the death photo the government says they have will be released. I also get the feeling that will accomplish nothing.

I suppose that the claim Bin Laden is dead could be false, but in order to feel safe making that claim the government would still need to have Bin Laden in custody. That is just as good to me though. Capturing him and keeping him around for information certainly makes sense while falsely claiming he is dead and gone eliminates the hassles openly holding him would create.

For all I know they could be wheeling him Hannibal Lecter style in to Guantanamo Bay right now with the intention of him never being heard from publicly again. About the only thing that makes me somewhat reluctant to believe that scenario is my impression that Obama wouldn't want to do it. Of course candidate Obama couldn't wait to close that prison while President Obama has reluctantly accepted its necessity so who knows.:shrug:

[zerioustt]

There was a guy blogging about what was going on at obama's compound who lived very closs by. Also I agee that there was no way they were going to parade his body around for everyone to see him. what makes no sense is Obama getting all this praise. The seals got a beat on him and asked if they could move forward. Even then Obama probably didn't give the authority.

[azoomm]

We just created a martyr.

I think it's going to get worse. Now, much worse.

There was a guy blogging about what was going on at obama's compound who lived very closs by. Also I agee that there was no way they were going to parade his body around for everyone to see him. what makes no sense is Obama getting all this praise. The seals got a beat on him and asked if they could move forward. Even then Obama probably didn't give the authority.

This guy... http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/social.media/05/02/osama.twitter.reports/index.html

[tallywacker]

We just created a martyr.

I think it's going to get worse. Now, much worse.



This guy... http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/social.media/05/02/osama.twitter.reports/index.html

Who cares, those that hate us are always going to hate us.


Just like there will always be idiots that believe 9/11 was fake, Obama is from Africa, and Bin Laden is still alive.

[Archren]

We just created a martyr.

I think it's going to get worse. Now, much worse.



Point. But, we didn't create the martyr.. he knew what he was doing from the very beginning by plotting and taking credit for the 9/11 attacks. So.. he signed his own death warrant ten years ago. And, as someone mentioned in an article, I'm glad his death was up close and personal, double-tap in the face, and not some anonymous drone plane.

That being said... on a mildly amusing note.. one of his wives threw him under the bus: http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/05/02/bin-laden-wives-can-say-the-darndest-things/

[azoomm]

Point. But, we didn't create the martyr.. he knew what he was doing from the very beginning by plotting and taking credit for the 9/11 attacks. So.. he signed his own death warrant ten years ago. And, as someone mentioned in an article, I'm glad his death was up close and personal, double-tap in the face, and not some anonymous drone plane.

That being said... on a mildly amusing note.. one of his wives threw him under the bus: http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/05/02/bin-laden-wives-can-say-the-darndest-things/

Meh, we aren't dealing with logical people in a logical situation. This is one of those deals where... OH yeah, well you killed MY pawn so I'm going to get even... It doesn't matter who started it, it is just constant and will continue as long as someone is willing to pick up the cause. I'm quite sure there are fanatics out there that will take up his cause. I mean, he does have 25 or 26 children.

I heard about her using his name, I also saw a report that he used one of his wives as a human shied. Curious if he was getting even...

[Sixxxxer]

Who cares, those that hate us are always going to hate us.


Just like there will always be idiots that believe 9/11 was fake, Obama is from Africa, and Bin Laden is still alive.

9/11 Certainly wasnt fake...you dont just "Fake 3,000 People Dying" Do I think a plane hit the pentagon? No...And nothing you do or say will convince me otherwise.

Bin laden on the otherhand? I'm happy he's dead. I dont second guess him being dead...But I dont really think it it changes anything. Do troops get to come home? No...if anything, it's gonna make for more outbursts or some young hotshot al queda who thinks he's the predecessor to Bin Laden trying to stir shit up.

[defector]

So am I the only one who had flashbacks of every "asteroid apocalypse" (Armageddon, Deep Impact, Fifth Element, etc) movie of the last 10 years or so as Obama was walking up to the podium (before they put the graphic on the bottom of the screen)?

[Papa_Complex]

So has Trump claimed responsibility for it yet?

[Homeslice]

So am I the only one who had flashbacks of every "asteroid apocalypse" (Armageddon, Deep Impact, Fifth Element, etc) movie of the last 10 years or so as Obama was walking up to the podium ?

I'm guessing you were.

[goof2]

There was a guy blogging about what was going on at obama's compound who lived very closs by. Also I agee that there was no way they were going to parade his body around for everyone to see him. what makes no sense is Obama getting all this praise. The seals got a beat on him and asked if they could move forward. Even then Obama probably didn't give the authority.

While it looks to me like the media has already started going overboard with praise Obama does at the very least deserve some of it. From what I have seen so far this wasn't some random piece of information the SEALs stumbled upon. It was the culmination of years of work by the intelligence community to track Bin Laden down and having the will to authorize, create, and execute a plan to act on that information. There is no way that could have happened without direction from the White House and ultimately Obama.

On the authority thing specifically, Obama claims he gave the authority, I have no reason to doubt it, and considering this raid involved effectively invading a sovereign nation, if only for a short time, I suspect Obama's authority was required.

[Homeslice]

Can't ever satisfy the Muslim community, lol:

Islamic scholars criticize bin Laden's sea burial
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Hamza Hendawi, Associated Press Mon May 2, 1:25 pm ET

CAIRO – Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition that may further provoke militant calls for revenge attacks against American targets.

Although there appears to be some room for debate over the burial — as with many issues within the faith — a wide range of senior Islamic scholars interpreted it as a humiliating disregard for the standard Muslim practice of placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca.

Sea burials can be allowed, they said, but only in special cases where the death occurred aboard a ship.

Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning.

A radical cleric in Lebanon, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said, "The Americans want to humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the interest of the U.S. administration."

A U.S. official said the burial decision was made after concluding that it would have been difficult to find a country willing to accept the remains. There was also speculation about worry that a grave site could have become a rallying point for militants.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters.

President Barack Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic custom, which requires speedy burial, and the Pentagon later said the body was placed into the waters of the northern Arabian Sea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures — including washing the corpse — aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.

But the Lebanese cleric Mohammed called it a "strategic mistake" that was bound to stoke rage.

In Washington, CIA director Leon Panetta warned that "terrorists almost certainly will attempt to avenge" the killing of the mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks.

"Bin Laden is dead," Panetta wrote in a memo to CIA staff. "Al-Qaida is not."

According to Islamic teachings, the highest honor to be bestowed on the dead is giving the deceased a swift burial, preferably before sunset. Those who die while traveling at sea can have their bodies committed to the bottom of the ocean if they are far off the coast, according to Islamic tradition.

"They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam," Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said about bin Laden's burial. "If the family does not want him, it's really simple in Islam: You dig up a grave anywhere, even on a remote island, you say the prayers and that's it."

"Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances," he added. "This is not one of them."

But Mohammed Qudah, a professor of Islamic law at the University of Jordan, said burying the Saudi-born bin Laden at sea was not forbidden if there was nobody to receive the body and provide a Muslim burial.

"The land and the sea belong to God, who is able to protect and raise the dead at the end of times for Judgment Day," he said. "It's neither true nor correct to claim that there was nobody in the Muslim world ready to receive bin Laden's body."

Clerics in Iraq, where an offshoot of al-Qaida is blamed for the death of thousands of people since 2003, also criticized the U.S. action. One said it only benefited fish.

"If a man dies on a ship that is a long distance from land, then the dead man should be buried at the sea," said Shiite cleric Ibrahim al-Jabari. "But if he dies on land, then he should be buried in the ground, not to be thrown into the sea. Otherwise, this would be only inviting fish to a banquet."

The Islamic tradition of a quick burial was the subject of intense debate in Iraq in 2003 when U.S. forces embalmed the bodies of Saddam Hussein's two sons after they were killed in a firefight. Their bodies were later shown to media.

"What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims," said another Islamic scholar from Iraq, Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's famous Abu Hanifa mosque. "It is not acceptable and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea. The body of bin Laden should have been handed over to his family to look for a country or land to bury him."

Prominent Egyptian Islamic analyst and lawyer Montasser el-Zayat said bin Laden's sea burial was designed to prevent his grave from becoming a shrine. But an option was an unmarked grave.

"They don't want to see him become a symbol, but he is already a symbol in people's hearts."

[Sixxxxer]

http://i55.tinypic.com/4gji1w.png
http://i.imgur.com/JbU2F.png

[EpyonXero]

http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg

[Apoc]

Anyone remember a mobster from here in Jersey called "The Iceman"?


Ya, I actually read a couple of books about him. Richard Kuklinski.

[EpyonXero]

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/87c97e5231065dced26f356a588e896f4ba135f6.jpg

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-hide-and-seek-champion.jpg

So has Trump claimed responsibility for it yet?

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/5680989491_7b2ef348fe_z.jpg

[pauldun170]

I didn't realize we were the type of country that was supposed to be hauling the enemies corpse around to parade around on a publicity tour.


Anywhooze awesome pics guys

[pauldun170]

As for the people complaining about how we disposed of his carcass, they would complain no matter what we did..... F'em

[Corey]

I hope they wrapped him in bacon, basted his body with a honey glaze, stuffed his insides with sausage, and maybe put an apple in the mouth as a proper presentation to the sea creatures that will be feasting on his remains.

[Apoc]

I hope they wrapped him in bacon, basted his body with a honey glaze, stuffed his insides with sausage, and maybe put an apple in the mouth as a proper presentation to the sea creatures that will be feasting on his remains.



I'd prefer they stuffed him with candy and gave people blindfolds and poles.

[derf]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/227241_2070403524645_1381560046_32531531_6011191_n .jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230427_2068401954607_1381560046_32528353_4494311_n .jpg

[tommymac]

I'd prefer they stuffed him with candy and gave people blindfolds and poles.

that would be more fun if he was still alive when that was done ;)

[goof2]

I didn't realize we were the type of country that was supposed to be hauling the enemies corpse around to parade around on a publicity tour.

You would be surprised, similar things haven't been unheard of in the past. It also isn't necessary though since I don't think it would make a difference to those doubting he is dead. They could hold a public viewing and all people would see is the body of a 6 1/2 foot tall Middle Eastern dirt merchant with heavy facial hair they have only otherwise seen on crappy videotapes. Not exactly perfect for making a positive ID.

That also ignores what a nightmare it would be to prevent the public spectacle from being targeted by Bin Laden's supporters.

As for the people complaining about how we disposed of his carcass, they would complain no matter what we did..... F'em

Pretty much. There is no practicable way they would be happy with what happened to Bin Laden's body. It has tempered somewhat but I'm still halfway tempted to support the "body wrapped in pig carcasses" idea I posted about last night.

[EpyonXero]

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/tumblr_lklp15mesn1qzq4qro1_500.jpg

Screengrab from Sean Bonner. But this is not a joke! In a company blog post today, Yahoo reported that two-thirds of people searching for "Who is Osama Bin Laden?" today were teenagers. Yes, that's right, a non-insignificant number of teenagers in America do not know who Osama bin Laden is.

According to Yahoo!, The Top Searched Questions on Osama bin Laden are (based on Sunday, 5/1):
1. Is Osama bin Laden dead?
2. How did Osama bin Laden die?
3. Who killed Osama bin Laden?
4. How old is Osama bin Laden
5. Who is Osama bin Laden
6. Where was Osama bin Laden killed?
7. Is Osama bin Laden dead or alive?
8. How tall is Osama bin Laden?

News of Osama bin Laden's death seemed to have struck a chord with younger folks who grew up during the war on terrorism.
- On Yahoo!, 1 in 3 searches for "how did osama bin laden die" on Sunday were from teens ages 13-17.
- According to Yahoo!, 40% of searches on Sunday for "who killed osama bin laden" were from people ages 13-20.
- However, it seems teens ages 13-17 were seeking more information as they made up 66% of searches for "who is osama bin laden?"

[EpyonXero]

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjtagkzGk1qz9dpjo1_400.png

[Homeslice]

8. How tall is Osama bin Laden?
Who the fuck would seach for that?

And who puts their true birthdate on their Yahoo profile anyway?

[derf]

Who the fuck would seach for that?

And who puts their true birthdate on their Yahoo profile anyway?

Yahoo is still around?

[Particle Man]

Yahoo is still around?

Yeah - it's right next to "Whoopie!" and "Holy FUCK!"

[OneSickPsycho]

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/tumblr_lklp15mesn1qzq4qro1_500.jpg

Some of those pics look like people over 20... no doubt Obama voters... :lol:

[tommymac]

Some of those pics look like people over 20... no doubt Obama voters... :lol:

See if he can ride this wave till election time.

[EpyonXero]

Good article on how they found him.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hzn2dQHiUZBXHeHm6Lv78Uz6SwAA?docId=aaf5f9e12 731497d8a3147a0e47899d4

Phone call by Kuwaiti courier led to bin Laden
(AP) – 5 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.

That monitored phone call, recounted Monday by a U.S. official, ended a years-long search for bin Laden's personal courier, the key break in a worldwide manhunt. The courier, in turn, led U.S. intelligence to a walled compound in northeast Pakistan, where a team of Navy SEALs shot bin Laden to death.

The violent final minutes were the culmination of years of intelligence work. Inside the CIA team hunting bin Laden, it always was clear that bin Laden's vulnerability was his couriers. He was too smart to let al-Qaida foot soldiers, or even his senior commanders, know his hideout. But if he wanted to get his messages out, somebody had to carry them, someone bin Laden trusted with his life.

Shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, detainees in the CIA's secret prison network told interrogators about an important courier with the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti who was close to bin Laden. After the CIA captured al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he confirmed knowing al-Kuwaiti but denied he had anything to do with al-Qaida.

Then in 2004, top al-Qaida operative Hassan Ghul was captured in Iraq. Ghul told the CIA that al-Kuwaiti was a courier, someone crucial to the terrorist organization. In particular, Ghul said, the courier was close to Faraj al-Libi, who replaced Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational commander. It was a key break in the hunt for in bin Laden's personal courier.

"Hassan Ghul was the linchpin," a U.S. official said.

Finally, in May 2005, al-Libi was captured. Under CIA interrogation, al-Libi admitted that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed, he received the word through a courier. But he made up a name for the courier and denied knowing al-Kuwaiti, a denial that was so adamant and unbelievable that the CIA took it as confirmation that he and Mohammed were protecting the courier. It only reinforced the idea that al-Kuwaiti was very important to al-Qaida.

If they could find the man known as al-Kuwaiti, they'd find bin Laden.

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

It took years of work before the CIA identified the courier's real name: Sheikh Abu Ahmed, a Pakistani man born in Kuwait. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA's sources didn't know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.

Ahmed was identified by detainees as a mid-level operative who helped al-Qaida members and their families find safe havens. But his whereabouts were such a mystery to U.S. intelligence that, according to Guantanamo Bay documents, one detainee said Ahmed was wounded while fleeing U.S. forces during the invasion of Afghanistan and later died in the arms of the detainee.

But in the middle of last year, Ahmed had a telephone conversation with someone being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. Ahmed was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch Ahmed.

In August 2010, Ahmed unknowingly led authorities to a compound in the northeast Pakistani town of Abbottabad, where al-Libi had once lived. The walls surrounding the property were as high as 18 feet and topped with barbed wire. Intelligence officials had known about the house for years, but they always suspected that bin Laden would be surrounded by heavily armed security guards. Nobody patrolled the compound in Abbottabad.

In fact, nobody came or went. And no telephone or Internet lines ran from the compound. The CIA soon believed that bin Laden was hiding in plain sight, in a hideout especially built to go unnoticed. But since bin Laden never traveled and nobody could get onto the compound without passing through two security gates, there was no way to be sure.

Despite that uncertainty, intelligence officials realized this could represent the best chance ever to get to bin Laden. They decided not to share the information with anyone, including staunch counterterrorism allies such as Britain, Canada and Australia.

By mid-February, the officials were convinced a "high-value target" was hiding in the compound. President Barack Obama wanted to take action.

"They were confident and their confidence was growing: 'This is different. This intelligence case is different. What we see in this compound is different than anything we've ever seen before,'" John Brennan, the president's top counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. "I was confident that we had the basis to take action."

Options were limited. The compound was in a residential neighborhood in a sovereign country. If Obama ordered an airstrike and bin Laden was not in the compound, it would be a huge diplomatic problem. Even if Obama was right, obliterating the compound might make it nearly impossible to confirm bin Laden's death.

Said Brennan, "The president had to evaluate the strength of that information, and then made what I believe was one of the most gutsiest calls of any president in recent memory."

Brennan told CNN Tuesday that "there was no single piece of information that was an 'ah-hah' moment." He said officials took "bits and pieces" of intelligence gathered and analyzed over a long period of time to nail down the leads they needed.

Obama tapped two dozen members of the Navy's elite SEAL Team Six to carry out a raid with surgical accuracy.

Before dawn Monday morning, a pair of helicopters left Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. The choppers entered Pakistani airspace using sophisticated technology intended to evade that country's radar systems, a U.S. official said.

Officially, it was a kill-or-capture mission, since the U.S. doesn't kill unarmed people trying to surrender. But it was clear from the beginning that whoever was behind those walls had no intention of surrendering, two U.S. officials said.

The helicopters lowered into the compound, dropping the SEALs behind the walls. No shots were fired, but shortly after the team hit the ground, one of the helicopters came crashing down and rolled onto its side for reasons the government has yet to explain. None of the SEALs was injured, however, and the mission continued uninterrupted.

With the CIA and White House monitoring the situation in real time — presumably by live satellite feed or video carried by the SEALs — the team stormed the compound.

Thanks to sophisticated satellite monitoring, U.S. forces knew they'd likely find bin Laden's family on the second and third floors of one of the buildings on the property, officials said. The SEALs secured the rest of the property first, then proceeded to the room where bin Laden was hiding. A firefight ensued, Brennan said.

Ahmed and his brother were killed, officials said. Then, the SEALs killed bin Laden with a bullet just above his left eye, blowing off part his skull, another official said. Using the call sign for his visual identification, one of the soldiers communicated that "Geronimo" had been killed in action, according to a U.S. official.

Bin Laden's body was immediately identifiable, but the U.S. also conducted DNA testing that identified him with near 100 percent certainty, senior administration officials said. Photo analysis by the CIA, confirmation on site by a woman believed to be bin Laden's wife, who was wounded, and matching physical features such as bin Laden's height all helped confirm the identification. At the White House, there was no doubt.

"I think the accomplishment that very brave personnel from the United States government were able to realize yesterday is a defining moment in the war against al-Qaida, the war on terrorism, by decapitating the head of the snake known as al-Qaida," Brennan said.

U.S. forces searched the compound and flew away with documents, hard drives and DVDs that could provide valuable intelligence about al-Qaida, a U.S. official said. The entire operation took about 40 minutes, officials said.

Bin Laden's body was flown to the USS Carl Vinson in the North Arabian sea, a senior defense official said. There, aboard a U.S. warship, officials conducted a traditional Islamic burial ritual. Bin Laden's body was washed and placed in a white sheet. He was placed in a weighted bag that, after religious remarks by a military officer, was slipped into the sea about 2 a.m. EDT Monday.

Said the president, "I think we can all agree this is a good day for America."

Associated Press writers Kimberly Dozier, Eileen Sullivan and Ben Feller in Washington and Kathy Gannon in Islamabad, Pakistan, contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[Homeslice]

:lol

[tommymac]

:lol

Nice :lol:

[Dave]

All I get out of this is torture works and no bomb or robot can replace human beings on the ground. I fucking love that it was marchinko's unit that did the job. Only real question left is who plays obama in the blockbuster movie next september? I'm voting denzel

[Homeslice]

Yep, torture really works....
Mohammed did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

[Trip]

All I get out of this is torture works and no bomb or robot can replace human beings on the ground.

Yet

Technically, some bombs can, but you have to be willing to accept the consequences of that action. We are not a country that will do that anymore though.

[Dave]

Yep, torture really works....

Your nievity is amusing

[Papa_Complex]

All I get out of this is torture works and no bomb or robot can replace human beings on the ground. I fucking love that it was marchinko's unit that did the job. Only real question left is who plays obama in the blockbuster movie next september? I'm voting denzel

I have to agree; torture is extremely effective at getting people to reveal false or severely outdated information. There really is no better way to get that sort of thing.

[tommymac]

Yet

Technically, some bombs can, but you have to be willing to accept the consequences of that action. We are not a country that will do that anymore though.

They are all worried about collateral damage yet in WW II they used incendiaries on tokyo and burned the entire city to the ground, and these nuts are way more extreme than the jappanese were.

[Kaneman]

So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I was one of the only ones watching people gather in the streets to celebrate Bin Laden's death and feeling very sad?

[OneSickPsycho]

Yep, torture really works....

Translation... "I'll tell you everything you need to know now that I know how uncomfortable you'll make me if I don't."

[OneSickPsycho]

So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I was one of the only ones watching people gather in the streets to celebrate Bin Laden's death and feeling very sad?

I didn't have the same level of excitement that was portrayed in the media, on the streets, and across the web...

Kind of a 'meh' moment... it came too late for me to be excited because it opened a lot of old wounds for a lot of people and I don't really think Al Qaeda could be any more disorganized these days...

Definitely a big moment for our military, which I can appreciate... but I think a lot of the excitement was coming from people who were really only out to support their boy in office. I have a feeling that the outpouring of positives from the celebrity and youth subsets of our culture would have looked much different if this was done on Bush's watch.

[Kaneman]

I didn't have the same level of excitement that was portrayed in the media, on the streets, and across the web...

Kind of a 'meh' moment... it came too late for me to be excited because it opened a lot of old wounds for a lot of people and I don't really think Al Qaeda could be any more disorganized these days...

Definitely a big moment for our military, which I can appreciate... but I think a lot of the excitement was coming from people who were really only out to support their boy in office. I have a feeling that the outpouring of positives from the celebrity and youth subsets of our culture would have looked much different if this was done on Bush's watch.

It just seemed like a cross between Idiocracy and Team America World Police...only playing out in real life on live TV. We seem to be so easily herded.

[shmike]

So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I was one of the only ones watching people gather in the streets to celebrate Bin Laden's death and feeling very sad?


Explain your sadness please...

[goof2]

Yet

Technically, some bombs can, but you have to be willing to accept the consequences of that action. We are not a country that will do that anymore though.

I disagree. We take people out with traditional bombs as well as drones all the time. The difference here is the government wanted a body for DNA testing, pictures, and the ability to remove it. A bomb or drone obviously makes a hell of a mess and can make identifying those killed difficult to impossible. Our relationship with Pakistan most likely wouldn't allow our people to be on the ground for hours/days searching for body parts either.

People are skeptical about Bin Laden being dead already. How much more skepticism would there be if no body existed and no DNA testing had been done? If this strike were carried out with a bomb or drone there is a pretty good chance the government would be limited to thinking they may have gotten him. Removing that uncertainty made the risk of sending in the SEALs and helicopter pilots worth it to the administration.

[goof2]

It just seemed like a cross between Idiocracy and Team America World Police...only playing out in real life on live TV. We seem to be so easily herded.

What do you think the "proper" response was?

[tommymac]

I disagree. We take people out with traditional bombs as well as drones all the time. The difference here is the government wanted a body for DNA testing, pictures, and the ability to remove it. A bomb or drone obviously makes a hell of a mess and can make identifying those killed difficult to impossible. Our relationship with Pakistan most likely wouldn't allow our people to be on the ground for hours/days searching for body parts either.

People are skeptical about Bin Laden being dead already. How much more skepticism would there be if no body existed and no DNA testing had been done? If this strike were carried out with a bomb or drone there is a pretty good chance the government would be limited to thinking they may have gotten him. Removing that uncertainty made the risk of sending in the SEALs and helicopter pilots worth it to the administration.

Was reading earlier how the pakistani govt is backpeddaling saying they werent harboring him in their country.

[Trip]

I disagree. We take people out with traditional bombs as well as drones all the time. The difference here is the government wanted a body for DNA testing, pictures, and the ability to remove it. A bomb or drone obviously makes a hell of a mess and can make identifying those killed difficult to impossible. Our relationship with Pakistan most likely wouldn't allow our people to be on the ground for hours/days searching for body parts either.

People are skeptical about Bin Laden being dead already. How much more skepticism would there be if no body existed and no DNA testing had been done? If this strike were carried out with a bomb or drone there is a pretty good chance the government would be limited to thinking they may have gotten him. Removing that uncertainty made the risk of sending in the SEALs and helicopter pilots worth it to the administration.

You don't need DNA testing if you nuke Pakistan/Afghanistan off the map.

[tommymac]

You don't need DNA testing if you nuke Pakistan/Afghanistan off the map.

Remove any doubt :rockwoot:

[Cutty72]

You don't need DNA testing if you nuke Pakistan/Afghanistan off the map.

You know, I said that back in the 90's when everything started the FIRST time. Then we would have our very own glass covered oil fields, and all would be good.

[tommymac]

Now Obama is going ot the trade center on thursday, glad I wont be there. Bet the port authority nazis wont let him on the site since he doesnt have a daypass :lol:

[Porkchop]

It just seemed like a cross between Idiocracy and Team America World Police...only playing out in real life on live TV. We seem to be so easily herded.

Fuck Yeah? :lol

http://www.40kings.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/america_fuck_yeah.jpg

[Trip]

Fuck Yeah? :lol

This is why the Starship Troopers service = citizenship model is a bad idea.

[EpyonXero]

All I get out of this is torture works and no bomb or robot can replace human beings on the ground. I fucking love that it was marchinko's unit that did the job. Only real question left is who plays obama in the blockbuster movie next september? I'm voting denzel

If this was a movie I think Ahmed the Courier would be the real ringleader of Al-Qaida and bin Laden would be in a coma or something. The SEALs bust into the house only to find bin Ladens wives attending him unconcious on his bed. Medical examination and interrogations show that bin Laden has been in a coma for 5 years but papers taken from the house which have operating orders were written in the last month and have what looks like bin Laden's signature... DUN DUN DUN!

[Dave]

If this was a movie I think Ahmed the Courier would be the real ringleader of Al-Qaida and bin Laden would be in a coma or something. The SEALs bust into the house only to find bin Ladens wives attending him unconcious on his bed. Medical examination and interrogations show that bin Laden has been in a coma for 5 years but papers taken from the house which have operating orders were written in the last month and have what looks like bin Laden's signature... DUN DUN DUN!

That's the direct to video sequel. I've little doubt a modern day triumph of the will is days away from principal photography. Just in time to bolster the election efforts

[the chi]

If this was a movie I think Ahmed the Courier would be the real ringleader of Al-Qaida and bin Laden would be in a coma or something. The SEALs bust into the house only to find bin Ladens wives attending him unconcious on his bed. Medical examination and interrogations show that bin Laden has been in a coma for 5 years but papers taken from the house which have operating orders were written in the last month and have what looks like bin Laden's signature... DUN DUN DUN!]

:lol: Wasnt that an episode of NCIS?

I dunno, other than some skepticism, all I feel is grief for the folks killed in 9/11 and those who lost ppl, as well as all the soldiers we've lost. There's no real "woohoo, we got the bastard" feeling. Kind of a "well, it's done now" feeling instead. I too hope that now maybe we can stop this war and focus on getting our country back in shape. We shall see I guess.

[azoomm]

So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I was one of the only ones watching people gather in the streets to celebrate Bin Laden's death and feeling very sad?

Nope. I'm with you.

[smileyman]

This is why the Starship Troopers service = citizenship model is a bad idea.

Interesting. The earned citizenship model was originally a Roman thing. True their empire only lasted about 3000 years but it was one way of recruiting foreign and domestic troops to their cause. Eventually the hope of citizenship from Rome was replaced by their own generals for rewards of a more meaningful manner, those of estates and wealth...

[Homeslice]

This is why the Starship Troopers service = citizenship model is a bad idea.

If service was a requirement, you'd get a wider variety of people in it. Not just the "fuck yeah" types. So I'm not sure I understand the objection.

[Homeslice]

Translation... "I'll tell you everything you need to know now that I know how uncomfortable you'll make me if I don't."

Or I'll tell you anything to make it stop, because you can't prove it's false.

[Trip]

If service was a requirement, you'd get a wider variety of people in it. Not just the "fuck yeah" types. So I'm not sure I understand the objection.

You would have to change the private sector to meet that same requirement or it would fall into the same trap as government programs like NASA. The best and brightest use to want to work for NASA, not anymore. They all go private sector and make shit tons more money there over NASA. The military wouldn't really gain all that much, people would still rather go private sector unless you made special rules for that. Basically America wouldn't be America anymore if we did it and it would still be just as fucked up.

[goof2]

Or I'll tell you anything to make it stop, because you can't prove it's false.

Apparently not in this case. It reads to me like it worked pretty much the way it was supposed to.:shrug:

[Homeslice]

Apparently not in this case. It reads to me like it worked pretty much the way it was supposed to.:shrug:

Where are you reading that? I don't see any proof that he discussed OBL's courier under torture.

[pauldun170]

You would have to change the private sector to meet that same requirement or it would fall into the same trap as government programs like NASA. The best and brightest use to want to work for NASA, not anymore. They all go private sector and make shit tons more money there over NASA. The military wouldn't really gain all that much, people would still rather go private sector unless you made special rules for that. Basically America wouldn't be America anymore if we did it and it would still be just as fucked up.

A friend works over at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
He does well....
He wants out.

I think NASA is still a desirable destination for youngins. It depends on the field.
My friend who works there wants out but his goal was always a university position.

[Trip]

A friend works over at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
He does well....
He wants out.

I think NASA is still a desirable destination for youngins. It depends on the field.
My friend who works there wants out but his goal was always a university position.

I guarantee you he could make a lot more in private industry.

Although, if he wants out of a government position to go into a University position, he isn't in the group I am referring too. They don't have issues with "working." LOL

Just a joke, I don't him.

[pauldun170]

I guarantee you he could make a lot more in private industry.

Although, if he wants out of a government position to go into a University position, he isn't in the group I am referring too. They don't have issues with "working." LOL

Just a joke, I don't him.

He could probably make a killing working in the Oil or Insurance industry but hes already done the wage slave thing.

Oil exploration vs Martian Geochemistry...
Not too many private companies with rovers on mars doing actual research.

[goof2]

Where are you reading that? I don't see any proof that he discussed OBL's courier under torture.

I'm talking about the whole system, not just specific incidences of waterboarding. These people underwent rendition, were transferred to Guantanamo Bay as enemy combatants, and underwent interrogation of both the enhanced and standard variety. As a result interrogators received intelligence that eventually led to Bin Laden's death. All of this was criticized by the current administration.

Would interrogators have gotten that intelligence had these people been treated as common criminals? How about if they had been treated as POWs? Would these detainees have given up the information they did if they hadn't been declared enemy combatants and subjected to rendition, "torture", and years of interrogation, none of which would have been allowed if they were treated as criminals or POWs? Did all that convince them our country was serious or did it have no effect?

We will never know the answers to those questions, though I of course have my own opinions on the matter. What we do know is the highly criticized system that was put in place generated part of the intelligence necessary to kill Bin Laden.

[Homeslice]

Fair enough.......but you say "torture" in quotes.........I am just curious what would qualify as torture in your opinion? If waterboarding, bodyslams, and being chained in stress positions buck-naked in near-freezing temperatures, don't qualify as torture, what does?

By all the comments I read on message boards, I get the impression that most Americans seem to think that it isn't torture unless it leaves a visible mark. I disagree, and several people in power do as well.

[goof2]

Fair enough.......but you say "torture" in quotes.........I am just curious what would qualify as torture in your opinion? If waterboarding, bodyslams, and being chained in stress positions buck-naked in near-freezing temperatures, don't qualify as torture, what does?

By all the comments I read on message boards, I get the impression that most Americans seem to think that it isn't torture unless it leaves a visible mark. I disagree, and several people in power do as well.

I put torture in quotes because I'm really not sure if it was or wasn't in reference to waterboarding. I wouldn't define stress positions, nakedness, or cold conditions as torture. I don't believe "bodyslams" (conjuring up images of pro wrestling) were ever approved, though slapping and shaking were. I can't recall exactly but pushing someone in to a wall may have been used. Unless what was done in those cases was vastly more violent than what I imagine I wouldn't define that as torture either.

The quotes aren't meant to convey sarcasm, they are simply to show that I accept someone using the word and I will use it to advance the discussion without agreeing to it. There are also several people who have been in power who don't believe it was torture. Which people in power are right?

[Homeslice]

I put torture in quotes because I'm really not sure if it was or wasn't in reference to waterboarding. I wouldn't define stress positions, nakedness, or cold conditions as torture. I don't believe "bodyslams" (conjuring up images of pro wrestling) were ever approved, though slapping and shaking were. I can't recall exactly but pushing someone in to a wall may have been used. Unless what was done in those cases was vastly more violent than what I imagine I wouldn't define that as torture either.


I know of 1 person who died as a result of bodyslams & chest blows, and another who died from exposure.

You might not think a stress position is torture, but what if it lasts several hours? And what if it is combined at the same time, with cold, nakedness, and/or loud music?

[goof2]

I know of 1 person who died as a result of bodyslams & chest blows, and another who died from exposure.

You might not think a stress position is torture, but what if it lasts several hours? And what if it is combined at the same time, with cold, nakedness, and/or loud music?

That is fine and all but really what is the difference? We can get in to a discussion of what each of us choose to call what was done if you like but it doesn't change a thing.

[caveman]

R.I.P Osama Bin Laden - World Hide And Go Seek Champion (2001 - 2011)

REALLY??!!!? You want that bastard to have peace? I hope his fucking retarded ass rots an eternity plus two in hell. May he suffer the burning lashes of Lucifer till his soul dissipates to nothing, and then is forgotten by all others he could have possibly touched in one way or another

[EpyonXero]

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/289751356.jpg

[derf]

REALLY??!!!? You want that bastard to have peace? I hope his fucking retarded ass rots an eternity plus two in hell. May he suffer the burning lashes of Lucifer till his soul dissipates to nothing, and then is forgotten by all others he could have possibly touched in one way or another

Yeh really. I think you are reading in to stuff a little too deep.

[njchopper87]

Obligatory fuck yeah, Osama is dead!

[Razor]

Torture doesn't work to get accurate, actionable intelligence?? whatever... Jack Bauer tortured bitches at least once every episode and always got actionable intel that led him to save the hour (at least more times than not)... I say we make torture part of our everyday lives; want a girl or guys number, bounce 'em off of walls for a few minutes; want that #3 biggie sized, water board them; some asshole took the parking spot you had been patiently waiting on, strip 'em down and bend them over their car door backwards; want that new bike, subject the dumbass salesman to Hansen on repeat for a couple hours (oh the horror)... but maybe this is just the lack of sleep for the past 38hours talkin...

[Papa_Complex]

Torture doesn't work to get accurate, actionable intelligence?? whatever... Jack Bauer tortured bitches at least once every episode and always got actionable intel that led him to save the hour (at least more times than not)... I say we make torture part of our everyday lives; want a girl or guys number, bounce 'em off of walls for a few minutes; want that #3 biggie sized, water board them; some asshole took the parking spot you had been patiently waiting on, strip 'em down and bend them over their car door backwards; want that new bike, subject the dumbass salesman to Hansen on repeat for a couple hours (oh the horror)... but maybe this is just the lack of sleep for the past 38hours talkin...

Yeah, but he's Canadian. It doesn't work for Americans.

[Particle Man]

REALLY??!!!? You want that bastard to have peace? I hope his fucking retarded ass rots an eternity plus two in hell. May he suffer the burning lashes of Lucifer till his soul dissipates to nothing, and then is forgotten by all others he could have possibly touched in one way or another
RIP = Rot In Pieces

[derf]

RIP = Rot In Pieces

Doesnt matter what it means, this is a forum, that was part of a joke, and you are a nazi so I win

[Tmall]

Doesnt matter what it means, this is a forum, that was part of a joke, and you are a nazi so I win

GODWINNED! /thread

[tommymac]

Doesnt matter what it means, this is a forum, that was part of a joke, and you are a nazi so I win

I thought the jews didnt fare too well agianst the nazis LOL

[azoomm]

RIP = Rot In Pieces

Rot in Pork...

Especially coming from a Jew - that shit is funny :wink:

[Trip]

Bin Laden did dethrone Anne Frank as the new Hide and Seek world record holder.

[tommymac]

Bin Laden did dethrone Anne Frank as the new Hide and Seek world record holder.

that he did. ;)

[EpyonXero]

Pepsi AND Coke??

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-03/bin-laden-aides-bought-big-orders-of-pepsi-coke-grocer-says.html

Bin Laden Aides Are Said to Have Bought Bulk Orders of Pepsi, Coke
By Anwar Shakir - May 4, 2011 The two polite Pakistanis who helped Osama bin Laden hide in the shadow of their country’s army bought bulk food orders, chose major brands and equally favored Pepsi and Coke, neighbors and a local shopkeeper said.

The men called themselves Akbar and Rashid Khan and they owned the fortified home where U.S. commandos killed bin Laden in an early morning raid May 2. They did the daily shopping in the Pashtu-language accents of Waziristan, a region on the Afghan border, said grocer Anjum Qaisar, 27, who works 150 meters from the compound. Bin Laden’s men “never came by foot, they always drove a Pajero or a little Suzuki van, and they bought enough food for 10 people,” Qaisar said in an interview yesterday.

“I was curious about why they bought so much food, but I did not want to be rude by asking” such a personal question, Qaisar said. The Khans told neighbors they had fled a violent tribal feud in Waziristan to seek a calmer life in Abbottabad, an army headquarters town 50 kilometers (30 miles) from the capital, Islamabad.

A day after the gun battle that revealed bin Laden’s presence, his former neighbors expressed astonishment that the al-Qaeda leader had hidden among them, just a mile from the gate of the Pakistan Military Academy, the country’s equivalent of West Point in the U.S. Eight days before U.S. helicopters swooped in, Pakistan’s army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani visited the academy, telling its cadets the “Pakistan army is fully aware of internal and external threats to the country,” an army statement said last week.

Support Network
The U.S. will investigate whether bin Laden’s support network included Pakistani officials, White House counter- terrorism adviser John Brennan said yesterday on NBC’s Today show. Abbottabad’s district government chief, Zahir ul-Islam, said in an interview that local officials would not comment on that issue or on the fate of several women and children from the house that local residents said were taken to a hospital and then detained by authorities.

In Bilal Town, a neighborhood of new, walled villas interspersed with farm plots where bin Laden’s 1.5-acre compound was the biggest, neighbors yesterday offered stories of the al- Qaeda leader’s household.

“When we played cricket in the field near the house, if the ball flew over their wall and we went to the gate to ask for it, the guards would be angry,” said Tariq Khan, 14, a schoolboy. “They would give us up to 100 rupees ($1.20) to buy a new one,” rather than allow the ball to be retrieved, he said. That’s a large sum as balls cost only 20 to 30 rupees, Khan said.

‘Best Brands’
With Pakistani troops and police guarding the streets, Qaisar was one of few merchants open for business yesterday.

Bin Laden’s protectors “always bought the best brands -- Nestle milk, the good-quality soaps and shampoos,” Qaisar said. “They always paid cash, never asked for credit.” They purchased meat from a butcher who was closed yesterday, he said.

Rashid and Akbar owned the compound, said Kamar Khan, the police official who sealed the house yesterday. He would not say whether the Khans’ bodies had been found inside after the U.S. raid. The White House says U.S. troops killed two al-Qaeda couriers, along with bin Laden and his son.

U.S. officials in Washington say a courier, known by the pseudonym Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, was the man the CIA tracked to find bin Laden’s hideout, the Associated Press reported.

Tora Bora
Michael Scheuer, the CIA veteran who led the agency’s hunt for bin Laden in the 1990s, said it would be a surprise to find that the al-Qaeda leader, a Saudi, had relied on foreigners like the Khans for his innermost security. “Historically, anyone that close to him almost always was an Arab rather than a Pakistani or an Afghan,” Scheuer said in a May 2 phone interview from Washington.

Bin Laden escaped U.S. surveillance about 90 days after the September 11 attacks in 2001, as troops closed in on him in the Tora Bora mountains on Afghanistan’s border with Pakistan. The CIA found evidence of him last August in Abbottabad, a military town in the Himalayan foothills that is favored by Pakistani army retirees and named for its founder, a 19th-century British major, James Abbott.

Soviet Occupation
The U.S. commando team collected an “impressive amount” of materials from the compound, including computers and other electronics, CIA Director Leon Panetta told Time magazine.

Neighbors in Bilal Town knew that Arabic-speaking women “lived inside that house because our children heard them through the gate one day and told us,” said Altaf Khan, 35, whose house is on the same street.

Still, at least some of bin Laden’s guards were ethnic Pashtuns, the group whom bin Laden befriended by joining their war against Soviet occupation in Afghanistan in the 1980s, said Amin Akbar, the nearest neighbor to the al-Qaeda house.

“They had very powerful security lights at night,” Akbar said. “When I saw them on one day last month, I knocked on the gate to tell them so they could turn them off, because our electricity is so expensive.”

A Pakistani opened the door “and became very angry with me,” he said. “He asked me ‘Who told you to come here?’”

Umar Nassir, a teenage student, said neighbors are concerned that bin Laden’s refuge in Abbottabad may bring more trouble. “The schools in the city have been closed for three days,” he said. “We worry that al-Qaeda will come back to attack in our town and take revenge for Osama’s death.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Anwar Shakir in Abbottabad, Pakistan at ashakir1@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Peter Hirschberg at phirschberg@bloomberg.net

[Particle Man]

Pepsi AND Coke??
I heard that on the news this morning and :lol:'d

[Papa_Complex]

No Dr. Pepper? Damned communist.

[Apoc]

No Dr. Pepper? Damned communist.

but Dr. Pepper is gross.

[Papa_Complex]

but Dr. Pepper is gross.

Commie. Bet that you don't like root beer pop-sickles either.

[derf]

I only use the nazis when it becomes convenient to me.

Also, notice the articles editor is a 'burg? That means he's one of us!

[Apoc]

Commie. Bet that you don't like root beer pop-sickles either.


You crazy, man. Root beer popsicles are the bomb-diggity!

[Kaneman]

This has got to be one of the best distractions pulled off in recent memory.

[Papa_Complex]

Yes, much better than "threat level increased", isn't it?

[shmike]

This has got to be one of the best distractions pulled off in recent memory.

From what, the birth certificate issue?

[Kaneman]

From what, the birth certificate issue?

You name it.

[defector]

Fuel prices. Haven't heard a thing about them for almost a week, yet they still climb almost daily.

[shmike]

Fuel prices. Haven't heard a thing about them for almost a week, yet they still climb almost daily.


That's because Obama isn't an "oil man".

Last time prices spiked like this, it was all Bush's fault.

[defector]

That's because Obama isn't an "oil man".

Last time prices spiked like this, it was all Bush's fault.

True enough. I just filled up today, so I noticed.

[Particle Man]

True enough. I just filled up today, so I noticed.

Yeah. 13 bucks to fill the freaking SV

[tommymac]

Fuel prices. Haven't heard a thing about them for almost a week, yet they still climb almost daily.

oil. went down a bunch today too, to bad gas wont do the same

[Papa_Complex]

Yeah. 13 bucks to fill the freaking SV

$16.00 for me, for the ER. Bloody ridiculous.

[Apoc]

Yeah. 13 bucks to fill the freaking SV

I'll be filling a full size dodge tomorrow. At 5.05$/USG, im not overly looking forward to it. :lol:

[Captain Morgan]

With gas prices being what they are, delivering pizzas is becoming less and less profitable. Not sure I'll be keeping the second job long enough to pay the bike off by the end of summer if prices keep going up.

[dReWpY]

took 19.00 to fill up the buell the other day

[goof2]

oil. went down a bunch today too, to bad gas wont do the same

It won't go down today and tomorrow isn't looking too good either, but if oil stays down you will see a decline in price at the pump within the next couple of weeks.

[derf]

I'll be filling a full size dodge tomorrow. At 5.05$/USG, im not overly looking forward to it. :lol:

Oh damn! Last time I filled my trck gas was a hair over $3.50/gal. It helps that I live 2 miles from work and ride my bike when its nice. I still have 1/2 a tank left too

[Dave]

cost 40 to fill the lebaron today

[Papa_Complex]

Michael Moore needs to shut the fuck up.

[tommymac]

It won't go down today and tomorrow isn't looking too good either, but if oil stays down you will see a decline in price at the pump within the next couple of weeks.

I am not optimistic, another report will come out that demands up or surplus is down and it will go right back up.

[defector]

I am not optimistic, another report will come out that demands up or surplus is down and it will go right back up.

Just saw that today that demand hs been going down for the last 30 days.

[tommymac]

Just saw that today that demand hs been going down for the last 30 days.

probably becuse prices are going up people are driving less.

[defector]

probably becuse prices are going up people are driving less.

That just means that as soon as the prices drop a tiny bit, everybody will go and fuel up (even the ones who haven't been due to cost). Instant spike in demand = equal spike in price.
Back on the gerbil wheel. :lol:

[Papa_Complex]

That just means that as soon as the prices drop a tiny bit, everybody will go and fuel up (even the ones who haven't been due to cost). Instant spike in demand = equal spike in price.
Back on the gerbil wheel. :lol:

True, but they won't necessarily do any discretionary travel. That means total sales will still be down, as they were in 2009.

Not that the oil companies really care though. From their point of view they're making more profit, on less product.

[Kaneman]

Why do events like this always bring out the dumbest motherfuckers? My GOD these emails and Facebook posts. Somewhere our alien creator/overlords are shaking their heads and filling with sadness.

Why do events like this always bring out the dumbest motherfuckers? My GOD these Facebook posts and emails I'm seeing. Somewhere our Alien Overload/Creators are out there shaking their heads and filling with sadness.

[shmike]

Why do events like this always bring out the dumbest motherfuckers? My GOD these emails and Facebook posts. Somewhere our alien creator/overlords are shaking their heads and filling with sadness.

Why do events like this always bring out the dumbest motherfuckers? My GOD these Facebook posts and emails I'm seeing. Somewhere our Alien Overload/Creators are out there shaking their heads and filling with sadness.

You can say that again!

[Kaneman]

You can say that again!

Must've been a glitch in my alien programming. :lol:

[pauldun170]

“With so much misinformation being fed into such an essential public debate as this one, I asked the Director of Central Intelligence, Leon Panetta, for the facts. And I received the following information:

“The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. We did not first learn from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the real name of bin Laden’s courier, or his alias, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the man who ultimately enabled us to find bin Laden. The first mention of the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, as well as a description of him as an important member of Al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country. The United States did not conduct this detainee’s interrogation, nor did we render him to that country for the purpose of interrogation. We did not learn Abu Ahmed’s real name or alias as a result of waterboarding or any ‘enhanced interrogation technique’ used on a detainee in U.S. custody. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts, or an accurate description of his role in Al-Qaeda.

“In fact, not only did the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden’s courier, Abu Ahmed; it actually produced false and misleading information. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married, and ceased his role as an Al-Qaeda facilitator — which was not true, as we now know. All we learned about Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti through the use of waterboarding and other ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ against Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the confirmation of the already known fact that the courier existed and used an alias.

“I have sought further information from the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and they confirm for me that, in fact, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in Al-Qaeda and his true relationship to Osama bin Laden — was obtained through standard, non-coercive means, not through any ‘enhanced interrogation technique.’

“In short, it was not torture or cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama bin Laden. I hope former Attorney General Mukasey will correct his misstatement. It’s important that he do so because we are again engaged in this important debate, with much at stake for America’s security and reputation. Each side should make its own case, but do so without making up its own facts.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/john-mccain-to-bush-apologists-stop-lying-about-bin-laden-and-torture/2011/03/03/AF10AnzG_blog.html

[Homeslice]

Pretty much ownage right there. Not surprising for the Attorney General to make up facts to protect his crap lawyers who came up with the enhanced interrogation standards. The whole DOJ was a complete joke during the Bush Admin (and probably still is)

[askmrjesus]

Pretty much ownage right there. Not surprising for the Attorney General to make up facts to protect his crap lawyers who came up with the enhanced interrogation standards. The whole DOJ was a complete joke during the Bush Admin (and probably still is)

If water-boarding were truly effective, you probably wouldn't have to do it 183 times. :lol:

We should go back to lead-filled rubber hoses. You get the same crap results in less time, and there's a lot less mopping involved.

JC

[Adeptus_Minor]

We should go back to lead-filled rubber hoses. You get the same crap results in less time, and there's a lot less mopping involved.

JC

Mopping creates jobs!

:lol:

[Dave]

Pretty much ownage right there. Not surprising for the Attorney General to make up facts to protect his crap lawyers who came up with the enhanced interrogation standards. The whole DOJ was a complete joke during the Bush Admin (and probably still is)

all that said is OUR techniques were ineffective

[goof2]

all that said is OUR techniques were ineffective

True, he didn't say what techniques were used in "another country".

Take it for what it is worth but I have also read that waterboarding and the rest weren't used, and were never intended to be used, to gain new information. The enhanced techniques were used while asking the detainee questions we already knew the answers to as a way to see when the detainee reached the proper "mindset" to answer questions truthfully.

As I said, take it for what it is worth, but that does make sense to me. As most who object to the enhanced interrogation techniques have pointed out it is well recognized that people would lie to make that treatment stop. This would be a way to demonstrate to the detainees that only the truth would make it stop. It may also explain why KSM was waterboarded as many times as he was. It took that much for him to start telling the truth.

I'm not saying this is what happened, only that it sounds somewhat plausible.

[Dave]

True, he didn't say what techniques were used in "another country".

Take it for what it is worth but I have also read that waterboarding and the rest weren't used, and were never intended to be used, to gain new information. The enhanced techniques were used while asking the detainee questions we already knew the answers to as a way to see when the detainee reached the proper "mindset" to answer questions truthfully.

As I said, take it for what it is worth, but that does make sense to me. As most who object to the enhanced interrogation techniques have pointed out it is well recognized that people would lie to make that treatment stop. This would be a way to demonstrate to the detainees that only the truth would make it stop. It may also explain why KSM was waterboarded as many times as he was. It took that much for him to start telling the truth.

I'm not saying this is what happened, only that it sounds somewhat plausible.

Its also entirely likely that such cross refrencing is worthless since the detainees knew two things about the united states:

We are a nation of blubbering vaginas
We're gonna bitch out on any torture.

[101lifts2]

took 19.00 to fill up the buell the other day

Well that's because you have to fill up the entire frame. :lol

[Captain Morgan]

all that said is OUR techniques were ineffective

Anybody ever watch "Unthinkable"?

[Papa_Complex]

all that said is OUR techniques were ineffective

Actually what it says, is that the AG lied about where information came from, in order to defend his own actions.

[Dave]

Actually what it says, is that the AG lied about where information came from, in order to defend his own actions.

Since when is that news? :lol:

[Papa_Complex]

Since when is that news? :lol:

Given your response, it appeared to be news to you.

[Homeslice]

Its also entirely likely that such cross refrencing is worthless since the detainees knew two things about the united states:

We are a nation of blubbering vaginas
We're gonna bitch out on any torture.

If you call honoring your word blubbering

Like the Geneva Convention...

Which says that even unlawful combatants are to be treated humanely.

Now, I'm no angel......I'd be tempted to beat up a prisoner in certain circumstances......but maybe that's why it's good that I'm not a jailor, intelligence agent, politician, or DOJ lawyer. Those who are, are responsible for their actions.

[OneSickPsycho]

I dunno... waterboarding just doesn't seem like much in the way of torture to me...

[Homeslice]

I dunno... waterboarding just doesn't seem like much in the way of torture to me...

Well, in that case maybe we shouldn't have cited it as one of our charges against Japanese generals

[tommymac]

I dunno... waterboarding just doesn't seem like much in the way of torture to me...

I guess theyre beyond use of car batteries or fingernail removal now.

[Papa_Complex]

I dunno... waterboarding just doesn't seem like much in the way of torture to me...

Try it sometime. I'm sure we could arrange for a group of strangers to kidnap you off the street, in a plain white van, and subject you to 'not much in the way of torture' for a few days.

[OneSickPsycho]

Well, in that case maybe we shouldn't have cited it as one of our charges against Japanese generals

Do as I say...

Try it sometime. I'm sure we could arrange for a group of strangers to kidnap you off the street, in a plain white van, and subject you to 'not much in the way of torture' for a few days.

Well, I'm sure it isn't pleasant, but that's sorta the point... I mean if people demonstrate it while the protesting on college campuses and we subject our own operatives to it as a part of their training, is it really bad enough to qualify as torture?

[Papa_Complex]

Well, I'm sure it isn't pleasant, but that's sorta the point... I mean if people demonstrate it while the protesting on college campuses and we subject our own operatives to it as a part of their training, is it really bad enough to qualify as torture?

That was my point about abducting you in a white van, first. Having people you trust do it isn't the same thing as having some shadowy enemy do it. It is torture, pure and simple.

[OneSickPsycho]

That was my point about abducting you in a white van, first. Having people you trust do it isn't the same thing as having some shadowy enemy do it. It is torture, pure and simple.

I suppose that's why they subject operatives to beatings, disfigurement, electrocution, etc as part of their training... and that's why you see all those kids doing that shit when they are protesting... wait...

Sure, it's probably pretty fucking horrible to experience... but to me, it's not even close to the level:

...any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions. --UN Convention Against Torture[1]

Severe pain or suffering... means something to everyone, but not necessarily the same thing to everyone... I wouldn't consider waterboard to be severe.

[askmrjesus]

Well, I'm sure it isn't pleasant, but that's sorta the point... I mean if people demonstrate it while the protesting on college campuses and we subject our own operatives to it as a part of their training, is it really bad enough to qualify as torture?

Look at it this way, waterboarding has been employed by the Gestapo, the Kempeitai (basically the Gestapo of the Japanese army during WWII), the Spanish Inquisition (whom nobody ever expects) and the Khmer Rouge.

What do all those organizations have in common?

I'll give you a hint; it's not their delicious pies and cakes.

JC

[Papa_Complex]

I suppose that's why they subject operatives to beatings, disfigurement, electrocution, etc as part of their training... and that's why you see all those kids doing that shit when they are protesting... wait...

Sure, it's probably pretty fucking horrible to experience... but to me, it's not even close to the level:

...any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions. --UN Convention Against Torture[1]

Severe pain or suffering... means something to everyone, but not necessarily the same thing to everyone... I wouldn't consider waterboard to be severe.

They feel the need to inure people to torture so they subject them to a form that leaves no lasting physical injury, when performed under carefully controlled conditions. Ironically it also has little chance of causing lasting PSYCHOLOGICAL injury, because it's being performed by 'friendlies.'

Again, I suggest that you partake of it while in the 'care' of people, whom you don't know.

[OneSickPsycho]

Look at it this way, waterboarding has been employed by the Gestapo, the Kempeitai (basically the Gestapo of the Japanese army during WWII), the Spanish Inquisition (whom nobody ever expects) and the Khmer Rouge.

What do all those organizations have in common?

I'll give you a hint; it's not their delicious pies and cakes.

JC

You mean they don't have delicious pies and cakes?

[askmrjesus]

Severe pain or suffering... means something to everyone, but not necessarily the same thing to everyone... I wouldn't consider waterboard to be severe.

So, you'd be cool with me waterbording your mom, right?

You mean they don't have delicious pies and cakes?

Well, the Gestapo probably had a couple of guys that made a mean Strudel, but the others, not so much.

JC

[OneSickPsycho]

They feel the need to inure people to torture so they subject them to a form that leaves no lasting physical injury, when performed under carefully controlled conditions. Ironically it also has little chance of causing lasting PSYCHOLOGICAL injury, because it's being performed by 'friendlies.'

Again, I suggest that you partake of it while in the 'care' of people, whom you don't know.

And the form that's used for interrogation does leave lasting physical injury?

For the psychological standpoint, that's pretty subjective... 1) the guys they waterboarded were trained to resist such things, mitigating the psychological impacts long term 2) they were pretty fucked in the head to begin with... like comparing walking a normal, well adjusted person onto a gruesome battlefield... they'd obviously have long term psychological damage, but put Charles Manson out there and watch him finger paint with entrails. Poor comparison to begin with.

So, you'd be cool with me waterbording your mom, right?



Well, the Gestapo probably had a couple of guys that made a mean Strudel, but the others, not so much.

JC

No, I wouldn't be cool with you waterboarding my mom. I also wouldn't be cool with you shooting my mom in the face, but if you caught one of these guys during the raid on Bin Laden's compound... no biggie.

Again, you guys are making terrible comparisons... It's not like they waterboarded hundreds of random people... They did it to guys who were trained specifically to resist that sort of thing, are fucked in the head to begin with, etc...

[Homeslice]

People make such a big deal out of "lasting physical injury", like as if that's the definition of torture.

I could whip out a knife and give myself a permanent scar, and it wouldn't be all that painful. I'd much rather do that than be waterboarded, or hung from the ceiling in the cold for 18 hours.

[askmrjesus]

No, I wouldn't be cool with you waterboarding my mom. I also wouldn't be cool with you shooting my mom in the face, but if you caught one of these guys during the raid on Bin Laden's compound... no biggie.

Again, you guys are making terrible comparisons... It's not like they waterboarded hundreds of random people... They did it to guys who were trained specifically to resist that sort of thing, are fucked in the head to begin with, etc...

So why not just quit pussy footing around and say it; Torture is ok by you, as long as it's only done to assholes we don't like.

JC

[Papa_Complex]

And the form that's used for interrogation does leave lasting physical injury?

For the psychological standpoint, that's pretty subjective... 1) the guys they waterboarded were trained to resist such things, mitigating the psychological impacts long term 2) they were pretty fucked in the head to begin with... like comparing walking a normal, well adjusted person onto a gruesome battlefield... they'd obviously have long term psychological damage, but put Charles Manson out there and watch him finger paint with entrails. Poor comparison to begin with.

OK, so now we know that you're OK with treating a "fucked in the head" human being, in a way you would never consider treating a dog. Being 'trained' to resist torture doesn't make something not torture. When you're trying to obtain a psychological response, in this case capitulation and the release of information, not physically messing up your captive is a plus. That's a feature, not a bug.

It also doesn't happen to, you know, work.

[OneSickPsycho]

So why not just quit pussy footing around and say it; Torture is ok by you, as long as it's only done to assholes we don't like.

JC

Missing the point... It's not about people I don't like... It's about adjusting the technique to account for the particular person's makeup...

OK, so now we know that you're OK with treating a "fucked in the head" human being, in a way you would never consider treating a dog. Being 'trained' to resist torture doesn't make something not torture. When you're trying to obtain a psychological response, in this case capitulation and the release of information, not physically messing up your captive is a plus. That's a feature, not a bug.

It also doesn't happen to, you know, work.


See, I think it does make something torture or not... Playing heavy metal at high volumes and sleep depravation is considered torture by some... Others, it's a good weekend. There's a lot of grey area here, but again IMHO, waterboarding is not torture.

[Papa_Complex]

Missing the point... It's not about people I don't like... It's about adjusting the technique to account for the particular person's makeup...

See, I think it does make something torture or not... Playing heavy metal at high volumes and sleep depravation is considered torture by some... Others, it's a good weekend. There's a lot of grey area here, but again IMHO, waterboarding is not torture.

Then, as AMJ stated, you need to look at how many people have been charged with war crimes for doing precisely that. You're wrong.

[askmrjesus]

Missing the point... It's not about people I don't like... It's about adjusting the technique to account for the particular person's makeup...

That makes no sense at all. If someone is trained to resist waterboarding, why do it to them? Seems like a waste of time to me.

JC

[tommymac]

So why not just quit pussy footing around and say it; Torture is ok by you, as long as it's only done to assholes we don't like.

JC

That can work :lol:

[Razor]

Pretty much ownage right there. Not surprising for the Attorney General to make up facts to protect his crap lawyers who came up with the enhanced interrogation standards. The whole DOJ was a complete joke during the Bush Admin (and probably still is)

Not that I believe anything that comes out of Washington, but do you actually think that the head of the CIA wouldn't lie to to further his/the president's/big oil/whomever-he-needed-at-the-time's aggenda? The CIA has so many un-truths floating at one time that they probably dont even know what the truth is. Not saying the AG isn't lying to protect someone, just saying that I dont think he was owned because you heard it from the Director of the CIA... just saying...

[pauldun170]

OBAMA ACCUSED OF POLITICIZING KILLING OF BIN LADEN BY KILLING BIN LADEN

WASHINGTON D.C. (SatireWire.com) — Republicans today accused President Obama of needlessly politicizing Osama bin Laden’s death by intentionally being the President at the time of Osama bin Laden’s death.

Arguing that party affiliation doesn't matter, Fox News’ put bin Laden’s death during the Bush presidency.

“The President is using the war on terror as a political tool,” said Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, (R-KY). “He knows full well the American people will give him credit for killing bin Laden, and yet, despite the obvious political gain, he did it anyway.”

McConnell went on to insist the President was well aware that he was the President and even admitted as much during a late Sunday meeting during which Obama advised Republican leaders of the imminent mission.

“The President told us we were going to kill bin Laden and a hush fell over the room,” McConnell recalled. “We all just looked at each other in disbelief. Then I remember, very pointedly, saying, “But… but if we do it now, you’re the President,” to which the President responded, “I know.”

In the “spirit of bipartisanship,” Republicans then asked Obama if they too could authorize the killing, but were refused.

Obama himself has taken no personal credit for the attack, which Fox News said justifies its network’s coverage of the mission; specifically, that bin Laden died on May 1, 2007 — during the Bush presidency.

Meanwhile, Fox anchor Brit Hume called it a “very strange coincidence” that the President ordered bin Laden to be killed only a few days after the President released his official birth certificate. “The President announces to the world, ‘Hey I’m definitely the President’ just before he authorizes this?” said Hume. “Sounds to me like he wanted us to know he was President. Why else would he do it?”

Democrats defended the President, emphasizing that he achieved what President George Bush, in eight years, was unable to do. But Sen. Richard Shelby, (R-AL), said the previous administration’s failures were what led to the al Qaeda leader’s death.

“It’s like when you’re trying to unscrew the top off the new jelly jar,” Shelby explained. “We worked and worked on that thing for eight years, so when we passed it to Obama, it was probably already loose.”

At a midday press conference Monday, House Speaker John Boehner, (R-OH), summed up the GOP position.

“The truth is, party affiliation does not matter,” said Boehner. “I mean, let’s say a Republican were in charge. In that case, we’d be saying the Republicans killed Osama bin Laden. Let me just repeat that: the Republicans killed Osama bin Laden.”

http://www.satirewire.com/content1/?p=2840

[pauldun170]

Obi-Wan Kenobi Is Dead, Vader Says

http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html

[shmike]

“It’s like when you’re trying to unscrew the top off the new jelly jar,” Shelby explained. “We worked and worked on that thing for eight years, so when we passed it to Obama, it was probably already loose.”



:lol

[OneSickPsycho]

OBAMA ACCUSED OF POLITICIZING KILLING OF BIN LADEN BY KILLING BIN LADEN
[/url]

:lol:

[EpyonXero]

Obi-Wan Kenobi Is Dead, Vader Says

http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html

Well done

[Homeslice]

OBAMA ACCUSED OF POLITICIZING KILLING OF BIN LADEN BY KILLING BIN LADEN

WASHINGTON D.C. (SatireWire.com) — Republicans today accused President Obama of needlessly politicizing Osama bin Laden’s death by intentionally being the President at the time of Osama bin Laden’s death.


Wouldn't doubt some people actually feel that way....






....and they'd probably be white, male, & located in flyover country

[RedRider2k2]

Long, but a very good read.

The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden... Is Screwed (http://www.esquire.com/print-this/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313?page=all)

[Trip]

Long, but a very good read.

The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden... Is Screwed (http://www.esquire.com/print-this/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313?page=all)

20 years is 20 years, go back in for 4 more years... You aren't special because you shot Bin Laden. Every service person is expected to give the same time frame to get those benefits...

[fatbuckRTO]

20 years is 20 years, go back in for 4 more years... You aren't special because you shot Bin Laden. Every service person is expected to give the same time frame to get those benefits...

This.

I will add, if he wasn't aware of his medical benefits getting out, he had no one to blame but himself. I had so many people telling me, or trying to tell me, about my benefits that I got sick of hearing about it.

There was a MASSIVE team effort involved in finding Bin Laden. "The Shooter" was just the last link in a very long chain. Props for your distinguished service. Fuck you very much for thinking you're owed more than, say, the victors of the COP Keating defense.

[CasterTroy]

There was a MASSIVE team effort involved in finding Bin Laden. "The Shooter" was just the last link in a very long chain. Props for your distinguished service. Fuck you very much for thinking you're owed more than, say, the victors of the COP Keating defense.

I hear ya! And I mean no disrespect, as I don't HAVE any experience in the armed forces of any kind, so my opinion means very little, and I know that. But I would think that being the "tool" that finally completed a decade long search for the MOST wanted man in the world, would be one hellova mind-fuck.

Had they just been told this was just a target that had to be eliminated, then it would have been a day like any other day (in their world) but to assign the pressure of who it was?!?!?

[RedRider2k2]

It seems more like the author is the one really pushing the whole "Shit out of luck" angle. If the shooter really did get out because he wanted to be with his family and not end up in a body bag then I can't really fault him for that.

[Trip]

It seems more like the author is the one really pushing the whole "Shit out of luck" angle. If the shooter really did get out because he wanted to be with his family and not end up in a body bag then I can't really fault him for that.

I don't either, more power to him, I feel bad he is in that position, but he chose that life.

[Homeslice]

And the other thing is, people in Special Ops receive certain "intangibles" including camradere and bragging rights that other jobs don't get. I'm quite sure that many of them would do it even for only half the pay.

[goof2]

I don't either, more power to him, I feel bad he is in that position, but he chose that life.

He would have had to not only chose once, but multiple times to reach Seal Team 6. It was also not just making those choices, but actively pursuing that life throughout his entire career to reach that point. He also had other options besides carrying a gun, the story itself says he could have stayed in the Navy in a support role, rather than as a shooter, to fulfill his 20 but he chose not to. I'm not diminishing or taking away anything he has done, but if my math is correct this guy is in his mid 30s. Is the government expected to give him a comfortable retirement for the next 40+ years?

Everything I have read is those who are in the Seals, particularly those in Team 6, are generally very intelligent. They also tend to have Bachelors and Masters degrees already. If they want to get more education, if they took advantage of the GI Bill, they can have at least a portion of that subsidized too.

The article presents the premise that corporations should be actively pursuing this type of person but aren't. I know of some companies that do look for people like this specifically. There are also headhunter organizations that specialize in dealing with former Officers and NCOs. Before he retired my father used to work with them to fill vacancies since he was much more likely to get someone smart who could be counted on rather than the typical Gen X or Y person who requires a ton of attention, direction, and reassurance.

I respect this guy and what he has done. I also think the author is using his story to try and sell a greater message that may not necessarily be applicable to this guy.