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Captain Morgan
07-17-2008, 01:27 PM
Just waiting for Al Gore to come to this conclusion: If climate change (i.e. global warming) is causing ice to melt in Alaska, the same thing must be happening on Mars, and WE'RE to blame.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20080717/sc_space/howmarsandalaskaarealike

Little did Bucknell University geology professors Craig Kochel and Jeffrey Trop know, as they were working in Alaska, that they would soon predict one of the most important planetary observations ever made.

The pair was in Alaska for an eight-day trip in July 2006, studying geological features and the processes that create them. As they studied photographs taken of the surrounding area, some features caught Kochel's eye. He thought they were strangely familiar, and then realized they reminded him of images he'd seen when working on the Viking missions to Mars in the 1970s.


Kochel and Trop trekked to where the shots were taken overlooking a glacier. Spotting triangle-shaped landforms called "fans" sealed the deal: They looked strikingly similar to photographs taken of features on Mars.


Mystery solved


Although geologists can usually tell what shapes the landscape around us, it was a mystery what formed the Mars-like features found in Alaska.


The conditions on Mars are quite different than anything experienced on Earth. For example, Mars is much colder than even the Arctic — the average martian temperature is -81 degrees F (-63 degrees C) — and the planet's atmospheric pressure is lower than Earth's. Still, for the same features to be present on Earth and Mars, the two professors suspected similar processes would have made them.


They had just over a week in Alaska to discover what created the glaciers and fans.


During this time they managed to see an impressive 289 events, including rock falls and floods. The vast majority of these events were snow and ice avalanches. The frequency of these avalanches astounded the scientists, who reasoned that climate change was the most likely culprit. As temperatures rise, the glaciers pull back, creating large areas where ice has been separated. Material can fall down these cracks and lead to avalanches. This was creating the features seen in Alaska, and perhaps the same thing had happened on Mars.


An astounding prediction


Realizing the importance of this discovery, Kochel and Trop presented their findings to a NASA lunar and planetary science meeting. Their comparisons were based on older photographs of Mars, but the HiRISE camera aboard NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter was sending back new pictures which further confirmed the idea of avalanches on Mars.


Kochel and Trop explained that with a bit of luck and good timing, it would be possible to snap photographs of martian avalanches.


Amazingly, soon afterwards the orbiter sent back images of an ice flow avalanche in action on Mars. Pieces of ice, dust and possibly rocks crashed down from high, steep areas, sending clouds of fine material billowing upwards. The cloud itself was about 590 feet (180 meters) across. The exact cause of the avalanche isn't known with certainty, but it could be because the sun warmed layers of ice.


This was the first time an avalanche had been observed on another world, and was the perfect confirmation of Kochel and Trop's ideas.


Valuable research


Studies like this help us understand the changes that take place during periods of climate variation. They also show that although planets like the Earth and Mars are very different places, in many ways they can be astoundingly similar.


The details of this paper will also be of interest to astrobiologists. Searching for water on other worlds is thought to be a key step toward finding life, and understanding how the water cycle takes place on Mars will help scientists make more accurate predictions. Couple water with a dynamic world experiencing changes to its landscape, and Mars looks all the more promising for life (My edit: The beginning of the article says average temp is -81*F. Who the fuck would want to live there??)


Kochel and Trop's research paper was published in the July issue of the journal Icarus.

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 02:52 PM
Us dirty rotten humans are polluting the earth so much that it's spilling out to mars now?!?! I GOTTA GO BUY SOME CARBON CREDITS QUICK!!!!!!!!

Dave
07-17-2008, 03:22 PM
clearly its because the mars rovers werent hybrid electric :rolleyes: kinda hard to ''go green'' on a red planet isint it?

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 04:29 PM
Oh man am I sick of the "go green" crap. "Go green" this and "eco" that. AAAAAHH!!!! It's all retarted. No I will NOT "go green." I will "go" whatever the hell color I feel like.

:rant:

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 04:37 PM
actually what Al Gore says in his movie isn't that we're causing global warming... global warming is a natural cycle that the earth goes through, and has gone through thousands of times... it's that we're speeding it up and making what seems to be (from a scientific stand point) the most drastic cycle change yet.

if you haven't seen the movie... I'd sudgest you watch it... keep an open mind... lots of good points... not saying I 100% agree with Al Gore... just that it's OBVIOUS that a lot of what we do harms the plannet... so why not research ways of continueing to do what we do with less impact? seems like common sense to me.

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 04:51 PM
Does he explain how he invented the internet?

Sorry, not going to waste my time with that. I don't care what the man's politcal standpoint is, I just think he's an idiot.

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 05:11 PM
:lol: close minded much?

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 05:30 PM
Not really. I'm not going to take advice from someone who's house burns 10 times the energy mine does. Not to mention someone who "went green" on his house and is now burning MORE energy than before he "went green."

Just like if I want financial advice, I'm not going to ask a broke person.

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 06:12 PM
just busting your chops...

but as far as his house (news to me) using MORE energy isn't bad if it's green... it's the impact on the enviroment that he's worried about... so true green power may use more energy... but have little to no impact on the planet...

make sense?

Dave
07-17-2008, 06:43 PM
just busting your chops...

but as far as his house (news to me) using MORE energy isn't bad if it's green... it's the impact on the enviroment that he's worried about... so true green power may use more energy... but have little to no impact on the planet...

make sense?

uh, no.

Crazy
07-17-2008, 07:21 PM
if he lines his roof with solar panels, it doesnt matter if he's using more energy than your house does, because since your house is powered by coal instead, you're making a much larger impact on the environment. that make sense?

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 09:11 PM
uh, no.

should I write it in crayola? :lol:

Dave
07-17-2008, 09:30 PM
lets not forget the manufacturing of those solar panels and hybrid cars. And pretty sure my house is on the nuke grid, extra clean

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 10:09 PM
lets not forget the manufacturing of those solar panels and hybrid cars. And pretty sure my house is on the nuke grid, extra clean

Exactly. Not to mention, he spent how much on these "upgrades?" And he wants me to spend how much to "go green?" Sorry, I'm all for conserving, and I do within reason. But I just don't believe that humans are destroyng this planet like the environmentalists think.

That and the "go green" and "eco-whatever" cliches annoy the hell out of me.

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 10:28 PM
I think we'd be better off with population control than trying to go green... :2cents:

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 10:42 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is pollution control and how is it different than "going green?"

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 10:43 PM
dunno... I was talking about POPULATION control... :lol:

Cutty72
07-17-2008, 10:45 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is pollution control and how is it different than "going green?"

he said "population control" not "pollution control" :lol:

but really, what is better for the environment.
-drive your 5 y/o car that gets 25 mpg
OR
-trade that in on a brand new hybrid that gets 32 mpg?

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 10:48 PM
ride my 5 year old motorcycle that gets 50+ :lol:

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 10:51 PM
dunno... I was talking about POPULATION control... :lol:

Ebbs ---> :ps: <---me

:lol: That's what I get for trying to do teh internetz when I'm tired.

And yes, I agree. Thin the herd ftw.

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 10:56 PM
:lol: it's cool... I agree btw... going green as far as all the manufacturing wastes is as bad if not worse than the none green products they're replacing.



that brings up a question... if Green is the new good for the enviroment shit... what's the old way's color? Red? Black? Brown? :idk:

Audiomechanic
07-17-2008, 11:03 PM
Dunno. Couldn't be brown cause dookie is good for the enviornment and tree trunks are brown. Blue's out cause of the sky. Red's out cause of flowers and junk. It's probably white since us white guys are the devil anyway.

Mr Lefty
07-17-2008, 11:06 PM
yeah... and we already get booed for saying White Power... :lol:

Dave
07-18-2008, 10:03 AM
hey all im saying is that if people want to be zero emissions smith and wesson is here to help. just think of all the carbon dioxide and methane you will be saving the earth from! and your corpse will make great fertilizer for some species of weed in the middle of the rain forest that might on a million percent chance cure cancer...or is much more likely to cause a nasty rash removable in 5-6 weeks with regular applications of benadryl. but hey you will be dead and finally 100% green anyway so who gives a care? al gore should lead the way since hes so righteous :rolleyes:

Audiomechanic
07-18-2008, 02:23 PM
To get this thread back on topic:

Did you know that Al Gore invented Mars?

Dave
07-18-2008, 03:43 PM
To get this thread back on topic:

Did you know that Al Gore invented Mars?

of course! thats why he put his face on it

http://anomalyhunters.com/cradle/FaceVkg.jpghttp://www.solarnavigator.net/media/media_images/Al_Gore_Vice_President_of_the_United_States_offici al_portrait_1994.jpg

Audiomechanic
07-18-2008, 03:47 PM
:lmao:

Nico
07-18-2008, 03:49 PM
well I say fuck this "green" nonsense. I'll start making a slight effort when the 1+ billion Red commies in China decide to stop polluting the shit out of the world. .......kinda fitting that red commies ain't green.... and that's my two pence.

Rider
07-18-2008, 03:50 PM
This guys funnier.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/politics/images/cand_ag.jpg

Smittie61984
07-18-2008, 06:40 PM
Maybe it's the Martians coming in and out of our atmosphere to probe me. I guess I'll have to give that up.