BofA chief: We have a 'right to make a profit'

[pauldun170]

(PR Lesson #45 -There are somethings you say and some things you keep to yourself when a microphone is in front of you)

WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- Bank of America's CEO defended his bank's new $5 fee on debit cards on Wednesday, saying that customers and shareholders understand the bank has a "right to make a profit."

Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500) CEO Brian Moynihan defended the move, which the bank announced last week in response to new caps on debit card swipe fees that the banks charge retailers.

Bank of America's announcement of a new debit card fee was followed today by an announcement of new checking account fees by Citibank (C, Fortune 500). These new bank fees have fueled a populist backlash that has coincided with a series of protests against Wall Street banks around the nation.

Moynihan stopped short of criticizing President Obama who earlier this week said to ABC that banks don't have an "inherent right" to a "certain amount of profit."

But BofA's chief did say banks have an inherent right to make a profit in an interview Wednesday with CNBC's Larry Kudlow at the Washington Ideas Forum, sponsored by the Newseum, the Aspen Institute and the Atlantic magazine.

"I have an inherent duty as a CEO of a publicly owned company to get a return for my shareholders," Moynihan said.
Bank of America cutting 30,000 jobs

Moynihan said that the bank will talk to its customers, teammates and shareholders and "they'll understand what we're doing -- understand we have a right to make a profit."

Moynihan said the bank had made the fee clear and transparent to its customers and noted the bank had given plenty of advance notice because the fee won't kick in until next year.

But he said the new charge was necessary because the "ability to be profitable" in retail banking has changed. He added that Wall Street reforms in the so-called Dodd-Frank Act will cost his bank "billions."

When Kudlow asked Moynihan if he felt the bank was under attack, Moynihan said "no."

"We have the best bank in the world, we do a great job for our customers," he added.
9 most annoying bank fees

Later, Moynihan was asked about an entirely different issue, whether he supported a proposed tax on millionaires that Senate Democrats proposed today.

He said he'd echo what he hears from his millionaire customers: "Yes, but what for?"

"If the belief is that it puts our fiscal house in order, then they support that," Moynihan said. To top of page


http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/05/news/economy/bank_of_america_moynihan/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2

[Particle Man]

You want to charge me to access my own money? Screw you, I'll go elsewhere.

[Corey]

When do these fees kick in? I'm in the middle of a stretch of auto payments that are hitting about every other day. I'd like to know when I need to drop their shit and go elsewhere.

[OneSickPsycho]

You want to charge me to access my own money? Screw you, I'll go elsewhere.

And that's your right... you don't want to use their services, you don't have to... Just as they have the right to charge whatever the fuck they want to use their services...

Interesting article: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec11/bankfees_09-30.html

Hey, 'how about the government quit fucking with shit?' is pretty much my feel on the story...

[Particle Man]

And that's your right... you don't want to use their services, you don't have to... Just as they have the right to charge whatever the fuck they want to use their services...

Interesting article: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec11/bankfees_09-30.html

Hey, 'how about the government quit fucking with shit?' is pretty much my feel on the story...

Exactly. Same premise if I'm "offended" by something on TV or the radio... change the channel.

Problem solved.

THAT is freedom.

[OneSickPsycho]

Exactly. Same premise if I'm "offended" by something on TV or the radio... change the channel.

Problem solved.

THAT is freedom.

Ron Paul 2012 motherfuckers....

[tommymac]

When do these fees kick in? I'm in the middle of a stretch of auto payments that are hitting about every other day. I'd like to know when I need to drop their shit and go elsewhere.

citibank starts next month. me and wifey have our accts there, fees are waived for me apparently since i am a state employee and use direct deposit, I may add her name to some of my accts so she doesnt get hit either. I was prety much ready to pull my money out and be done withthem if we had to pay the fees

[shmike]

This is the latest in a long line of...

Why the fuck would anyone use a debit card?

[fatbuckRTO]

I've enjoyed watching Dick Durbin lambast BoA for raising fees in response to legislation for which Durbin himself is responsible.

[pauldun170]

The fee on debit card use is in response to the new regulations on other charges.
You should expect this practice to spread to other banks...

http://nation.foxnews.com/bank-america/2011/10/03/thank-dick-durbin-bank-america-swipe-fees

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/durbin-to-bank-of-america-customers-get-the-heck-out-of-that-bank/

[fatbuckRTO]

The fee on debit card use is in response to the new regulations on other charges.
You should expect this practice to spread to other banks...Huh? The fee on debit card use is in response to the cap on the debit card fees banks could charge businesses. Right or wrong, BoA is just passing those costs (or, reduction of incomes) on to consumers. Durbin knew that would happen but tried to pretend that his amendment would somehow benefit small businesses. Pretty smart; now that what Durbin knew would happen actually has happened, he can play "champion of the people" and focus more hate on the banks that raise debit card fees.

But I suppose small business owners are saving some money. Until they use their own debit cards...

[Corey]

This is the latest in a long line of...

Why the fuck would anyone use a debit card?

I primarily use a debit card. I don't carry cash if I don't have to. It's easier to keep track of my purchases and see where my money goes. If I have cash in my pocket, it's much easier for me to spend for no reason. The debit card makes me think about what I'm buying. I don't have a credit card and, quite honestly, see no need for one. If I can't afford a purchase, I don't need it. So, for me at least, a debit card is a must.

[pauldun170]

Huh? The fee on debit card use is in response to the cap on the debit card fees banks could charge businesses. Right or wrong, BoA is just passing those costs (or, reduction of incomes) on to consumers. Durbin knew that would happen but tried to pretend that his amendment would somehow benefit small businesses. Pretty smart; now that what Durbin knew would happen actually has happened, he can play "champion of the people" and focus more hate on the banks that raise debit card fees.

But I suppose small business owners are saving some money. Until they use their own debit cards...

I went in to it with a vague recollection of new regulations on fees
I wrote a little sumtin
I read the pbs link
I googled Durbin
I said found two links and read them
I said "Dat wittle rascal is dee-yoosh"
I posted links
I hit submit without a care in the world.
I typed that first part
To hell with anybody who demands I delete my hard work typing.

I learned a little in the process.
I feel I've grown a little.

[OneSickPsycho]

I primarily use a debit card. I don't carry cash if I don't have to. It's easier to keep track of my purchases and see where my money goes. If I have cash in my pocket, it's much easier for me to spend for no reason. The debit card makes me think about what I'm buying. I don't have a credit card and, quite honestly, see no need for one. If I can't afford a purchase, I don't need it. So, for me at least, a debit card is a must.

I use a CC for everything... pay it off every month... and will earn at least $750 this year in cash back.

Used to use a debit card... until someone got a hold of it and wiped out my account. If you're responsible, the CC is the best way to go...

[fasternyou929]

I don't have a credit card and, quite honestly, see no need for one. If I can't afford a purchase, I don't need it. So, for me at least, a debit card is a must.

Sigh, the lack of logic in this statement is baffling.

I use a CC for everything... pay it off every month... and will earn at least $750 this year in cash back.

Good to see common sense isn't dead.

[EpyonXero]

This is the latest in a long line of...

Why the fuck would anyone use a debit card?

I never make debit card purchases (PIN) but I make chack card purchases all the time (VISA/signature). When I first heard this story I just heard "debit" and pretty much ignored it thinking that it only applied to PIN purchases. Reading this article HERE (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/story/2011-10-03/how-to-avoid-debit-card-fees/50646976/1) it says that BoA will be charging for signature purchases too. My main account is at Wells Fargo who is testing a fee right now, if they implement it I will immediately close my account and go to USAA or ING who I also have accounts with and have stated that they will not be charginf fees. Ive had the same bank account since I was 12 and it pisses me off how banks treat their customers.

[Tmall]

Keep speaking with your dollars guys.

My personal boycott list,

Nike
Netflix
Subway
Bell cellular
and soon to be my cable/internet provider.

I spend a fuck load of money, and these last couple of years I've enjoyed watching businesses fall because people are taking action. Where I choose to spend or store my money is only a drop in a bucket, but the drops add up eventually.

[Corey]

Sigh, the lack of logic in this statement is baffling.



How so? I get rewards for using my debit card, so I'm not missing out there. I'm in school and have a limited budget. I understand that if I had a credit card, I'd be more tempted to live outside my means and have a continuous balance on my card which negates the advantages of using a credit card as my primary means of payment. I understand my spending habits, my income, and my current debt load. In my situation, a credit card doesn't work.

[shmike]

I use a CC for everything... pay it off every month... and will earn at least $750 this year in cash back.

Used to use a debit card... until someone got a hold of it and wiped out my account. If you're responsible, the CC is the best way to go...

Word.

Most of the decorations in our home, the entire guest bathroom and countless other purchases have been made possible by the redeeming of reward points.

We are staying at a posh resort for a long weekend starting tonight...paid for with reward points.

If someone gets ahold of my card and charges $19k for what sound like surface to air missles (actually happend to me), I get a new card overnighted and don't lose any spending power.

I get a concierge service, automatic car rental insurance, road side assistance and other benefits from my card.

I also get to use the credit card company's money free for over a month.

CC > DC

[fatbuckRTO]

II feel I've grown a little.
I'll need a chart for proof. Or internet poll...

[pauldun170]

I'll need a chart for proof. Or internet poll...

I was talking about "down there"
I'm not posting that

[fatbuckRTO]

I was talking about "down there"
I'm not posting thatSo instead of viewing an internet poll I have to picture an internet pole?

:( You make Baby Jesus cry.

[Homeslice]

How so? I get rewards for using my debit card, so I'm not missing out there. I'm in school and have a limited budget. I understand that if I had a credit card, I'd be more tempted to live outside my means and have a continuous balance on my card which negates the advantages of using a credit card as my primary means of payment. I understand my spending habits, my income, and my current debt load. In my situation, a credit card doesn't work.

I don't think there's a debit card that offers as many benefits/rewards as a good CC.

[Homeslice]

Word.

Most of the decorations in our home, the entire guest bathroom and countless other purchases have been made possible by the redeeming of reward points.

We are staying at a posh resort for a long weekend starting tonight...paid for with reward points.

If someone gets ahold of my card and charges $19k for what sound like surface to air missles (actually happend to me), I get a new card overnighted and don't lose any spending power.

I get a concierge service, automatic car rental insurance, road side assistance and other benefits from my card.

I also get to use the credit card company's money free for over a month.

CC > DC

Is this your employer's corporate card, or totally personal?

[Smittie61984]

You want to charge me to access my own money? Screw you, I'll go elsewhere.

They're not charging you for access to your money. they are charging you for a service.

[shmike]

Is this your employer's corporate card, or totally personal?

Personal.

I don't use a corporate card much anymore. When I do, my employer keeps the rewards.

[Corey]

I don't think there's a debit card that offers as many benefits/rewards as a good CC.

Absolutely not, but my debit card isn't going to allow me to carry a debt load month to month, and that's more important in my current situation than collecting whatever rewards.

[Particle Man]

I was talking about "down there"
I'm not posting that

Please don't

[Homeslice]

Personal.

I don't use a corporate card much anymore. When I do, my employer keeps the rewards.
Do you charge your mortgage payment on it, or buy new cars with it? :lol:
A whole vacation and bathroom remodel is a pretty large benefit. How long did it take to accumulate it?

[shmike]

Do you charge your mortgage payment on it, or buy new cars with it? :lol:
A whole vacation and bathroom remodel is a pretty large benefit. How long did it take to accumulate it?

If I could, I would.

It wasn't the whole bathroom remodel (labor) but all the cabinets, fixtures, etc.

The whole vacation isn't paid for, but the room is.

Our mortgage, insurance (home and auto), electric, cleaning and lawn bills are either paid by check or autopay.

Everything else goes on CC.

[fasternyou929]

How so? I get rewards for using my debit card, so I'm not missing out there. I'm in school and have a limited budget. I understand that if I had a credit card, I'd be more tempted to live outside my means and have a continuous balance on my card which negates the advantages of using a credit card as my primary means of payment. I understand my spending habits, my income, and my current debt load. In my situation, a credit card doesn't work.
All points below assume since you know your budget, you have the mental capacity to stay within your budget using a credit card just as you do using a debit card. If you're sharper than a marble, you meet this criteria.

1. Your debit card is linked DIRECTLY to YOUR money. If someone gets hold of it, the impact to you is much higher (locked account/missing funds) and lingers longer than it would with a CC (typical turn around is 24 hours to get a new CC and carry on like nothing happened).

2. Rewards are always higher on a CC than DC.

3. Buyer protection is higher on a CC than DC, including benefits like extended warranties, sometimes price protection, etc.

4. You build up a credit history using a CC, not a DC.

The real question is, if you know your budget and monitor your spending, what is the benefit to using a Debit Card?

And the least sensical part of your statement: "If I can't afford a purchase, I don't need it" implies credit cards are ONLY for buying things you can't afford. :wtfru:

[shmike]

All points below assume since you know your budget, and you have the mental capacity to stay within your budget using a credit card just as you do using a debit card. If you're sharper than a marble, you meet this criteria.

1. Your debit card is linked DIRECTLY to YOUR money. If someone gets hold of it, the impact to you is much higher (locked account/missing funds) and lingers longer than it would with a CC (typical turn around is 24 hours to get a new CC and carry on like nothing happened).

This to me is one of the biggest issues.

If money is tight, odds are you have a low balance in your account.

Anytime a "hold" is placed on your card (hotel room, rental car, etc.) your money is no longer accessible to you. You could actually be denied access to your own money or bounce a check even though the money is waiting there ready to pay it!

Also, the theft issues. While your liability is the same, it is a much bigger (and longer) battle to get your money back from the bank than the CC companies (personal experience).

Corey,

If your debit still pays rewards, they are one of the few. Most have eliminated them.

Some have started charging fees, others will follow suit.

[Homeslice]

I never make debit card purchases (PIN) but I make chack card purchases all the time (VISA/signature).

What's the difference between a debit card and a check card?
I thought that any checking account ATM card is just called a debit card.

[OneSickPsycho]

#3 continued...

Warranties aren't just warranties either... many offer complete product replacement, including returns for buyer's remorse... also emergency roadside assistance is pretty standard...

[Corey]

All points below assume since you know your budget, you have the mental capacity to stay within your budget using a credit card just as you do using a debit card. If you're sharper than a marble, you meet this criteria.

1. Your debit card is linked DIRECTLY to YOUR money. If someone gets hold of it, the impact to you is much higher (locked account/missing funds) and lingers longer than it would with a CC (typical turn around is 24 hours to get a new CC and carry on like nothing happened).

2. Rewards are always higher on a CC than DC.

3. Buyer protection is higher on a CC than DC, including benefits like extended warranties, sometimes price protection, etc.

4. You build up a credit history using a CC, not a DC.

The real question is, if you know your budget and monitor your spending, what is the benefit to using a Debit Card?

And the least sensical part of your statement: "If I can't afford a purchase, I don't need it" implies credit cards are ONLY for buying things you can't afford. :wtfru:

Again, my situation is a personal thing that I understand. I know that if I have a credit card, I'll carry a debt with it and spend more than is necessary. I've done it in the past and got in a large debt. So, it's an understanding that the benefits of a credit card would probably be negligible for my situation. The rewards, though very convenient to have, are also negligible. My bills are paid through automatic draft off my bank account. Any expenditure beyond that is minimal. I've paid off my car, bike, and loans (except student loans). I've budgeted everything around being a "poor" college student for the next two years to afford me the opportunity of not having to work and being a full time student. A credit card is a variable that could potentially throw that off, so it's not benefitial for my situation. That will most likely change when I'm out of school and making real money again, but that'll be an adjustment made when necessary.

[shmike]

Again, my situation is a personal thing that I understand. I know that if I have a credit card, I'll carry a debt with it and spend more than is necessary. I've done it in the past and got in a large debt. So, it's an understanding that the benefits of a credit card would probably be negligible for my situation. The rewards, though very convenient to have, are also negligible. My bills are paid through automatic draft off my bank account. Any expenditure beyond that is minimal. I've paid off my car, bike, and loans (except student loans). I've budgeted everything around being a "poor" college student for the next two years to afford me the opportunity of not having to work and being a full time student. A credit card is a variable that could potentially throw that off, so it's not benefitial for my situation. That will most likely change when I'm out of school and making real money again, but that'll be an adjustment made when necessary.


Tough to argue with that logic.

I've been there before too.

At this point, I see the debit card as more of a liability than a CC but everyone's situation is different.

[EpyonXero]

What's the difference between a debit card and a check card?
I thought that any checking account ATM card is just called a debit card.

Now-a-days the cards are one and the same. But before they were just ATM cards, then stores started accepting them as payment so they were called debit cards, finally VISA and MC got onboard and they became check cards.

You can have a debit card thats linked to a savings account that would not be a check card.

[Sixxxxer]

They're not charging you for access to your money. they are charging you for a service.
That service being...Holding YOUR Money.

Fuck That shit, My bank charges 2 dollars...and Ive been okay with it for now...but I do have an ING account and may open a USAA one shortly and cut ties with my current bank completely.

[Homeslice]

That service being...Holding YOUR Money.
.

And giving you free checking, free auto-pay, free direct deposit, free ATM card.....

[Smittie61984]

That service being...Holding YOUR Money.


Then why put it in a bank at all? Why not just keep it at your house/apartment/buried in the backyard?

I'm guessing you like the security of your money/wealth being in a bank. Why? If your house burns down and you have all of your money and savings in there then it is gone and nothing left to do except bitch. If the bank burns down or your house burns down then you go to the bank and retrieve your money.

You are also paying for the convienence of not having to run to your bank every day and to get a certain amount of money.

But as stated earlier. If people don't like it then you can get another bank. My bank actually pays my ATM fees back when I use it. I also don't pay monthly and well I don't pay anything ever.

[Sixxxxer]

Your right, I use it bc i pay my bills online and it is convenient, but 5 years ago this shit was UNHEARD of...Now all the sudden they feel the need to charge you fee's? Why now? banks havent just been invented...It's greed and its shitty.

[Particle Man]

They're not charging you for access to your money. they are charging you for a service.

these days, you can even find stores that will either not accept cash without going through all sorts of hoops or they have ONE cash only line with everything else being electronic.

Again, they aren't charging me shit - I will continue going elsewhere. If other places follow suit, I'll go back to writing checks. I have no problem with writing a check to myself for cash and going to the bank. Not convenient but I'll still do it. I will laugh my ass off when the banks bitch about the administrative costs of handling checks.

Oh and by the way, they're using my money to make investments off of which they make their money when I make a deposit; basically, I'm allowing the bank to borrow my money. With the "charging for a service" logic, I should be within my rights then, to charge THEM a fee for providing THEM with a service.

And giving you free checking, free auto-pay, free direct deposit, free ATM card.....

Consider it a continuation of the above logic - that's my service charge for allowing them to use my money.

[anthonyk]

Oh and by the way, they're using my money to make investments off of which they make their money when I make a deposit; basically, I'm allowing the bank to borrow my money. With the "charging for a service" logic, I should be within my rights then, to charge THEM a fee for providing THEM with a service.



Consider it a continuation of the above logic - that's my service charge for allowing them to use my money.

I remember when you could actually get a meaningful interest rate with your checking account. Jeez, I feel old.

[Particle Man]

I remember when you could actually get a meaningful interest rate with your checking account. Jeez, I feel old.

Same.

[Homeslice]

I remember when you could actually get a meaningful interest rate with your checking account. Jeez, I feel old.

Blame Bernanke for that.

[Sixxxxer]

these days, you can even find stores that will either not accept cash without going through all sorts of hoops or they have ONE cash only line with everything else being electronic.

Again, they aren't charging me shit - I will continue going elsewhere. If other places follow suit, I'll go back to writing checks. I have no problem with writing a check to myself for cash and going to the bank. Not convenient but I'll still do it. I will laugh my ass off when the banks bitch about the administrative costs of handling checks.

Oh and by the way, they're using my money to make investments off of which they make their money when I make a deposit; basically, I'm allowing the bank to borrow my money. With the "charging for a service" logic, I should be within my rights then, to charge THEM a fee for providing THEM with a service.



Consider it a continuation of the above logic - that's my service charge for allowing them to use my money.

Hit the Nail Right on the Head.

People think Good Banks arent making money? :lol

[goof2]

I have one issue with the statement. They have a right to TRY to make a profit.

[Particle Man]

I have one issue with the statement. They have a right to TRY to make a profit.

American sense of entitlement

[Sixxxxer]

I have one issue with the statement. They have a right to TRY to make a profit.

Bank of America is not exactly hurting in the Profit department.

[goof2]

Bank of America is not exactly hurting in the Profit department.

For now. Interest rates go up, ARMs reset, another wave of foreclosures hit, and they are right back in the bailout line. Most of the banks that are supposedly out of trouble are only safe as long as the Fed continues to ignore inflation.

[Particle Man]

For now. Interest rates go up, ARMs reset, another wave of foreclosures hit, and they are right back in the bailout line. Most of the banks that are supposedly out of trouble are only safe as long as the Fed continues to ignore inflation.

And why, pray tell, are so many banks so susceptible to IR's and ARM's and stuff? Why so many foreclosures? Oh yes: they gave away mortgages like candy.

Sorry but they have a fairly significant portion of the blame for being so fragile.

[goof2]

And why, pray tell, are so many banks so susceptible to IR's and ARM's and stuff? Why so many foreclosures? Oh yes: they gave away mortgages like candy.

Sorry but they have a fairly significant portion of the blame for being so fragile.

Of course I agree with that. Any business can make bad business decisions that can lose them money, and the ones BoA (and Countrywide before BoA was supposedly strong-armed in to buying them) made were horrendous.

That just further demonstrates that Sixxxxer's contention BoA either makes enough money or has a business model that guarantees profits is silly though.

[Homeslice]

BOA thought other banks would fall in line with them.....guess not. :zowned:

Bank of America has dropped its planned $5 monthly debit card fee, in a complete reversal of its announcement late September that attracted a maelstrom of customer anger.

"We have listened to our customers very closely over the last few weeks and recognize their concern with our proposed debit usage fee," David Darnell, co-chief operating officer, said in a statement today. "Our customers' voices are most important to us. As a result, we are not currently charging the fee and will not be moving forward with any additional plans to do so."

After Bank of America, based in Charlotte, N.C., announced the planned fee, customers expressed outrage, including a petition signed by 300,000 customers across the country threatening to leave the bank if the fee were implemented.

The company said Friday it was planning to offer more choices for customers to avoid the fee, although it was still planning to charge it next year. A person familiar with the matter had said customers could avoid the fee if they maintain minimum balances, deposit paychecks directly or use Bank of America credit cards.

"We're continuing to refine the program," a source told ABC News' Matt Gutman Friday.

Early in October, Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan told Gutman the fee "is meant to provide great service" and that customers with a balance greater than $5,000 will be exempt.

Smaller community banks and credit unions tried to recruit irate customers who were planning to leave the big banks.

But large national banks have stated they will not charge customers for debit card fees, although many in the banking industry had warned financial institutions would begin to charge higher fees as a result of federal banking regulation.

JPMorgan Chase decided last week it will not charge customers who use their debit cards for purchases, joining a growing list of banks that had no plans to follow the lead of financial giant Bank of America.

JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, U.S. Bank, PNC Financial, and Key Bank have confirmed they are not planning to charge customers debit card fees when they make purchases.

JPMorgan Chase, the largest bank in the country by total assets, began testing a $3 fee in parts of Wisconsin and Georgia in February. But the bank decided it won't roll out the fee to the rest of the country, as first reported by the Wall Street Journal.

A person familiar with Chase confirmed with ABC News that it is not planning to charge debit card fees due to customer preferences.

Many in the banking industry had warned that higher fees to consumers would follow the Dodd-Frank's Durbin Amendment, which went into effect on Oct. 1. The amendment capped debit card interchange fees for merchants at 21 cents per transaction earlier this year. Before the amendment, debit card companies charged merchants an average interchange fee of 44 cents per transaction.

[shmike]

BOA thought other banks would fall in line with them.....guess not. :zowned:


I saw that this morning and thought of this thread.

[Smittie61984]

And why, pray tell, are so many banks so susceptible to IR's and ARM's and stuff? Why so many foreclosures? Oh yes: they gave away mortgages like candy.

Sorry but they have a fairly significant portion of the blame for being so fragile.

The government can take some blame there by reguating the banks to the moon if they didn't give out loans like candy.

As for BofA stopping the debit charges.

Yay, capitalism. (picture Austin Powers saying it)

[Particle Man]

BOA thought other banks would fall in line with them.....guess not. :zowned:Funny shit

[Sixxxxer]

Power to the people, For once.