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View Full Version : san fran raises min. wage over $10/hr


RACER X
12-14-2011, 10:04 AM
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- David Frias works two minimum-wage jobs to squeak by in one of the most expensive cities in America.

Come New Year's Day, he'll have a few more coins in his pocket as San Francisco makes history by becoming the first city in the nation to scale a $10 minimum wage. The city's hourly wage for its lowest-paid workers will hit $10.24, more than $2 above the California minimum wage and nearly $3 more than the working wage set by the federal government.

It won't put much more in Frias' wallet. But it gives him a sense of moving on up.

"It's a psychological boost," said Frias, who is a 34-year-old usher at a movie theater and a security guard for a crowd control firm. "It means that I'll have more money in my wallet to pay my bills and money to spend in the city to help the economy."

San Franciscans passed a proposition in 2003 that requires the city to increase the minimum wage each year, using a formula tied to inflation and the cost of living. It's just another way the progressive people of the City by the Bay have shown their support for the working-class in a locale where labor unions remain strong and housing costs are sky high.

Karl Kramer of the San Francisco Living Wage Coalition said a decent wage for a single adult without children in the city would be $15, and that doubles when you have at least one child or more. But like other advocates of better wages, he's still pleased that San Francisco will be the first in the nation to top $10.

"It helps workers' morale in a time of economic crisis; they feel that they're able to tread water and get some relief from the recession," said Kramer.

While the city is at the forefront of attempting to provide a decent living wage, most employees say it's still not a wage to live on, that the 32-cent hike seems like peanuts. And some employers say it could lead to layoffs by small businesses already forced to pay federal, state and city payroll taxes as well as a slew of other city-mandated taxes.

Daniel Scherotter, chef and owner of Palio D'Asti, an upscale Italian restaurant in the Financial District, said the city's minimum wage hike from $9.92 to $10.24 means that his highest-paid employees — the waiters who make most of their income from tips — will see more money in their pockets while his salaried kitchen staff will have to take the hit.

If Scherotter raised menu prices to make up the difference, he'd risk going out of business in this economy.

What the average San Franciscan may not know, he said, is that business owners also must pay another $1.23 to $1.85 an hour per employee for health-care coverage if they don't offer health insurance. San Francisco is also the only city in the state that charges a payroll tax of 1.5 percent; it also mandates nine paid sick days annually per employee.

"So that drives me nuts, that as a chef, I have to cut my kitchen allowance," Scherotter said. "What I pay for a waiter is more than double what Manhattan pays, it's more than double what Chicago pays, and it's four times what Boston pays. And those are ... other big, expensive, pro-labor cities. But I pay what they all pay added together for tipped employees."

Scherotter said the double whammy of recession and wage hikes has led to eight layoffs in his kitchen in the last four years.

"We hear that all the time," said Steve Falk, president and CEO of the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce.

He said that by the time you add up all the mandates and taxes that city employers must pay for their minimum-wage workers, the payroll burden is at least 25 to 40 percent higher than other Bay Area cities.

He gave the example of catering companies bidding for the contract at the city's Treasure Island. In the end it went to a Napa firm over a San Francisco catering company because Napa was able to come in lower.

"You can't on one hand as a city impose mandates and fees on a local business and then exclude them because their costs are too high when they go to bid on a city contract or a city service," Falk said. The chamber of commerce is calling on the city to build in a 25 to 30 percent bid allowance for San Francisco companies.

"Fortunately, it's a very attractive place to own a business and businesses thrive here because of the number of visitors," Falk said. "But we always worry: where's the tipping point?"

That tipping point needs to lean toward the worker, said David Madland, director of the American Worker Project at the Washington, D.C.-based Center for American Progress Action Fund. He said the best studies on minimum wage indicate that the benefits outweigh the burdens placed on employers.

"I think it's a big deal when a city is making a commitment that says, 'Our workers are going to get paid a livable wage for a day's work,'" he said. "It's also very important that in today's economy when a core problem is lack of demand ... that a city is actively taking steps to put more money into consumers' pockets."

For Frias, it's not just about a bit more change in his pocket.

"Hey, it's a little over $10 — it's a little bit of respect."


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sf-becomes-first-us-city-084124973.html

Particle Man
12-14-2011, 10:08 AM
It's a start - even 10/hr is damn low when you're feeding a family.

On the flip side, this may be an issue for small businesses who are also just barely scraping by.

I'm divided on this one.

RACER X
12-14-2011, 10:11 AM
raise min. wage, EVERYTHING else will go up accordingly.

Particle Man
12-14-2011, 10:13 AM
raise min. wage, EVERYTHING else will go up accordingly.

What do you define as "Everything"?

I'm thinking prices of just about everything for sure which will lead back to the status quo. That where you're going too?

RACER X
12-14-2011, 10:16 AM
employers will just pass that increase back to the customers.

tommymac
12-14-2011, 10:18 AM
What do you define as "Everything"?

I'm thinking prices of just about everything for sure which will lead back to the status quo. That where you're going too?

Already seeing that esp at the super market, noticed the last few months prety much everything has gone up.

Particle Man
12-14-2011, 10:50 AM
Already seeing that esp at the super market, noticed the last few months prety much everything has gone up.

Truth. Bought like 10 things at the supermarket yesterday and it was close to 100 bucks.

tommymac
12-14-2011, 10:53 AM
Truth. Bought like 10 things at the supermarket yesterday and it was close to 100 bucks.

those are like my trips to the beer store LOL

Now were all about having the pantry. Stuff goes on sale buy all we can :lol:

Dave
12-14-2011, 11:35 AM
people really dont understand how this works do they? roll on hyperinflation :rolleyes:

pauldun170
12-14-2011, 11:39 AM
The more money in the pocket of the worker\consumer the more the seller can charge per unit.

Congratulations!!
You and all your friends now make an extra $2 an hour.
I can now raise the price on that thing you buy because the market can bear the price increase!

Status quo still in place. Only now a $10 bill just got a little ghetto.

tommymac
12-14-2011, 12:34 PM
The more money in the pocket of the worker\consumer the more the seller can charge per unit.

Congratulations!!
You and all your friends now make an extra $2 an hour.
I can now raise the price on that thing you buy because the market can bear the price increase!

Status quo still in place. Only now a $10 bill just got a little ghetto.

The problem the last few years is how all these companies are cutting back due to the recession so no raises for many, but the cost of goods has still risen.

Particle Man
12-14-2011, 01:04 PM
people really dont understand how this works do they? roll on hyperinflation :rolleyes:

The more money in the pocket of the worker\consumer the more the seller can charge per unit.

Congratulations!!
You and all your friends now make an extra $2 an hour.
I can now raise the price on that thing you buy because the market can bear the price increase!

Status quo still in place. Only now a $10 bill just got a little ghetto.

Yep - sheeple think that dumping more money into the economy is going to solve things. Fuel on the fire.

pauldun170
12-14-2011, 02:49 PM
Yep - sheeple think that dumping more money into the economy is going to solve things. Fuel on the fire.

There are ways to dump money into the economy and have it do something.
Infrastructure projects.

tommymac
12-14-2011, 02:53 PM
There are ways to dump money into the economy and have it do something.
Infrastructure projects.

God knows we need them too. Actualy my side job is on 2 sites improving the NYC infrastructure in that were building awater treatment and UV sterilization plant for NYC drinking water.

goof2
12-14-2011, 09:50 PM
Inflation? Can't be! The government says so.:lol:

Of course, it could be that the government is terrified that raising interest rates to control inflation (that doesn't exist, don't forget) will light the fuse on another foreclosure bomb. That would also be happening at the same time that the National Association of Realtors realized, whoops!, they've been overestimating housing sales figures by like 20% for the last 5 years. Too bad refusing to raise rates to counter (purely hypothetical) inflation is only likely to make things significantly harder to harness down the line.:shrug:

Homeslice
12-15-2011, 02:17 AM
I haven't seen any "hyper" inflation. Some things, sure, like groceries and utilities, but not everything. Certainly not electronics. And nobody I know who has recently purchased a bike paid any more than people were paying 5-6 years ago. And how about one of the biggest expenses of all, interest on home and car loans? They've been at record lows for years.

Homeslice
12-15-2011, 02:19 AM
Daniel Scherotter, chef and owner of Palio D'Asti, an upscale Italian restaurant in the Financial District, said the city's minimum wage hike from $9.92 to $10.24 means that his highest-paid employees — the waiters who make most of their income from tips — will see more money in their pockets while his salaried kitchen staff will have to take the hit.

Does this clown "reporter" not realize that waitstaff are covered by a separate law that allows them to be paid way under minimum wage, because of what they make in tips?

Tsunami
12-15-2011, 04:42 AM
Karl Kramer of the San Francisco Living Wage Coalition said a decent wage for a single adult without children in the city would be $15, and that doubles when you have at least one child or more. But like other advocates of better wages, he's still pleased that San Francisco will be the first in the nation to top $10.

$15 an hour equals just over 31k annually. How is that a decent wage for one of the most expensive place to live in the US?

Particle Man
12-15-2011, 06:21 AM
Does this clown "reporter" not realize that waitstaff are covered by a separate law that allows them to be paid way under minimum wage, because of what they make in tips?

Nope.

Amber Lamps
12-15-2011, 09:17 PM
Does this clown "reporter" not realize that waitstaff are covered by a separate law that allows them to be paid way under minimum wage, because of what they make in tips?

Um, I believe that the hourly wage of waitstaff is tied to a percentage of the minimum wage.... Also, the gov't of SF may have a different law in place.:idk: The restaurant owner used terms such as 3 or 4 times as much, so perhaps they don't operate the same way.

Aha, so the waiters do make the same hourly minimum wage.... Apparently, they can make around $60,000/year..... waiting tables.....wow..... fuck college!

Yuppie, " I went to college, spent $250,000 and now I make $75,000 /year"

Waitress, " I got my GED, started working 4-6 years sooner and make $60,000 working part time"

EpyonXero
12-15-2011, 09:28 PM
I haven't seen any "hyper" inflation. Some things, sure, like groceries and utilities, but not everything. Certainly not electronics. And nobody I know who has recently purchased a bike paid any more than people were paying 5-6 years ago. And how about one of the biggest expenses of all, interest on home and car loans? They've been at record lows for years.

Most of those prices have increased because of increases in energy prices. It takes a lot more than a minimum wage hike in one city to cause inflation.

Homeslice
12-15-2011, 10:52 PM
Um, I believe that the hourly wage of waitstaff is tied to a percentage of the minimum wage.... Also, the gov't of SF may have a different law in place.:idk: The restaurant owner used terms such as 3 or 4 times as much, so perhaps they don't operate the same way.

Aha, so the waiters do make the same hourly minimum wage.... Apparently, they can make around $60,000/year..... waiting tables.....wow..... fuck college!

Yuppie, " I went to college, spent $250,000 and now I make $75,000 /year"

Waitress, " I got my GED, started working 4-6 years sooner and make $60,000 working part time"

I don't know how it's calculated, but when I waited several years ago, it was only $2.51/hr

And to make $60K+ you need to work hard, at a very popular place with customers who aren't cheap

Rangerscott
12-15-2011, 11:28 PM
I cant wait until our economy is as inflated as China's. 1 million of our money to equal 100 of another countries currency.

Papa_Complex
12-16-2011, 08:01 AM
raise min. wage, EVERYTHING else will go up accordingly.

Why would it? Illegals don't get minimum wage.

RACER X
12-16-2011, 11:10 AM
my yard guy comes , say 4x a month. i goto retail establishments say 1x a day, think those establishments are gonna eat the pay raise?

Papa_Complex
12-16-2011, 12:49 PM
my yard guy comes , say 4x a month. i goto retail establishments say 1x a day, think those establishments are gonna eat the pay raise?

Your yard guy. And the cleaners at the retail location. And the dishwashers, and line cooks at restaurants. And the construction workers. And the contractors. And the taxi drivers. And....

RACER X
12-16-2011, 12:58 PM
sounds like we have 100% illegals working here.......

tommymac
12-16-2011, 03:42 PM
sounds like we have 100% illegals working here.......

what do you expect ed you live in texas, theyre all illegals :lol:

we get the same thing around NYC too