UFC 141 Lesnar Vs Overeem

[Sixxxxer]

If anyone has an Xbox, The UFC App Launched today and the first 25,000 People to Download it get the PPV for FREE.

I just "Bought" it in HD for absolutely nothing. :boobs:

Just thought I'd tell you guys since there's a few UFC fans on here.

[Corey]

Damn, that's fucking awesome. It's going to be interesting to see if Lesnar is worth a shit after having a foot of colon removed. The fight I'm really looking forward to on that card, though, is Cerrone vs Diaz. I hope Cerrone stomps a mudhole in Diaz.

[Tmall]

And its sold out.

[OneSickPsycho]

Damn, that's fucking awesome. It's going to be interesting to see if Lesnar is worth a shit after having a foot of colon removed. The fight I'm really looking forward to on that card, though, is Cerrone vs Diaz. I hope Cerrone stomps a mudhole in Diaz.

Yep, it should be interesting... and me with my RROD'ed Xbox...

I got Lesnar on this if he's the same freak animal we saw before his first bout with diverticulitis... He just didn't look like he had the strength he once had in the Carwin/Cain fights.

I also think Overeem is one of the most over-rated fighters out there... not that Brock is an MMA god or anything, but 'Reem's been fighting cans... Lesnar, while struggling, has ONLY fought the best (less his first fight and w/ Herring)... Overeem looked terrible against Werdum and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn since he was at 205... and he was something like 3-8 against top level competition.

The Lesnar of old should be able to take down Overeem with ease, be stronger, and have better cardio... if that's the beast that shows up on the 30th, it's going to be a long night for Overeem. However, if he doesn't show up like that or does something incredibly stupid like try to stand with Overeem, he's going to get beat senseless.

[OneSickPsycho]

Cerrone vs. Diaz... I got Cerrone on this one too... though I think he's been fighting too much and I worry that it could catch up with him... He's more technical, more powerful, and has under-rated ground game. If he can use his footwork to avoid the Stockton Slap (which I think he can), he should beat the ever-living shit out of Diaz.

[Sixxxxer]

And its sold out.

Damn I caught the tail end of that one...25,000 Went quick...I have a feeling that with the overwhelming download rate, they might open it up again at some point...I'd keep an eye on it.

[defector]

Yep, it should be interesting... and me with my RROD'ed Xbox...

I got Lesnar on this if he's the same freak animal we saw before his first bout with diverticulitis... He just didn't look like he had the strength he once had in the Carwin/Cain fights.

I also think Overeem is one of the most over-rated fighters out there... not that Brock is an MMA god or anything, but 'Reem's been fighting cans... Lesnar, while struggling, has ONLY fought the best (less his first fight and w/ Herring)... Overeem looked terrible against Werdum and hasn't fought anyone worth a damn since he was at 205... and he was something like 3-8 against top level competition.

The Lesnar of old should be able to take down Overeem with ease, be stronger, and have better cardio... if that's the beast that shows up on the 30th, it's going to be a long night for Overeem. However, if he doesn't show up like that or does something incredibly stupid like try to stand with Overeem, he's going to get beat senseless.

I would love to see him demolish "The Reem", but I think he's gonna eat a knee before he gets a chance for ground and pound.

[OneSickPsycho]

I would love to see him demolish "The Reem", but I think he's gonna eat a knee before he gets a chance for ground and pound.

Not sure that Reem will get him in the clinch without significant wrestling abilities... And throwing a knee as Lesnar shoots is dangerous... If it lands great, but if not he's done.

[Amber Lamps]

What fights are you guys watching? I watched Overeem become the K1 champ..... Are you all serious? Lesner? Um didn't Overeem also win the World heavyweight Mma championship and Dream or Strikeforce last year? I'm not saying he's perfect or anything but it's going to be a fight. Hey maybe Lesner should fight in the K1 grand prix this year...... K1> Mma....

[OneSickPsycho]

What fights are you guys watching? I watched Overeem become the K1 champ..... Are you all serious? Lesner? Um didn't Overeem also win the World heavyweight Mma championship and Dream or Strikeforce last year? I'm not saying he's perfect or anything but it's going to be a fight. Hey maybe Lesner should fight in the K1 grand prix this year...... K1> Mma....

Here's the problem... Wrestling is known to nullify pretty much everything else... Especially pure striking... If Lesner was the type of fighter that ate punches and kept coming forward, I'd venture to say Overeem would have very little chance... Since Lesnar reacts horribly to getting hit, but is one of the very best pure wrestlers in HW MMA... It's a toss up. And then you factor in the fact that 'Reem has never faced a wrestler anywhere close to that caliber... Tough call.

Plus, I'd also be so bold as to say that the level of competition in K1 isnt necessarily comparable to MMA. As Chael Sonnen said, "I can discredit K1 with two words, 'Bob Sapp'."

[defector]

Since Lesnar reacts horribly to getting hit
This is why I think Overeem could win by KO. Lesnar still shows a tendency to shy away from getting hit. BUT if Lesnar comes out charging for the takedown from the bell, I think he stands a much better chance.

Either way, I am really looking forward to this fight. I actually think they should make a Super Heavyweight Division for guys like this. A human being having to cut weight to make a 265lb limit is mind boggling to me.

[OneSickPsycho]

This is why I think Overeem could win by KO. Lesnar still shows a tendency to shy away from getting hit. BUT if Lesnar comes out charging for the takedown from the bell, I think he stands a much better chance.

Either way, I am really looking forward to this fight. I actually think they should make a Super Heavyweight Division for guys like this. A human being having to cut weight to make a 265lb limit is mind boggling to me.

TKO certainly, but I doubt KO... Carwin and Cain both SMASHED him and couldn't KO him... 'Reem may be a bit more accurate than Carwin and more powerful than Cain, but Brock's got a HELL of a chin... he just panics when someone catches him...

And I think that will be Lesnar's game plan anyway... at least it should be... 'Reem has known cardio issues and Lesnar being the genetic freak he is, has amazing cardio for a guy his size... He should push the pace and bull rush him early... don't let him find his rhythm and either get him down or up against the cage...

And I HATE the idea of a SHW division... IMHO, since flyweights have just been added, the next weight class should be a cruiser weight... something between 205 and 265... like a 230 class or something. 9/10 current heavyweights could certainly make it... Regardless, the sport just doesn't warrant another big man division yet.

The competition beyond 205 just isn't deep enough so that skill/speed does not always overcome size/power... In all of the other divisions, with a couple of rare exceptions (Frankie Edgar), you have to be highly skilled AND cut weight to be competitive. This is especially true at 205... However, there are still HW fighters out there who should be fighting at 205... or even 185 (Fedor, Roy Nelson, etc IMHO)... You don't really see that very often in other divisions.

If they opened up a cruiser weight class now, the guys who'd fit there wouldn't necessarily benefit. JDS, Cain, etc could certainly make that weight, but why would they? The competition at HW would actually be easier... all the faster guys would be at 230 and all the slow fat guys would be at 265...

That's also my beef with the SHW class... I mean, do we really want to see two Butterbean's in there 95% of the time? Cause that's what you'd get... The HW division is just starting to get guys who are in peak physical condition, but most still gas early... SHW would be fun to watch for about 2min... then you'd have 2.5 more rounds of guys sucking wind and being ineffective... Like the fights in Denver - Browne/Broughton, Hunt/Rothwell - those fights could have been AWESOME if it wasn't for the lack of cardio combined with the altitude (WTF was UFC thinking - two HW fights in Denver????).

I'd say we'll be ready for a cruiser weight within 10 years as more high level athletes choose the path of MMA... SHW... I'm not sure we'll ever see that happen... If we did... guys like Lesnar wouldn't be in it... Why? Because Lesnar can comfortably make 265 AND amateur wrestling is based around that... I mean, sure you could probably find a few Shaq's around the world who would be interested, but not nearly enough to fill a division.

[Kaneman]

I've got Cerrone over Diaz and Lesnar over Reem.

[defector]

I've got Cerrone over Diaz and Lesnar over Reem.
I think you are correct.


To OSP's post, I think the idea of a cruiserweight division could be very good. I just don't think HW's should have to cut weight. If dude can perform @ 285, let 'em.

[OneSickPsycho]

I've got Cerrone over Diaz and Lesnar over Reem.

Yep, I agree.

I think you are correct.


To OSP's post, I think the idea of a cruiserweight division could be very good. I just don't think HW's should have to cut weight. If dude can perform @ 285, let 'em.

Yeah, but there's gotta be a limit...

Otherwise you'll get a guy like Shaq some day who's athletic and reasonbly skilled, fighting a guy who weighs 230lbs... Fuck that.

It's set up like amatuer wrestling and for now, it should be.

[OneSickPsycho]

Frank Mir agreeing with me:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-iole_mir_overeem_ufc122211

[defector]

Frank Mir agreeing with me:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-iole_mir_overeem_ufc122211

I guess that makes you right, then. :lol:
I actually had a response to your amateur wrestling weight class thought. When I was in college, the NCAA HW division was from 183 to 285lbs. I figured it may have been changed since then, but I was too lazy to google it. Maybe tomorrow....

[OneSickPsycho]

I guess that makes you right, then. :lol:
I actually had a response to your amateur wrestling weight class thought. When I was in college, the NCAA HW division was from 183 to 285lbs. I figured it may have been changed since then, but I was too lazy to google it. Maybe tomorrow....

Doesn't mean that I am right, just means that Frank Mir thinks so... :lol:

Yeah, NCAA is set up like that... Olympics is 211-264... What I was getting at was the fact that they are set up with a huge void from the previous weight class to the max of the HW class.

[Kaneman]

They'll just need a Super Heavy-weight division.....and an Absolute division too IMO!

[defector]

Frank Mir agreeing with me:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-iole_mir_overeem_ufc122211

Just read it:
Don't really disagree with any of that. All I'm saying, is if Overeem clips him, it could be lights out. Do I think it will happen? Damn, I hope not...

BTW, I don't really see Mir getting another big win in the HW division. I think breaking Nog's arm was the last for him.

[Corey]

Just read it:
Don't really disagree with any of that. All I'm saying, is if Overeem clips him, it could be lights out. Do I think it will happen? Damn, I hope not...

BTW, I don't really see Mir getting another big win in the HW division. I think breaking Nog's arm was the last for him.

Mir is streaky. Up until the submission, he looked slow, sloppy, and beaten. He doesn't seem to know if he wants to be light and fast or big and powerful. He's got a few more wins in him, but I don't see it being against any of the top tier fighters. He may be the gateway guy to test out the Strikeforce heavyweights after they fold their HW weight class and start moving them over to the UFC. He'll be a decent test to weed out the useless ones, but I don't think he's got a thing for Velazquez or Dos Santos, and I kinda feel that Lesnar would roll through him if Mir gets his rubber match he's been pushing for.

[OneSickPsycho]

They'll just need a Super Heavy-weight division.....and an Absolute division too IMO!

I definitely don't agree with SHW and not real fond of the absolute division idea either... if anything I think they should maybe do groupings of two weight classes into tournaments... FLY vs BW, FW vs LW, WW vs MW, LHW vs HW...

However, an open weight setup would work wonders for women's MMA.

Just read it:
Don't really disagree with any of that. All I'm saying, is if Overeem clips him, it could be lights out. Do I think it will happen? Damn, I hope not...

BTW, I don't really see Mir getting another big win in the HW division. I think breaking Nog's arm was the last for him.

:idk:... I think Mir can be competitive... he shouldn't be too cocky with his hands though... Nog was about 5 seconds away from a KO or TKO when like an idiot he went to the ground... I'd like to see Mir vs Cain... Heck, with the SF guys coming over there are a few matchups that would be very interesting for Mir... Barnett or Silva would be at the top of my list.

Mir is streaky. Up until the submission, he looked slow, sloppy, and beaten. He doesn't seem to know if he wants to be light and fast or big and powerful. He's got a few more wins in him, but I don't see it being against any of the top tier fighters. He may be the gateway guy to test out the Strikeforce heavyweights after they fold their HW weight class and start moving them over to the UFC. He'll be a decent test to weed out the useless ones, but I don't think he's got a thing for Velazquez or Dos Santos, and I kinda feel that Lesnar would roll through him if Mir gets his rubber match he's been pushing for.

I dunno... I think Velasquez would be an intriguing matchup, but otherwise I agree... he's a gatekeeper for the rest of his career.

[defector]

:idk:... I think Mir can be competitive Barnett or Silva would be at the top of my list.
I dunno... I think Velasquez would be an intriguing matchup, but otherwise I agree... he's a gatekeeper for the rest of his career.

There is no doubt, Mir has by far the best ground game of any HW now (or possibly ever). I just don't see many current top guys trying to play the sub game with him.
I would love to see Barnett vs anybody UFC right now, but I think he specifically wants a shot at Overeem first.

[OneSickPsycho]

There is no doubt, Mir has by far the best ground game of any HW now (or possibly ever). I just don't see many current top guys trying to play the sub game with him.
I would love to see Barnett vs anybody UFC right now, but I think he specifically wants a shot at Overeem first.

I dunno... Werdum is pretty fucking nasty on the ground... That'd be a hell of a matchup too...

This is hilarious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjM9DyMeN8M

[defector]

This is hilarious:


That's fucking great.
I'll have to go back and watch some Werdum fights. I really haven't seen much of him since he left the UFC.

[OneSickPsycho]

Shitting my pants with anticipation...

http://mmaaddicts.com/dann/ufc-141-lesnar-overeem/alistair-overeem.JPG

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2579421/135_Brock_Lesnar_large.jpg

[Sixxxxer]

I still can't believe a guy as big as lesnar Cuts to 265...He'll be close to 300 Tonight.

GO BROCK!!!

[Corey]

The one Friday PPV, and I have to work and miss most of it. Fuck.

Alright, picks anyway:

Lesnar
Cerrone
Hendricks
Matyushenko
Hettes


Hopefully I'll be out of work in time to catch Diaz Cerrone. If typical Fitch shows up and Hendricks can't nullify his wrestling, that'll buy me about 20 to 25 minutes, depending on how long the entrances and post fight interviews go.

[OneSickPsycho]

I don't think he's that big anymore... He'll be closer to 280 tonight... Press conference a couple weeks back he said he was at 278. Still a God damned fucking monster...

[OneSickPsycho]

Agree with your picks except the last two... I think both Pham and Gustuffson take UD's...

[Kaneman]

I'm pulling hard for Hendricks since he trains at my gym on Thursday morning pro-class. Pretty cool getting to roll with a guy you know is going to be on PPV! He's a great wrestler but doesn't seem to have much of a bottom game.

WAR HENDRICKS!!!!!!

[Sixxxxer]

Fucking Monster Aside....That's it for Lesnar's MMA Career!! That shot to the liver looked nasty...I'm thinking he second guessed his life at that current moment, Overeem took down a beast.

On that note, GO GSP!!

[derf]

Fucking Monster Aside....That's it for Lesnar's MMA Career!! That shot to the liver looked nasty...I'm thinking he second guessed his life at that current moment, Overeem took down a beast.

On that note, GO GSP!!

Lesnar was over hyped from day 1

[Amber Lamps]

Lesnar was over hyped from day 1

Yep, I'm serving crow all day to the haters!!!!:lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

ONSSP called while he was walking out... Lesnar was done before he even walked out. He didn't look right even before the fight started. I will eat my crow gladly... Fantastic night of fights.

[Corey]

The Hendricks fight was my favorite. So glad that boring, delusional idiot Fitch got his fucking bell rung. The only thing that would have been sweeter is if Mazagati slapped on a guillotine when Fitch started trying to wrestle him.

[Amber Lamps]

ONSSP called while he was walking out... Lesnar was done before he even walked out. He didn't look right even before the fight started. I will eat my crow gladly... Fantastic night of fights.

CAW!!!:lol:

I told you guys.... I've watched the 'Reem for years now and I'm telling you, the kid is no joke! Every time I watch him fight, he gets better. You all discount Strikeforce, Dream and K1 but when you win all 3 championships, that has to count for something...:wink: I guess Allister won't be taken seriously in this country until he becomes a WWE champion....:lol:

Oh and please with the, "Lesnar didn't look right" stuff... If I had a nickel for every time that's been said after someone's favorite fighter got his ass kicked...:lol:

[Corey]

Overeem beat Lesnar fair and square. Lesnar tried to do the standup game, and his standup blows. I think him retiring is the best thing for him. He doesn't need the money, he's got nothing he needs to prove, and he's just too late to the game. He did extremely well with very little experience, but there have been enough fights now that people have him pegged.

That said, Overeem is still overrated. The competition he has faced in his past ten fights are shit, Verdum aside. If he does what he's done to them to fighters in the UFC, I'll happily change my opinion on him. As of now, the caliber of fighter he's faced has been mostly low to medium tier.

[OneSickPsycho]

CAW!!!:lol:

I told you guys.... I've watched the 'Reem for years now and I'm telling you, the kid is no joke! Every time I watch him fight, he gets better. You all discount Strikeforce, Dream and K1 but when you win all 3 championships, that has to count for something...:wink: I guess Allister won't be taken seriously in this country until he becomes a WWE champion....:lol:

Oh and please with the, "Lesnar didn't look right" stuff... If I had a nickel for every time that's been said after someone's favorite fighter got his ass kicked...:lol:

Just calling like I see it... Lesnar was beaten before he stepped into the cage... Not sure what was going in physically, but mentally he wasn't there... Maybe his illness, maybe he realized he was in over his head... Who knows... Either way he got his ass handed to him...

[Amber Lamps]

Just calling like I see it... Lesnar was beaten before he stepped into the cage... Not sure what was going in physically, but mentally he wasn't there... Maybe his illness, maybe he realized he was in over his head... Who knows... Either way he got his ass handed to him...

Aw you're no fun.... Come on where are all the guys that called for a Lesnar walk away?

[Triple]

Aw you're no fun.... Come on where are all the guys that called for a Lesnar walk away?

I have never liked Lesnar. That said, the Lesnar that smashed Mir at UFC 100 probably would have done the same to Overeem last night. That was his last impressive performance, and not coincidentally, his last fight before dealing with diverticulitis. He always talks the talk pre-fight, but in the cage his confidence hasn't been the same since July 2009.

I'm glad Overeem took it as easily as he did, but I don't think he'll take the title from dos Santos.

[Corey]

I have never liked Lesnar. That said, the Lesnar that smashed Mir at UFC 100 probably would have done the same to Overeem last night. That was his last impressive performance, and not coincidentally, his last fight before dealing with diverticulitis. He always talks the talk pre-fight, but in the cage his confidence hasn't been the same since July 2009.

I'm glad Overeem took it as easily as he did, but I don't think he'll take the title from dos Santos.

I'm surprised Lesnar even came back. I've seen people who deal with diverticulitis and it really kicks your ass (and removes sections of it). Having a foot of colon removed and having to shit in a bag while you recover doesn't seem like something that would motivate anyone to leave the bed, let alone jump back into MMA.

[Triple]

In other news, Fedor beat the shit out of Ishii this morning.

[Corey]

In other news, Fedor beat the shit out of Ishii this morning.

Snore. Fedor's prime is long past. He's back to fighting chumps. What a surprise. Maybe next he can fight Ken Shamrock or Tank Abbott.

[Triple]

Snore. Fedor's prime is long past. He's back to fighting chumps. What a surprise. Maybe next he can fight Ken Shamrock or Tank Abbott.

Agree that he's past his prime, but I believe today's Fedor would beat today's Lesnar.

Fedor's management screwed his chances with the UFC a long time ago. If he wants to stay active, who else is there for him to fight? Monson has beaten some of the UFC's top guys in the past and many consider Ishii Japan's only legitimate prospect at LHW and HW. Lumping either guy in with Shamrock or Abbott is a stretch.

Ishii looked TINY this morning. Probably due to his ambitions at LHW, but he looked 30 pounds lighter than when he beat LeBanner last NYE.

[Corey]

Agree that he's past his prime, but I believe today's Fedor would beat today's Lesnar.

Fedor's management screwed his chances with the UFC a long time ago. If he wants to stay active, who else is there for him to fight? Monson has beaten some of the UFC's top guys in the past and many consider Ishii Japan's only legitimate prospect at LHW and HW. Lumping either guy in with Shamrock or Abbott is a stretch.

Ishii looked TINY this morning. Probably due to his ambitions at LHW, but he looked 30 pounds lighter than when he beat LeBanner last NYE.

Agreed that his management ruined his UFC shot. I think they did more damage than that. They've used Fedor's name to pad their bank accounts at every given opportunity and squandered any chance of turning him into a hugely bankable name in the process. They've tarnished his reputation by steering him away from true competition in pursuit of their own financial gains. I'd almost be willing to bet that Fedor doesn't have the option of quitting, even if he wants to. M1 has him by the balls and will use him until he's of no value. Fedor may still be tough, but he's falling way behind the pack by not fighting competitive fighters. Ishii may be a lot of things, but he's not UFC caliber, probably not even Strikeforce. The heavyweight division is weak everywhere, but the further from UFC you get, the more the talent drops off. Monson had his day, but he's in the same boat that Tim Sylvia and Andre Arlovski were in when they fought Fedor. They were past their prime and on the downside of name recognition. M1 will continue to mine those opportunities to keep Fedor as financial relevant as they can for as long as possible, and the mystique of Fedor will continue to disappear.

[Triple]

The heavyweight division is weak everywhere, but the further from UFC you get, the more the talent drops off. Monson had his day, but he's in the same boat that Tim Sylvia and Andre Arlovski were in when they fought Fedor. They were past their prime and on the downside of name recognition.

I've said this many times, but both Sylvia and Arlovski were top 5 when Fedor beat them. They fell off the map after getting stomped, which seems to happen to every recent Fedor opponent (win or lose) not named Dan Henderson.

He's proven enough in his career; I'll continue to watch his fights whether or not they are in the UFC and regardless of the level of his competition.

Back to UFC 141: can ANYONE stand with the Diaz brothers? Is there really no answer to the Stockton Slap?

[Corey]

Back to UFC 141: can ANYONE stand with the Diaz brothers? Is there really no answer to the Stockton Slap?

I think Nate is far more beatable than Nick. Nick is just a fucking brute. He can shrug off a shitload more than Nate. Not that Nate's bad, but he's looked more up and down across his career so far. Nick is just a tough bastard. I don't like either of them, but they fight. If they'd drop the thug bullshit and the fart sniffing faces, I'd like them infinitely more. Won't change them stomping people's asses, naturally.

[Porkchop]

I've said this many times, but both Sylvia and Arlovski were top 5 when Fedor beat them. They fell off the map after getting stomped, which seems to happen to every recent Fedor opponent (win or lose) not named Dan Henderson.

He's proven enough in his career; I'll continue to watch his fights whether or not they are in the UFC and regardless of the level of his competition.

Back to UFC 141: can ANYONE stand with the Diaz brothers? Is there really no answer to the Stockton Slap?

Two more inches closer on Cowboy's ankle last night and Diaz would have been night night. Diaz got tired and sloppy. He burned himself out way too early with all those punches.