what, no more strip clubs w/ govt' $, WTF!!!

[RACER X]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- If welfare recipients want to dole out the dollar bills at a strip club, they'd better make sure it's not government money ... at least if a bill in Congress becomes law.

The House last week overwhelmingly passed legislation that would require states to ban the ability to access government benefits at strip clubs, liquor stores and casinos.

The benefit program in question is Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), formerly known as welfare. TANF provides cash assistance to working poor families -- often through an electronic benefit transfer card that can be used like a debit card. The money is meant to be spent on food, rent and other necessities.

Some recipients' use of their TANF benefits were called into question after media reports found the cards were being swiped at ATMs in strip clubs, liquor stores and casinos. Some recipients were also accessing their benefits out of state, including in Las Vegas casinos, at shops in Hawaii and on cruise ships, according to the reports.

The bill would force states to develop policies to prevent this from happening.

"This legislation stops waste, fraud, and abuse within the welfare program," said Rep. Charles Boustany, Jr., a Louisiana Republican. "It protects the public interest by ensuring money meant to help Americans get back on their feet is used for that very purpose."

Advocates for the low-income, however, said the legislation isn't really needed and that Congress has more important issues to focus on.

"Of all the things Congress needs to be dealing with, that this is a priority seems pretty strange," said Elizabeth Lower-Basch, senior policy analyst at CLASP, adding that several states have already adopted such rules.

[shmike]

My wife and I have debit cards for our HSA (Health Savings Account).

It will work at a doctor's office or pharmacy because they are approved medical vendors.

It won't work at a gas station or resturant because they are not approved medical vendors.

Private sector FTW.

[Trip]

My wife and I have debit cards for our HSA (Health Savings Account).

It will work at a doctor's office or pharmacy because they are approved medical vendors.

It won't work at a gas station or resturant because they are not approved medical vendors.

Private sector FTW.

I am a federal employee, I have have the same HSA card. FWIW

[shmike]

I am a federal employee, I have have the same HSA card. FWIW

Issued by a private company.

[Trip]

Issued by a private company.

I think the only federal employees that are on healthcare that isn't private is military and probably the politicians themselves.

[shmike]

I think the only federal employees that are on healthcare that isn't private is military and probably the politicians themselves.

My point was that private providers thought of restricted use cards years ago.

It should have been done from the beginning on the welfare cards.

Seriously, have you seen the usage fees charged at a casino or strip club ATM? Talk about government waste!

[derf]

My point was that private providers thought of restricted use cards years ago.

It should have been done from the beginning on the welfare cards.

Seriously, have you seen the usage fees charged at a casino or strip club ATM? Talk about government waste!

It was done back in the day when they gave you a paper voucher that was only redeemable at food stores, then they went ahead and turned it into a credit card.

But... I remember using food stamps and WIC credits and other such government programs as a kid and trading them in for cash, $.65 on the $1. It is still going to be just as easy to trade the credit card for cash

[EpyonXero]

My wife and I have debit cards for our HSA (Health Savings Account).

It will work at a doctor's office or pharmacy because they are approved medical vendors.

It won't work at a gas station or resturant because they are not approved medical vendors.

Private sector FTW.

Ive never used either card but Im betting its easier to tell the difference (electronically) between a gas station and a doctors office transaction than an ATM at a 7-11 and and ATM at a strip club, especially when both ATMs could be the same make and model.

[OneSickPsycho]

How about not ATM use at all? Where the fuck do you need cash for the essentials these days anyway?

[JARVIS518]

It was done back in the day when they gave you a paper voucher that was only redeemable at food stores, then they went ahead and turned it into a credit card.

But... I remember using food stamps and WIC credits and other such government programs as a kid and trading them in for cash, $.65 on the $1. It is still going to be just as easy to trade the credit card for cash

when i lived in florida i would have ppl all the time ask if i was paying in cash because they wanted to pay for my groceries with their welfare card in exchange for cash.

[JARVIS518]

How about not ATM use at all? Where the fuck do you need cash for the essentials these days anyway?

they cant be used at an ATM for welfare cash but most cards are linked to social security accounts also which they can withdraw from at atms

[tommymac]

Most of the delis/bodegas by the hospital have signs up for what they can and cant use the ebt cards for.

[RACER X]

:lol

[askmrjesus]

"This legislation stops waste, fraud, and abuse within the welfare program," said Rep. Charles Boustany, Jr., a Louisiana Republican.

Although it may help curtail abuse, this legislation doesn't stop waste or fraud. It just helps people like Ed feel better about themselves when they call the fire dept to unlock their front doors.

If Welfare Bob gets $100 per week, it costs tax payers $100 per week, regardless of what Bob spends the money on.

JC

[EpyonXero]

"This legislation stops waste, fraud, and abuse within the welfare program," said Rep. Charles Boustany, Jr., a Louisiana Republican.

Although it may help curtail abuse, this legislation doesn't stop waste or fraud. It just helps people like Ed feel better about themselves when they call the fire dept to unlock their front doors.

If Welfare Bob gets $100 per week, it costs tax payers $100 per week, regardless of what Bob spends the money on.

JC

Yep. Plus the added cost of implementing a new vendor verification system and enforcing and updating it.

This is like the Florida welfare/drug test law. Only like 2% of recipients have failed the drug test and the state has a net loss on the program.

[RACER X]

how long was it implemented? thought fla judge stopped the drug tessting

[askmrjesus]

Yep. Plus the added cost of implementing a new vendor verification system and enforcing and updating it.

This is like the Florida welfare/drug test law. Only like 2% of recipients have failed the drug test and the state has a net loss on the program.

Exactly. This bill will just increase our taxes.

I should amend my original post. For every $100 Bob gets, we probably spend $110, when you figure in the cost of administrating the welfare program.

If Rep. Charles Boustany, Jr. wants to save us money, he should spend more time figuring out a way to get people off of welfare in the first place, instead of demonizing the poor.

JC

[Kaneman]

Goddamn don't they ever do anything worthwhile? (The govt)

Lets also make sure people who get welfare can't: watch TV, read books, take hot showers, eat nutritionally dense foods, wear clothing, surf the internet, surf the ocean, have pets or use soft toilet paper.

[fatbuckRTO]

Goddamn don't they ever do anything worthwhile? (The govt)

Lets also make sure people who get welfare can't: watch TV, read books, take hot showers, eat nutritionally dense foods, wear clothing, surf the internet, surf the ocean, have pets or use soft toilet paper.
They are, of course, free to do any or all of those things. You are also free to pay for it for them. I don't want to.

Welfare exists, as I understand it, to provide for subsistance. It does not exist to provide TV, books, internet, surf boards, or pets. However, if someone is making enough off of welfare to visit strip clubs on welfare money, I'm assuming they would also be making enough to eat nutritionally dense foods, wear clothing, or use (reasonably) soft toilet paper. Assuming they chose to do that vice stuffing bills down g-strings.

I see absolutely no problem in taking reasonable precautions to prevent my tax dollars from funding young Tiffany's "college education." There are Pell Grants for that...

[fatbuckRTO]

Exactly. This bill will just increase our taxes.

I should amend my original post. For every $100 Bob gets, we probably spend $110, when you figure in the cost of administrating the welfare program.

If Rep. Charles Boustany, Jr. wants to save us money, he should spend more time figuring out a way to get people off of welfare in the first place, instead of demonizing the poor.

JCI believe the issue Mr. Boustany is trying to address is: if they have enough disposable cash to visit strip clubs with welfare money, what in the hell are they doing on welfare in the first place? Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a simple matter of removing from the program those who aren't really in need. I'm guessing the next best thing is to make it more difficult to abuse the program.

Placing restrictions on tax payer dollars isn't demonizing anyone, it's goddamn common sense. Seems to me we could do with a few more restrictions on tax payer dollars in this country.

[pauldun170]

One day I was driving along and someone passed me on the double yellow.
I complained to a friend.
That friend told the story to someone else and the the person responded that someone could have been killed.
That person told the clerk at the deli that the road is dangerous and people drive crazy on the road all the time.
The deli clerk recalled the story of how 1 people died in a car accident on the road awhile back.
A person overhearing the story stated "I don't feel safe driving anymore especially with all the traffic. It would be so much better off everyone would be green and ride bicycles back and forth" so a letter to a legislator was written.
The following year the legislator announce a 50 million dollar project to re engineer the road, add red light cameras, a concrete center island, bike lanes and also widen the road to add additional lanes.

A local cop quickly looks up records for the road and noticed one drunk driving accident from 10 years ago and nothing else. He does recall the dirty look that guy gave him last year when he passed him on a double yellow rushing to get to work at the precinct.


Moral of the story is...I like looking at womans asses.

[pauldun170]

I believe the issue Mr. Boustany is trying to address is: if they have enough disposable cash to visit strip clubs with welfare money, what in the hell are they doing on welfare in the first place? Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a simple matter of removing from the program those who aren't really in need. I'm guessing the next best thing is to make it more difficult to abuse the program.

Placing restrictions on tax payer dollars isn't demonizing anyone, it's goddamn common sense. Seems to me we could do with a few more restrictions on tax payer dollars in this country.


Who exactly is "they?"
Is this legislation done in response to a study?

[fatbuckRTO]

Who exactly is "they?"
Is this legislation done in response to a study?
Probably an internet poll.

Congress spent the better part of a year on hearings for steroid use in major league baseball. I'll take "restricting of welfare money from use in entertainment" any day of the week, whether it was one guy who told his friend about a wild Saturday night or 100,000 drunk partiers a day beating on their congressman's door demanding a strip show with welfare debit cards in hand.

Do we need a study? Should it be a double-blind with placebo and a control group? Or do we identify a shortcoming in the program, correct it, and move the fuck on?

[Switch]

My wife and I have debit cards for our HSA (Health Savings Account).

It will work at a doctor's office or pharmacy because they are approved medical vendors.

It won't work at a gas station or resturant because they are not approved medical vendors.

Private sector FTW.

Which means it works at Wal-Mart. Which means, you can buy lots of electronics.

[pauldun170]

Probably an internet poll.



:lol

[pauldun170]

Couple of interesting points
“It’s an expensive thing to do. They’re going to re-program every ATM machine? You’re putting an expensive burden on local and state governments. What’s the real purpose? Is there a huge problem with people paying for lap dancing with TANF cards?,” said Democrat Rep. Jerrold Nadler who represents parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn, New York.

“Because a person cashes a check in a casino doesn’t mean they are going to use it in the casino. There’s no law that says that a person who cashes the check across the street at a bank can’t just do that and walk into a casino,” said Rep. Don Payne, a Democrat who represents Newark. N.J.

“I don’t think just because you’re on welfare that you should never drink a beer,” said Rep. Frank. “It’s impossible to enforce and it’s a violation of states rights,” Barney Frank said. “If you want to say people who are on welfare can’t have entertainment that’s one thing but why should they be able to go to a movie but not to a naked person dancing — I don’t make a moral distinction there,” Frank added.

[Homeslice]

Assuming, in a magical world, that these new programs could actually stop people from spending it on beer, entertainment, etc ......I'd be all for it.

[EpyonXero]

Couple of interesting points

That politician seems to have common sense. Interesting.

[askmrjesus]

I believe the issue Mr. Boustany is trying to address is: if they have enough disposable cash to visit strip clubs with welfare money, what in the hell are they doing on welfare in the first place? Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a simple matter of removing from the program those who aren't really in need. I'm guessing the next best thing is to make it more difficult to abuse the program.

Placing restrictions on tax payer dollars isn't demonizing anyone, it's goddamn common sense. Seems to me we could do with a few more restrictions on tax payer dollars in this country.

I disagree. It is demonizing the poor. This guy is playing on emotions, rather than facts. Your taxes are too high. My taxes are too high. Solution: blame the poor.

Our taxes aren't too high because X% of welfare recipients blow some of their (our) money on hookers and booze. They're too high, because our government refuses to get its collective shit together. This is just a distraction from the issues politicians don't want to talk about, a little red meat to toss to the torch and pitch fork crowd. Its bullshit, and honestly, I'm surprised you're falling for it.

Show me a cost/benefit analysis, that says this legislation will lower my taxes, and I'll be all over it. Until then, Welfare Bob can slurp vodka out of stripper's navels all day, for all the fuck I care.

JC

[Homeslice]

OK fine, so it's not even close to being a major election issue, but even if this program doesn't save any money at all, what is wrong with preventing people from spending money on things they shouldn't be spending money on? The value of a government program is not measured solely by how much money it saved or collected.

Also, by preventing people from spending welfare on inappropriate things, maybe they will become more motivated to get off welfare, thus saving everyone money. Even if not, who cares. I'm all for "owning" people who try to abuse my taxpayer dollars, as long as the net cost of doing so isn't huge.

This program might be poorly executed, but the intent is good, IMO.

As another example, why is nobody complaining about the expense of running the SEC? Should we only enforce on rich people?

[Kaneman]

I disagree. It is demonizing the poor. This guy is playing on emotions, rather than facts. Your taxes are too high. My taxes are too high. Solution: blame the poor.

Our taxes aren't too high because X% of welfare recipients blow some of their (our) money on hookers and booze. They're too high, because our government refuses to get its collective shit together. This is just a distraction from the issues politicians don't want to talk about, a little red meat to toss to the torch and pitch fork crowd. Its bullshit, and honestly, I'm surprised you're falling for it.

Show me a cost/benefit analysis, that says this legislation will lower my taxes, and I'll be all over it. Until then, Welfare Bob can slurp vodka out of stripper's navels all day, for all the fuck I care.

JC

You rock.

[askmrjesus]

Assuming, in a magical world, that these new programs could actually stop people from spending it on beer, entertainment, etc ......I'd be all for it.

Why?

People on welfare owe us taxpayers a life devoid of pleasure? What, they're not miserable enough for you already?

JC

[Homeslice]

Why?

People on welfare owe us taxpayers a life devoid of pleasure? What, they're not miserable enough for you already?

JC

They knew the rules when they took the checks :shrug:

[fatbuckRTO]

Why?

People on welfare owe us taxpayers a life devoid of pleasure? What, they're not miserable enough for you already?

JC
I think quite a few people on welfare have proven very publicly that they're not miserable at all. But to answer your first question, I believe people on welfare owe the taxpayers a genuine best effort to get off welfare as soon as possible.

I don't care if they go to a strip club, ball game, freaking Carribean cruise, or their local street walker. I just don't want them using welfare money on those things. Sure, better restrictions won't save us tax money. Welfare is a drop in the bucket in the first place, even if we could save money on it. It's the goddamn principle. I get just as outraged hearing about rich congressmen abusing tax money, and that's generally a drop in the bucket too (when used for things like coke parties or hiding dead hookers, or whatever it is congressmen do for fun these days).

[OneSickPsycho]

Why?

People on welfare owe us taxpayers a life devoid of pleasure? What, they're not miserable enough for you already?

JC

Um... yes.

If you can afford those things, you shouldn't be on welfare... Those are not necessities to sustain life and yet they can afford things like that, things that people who bust their ass working shitty jobs cannot afford... and they aren't doing shit for it? Yes I have a big fucking problem with that. What's the motivation to get off of welfare?

Perhaps I'm jaded... Working in call centers will do that.

I cannot tell you how many times I've had people request hours cuts or quit the job because 'they were making too much money so they're benefits would be cut'... Hell, I've sat through unemployment hearings in which the former rep has said they quit or got fired on purpose to ensure their benefits wouldn't be cut or so that they could get additional benefits. I've heard these motherfuckers BRAGGING about having their bills paid by the government allowing them to have extra cash to buy bags of weed and shots at the bar...

Meanwhile, there were people there who were genuinely struggling to get by and doing the EXACT opposite...

These were the people who busted their asses, worked as many hours as possible, and were ALWAYS concerned about their jobs... They didn't have money for iPhones, bags of weed, or to go out to eat and get drunk every night... they rode the bus, didn't have cell phones, and shopped at the thrift stores... However, they were busting their ass to make themselves a better life...

The next time I see someone swiping their EBT card while talking on the latest iPhone in the checkout line, I'm going to think of this thread... I guess people deserve a free fucking ride... A life devoid of pleasure? Pahfuckinglease... Welfare is not for allowing people to have whatever the fuck their little hearts desire... it's to keep people alive and give them a chance to get their shit in order.

[pauldun170]

http://anfdata.urban.org/databooks/Databook%202010%20FINAL.pdf
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=936

I'm going to just toss this out there...
If you qualify for TANF you can't afford "entertainment".
If you spend on "entertainment" then you are forgoing things like "food".

Also, TANF recipients can only collect for a fixed amount of time but typically most recipients do not collect for long.

[Kaneman]

Um... yes.

If you can afford those things, you shouldn't be on welfare... Those are not necessities to sustain life and yet they can afford things like that, things that people who bust their ass working shitty jobs cannot afford... and they aren't doing shit for it? Yes I have a big fucking problem with that. What's the motivation to get off of welfare?

Perhaps I'm jaded... Working in call centers will do that.

I cannot tell you how many times I've had people request hours cuts or quit the job because 'they were making too much money so they're benefits would be cut'... Hell, I've sat through unemployment hearings in which the former rep has said they quit or got fired on purpose to ensure their benefits wouldn't be cut or so that they could get additional benefits. I've heard these motherfuckers BRAGGING about having their bills paid by the government allowing them to have extra cash to buy bags of weed and shots at the bar...

Meanwhile, there were people there who were genuinely struggling to get by and doing the EXACT opposite...

These were the people who busted their asses, worked as many hours as possible, and were ALWAYS concerned about their jobs... They didn't have money for iPhones, bags of weed, or to go out to eat and get drunk every night... they rode the bus, didn't have cell phones, and shopped at the thrift stores... However, they were busting their ass to make themselves a better life...

The next time I see someone swiping their EBT card while talking on the latest iPhone in the checkout line, I'm going to think of this thread... I guess people deserve a free fucking ride... A life devoid of pleasure? Pahfuckinglease... Welfare is not for allowing people to have whatever the fuck their little hearts desire... it's to keep people alive and give them a chance to get their shit in order.

U mad bro?

[OneSickPsycho]

U mad bro?

Absolutely. I hate hearing garbage about these people deserving something that others who are out their busting their ass cannot get.

[pauldun170]

Um... yes.

If you can afford those things, you shouldn't be on welfare... Those are not necessities to sustain life and yet they can afford things like that, things that people who bust their ass working shitty jobs cannot afford... and they aren't doing shit for it? Yes I have a big fucking problem with that. What's the motivation to get off of welfare?

Perhaps I'm jaded... Working in call centers will do that.

I cannot tell you how many times I've had people request hours cuts or quit the job because 'they were making too much money so they're benefits would be cut'... Hell, I've sat through unemployment hearings in which the former rep has said they quit or got fired on purpose to ensure their benefits wouldn't be cut or so that they could get additional benefits. I've heard these motherfuckers BRAGGING about having their bills paid by the government allowing them to have extra cash to buy bags of weed and shots at the bar...

Meanwhile, there were people there who were genuinely struggling to get by and doing the EXACT opposite...

These were the people who busted their asses, worked as many hours as possible, and were ALWAYS concerned about their jobs... They didn't have money for iPhones, bags of weed, or to go out to eat and get drunk every night... they rode the bus, didn't have cell phones, and shopped at the thrift stores... However, they were busting their ass to make themselves a better life...

The next time I see someone swiping their EBT card while talking on the latest iPhone in the checkout line, I'm going to think of this thread... I guess people deserve a free fucking ride... A life devoid of pleasure? Pahfuckinglease... Welfare is not for allowing people to have whatever the fuck their little hearts desire... it's to keep people alive and give them a chance to get their shit in order.
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmhyf8ycya1qcexbyo1_250.jpg