View Full Version : Ah shit. I'm in trouble now.
Phenix_Rider
08-04-2008, 10:01 PM
Signed up for my first track day and I'm nervous as all hell! :( September 6th at Beaverun. Back protector is here, pants, jacket, boots, gloves, helmet. Track wheels are all set up with gumball tires. Plastics should be here this week. Have to add some sort of backup closure on the pants, since they like to unsnap when I have to grip the tank or use my abs at all. Even worse with the back armor under the waistband. Have to fit and paint the track skins when they do arrive. Talk about butterflies...
You will be fine, get on youtube and pull up some metal and rock out with your cock out.
JoJoYZF
08-04-2008, 10:20 PM
You will be fine, get on youtube and pull up some metal and rock out with your cock out.
Dont be encouraging dudes to whip their dicks out. Theres some on here thatll do it
NONE_too_SOFT
08-04-2008, 10:21 PM
Dont be encouraging dudes to whip their dicks out. Theres some on here thatll do it
HEY-YO
JoJoYZF
08-04-2008, 10:21 PM
HEY-YO
Speak of the devil
ceo012384
08-04-2008, 11:32 PM
Signed up for my first track day and I'm nervous as all hell! :( September 6th at Beaverun. Back protector is here, pants, jacket, boots, gloves, helmet. Track wheels are all set up with gumball tires. Plastics should be here this week. Have to add some sort of backup closure on the pants, since they like to unsnap when I have to grip the tank or use my abs at all. Even worse with the back armor under the waistband. Have to fit and paint the track skins when they do arrive. Talk about butterflies...
You've got nothing to be nervous about. Just relax. You don't need to paint the plastics, just fit them up. Even HAVING those plastics in the first place is a big step over what most people do.
I actually posted some advice on another forum to a first-time track dayer, it should all apply to you:
The main problem you're going to have is INFORMATION OVERLOAD.
There is so fucking much to learn. Just go in with an attitude that caters to learning and soaking in the information. Accept the fact that you know absolutely nothing, and you suck at controlling your motorcycle. And I'm not saying that to be a dick.
A couple little tips:
1. Get a good night's sleep beforehand, and eat a good breakfast.
2. Bring too much stuff. Tools, energy bars, snacks, extra gas can and gas, spare oil and filter.... ANYTHING you might need that could ruin your day if you don't have it. Also, if you have spare parts (clip ons, levers, footpegs, frame slider pucks, etc.), bring those so you won't be done for the day if you have even a minor dump (like a lowside on pit road... trust me it's happened).
3. Eat some breakfast and get there early, find a spot to pit, and try to relax. You'll be nervous, and it's normal.
4. Listen to EVERYTHING the control riders and instructors say, especially in the beginning of the day when they'll be telling you track procedure and (sometimes) they will take very slow laps with the beginners to show them 'the line'. Ask them midday if you can get some personal follow-time and some help. They're there to help you.
5. Pay attention, keep your head up, look ahead. Develop your reference points. If you don't pick spots for WHERE you want to do things lap after lap, you'll never be consistent and you'll never get fast.
This may be the most important one:
6. YOU SUCK. YOU'RE SLOW. Get used to it. Don't go in there thinking you're going to ride balls out... because trust me, someone out there is on a 20 year old 50 horsepower bike and they can get around the track faster than you. Don't wail the shit out of your bike on the straight and then park it in all the turns... use the straight to collect your thoughts and think ahead. When I'm coming out of the last corner I'm already thinking about my brake on/off points into the first turn, and when I'm rolling off the throttle on the straight I'm already thinking about my drive out of the first corner... it helps to slow things down for you.
7. Yes, I know you want to drag knee. If you 'try' to drag knee, you're doing it wrong. You'll hang off like a monkey and scuff your knee puck and be very happy about it... but it doesn't mean shit. Do it that way if you want just to do it once... but after that, concentrate on being smooth and fast, and positioning your body properly. ASK an instructor about body positioning... most people hang their ass off but keep their torso over the bike. That's a no-no.
8. RELAX. No, really, RELAX YOUR BODY. Keep your upper body loose, or if you start to push limits, you'll crash. It is absolutely imperative that you don't have pressure on the handlebars mid-corner. You WILL crash. I've done it.
These are just a few tips off the top of my head. I am by no means a good rider or a fast rider... but these are my tips that I think will help you get the most out of your first track day. There's more.... but like I said... concentrate on being smooth, and being alert and soaking in all the information you can. Fast comes later.
Oh, and by the way... you'll have a fucking blast. Look in your wallet right now.... that's the most money you're ever going to have again.
And one thing I forgot is to bring some sunscreen for the back of your neck, and rain gear in case it rains.
You'll be fine... and you'll be hooked.
t-homo
08-04-2008, 11:59 PM
Congrats man. I can't wait till next summer when I have some money for one.
No Worries
08-05-2008, 12:29 AM
Years of practice is the best way to ensure your performance on the track. But since you don't have that, take a look at Lee Parks' book called Total Control. It has a chapter on everything you need to perform well on the track and on the street.
Mr Lefty
08-05-2008, 12:35 AM
you might look at taking your pants to an alterations shop to see if they can increase the waist a half size or so...
be bad to go down on your first track day and then make it worse by sliding off the track with your pants around your ankles :lol:
FT BSTRD
08-05-2008, 12:51 AM
Your skills will improve more in one track day than they will in weeks or months of riding.
I'm assuming you will go novice group this track day. They will ease you into everything.
Caution, track days are like crack.
Phenix_Rider
08-05-2008, 06:37 AM
Yup, beginner in NESBA. Read a bunch of books- Total Control, part of TOTW, several others I can't think of offhand. The pants fit great other than they're taking forever to break in- may have to soak them down and go for a ride. Just that the A* Track pants I have only have a zupper, a small velcro patch and a pathetic snap to hold them closed. Popping open is a common complaint with them. The group of local guys I'm going with are all experienced/talented riders. One just got bumped to I from A- unfortunately, he also totaled his track bike. They also have a couple control riders that like to hang around. Shouldn't be a problem getting some good advice on the spot.
Dont be encouraging dudes to whip their dicks out. Theres some on here thatll do it
I dont care if they do, it's the internet, we can't see them.
OneSickPsycho
08-05-2008, 09:07 AM
I dont care if they do, it's the internet, we can't see them.
Truth... 3/4 of my time spent on here I am totally naked.
marko138
08-05-2008, 12:19 PM
Have fun man. It's a blast.
Always remember...HOLD YOUR LINE. No matter how slow, just hold it. You don't want to frustrate the guy behind you because you can't hold a line. Fast or slow, early or late, hold that line.
the chi
08-05-2008, 02:11 PM
Ceo has it right on, as does DL.
You are going to be nervous. I am EVERY time, but once you get out there, you will feel your groove and get moving...if you dont feel it, get off the track. It's ok to take a break. Dont kill yourself the first day out.
More accidents happen cuz the riders head isnt in the right place than anything else out there. You wont have time to worry about paying the bills or anything else...focus on your teachers and remember your technique.
Techinique brings improvement and speed. Simply trying to haul ass without proper technique is like trying to take a test without reading the book. You wont get any better. As you improve, you speed up naturally.
And remember this, your tires will NOT be ready after a lap or 2, get a good 3-4 laps on your tires to get them warmed up before you decide to test yourself and your tires.
And most importantly - There will ALWAYS be someone faster and better than you. Learn from these people, dont get pissy or try to outdo your skill levels by trying to beat them.
marko138
08-05-2008, 02:34 PM
What Rae said is equally important. Make sure your tires are good and warm. I went slower than shit on the first couple laps to make sure I had sufficient heat in the tires. I'll be damned if I'm gonna crash b/c of cold tires. That is completely avoidable.
ceo012384
08-05-2008, 02:45 PM
What Rae said is equally important. Make sure your tires are good and warm. I went slower than shit on the first couple laps to make sure I had sufficient heat in the tires. I'll be damned if I'm gonna crash b/c of cold tires. That is completely avoidable.
Agreed.
However after I did that I was a huge pussy about getting my tires warm unnecessarily. Then afterwards as I got my speed up and became more relaxed I started to be able to really 'feel' when they were sticking, plus hard braking and accel gets them nice and hot.
Now I'm knee down in turn 6 when pit in is by turn 2 (and turn 5 isn't really a turn). After a little less than one lap I'm full out now...
That's with Corsa III's, btw. They heat up pretty fast.
marko138
08-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Agreed.
However after I did that I was a huge pussy about getting my tires warm unnecessarily. Then afterwards as I got my speed up and became more relaxed I started to be able to really 'feel' when they were sticking, plus hard braking and accel gets them nice and hot.
Now I'm knee down in turn 6 when pit in is by turn 2 (and turn 5 isn't really a turn). After a little less than one lap I'm full out now...
That's with Corsa III's, btw. They heat up pretty fast.
I've got Corsa III's on the Buell. No issues with heat up time. I'd go full deal jones on lap 2 with them....no question.
the chi
08-05-2008, 03:29 PM
by lap 3 on my PP's I am comfortable going full out and could manage lap 2, but for a total newb who cant feel the difference, those few laps could make or break him... Ive seen too many senseless crashes now for something silly like cold tires to even think about risking it and pushing too early...
Phenix_Rider
08-05-2008, 03:35 PM
by lap 3 on my PP's I am comfortable going full out and could manage lap 2, but for a total newb who cant feel the difference, those few laps could make or break him... Ive seen too many senseless crashes now for something silly like cold tires to even think about risking it and pushing too early...
Yep. I have Pirelli DOTs- never ridden on them. I'll take it slow. But even cold, they have to grip better than the sport-touring tread I'm used to.
Yep. I have Pirelli DOTs- never ridden on them. I'll take it slow. But even cold, they have to grip better than the sport-touring tread I'm used to.
Why did you go with DOTs? It takes a lot more to heat those up and you really got to be pushing it for them to reach ideal temp without tire warmers. Not the best choice for a first track day especially if you are in novice and spend a lot of time in the first few sessions not even heating the tires up.
the chi
08-05-2008, 03:49 PM
Why did you go with DOTs? It takes a lot more to heat those up and you really got to be pushing it for them to reach ideal temp without tire warmers. Not the best choice for a first track day especially if you are in novice and spend a lot of time in the first few sessions not even heating the tires up.
I agree sweetie, if you got DOT's def take it easy till at least midday or afternoon. In novice you wont be pushing nearly hard enough to warm them up and get them sticky.
Are they already broken in?
When I was running PP's I would turn it between 2 and 3. I always made sure to accelerate hard and brke hard during the first couple laps. Not lean as much but accelerate and brake fairly hard to heat 'em up. I run Pilot Races now and also tire warmers. I turn it on between lap 1 and 2 now.
the chi
08-05-2008, 03:59 PM
yeah the braking is good to warm, ive finally started using my front brakes myself and it made noticeable difference!
Phenix, im stoked I cant wait to hear how your day goes, and its a month away!
PPs heat up like nobodys business, 2 or 3 turns and they are good to go.
Phenix_Rider
08-05-2008, 04:56 PM
Why did you go with DOTs? It takes a lot more to heat those up and you really got to be pushing it for them to reach ideal temp without tire warmers. Not the best choice for a first track day especially if you are in novice and spend a lot of time in the first few sessions not even heating the tires up.
Because they were free from an ex-SV/now-Duc racer at work. I saw some at Carlisle that looked a lot worse off- blue/yellow discoloration and massive cold tearing- that were marked $200-250 a set. The ones I got seem to be in great shape for take-offs. I've been looking around for cheap tire warmers, but those bitches are all expensive.
yeah the braking is good to warm, ive finally started using my front brakes myself and it made noticeable difference!
Phenix, im stoked I cant wait to hear how your day goes, and its a month away!
:lol: You sound as excited as I am.
NONE_too_SOFT
08-05-2008, 05:46 PM
Why did you go with DOTs? It takes a lot more to heat those up and you really got to be pushing it for them to reach ideal temp without tire warmers. Not the best choice for a first track day especially if you are in novice and spend a lot of time in the first few sessions not even heating the tires up.
I agree sweetie, if you got DOT's def take it easy till at least midday or afternoon. In novice you wont be pushing nearly hard enough to warm them up and get them sticky.
Are they already broken in?
wow if he wasnt nervous before you guys really helped the situation.
They're still a soft compound, and will warm up just fine, just be sure by the end of the day you give it a little while before you start getting cocky.
It is summer and the track will be hot, so that'll help. I ran PR's without warmers one day and they were fine, I just took it a bit easier for the first few laps.
It is summer and the track will be hot, so that'll help. I ran PR's without warmers one day and they were fine, I just took it a bit easier for the first few laps.
Yeah, but you werent running novice where they keep your speed in check for the first few sessions. Rae said it was in a month and it's up north, so I say he will have to be extra careful in the colder morning sessions when they are keeping them in line and low on speed.
Do they have the option of renting tire warmers? If not, buy some.
NONE_too_SOFT
08-05-2008, 06:23 PM
Do they have the option of renting tire warmers? If not, buy some.
or just pick up some more tires, it'll cost you less.
He will be fine if he takes it easy on them, he just has to know he has to take it easy on those tires. Especially in the morning.
NONE_too_SOFT
08-05-2008, 06:28 PM
He will be fine if he takes it easy on them, he just has to know he has to take it easy on those tires. Especially in the morning.
thats what im tryin to say. they are designed for the track, just not for a novice rider. so long as he is cautious and isnt trying to break lap records he'll have a blast on em.
If he tries breaking lap records AFTER the initial 3-4 laps, he'll be fine.
NONE_too_SOFT
08-05-2008, 06:32 PM
If he tries breaking lap records AFTER the initial 3-4 laps, he'll be fine.
yea.....
dont try to break any track records, though... tires arent everything, i hear rider experience, track familiarity, and many other factors contribute to laps times. Just a rumor i've heard.
Plus the only shiny trophy you get at a track day is hopefully your bike in one piece at the end of the day.
Mr Lefty
08-05-2008, 07:29 PM
we dont' get trophy's? fuck that I'm out
we dont' get trophy's? fuck that I'm out
ok ok you can have a trophy, it's a nice cockmeat sandwich
Mr Lefty
08-05-2008, 07:36 PM
naw... I hear drewpy's bogarting all those...
t-homo
08-05-2008, 07:47 PM
ok ok you can have a trophy, it's a nice cockmeat sandwich
Great movie reference. George W and the square root of three were the best parts.
Great movie reference. George W and the square root of three were the best parts.
W was awesome in that movie.
NONE_too_SOFT
08-05-2008, 07:55 PM
Great movie reference. George W and the square root of three were the best parts.
nph gettin shot = priceless
nph gettin shot = priceless
the branding was better
Phenix_Rider
08-05-2008, 08:39 PM
Never thought of renting them...hmmm. Just mosey on over to my other forum and see if anyone knows about it...
Never thought of renting them...hmmm. Just mosey on over to my other forum and see if anyone knows about it...
ask to borrow someones
Phenix_Rider
08-05-2008, 08:52 PM
ask to borrow someones
err... these are all 120V right? Don't think there's power in the pits. :idk: Pretty sure no one else has a generator or warmers. Most of the guys I'm going with are running Corsa IIIs.
the chi
08-05-2008, 10:50 PM
i missed the part where they were take off race tires, I thought they were brand new...if they are take offs, and ridden by a racer already, they are good and broken in, just need to be warmed up. Give it a couple laps and you should be straight hun, just dont go out there trying to be Rossi...
I dont run warmers yet, I'd wait a few track days before I invested in those, but if someone has them to loan, go for it...
Kyle is the prime example why most of us don't need race tires or warmers. He ran regular PPs that were pretty shabby and stayed with the advanced guys. Hell he ran with the instructors at Ed Bargy Race School on the same tires not too long after. None of us need race tires yet unless you actually intend on racing. That's why I am sticking with Corsa IIIs unless I can get a good deal on DOTs.
Phenix_Rider
08-06-2008, 07:34 AM
Kyle is the prime example why most of us don't need race tires or warmers. He ran regular PPs that were pretty shabby and stayed with the advanced guys. Hell he ran with the instructors at Ed Bargy Race School on the same tires not too long after. None of us need race tires yet unless you actually intend on racing. That's why I am sticking with Corsa IIIs unless I can get a good deal on DOTs.
Yep. I was looking for a good deal on anything sticky, then found these for nothing.
haha- Another guy that's going the 6th is running slicks and looking for someone with a generator to run warmers. Of course, I have no idea what bike he'll run, as he wadded up his ZX6R after he got bumped to A.
marko138
08-06-2008, 01:18 PM
Yep. I was looking for a good deal on anything sticky, then found these for nothing.
haha- Another guy that's going the 6th is running slicks and looking for someone with a generator to run warmers. Of course, I have no idea what bike he'll run, as he wadded up his ZX6R after he got bumped to A.
That bike was in rough shape.
ceo012384
08-07-2008, 04:20 PM
I run Pilot Races now and also tire warmers. I turn it on between lap 1 and 2 now.
If you're running warmers you should be able to go hot into the first turn, dude.
r!der
08-07-2008, 06:08 PM
Caution, track days are like crack.
True, be prepared...there's a good chance you will become a trackhead. Start saving money now while you can!
OreoGaborio
08-07-2008, 07:36 PM
Phenix, I think what a lot of guys have said here is great... there's a lot of good info shared in this thread from people who have been in the same position you're about to be in and there's really not a whole lot I can add because of it....
But here's two little bits of advice...
#1 - Remember... It's the same bike, the same rider, and the same pavement. The only thing that's changed is the environemnt... it's safer :)
#2 - Remember... You're not alone. As someone who's asked the question "Who's never ridden on the track before?" countless times in front of classrooms of beginner track riders over the last few years, at least 1/2 of the classroom will raise their hand.... Even AFTER we've come off the track from the follow-the-leader session, 1/2 of those people will raise their hands when asked the question a second time... I love doin that to em :lmao:
If you keep those two things in mind your nerves should stay settled enough for you to absorb all the info you need and ride safely.
HAVE FUN!!!
If you're running warmers you should be able to go hot into the first turn, dude.
Safe than sorry. There's a reason why they do a warm-up lap before all the GP races start. Because going 100% on tires that have had warmers only is not the best idea.
Safe than sorry. There's a reason why they do a warm-up lap before all the GP races start. Because going 100% on tires that have had warmers only is not the best idea.
yeah, giving it a lap also lets your brain get into the game and gives you a good look through the conditions since you left the track instead of going full bore.
I mostly do it to satisfy my mentals. I don't want to spend any energy worrying about my tires being too cold.
OreoGaborio
08-08-2008, 05:52 AM
Safe than sorry. There's a reason why they do a warm-up lap before all the GP races start. Because going 100% on tires that have had warmers only is not the best idea.
It's more as a sighting lap... tires fresh off warmers are typically way hotter than they are after a warm-up lap as they start cooling down as soon as you take the warmers off.
I've got an I.R. temp gun... my warmers get em up to about 160+ degrees and that's hotter than when I come off the track after a race.
It's more as a sighting lap... tires fresh off warmers are typically way hotter than they are after a warm-up lap as they start cooling down as soon as you take the warmers off.
I've got an I.R. temp gun... my warmers get em up to about 160+ degrees and that's hotter than when I come off the track after a race.
Ideal temps for DOT race tires are around 180. And the temp drops of a tire fresh out of a warmer depend on where you're at. They only drop a certain amount of degrees a minute and it's not that much, from what I've heard. The track temps out here in Vegas are rediculous, like 130+. They'll keep your tires nice and roasty.
dReWpY
08-08-2008, 03:59 PM
Yep. I have Pirelli DOTs- never ridden on them. I'll take it slow. But even cold, they have to grip better than the sport-touring tread I'm used to.
i have ran those before, money of a tire, loved it only got >1500 out of them before they were shot, but they were awesome tires...
Phenix_Rider
08-08-2008, 06:34 PM
i have ran those before, money of a tire, loved it only got >1500 out of them before they were shot, but they were awesome tires...
1,500 track miles is plenty. :rockout: Even at a "green flag" event where you're out all day, mileage doesn't add up that fast.
OreoGaborio
08-08-2008, 06:37 PM
The track temps out here in Vegas are rediculous, like 130+. They'll keep your tires nice and roasty.
Well in that case I see absolutely no reason for you to be worried about cold tires going into turn 1 :idk: I mean if it's a track day, that's a different story, but if you're talking racing, I bomb into turn 1 pretty hard & have never had a turn 1 crash... and that's probably about 5 minutes after my warmers have come off.... longer if there's a re-start.
(Of course I say that as I'm packing for this weekends races :whistle:)
dReWpY
08-08-2008, 06:45 PM
1,500 track miles is plenty. :rockout: Even at a "green flag" event where you're out all day, mileage doesn't add up that fast.
never said 1500 track miles... mostly gap miles
1,500 track miles is plenty. :rockout: Even at a "green flag" event where you're out all day, mileage doesn't add up that fast.
yeah dont expect 1500 track miles, its more like 3 or 4 days if you aren't hard on them depending on how tough your tech is.
ceo012384
08-08-2008, 07:53 PM
I've got an I.R. temp gun... my warmers get em up to about 160+ degrees and that's hotter than when I come off the track after a race.
Hey Pete will you have that up at the TTDs and if so can I use it?
My first track day my buddy brought his pyrometer (he does car TDs at Loudon a lot) and I was checking my stock shitty OEM dunlops after a session and they were at 140. I'm sure I'm getting the corsa IIIs a decent amount hotter than that now... I want to check it and then ask Boston Moto what their ideal operating temp is. I know my hot pressures were good last time, so I imagine temps should be good as well but I'm just curious.
yeah dont expect 1500 track miles, its more like 3 or 4 days if you aren't hard on them depending on how tough your tech is.
REALLY depends on your riding. I'm hoping to stretch my Corsa IIIs through this whole season which will be 10 track days.
That's with essentially no street riding thus far though. And I'm fucking slow, too :lol:
I guess it will depend if I get significantly faster over the next couple TDs or not. Either way I already have spare wheels that I'll be putting some supercorsas on when the corsa IIIs are shot and then the corsa IIIs will see street duty until the wear bars show up.
Well in that case I see absolutely no reason for you to be worried about cold tires going into turn 1 :idk: I mean if it's a track day, that's a different story, but if you're talking racing, I bomb into turn 1 pretty hard & have never had a turn 1 crash... and that's probably about 5 minutes after my warmers have come off.... longer if there's a re-start.
(Of course I say that as I'm packing for this weekends races :whistle:)
Yeah, just talking about track days. Racing is too expensive for. Track days satisfy my need for speed plenty. If I could afford to race I would, then I would be forced to go hot into 1. But it's a mental barrier I don't need to cross just doing track days.
Hey Pete will you have that up at the TTDs and if so can I use it?
My first track day my buddy brought his pyrometer (he does car TDs at Loudon a lot) and I was checking my stock shitty OEM dunlops after a session and they were at 140. I'm sure I'm getting the corsa IIIs a decent amount hotter than that now... I want to check it and then ask Boston Moto what their ideal operating temp is. I know my hot pressures were good last time, so I imagine temps should be good as well but I'm just curious.
REALLY depends on your riding. I'm hoping to stretch my Corsa IIIs through this whole season which will be 10 track days.
That's with essentially no street riding thus far though. And I'm fucking slow, too :lol:
I guess it will depend if I get significantly faster over the next couple TDs or not. Either way I already have spare wheels that I'll be putting some supercorsas on when the corsa IIIs are shot and then the corsa IIIs will see street duty until the wear bars show up.
I'm at a point now where a new set of PR's will last only 2 track days. I could get more if I swap the back around though. LVMS is full of rights and just eats up that side. The guy that owns the Michelin tent said it's okay to flip direction on the back Pilot Race, not the front though. I believe him because his was swapped and he was running 1:20 flat out there. Fast as fuck!
I'm at a point now where a new set of PR's will last only 2 track days. I could get more if I swap the back around though. LVMS is full of rights and just eats up that side. The guy that owns the Michelin tent said it's okay to flip direction on the back Pilot Race, not the front though. I believe him because his was swapped and he was running 1:20 flat out there. Fast as fuck!
You also have to deal with heat none of us are use to at all. It was in the upper 90's at Nashville my last track day and I was surprised how quickly i ate the tires up for one track day. Heat really plays a big part.
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