Several people dead in New Jersey mall shooting

[Papa_Complex]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-shopping-plaza-shootout-leaves-dead/story?id=17124439#.UECiKpYuYgw

[nhgunnut]

Again in a state with some of the strictest of gun laws. Sad very sad

[Papa_Complex]

Last I heard it was two employees and the shooter dead.

[nhgunnut]

Last I heard it was two employees and the shooter dead.
The last part is good news, millions saved in trial costs.

[Adeptus_Minor]

The last part is good news, millions saved in trial costs.

Yeah, but they always get it in the wrong order.
If you're that miserable/angry/crazy and can't cope, you're supposed to shoot YOURSELF first.. then, if that doesn't work, you can shoot other people..

[njchopper87]

Saw this today at lunch and was relieved that it said old and not wood. Don't get me wrong.. I feel bad for the victim's familes, but I know 1 or 2 people at the woodbridge location.

[Gas Man]

Again in a state with some of the strictest of gun laws. Sad very sad
This. T H I S

[Sixxxxer]

This. T H I S

At the end of the day, If someone wants it done...Laws dont mean SHIT.

[Gas Man]

True but they are less likely to try if they know the majority is packin heat. I cite, Texas as an example.

[Papa_Complex]

Again in a state with some of the strictest of gun laws. Sad very sad

The biggest problem that you guys have, is that there's no national strategy on firearms. It doesn't matter what an individual State's firearms laws are, if you can go just a State or two over and load up your trunk.

[nhgunnut]

The biggest problem that you guys have, is that there's no national strategy on firearms. It doesn't matter what an individual State's firearms laws are, if you can go just a State or two over and load up your trunk.

Respectfully Papa , there is a National Strategy,and it is quite clear on who can and cannot buy firearms. A federal Background check is required on every purchase. Additionally the Federal Government limits what can and can not be sold. Also because the ATF is one of the very few federal agencies that can "Rule by Decree" they can cancel or hold the sale of any weapon at will. (most notably they can also intimidate a Licensed Dealer into making what they believe to be an illegal sale as Proven by "Fast and Furious") What is then happens is each state then can pile on their own laws and restrictions in addition to the Federal Laws. As it Happens the States that have the most liberal gun laws have the least amount of gun crime and gun violence. Here in the NorthEast US Those that have Prohibitive laws like Mass New York and New Jersey Have the Highest rates of Gun Crime and Gun Violence. We could "Chicken and Egg" the reasons all day but the facts are here in the US Gun Laws do not prevent crime.

[Smittie61984]

I believe there is a national standard on gun laws in the US and you can find it in the 2nd ammendment. And with the Arizona ruling that basically states that state laws don't mean shit if it contradicts federal law, then I don't see how cities like NYC and Chicago can ban weapons that are legal according to the federal government.

I personally believe there are 2 things the government should not be allowed to have knowledge of. That is how much money someone makes and what individuals own guns.

[nhgunnut]

I believe there is a national standard on gun laws in the US and you can find it in the 2nd ammendment. And with the Arizona ruling that basically states that state laws don't mean shit if it contradicts federal law, then I don't see how cities like NYC and Chicago can ban weapons that are legal according to the federal government.

I personally believe there are 2 things the government should not be allowed to have knowledge of. That is how much money someone makes and what individuals own guns.
Beyond the Second Amendment there is the NFA which defines everything from the length of a Barrel.The overall length of a Firearm (for something to be considered a "Long Gun" It needs an Overall length of 26 plus inches) What is the maximum bore size (.50) Suppressors, what the make up of a projectile can be, Automatic fire all are defined. Papa's point was the conflicting state laws I believe. What has always been interesting to me is that Canada (which has some of the most prohibitive firearms law of any country) allows the importations of weapons that are illegal here in the US. (the VZ 58 jumps to mind)

[Papa_Complex]

And yet there's enough variation, State to State, that interstate gun trafficking can and does exist.

[nhgunnut]

And yet there's enough variation, State to State, that interstate gun trafficking can and does exist.
Papa I suspect you are a victim for the media hype. There is No legal mean of Interstate gun trafficking. It is a federal offense period. Each firearm sale has to go through a Federal Background Check Meaning so anyone that is prohibited from owning a firearm the sale is blocked. The only firearm that can be bought by someone who is not a state resident is a long gun (Rifle or Shotgun). Even then the individual buying the weapon has to prove the purchase would be legal in his state of residence. It is Illegal at a federal and state level to sell a resident of another state a handgun of any kind. Hand guns have to be purchased in the state of the buyers residence each and every state does their own background check in addition to the Federal One. So the laws exist and are enforced. There is NO legal means of interstate trafficking. A Criminal is a Criminal and they will ignore whatever law is written.

[Papa_Complex]

I'm not a victim of media hype. I also know that there's no LEGAL means of interstate gun trafficking. It's not, however, like you have border guards between your States.

[nhgunnut]

I'm not a victim of media hype. I also know that there's no LEGAL means of interstate gun trafficking. It's not, however, like you have border guards between your States.

Papa, I was not trying to be condescending I apologize if it came off that way. I see How the Media Portrays the Firearms and it is Hilarious in many ways. Form someone going to some Southern State and buying a trunk load of hand guns and driving them unnoticed to a state like NY. When the reality is that sequential purchase set off alarm bells at every level federal and state.I was responding to the idea that the there is no unified Federal Mechanism. There is and it works rather well. No it is not like we we have Border Guards although Here in NH we did have a Bill to Put Up signs Warning People that they are Entering Massachusetts because so much of what is legal in every other state is illegal in Massachusetts
Again My only point is that there is a Unified Federal Structure.

[wildchild]

I'm not a victim of media hype. I also know that there's no LEGAL means of interstate gun trafficking. It's not, however, like you have border guards between your States.

except, I can tell you from experience you can only buy a gun in the state you reside in or one state over. even though it is a Federal check you can not just go somewhere else and make your purchase.
If buying out of state the state where you purchase must border your state of residence.

[Papa_Complex]

A shill legally buys firearms in one State, then sells them off to people in another State. Unless they've started up roving bands of Federal firearms inspectors, in the last couple of years, this method works very well for supplying people who wouldn't otherwise qualify for ownership.

[wildchild]

A shill legally buys firearms in one State, then sells them off to people in another State. Unless they've started up roving bands of Federal firearms inspectors, in the last couple of years, this method works very well for supplying people who wouldn't otherwise qualify for ownership.

that would make one a convicted felon once caught.

[nhgunnut]

A shill legally buys firearms in one State, then sells them off to people in another State. Unless they've started up roving bands of Federal firearms inspectors, in the last couple of years, this method works very well for supplying people who wouldn't otherwise qualify for ownership.

"Shilling" works once as a rule and for one gun at a time. Multi Purchases ring alarm bells across the all system. Shilling works best when you Have the ATF telling people to sell you the gun. The actual term though is "Straw Purchase" The most famous "Straw Purchaser" Is Sarah Brady, who lied on a 4473 form to buy bolt action rifle for a family member. Interestingly enough it was a Scoped bolt action center-fire rifle that the Brady campaign described as " Sinister High Powered Snipers rifle"

[nhgunnut]

A shill legally buys firearms in one State, then sells them off to people in another State. Unless they've started up roving bands of Federal firearms inspectors, in the last couple of years, this method works very well for supplying people who wouldn't otherwise qualify for ownership.

"Shilling" works once as a rule and for one gun at a time. Multi Purchases ring alarm bells across the all system. Shilling works best when you Have the ATF telling people to sell you the gun. The actual term though is "Straw Purchase" The most famous "Straw Purchaser" Is Sarah Brady, who lied on a 4473 form to buy bolt action rifle for a family member. Interestingly enough it was a Scoped bolt action center-fire rifle that the Brady campaign described as " Sinister High Powered Snipers rifle"
Oh and Yes the ATF routinely performs site checks. Ask anyone in the US who has ever held a FFL

[Papa_Complex]

You don't need a FFL to purchase firearms, in the US, so an individual buyer is unlikely to be subject to a search on that basis.

You buy 10 or 20 pistols. You keep a couple and sell off the rest, to rather unscrupulous folks. Odds are if you never do it again, you'll never be on the Federal RADAR.

[goof2]

You don't need a FFL to purchase firearms, in the US, so an individual buyer is unlikely to be subject to a search on that basis.

You buy 10 or 20 pistols. You keep a couple and sell off the rest, to rather unscrupulous folks. Odds are if you never do it again, you'll never be on the Federal RADAR.

Ok, but this specific issue has nothing to do with lack or cohesion of the law (your original complaint), it is an issue of enforcement.

To the larger issue of regulation in general, if DC, NY, Chicago, and other places want to institute wildly unrealistic and unenforceable laws that is their business. Expecting other places to jump on their bandwagon of failure to make everyone feel good is just stupid though.

[Papa_Complex]

I can't disagree with the bandwagon comment. We have idiots in Toronto, who think that a gun and bullet ban in the city will somehow end the issue of gang related shootings. I guess that they don't understand that criminals don't really care about the law, nor that a short drive to Mississauga would result in being able to buy bullets.

Somewhat similar to the things that you're commenting on in your first paragraph ;)

[nhgunnut]

You don't need a FFL to purchase firearms, in the US, so an individual buyer is unlikely to be subject to a search on that basis.

You buy 10 or 20 pistols. You keep a couple and sell off the rest, to rather unscrupulous folks. Odds are if you never do it again, you'll never be on the Federal RADAR.

Papa, I assure you that anyone buying 10 pistols inside of a year moves them into a watch list. Both state and Federal. That said the primary issue you are illustration is that the\re is no law governing private sales in most states. The other weak spot that is exploited far more often that a sales point in the creepy family member that steals and other wise legal fire arm. In Most of those cases the theft goes unnoticed or unreported because no one wants to put uncle McNasty in Jail.