Cadillac med plan = more income

[RACER X]

Read this on the Aprilia board, and it would prob. Apply to "us" as well



I found out today the my health insurance plan is now considered a "Cadillac" plan. Not really sure what a "Chevy" plan would be as my "Cadillac" plan is like what I've had for the last 20 years.
As a result of owning a "Cadillac", I will now have $16,500 of income value added to my W-2, resulting in paying more income tax. At the same time the amount one can set aside for a Health Spending Account has been cut in half from $5,000 to $2,500.
Nice...

Anybody know about this, our med FSA also has dropped too

[fasternyou929]

You're just finding out about FSA now? Did you know capital gains taxes are going up, too?

Scary how uninformed the below-average voter is.

[Particle Man]

Yep. The Sheeple bought into the whole Health Care reform and this is the result.

[goof2]

As I understand it the guy is half right. I believe the government is going to start adding the value of health insurance plans to everyone's W-2, but it is only a part of gross income and is not taxable. Unless something changes in 2018 a tax will start on high value "Cadillac" health plans. The tax will be on the value of the plan over that threshold amount and will be paid by the insurance companies, not the individual with the plan. Of course that tax will ultimately have to come from higher rates for those insured by that insurance company.

Yes, the max amount that can qualify for a Flexible Spending Account (FSA) will be reduced. They are also placing more restrictions on what FSA funds can be spent on.

[RACER X]

http://healthreform.kff.org/faq/will-employees-be-taxed-for-the-portion-of-the-health-insurance-premium-that-is-paid-by-the-employer.aspx

Will employees be taxed for the portion of the health insurance premium that is paid by the employerStarting for the 2012 tax year, W-2 forms provided by employers (in the beginning of 2013) will show employees how much their health insurance costs. However, the reporting is for informational purposes only; employees will not be taxed on this amount. The requirement was originally set to go into effect for the 2011 tax year, but implementation was delayed by the Internal Revenue Service. A separate provision of the health reform law creates a new tax on so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans provided by employers. Beginning in 2018, plans valued at $10,200 for individual coverage or $27,500 for family policies will be subject to an excise tax of 40% on the value of the plan that exceeds these thresholds. The tax will be levied on insurers and self-insured employers, not directly on employees.The threshold amounts will be increased for inflation beginning in 2020, and may be adjusted upwards if health care costs rise more than expected prior to implementation of the tax in 2018. The thresholds are also adjusted upwards for retired individuals age 55 and older who are not eligible for Medicare, for employees engaged in high-risk professions, and for firms that may have higher health care costs because of the age or gender of their workers.

[OneSickPsycho]

Hey, at least it's super easy to understand...

[LeeNetworX]

I don't use FSA myself but on a related topic my out of pocket cost to provide health insurance to my family is going up 44% in 2013. :skep:

[RACER X]

I don't use FSA myself but on a related topic my out of pocket cost to provide health insurance to my family is going up 44% in 2013. :skep:

lee, we max our childcare FSA $5k, and whatever we think we need for healthcare.

can't hurt

whats it going up to? we're at $380/mos for 2013, same as 2012

[pauldun170]

I don't use FSA myself but on a related topic my out of pocket cost to provide health insurance to my family is going up 44% in 2013. :skep:


We are gong to a "consumer directed" plan which means when someone shows up with the bill, they direct them to the consumer.

All wellness visits are now free. Everything else (after hitting a the new mega deductible) is 80\20 split.

So, if you are healthy and only go to the doctor to catch up on how each others families are doing then your cost get chopped in half.
If you do something silly like get hurt or sick, I can see bankruptcy in your future.

As a result, I'm going from the FSA I had last year to an HSA.

[Tmall]

Sure is complicated to get sick down there.

[Homeslice]

As I understand it the guy is half right. I believe the government is going to start adding the value of health insurance plans to everyone's W-2, but it is only a part of gross income and is not taxable..

So what's the point of putting it on the W2 then?

[goof2]

Sure is complicated to get sick down there.

This process happens whether someone gets sick or not. Our system has options, options complicate things. For most people it is something to think about for an hour or two once every couple years.

So what's the point of putting it on the W2 then?

Don't know, it could be a few reasons. Since it is a government document there are probably penalties for "fudging" the numbers so they have this requirement to easily identify the "Cadillac" plans they will tax and what the tax should be. I suspect there is also some hope that people see the amount their insurance costs and have an "OMG! I want that money, lets go single payer because it is free!" reaction.

[Homeslice]

Still don't really get it. So the gov't is taxing insurers if someone buys a premium plan? For the purpose of subsidizing Obamacare, right?

All that's going to do is make those premium plans more and more expensive, because the insurers will pass on the costs. Then fewer people will buy them, so you're back to square one.

Nice, so now if I want a plan with lower deductibles & copayments, I have to pay more for it, cuz the gov't wants to subsidize losers who work part-time at KFC and have 3 kids.

[goof2]

Still don't really get it. So the gov't is taxing insurers if someone buys a premium plan? For the purpose of subsidizing Obamacare, right?

All that's going to do is make those premium plans more and more expensive, because the insurers will pass on the costs. Then fewer people will buy them, so you're back to square one.

Nice, so now if I want a plan with lower deductibles & copayments, I have to pay more for it, cuz the gov't wants to subsidize losers who work part-time at KFC and have 3 kids.

Maybe they will only pass on the additional cost to those more expensive plans. Since the insurance companies will still want their customers buying those more expensive plans for top execs my guess is they will pass that cost increase along through all their plans though.

[Apoc]

Nice, so now if I want a plan with lower deductibles & copayments, I have to pay more for it, cuz the gov't wants to subsidize losers who work part-time at KFC and have 3 kids.

I'd rather pay taxes for someone else's free healthcare, than not have free healthcare for myself when I need it. I go to a hospital, it costs me zero dollars. Doesn't matter if im there six minutes, or six months, I walk out with the same bill. Maybe its one more reason were just better people than you:idk:, we don't dont mind making sure that very few people are hungry and sick. It makes for a better, nicer, and friendlier country. One where we don't need handguns to protect ourselves, or lawsuits to get ahead. Its nice.

[Homeslice]

I'd rather pay taxes for someone else's free healthcare, than not have free healthcare for myself when I need it. I go to a hospital, it costs me zero dollars. Doesn't matter if im there six minutes, or six months, I walk out with the same bill. Maybe its one more reason were just better people than you:idk:, we don't dont mind making sure that very few people are hungry and sick. It makes for a better, nicer, and friendlier country. One where we don't need handguns to protect ourselves, or lawsuits to get ahead. Its nice.

People resort to crime for mostly 2 reasons --- Money, and emotion ........And while free healthcare might lessen #1, it's not going to do much about #2. I doubt your country is magically less emotional, hate-filled, or resentful about past relationships/whatever that you're going to get less rape or spouse abuse, for example.

[njchopper87]

I'd rather pay taxes for someone else's free healthcare, than not have free healthcare for myself when I need it. I go to a hospital, it costs me zero dollars. Doesn't matter if im there six minutes, or six months, I walk out with the same bill. Maybe its one more reason were just better people than you:idk:, we don't dont mind making sure that very few people are hungry and sick. It makes for a better, nicer, and friendlier country. One where we don't need handguns to protect ourselves, or lawsuits to get ahead. Its nice.

I only skimmed this thread, but after my mom had to pay $1500 just for sitting in a waiting room at the ER your post makes me angry.

[Tmall]

I only skimmed this thread, but after my mom had to pay $1500 just for sitting in a waiting room at the ER your post makes me angry.

I just dropped my mother off at the walk-in clinic. I'll pick her up in an hour or so and all it will cost is the gas money for the trip.

Like I said, sure is complicated to get sick down there..

[RACER X]

Add a few illegals like the US has and i bet CAnadian medical system would not be as utopian as they dream it is.

As reported by the Health Council of Canada, a 2010 Commonwealth survey found that 42% of Canadians waited 2 hours or more in the emergency room, vs. 29% in the U.S.; 43% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, vs. 10% in the U.S. The same survey states that 37% of Canadians say it is difficult to access care after hours (evenings, weekends or holidays) without going to the emergency department over 34% of Americans. Furthermore, 47% of Canadians, and 50% of Americans who visited emergency departments over the past two years feel that they could have been treated at their normal place of care if they were able to get an appointment.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_an d_the_United_States

[Apoc]

People resort to crime for mostly 2 reasons --- Money, and emotion ........And while free healthcare might lessen #1, it's not going to do much about #2. I doubt your country is magically less emotional, hate-filled, or resentful about past relationships/whatever that you're going to get less rape or spouse abuse, for example.


There is no doubt involved. Our crime rates per capita are far, far lower than yours, and total murders across the country per year are probably less than some single states in your wonderful USA. Believe what you want, we are a far more peaceful and friendly country than you seem to be able to understand. Most of the crime we see up here is petty. Theft, Simple Assault, stuff like that. Murders are not an everyday thing up here in Canada. Don't know why that is so hard for you to understand. A single murder in the whole province of New Brunswick (about 800k people), is a shocking event. If we have 5-6/year, that is about it.

[Apoc]

Add a few illegals like the US has and i bet CAnadian medical system would not be as utopian as they dream it is.

As reported by the Health Council of Canada, a 2010 Commonwealth survey found that 42% of Canadians waited 2 hours or more in the emergency room, vs. 29% in the U.S.; 43% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, vs. 10% in the U.S. The same survey states that 37% of Canadians say it is difficult to access care after hours (evenings, weekends or holidays) without going to the emergency department over 34% of Americans. Furthermore, 47% of Canadians, and 50% of Americans who visited emergency departments over the past two years feel that they could have been treated at their normal place of care if they were able to get an appointment.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_an d_the_United_States


You are using bullshit statistics from Wikipedia.

And those people who had to wait 2 hours in a waiting room, or 4 weeks to see a specialist, its because their conditions were not serious. Your stupid info fails to point out that care of people who are dangerously ill or sick are taken care of immediately. Ya, if you have a sore foot, you might have to wait in a waiting room for a few hours. But if you are severely injured, then you are going straight in to see a doctor. If surgery is required, it is immediate. My father was in surgery for cancer within 2 hours of pissing blood at home. When I had 3rd degree burns, I was with a doctor within 2 minutes of being brought in on a stretcher. Serious injuries or illness is treated immediately. People at the doctor for colds and small aches don't wait long enough,. imo. If they did, it would discourage them from wasting our medical systems time.

And I have never had a problem seeing my family doctor. Call in the morning, and I will have an appointment within hours. The people complaining about wait times are the ones abusing the system, at the doctors office 3x a week for every cough or ache they find themselves with. So ya, all of what you posted was taken completely out of context, and has very little truth to it.

[askmrjesus]

I'd rather pay taxes for someone else's free healthcare, than not have free healthcare for myself when I need it. I go to a hospital, it costs me zero dollars. Doesn't matter if im there six minutes, or six months, I walk out with the same bill. Maybe its one more reason were just better people than you:idk:, we don't dont mind making sure that very few people are hungry and sick. It makes for a better, nicer, and friendlier country. One where we don't need handguns to protect ourselves, or lawsuits to get ahead. Its nice.

Yeah well, blah blah blah.

Would a Canadian Fire department open your front door if you locked yourself out?

Didn't think so.

America, FUCK YEAH!

JC

[Apoc]

Yeah well, blah blah blah.

Would a Canadian Fire department open your front door if you locked yourself out?

Didn't think so.

America, FUCK YEAH!

JC

We are perfectly capable of kicking in our own doors. You fags.

[askmrjesus]

We are perfectly capable of kicking in our own doors. You fags.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You pansies probably give tourists correct directions to landmarks.

JC

[RACER X]

You are using bullshit statistics from Wikipedia.



right, cuz your personnal opinion is more accurate and i inputed the info into wiki

lets not forget the personnal service of my fire dept........

[Homeslice]

All I'm gonna say is, man that suburb must have no fires...

Pretty cush job if they have the freedom to unlock people's door and chill out with kids

[Apoc]

right, cuz your personnal opinion is more accurate and i inputed the info into wiki

lets not forget the personnal service of my fire dept........


It is not my personal opinion, it is reality.

My father, with cancer, was taken care of immediately.

My nephew, with a bad heart problem, has had two open heart surgeries at 2years of age, and the third and last coming after christmas. At one of the best childrens hospitals in the world. His first was done immediately after it came out my sisters stomach, as was planned for months.

It's all free, btw.

Anything that must be done now, is done now. People aren't left to die, as some of you idiots seem to believe. Yes, you aren't going to get a knee scope tomorrow. Not unless you blow your knee out and need it right away. Your surgery for Sleep Apnea might take a couple of months to come. Big fucking deal. You know if you need immediate care, you are getting it.

And I don't know if my fire dept. unlocks doors. I'm not cheap enough to find out.

[Apoc]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You pansies probably give tourists correct directions to landmarks.

JC

If she's hot enough. Then I know where she's going. :boobs:

[RACER X]

It's all free, btw.

.

I guess your version of free is diff. then mine.

[VatorMan]

Difference between Canada and the US-You got what ? .05 people per square mile up there?
Plus you don't have any diversity-you're all white. In fact you're racist against a LANGUAGE. How lame is that ?
Seriously tho, you guys have tremendous resources and very few people. You're like the Lumber version of Kuwait. They paid for all of their people's shit too.

[Apoc]

I guess your version of free is diff. then mine.


Free is when I go use a service, and don't get charged. Pretty simple, I would think even you could understand.

[Apoc]

Difference between Canada and the US-You got what ? .05 people per square mile up there?
Plus you don't have any diversity-you're all white. In fact your racist against a LANGUAGE. How lame is that ?
Seriously tho, you guys have tremendous resources and very few people. You're like the Lumber version of Kuwait. They paid for all of their people's shit too.

We have more oil than Kuwait too.

[RACER X]

Free is when I go use a service, and don't get charged. Pretty simple, I would think even you could understand.

i see their brainwashing works well..........keep on getting that "free" medicare........:lol

[pauldun170]

Canada's system would be tough in the US.
We have a huge defense industry to keep healthy.
Citizens can go pay for their own health care.Freedom and democracy and stuff like that.
Gotta keep it profitable and all....

[OneSickPsycho]

i see their brainwashing works well..........keep on getting that "free" medicare........:lol

It's an all volunteer system... none of the doctors or staff are paid, and all of the resouces they use (electricity, medicine, etc, etc) are all the product of alien technology and perpetual energy... aliens make weekly drops of supplies too.

[RACER X]

we all know canadian medical and drug co's are all non-profit.

[OneSickPsycho]

we all know canadian medical and drug co's are all non-profit.

No, it's beyond that. All volunteer... even non-profits have cost.

[Cutty72]

Free is when I go use a service, and don't get charged. Pretty simple, I would think even you could understand.

That's kinda like saying you paid to fill up a 1000 gal bulk tank of gas, but when you take out 20 gal for your car, it's free...

[goof2]

Difference between Canada and the US-You got what ? .05 people per square mile up there?
Plus you don't have any diversity-you're all white. In fact you're racist against a LANGUAGE. How lame is that ?
Seriously tho, you guys have tremendous resources and very few people. You're like the Lumber version of Kuwait. They paid for all of their people's shit too.

We buy about 15 times as much oil from Canada as we do from Kuwait. Canada is by far our largest oil supplier, selling us about the same amount as numbers 2 and 3 on the list (Saudi and Mexico) combined. Canada also sells us a bunch of natural gas. When it comes to energy sales Kuwait can't hold Canada's jock.

[RACER X]

saw this last night

[Apoc]

i see their brainwashing works well..........keep on getting that "free" medicare........:lol


I see, you are one of those idiots who is afraid of taxes.

No matter, when I say free, I mean it. Had my nephew been born in your shit country, he'd have been refused healthcare, and it would have costed our family hundreds of thousands. My dads med. bills would have been in the tens of thousands. Sorry, the meager amount of taxes I need to pay for all the free services I get, is the next best thing to free. I'm sorry your small mind and beady eyes won't let you see the truth.

[shmike]

I see, you are one of those idiots who is afraid of taxes.

No matter, when I say free, I mean it. Had my nephew been born in your shit country, he'd have been refused healthcare, and it would have costed our family hundreds of thousands. My dads med. bills would have been in the tens of thousands. Sorry, the meager amount of taxes I need to pay for all the free services I get, is the next best thing to free. I'm sorry your small mind and beady eyes won't let you see the truth.

I sometimes wonder if you actually believe the nonsense you post or are you just trying to get a rise out of Ed?

[pauldun170]

The question is how do you want to be insured?
Do you want private industry to manage your insurance or do you want government to handle insurance?

With private insurance, you can shop around or thats what I hear. Since my employer covers part of the cost thus hiding the true cost of my insurance plan, shopping around for "alternative coverage" usually results in a lot of "holy shit...that's a lot of money"
So in my case...there are no better deals and I'm forced to take what my employer offers me whatever shitty coverage it may be. I get to watch my insurance cost go up every year in exchange for 30 seconds talking to a doctor and having him either stick a prescription in my hand or sending me off to a specialists who does the same thing but with different equipment.

If I don't like my coverage..then I have the freedom to quit my job and go find a job that offers better health insurance benefits. Hopefully another job whose insurance plan doesn't involve the same huge mega conglomerate that the employers I just quit use.

With government insurance you can get the soup to nuts plan from single payer or if you need something special you can go out and purchase your own insurance.

Canada folks...do you get deductions if you purchase private insurance (vs using single payer)

[OneSickPsycho]

I see, you are one of those idiots who is afraid of taxes.

No matter, when I say free, I mean it. Had my nephew been born in your shit country, he'd have been refused healthcare, and it would have costed our family hundreds of thousands. My dads med. bills would have been in the tens of thousands. Sorry, the meager amount of taxes I need to pay for all the free services I get, is the next best thing to free. I'm sorry your small mind and beady eyes won't let you see the truth.

So wait, they would have been denied care AND still gotten a bill? Your argument has convinced me.

And FYI - they wouldn't have been refused healthcare... they would have gotten it for free. They cannot turn you down for emergency care... and they can't make you pay the bill when it comes.

I sometimes wonder if you actually believe the nonsense you post or are you just trying to get a rise out of Ed?

My thoughts exactly.

[RACER X]

and i have squinty eyes! damnit!

[Papa_Complex]

You are using bullshit statistics from Wikipedia.

And those people who had to wait 2 hours in a waiting room, or 4 weeks to see a specialist, its because their conditions were not serious. Your stupid info fails to point out that care of people who are dangerously ill or sick are taken care of immediately. Ya, if you have a sore foot, you might have to wait in a waiting room for a few hours. But if you are severely injured, then you are going straight in to see a doctor. If surgery is required, it is immediate. My father was in surgery for cancer within 2 hours of pissing blood at home. When I had 3rd degree burns, I was with a doctor within 2 minutes of being brought in on a stretcher. Serious injuries or illness is treated immediately. People at the doctor for colds and small aches don't wait long enough,. imo. If they did, it would discourage them from wasting our medical systems time.

And I have never had a problem seeing my family doctor. Call in the morning, and I will have an appointment within hours. The people complaining about wait times are the ones abusing the system, at the doctors office 3x a week for every cough or ache they find themselves with. So ya, all of what you posted was taken completely out of context, and has very little truth to it.

Actually there's more to it than that. Areas of high population density have longer waits to be seen and, because there is bureaucracy involved, those who are better at navigating such bureaucracy tend to get specialist appointments sooner.

I once arrived at an emergency room in an ambulance, after being hit by a car, and lay on a backboard for 4.5 hours before seeing a doctor. It was 2.5 hours before a nurse bothered to check if I even had a pulse. That was in Brampton.

On the other hand I got taken straight off the ambulance and into a ER, after getting hit by a motorcycle up around Caledon. They took me to the hospital in Orangeville (Debs's stomping grounds). I had X-rays done immediately and was out the door in two hours.

Jeez, I get hit by a lot of other drivers.

The difference was the population and area served by the hospital. Around major population centres you wait. In smaller towns and cities you get through almost immediately. Unless you're a motorcycle racer at Belleville General, that is. They'll let you bleed and moan for a while.

On the other hand when I busted my collarbone while (walking) at the track I knew where to go, to get an appointment within 72 hours with one of the top 5 orthopods in the country. A two hour wait in the early morning, in a downtown Toronto ER, saved me weeks on a waiting list.

As to the topic of this discussion, we've paid for our subsidiary health insurance as a taxable benefit for decades. The difference is that ours costs orders of magnitude less, because basic care is already covered. I'm paying for things like a private or semi-private room, rather than a ward bed.

[Apoc]

So wait, they would have been denied care AND still gotten a bill? Your argument has convinced me.

And FYI - they wouldn't have been refused healthcare... they would have gotten it for free. They cannot turn you down for emergency care... and they can't make you pay the bill when it comes.



My thoughts exactly.

I meant to say medicare/health insurance, not healthcare, my bad. His pre-existing condition would have prevented him from having insurance to pay for the bills, and even the co-pays would be ridiculous, if he could get insurance. And no, they cant make you pay the bill, but im sure it'll destroy that persons credit. Either way, there should be no cost to go to the hospital, period. I dont understand why you guys are so defensive over your shit system.

You guy's seem incapable of understanding that we get great healthcare at no cost to us outside of our taxes. Its pretty f'n simple. And our taxes are more than reasonable. Im not sure why it bothers you guys so much that most of us like our system. Most of us don't mind paying taxes. We aren't greedy fucks.

[shmike]

I meant to say medicare/health insurance, not healthcare, my bad. His pre-existing condition would have prevented him from having insurance to pay for the bills, and even the co-pays would be ridiculous, if he could get insurance. And no, they cant make you pay the bill, but im sure it'll destroy that persons credit. Either way, there should be no cost to go to the hospital, period. I dont understand why you guys are so defensive over your shit system.

You guy's seem incapable of understanding that we get great healthcare at no cost to us outside of our taxes. Its pretty f'n simple. And our taxes are more than reasonable. Im not sure why it bothers you guys so much that most of us like our system. Most of us don't mind paying taxes. We aren't greedy fucks.

So; you DO believe it?

[Apoc]

So; you DO believe it?

Stop acting like a retard.

I believe that taxes are important to a healthy country. I believe that healthcare should be available to all, even those who are poor and pay little to no taxes. I believe that the USA may be one of the most selfish countries in the world. Americans complain about our healthcare far more than we do. You guys are horrified that a few dollars of your money might go to helping someone else. It sick, disgusting, and show's exactly why your society is such a fucking mess.

[shmike]

Well, that's one way to connect the dots. :lol:

Thanks for my daily dose of irony!

[pauldun170]

Actually there's more to it than that. Areas of high population density have longer waits to be seen and, because there is bureaucracy involved, those who are better at navigating such bureaucracy tend to get specialist appointments sooner.

I once arrived at an emergency room in an ambulance, after being hit by a car, and lay on a backboard for 4.5 hours before seeing a doctor. It was 2.5 hours before a nurse bothered to check if I even had a pulse. That was in Brampton.

On the other hand I got taken straight off the ambulance and into a ER, after getting hit by a motorcycle up around Caledon. They took me to the hospital in Orangeville (Debs's stomping grounds). I had X-rays done immediately and was out the door in two hours.

Jeez, I get hit by a lot of other drivers.

The difference was the population and area served by the hospital. Around major population centres you wait. In smaller towns and cities you get through almost immediately. Unless you're a motorcycle racer at Belleville General, that is. They'll let you bleed and moan for a while.

On the other hand when I busted my collarbone while (walking) at the track I knew where to go, to get an appointment within 72 hours with one of the top 5 orthopods in the country. A two hour wait in the early morning, in a downtown Toronto ER, saved me weeks on a waiting list.

As to the topic of this discussion, we've paid for our subsidiary health insurance as a taxable benefit for decades. The difference is that ours costs orders of magnitude less, because basic care is already covered. I'm paying for things like a private or semi-private room, rather than a ward bed.


That's no different than here in New York.
My wife is from Queens and she is still amazed about the difference in wait times.

[shmike]

That's no different than here in New York.
My wife is from Queens and she is still amazed about the difference in wait times.

Wait times must be a big deal.

I see lots of billboards along the freeways with hospitals showing their current wait times.

[Papa_Complex]

That's no different than here in New York.
My wife is from Queens and she is still amazed about the difference in wait times.

That's my point, precisely. Level of service is dependant upon population and area covered. Toronto would be a reasonable comparison to most of the largest American cities, in that regard. If you remember Moore's "Sicko" he compared American care to what he filmed in London, Ontario; a brand new hospital in a city with a total metropolitan population (city and environs) of less than half a million and a low population density. Brampton on the other hand, for example, is a city of over a half a million, sitting next to Toronto which has a population of 2.6+ million, and Mississauga with a population of seven hundred or so thousand.

Sure, we have a lot of hospitals in this urban area, but population and density of habitation require them.

[pauldun170]

Wait times must be a big deal.

I see lots of billboards along the freeways with hospitals showing their current wait times.

You in Florida?

Usually an emergency room visit in my area is a 4-6 hour ordeal unless you actally convince the duty nurse something is REALLY wrong.
Otherwise its a matter of hoping the TV has something good on in the waiting room.
Dr visit are usually a few days for appt and specialist about a month on average.

[shmike]

You in Florida?

Usually an emergency room visit in my area is a 4-6 hour ordeal unless you actally convince the duty nurse something is REALLY wrong.
Otherwise its a matter of hoping the TV has something good on in the waiting room.
Dr visit are usually a few days for appt and specialist about a month on average.

Yeah, South FL.

You know all those old people that leave there each year freeing up surface streets and ER waiting rooms...

...they come here.

[VatorMan]

I can't wait for the great Mexican migration to get up there. Lets see how happy our mainly Caucasian brothers to the North enjoy covering them on their tax dollars.

[goof2]

I meant to say medicare/health insurance, not healthcare, my bad. His pre-existing condition would have prevented him from having insurance to pay for the bills, and even the co-pays would be ridiculous, if he could get insurance. And no, they cant make you pay the bill, but im sure it'll destroy that persons credit. Either way, there should be no cost to go to the hospital, period. I dont understand why you guys are so defensive over your shit system.

You guy's seem incapable of understanding that we get great healthcare at no cost to us outside of our taxes. Its pretty f'n simple. And our taxes are more than reasonable. Im not sure why it bothers you guys so much that most of us like our system. Most of us don't mind paying taxes. We aren't greedy fucks.

Why would you assume he wouldn't be able to get insurance due to his pre-existing condition?

[pauldun170]

I can't wait for the great Mexican migration to get up there. Lets see how happy our mainly Caucasian brothers to the North enjoy covering them on their tax dollars.

We get Central Americans and Caribbean up here.
That and the fucking Irish
Always the fucking Irish

[OneSickPsycho]

Why would you assume he wouldn't be able to get insurance due to his pre-existing condition?

Because one guy was denied that one time, so it's gotta be the same for everyone...

[shmike]

We get Central Americans and Caribbean up here.
That and the fucking Irish
Always the fucking Irish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWmf3Waio9E

[Homeslice]

Why would you assume he wouldn't be able to get insurance due to his pre-existing condition?

Some deny you.

[shmike]

Some deny you.

Not as a newborn they don't.

[Homeslice]

Newborns? :lol

[shmike]

Newborns? :lol

Yes.

It helps if you have read the discussion at hand.

[Homeslice]

Yes.

It helps if you have read the discussion at hand.

Go back to my original quote. He was talking about his dad's cancer.

[Apoc]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSBRE85J15720120620

[Apoc]

Go back to my original quote. He was talking about his dad's cancer.

I was talking both of my dads cancer, and my baby nephews multiple open heart surgeries.
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576498_655113391993_2081195851_n.jpg

[goof2]

Some deny you.

Some do, particularly if you are buying insurance on your own, but it is not even close to all. Specific to his nephew I may just not be aware of it but I've never heard of a pre-existing condition for a newborn either. That's why I asked why he would assume.

I'm certainly not saying it isn't a problem but the "pre-existing condition" issue is given so much attention people who don't know better assume if you had the flu one time you will never be able to get insurance again.

[Homeslice]

I didn't see the part about his nephew, I was referring to his dad.

And I don't think anyone's going to think about the flu in those terms. More like cancer, diabetes, etc.

[goof2]

I didn't see the part about his nephew, I was referring to his dad.

And I don't think anyone's going to think about the flu in those terms. More like cancer, diabetes, etc.

That was hyperbole.

[Apoc]

Some do, particularly if you are buying insurance on your own, but it is not even close to all. Specific to his nephew I may just not be aware of it but I've never heard of a pre-existing condition for a newborn either. That's why I asked why he would assume.

I'm certainly not saying it isn't a problem but the "pre-existing condition" issue is given so much attention people who don't know better assume if you had the flu one time you will never be able to get insurance again.

Except that in this case, it was a pre-existing condition, as it was known that he would need surgery at birth, about 4 months before he was born. Perhaps he could have recieved insurance, I don't know for sure, but thhere still would have been huge co-pays.

All I am saying is that if we don't have a problem with our own system, why do americans seem to want to pretend that there is a problem with it.

I have never, ever known a person who did not get the treatment they needed. If there is anything our medical system can do, they will do it. The cost of much of this stuff is astronomical. If we don't have a problem with paying 30% tax and deductions(EI, CPP, etc etc), why the fuck should you guys care? It does not affect you in any way, and most families are in need of the health care system, so yes, in effect it costs us nothing. As I said before, just your co-pays alone can add up to more than most people pay in taxes in a year, if lengthy care is required. Yes, you don't NEED to pay it, but i'm sure it fucks your credit, and causes as many bankruptcies as any other issue, aside from job losses. I much prefer our system, as do the vast majority of Canadians.

My standard of living is quite high. I don't have a problem with paying taxes. If it doesn't bother me, why the hell should it bother you guys? As a matter of fact, if the government would propose free college/university for students who keep their grades above, say 80%/B, I would vote to raise taxes for that, as well. I am a firm believer that education should be free and available to anyone who is willing to work hard enough to keep decent grades. Just as I believe nobody should recieve a bill for being sick or injured. In turn, those students who use the free education system, end up being lifelong tax payers who contribute to our society with their own tax dollars, instead of contributing to the riches of the banks who create interest rates on student loans high enough ensure the student is paying them for the next 12-15 years.

What I would stop though, is one of the biggest drains on society. Long term welfare. We have far too much of it. Anyone on welfare should be forced to take classes to improve their job skills, and to ffind work within 3-6 months, except in extreme cases (Mentally retarded people, severely disabled persons, and single mothers for the first year (and only the first) of the childs life. Welfare is a huge, senseless drain on our economy, and needs to be stopped.

Taxes are a great thing. I'm sorry you people are so afraid of them.

[OneSickPsycho]

Taxes are not a great thing because government is NOT a great thing. If our government was fully transparent, simplified, and efficient I think you'd see a lot less bitching about taxes and the government forcing of healthcare. The fact is, our government is such a clusterfuck of waste, abuse, and retardidity that having them control something that the private sector actually deals with pretty decently is cause for alarm. And frankly, part of the reason the private sector doesn't deal with it better is BECAUSE of government.

[RACER X]

you think the canadian system is better? it's not. there's only 5-6 canadians on here. thats 1/2 the popuation there, and none of canadians posters here are illegals.

[askmrjesus]

you think the canadian system is better? it's not. there's only 5-6 canadians on here. thats 1/2 the popuation there, and none of canadians posters here are illegals.

This is America Motherfucker.

Speak English.

JC

[VatorMan]

If Canada had to fund a world wide police force that keeps their ass from becoming Chinese slaves, you might have to pay a bit more.

It must be nice to live next door to someone that protects you for free.

[askmrjesus]

If Canada had to fund a world wide police force that keeps their ass from becoming Chinese slaves, you might have to pay a bit more.

It must be nice to live next door to someone that protects you for free.

Dude, what?

JC

[pauldun170]

If Canada had to fund a world wide police force that keeps their ass from becoming Chinese slaves, you might have to pay a bit more.

It must be nice to live next door to someone that protects you for free.

Protect Canada from who?

Is this about the Red Dawn remake?

[Papa_Complex]

If Canada had to fund a world wide police force that keeps their ass from becoming Chinese slaves, you might have to pay a bit more.

It must be nice to live next door to someone that protects you for free.

The only time we'll have to seek defence against becoming Chinese slaves is when they call your loans due, then march across the 49th to take our oil.

Protect Canada from who?

Is this about the Red Dawn remake?

Couldn't be. Those guys are North Korean (wink-wink).

[goof2]

Except that in this case, it was a pre-existing condition, as it was known that he would need surgery at birth, about 4 months before he was born. Perhaps he could have recieved insurance, I don't know for sure, but thhere still would have been huge co-pays.

All I am saying is that if we don't have a problem with our own system, why do americans seem to want to pretend that there is a problem with it.

I have never, ever known a person who did not get the treatment they needed. If there is anything our medical system can do, they will do it. The cost of much of this stuff is astronomical. If we don't have a problem with paying 30% tax and deductions(EI, CPP, etc etc), why the fuck should you guys care? It does not affect you in any way, and most families are in need of the health care system, so yes, in effect it costs us nothing. As I said before, just your co-pays alone can add up to more than most people pay in taxes in a year, if lengthy care is required. Yes, you don't NEED to pay it, but i'm sure it fucks your credit, and causes as many bankruptcies as any other issue, aside from job losses. I much prefer our system, as do the vast majority of Canadians.

My standard of living is quite high. I don't have a problem with paying taxes. If it doesn't bother me, why the hell should it bother you guys? As a matter of fact, if the government would propose free college/university for students who keep their grades above, say 80%/B, I would vote to raise taxes for that, as well. I am a firm believer that education should be free and available to anyone who is willing to work hard enough to keep decent grades. Just as I believe nobody should recieve a bill for being sick or injured. In turn, those students who use the free education system, end up being lifelong tax payers who contribute to our society with their own tax dollars, instead of contributing to the riches of the banks who create interest rates on student loans high enough ensure the student is paying them for the next 12-15 years.

What I would stop though, is one of the biggest drains on society. Long term welfare. We have far too much of it. Anyone on welfare should be forced to take classes to improve their job skills, and to ffind work within 3-6 months, except in extreme cases (Mentally retarded people, severely disabled persons, and single mothers for the first year (and only the first) of the childs life. Welfare is a huge, senseless drain on our economy, and needs to be stopped.

Taxes are a great thing. I'm sorry you people are so afraid of them.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but it isn't an issue of taxes for me. Having dealt with England's health care system I'll pay more out of pocket to avoid that kind of shit show. I'm happy you like your health care system. I found England's to be lacking and for some of the reasons outlined by OSP I suspect single payer in this country would be even worse.

[pauldun170]

I can't speak for anyone but myself but it isn't an issue of taxes for me. Having dealt with England's health care system I'll pay more out of pocket to avoid that kind of shit show. I'm happy you like your health care system. I found England's to be lacking and for some of the reasons outlined by OSP I suspect single payer in this country would be even worse.

England's health care system is completely different than Canada's.

[Homeslice]

If Canada had to fund a world wide police force that keeps their ass from becoming Chinese slaves, you might have to pay a bit more.

It must be nice to live next door to someone that protects you for free.

Didn't know Iraq & Afghanistan were about "protection"

Oh, I know, Saddam COULD have one day created bio or nukes, but he wouldn't have wasted them on friggin CANADA :lol:

[OneSickPsycho]

Didn't know Iraq & Afghanistan were about "protection"

Oh, I know, Saddam COULD have one day created bio or nukes, but he wouldn't have wasted them on friggin CANADA :lol:

I think it's a reasonable assumption that if the US fell, someone with an actual military may decide Canada looks pretty good... Oil and moose and shit...

[Papa_Complex]

Didn't know Iraq & Afghanistan were about "protection"

Oh, I know, Saddam COULD have one day created bio or nukes, but he wouldn't have wasted them on friggin CANADA :lol:

Ever seen the movie "Wag the Dog"?

[pauldun170]

I think it's a reasonable assumption that if the US fell, someone with an actual military may decide Canada looks pretty good... Oil and moose and shit...

Fortunately...the only folks that are close to having the ability to threaten Canada are.....

No one

If US told Canada to fuck off and Canada had to step up to the plate there is no one that could threaten Canadian sovereignty during the time it would take for Canada to restructure its military doctrine.
Nobody...not Russia, definitely not China...nobody. (except the US lol)

That's they state of the world and its been that way for close to a century.
North America is a bitch of a continent to mount offensive operations against and the only folks with a chance are Ruskies. Fortunately for Canada, Russia's shell of a military can't even handle bearded people right on their own turf.

China is a regional power and will be for a very, very long time. The only people who seriously consider China to be a global threat are those trying to boost defense indusrty stocks and evangelical magazine subscriptions.

[Papa_Complex]

(except the US lol)

We thought of that one too....

[goof2]

England's health care system is completely different than Canada's.

You think ours would be the same?

[pauldun170]

You think ours would be the same?

Same to what?

Lot of variety out there

http://people.howstuffworks.com/10-health-care-systems1.htm#page=0
http://www.who.int/whr/previous/en/

[fatbuckRTO]

China is a regional power and will be for a very, very long time. The only people who seriously consider China to be a global threat are those trying to boost defense indusrty stocks and evangelical magazine subscriptions.But... but... they have an aircraft carrier now!

[VatorMan]

Well MAYBE my example was a bit extreme.:lol but the principle is there. If you spent the amount of $$$ that we do on military, your taxes would double. Thank God our present government thinks its a great idea to get massive loans from China to pay for it. :wtfru:

[pauldun170]

But... but... they have an aircraft carrier now!

:lol

[askmrjesus]

Well MAYBE my example was a bit extreme.:lol but the principle is there. If you spent the amount of $$$ that we do on military, your taxes would double. Thank God our present government thinks its a great idea to get massive loans from China to pay for it. :wtfru:

A (very large) part of the reason Canada doesn't need much military spending, is that they don't spend nearly as much time pissing people off as we do. :lol:

The only people who hate Canadians, are French Canadians, and they hate everybody.

JC

[fatbuckRTO]

A (very large) part of the reason Canada doesn't need much military spending, is that they don't spend nearly as much time pissing people off as we do. :lol:There's definitely a lot of truth to this statement. In our defense, though, Canada is one of the MANY countries that benefit from US power projection. As nations, we agree on the really important stuff, for the most part (for instance, as a rule we both frown upon pouring acid on our daughters). So while I don't think Canada would be in danger of a North Korean occupation if we suddenly mothballed our fleet, I do think our military strength works to Canada's advantage. But the only faces people remember to hate are US faces.

Considering we have 10x their population and about 15x their economy size, the our share of that particular workload seems proportionate.

[Papa_Complex]

A (very large) part of the reason Canada doesn't need much military spending, is that they don't spend nearly as much time pissing people off as we do. :lol:

The only people who hate Canadians, are French Canadians, and they hate everybody.

JC

Unlike the Old World French, they don't hate American tourists. Or perhaps they love money more.

[goof2]

Same to what?

Lot of variety out there

http://people.howstuffworks.com/10-health-care-systems1.htm#page=0
http://www.who.int/whr/previous/en/

It was a rhetorical question. None of them are the same. Even if our government tried to exactly model the same system as Canada the results will be different. With the federal government involved I'm betting will be in a shitty direction though.

[Apoc]

you think the canadian system is better? it's not. there's only 5-6 canadians on here. thats 1/2 the popuation there, and none of canadians posters here are illegals.


That is your arguement? 'It's not'? Really. And when have you been to Canada, when have you studied our healthcare? Thats right, you haven't. But you read Wikipedia one time, I guess that makes you right.

Its one thing when people have a good arguement, or when people like OSP explain the state of your government being the reason it won't work down there. But you have never had a good arguement for anything, ever.

I guess using taxes for healthcare wouldn't work down there anyway, since most of your population has no jobs to pay taxes with.

[Apoc]

Didn't know Iraq & Afghanistan were about "protection"

Oh, I know, Saddam COULD have one day created bio or nukes, but he wouldn't have wasted them on friggin CANADA :lol:


Ummm, be realistic here, fool. If there were any country worth attacking and stealing their resources, it would be us. We have millions of square miles of metal minerals, oil, lumber, and more fresh water than most of the rest of the world combined.

We have enough natural resources, along with refinement capacity, to close our borders to trade and be self sufficient and self sustaining for the next 300 years. We don't, because we are peaceful and well liked, but we are one of the only countries in the world who would be capable of sustaining our population without and standard of living without any outside help.

It makes me laugh when people make foolish statements such as 'why would anyone want to invade Canada'... Ummm, maybe because our Natural resources are more abundant than any two other countries combined?

[pauldun170]

Ummm, be realistic here, fool. If there were any country worth attacking and stealing their resources, it would be us. We have millions of square miles of metal minerals, oil, lumber, and more fresh water than most of the rest of the world combined.

We have enough natural resources, along with refinement capacity, to close our borders to trade and be self sufficient and self sustaining for the next 300 years. We don't, because we are peaceful and well liked, but we are one of the only countries in the world who would be capable of sustaining our population without and standard of living without any outside help.

It makes me laugh when people make foolish statements such as 'why would anyone want to invade Canada'... Ummm, maybe because our Natural resources are more abundant than any two other countries combined?

truth

[askmrjesus]

Ummm, be realistic here, fool. If there were any country worth attacking and stealing their resources, it would be us. We have millions of square miles of metal minerals, oil, lumber, and more fresh water than most of the rest of the world combined.

We have enough natural resources, along with refinement capacity, to close our borders to trade and be self sufficient and self sustaining for the next 300 years. We don't, because we are peaceful and well liked, but we are one of the only countries in the world who would be capable of sustaining our population without and standard of living without any outside help.

It makes me laugh when people make foolish statements such as 'why would anyone want to invade Canada'... Ummm, maybe because our Natural resources are more abundant than any two other countries combined?

Oh yeah?

Well we have Cleveland, so fuck you!

JC

[goof2]

We don't, because we are peaceful and well liked,

And it pumps shit tons of money in to your economy.

[Papa_Complex]

Oh yeah?

Well we have Cleveland, so fuck you!

JC

Are you proud of it, or threatening to give Cleveland to us?

[VatorMan]

Are you proud of it, or threatening to give Cleveland to us?

You can have Cleveland only if you take Detroit too. C'mon- how can you turn down that bargain. :lol In return, we'll ignore the French Canadians too.

[Apoc]

Oh yeah?

Well we have Cleveland, so fuck you!

JC

I'll trade you Quebec, 50$, and an Indian reserve for it?

But you gotta pay tax on the frenchman and the 50$.