Gun owners 'outed' in NY

[RACER X]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/newspaper-publishes-gun-owners-names-addresses-215214269--abc-news-topstories.html

A newspaper in New York has received a wave of criticism from its readers after publishing the names and addresses of all of the individuals with handgun or pistol permits in its coverage area.

Hundreds of residents in New York's Westchester and Rockland counties were surprised to find their names and addresses listed on a map posted by The Journal News on Sunday. Users can click any dot on the map to see which of their neighbors has a permit for a gun.

The map sparked more than 500 comments from readers within a day of its appearance on the website, many of them voicing outrage at the paper's decision to make the information public.

"This is CRAZY!! why in the world would you post every licensed gun owner information?? What do you hope to accomplish by doing this. This is the type of thing you do for sex offenders not law abiding gun owners. What next? should i hang a flag outside my house that says I own a gun? I am canceling my subscription with your paper today!!!" said commenter Curtis Maenza.

"How about a map of the editorial staff and publishers of Gannett and Journal News with names and addresses of their families…," wrote commenter George Thompson.

All of the names and addresses were compiled through public records. The paper also requested the information from Putnam County, which is still compiling the records for publication, according to The Journal News' website.

In a statement to ABC News, The Journal News said its readers "are understandably interested to know about guns in their neighborhoods," because of the conversation about gun control on its website after the shooting in Newtown, Conn., last week.

"We obtained the names and addresses of Westchester and Rockland residents who are licensed to own handguns through routine Freedom of Information law requests. We also requested information on the number and types of guns owned by permit holders, but officials in the county clerks offices in Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties maintained that those specifics were not public record," the statement read.

"New York's top public-records expert, Robert Freeman, disagrees," it added.

The paper declined to answer further questions about the map.

[Twobanger]

Someone has already outed everyone that works for the newspaper in retaliation. At least one of the gun owners outed was a woman who was in hiding from a violent ex.

[Dave]

Talk about an invitation for robbery. I'd sue the fuck out of them

[dubbs]

Talk about an invitation for robbery. I'd sue the fuck out of them

I would think the opposite.. Ok, this is who we DON'T rob..

[OneSickPsycho]

Someone has already outed everyone that works for the newspaper in retaliation. At least one of the gun owners outed was a woman who was in hiding from a violent ex.

Totally fucked up...

[MikeSP1]

Someone has already outed everyone that works for the newspaper in retaliation. At least one of the gun owners outed was a woman who was in hiding from a violent ex.

Definitely no cool. I know, the understatement of the week. Hope she doesn't pay for it the hard way.

[Particle Man]

Totally fucking ridiculous. Grrr

[MikeSP1]

And by the way, someone ought to lose their job for that. I don't care how extreme the paper is intended to be or if the information is public record, pointing fingers at people who are within their rights ain't gravy.

[Papa_Complex]

I would think the opposite.. Ok, this is who we DON'T rob..

Or it's a shopping list for the places that you rob when people are at work, to try and collect every gun you might ever want. It's a bloody irresponsible thing for a media outlet to do.

[dubbs]

Or it's a shopping list for the places that you rob when people are at work, to try and collect every gun you might ever want. It's a bloody irresponsible thing for a media outlet to do.

I definitely don't agree with what they did, but they didn't post what type of gun and how many they had, so I fail to see how it could be a shopping list for thieves.

[Papa_Complex]

I definitely don't agree with what they did, but they didn't post what type of gun and how many they had, so I fail to see how it could be a shopping list for thieves.

OK, so call it the 'bargain bin'; stick in your hand and see what you get.

[Mikey]

OK, so call it the 'bargain bin'; stick in your hand and see what you get.

Hopefully the same thing you get if you break into my house. There are several loaded guns, and pretty much always someone home who can use them.

[Papa_Complex]

Hopefully the same thing you get if you break into my house. There are several loaded guns, and pretty much always someone home who can use them.

An unrealistic view, at best. People go to work. They go to the store, they go on vacation. If they own more than one firearm, or live in a place where concealed carry isn't permitted, then those weapons will be on the street.

[Twobanger]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/01/journal-news-hires-armed-security-guards-153103.html

The newspaper hired armed security after backlash to their reveal of permit holders.

A little bit ironic dontcha think?

[nhgunnut]

An unrealistic view, at best. People go to work. They go to the store, they go on vacation. If they own more than one firearm, or live in a place where concealed carry isn't permitted, then those weapons will be on the street.
The unrealstic view is assuming that the firearms would be found or stolen. Most home in my neighborhood have at least on loaded firearm when occupied. Even the most clever of bad guys would be hard pressed to find them.
It was "Very responsible" (not) for this paper to tell the bad guys where to start looking, and funny that they found the Wisdom of "the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" Real Fast , didn't they!

[Papa_Complex]

The unrealstic view is assuming that the firearms would be found or stolen. Most home in my neighborhood have at least on loaded firearm when occupied. Even the most clever of bad guys would be hard pressed to find them.
It was "Very responsible" (not) for this paper to tell the bad guys where to start looking, and funny that they found the Wisdom of "the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" Real Fast , didn't they!

And you are assuming that all people would be as circumspect, rather than just keeping the pistol in the nightstand next to the bed. When no one is around they can take an hour or two to toss the place, because they know that it's there somewhere. They know that it's a handgun, because that's what the outed owners possess, so they know it's money in the bank.

If they outed firearms owners, with the intent of informing other residents and making things safer for all, then their motives are suspect from the get-go. Publish a name of a nut and he goes off, likely at the person who published the name. Possibly at the surrounding neighbours. Fire. Gasoline. BOOM. Dumbasses.

[nhgunnut]

And you are assuming that all people would be as circumspect, rather than just keeping the pistol in the nightstand next to the bed. When no one is around they can take an hour or two to toss the place, because they know that it's there somewhere. They know that it's a handgun, because that's what the outed owners possess, so they know it's money in the bank.

If they outed firearms owners, with the intent of informing other residents and making things safer for all, then their motives are suspect from the get-go. Publish a name of a nut and he goes off, likely at the person who published the name. Possibly at the surrounding neighbours. Fire. Gasoline. BOOM. Dumbasses.

I would give you a full 24 hours in most homes around me . and would still bet against you finding anything you could use. Regardless what this paper did was incredibly irresponsible. Some years back there was a proposal in Minnesota to to place a placard on every that had a gun. Then Governor Ventura pointed out that the absence of a placard was as good putting up sign that said "I have no gun or means of defense" the proposal died quietly.

[Switch]

I don't understand why this is a big deal.

IT'S PUBLIC RECORD

Herp derp.

Hey guys, look, here's a listing of all the ones in Tennessee. And no, I don't give a shit that my name is on it.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/data/gunpermits/

[Trip]

The Tennessee one doesn't give addresses, just which city/county you live in.

[Homeslice]

You might give a shit if you ever apply for a job where the employer holds a stereotype against gun owners. Not that you'll ever find out.....they'll just never call.

[Papa_Complex]

You might give a shit if you ever apply for a job where the employer holds a stereotype against gun owners. Not that you'll ever find out.....they'll just never call.

Or if you were to work in a place where the VPRI is one of the biggest anti firearm advocates in the country, like I do.

[RACER X]

fyi

[Homeslice]

The Journal News...What a stupid name. It's grammatically incorrect.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Texas volunteered ours.

http://static.infowars.com/2013/01/i/general/map-of_registered_texan_gun_owners.jpg

(yes, it's a meme and yes, I linked the image from Infowars.. it's the first one that came up when I searched for it)

[Switch]

You might give a shit if you ever apply for a job where the employer holds a stereotype against gun owners. Not that you'll ever find out.....they'll just never call.

Too bad so sad? It's public record, find another place to work.

The Tennessee one doesn't give addresses, just which city/county you live in.

I'm sure you could acquire it, via public record.

Or, just look them up on whitepages.com

[goof2]

Too bad so sad? It's public record, find another place to work.

Part of the issue is should this information be public record.

[Trip]

I'm sure you could acquire it, via public record.

Or, just look them up on whitepages.com

I don't have a LAN line and don't live in Loudon anymore. It's old info.

[MikeSP1]

Even though, for the time being, all that information is public record, it is still not morally acceptable for all of it to be compiled in such a manner. Marking and fingering law abiding citizens is something that criminals and terrorists do, and something that should not be done by a newspaper.

[MikeSP1]

Too bad so sad? It's public record, find another place to work.




Jobs are hard enough to come by lately, you take what you can get that serves your needs. Being shot down by an employer for no other reason than you own a firearm is idiotic. If you can't legally be fired due to the fact that you own a firearm, why should you be disqualified for employment because of the same?

[Switch]

Jobs are hard enough to come by lately, you take what you can get that serves your needs. Being shot down by an employer for no other reason than you own a firearm is idiotic. If you can't legally be fired due to the fact that you own a firearm, why should you be disqualified for employment because of the same?

Would you really want to work for someone like that though? They are probably doing you a favor.

[Papa_Complex]

Too bad so sad? It's public record, find another place to work.

There's an awful lot of stuff that can be acquired via a FOI request. That doesn't mean that it should all be compiled and published.

[RACER X]

do you like to see your name, address, house value or pics on the inet w/o your permission, my guess is NO

this is no diff. sure its out there, but at least you have to do some digging to find it.

[Trip]

do you like to see your name, address, house value or pics on the inet w/o your permission, my guess is NO

this is no diff. sure its out there, but at least you have to do some digging to find it.

This is all already available and doesn't require much digging at all.

[RACER X]

and i said that, doesn't mean, you me or anybody would like it.

do you like to see your name, address, house value or pics on the inet w/o your permission, my guess is NO

this is no diff. sure its out there, but at least you have to do some digging to find it.

[fasternyou929]

This is all already available and doesn't require much digging at all.

But it flipped the whole equation on its head. People that can't recognize the difference between having information about an individual available upon request and publishing an interactive map that gives the home address of any population sect worry me. Particularly a sect that is viewed as a threat by many people.

[Papa_Complex]

But it flipped the whole equation on its head. People that can't recognize the difference between having information about an individual available upon request and publishing an interactive map that gives the home address of any population sect worry me. Particularly a sect that is viewed as a threat by many people.

First they came for the pedophiles.
...
Then they came for the gun owners--and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Trip]

But it flipped the whole equation on its head. People that can't recognize the difference between having information about an individual available upon request and publishing an interactive map that gives the home address of any population sect worry me. Particularly a sect that is viewed as a threat by many people.

Not really, Tennessee has an easily searchable property tax website that does have an interactive map that you can click to find out who owns the property, the price they paid for it, basic info, and the tax they pay. You can also search by address or name. Any mapping software can get you a pic of the area too.

If Tennessee has this interactive of a website, that pretty much guarantees any state can implement it if they so choose. We aren't technological giants.

I used it to track down who was building a kart track near me and where it was when they were trying to keep the location hush hush.

[fasternyou929]

Not really, Tennessee has an easily searchable property tax website that does have an interactive map that you can click to find out who owns the property, the price they paid for it, basic info, and the tax they pay. You can also search by address or name. Any mapping software can get you a pic of the area too.

If Tennessee has this interactive of a website, that pretty much guarantees any state can implement it if they so choose. We aren't technological giants.

I used it to track down who was building a kart track near me and where it was when they were trying to keep the location hush hush.

Oh, I totally forgot about all the people that feel threatened by anyone that paid more than $xx for a house, especially in the wake of all the publicity of school shootings. So yeah, that's definitely the same thing.

I bet that bastard with the super secret Go Kart track was a potential target for retribution, too! :lol

A map to find specific individuals or properties is VASTLY different than an interactive map with the sole purpose of showing you a sect of the population.

As I said before... you worry me.

[shmike]

As I said before... you worry me.

The individual Trip doesn't worry me but his sect does, if only because of its sheer size.

[RACER X]

so trip

whats your address?

[Trip]

The individual Trip doesn't worry me but his sect does, if only because of its sheer size.

I didn't say I was for what this newspaper is doing or what Tennessee does with it's property tax assessment website, I was just saying that the information that is being discussed is already available.

There is a lot of information about every one of us out there and it's laughable that people don't realize just how much you can find about a person with a very small amount of known information about that person.

[Trip]

I bet that bastard with the super secret Go Kart track was a potential target for retribution, too! :lol

He was worried about neighbors blocking his application because of noise and so forth. He wouldn't tell the people he was trying to get to come out and play on it to spread the info. I just wanted to know where it was at and found it easily.

[fasternyou929]

I didn't say I was for what this newspaper is doing or what Tennessee does with it's property tax assessment website, I was just saying that the information that is being discussed is already available.

There is a lot of information about every one of us out there and it's laughable that people don't realize just how much you can find about a person with a very small amount of known information about that person.

But surely you see the difference between being able to look up one's public information by name versus being able to find someone's name and information based on general categories?

[fasternyou929]

The individual Trip doesn't worry me but his sect does, if only because of its sheer size.

You aren't kidding. I read a well written letter from a Marine about his opposition to registering his guns should the time come and the comments below it were shocking. Very few in support of him, but plenty of venom and "you couldn't be a Marine if it weren't for the rest of us... you're not above the law... you're no better than anybody else" comments.

It was eye-opening what the masses have the power to vote into play.

[Papa_Complex]

You aren't kidding. I read a well written letter from a Marine about his opposition to registering his guns should the time come and the comments below it were shocking. Very few in support of him, but plenty of venom and "you couldn't be a Marine if it weren't for the rest of us... you're not above the law... you're no better than anybody else" comments.

It was eye-opening what the masses have the power to vote into play.

Abject fear is an excellent motivator, whether justified or not. Look at The Patriot Act, for example. The People begged for it, at the time.

[Trip]

But surely you see the difference between being able to look up one's public information by name versus being able to find someone's name and information based on general categories?

I have guns, I would rather people not be able to know what I have and don't have. I don't necessarily agree with property assessment records online either. However, I advertise my purchases on facebook of my guns and home, so I am not the best advocate for complete privacy. I know some of my friends would have no problem outing me to the media/whoever if for some reason they had reason to research me. I really don't have a leg to stand on to argue against it.

You aren't kidding. I read a well written letter from a Marine about his opposition to registering his guns should the time come and the comments below it were shocking. Very few in support of him, but plenty of venom and "you couldn't be a Marine if it weren't for the rest of us... you're not above the law... you're no better than anybody else" comments.

It was eye-opening what the masses have the power to vote into play.

Bull fucking shit.... He got a ton of backing and positive comments. The gun debate is very divided, so you are going to get a lot of positive and negative comments if you take a stand on anything in this debate even if you are a complete neutral in the debate.

[fasternyou929]

I have guns, I would rather people not be able to know what I have and don't have. I don't agree with property assessment records online either. However, I advertise my purchases on facebook of my guns and home, so I am not the best advocate for complete privacy. I know some of my friends would have no problem outing me to the media/whoever if for some reason they had reason to research me. I really don't have a leg to stand on to argue against it.
Could have (sorry, could OF) saved yourself a lot of wasted typing as said "no, I do not see a difference between real estate transactions and an interactive map for a politically charged topic."

Bull fucking shit.... He got a ton of backing and positive comments. The gun debate is very divided, so you are going to get a lot of positive and negative comments if you take a stand on anything in this debate even if you are a complete neutral in the debate.
I wasn't asking you what I read.

[Homeslice]

Saying it's ok for a newspaper to publish gun owners just because people "could" get that info themselves is like saying it's ok for Cheney to out Valerie Plame just because a reporter outed her before.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Abject fear is an excellent motivator, whether justified or not. Look at The Patriot Act, for example. The People begged for it, at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FFVWEQnSM

[CasterTroy]

I know some of you likely saw this on Derf's FB this AM


Friend who is an nypd cop posted a status that he was warned at work to take extra precautions at home and to expect that he should receive that's our actual violence by people he arrested because his name was published on a website along with his address. Etc

And Helen's reply:

Apparently some inmates are using this information to intimidate/threaten COs and their families

I remember, as a kid, my best friends father being a detective and being told "the drill" when I'd come over to spend the night about "if someone breaks in to come after my dad this is what we do..."

And I thought "Your dad's a COP..why would bad guys break INTO his house?!?!?"

That's when I got a shock into THE REAL WORLD from his dad, and the actual FEAR that that family lived with every day because of who he was and the people he put away. One of several reasons I never decided to pursue a career in law enforcement.

Publishing for the masses something that can be FOUND with enough effort and time by anyone (two things a CRIMINAL doesn't both putting forth EFFORT and TIME...hence WHY they are criminals) is a real problem! Especially if LE HOME information has been outted.

[fasternyou929]

Publishing for the masses something that can be FOUND with enough effort and time by anyone (two things a CRIMINAL doesn't both putting forth EFFORT and TIME...hence WHY they are criminals) is a real problem! Especially if LE HOME information has been outted.
Exactly. Birth and death information are public record, too. Does that mean an interactive map should be made that shows the home address of people who recently died? Maybe they can be color coded to show whether or not any remaining living persons live in the home, since that's public record too. If the person that died was the last person living at that address, and they have no living relatives within 300 miles, they should be marked with a special bright red dot. Nobody should care because it's just public information, right? Has been for many a decade!

The way information is presented is every bit as relevant as the information itself when it comes to making it available to the general public. Apparently a significant portion of the population is too stupid to recognize such a basic principle.

[Trip]

Exactly. Birth and death information are public record, too. Does that mean an interactive map should be made that shows the home address of people who recently died? Maybe they can be color coded to show whether or not any remaining living persons live in the home, since that's public record too. If the person that died was the last person living at that address, and they have no living relatives within 300 miles, they should be marked with a special bright red dot. Nobody should care because it's just public information, right? Has been for many a decade!

The way information is presented is every bit as relevant as the information itself when it comes to making it available to the general public. Apparently a significant portion of the population is too stupid to recognize such a basic principle.

The problem for you is the population is ok with it. The amount of information you can obtain easily from facebook is astonishing and that's people willing providing that information for anyone to look at, privacy controls on there are a joke.

A lot of this information has always been really easy to get and the little map is in no way relevant. If you really have a problem with it, you should fight the FOIA in it's entirity in regard to this type of release, not just because someone puts up a silly map. The government had nothing to do with the map in the first place. It's a newspaper that did it, they did nothing illegal by putting together the map, so you need to start by stopping how they got the information to put together the map....

Someone posted that they should make a map like this of welfare recipents last night. I replied that they should get off their ass and file the FOIA requests and make the damn thing instead of sitting on their ass making facebook posts.

[OneSickPsycho]

Information you volunteer is quite different from information you are required to provide, especially when that information is advertised very publically by a 3rd party.

Say you didn't want your address to be public information... it already is, but you don't have a choice in that matter. However, you don't go around posting it everywhere... Now say, I get online and search property records... and then I post your address on every forum you frequent. Is that ok?

[CasterTroy]

Say you didn't want your address to be public information... it already is, but you don't have a choice in that matter. However, you don't go around posting it everywhere... Now say, I get online and search property records... and then I post your address on every forum you frequent. Is that ok?



That's why we have AMJ (http://www.twowheelfix.com/showpost.php?p=437067&postcount=183) :lol

[Trip]

Information you volunteer is quite different from information you are required to provide, especially when that information is advertised very publically by a 3rd party.

Say you didn't want your address to be public information... it already is, but you don't have a choice in that matter. However, you don't go around posting it everywhere... Now say, I get online and search property records... and then I post your address on every forum you frequent. Is that ok?

It's public information, unfortunately it's completely legal as long as its public info. You would have to prove its meant for harassment or some other crime for it not be ok.

Could also be against forum rules and you could get admins to remove it that way.

[Papa_Complex]

That's why we have AMJ (http://www.twowheelfix.com/showpost.php?p=437067&postcount=183) :lol

No fair. He's omniscient.

[fasternyou929]

A lot of this information has always been really easy to get and the little map is in no way relevant.

I can't tell if you're just not reading what I am saying, being intentionally obtuse, or worse.

[Trip]

I can't tell if you're just not reading what I am saying, being intentionally obtuse, or worse.

I can't tell if you are a just a fucking moron or pretending to be one. The information is available, someone making it into a pretty map is of no consequence. If you have a problem with the information being available, you need to deal with that aspect of it, not someone making a fucking pretty presentation of it.

[Switch]

I can't tell if you are a just a fucking moron or pretending to be one. The information is available, someone making it into a pretty map is of no consequence. If you have a problem with the information being available, you need to deal with that aspect of it, not someone making a fucking pretty presentation of it.

End of thread.

[fasternyou929]

I can't tell if you're just not reading what I am saying, being intentionally obtuse, or worse.

I can't tell if you are a just a fucking moron or pretending to be one. The information is available, someone making it into a pretty map is of no consequence.

So it's the last one. I figured as much but tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Totally unrelated - ever notice when Avatard resorted to dropping F-bombs to make a point, it made him sound like a knuckle-dragging mouth breather that couldn't see what was right in front of him, no matter how many times people tried to explain it?

[Trip]

So it's the last one. I figured as much but tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Totally unrelated - ever notice when Avatard resorted to dropping F-bombs to make a point, it made him sound like a knuckle-dragging mouth breather that couldn't see what was right in front of him, no matter how many times people tried to explain it?

Please explain to me how in a free country it's a crime or wrong to make legally obtained information put in a pretty form? If you have a problem with the information being freely available, wouldn't it make sense to go to the source providing the information?

[fasternyou929]

Please explain to me how in a free country it's a crime or wrong to make legally obtained information put in a pretty form? If you have a problem with the information being freely available, wouldn't it make sense to go to the source providing the information?

I never said it was a crime, and I've given reasons above why I think it's wrong. If you don't agree with them (or refuse to acknowledge them), we're on different sides of the fence, and your side of the fence worries me. I think it's an abuse of the act to take a massive amount of information via FOIA and publish an interactive map.

You think the map is silly and irrelevant. I think it's the crux of the problem and the argument/discussion.

[Papa_Complex]

Please explain to me how in a free country it's a crime or wrong to make legally obtained information put in a pretty form? If you have a problem with the information being freely available, wouldn't it make sense to go to the source providing the information?

Well off the top of my head, I would say that it's wrong because it creates a situation in which people whose information is abused have no recourse, as the people who have requested it act as an information buffer between the source, and the destination.

A crime? No. Morally repugnant? Yes.

[Trip]

I never said it was a crime, and I've given reasons above why I think it's wrong. If you don't agree with them (or refuse to acknowledge them), we're on different sides of the fence, and your side of the fence worries me. I think it's an abuse of the act to take a massive amount of information via FOIA and publish an interactive map.

You think the map is silly and irrelevant. I think it's the crux of the problem and the argument/discussion.

I don't think attacking the map will do anything and thus is irrelevant. The paper seems to be enjoying the reaction, maybe not as much anymore since they hired guards after getting death threats, but they show no interest in taking it down. You need to go after what is allowed with FOIA releases to actually cause real change. Hell, you could make the map illegal and they would have to remove it. Instead, what has been accomplished, is giving the paper a ton more publicity.

[Trip]

Well off the top of my head, I would say that it's wrong because it creates a situation in which people whose information is abused have no recourse, as the people who have requested it act as an information buffer between the source, and the destination.

A crime? No. Morally repugnant? Yes.

They have recourse, hell they could of stopped it from ever happening. However, they elected the wrong people and a law that would of prevented this from happening failed to pass. Change the law, get this taken down.

There is a lot of things the media publishes that isn't exactly moral, but that doesn't mean they can't publish it or wrong to do it.

[fasternyou929]

I don't think attacking the map will do anything and thus is irrelevant. The paper seems to be enjoying the reaction, maybe not as much anymore since they hired guards after getting death threats, but they show no interest in taking it down. You need to go after what is allowed with FOIA releases to actually cause real change. Hell, you could make the map illegal and they would have to remove it. Instead, what has been accomplished, is giving the paper a ton more publicity.

I strongly disagree with your first statement. The Westboro Baptist get a lot of publicity too, but you don't see too many copycats. There is a point when there is such a thing as bad publicity.

I don't think we need more laws, we're pretty well covered there, and the paper is not guilty of a crime other than moral bankruptcy and blatant stupidity. Ideally people would recognize what the paper has done and take their business elsewhere rather than support them. The troubling part is the number of people that support them.

[Trip]

I don't think we need more laws, we're pretty well covered there, and the paper is not guilty of a crime other than moral bankruptcy and blatant stupidity. Ideally people would recognize what the paper has done and take their business elsewhere rather than support them. The troubling part is the number of people that support them.

Because people don't care til it effects them. Already been through an against a FOIA fight that impacted my life and lost. People that weren't effected didn't give a shit then either.

[fasternyou929]

First they came for the pedophiles.
...
Then they came for the gun owners--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Because people don't care til it effects them. Already been through an against a FOIA fight that impacted my life and lost. People that weren't effected didn't give a shit then either.

Welcome to the half-way point of this thread. :lol

[Trip]

Welcome to the half-way point of this thread. :lol

It's an endless circle. It's really the answer to this whole argument. LOL

[Papa_Complex]

Because people don't care til it effects them. Already been through an against a FOIA fight that impacted my life and lost. People that weren't effected didn't give a shit then either.

So nuke 'em.

[Trip]

So nuke 'em.

I have to drown them now, no longer radioactive. :lol:

[fasternyou929]

I have to drown them now, no longer radioactive. :lol:

Drowing is the #1 or #2 most feared way of dying worldwide and it's much faster than radiation poisoning, so don't sell yourself short.

[CasterTroy]

You need to go after what is allowed with FOIA releases to actually cause real change. Hell, you could make the map illegal and they would have to remove it. Instead, what has been accomplished, is giving the paper a ton more publicity.


I dunno Trip, I'm with 929 on this one....your argument (while true) is akin to saying if you want to STOP Westboro Baptist (since that was brought up) you need to blame President John Adams for signing the first amendment which ALLOWS them the vehicle to BE the dousche bags they are.

And while you're correct in the fact that the (theoretical) MAP itself isn't illegal, NOR is any of the information provided ON said map...to publish it and endanger people in that manor is WRONG.

What it boils down to, is while it's not illegal to do some things...."back in the day" your ass woulda got DELT with over stuff like this, and it just wouldn't HAPPEN.

I mean, "back in the day" if you were to jump up on the courtyard wall at lunch in HS and tell everyone that Tito's momma was a whore because she slept with [name all the confirmed penis penetrations] that wouldn't be technically "illegal". In fact...it'd be basically announcing publically what many already knew. But we'd expect Tito to go into yo ass over it, and no one would likely bat an eye.

Nowadays....thanks to PC and bullying laws, the pussification of america would not only protect you, but would put Tito away for life for even looking at you wrong after such an announcement in the courtyard.

The country has gone to shit. Basically because we no longer hold anyone accountable for doing something we all know is WRONG, but not illegal.

[Trip]

I don't want to stop Westboro, I like their ability to say all the dumb shit they want in this country. No American should actively try to block them legally from being able to say dumb, other consequences that come from them saying dumb shit is fine with me. Got your tires slashed....oops....

I agree the information provided can be used to cause harm or prejudice against a person. I don't think it should be included as information you can get through FOIA, especially in the case where the lady was trying to hide from her stalker ex.

I definitely agree that there should be consequences for free speech beyond legality. Tito should punch you in the face. Westboro should be given hell by anyone and everyone. This paper should be boycotted by everyone who doesn't agree with them and attempt to get their advertisers to back out.

I think this is different though. I am not in favor of allowing the FOIA to give out this type of information, I blame ourselves, not the paper for allowing it. The paper is going to take advantage of shit to push it's agenda/reader base.

[Homeslice]

End of thread.

Hardly.

The vast majority of people, no matter what state they're from, had no idea that gun owner addresses are publically available. Still don't, even after that article. And even among the minority of people who DID/DO know that such info is available, they wouldn't bother lifting a finger to try and acquire it themselves.

[Papa_Complex]

I have to drown them now, no longer radioactive. :lol:

Flood gates open then.

[Trip]

Flood gates open then.

With the rain coming in, we might just open a few of them this week. LOL

[RACER X]

Check out this website



http://janethasson.com/




After Pinpointing Gun Owners, Paper Is a Target

By CHRISTINE HAUGHNEY

Published: January 6, 2013





Two weeks ago, the paper published the names and addresses of handgun permit holders — a total of 33,614 — in two suburban counties, Westchester and Rockland, and put maps of their locations online. The maps, which appeared with the article “The Gun Owner Next Door: What You Don’t Know About the Weapons in Your Neighborhood,” received more than one million views on the Web site of The Journal News — more than twice as many as the paper’s previous record, about a councilman who had two boys arrested for running a cupcake stand.



But the article, which left gun owners feeling vulnerable to harassment or break-ins, also drew outrage from across the country. Calls and e-mails grew so threatening that the paper’s president and publisher, Janet Hasson, hired armed guards to monitor the newspaper’s headquarters in White Plains and its bureau in West Nyack, N.Y.



Personal information about editors and writers at the paper has been posted online, including their home addresses and information about where their children attended school; some reporters have received notes saying they would be shot on the way to their cars; bloggers have encouraged people to steal credit card information of Journal News employees; and two packages containing white powder have been sent to the newsroom and a third to a reporter’s home (all were tested by the police and proved to be harmless).



“As journalists, we are prepared for criticism,” Ms. Hasson said, as she sat in her meticulously tended office and described the ways her 225 employees have been harassed since the article was published. “But in the U.S., journalists should not be threatened.” She has paid for staff members who do not feel safe in their homes to stay at hotels, offered guards to walk employees to their cars, encouraged employees to change their home telephone numbers and has been coordinating with the local police.



The decision to report and publish the data, taken from publicly available records, happened within a week of the school massacre in nearby Newtown, Conn. On Dec. 17, Dwight R. Worley, a tax reporter, returned from trying to interview the families of victims in Newtown with an idea to obtain and publish local gun permit data. He discussed his idea with his immediate editor, Kathy Moore, who in turn talked to her bosses, according to CynDee Royle, the paper’s editor.



Mr. Worley started putting out requests for public information that Monday, receiving the data from Westchester County that day and from Rockland County three days later. All the editors involved said there were not any formal meetings about the article, although it came up at several regular news meetings. Ms. Royle, who had been at The Journal News in 2006 when the newspaper published similar data, without mapping it or providing street numbers, said that editors discussed publishing the data in at least three meetings.



Ms. Hasson said Ms. Royle told her that an article with gun permit data would be published on Sunday, Dec. 23. While Ms. Hasson had not been at the paper in 2006, she knew there had been some controversy then. She made sure to be available on Dec. 23 by e-mail, and accessible to the staff if any problems came up. A spokesman for Gannett, which owns The Journal News, said it was never informed about the coming article.



“We’ve run this content before,” Ms. Hasson said. “I supported it, and I supported the publishing of the info.”



By Dec. 26, employees had begun receiving threatening calls and e-mails, and by the next day, reporters not involved in the article were being threatened. The reaction did not stop at the local paper: Gracia C. Martore, the chief executive of Gannett, also received threatening messages.





Many of the threats, Ms. Hasson said, were coming from across the country, and not from the paper’s own community. But local gun owners and supporters are encouraging an advertiser boycott of The Journal News. Scott Sommavilla, president of the 35,000-member Westchester County Firearm Owners Association, said 44,000 people had downloaded a list of advertisers from his group’s Web site. But he emphasized that his association would never encourage any personal threats. Appealing to advertisers, he said, is the best way for gun owners to express their disapproval of the article.



“They’re really upset about it,” Mr. Sommavilla said. “They’re afraid for their families.”



The paper’s decision has drawn criticism from journalists who question whether The Journal News should have provided more context and whether it was useful to publish individual names and addresses. Journalists with specialties in computer-assisted reporting have argued that just because public data has become more readily available in recent years does not mean that it should be published raw. In ways, they argued, it would have been more productive to publish data by ZIP code or block.



“The Journal News, I personally think, should have rethought the idea as actually going so far to identify actual addresses,” said Steve Doig, a professor with an expertise in data journalism at Arizona State. “This particular database ought to remain a public record. Just because it’s available and public record doesn’t mean we have to make it so readily available.”



Mr. Worley disagrees. “The people have as much of a right to know who owns guns in their communities as gun owners have to own weapons,” he said.



Mr. Doig pointed out that the recent publication of gun information by other papers has made access to this public information more difficult because legislators started blocking the data immediately. “The backlash, very typically from this, is for legislators to try to close up the access to this type of data.”



Mr. Worley said he had received mainly taunting phone calls sprinkled in with callers who said “you should die.” He found broken glass outside of his home and would not say how much time he was spending there right now. But he said he had largely been supported by the newsroom.



The Journal News’s features editor, Mary Dolan, said that while she was not involved with the publication of the article, her home address and phone numbers were published online in retaliation. She has had to disconnect her phone and has “taken my social media presence and just put it on the shelf for a while.” She has also received angry phone calls from former neighbors in Westchester whose gun information was published.



She said she was especially concerned about the part-time staff members who write up wedding anniversary and church potluck announcements who have been harassed. But she supports the paper for its decision.



“It sparked a conversation that needed to occur in this country, and it revealed tactics that will be employed when gun owners feel their rights are threatened,” she said.



Putnam County has refused to release similar data, but Ms. Hasson said she would continue to press for it. She would not say whether the paper had lost any of its advertisers. According to the Alliance for Audited Media, The Journal News, like many newspapers nationwide, has had sharp declines in circulation. Its total circulation from Monday through Friday fell from 111,536 in September 2007 to 68,850 in September 2012.



At the same time, Ms. Hasson has been trying to calm the nerves of her family after photographs of the home she is renting and references to her adult children were put online.



“They are concerned about my safety,” she said about her children. “But they are very supportive.”

[Homeslice]

Is that a man or a woman? lol
And it's pretty silly to mock her, since she works for Gannett, which owns tons of newspapers, not just that one. She probably never heard of the article until all the backlash came out. As a CEO, she is just a business manager, she has no involvement in editorial content. Plus I bet that particular newspaper represents less than 1% of Gannett's total circulation. It's basically a piddly little tabloid.

[CasterTroy]

Is that a man or a woman? lol
And it's pretty silly to mock her, since she works for Gannett, which owns tons of newspapers, not just that one. She probably never heard of the article until all the backlash came out. As a CEO, she is just a business manager, she has no involvement in editorial content. Plus I bet that particular newspaper represents less than 1% of Gannett's total circulation. It's basically a piddly little tabloid.

But bet there's a review in WHAT that silly 1% puts out from this point forward! As well as a review from every media outlet on HOW they handle PUBLICLY available information from this point forward.

[Papa_Complex]

Is that a man or a woman? lol
And it's pretty silly to mock her, since she works for Gannett, which owns tons of newspapers, not just that one. She probably never heard of the article until all the backlash came out. As a CEO, she is just a business manager, she has no involvement in editorial content. Plus I bet that particular newspaper represents less than 1% of Gannett's total circulation. It's basically a piddly little tabloid.

Funny thing: When you're a manager, you can't simply claim that you had no idea what your subordinates are doing. You're responsible for what they do, in your name.

[fasternyou929]

But bet there's a review in WHAT that silly 1% puts out from this point forward! As well as a review from every media outlet on HOW they handle PUBLICLY available information from this point forward.

Not only that, but whether she was invovled in the original decision or not she has definitely heard about it by now. And tacit compliance is still compliance.

[Homeslice]

All true, but it still seems rather silly. If I wanted to "pwn" someone at the newspaper and teach them a lesson, I'd focus on the person/people who actually wrote & approved the article.

[Trip]

Gawker throws its hat into the ring.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/01/08/gawker-publishes-n-y-c-gun-permit-holders/

[Homeslice]

What do you expect from NYC-area journalists, most of whom have never fired a gun in their lives.

[MikeSP1]

Would you really want to work for someone like that though? They are probably doing you a favor.

What my employer doesn't know, that does them no harm, should be of absolutely no consequence.

[Papa_Complex]

What do you expect from NYC-area journalists, most of whom have never fired a gun in their lives.

Why, the same thing that I expect from people in Toronto, which is a mostly Liberal stronghold where a city councillor recently suggest banning the sale of bullets within the city limits.

[OneSickPsycho]

http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/journal-news-gun-permit-map-used-by-burglars-to-target-white-plains-home-1.4441678

[MikeSP1]

http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/journal-news-gun-permit-map-used-by-burglars-to-target-white-plains-home-1.4441678

gonna be interesting to see what happens

[RACER X]

After the high impact Voter Fraud investigation released throughout 2012, Project Veritas, set its sights on top gun control advocates to see how they felt when placed in the same position as our nation's children – within a Gun Free Zone.

Project Veritas' found, James O'Keefe remarked, "Our nation's children spend the majority of their week within schools that are starkly emblazoned with signs that read 'Gun Free Zone.' Project Veritas put that same concept to the test with some of America's most fervent advocates for gun control."

Organizing as Citizens Against Senseless Violence, Project Veritas' citizen journalists went door-to-door in New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. to see which outspoken champions for Gun Control would be willing to declare their own home as a "Gun Free Zone" by placing a sign on their lawn.

O'Keefe continued, "It's amazing to see members of our media equivocate and contradict their spoken and written words when faced with the dilemma to declare their own homes as Gun Free. Surprisingly, we found that the homes of the very New York paper that was willing to put the lives and fortunes of gun owners at risk by publishing their names and addresses, were also the most heavily armed and protected. The hypocrisy of New York's Journal News is beyond words."

Project Veritas also paid a visit to Attorney General Eric Holder's home to see if the nation's top enforcer of gun restrictions would be willing to place a sign in front of his home that read, "This home is proudly gun free!"

O'Keefe concluded, "FBI Police confronted our reporters within minutes of their knocking on the Attorney General's home. Eric Holder is safe and sound under armed protection, unlike the nation's children."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1Zy_ASNyA&