Ok, Here we go.

[Gunther1000]

Has ANYONE ran a 120/60 and a 120/70 back to back and if so could you tell me your impression as to turn in and grip at lean angle. Maybe even bump absorbtion as well? I'm thinking of making a change but fear the loss of side grip as it is 3mm less on the stat sheet. :idk:

[the chi]

Maybe this might help a little...see bold...


http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Jun/e/n070611c.htm

The hot race tire diameter is something that changes every few years. Bigger or smaller, some company's engineers will find a breakthrough and all the others will follow. Michelin has introduced a 16-inch front tire for this MotoGP season and the others are now doing the same.

At today's MotoGP post-race test in Catalunya, Bridgestone will test a 16-inch front. Dunlop brought out theirs a few races back.

Michelin says their contact patch on the sixteen stays the same size all the way to full lean. Michelin also says the new tire on the different rim is five percent lighter. That is ultra-important since the 800cc MotoGP era is about corner speed and pushing the front, where the 990cc era was more about getting the massive power to the ground.

[jeeps84]

It depends on rim with. The shorter tires turn in slower and harder to pick up coming out of the corners.

[Gunther1000]

Sorry Rae, I'm talking about stock size 17" rims here.

I hear the 120/60 may turn in less due to the reduced (A) shape and more of a U, but I'm not sure on that one. Also the main concern is the less side grip? If there is any noticable difference in a 70 and 60 let me know.

Rear being a 190/55 vs stock's 190/50. If you notice here im going for more turn in not less. I'm thinking the rear will be enough but shit the 60 front might be win win if its not a huge traction problem.

[jeeps84]

IMO It flat'ns out the tire to much.

[smileyman]

My experience with the fronts is that the 60 is shorter and steepens the front end, speeding up turn in with less stability...Going to the 120/70 front raised the front and provided a slower turn but more stability.

My SV race bike came with the 60 series front and when I swapped to a 70 I raised the rear by almost a half inch to get it in the sweet spot. My ZX636 came with a 120/65 front and likewise when I switched to the 70 I had to raise the forks a little to get it back turning in sweetly...

[No Worries]

My experience with the fronts is that the 60 is shorter and steepens the front end, speeding up turn in with less stability...Going to the 120/70 front raised the front and provided a slower turn but more stability.

My SV race bike came with the 60 series front and when I swapped to a 70 I raised the rear by almost a half inch to get it in the sweet spot. My ZX636 came with a 120/65 front and likewise when I switched to the 70 I had to raise the forks a little to get it back turning in sweetly...

I agree. Putting the smaller-diameter 60 tire on the bike is almost the same as raising the forks above the triple clamp. Tightens the rake of the fork and quickens the steering, but stability is lessened.

[Gunther1000]

I hear you both and while I do know the effect it will have I don't have any ride experiance with a 60. So would anyone be able to tell me if they noticed any shortage of side wall traction in the 60 vs the 70? Thats my only question really...

[DLIT]

If it helps, I started on a '04 R6 and they came with a 60 series. My '06 had a 70 in it. The 60 turns in faster, but it's not as smooth as the 70 throughout the whole corner. That doesn't means it's bad, but after riding on both, I prefer the 70 over the 60. And I don't remember any shortage of sidewall traction. I had no chicken strips on my front of the '04 before I traded it in. I was running Pilot Powers. Tire make will make a difference. Not sure how big of a difference, but there will be one.

[smileyman]

I had no issues with outright traction on either. And that was at the race track. I mean either your in hot and the front pushes or it doesn't eh? I did notice the feel of the 70 being better on turn in due to the different profile. It was tippy even with the suspension adjusted. By that I mean countersteering it onto its side felt somehow better than the 60. More aggressive or confident. Perhaps it was just a placebo effect that gave me more confidence knowing there was extra traction there if I needed it.

This despite most of my front end slide experience came on worn 70 series tires. I did have more laps on the 70 than the 60 so there were more opportunities for front slides. Probably 9 outta 11 races were on the 70 series that year and I have never raced on anything but a 70 since. My ZX636 came with teh 65 size OEM but I converted to 70 with the very first set....

[Gunther1000]

Well, I may have to report back on this one as I plan to test a 60 very soon...

[marko138]

Fuck that 60.

[Gunther1000]

to anyone with a 190 rear If you dont already have the 190/55 vs the 50 your missing out! Big time! That extra turn in is great!

[jeeps84]

to anyone with a 190 rear If you dont already have the 190/55 vs the 50 your missing out! Big time! That extra turn in is great!

The 50 vs. 55 is a common swap. Not as drastic as 190 to 180 but that can be done too. Just depends what you need from your bike.

[Rider]

The 50 vs. 55 is a common swap. Not as drastic as 190 to 180 but that can be done too. Just depends what you need from your bike.

I need 60 degree lean angle at 150mph. :rockout:





















Yeah right. :panic:

[Gunther1000]

the profile of a 190 shits on the 180... Been there also. Go with the 190/55 if your looking for win win. No need to rob the contact patch at highway angles. 190 will last and has the same or better profile.

[smileyman]

Here we are debating the subtle nuances of which tire size works best with our chassis/suspension and the majority of guys I see riding on the street don't even know which pressures to run...

They don't even seem to mind other than they are black and round...

[the chi]

Here we are debating the subtle nuances of which tire size works best with our chassis/suspension and the majority of guys I see riding on the street don't even know which pressures to run...

They don't even seem to mind other than they are black and round...

:lol: Thats only too true!!

[dReWpY]

thats why we discuss it here, ppl might acutally be knowledgeable and have some expericance

[smileyman]

Well Itry not to be condesending, BUT...:sorry:

I recently rode with some liter bike guys (really good riders each one) wearing the latest in DOT race tires and found they had no idea that those tires were crap on the street. We were tearing up some Ozark highways and they were spinning everywhere unable to get them up to operating temperature. They were take offs of their race bikes and had been heat cycled to hell and back and were refusing to heat up even at lower psi on the cool fall highways.

I didn't say anything to them, just smiled smuggly as my 5000 mile old BT021 touring rubber with 36 psi in the rear hooked up and had great traction...I would have hated to have this 180 v 190 or 120/60 v. 120/70 conversation with them.

[Gunther1000]

Well Itry not to be condesending, BUT...:sorry:

I recently rode with some liter bike guys (really good riders each one) wearing the latest in DOT race tires and found they had no idea that those tires were crap on the street. We were tearing up some Ozark highways and they were spinning everywhere unable to get them up to operating temperature. They were take offs of their race bikes and had been heat cycled to hell and back and were refusing to heat up even at lower psi on the cool fall highways.

I didn't say anything to them, just smiled smuggly as my 5000 mile old BT021 touring rubber with 36 psi in the rear hooked up and had great traction...I would have hated to have this 180 v 190 or 120/60 v. 120/70 conversation with them.


Ya I hear ya. To each there own. I personally will never see myself running a race take off for any amount of price or savings. I simply ride in to many varying conditions to justify it. I prefer a good sport street tire that I know I can count on.

As to the 70 vs 60 thing, I'm pretty sure there wouldnt have been any loss of traction that I would have noticed but it was worth a try to see if anyone had a knowledgeable reply. Good or bad.

On a side note, I do like the new Brig. BT0-16's they heat up really quick and grip real predictable. I had them try to slide out twice with plenty of warning to get my shit together on the track. And they held up wear wise real nice.

[Rider]

On a side note, I do like the new Brig. BT0-16's they heat up really quick and grip real predictable. I had them try to slide out twice with plenty of warning to get my shit together on the track. And they held up wear wise real nice.

I have the OEM version of the BT016's they are decent but they have slipped on me a few times. I attribute that to cold tires though. They do not heat up as fast as PP's.

[the chi]

Race take offs for a novice on a track day are actually pretty decent, and you can pick them up at a much better price than buying a new set of tires but I would only recommend them on the TRACK.

[ceo012384]

to anyone with a 190 rear If you dont already have the 190/55 vs the 50 your missing out! Big time! That extra turn in is great!

I'm trying out a 190/55 (stock i have a 180/55) DOT race tire at some track days this weekend... should be fun ;)

[Gunther1000]

Race take offs for a novice on a track day are actually pretty decent, and you can pick them up at a much better price than buying a new set of tires but I would only recommend them on the TRACK.
Do you ever read a person's post before you throw your $.02 at it?

Or does that take away from your "it's all about ME" time?

Gheez.

[the chi]

Do you ever read a person's post before you throw your $.02 at it?

Or does that take away from your "it's all about ME" time?

Gheez.


Actually yes, and I was submitting my response to your statement you woud never run them. A newb could interpret that as them being bad or not an acceptable choice for a novice track day and we want as many people to get to the track as possible. Try looking at all the posts and pulling your head outta your ass before you show yours.

[jeeps84]

Actually yes, and I was submitting my response to your statement you woud never run them. A newb could interpret that as them being bad or not an acceptable choice for a novice track day and we want as many people to get to the track as possible. Try looking at all the posts and pulling your head outta your ass before you show yours.

Get'em Rae,

to all the Noobs out there. Stay away from the take-offs that are very blue on the edges. Those tires are cooked.

[Gunther1000]

Actually yes, and I was submitting my response to your statement you woud never run them. A newb could interpret that as them being bad or not an acceptable choice for a novice track day and we want as many people to get to the track as possible. Try looking at all the posts and pulling your head outta your ass before you show yours.

Riiiiiight, And that whole part about me riding in to many varying conditions part.... What would happen if said "unwise" newbie takes a little street trip on those really sweet track tires? Or riding to that track day like I had to do?

Fuck, You are very smart and are obviously the most track going person on the internet. That title you have. No question.

[ceo012384]

There is nothing wrong with takeoffs... I intend to run all my takeoffs on the street and/or sell them to street riders. Saves money and they always have tons of life left in the middle for street riding.
to all the Noobs out there. Stay away from the take-offs that are very blue on the edges. Those tires are cooked.
Depends... over time the oils in the rubber work their way to the surface and leave a blue tinge... doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the tire.

For example, if you do one trackday on a set of tires and then let them sit in your garage for a few months, they'll have that blue tinge on them... but they're perfectly fine.

[Gunther1000]

There is nothing wrong with takeoffs... I intend to run all my takeoffs on the street and/or sell them to street riders. Saves money and they always have tons of life left in the middle for street riding.

Depends... over time the oils in the rubber work their way to the surface and leave a blue tinge... doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the tire.

For example, if you do one trackday on a set of tires and then let them sit in your garage for a few months, they'll have that blue tinge on them... but they're perfectly fine.

You must have madd skilllz man! You ride Slicks in the freaking Rain! You da man!

:willy::rofl:

[ceo012384]

You must have madd skilllz man! You ride Slicks in the freaking Rain! You da man!

:willy::rofl:
Takeoffs don't have to be slicks, buddy. In fact I will likely never run slicks because then you're not supersport legal. Just run DOT's which have a little tread in the center and slick edges.

You can easily ride supersoft DOT race tires in the rain unless you're riding like a retard.

[smileyman]

Well, hell, I had better qualify my statement about take offs so no one will misconstrue it or get bent outta shape. Anything black and round holding air can be used on the street. I was just referring to some guys who should have known better riding very aggressively on DOT take offs that were very used up and getting really poor traction. These guys were not noobs, were good riders, but should have either been using a sticky street tire or maybe even a new track day tire to get their literbikes hooked up. The take offs were way used up in terms of heat cycles and tread wear and did not perform up to the potential of my old worn out sport touring tires...OK back to the bitch slapping...:twfix:

[jeeps84]

Depends... over time the oils in the rubber work their way to the surface and leave a blue tinge... doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the tire.

For example, if you do one trackday on a set of tires and then let them sit in your garage for a few months, they'll have that blue tinge on them... but they're perfectly fine.

Lil blue doesn't bother me. I'm talking about when the whole side is gummed and blue.

Well, hell, I had better qualify my statement about take offs so no one will misconstrue it or get bent outta shape. Anything black and round holding air can be used on the street. I was just referring to some guys who should have known better riding very aggressively on DOT take offs that were very used up and getting really poor traction. These guys were not noobs, were good riders, but should have either been using a sticky street tire or maybe even a new track day tire to get their literbikes hooked up. The take offs were way used up in terms of heat cycles and tread wear and did not perform up to the potential of my old worn out sport touring tires...OK back to the bitch slapping...:twfix:

Much better wanning. Take-offs can be a god send for sum and the Apocalypse for those that don't know or understand how to read a used tire. Even if you understand, its still a gamble.