Observations on braking...Long winded.

[smileyman]

So this is probably something you have all noticed, but it hit me all over again...The other weekend I was riding with some really powerful literbikes through the Ozarks and as the pace heated up, I found myself getting into "race mode" having to push my 636ccs harder to keep pace. Now save the preaching on proper time and place for another thread, I want to discuss braking.

I noticed I was rusty and as I started riding in a more track oriented spirit I started to lean off, get my body position right, get my downshifts right and timed, stopped using the rear brake and concentrated on the front. Then after struggling a few corners i realized i was still having trouble braking and getting slowed efficiently. I came to notice after a few miles it got better and looking back i realized I was using street/hiway braking technique at too high a pace and then eventually started braking like I would on track and became much more comfortable with the speed.

On the road you typically increase braking pressure as you near your stop or corner. Grab the brake, then slowly increase pressure until you have reached your desired lower speed or stop altogether.

On track you brake as hard and as late as you can, scrubbing off the majority of your speed, and then easing lever pressure as you reach your desired speed and line through the corner.

Using road technique had me way too deep in the corner before my brake pressure slowed me enough and had the forks so compressed that it made turn in feel wrong and unbalanced. I know this also slowed me thru the corner and made it that much harder to make time on the liter bikes (cause in a straight line fuggettaboutit.

Just my thoughts and observations, but I think technique places an imortant part in keeping everyone safe so:idk:What are your thoughts...

[the chi]

hmmm, i think you hit the nail on the head. I've noticed the same in myself. While I'm not condoning aggreesive riding on the streets, my "spirited" sunday rides have improved quite a bit since I started riding my bike similar to how I ride it on the track, and I have less pucker moments with my braking and going into turns!

[the chi]

Great post btw, you worded it beautifully!

[DLIT]

I really haven't noticed a difference. The two roads where track techniques can be used, ones a sweeper road where little hard braking is needed and the other has you too scared to get a ticket or wreck because the surface isn't the greatest. Occassionally I'll haul through there and I'll need to get on the brakes harder, but I tend to just adapt to it and don't notice my braking habits affecting my lines or anything.

I never need to brake as hard as I do on the track on the street. You just don't leave yourself with any room for error in case you come up on a road hazard if your front end is almost bottomed out braking, you know? I'd say I ride around 80% on the streets during spirited rides.

[smileyman]

Great post btw, you worded it beautifully!

Gee 'Tanks!:twfix:

[smileyman]

I really haven't noticed a difference. The two roads where track techniques can be used, ones a sweeper road where little hard braking is needed and the other has you too scared to get a ticket or wreck because the surface isn't the greatest. Occassionally I'll haul through there and I'll need to get on the brakes harder, but I tend to just adapt to it and don't notice my braking habits affecting my lines or anything.

I never need to brake as hard as I do on the track on the street. You just don't leave yourself with any room for error in case you come up on a road hazard if your front end is almost bottomed out braking, you know? I'd say I ride around 80% on the streets during spirited rides.

Well I went past 80% trying to keep up with bikes pushing 60 more HP. But I know the limits pretty well and never felt uncomfortable in my pace just my technique...

[DLIT]

Well I went past 80% trying to keep up with bikes pushing 60 more HP. But I know the limits pretty well and never felt uncomfortable in my pace just my technique...

I hear ya. I went past 80% the other weekend trying to keep up with a guy on a new 1000RR. I finally caught and passed him. It was a sweeper-type road and it was the fastest I've ever gone through there. It was such a rush!

[smileyman]

We're sick I tell ya sick! For the most part even a well ridden literbike can be kept up with, you just have to shift twice for every one of theirs. The longer straights where you have to run thru 3 gears are murder on our displacement though and you really have to hustle the corner to stay up...That ride I was only passed twice (both times in long straights) once by another Kawi 600 (drafting bastard) and once by a ZX10 that was on the howl! He muscled his way by effortlessly after I had balked at a corner warry of deer hunters on the side of the road (looked too much like a Forest Service Ranger or county LEO). The next straight was motor to motor and guess what, he won...

[DIMford]

I think this was good post. Nice to read about good riding technique and riding in general. It seems lately that alot of what's posted lately on the boards is not riding related.

[Trip]

Usually I am either all over the brakes (track technique) or barely use them at all.

[DLIT]

I think this was good post. Nice to read about good riding technique and riding in general. It seems lately that alot of what's posted lately on the boards is not riding related.

Lately? Always.

[No Worries]

I'm not a believer of using only the front brake, or of braking real hard for a corner. To me, coming out of the corner is the most important and the most fun.

Here's what Lee Parks in Total Control says: "anything that abruptly interferes with the suspension can cause a significant loss of traction. For this reason, it is important to apply the brakes simultaneously and as smoothly as possible."

Here's what Parks says about braking and suspension movement: "When using the brakes, be sure not to apply them too quickly. When this happens, the rear wheel is prone to skidding, and the front end will dive rapidly, causing major instability. A good measure of proper application is minimal suspension movement."

For me to take my old bikes quickly down a steep, twisty road like Lookout Mountain, I have to use both brakes. If I just use the front brake, the assistance of gravity and nose dive might be too much for my front tire. I also have to use the front and rear smoothly to keep the front end from bouncing up and down as I brake for the corner, lean, and accelerate to the next corner.

[Dnyce]

one thing some1 mentioned awhile back was not to weight the bars, have a loose upper body, etc when riding. that shit is a ridiculous ab workout to maintain that while on the brakes.

[jeeps84]

I use both front and rear on or off track. I usually cover the front softly settling the front suspension while trailing the rear till I make the transition to pull the trigger on the exit.

[Amber Lamps]

Congratulations! This is definitely a Tigger worthy thread! Hahahahaha.

Personally,I've totally lost it since my last deer encounter. I am however getting a handle on it again. One of my problems has been getting used to my bike again. I think that you are right about your braking issues and I think that you are on the right track to a cure. Good luck!

[Cutty72]

I learned at my track day that I rely too much on engine braking. It works well on the street, as I use the brakes sparingly, but on the track, hard late braking is key.

[FT BSTRD]

I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat.

My braking tends to be as much about chassis settling as speed reduction. Many times I will use the rear to scrub speed and trail brake as well as settle the chassis a little.

I've got really long suspenders up front, so hard braking tends to yield significant dive and chassis movement. Therefore, I work to scrub off the minimum amount of speed for the curve and trail brake with the rear to settle the chassis.

I think everyone's style is a little different. My style is dictated, to a certain degree by the bike.

[marko138]

I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat.

My braking tends to be as much about chassis settling as speed reduction. Many times I will use the rear to scrub speed and trail brake as well as settle the chassis a little.

I've got really long suspenders up front, so hard braking tends to yield significant dive and chassis movement. Therefore, I work to scrub off the minimum amount of speed for the curve and trail brake with the rear to settle the chassis.

I think everyone's style is a little different. My style is dictated, to a certain degree by the bike.
Play by the Buell's rules and they often reward you.

[No Worries]

I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat.

Then you would love riding up and down Lookout Mountain. There are no straights. It's one curve after another. Some are tight, and some are less tight. So most bikes are on an equal footing, especially going downhill. I saw two Buell's going down when I was going up today.

On the switchbacks or hairpins, how much entry speed do I want for a 15mph curve? Enough to keep from tipping over, but not so much I cross the double yellow. Here's what I think about when hitting such a curve. Both brakes on, downshift, look for my line (usually in one of the tire tracks), start leaning off the bike, look around the curve, don't cross the centerline, and don't go into or off the mountain. Then I can accelerate to the next curve.

Going uphill on many of the curves, you don't need the brakes, just engine braking and downshifting. What a terrific sound and what a feeling. But you most certainly need to use the brakes correctly to go quickly and smoothly downhill.

[FT BSTRD]

Then you would love riding up and down Lookout Mountain. There are no straights. It's one curve after another. Some are tight, and some are less tight. So most bikes are on an equal footing, especially going downhill. I saw two Buell's going down when I was going up today.

On the switchbacks or hairpins, how much entry speed do I want for a 15mph curve? Enough to keep from tipping over, but not so much I cross the double yellow. Here's what I think about when hitting such a curve. Both brakes on, downshift, look for my line (usually in one of the tire tracks), start leaning off the bike, look around the curve, don't cross the centerline, and don't go into or off the mountain. Then I can accelerate to the next curve.

Going uphill on many of the curves, you don't need the brakes, just engine braking and downshifting. What a terrific sound and what a feeling. But you most certainly need to use the brakes correctly to go quickly and smoothly downhill.

Sounds like East TN or North GA. That's where Buells shine. We're the fastest to 75mph, but back of the pack after that.

http://www.incorrect.org/coppermine/albums/buelltoberfest2008/normal_Buelltoberfest_2008_10_05_1280_033.JPG