Hybrids

[Hondahugger]

Alright, I know this isn't a 'Car Forum' but I was curious about something.

I bought my Ford Escape Hybrid SUV in August of 2007 and I LOVE IT! Currently I'm getting about 425 Miles out of a 13 gallon tank which averages to about 32 mpg. In school speed zones and anywhere I'm driving under 30 mph as long as I don't gun it upon take off, I can run it on battery which saves me even more.

I've heard several things from various people about ways to save on gas, like if I put it at cruise control on the highway at about 65 mph, it saves me more but I haven't confirmed this in any way.

Are there any other Hybrid owners that might have tips or suggestions on how to save more gas or imcrease or improve on the gas saving consumption?

[Ninjakel]

Sorry, I drive a gas guzzling F150 V8 :lol:

[marko138]

No hybrid here. Jeep Grand Cherokee.

[Corey]

I've heard several things from various people about ways to save on gas, like if I put it at cruise control on the highway at about 65 mph, it saves me more but I haven't confirmed this in any way.


Oh gosh, please don't. Maybe it's the horrendous road rage that consumes my driving soul, but people going 65 in a 70 are road hazards.

Now, if you're going 65 in a 35 or 45 on the other hand, please let me know where you drive so that I may plan my route accordingly to use you as a rabbit. :dthumb:

[JoshuaTree]

Sorry, I drive a gas guzzling F150 V8 :lol:

Me too - its my work truck (Electrician). Its difficult to find a fuel efficient vehicle that will accomodate an 8' ladder, bins of parts, and the plethora of tools used in trade work... :idk:

[Ninjakel]

Mine was my work truck, I used to work in construction equipment sales.

Now its just my paid off motorcycle hauler,grocery getter, and dog mover :)

[JoshuaTree]

I hope these are as good as they seem to be - whenever Mahindra gets around to importing them to the US...

http://www.mahindraautoworld.com/pikups_scorpio_singlecab_overview.aspx

[lauralynne]

Alright, I know this isn't a 'Car Forum' but I was curious about something.

I bought my Ford Escape Hybrid SUV in August of 2007 and I LOVE IT! Currently I'm getting about 425 Miles out of a 13 gallon tank which averages to about 32 mpg. In school speed zones and anywhere I'm driving under 30 mph as long as I don't gun it upon take off, I can run it on battery which saves me even more.

I've heard several things from various people about ways to save on gas, like if I put it at cruise control on the highway at about 65 mph, it saves me more but I haven't confirmed this in any way.

Are there any other Hybrid owners that might have tips or suggestions on how to save more gas or imcrease or improve on the gas saving consumption?

Ok - call me dense but 32 mpg is the your average gas mileage? for a Hybrid? I've never researched them but I always assumed they got more. I get 30mpg in my Honda minivan that's NOT a hybrid...I would have assumed double that for a hybrid.
So I'm missing the point of a hybrid somewhere then, honestly, can someone explain?

[derf]

LL, its a truck that with a regular engine gets less than 29mpg, so for that model its great mileage.

Hondahugger, I've seen people get thir gas mileage up to the theoretical 99mpg limit that the prius has on it's display software. That means taht that car was getting better than 100mpg. If you want to see what people are doing google the word "hypermilling". Alot of what they say is completely impractical, but will save fuel.

['73 H1 Triple]

Are there any other Hybrid owners that might have tips or suggestions on how to save more gas or imcrease or improve on the gas saving consumption?

As a driver of a 2500 Suburban which I use to to tow my 24' pontoon boat, don't drive like a moron on the interstate.

I use my cruise control to hold 68-70 mph in the 65 zones to flow with traffic. If you pass me in your hybrid going down the hill, I fully expect you to hold that speed going up the hill. The 6.0L with the tow package in my Suburban will hold speed going up hills.

When I come up behind you while towing as you slow to well below the speed limit going up the hill , get the fuck out my way so I can hold my speed.

Oh, if you think you're going to "road rage" me in your little tuna can, remember that an empty Suburban weighs over 6000 lbs ( plus my gear and the boat).

Rant off, Have a nice day :cheers:
Jeff

[OneSickPsycho]

Are there any other Hybrid owners that might have tips or suggestions on how to save more gas or imcrease or improve on the gas saving consumption?
Walk.

[Particle Man]

Are there any other Hybrid owners that might have tips or suggestions on how to save more gas or imcrease or improve on the gas saving consumption?
Ride a motorcycle...

[Sixxxxer]

I've heard that Using cruise Control actually DOESNT increase your Gas Mileage...Although I could be wrong

[Particle Man]

I've heard that Using cruise Control actually DOESNT increase your Gas Mileage...Although I could be wrong

well not if you set it at 85 :lol:

[Sixxxxer]

No i mean In general...Because while it remains the same speed...the Throttle is constanly moving to adjust for road conditions, hills, declines, Etc Etc and its really eating up more gas...I guess its all irrelevant

[Dave]

Ok - call me dense but 32 mpg is the your average gas mileage? for a Hybrid? I've never researched them but I always assumed they got more. I get 30mpg in my Honda minivan that's NOT a hybrid...I would have assumed double that for a hybrid.
So I'm missing the point of a hybrid somewhere then, honestly, can someone explain?

the point is feeling smug about fixing a problem that doesnt exist while living in total ignorance of the fact that the vehicles manufacture involves materials MORE damaging to said environment.. a total placebo

[101lifts2]

Ok - call me dense but 32 mpg is the your average gas mileage? for a Hybrid? I've never researched them but I always assumed they got more. I get 30mpg in my Honda minivan that's NOT a hybrid...I would have assumed double that for a hybrid.
So I'm missing the point of a hybrid somewhere then, honestly, can someone explain?


You're not getting 30mpg combined city/highway in a Honda Odyessy. Honda says 25mpg highway...not combined.
http://automobiles.honda.com/all-models.aspx

If you want to get better MPG, using the cruise control helps very little since on hills the engine tries to maintain the set speed. You are better off letting the vehicle slow down.

1. Accelerate slowly from lights.
2. Premium fuel will get you 1-2mpg because there is more energy content in higher octane fuel.
3. Remove any unnecessary weight.

32 with an SUV is good. You should be happy with those numbers.

[101lifts2]

As a driver of a 2500 Suburban which I use to to tow my 24' pontoon boat, don't drive like a moron on the interstate.

I use my cruise control to hold 68-70 mph in the 65 zones to flow with traffic. If you pass me in your hybrid going down the hill, I fully expect you to hold that speed going up the hill. The 6.0L with the tow package in my Suburban will hold speed going up hills.

When I come up behind you while towing as you slow to well below the speed limit going up the hill , get the fuck out my way so I can hold my speed.

Oh, if you think you're going to "road rage" me in your little tuna can, remember that an empty Suburban weighs over 6000 lbs ( plus my gear and the boat).

Rant off, Have a nice day :cheers:
Jeff

You also forgot to mention you are getting 13mpg pulling that boat. :lol:

[Gas Man]

Fuck all that!!

6.0 LS1 AWD
12.0 MPG average
16.0 MPG BEST EVER

But then again... homobrids can't do shit like this...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Vechicles/WHOA001.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/BDM/Dyno/BackdraftSuperflow005.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/BDM/Dyno/BackdraftSuperflow009a.jpg

And without AWD many would suck especially a RWD 6.0 version of mine
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Vechicles/Lookingood023.jpg

But I'm constantly towing with mine which is my complaignt with most smaller sized SUV and CUVs
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/Vechicles/Done029a.jpg

[Mr Lefty]

I've heard that Using cruise Control actually DOESNT increase your Gas Mileage...Although I could be wrong

depends on what you set it at....

my dad's V8 Tundra will get 25mpg doing 65 or less cruse or not. but step it up to 70 and you'll see 21 at most... go to 75 and your lucky to see 18.

the speed limits around his place are 70 and 75... he'll do 65. he stays to the right... and if he needs to pass does so quickly.

I could care less if your doing 10 over or 10 under... just fuck'n drive in the RIGHT lane unless you pass... and when you pass... FUCKING PASS THEM... don't fuck around.


on the Hybrid note... I rented a Prius when I got laid over in Seattle for a weekend... drove it down to Portland... LOVED IT... seriously contemplating getting one... obviously it doesn't have much power... but for just run'n around town it's awesome... and for the longer trips it's comfortable and sips gas. just gotta get over spending 15k+ for a car :panic:

[Dave]

hey gas dont you mean ls2? ;)

[Hondahugger]

Wow everyone, thanks for the input! I guess I just figured that there has to be a better way to get more has milage. Between driving the kids to school, work and personal driving, I'm just trying to get the most out of every gallon! I know that even though its an SUV, but as someone who shall remain nameless points out to me all the time, its a mini SUV and the mpg are going to be higher than a Suburban or other larger SUV, but I still want to get the most out of it. Over the last year and some months I have wondered how much I'm actually saving but without a true comparison, its hard to say.

[derf]

You probably spent a whole lot more than you could save. (sorry to make you feel bad).

The escape hybrid cost about 10k more than its conventional engined sybling. The hybrid gets 34, the standard gets 24mpg, (nice easy numbers to work with huh?).


Escape normal - $20k; average MPG - 24
Escape Hybrid - $30k average MPG - 34


If you put 15,000 miles on your car a year, and gas costs about $2 a gallon, the hybrid saves you $300/yr.

It would take over 20 years to make the difference back.

When compared with the smaller, gas-thrifty conventional Corolla, the Prius wouldn't equal the five-year costs unless it were driven 66,500 miles a year or gas reached $10.10 a gallon.

[speedylocksmith]

You probably spent a whole lot more than you could save. (sorry to make you feel bad).

The escape hybrid cost about 10k more than its conventional engined sybling. The hybrid gets 34, the standard gets 24mpg, (nice easy numbers to work with huh?).


Escape normal - $20k; average MPG - 24
Escape Hybrid - $30k average MPG - 34


If you put 15,000 miles on your car a year, and gas costs about $2 a gallon, the hybrid saves you $300/yr.

It would take over 20 years to make the difference back.

When compared with the smaller, gas-thrifty conventional Corolla, the Prius wouldn't equal the five-year costs unless it were driven 66,500 miles a year or gas reached $10.10 a gallon.She bought it used so she didn't pay near that price

[derf]

Whatever, she still probably paid a little too much, and it will take more than a few years of driving to recoup the extra cost of the hybrid.

What I'm trying to say is that in general people are better off buying a comparably sized standard car, the cost savings by not burning fuel doesn't equal out.

If you are really interested in saving money go out and find a comparably sized gas car, spend 1/3 more on gas, pocket the extra cash that you save by not buying a hybrid, and plant a fig tree in your backyard. This way you save the environment by planting a tree, you don't waste your money, and in a few months you will have some fresh figs to munch on.

Its a win win win situation, you are an environmental hero, rich, and have a full stomach, what more can you ask for?

[speedylocksmith]

Whatever, she still probably paid a little too much, and it will take more than a few years of driving to recoup the extra cost of the hybrid.

What I'm trying to say is that in general people are better off buying a comparably sized standard car, the cost savings by not burning fuel doesn't equal out.

If you are really interested in saving money go out and find a comparably sized gas car, spend 1/3 more on gas, pocket the extra cash that you save by not buying a hybrid, and plant a fig tree in your backyard. This way you save the environment by planting a tree, you don't waste your money, and in a few months you will have some fresh figs to munch on.

Its a win win win situation, you are an environmental hero, rich, and have a full stomach, what more can you ask for?true, hybrids are overpriced when new and it would take a few decades to break even based on the initial cost, but you do also get a tax break each year for owning a hybrid but I'm not sure how much that is.

[derf]

The maximum tax credit is $3000, and that is only if you buy new, the average tax credit is less than $1500. If you lease the lease company gets the tax credit not you

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/irs/article/0,,id=176409,00.html

[Rsv1000R]

The only hybrid that comes close to paying back the extra cost is GM's full sized SUV variant.
My LS6 averages 20-22 overall, and get's 28-29 highway @65-70, it also still gets 26 averaging 85+.

All of the highway driving I've done, cruise control saves gas.

2. Premium fuel will get you 1-2mpg because there is more energy content in higher octane fuel.
lifts you should know better than this dribble....

[Mr Lefty]

lifts you should know better than this dribble....

actually I think he's right about the premium... but the cost benefit isn't there...

[Hondahugger]

Whatever, she still probably paid a little too much 4 score and 7 years ago I took a dare from my step dad to prove that I could sell cars. I was about 19 and out to make a point. It was 3 days before Christmas and I had only been working at the dealership for about 2 months when I pulled a hat trick (selling 3 cars in one day). I collected the $500.00 bonus from the General Manager of the dealership as that was the spiff (additional bonus a GM sets every weekend for a goal that they set up in the Saturday morning sales meetings), put in my 2 week notice and collected the $500.00 from my step dad since that was the bet we had made. Needless to say, it was a very good Christmas that year!

Point is, I know what to do and say and look for when buying a vehicle. I've had several friends drag me along with them when they've purchased their vehicles. By the time we leave with said brand new vehicle, the Salesman hates me and the Finance Manager is looking for a bottle of Preperation H. I've actually been kicked out of a dealership before.

When I bought my Escape, I had my bluetooth in my ear and a friend from another dealership up north on the phone with me pulling carfax reports, Blue Book Values, etc on the Escape and the salesman didn't even know it.

The Bluebook at the time I bought it was $24,000.00, I paid $17,000.00 out the door.

In the last year and 3 months, I've put about 32,279 miles on it. DAM I DRIVE A LOT!!!! So, with that in mind, cost of vehicle, miles that I drive, I'm still kind of figuring that if it doesn't even out, it should come pretty close.

[Rsv1000R]

actually I think he's right about the premium... but the cost benefit isn't there...

Any links? Cause I disagree :idk:

It does tolerate more advance, which makes more power(usually) but it's energy content isn't higher. And some racing fuels contain oxidizers, which allows you to run richer which makes more power, But I've never seen any references that say it has more energy.

[derf]

The Bluebook at the time I bought it was $24,000.00, I paid $17,000.00 out the door.

In the last year and 3 months, I've put about 32,279 miles on it. DAM I DRIVE A LOT!!!! So, with that in mind, cost of vehicle, miles that I drive, I'm still kind of figuring that if it doesn't even out, it should come pretty close.

You aren't doing too bad actually, as far as gas savings vs cost of vehicle then. I'm guessing though that the car was already a year or 2 old, and it already had a few miles on it. So while according to the amount paid vs savings you are probably somewhere (by my guesstimation) about breaking even.

The only thing though is that now you are driving a 17k car that is 3 years old with 60k miles on. By that math will you still be driving a reliable car when you are ready to sell it, or when you want to move onto a new one in a few years?

Though 17k is a real good deal for a used hybrid, and that bluetooth in the ear while you negotiate is a great trick, but I prefer to be a dick about it and make the phone call in front of the salesman or manager, so I can watch their reaction when I repeat numbers bellow what is actually given to me.

[VatorMan]

Never been much of a gas saver-3/4 ton 4X4 Chevy, M/C that turns gas into noise instead of HP and a Corvette. I do have to say that I can get 28-30 MPG at 80 MPH in the vette. In 6th gear the tach hovers at 1400 RPM.

[Rider]

Now that gas is $1.88 a gallon you hybrid buying suckers are crying now that you spent an extra $10K on a vehicle.

[VatorMan]

Now that gas is $1.88 a gallon you hybrid buying suckers are crying now that you spent an extra $10K on a vehicle.

Serious. Can you imagine how many upside down loans are out there-dumping SUVs for a Prius ?

[Mr Lefty]

Any links? Cause I disagree :idk:

It does tolerate more advance, which makes more power(usually) but it's energy content isn't higher. And some racing fuels contain oxidizers, which allows you to run richer which makes more power, But I've never seen any references that say it has more energy.

I don't... I've read it a few places... doesn't mean it's correct though :lol:

Gas Man... can you chime in?

[Gas Man]

hey gas dont you mean ls2? ;)

Yeah whatever... its a cage... FTW

Now that gas is $1.88 a gallon you hybrid buying suckers are crying now that you spent an extra $10K on a vehicle.

No shit... got it for 1.80 yesterday... I can handle that!!

I don't... I've read it a few places... doesn't mean it's correct though :lol:

Gas Man... can you chime in?

Fuckin ignorance.... damn

come on ebbs... I have explained this like a bizzilion times... can't you find it.

Octane only works for you if your motor is setup for it. octane delays the combustion. If the motor is setup and you are getting pre-ignition knock, then you need a higher octane to delay the combustion.

If not setup to need the octane its a fuckin waste of money.

And "energy content"??? You're kidding right?

And don't even start saying "cleaner gas" either cause if you (anybody) does, you obvoiusly have no fuckin clue.

There is a reason why my screen name is Gas Man... and its not cause I fart allot.

[Mr Lefty]

well I knew you posted about the gas... just wasn't sure if it partained to octaine persey... but thanks for clear'n it up



oh and noobs... don't be fooled... dude is gasy as fuck

[Gas Man]

I fart in your general direct Sir Ebbs!!

[Mr Lefty]

I fart in your general direct Sir Ebbs!!

good thing I have my gas mask sitting right here

[Hondahugger]

I fart in your general direct Sir Ebbs!! omg now I want to watch Monty Python!

[Ninjakel]

Python rocks!! :)

[Hondahugger]

You just talked me into popping it in the DVD player! Something needs to make me fucking laugh!

[Ninjakel]

:lol:

I dont have it on DVD.

[Hondahugger]

:lol:

I dont have it on DVD.how could you not have python on DVD? That should be illegal!

[101lifts2]

depends on what you set it at....

my dad's V8 Tundra will get 25mpg doing 65 or less cruse or not. but step it up to 70 and you'll see 21 at most... go to 75 and your lucky to see 18.

the speed limits around his place are 70 and 75... he'll do 65. he stays to the right... and if he needs to pass does so quickly.

I could care less if your doing 10 over or 10 under... just fuck'n drive in the RIGHT lane unless you pass... and when you pass... FUCKING PASS THEM... don't fuck around.


on the Hybrid note... I rented a Prius when I got laid over in Seattle for a weekend... drove it down to Portland... LOVED IT... seriously contemplating getting one... obviously it doesn't have much power... but for just run'n around town it's awesome... and for the longer trips it's comfortable and sips gas. just gotta get over spending 15k+ for a car :panic:

Your not getting 25mpg with a Tundra V-8 at any steady no hill freeway speed. :bs

[Gas Man]

good thing I have my gas mask sitting right here

How come I believe you? Post a pic of it...

omg now I want to watch Monty Python!

Glad I could help.

[Ninjakel]

how could you not have python on DVD? That should be illegal!



I know, I know.

Its on my huge ass to do list:rockout:

[Particle Man]

I fart in your general direct Sir Ebbs!!

Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

[101lifts2]

.....Octane only works for you if your motor is setup for it. octane delays the combustion. If the motor is setup and you are getting pre-ignition knock, then you need a higher octane to delay the combustion.

If not setup to need the octane its a fuckin waste of money.

And "energy content"??? You're kidding right? .... .

Actually higher octane doesn't delay anything, but rather it has the ability to hold more heat energy as to not allow the surrounding fuel to self ignite.

And higher octane has slightly longer HC chains which in turn yeild more energy (though not too much). You will usually see 1-2mpg in a tank with premium fuel over non-premium fuel.

[101lifts2]

The only hybrid that comes close to paying back the extra cost is GM's full sized SUV variant.
My LS6 averages 20-22 overall, and get's 28-29 highway @65-70, it also still gets 26 averaging 85+.

All of the highway driving I've done, cruise control saves gas.

lifts you should know better than this dribble....

Its true RSV..the HC chains on avg. are longer and yelid more energy. I've even done several tests in my previous bike. Using the same station I always got 45mpg with 87 and 47 with 91...always.

Doubting though if your getting 20mpg you would see any difference.

[Mr Lefty]

Your not getting 25mpg with a Tundra V-8 at any steady no hill freeway speed. :bs

no hill... he's in Fargo... you can see for 3 counties if you stand on your tip toes...

it's an 07... 4.7 not the big 5.8L they came out with in 08.

but he's gotten 25 on more than a couple tanks keeping it under 65 (he lives a ways out so most of his driving is highway with little to no traffic).

[Amber Lamps]

4 score and 7 years ago I took a dare from my step dad to prove that I could sell cars. I was about 19 and out to make a point. It was 3 days before Christmas and I had only been working at the dealership for about 2 months when I pulled a hat trick (selling 3 cars in one day). I collected the $500.00 bonus from the General Manager of the dealership as that was the spiff (additional bonus a GM sets every weekend for a goal that they set up in the Saturday morning sales meetings), put in my 2 week notice and collected the $500.00 from my step dad since that was the bet we had made. Needless to say, it was a very good Christmas that year!

Point is, I know what to do and say and look for when buying a vehicle. I've had several friends drag me along with them when they've purchased their vehicles. By the time we leave with said brand new vehicle, the Salesman hates me and the Finance Manager is looking for a bottle of Preperation H. I've actually been kicked out of a dealership before.

When I bought my Escape, I had my bluetooth in my ear and a friend from another dealership up north on the phone with me pulling carfax reports, Blue Book Values, etc on the Escape and the salesman didn't even know it.

The Bluebook at the time I bought it was $24,000.00, I paid $17,000.00 out the door.

In the last year and 3 months, I've put about 32,279 miles on it. DAM I DRIVE A LOT!!!! So, with that in mind, cost of vehicle, miles that I drive, I'm still kind of figuring that if it doesn't even out, it should come pretty close.

Fair enough, but as a fellow ex-car salesman,we both know that had you purchased the non hybrid escape,you would have beat them up just as bad and probably paid a hell of a lot less considering that there are approximately 10 times more of the non-hybrid units out there for sale. Note NADA has the non hybrid at about 30% cheaper. One other thing...have you priced those batteries yet?


BTW on topic,you should regularly check your tire pressure and stay on top of your car's maintenance.

[Mr Lefty]

Fair enough, but as a fellow ex-car salesman,we both know that had you purchased the non hybrid escape,you would have beat them up just as bad and probably paid a hell of a lot less considering that there are approximately 10 times more of the non-hybrid units out there for sale. Note NADA has the non hybrid at about 30% cheaper. One other thing...have you priced those batteries yet?


BTW on topic,you should regularly check your tire pressure and stay on top of your car's maintenance.

big one right there.

[Gas Man]

Yeah I doubt the mpg increase from prem vs reg. Go talk to a engine builder... if the motor isn't built for the higher octane you're wasting your money.

Now granted I have had a car before that ran better on mid grade cause it was getting pre-ignition knock. So things happen.

But Ford's also made the Mustang GT to run on 87... but if you want to throw more timing at it... you'll need more octane.

[Amber Lamps]

Yeah I doubt the mpg increase from prem vs reg. Go talk to a engine builder... if the motor isn't built for the higher octane you're wasting your money.

Now granted I have had a car before that ran better on mid grade cause it was getting pre-ignition knock. So things happen.

But Ford's also made the Mustang GT to run on 87... but if you want to throw more timing at it... you'll need more octane.

Hey Gas,why is diesel fuel more expensive than gasoline? Someone asked me that yesterday,I guessed that it either one or a combo of these reasons;
1. it costs more/requires more effort to refine

2. it has higher taxes attached to it

3. the necessary additives increase the cost

4. the oil to fuel ratio is lower

So what is the primary reason?

[Mr Lefty]

up until Gas went over $2... diesel was always cheaper than even regular... :idk:

[101lifts2]

Yeah I doubt the mpg increase from prem vs reg. Go talk to a engine builder... if the motor isn't built for the higher octane you're wasting your money.

Now granted I have had a car before that ran better on mid grade cause it was getting pre-ignition knock. So things happen.

But Ford's also made the Mustang GT to run on 87... but if you want to throw more timing at it... you'll need more octane.

What does an engine builder know about chemical compounds? HIgher octane fuel has slightly longer hydrocarbon chains on avg. than lower octane, therefore resulting in a higher energy content. At 2 something a gallon the cost is not worth the potential 1-2 mpg more, but at 4-5 bucks a gallon the extra 20 cents may make more sense.

The main reason for higher octance is to resist knock, but that wasn't the discussion.

....So what is the primary reason?

Less refineries. Period.

[Rsv1000R]

What does an engine builder know about chemical compounds? HIgher octane fuel has slightly longer hydrocarbon chains on avg. than lower octane, therefore resulting in a higher energy content. At 2 something a gallon the cost is not worth the potential 1-2 mpg more, but at 4-5 bucks a gallon the extra 20 cents may make more sense.

The main reason for higher octance is to resist knock, but that wasn't the discussion.



Less refineries. Period.


I did some reading yesterday, and the point you're making about chain length does make some sense, Carbon-Carbon bonds have more energy than Carbon-Hydrogen bonds, But there was some hedging that most of the differences were due to density, not octane.

And everyone I've ever heard on the topic has said that higher octane doesn't improve mileage. I'd be surprised that you can measure a difference based on octane alone if your engine doesn't need higher octane or you don't adjust it for higher octane. Your bike just might need a bit more octane, hence the reason you get a 4-5% bump in mileage. And with more advanced engine management higher octane might very well give better mileage, but only be cause engine management retards the timing a bit with lower octane(in other words read your manual and use the fuel grade they tell you to).

[Rsv1000R]

So what is the primary reason?

From what I've read you get less diesel out of a barrel of oil, and there's more demand than supply.

[Amber Lamps]

From what I've read you get less diesel out of a barrel of oil, and there's more demand than supply.

That's what I thought too...

[101lifts2]

I did some reading yesterday, and the point you're making about chain length does make some sense, Carbon-Carbon bonds have more energy than Carbon-Hydrogen bonds, But there was some hedging that most of the differences were due to density, not octane.

And everyone I've ever heard on the topic has said that higher octane doesn't improve mileage. I'd be surprised that you can measure a difference based on octane alone if your engine doesn't need higher octane or you don't adjust it for higher octane. Your bike just might need a bit more octane, hence the reason you get a 4-5% bump in mileage. And with more advanced engine management higher octane might very well give better mileage, but only be cause engine management retards the timing a bit with lower octane(in other words read your manual and use the fuel grade they tell you to).

I have done this with my old SV and my EX500, both of which do not have spark knock control. I am not joking...I always got 2mpg more with using higher octane.

[101lifts2]

From what I've read you get less diesel out of a barrel of oil, and there's more demand than supply.


According to a 2007 study, 23% of the barrel of oil was used for heating oil and diesel fuel in the U.S. I am not sure if you can use more or less though.

[Rsv1000R]

I have done this with my old SV and my EX500, both of which do not have spark knock control. I am not joking...I always got 2mpg more with using higher octane.

I wasn't implying they did, But they could still like a little more octane, vs less. And if they both got 2 more mpg, I'd suggest it was density that increased.

[Gas Man]

up until Gas went over $2... diesel was always cheaper than even regular... :idk:
But in that time the EPA made us all run Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel.

[Dnyce]

you could also look at it like this-you werent getting more mpg with the higher octane, but by using the lower octane, it was killing your mpg by 1-2....

and you would be surprised what some engine builders knows about chemical compounds, they are some smart mofos...atleast the ones i know and learn from are

[Mr Lefty]

But in that time the EPA made us all run Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel.

ahh ok... yeah never knew why they kicked the price up so much

[Gas Man]

Well consider the ULSD opened a whole can of worms... made piping it more difficult. Hell, the machine at my work just to measure the ULSD cost like $20k and has to be serviced every year.

[Amber Lamps]

Well consider the ULSD opened a whole can of worms... made piping it more difficult. Hell, the machine at my work just to measure the ULSD cost like $20k and has to be serviced every year.

So it also costs more to refine... hey are you going to answer my question,oh guru of petroleum and petroleum based products....

[Gas Man]

Which question? This thread is spiriling out of control....

[Amber Lamps]

Hey Gas,why is diesel fuel more expensive than gasoline? Someone asked me that yesterday,I guessed that it either one or a combo of these reasons;
1. it costs more/requires more effort to refine

2. it has higher taxes attached to it

3. the necessary additives increase the cost

4. the oil to fuel ratio is lower

So what is the primary reason?

There ya go,Gas...

[Gas Man]

Hey Gas,why is diesel fuel more expensive than gasoline? Someone asked me that yesterday,I guessed that it either one or a combo of these reasons;
1. it costs more/requires more effort to refine
I'm not sure about that... the lower gravity fuels I believe fall out first as they heat the crude. However, my knowledge is limited on the refining process.

2. it has higher taxes attached to it
That would be state to state difference, however I don't believe so.

3. the necessary additives increase the cost
Well there are additives in both gas and fuel. The ULSD has a lubricity additive because the lack of sulfer which acts as a lubricant. Fuel also has a de-gelling agent so it doesn't get all gelled up at low temps. And as discussed many times, the gasolines have additives as well for milage enhancers, detergants, ect. So I would say they are equal in additives. TILL...

You take into consideration that in the winter (non RVP season) many tank farms add in butane into the gasoline. Its cheaper per gallon and basically they blend it in and make money off it.

4. the oil to fuel ratio is lower

what ratio?

So what is the primary reason?

Answered somewhat above