Battle Rifle

[Dova80]

So lets say you get a 1200 dollar cap, which battle rifle would you get?

Ar15?
hK 91(or copy)?
M14?

[Mudpuppy]

AR 15 is a bad ass gun..

I do like the AK47, SKS, M4 Carbine, M1 as well though..

[Dova80]

But the AR has a gas recoil system which is prone to getting dirty and jamming. Also its a 5.56 vs a 7.62 of the 91/M14. The 91 used a delayed roller system which is tried and proven to be a great rifle.

[Mudpuppy]

But the AR has a gas recoil system which is prone to getting dirty and jamming. Also its a 5.56 vs a 7.62 of the 91/M14. The 91 used a delayed roller system which is tried and proven to be a great rifle.

Yes definitely a trade off.. I love the 7.62 round and I am very fucking deadly accurate with that round.. But when I shot the AR 15 I fell in love - that gun is just fucking magic.. i think it is worth the extra maintenance and hassle.. But I am looking into buying an SKS or AK47 just to get an economy assault rifle and of course the 7.62 round as well.. the AK is the obvious choice and a very popular gun for a good reason - price wise and performance wise it's a winner.. i don't know though i am just not a fan of the M14.. so if you are torn between M14 and HK like it sounds you are go with the HK..

[Dova80]

Yes definitely a trade off.. I love the 7.62 round and I am very fucking deadly accurate with that round.. But when I shot the AR 15 I fell in love - that gun is just fucking magic.. i think it is worth the extra maintenance and hassle.. But I am looking into buying an SKS or AK47 just to get an economy assault rifle and of course the 7.62 round as well.. the AK is the obvious choice and a very popular gun for a good reason - price wise and performance wise it's a winner.. i don't know though i am just not a fan of the M14.. so if you are torn between M14 and HK like it sounds you are go with the HK..

Na the M14 is thrown in there for fun, I am really torn between the 91 (actually a PTR) and a AR 15....


I seem to think I am leaning toward the 91, as it is a 308 and is a bit more versatile, while having shot a ar 15 i have a problem with the spring when I shoot it. I can hear it through the stock.. :( But I do admit it is a damn nice rifle hence my problem.

[Dragonpaco]

once again, i ask for a gun section.

i'd go with the hk, just because it's an hk. the ak is great if you are on a budget and don't need to shoot cigarettes out of you enemies mouths. but the hk has reliablility and precision

[Dova80]

once again, i ask for a gun section.

i'd go with the hk, just because it's an hk. the ak is great if you are on a budget and don't need to shoot cigarettes out of you enemies mouths. but the hk has reliablility and precision

I would not get an HK due to the fact I wouldnt want to shoot it. A real HK I would just want to keep after dropping 2-3k for it, but a PTR-91 which is almost a HK 91 for around 1k can be had made from HK's old tooling, old blue prints, but made here in the states. Its heavy, but a damn solid battle rifle.

[Mudpuppy]

Na the M14 is thrown in there for fun, I am really torn between the 91 (actually a PTR) and a AR 15....


I seem to think I am leaning toward the 91, as it is a 308 and is a bit more versatile, while having shot a ar 15 i have a problem with the spring when I shoot it. I can hear it through the stock.. :( But I do admit it is a damn nice rifle hence my problem.

i don't recall hearing the spring but then again i shot a government issue AR 15 that you probably can't buy.. personally i have been building up my functional guns that i use often - not that i wouldn't have a use for an assault rifle (especially with the imminent economic collapse) but it's not too often you need a zombie killer.. i currently have a Ruger P95DC 9mm - great shooting gun and so fucking easy to field strip and clean it's stupid.. then i have an old somewhat rare 16 gauge Mossberg i use for skeet and small game.. then i have a Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag 12 gauge - primarily got that for duck hunting but I got it because it can be used for everything from small game with 2-3/4 shells all the way up to polar bear with the 3-1/2" magnums.. ok maybe i would polar bear hunt with it but due to the dates of manufacture they were able to make a more powerful round than any 10 gauge whose dates of manufacture go back to the 1800s so they must limit the power (amount of gunpowder) in the 10 gauge rounds.. then finally i have a 50 cal inline blackpowder rifle just for deer hunting.. so now that i have my complete versatile collection for home defense and hunting i need to consider an assault rifle just because you never can own too many guns.. and when i get that i am then going to start buying high powered rifles starting with the 300 savage police sniper rifle..

[Dragonpaco]

like i said it's a great rifle. i went with the ak, but that was because i found it for an awesome price and i don;t want to snipe mosquitos off of a pubic hair

[Dova80]

i don't recall hearing the spring but then again i shot a government issue AR 15 that you probably can't buy.. personally i have been building up my functional guns that i use often - not that i wouldn't have a use for an assault rifle (especially with the imminent economic collapse) but it's not too often you need a zombie killer.. i currently have a Ruger P95DC 9mm - great shooting gun and so fucking easy to field strip and clean it's stupid.. then i have an old somewhat rare 16 gauge Mossberg i use for skeet and small game.. then i have a Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag 12 gauge - primarily got that for duck hunting but I got it because it can be used for everything from small game with 2-3/4 shells all the way up to polar bear with the 3-1/2" magnums.. ok maybe i would polar bear hunt with it but due to the dates of manufacture they were able to make a more powerful round than any 10 gauge whose dates of manufacture go back to the 1800s so they must limit the power (amount of gunpowder) in the 10 gauge rounds.. then finally i have a 50 cal inline blackpowder rifle just for deer hunting.. so now that i have my complete versatile collection for home defense and hunting i need to consider an assault rifle just because you never can own too many guns.. and when i get that i am then going to start buying high powered rifles starting with the 300 savage police sniper rifle..


exactly its just a matter of the zombie scenero ya know? I think i am leaning really hard toward the 91 (or clone) just because who doesnt need an EBR(Evil black rifle)

[Mudpuppy]

exactly its just a matter of the zombie scenero ya know? I think i am leaning really hard toward the 91 (or clone) just because who doesnt need an EBR(Evil black rifle)

no argument from me.. it's kind of like motorcycles - i have my personal favorites but i respect everyone that rides a motorcycle and of course think you can't own too many motorcycles..

[Dova80]

no argument from me.. it's kind of like motorcycles - i have my personal favorites but i respect everyone that rides a motorcycle and of course think you can't own too many motorcycles..



But the AR is a solid proven rifle as well... I am trying to figure out if its the HK rifle that makes me want it, the caliber, or the non gas recoil system. I want both but dont have the money for both jus yet...

[Dragonpaco]

probably a combo of the fact it's an hk and the caliber

[Dova80]

probably a combo of the fact it's an hk and the caliber

I would like a Class III but its just to bloody much money, but that EBR looks so damn sexy. I tend to think its just more of a solid rifle than the AR... I think.. lol

[Dragonpaco]

i want a class 3 just so i could do the painfully easy conversion of my ak and not get spanked by BATF

[Dova80]

i want a class 3 just so i could do the painfully easy conversion of my ak and not get spanked by BATF

buy a sear, and get a gun pre-1986

[Dragonpaco]

still illegal without the permit that takes upward of a year to get plus it lets uncle sam stop by for coffee whenever he wants.

[Dova80]

still illegal without the permit that takes upward of a year to get plus it lets uncle sam stop by for coffee whenever he wants.

4-8 months for ATF to say yes or no... and I agree with the latter. But certainly dont want to break the law it will be another ruby ridge or waco texas

[was92v]

There are only two rifles that I've really ever had any interest in owning, though I have neither. An HK91 and an M1 Garrand. The HK because of all that it is and the M1 because of all that it was.

[Dova80]

There are only two rifles that I've really ever had any interest in owning, though I have neither. An HK91 and an M1 Garrand. The HK because of all that it is and the M1 because of all that it was.

um have an M1 already it is one hell of a machine...

and the 91 I do not have ... but certainly want.

[ericr]

Honestly it would depend on the battle which one I'd want! :D

I picked the AR for all around use though. The .308 is definitely a harder hitting, longer range round, no arguing that. The .223 round however is smaller and lighter so you can carry more ammo (the reason the military switched in the first place). The .223 is cheaper too, way cheaper so target shooting and plinking is not going to break your wallet as quickly. The modern AR's are not that prone to malfunctioning like the first AR 15/M16 was and that bad rap has stayed around since the early days of the Vietnam war.

I would love to have an M14, they're great guns. I'd love to have an HK 91too and I passed on one back in the mid 90's once that I wish I'd gotten. It was a new/unused select fire gun for $2k, I'd have just had to get a stamp. It would be worth a lot more now, wish i had it.

[Antwanny]

we have an m1a1 and an ar15 hbar i prefer the m14 just because i love thta beast but the ar is a better more multipurpose gun even with the hbar. My bias i picked the m14
________
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[nhgunnut]

While I love the 7.62x51 give the current political climate I would be going with the AR. As noted in other posts, the Stoner designed gas system is prone becoming dirty. Using the right ammo and regular cleaning will eliminate most concerns.
One of the nicer features of the AR is that they modular so with one lower receiver you can swap on upper receivers in different configurations and calibers.
Also since the only part of the Stoner design that is controlled is the lower receiver (should the law ever require you to surrender your rifle the lower receiver is easily stripped away leaving you the rest of the rifle) There are several legal ways to build a legal non-registered lower receivers for this rifle it would be my pick.
The HK while an excellent design, is considerably more difficult to build and take down (welded Trunion )
Politically, banning the importation of foreign parts and magazines seems likely. I am factoring that into all of my battle rifle decisions thses days

[fnfalman]

A real man would use an FN FAL copy, but for the sake of this poll, the HK91 clone will do.

[Lamnidae]

A real man would use an FN FAL copy, but for the sake of this poll, the HK91 clone will do.

FAL's are great rifles.


I vote HK91 clone.




BTW, went to a blehhh gunshow today. Actually had a bunch of Class III dealers in with slicked-up MP5's w/ silcencers, nice Styres and some good ol' classic Uzis. Did have a nice thompson too.... But wayyyy wayy overpriced on everything there.

Thinking about getting me a Class III. That'd be fucking hot.

[Smittie61984]

There are only two rifles that I've really ever had any interest in owning, though I have neither. An HK91 and an M1 Garrand. The HK because of all that it is and the M1 because of all that it was.

My buddy has the M1 (And I think the HK91 too). I love the M1 to death. But damn you had to be a fucking man in WWII to haul that bitch around. I grabbed it the other night then grabbed his tactical AR-15. The difference is amazing.

I like the AR15s. But Colts not the Bushmaster. My buddy's dad owns I think 5-7 AR15s. He had a Bushmaster but that jammed like crazy and now it's wrapped around a tree. The AR15s are freaking tanks. I couldn't imagine how many rounds we have put through those guns. They are far more dependable than they use to be.

They aren't as battle worthy as the AK47 but that's because the AK47 was built so shitty that it works great. But unless you plan on waging war against the US in the swamps of the south. You shouldn't notice the difference.

[Mikey]

HK. The AR is a chunk of shit- I'm convinced that people only buy them because they look cool and the M14 isn't really a contender. The HK is a damn nice piece that'll do anything you ask of it.

[Dragonpaco]

against the US in the swamps of the south. You shouldn't notice the difference.
or in the sands of the desert, or in woods of the east coast, or in the mountains of the north or in the central plains. the AR is a nice rifle if you want to show off at the range, except chances are everyone there already has one and wont pay attention to yours. i'd go with a ak-74 with a quad rail if you want something to shoot .223 and have all kinds of fun add ons

[Dave]

do yourself a favor and grab a springfield m1a socom 16. i fucking love mine, and unlike other m14 clones its compensator allows rapid firing.

personally, i want to snag myself a fn fs2000 before the new gun bans start

['73 H1 Triple]

Na the M14 is thrown in there for fun, I am really torn between the 91 (actually a PTR) and a AR 15....


I seem to think I am leaning toward the 91, as it is a 308 and is a bit more versatile, while having shot a ar 15 i have a problem with the spring when I shoot it. I can hear it through the stock.. :( But I do admit it is a damn nice rifle hence my problem.

i don't recall hearing the spring but then again i shot a government issue AR 15 that you probably can't buy.. [snip] ..

It's very easy to reduce the spring "boing" as I'm sure Mudpuppy's armorer used. You some put gun grease in the spring tube to reduce the spring noise.

There are only two rifles that I've really ever had any interest in owning, though I have neither. An HK91 and an M1 Garrand. The HK because of all that it is and the M1 because of all that it was.

My buddy has the M1 (And I think the HK91 too). I love the M1 to death. But damn you had to be a fucking man in WWII to haul that bitch around. I grabbed it the other night then grabbed his tactical AR-15. The difference is amazing.

I like the AR15s. But Colts not the Bushmaster. My buddy's dad owns I think 5-7 AR15s. He had a Bushmaster but that jammed like crazy and now it's wrapped around a tree. The AR15s are freaking tanks. I couldn't imagine how many rounds we have put through those guns. They are far more dependable than they use to be.

They aren't as battle worthy as the AK47 but that's because the AK47 was built so shitty that it works great. But unless you plan on waging war against the US in the swamps of the south. You shouldn't notice the difference.

My Bushmaster AR-15 DCM weighs more than my Garand due to the lead in the forearm and stock. ( for you people wondering WTF, weight is added to target rifles to help hold the sights on target )

Different years of manufacture between the Bushy and the colt will deliver different amounts of quality control. I would suspect that there was either wear, dirt or a botched gunsmithing on the bushmaster. I have one and it's flawlessly.

A real man would use an FN FAL copy, but for the sake of this poll, the HK91 clone will do.

Another nice shooting weapon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Seneca%20Arms%20Co/DCP_1722A.jpg
I used my L1A1 when I started shooting NRA High Power Competition.

Then I purchased my M1 Garands thru the CMP
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Seneca%20Arms%20Co/DCP_1710CF.jpg
Springfield

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Seneca%20Arms%20Co/DCP_1713A.jpg
International Harvester

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Seneca%20Arms%20Co/DCP_1718CF.jpg
Bushmaster DCM AR-15

Jeff

[Dragonpaco]

the funny thing about the fs2000 and the gun ban is, there will never be a case of a criminal using an fs2000 in a robbery, mostly due to the fact that upon seeing the criminal has the fs2000, the person being robbed will immediatly try and buy it from them

[Dova80]

I already have two M1's very nice weapons got them through the DCM shoots ( Ithink thats the name of it)

I do like the FN but would rather get a 91 series rifle. because its just that bad ass. lol

[Dave]

so i was just perusing bushmaster's site and they are now offering a $400 pushrod conversion kit. looks universal...if i end up going back to iraq you can bet im gonna sneak one in. fucking hate direct impingement.

[Dova80]

so i was just perusing bushmaster's site and they are now offering a $400 pushrod conversion kit. looks universal...if i end up going back to iraq you can bet im gonna sneak one in. fucking hate direct impingement.



Not owning a AR wtf is a pushrod conversion?

[Dave]

long story short it corrects a fifty year old mistake in almost every AR

[Dova80]

long story short it corrects a fifty year old mistake in almost every AR

lol alright

[derf]

Ar 15, long barrel, m4, collapsable stock, piston recoil system (yes it does exsist), and a red dot or laser pointed sight

[nhgunnut]

If anyone has a experience installling the AR piston kit I would be interested is hearing from you either here or by email. I like the idea (big fan of AK's here) I Still regret passing on a Daewoo wich is close to being piston driven AR.
One of my favorit AR's is a 50 Beowulf , these and the 45 Socom turn the AR into a great little 150 yard thumper. Either of them will stop anything that walk in Noth America and a good chunk of what rolls

[Dragonpaco]

do i have to bust out the ak vs ar15 vs mosin list?

[Dave]

ever considered an ar 180?

[Dova80]

ever considered an ar 180?

Looked it up and not really a fan of it...

[Adeptus_Minor]

I voted AR simply because of parts availability (well, when the parts makers and resellers get them stocked back up from the buying frenzy).

But if we're going to dream... you know, there is a company selling semi-auto conversions of the venerable old BAR. :whistle:
(it'd break your $1800 cap, though)

[Lamnidae]

do i have to bust out the ak vs ar15 vs mosin list?

Yes Please.


<~~ got a Mosin and SK, like the AK's got to play with one kinda while in the stan. Not so much a fan of the AR's.

[nhgunnut]

do i have to bust out the ak vs ar15 vs mosin list?
Dod whaIdo get some of both

[Dragonpaco]

Dod whaIdo get some of both

and after getting some of both i should get drunk and type?

[Dave]

Looked it up and not really a fan of it...

the ar18 has a great history with anyone who actually used it (IRA called it the widowmaker, even wrote songs about it) and the action itself was widely copied

[Dova80]

the ar18 has a great history with anyone who actually used it (IRA called it the widowmaker, even wrote songs about it) and the action itself was widely copied

Yea but I would rather get a 91 than the ar18

[Rider]

I'd pick the AR15, but I wish it was a 7.62 round. I'm not a fan of the 5.56 but it is a far more accurate cartridge. Oh and forget about the FMJ's. I want round with the ballistic nosler tip so that it mushrooms up nice and fat on impact. :dthumb:

[nhgunnut]

and after getting some of both i should get drunk and type?

the sad part Is I dont drink

[Dave]

frangible ;)

[nhgunnut]

I'd pick the AR15, but I wish it was a 7.62 round. I'm not a fan of the 5.56 but it is a far more accurate cartridge. Oh and forget about the FMJ's. I want round with the ballistic nosler tip so that it mushrooms up nice and fat on impact. :dthumb:
Several companies make 7.62x39 uppers makes are an issue, you can do a search for AR47 to see yet another interesting option. in 308 DPMS, and Armalite make a version of the AR in 7.62 x 51
I mentioned it ealier in this thread but you might check Alexander Arms 50 Beowulf it throws a 334 grain round ou the end of e 16 inch barrel at 1900 fps ( gives you about the same ballisting as a 45/70) all on a standard AR lower

[fnfalman]

What kills me about the Mattel crowd is that they tout the "interchangeability" of the M16 system as though it's a freakin' mantra.

"Oops, excuse me, Mr. Taliban, you are too far away from me, let me switch from my M4 upper to an M16A2 upper".

"Oops, excuse me, Mr. Bad Guy, you're indoors, so let me switch my upper to a 14" tactical entry ninja by Wilson Combat with laser pointer. But when you run outside, you gotta stop and give me a chance to switch out my 6-position collapsible stock for a side-folding stock with Aimpoint night sight."

"And if there were 10-bad guys coming at me, I gotta make sure I have the C-Mag Beta Drum in place. And if I were in the Arizona desert, I gotta have the HK mag with teflon coating, but if I were to be in the swamp of Florida then I gotta pack my Mag-Pul P Mags with green followers."

Jesus H. Christ, shoot the fucking guns already. The AK-47 doesn't have any apologies or excuses.

[Dragonpaco]

the ak has to apologize for their drum mags being so expensive and in such short supply, and for not having a beta mag, because those are just cool as hell

[smileyman]

HK hands down. It is the total package. However they have special AR15 in 308 that are custom and a very nice tool for any job!

[nhgunnut]

the ak has to apologize for their drum mags being so expensive and in such short supply, and for not having a beta mag, because those are just cool as hell

Just curious what are you pay for Romanian 75 round drums I am still seeing them for 199. What is the price of the Beta's these days?
I Do Like the Modular Features of the AR platform, but my primary rifle will always be an AK in 7.62x39 Plenty of thump no need to expand on impact accurate "enough" and you almost need a welding torch to jam one.
On the build list for me is a 12 gauge AK of some kind, An AK in 308 (Just cause I want to do it) and a SBR 223 AK with an A2 Flash Hider so it will accept my Gemtech Halo. (I have a lot of Russian 223 ammo so why not)
I like the HKs as well as the Galil's but don't personally find the the improvements over the AKs enough to warrant the cost.

[Dragonpaco]

Just curious what are you pay for Romanian 75 round drums I am still seeing them for 199. What is the price of the Beta's these days?
I Do Like the Modular Features of the AR platform, but my primary rifle will always be an AK in 7.62x39 Plenty of thump no need to expand on impact accurate "enough" and you almost need a welding torch to jam one.
On the build list for me is a 12 gauge AK of some kind, An AK in 308 (Just cause I want to do it) and a SBR 223 AK with an A2 Flash Hider so it will accept my Gemtech Halo. (I have a lot of Russian 223 ammo so why not)
I like the HKs as well as the Galil's but don't personally find the the improvements over the AKs enough to warrant the cost.

the drum mag for the ak i found for 189 but it's still pretty expensive for only a mag. the beta mags for the AR range anywhere between 200 and 400 and they already have a 12 ga ak. it's the saiga 12 and they have 20 round drum mags for it that cost 175. they have a 308 ak and a .223 ak (the ak-74) and there are build kits for all of them ranging from 200-400

[Lino]

AR15 FTW

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u192/pichichi13/HPIM0878.jpg

[Mudpuppy]

AR15 FTW

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u192/pichichi13/HPIM0878.jpg

hard to argue with that..

[fnfalman]

Get some!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlsXmZpOzqI

[nhgunnut]

THey12 ga ak. it's the saiga 12 and they have 20 round drum mags for it that cost 175. they have a 308 ak and a .223 ak (the ak-74) and there are build kits for all of them ranging from 200-400
I know the straight "Sporting versions of the rifle and shotguns are available. My goal as much for the process as the product is to "Build"/Convert them much in the style of Tony's work at tromix.com.
and while the 223 version of the AK is based in part on the AK74 the 74 chambers the 5.45x39 round (nasty little fucker that is a lot of fun to shoot) I built one from a bulgarian kit about 3 years ago it is a hoot!.
I believe there is a different designation for the AK in the 5.56 x 45 round but at the moment it slips what is left of my aging mind.
Here just for giggles is My AK74 and My 50 Beowulf (AK74 is a Global Trades Reciever and the AR is a Standard Olympic and a comparison shots of the AMMO

[Dragonpaco]

the saiga 12 can be bought in a tactical configuation from atlantic firearms, as well as the .223 version if you want i can give you a hand finding the right one for you.

[nhgunnut]

the saiga 12 can be bought in a tactical configuation from atlantic firearms, as well as the .223 version if you want i can give you a hand finding the right one for you.

I know they are available complete, for me the process of building it is as important as the product. (they taught me the valuse of arts and crafts back at the home)

[Dragonpaco]

fine mr. bossy i'll find you a kit and put it on my DP's gun deal of the week

[t-homo]

That bullpup looks badass.

[derf]

If anyone has a experience installling the AR piston kit I would be interested is hearing from you either here or by email. I like the idea (big fan of AK's here) I Still regret passing on a Daewoo wich is close to being piston driven AR.
One of my favorit AR's is a 50 Beowulf , these and the 45 Socom turn the AR into a great little 150 yard thumper. Either of them will stop anything that walk in Noth America and a good chunk of what rolls

AR piston kit is a pretty straight forward install, just pay attention and it is easy. It also solves the carbon buildup that is a problem on the ar15/m16/m4 family of rifles. it is a much better system than is currently produced and fixes 99% of the malfunction problems with the gas setup.

[Adeptus_Minor]

You know, speaking of AR gas systems, I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned the Robinson XCR.
Granted, it doesn't fit the "classic battle rifle" theme, but it does have a growing fan base. Hell, I'd own one if I had the budget for that kind of purchase right now.

http://www.robarm.com/

[Lamnidae]

Jesus H. Christ, shoot the fucking guns already. The AK-47 doesn't have any apologies or excuses.



Probably one of the best posts I've ever read by you......

[nhgunnut]

fine mr. bossy i'll find you a kit and put it on my DP's gun deal of the week
Ok I a guess I am a cranky ole bastard..:sorry: I know where to find the parts Just like I know where to find My new 1198... finding the money right now is the challange

[Dragonpaco]

well gary coleman likes to use payday loans...

[nhgunnut]

well gary coleman likes to use payday loans...

Hmmmmm ... NO! HelL I would use the redneck credit card first, (Handgun at a liquor store)

[Dragonpaco]

gary coleman at a liquor store would work better

[Mudpuppy]

You know, speaking of AR gas systems, I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned the Robinson XCR.
Granted, it doesn't fit the "classic battle rifle" theme, but it does have a growing fan base. Hell, I'd own one if I had the budget for that kind of purchase right now.

http://www.robarm.com/

that is a bad ass gun.. wonder how much they want for one of those? $3-$5,000 would be my guess..

[Corey]

that is a bad ass gun.. wonder how much they want for one of those? $3-$5,000 would be my guess..

http://www.robarm.com/products.asp?cat=10

Depends on how you spec it out.

[Mudpuppy]

http://www.robarm.com/products.asp?cat=10

Depends on how you spec it out.

nice.. thanks.. actually not too bad on price..

[tallywacker]

Well I have an AR-15 with all the goodies like a eotech sight and a Yankee Hill barrel