View Full Version : Jett Travolta
John Travolta, his kid had autism but his fucktard scientology beliefs made him refuse to accept that and get his kid real help, so instead his kid had "kawasaki syndrome" (I guess they are scared of ninja's so they have seizures) and died from the incorrect treatment for his disease because it would make him less of a person in scientologist eyes.
askmrjesus
01-05-2009, 10:30 PM
Fuck that, GW is worth more to me than any piece of trash celebrity. Take for example, John Travolta, his kid had autism but his fucktard scientology beliefs made him refuse to accept that and get his kid real help, so instead his kid had "kawasaki syndrome" (I guess they are scared of ninja's so they have seizures) and died from the incorrect treatment for his disease because it would make him less of a person in scientologist eyes.
A: removed to get rid of GW crap
B: Autism does not cause seizures at any age (Travolta's kid reportedly had them from an early age) as far as I know, so what are you basing you're online diagnosis on?
C: If anything, the kid was mistreated for Kawasaki syndrome (an overwhelming desire to paint everything a hideous shade of green and lose races?) and not mis-diagnosed.
D: Just sayin'.
JC
Papa_Complex
01-06-2009, 08:26 AM
C: If anything, the kid was mistreated for Kawasaki syndrome (an overwhelming desire to paint everything a hideous shade of green and lose races?) and not mis-diagnosed.
Except in Canada, where it is known as "Suzuki Syndrome."
B: Autism does not cause seizures at any age (Travolta's kid reportedly had them from an early age) as far as I know, so what are you basing you're online diagnosis on?
C: If anything, the kid was mistreated for Kawasaki syndrome (an overwhelming desire to paint everything a hideous shade of green and lose races?) and not mis-diagnosed.
D: Just sayin'.
JC
A. It's not my diagnosis, but something being reported by people who aren't scared of scientology. Travolta has already sicked his lawyers on those news networks.
B. Autism has been known to be associated with seizures in some patients, it's not a huge percentage, something like 15-30%.
C. It wasn't misdiagnosis, it was a choice to publicly deny. Several autistic associations and known celebrities with autistic kids privately called him out for it too.
There is more to this story and I doubt the truth will ever get out to the mainstream public, all I know is medical experts doubt it had anything to do with kawasaki disease.
http://www.webmd.com/news/20090105/kawasaki-disease-no-travolta-death-link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_us/med_travolta_s_son_seizures
Some good snippets from this article:
A Travolta attorney said the teen had a history of seizures, and John Travolta has said his son was successfully treated when he was 2 for a rare disease called Kawasaki syndrome, which can lead to heart disease and related problems.
Medical specialists who did not treat the boy told The Associated Press on Tuesday that while Kawasaki syndrome is poorly understood, it's extremely unlikely the disease had anything to do with the teen's death.
Gossip magazines and blogs long have suggested the boy also had autism — a claim John Travolta denied. Autism is frequently accompanied by seizures that experts believe may stem from the same brain abnormalities that cause the developmental disorder.
Dr. Michael Kohrman, a University of Chicago pediatric neurologist, said up to one-third of children with autism have some sort of seizure disorder.
"We're dealing with a massive lack of information," Cohen said.
Erase the evidence
Jett Travolta's body was cremated, and the autopsy report has not been released.
Kawasaki syndrome, the disease the family has said sickened Jett when he was a toddler, can cause inflammation in blood vessels and arteries. It typically features a persistent high fever accompanied by symptoms that can include bloodshot eyes; swelling in hands, feet and neck lymph nodes; a red rash on the arms and legs; and cracked, swollen lips.
Most cases occur in the first five years of life, and if treated promptly with aspirin and intravenous gamma globulin, children are essentially cured, said Dr. Cody Meissner, chief of pediatric infectious diseases at Tufts Medical Center in Boston.
While inflammation can sometimes lead to burst arteries or heart damage, Meissner said most children have no complications. And those who do would develop them soon after diagnosis — not several years later, Meissner said.
"If 10 years or more had gone by, it would be very unlikely that seizure activity could be attributed to Kawasaki disease," Meissner said.
lauralynne
01-06-2009, 08:52 PM
why are we even DEBATING THIS????
A father lost his son. A son is supposed to burry his father, not the other way around. We'll never know what really happened. IT DOESN"T MATTER. John Travolta is the only one with all the details and he is the only one who has to live with his parenting decisions the rest of his life. Good bad or otherwise. We all parent to the best of our abilities.
RIP Jett. Regardless of circumstances.
Cause we can and cause I think there might be a legal case here if the son had a medical condition that the father chose to neglect because of cultish beliefs.
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 08:59 PM
where did my post go? :wtf:
fatbuckRTO
01-06-2009, 09:00 PM
why are we even DEBATING THIS????
A father lost his son. A son is supposed to burry his father, not the other way around. We'll never know what really happened. IT DOESN"T MATTER. John Travolta is the only one with all the details and he is the only one who has to live with his parenting decisions the rest of his life. Good bad or otherwise. We all parent to the best of our abilities.
RIP Jett. Regardless of circumstances.Fair points. I believe we're debating this because the "Church" of Scientology is a blight on society.
where did my post go? :wtf:
quiet you
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 09:03 PM
Fair points. I believe we're debating this because the "Church" of Scientology is a blight on society.
get this man a beer :beer:
Fair points. I believe we're debating this because the "Church" of Scientology is a blight on society.
I want those tax benefits they get dammit.
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 09:04 PM
quiet you
fuck you! you don't own this place... wait... well... fuck you anyways
fuck you! you don't own this place... wait... well... fuck you anyways
:gary:
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Fuck'n scientologist
Fuck'n scientologist
I will sick Thetans on your ass, you fuckin SP. I am sending you a declare notice.
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 09:10 PM
:panic: oh no... I'll get the Westboro folks and Fred Phelps himself to ban you all to hell!
Particle Man
01-06-2009, 09:10 PM
this thread has turned into something from The Twilight Zone :lol:
The whole Scientology thing with medical treatment always makes me ill.
Adeptus_Minor
01-06-2009, 09:13 PM
Tom Cruise will send you all to the cornfield.
"http://www.metacafe.com/watch/28351/tom_cruise_joins_the_dark_side/">Tom Cruise Joins The Dark Side</a> - <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/">The funniest videos are a click away</a></font>
VatorMan
01-06-2009, 09:24 PM
Why does anyone fight them ? They die-don't reproduce-Religion dies. It's the way of the world.
theres clearly only one thing to do...sink the boat. middle of the cruise
Particle Man
01-06-2009, 09:28 PM
Why does anyone fight them ? They die-don't reproduce-Religion dies. It's the way of the world.
because it cloggs the airwaves and robs us of quality programming.
:)
Everyone must disconnect from Ebbs
Particle Man
01-06-2009, 09:43 PM
er....
Sixxxxer
01-06-2009, 09:45 PM
LMFAO...Trip That was Great
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 09:45 PM
does this mean I can't wear my shirt anymore?
lmao! raccoon ref ftw!
it's cause the sci's call people who still practice their religion, but don't buy their stuff from the religion "squirrels", so I changed it to raccoons for Ebbs.
does this mean I can't wear my shirt anymore?
that and were gonna send people to korea to warn the locals about your hater status
Flexin
01-06-2009, 09:47 PM
why are we even DEBATING THIS????
A father lost his son. A son is supposed to burry his father, not the other way around. We'll never know what really happened. IT DOESN"T MATTER. John Travolta is the only one with all the details and he is the only one who has to live with his parenting decisions the rest of his life. Good bad or otherwise. We all parent to the best of our abilities.
RIP Jett. Regardless of circumstances.
RIP Jett
But it does matter to some people. Knowing what happened can help others. Or it might not. Some people are just nosey.
I lost my daughter and I liked when people asked questions.
James
does this mean I can't wear my shirt anymore?
Shirt, I was under the impression it was crates of shirts.
that and were gonna send people to korea to warn the locals about your hater status
make sure they call him a criminal and pedophile, it's how we operate.
it's cause the sci's call people who still practice their religion, but don't buy their stuff from the religion "squirrels", so I changed it to raccoons for Ebbs.
ahh that tidbit i didnt know. i thought it was just another random shot at those two :rockwoot:
Shirt, I was under the impression it was crates of shirts.
make sure they call him a criminal and pedophile, it's how we operate.
shit were gonna tell folks he regularly rides the straps in the donkey show
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 09:55 PM
that and were gonna send people to korea to warn the locals about your hater status
Well I'm headed to MS in 27 days so....
Shirt, I was under the impression it was crates of shirts.
well yeah... but can I still wear them? :lol:
shit were gonna tell folks he regularly rides the straps in the donkey show
no... you've gotta tell LIES...
fatbuckRTO
01-06-2009, 09:59 PM
Everyone must disconnect from Ebbs
:lol: I lol'd, and I only understood about half of the references
Well I'm headed to MS in 27 days so....
well yeah... but can I still wear them? :lol:
no... you've gotta tell LIES...
FINE...hes a very nice guy and you can trust him with your children
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 10:10 PM
FINE...hes a very nice guy and you can trust him with your children
oh you sonnova bitch! I've got a bag of shit with you're name on it... just sign the UPS reciept so I know you got it...
Gas Man
01-06-2009, 10:24 PM
For what it is worth kawasaki's is a real thing. It is generally a disease that comes over infants. However, when I was 8 years old on Thanksgiving day, I came down with it and couldn't walk that morning. Was rushed to Motts Childrens hospital, which is a part of U of M medical in Ann Arbor. One of the leading childrens hospitals in the country. At the time they didn't know what it was. In the weeks and months following, they also discovered that I had developed MVP (Mitral Valve Prolapse) as a side effect to it. I had to go like 4 times a year for a LONG time to get echo's and stress tests. I have now also been diagnosed by a Henry Ford specialist with Cadio Hyper Sensativity (lamons term).
Its all very real.. luckily my MVP was never bad enough to warrent any medication or vlv repairs/transplants.
For what it is worth kawasaki's is a real thing. It is generally a disease that comes over infants. However, when I was 8 years old on Thanksgiving day, I came down with it and couldn't walk that morning. Was rushed to Motts Childrens hospital, which is a part of U of M medical in Ann Arbor. One of the leading childrens hospitals in the country. At the time they didn't know what it was. In the weeks and months following, they also discovered that I had developed MVP (Mitral Valve Prolapse) as a side effect to it. I had to go like 4 times a year for a LONG time to get echo's and stress tests. I have now also been diagnosed by a Henry Ford specialist with Cadio Hyper Sensativity (lamons term).
Its all very real.. luckily my MVP was never bad enough to warrent any medication or vlv repairs/transplants.
Did you ever have seizures with it?
For what it is worth kawasaki's is a real thing. It is generally a disease that comes over infants. However, when I was 8 years old on Thanksgiving day, I came down with it and couldn't walk that morning. Was rushed to Motts Childrens hospital, which is a part of U of M medical in Ann Arbor. One of the leading childrens hospitals in the country. At the time they didn't know what it was. In the weeks and months following, they also discovered that I had developed MVP (Mitral Valve Prolapse) as a side effect to it. I had to go like 4 times a year for a LONG time to get echo's and stress tests. I have now also been diagnosed by a Henry Ford specialist with Cadio Hyper Sensativity (lamons term).
Its all very real.. luckily my MVP was never bad enough to warrent any medication or vlv repairs/transplants.
that why you sold the ten? relapse?
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 10:34 PM
that why you sold the ten? relapse?
it was a 9...
eh thats wierd i remembered it being a ten *scratches head
Gas Man
01-06-2009, 10:41 PM
Did you ever have seizures with it?
Nope.
And no, it had nothing to do with my bike change
Nope.
That's why I was making fun of it, because they are making up symptoms to go along with this disease he didn't have and doing it poorly because they don't want to admit what he really had because of Scientology.
Gas Man
01-06-2009, 11:20 PM
That is cause his dad is an asshat!
lauralynne
01-06-2009, 11:42 PM
Cause we can and cause I think there might be a legal case here if the son had a medical condition that the father chose to neglect because of cultish beliefs.
Because his beliefs don't align with the majority there's a legal case? His son was in no way neglected, if he refused treatment there's NO LAW against that.
If my child had cancer and I refused chemo and brought them home to die, it's my right to do that. Is it different than what most people would do? Yes. Is it wrong because of that? No.
Mr Lefty
01-06-2009, 11:48 PM
Because his beliefs don't align with the majority there's a legal case? His son was in no way neglected, if he refused treatment there's NO LAW against that.
If my child had cancer and I refused chemo and brought them home to die, it's my right to do that. Is it different than what most people would do? Yes. Is it wrong because of that? No.
in my opinion YES it is.
in Trip's opinion... it is in Jett's case.
I had a niece who had a very rare syndrome which was un or misdiagnosed for 9 years. They didn't have it right for a long time because she had seizures and most kids (high mortality rate with this syndrome) don't have them. Right before her 11th birthday she had a seizure that ultimately took her life.
My sister agreed to extraordinary medical measures to help keep her daughter going for those 11 years. I don't really want to go into the details but I don't know that I could or would have allowed all the things my sister allowed. I don't think reasons matter. What I mean is, none of us know the truth about this other than his son died. We don't know what his son's quality of life was. Maybe his choices were for religious reasons but I personally think "we" sometimes play "God" too much where medical care is concerned and sustain lives when maybe we shouldn't. Was he being negligent or humane? I don't know.
Mr Lefty
01-07-2009, 12:01 AM
I had a niece who had a very rare syndrome which was un or misdiagnosed for 9 years. They didn't have it right for a long time because she had seizures and most kids (high mortality rate with this syndrome) don't have them. Right before her 11th birthday she had a seizure that ultimately took her life.
My sister agreed to extraordinary medical measures to help keep her daughter going for those 11 years. I don't really want to go into the details but I don't know that I could or would have allowed all the things my sister allowed. I don't think reasons matter. What I mean is, none of us know the truth about this other than his son died. We don't know what his son's quality of life was. Maybe his choices were for religious reasons but I personally think "we" sometimes play "God" too much where medical care is concerned and sustain lives when maybe we shouldn't. Was he being negligent or humane? I don't know.
if the person has the will to live... then do everything you can... sustain'n lives where the person has given up is pointless... in the case of people you can't determine their wishes... it's up to the family... I can't knock them for wanting to go to the ends of the earth to extend the life of their loved one... sometimes... they just can't bring themselves to make the CHOICE to give up. as was the case with my mother and her mother. My grandma had cancer and was on her deathbed... had been on a resparator for months... and slipped into a coma. the cancer spread through out her body and there was no way she was coming back. but my mother couldn't make the CHOICE to end her life. that was impossible for her.
I would hate and come back to haunt anybody who kept me alive if I had crappy quality of life. If I took the time to tell you about all of the things they did to my niece over the years that caused her so much pain and often did little or no good, maybe you'd get where I'm coming from a little more. I guess the bottom line is, we really don't know all of the intimate details and I just can't judge one way or the other.
Mr Lefty
01-07-2009, 12:15 AM
I would hate and come back to haunt anybody who kept me alive if I had crappy quality of life. If I took the time to tell you about all of the things they did to my niece over the years that caused her so much pain and often did little or no good, maybe you'd get where I'm coming from a little more. I guess the bottom line is, we really don't know all of the intimate details and I just can't judge one way or the other.
if that last treatment... the very last one... had worked and she lived even till she was 20... would you still have the same view? would the pain then not be worth it?
I completely understand what your saying... but I think the fact that it didn't work makes it seem all so pointless...
just wondering... but was your niece aware? I mean did she know she had this problem and it was taking her life? like was her problem one that impared communication of her view and opinion on the matter?
Because his beliefs don't align with the majority there's a legal case? His son was in no way neglected, if he refused treatment there's NO LAW against that.
If my child had cancer and I refused chemo and brought them home to die, it's my right to do that. Is it different than what most people would do? Yes. Is it wrong because of that? No.
It's a case of religious motivated medical neglect if he refused to get treatment for a condition based on religious beliefs. I consider that child abuse. If your child dies because you are an ignorant fuck, you should be in jail. I don't know if the Bahamas have laws in place for this, but some places do consider it illegal. It's the Bahamas though, they are real lax.
Rider
01-07-2009, 08:40 AM
You can file this topic under the "I don't give a fuck" basket.
azoomm
01-07-2009, 08:41 AM
It's a case of religious motivated medical neglect if he refused to get treatment for a condition based on religious beliefs. I consider that child abuse. If your child dies because you are an ignorant fuck, you should be in jail. I don't know if the Bahamas have laws in place for this, but some places do consider it illegal. It's the Bahamas though, they are real lax.
I am curious why Scientology is "ignorant" but other religions are not...
I am curious why Scientology is "ignorant" but other religions are not...
I consider anyone who would deny medical treatment to a child because of a belief as ignorant. This includes atheists, christians, buddhists, muslims, anyone else you want to name.
I remember reading about a similar case in the states where the people were prosecuted for not getting medical treatment for their very sick daughter and they were fundamentalist christian, I consider that on the same level as this.
Particle Man
01-07-2009, 08:53 AM
I am curious why Scientology is "ignorant" but other religions are not...
cuz the Inquisition was just a pre-superbowl party gone bad.
That's what happens when someone forgets to order the pizza.
Mr Lefty
01-07-2009, 08:58 AM
cuz the Inquisition was just a pre-superbowl party gone bad.
That's what happens when someone forgets to order the pizza.
I thought it was because they forgot the dip... :idk: but pizza makes more sense...
I thought it was because they forgot the dip... :idk: but pizza makes more sense...
No the Jews forgot to bring the dip to Hitler's sweet sixteen, the inquisition was all about the pizza not ordered.
Mr Lefty
01-07-2009, 09:12 AM
AHH ok... yeah... I always get my history mixed up...
and Pol Pot's wrath was because of someone taking the last juice box...
azoomm
01-07-2009, 09:16 AM
AHH ok... yeah... I always get my history mixed up...
and Pol Pot's wrath was because of someone taking the last juice box...
Now, if it would have been the last beer like in the Bolshevik Revolution....
Mr Lefty
01-07-2009, 09:19 AM
Or the power outage durring the last 15 minutes of the game that caused the Nanking Massacare
if that last treatment... the very last one... had worked and she lived even till she was 20... would you still have the same view? would the pain then not be worth it?
I completely understand what your saying... but I think the fact that it didn't work makes it seem all so pointless...
just wondering... but was your niece aware? I mean did she know she had this problem and it was taking her life? like was her problem one that impared communication of her view and opinion on the matter?
No, the pain would not have been worth it I don't think. The reason I am saying this is because the last treatment they were giving her was human growth hormone to try and get her to grow so that they could do surgery using tissue/bone (I don't remember exactly what) to fix her trachea so she could MAYBE breathe without her tracheostomy. The negative effects of that did not outweigh the possible positive.
Even if it hadn't probably caused her seizure, (threw off her daily anti-seizure dosage) which isn't what killed her really, it was oxygen deprivation because the nurse (she had nurses 24/7) couldn't get the oxygen tank valve open immediately, the anti-seizure meds my sis had didn't help, the paramedics took too long to get there, and then they didn't have anti-seizure meds they should have had with them, all of which resulted in multiple organ failure, it really didn't do what it was supposed to and did a lot of things that just weren't good.
And we don't know what she was aware of. She was never able to speak, having had a trach since infancy. She did have cognitive thinking abilities and learned some sign language but, we never really knew what she thought about anything.
Again I will say, we don't know the details. And even if we did, we don't know what its like to have to choose medical treatments that often cause as much harm as good for someone we love. If he wasn't a Scientologist, but didn't believe in taking extraordinary measures to sustain a life because of that, would he be bashed for it? If his intentions REALLY were because he didn't want to see his son suffer, would that make it OK? I think it's more our fear of death and letting go of someone that causes people to cling to life, often times irrespective of it's quality.
Mr Lefty
01-07-2009, 09:27 AM
No, the pain would not have been worth it I don't think. The reason I am saying this is because the last treatment they were giving her was human growth hormone to try and get her to grow so that they could do surgery using tissue/bone (I don't remember exactly what) to fix her trachea so she could MAYBE breathe without her tracheostomy. The negative effects of that did not outweigh the possible positive.
fair enough... usually people get kinda blinded by the idea of just one more treatment and it'll all be worth it. type mentality. and having never been in that situation I can't cast judgment on it... but I know just from being near my mom at the time of my grandmothers death... It'd be insanely hard for me to end a loved ones life... even if they were just a shell of their former self.
Even if it hadn't probably caused her seizure, (threw off her daily anti-seizure dosage) which isn't what killed her really, it was oxygen deprivation because the nurse (she had nurses 24/7) couldn't get the oxygen tank valve open immediately, the anti-seizure meds my sis had didn't help, the paramedics took too long to get there, and then they didn't have anti-seizure meds they should have had with them, all of which resulted in multiple organ failure, it really didn't do what it was supposed to and did a lot of things that just weren't good.
And we don't know what she was aware of. She was never able to speak, having had a trach since infancy. She did have cognitive thinking abilities and learned some sign language but, we never really knew what she thought about anything.
interesting... for me that's what really matters... what does the person want? if they're just tired of living... let them go!... nothing more cruel than force'n someone through painful treatment after painful treatment for selfish reasons
Again I will say, we don't know the details. And even if we did, we don't know what its like to have to choose medical treatments that often cause as much harm as good for someone we love. If he wasn't a Scientologist, but didn't believe in taking extraordinary measures to sustain a life because of that, would he be bashed for it? If his intentions REALLY were because he didn't want to see his son suffer, would that make it OK? I think it's more our fear of death and letting go of someone that causes people to cling to life, often times irrespective of it's quality.
I am not talking about taking extraordinary measures like experimental operations or last ditch efforts, I am talking simple standard health care throught the kids life. This isn't a case of not being able to afford that either, he could of bought Jett his own top of the line hospital.
This is more like say someone had a mental disorder, well that mental disorder is easily treatable with a little pill (not saying Jett's was, just an example.) The parent refuses to accept that mental disorders exist and that people who have them are lesser human beings because they can't will their way to being healthy and normal, so they don't allow the kid to take the meds. Well the kid goes insane and starts harming people and finally kills a bunch of people including himself. Would you consider that neglect?
CrazyKell
01-07-2009, 10:04 AM
why are we even DEBATING THIS????
A father lost his son. A son is supposed to burry his father, not the other way around. We'll never know what really happened. IT DOESN"T MATTER. John Travolta is the only one with all the details and he is the only one who has to live with his parenting decisions the rest of his life. Good bad or otherwise. We all parent to the best of our abilities.
RIP Jett. Regardless of circumstances.
Thank you. I will never understand the morbid curiosity of the general public.
Avatard
01-07-2009, 11:38 AM
I am curious why Scientology is "ignorant" but other religions are not...
:dthumb:
Homeslice
01-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Because Scientology is all about giving up thousands of dollars of your money, mandatory, in order to acheive enlightenment.......That's a little different than a real religion.
BTW, is Kawasaki Syndrome a legitimate disease recognized by real doctors? Or is it one of those things like "energy deficiency syndrome" that isn't accepted by most?
Rider
01-07-2009, 11:53 AM
Because Scientology is all about giving up thousands of dollars of your money, mandatory, in order to acheive enlightenment.......That's a little different than a real religion.
BTW, is Kawasaki Syndrome a legitimate disease recognized by real doctors? Or is it one of those things like "energy deficiency syndrome" that isn't accepted by most?
I'm pretty sure it's real. The son of a close friend of ours had it when he was young. He is 10 and he is perfectly normal now.
Rsv1000R
01-07-2009, 12:25 PM
Some of the reports I heard said medical officials said Jett was getting the anti-seizure medicines he needed.
Just because they didn't want to say he had autism, doesn't mean he wasn't being well taken care of.
I'm pretty sure it's real. The son of a close friend of ours had it when he was young. He is 10 and he is perfectly normal now.
It is real, Gas Man said he had it. The thing is it's not associated with seizures in any way, shape, or form. Most children are cured from it before they get older and the ones that due have serious problems usually die well before adulthood. Medical experts have come out and said he did not die from kawasaki disease, he had something else that triggered his seizures most likely epilipsy or something else in combination with a seizure disorder.
Some of the reports I heard said medical officials said Jett was getting the anti-seizure medicines he needed.
Just because they didn't want to say he had autism, doesn't mean he wasn't being well taken care of.
Yeah I have recently read that he was well taken care of for whatever he had, but they chose to not reveal the truth for the reprecussions it would have in their choice of belief.
Gas Man
01-07-2009, 02:46 PM
You can file this topic under the "I don't give a fuck" basket.
Truth!
Gas Man
01-07-2009, 02:47 PM
It is real, Gas Man said he had it. The thing is it's not associated with seizures in any way, shape, or form. Most children are cured from it before they get older and the ones that due have serious problems usually die well before adulthood. Medical experts have come out and said he did not die from kawasaki disease, he had something else that triggered his seizures most likely epilipsy or something else in combination with a seizure disorder.
Yea I was diseased and broken. Now just a sick ole bastard. :lol:
dReWpY
01-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Yea I was diseased and broken. Now just a sick ole bastard. :lol:
just because you owned a zx9 doesnt mean you were diseased, a lil dirty maybe, but not diseased
Gas Man
01-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Are you sure sir? You never rode with me back then!
cbrchick
01-07-2009, 03:22 PM
You can be on anti-seizure medications and still have seizures. I take care of people everyday with neuro problems and it happens often. The brain is a tricky organ, it'll do what it wants to do when it wants to do. We just suppress the symptoms with medications/operations.
What you have to ask yourself is why did this kid die after having a seizure? Who was supposed to be looking after him? Did he have a care worker? Did he hit his head and have a head bleed? Did he have a long last seizure and go into respiratory failure?
With a seizure disorder and no real treatment, this kid would not have made it to 16.
Medically he was being taken care of.
You're debating medical problems of which you have no real understanding.
cbrchick
01-07-2009, 03:29 PM
And by the way...
You and I can be perfectly healthy and have a seizure. There may be no good reason despite head CT's, EEG's, sleep studies, medications, extensive tests, etc why people have isolated seizures. In the end, we'd be put on medications and hope that it prevents a future seizure. Until you have 2 seizures, you wont be treated with meds. At least, not here.
Well medical professionals have come out and said kawasaki disease isn't a mental or seizure related disorder and he has had seizures for awhile now, can you comment on that since your opinion would be valid and first hand?
I am sure he wasn't neglected now, but I don't think we are being told the truth about what his actual disorder/disease was in an attempt to save face with people who only care about his money.
I am not talking about taking extraordinary measures like experimental operations or last ditch efforts, I am talking simple standard health care throught the kids life. This isn't a case of not being able to afford that either, he could of bought Jett his own top of the line hospital.
This is more like say someone had a mental disorder, well that mental disorder is easily treatable with a little pill (not saying Jett's was, just an example.) The parent refuses to accept that mental disorders exist and that people who have them are lesser human beings because they can't will their way to being healthy and normal, so they don't allow the kid to take the meds. Well the kid goes insane and starts harming people and finally kills a bunch of people including himself. Would you consider that neglect?
But we don't know if that is what happened in this scenario. But even if it were, I don't know that I would consider it neglect. Do you know of any medication that has no side-effects? Would the side-effects outweigh the benefits?
And this is all really about the medical choices allegedly made due to their religion, so, I have another family story to throw in the ring for consideration. I have two aunts on my mother's side. One is a Jehovah's Witness, the other Catholic. Both equally faithful, some would say fanatical about their beliefs.
My uncle who was a Jehovah's Witness got Leukemia. After some treatments (I was a kid and don't remember what the treatments were) the Dr's said he needed a blood transfusion. This is against their beliefs, they declined, he passed away within a very short time of being diagnosed.
My other uncle got another form of cancer (don't recall where it started) which metastisised and spread everywhere. When it got to his stomach he underwent massive chemo, radiation, transfusions, on top of his original treatments for wherever the cancer started. He spent a year and a half in the hospital, bed-ridden, in pain, ultimately throwing up the remains of his burned stomach. (Burned from radiation/chemo.) My aunt sat day and night by his bedside for the entire time, literally, to the point she almost died of blood clots she was getting in her legs. After all of that, my uncle died.
Was my Jehovah's Witness aunt neglectful for refussing the transfussion or was my Catholic aunt a heartless sadist for allowing her husband to be put through what he went through? Or were they both just doing their best to deal with horrible situations based on what their beliefs are?
Because Scientology is all about giving up thousands of dollars of your money, mandatory, in order to acheive enlightenment.......That's a little different than a real religion.
Not that I agree with the tenants of Scientology but all "real" (your word not mine) religions have ideas that may seem crazy to those who don't participate. I mean, to believe in someone's who lived thousands of years ago with no proof? To believe in a book that alleges it's words are those of said people? To believe in virgin birth? Or donating 10% of one's income, no matter how desperate one might be, so that one shows their faith? To believe water was turned to wine? Just sayin'. ;)
But we don't know if that is what happened in this scenario. But even if it were, I don't know that I would consider it neglect. Do you know of any medication that has no side-effects? Would the side-effects outweigh the benefits?
And this is all really about the medical choices allegedly made due to their religion, so, I have another family story to throw in the ring for consideration. I have two aunts on my mother's side. One is a Jehovah's Witness, the other Catholic. Both equally faithful, some would say fanatical about their beliefs.
My uncle who was a Jehovah's Witness got Leukemia. After some treatments (I was a kid and don't remember what the treatments were) the Dr's said he needed a blood transfusion. This is against their beliefs, they declined, he passed away within a very short time of being diagnosed.
My other uncle got another form of cancer (don't recall where it started) which metastisised and spread everywhere. When it got to his stomach he underwent massive chemo, radiation, transfusions, on top of his original treatments for wherever the cancer started. He spent a year and a half in the hospital, bed-ridden, in pain, ultimately throwing up the remains of his burned stomach. (Burned from radiation/chemo.) My aunt sat day and night by his bedside for the entire time, literally, to the point she almost died of blood clots she was getting in her legs. After all of that, my uncle died.
Was my Jehovah's Witness aunt neglectful for refussing the transfussion or was my Catholic aunt a heartless sadist for allowing her husband to be put through what he went through? Or were they both just doing their best to deal with horrible situations based on what their beliefs are?
Both of those stories I would not consider normal conditions, but extraordinary measures. Especially in the case of the cancer metastisised. Both are also the individuals making the choice, not a parent making the choice for the child.
Both of those stories I would not consider normal conditions, but extraordinary measures. Especially in the case of the cancer metastisised. Both are also the individuals making the choice, not a parent making the choice for the child.
A paents job is to make choices for a child. Especially one that is developmentally disabled, mentally, as appears to be the case of Jett Travolta.
And actually, my aunts had to make the choices once their husband's got to sick to make sound decisions. ;) What i've written isn't extraordinary where cancer is concerned. Chemo, radiation, transfusions, pretty standard. And pretty damn hellish for the first two at least. :shrug:
[QUOTE=cbrchick;141432]You can be on anti-seizure medications and still have seizures. QUOTE]
Yup
Particle Man
01-07-2009, 04:04 PM
[ QUOTE=cbrchick;141432]You can be on anti-seizure medications and still have seizures. QUOTE]
Yup
quite often, they effect the right hand, specifically the pinky when it's in the process of pressing the"/" and "[" keys.
redflip
azoomm
01-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I'm still very confused and almost offended that people are debating what he did, or didn't do for his son. I'm quite sure his pain is no less knowing that he maybe might have done more for him at any time.
It makes me want to throw up a little.
I wish them peace. For Jett and his friends and family... Godspeed.
Rsv1000R
01-07-2009, 04:25 PM
I to wonder how he wasn't found for so long, because I've heard he had 1 or 2 nanny's as well as baby monitors so if he got up at night he could be monitored.
As for Scientology, IMO it was set up for get out of paying taxes, they follow the IRS's rules for being a religion, so while it might be a scam, if they follow the rules, good for them. As for their cleansing, again IMO it's nothing more than in depth Biofeedback. Probably helpful to some, harmless to (most) everyone else*.
iirc there have been some people who have complained about this, but I don't know the specifics.
rogue
01-07-2009, 06:23 PM
I'm still very confused and almost offended that people are debating what he did, or didn't do for his son. I'm quite sure his pain is no less knowing that he maybe might have done more for him at any time.
It makes me want to throw up a little.
I wish them peace. For Jett and his friends and family... Godspeed.
:iagree:
As for Scientology, IMO it was set up for get out of paying taxes, they follow the IRS's rules for being a religion, so while it might be a scam, if they follow the rules, good for them. As for their cleansing, again IMO it's nothing more than in depth Biofeedback. Probably helpful to some, harmless to (most) everyone else*.
They are the only religion to attempt to takeover the government, actually get charge and prosecuted for attempting it, and then successfully blackmail the government into giving them tax free status with benefits other religions do not receive. :pat:
Rsv1000R
01-08-2009, 09:06 AM
They are the only religion to attempt to takeover the government, actually get charge and prosecuted for attempting it, and then successfully blackmail the government into giving them tax free status with benefits other religions do not receive. :pat:
Got any links to this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
As for the tax free stuff, google about jew scientology school tax free. I can't remember what his name was, but some jewish guy went to court over how scientology enjoys school tax benefits for it's "educational courses", but other religions can't file for tax credits on money paid for sending their kids to private religious schools.
more detailed info
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/timeline.html
Christianity these days is harmless compared to these fucks.
I to wonder how he wasn't found for so long, because I've heard he had 1 or 2 nanny's as well as baby monitors so if he got up at night he could be monitored.
I think there is a misconception about seizures here. The only reason we knew when my neice was having a seizure when we were with her was because her body would tense up, and her eyes would eventually roll back. She did not have convulsions. When she seized at night the only reason we knew was because she slept with a monitor on due to her tracheostomy. If her oxygen saturation levels started to drop, an alarm sounded.
A friend of my daughter's passed away a year ago from a seizure. (Epilepsy) He had the seizure sometime in the middle of the night NYE/New Years Day. The "kids" had had a party for NYE and there were 6 people sleeping on various couches and chairs around him. His girlfriend was asleep right next to him. NO ONE knew he'd had a seizure until awhile after they all woke up and he didn't wake up. He died 3 days later in the hospital due to massive organ failure from oxygen deprivation.
The same daughter is dating a boy who also has epilepsy. They were laying next to eachother one day and he had a seizure. He made no sounds but he turned away from her and his body stiffened. The only reason my daughter knew he was having a seizure was because she had seen my niece seize so often. He survived and his epilepsy has been under control for over a year.
Point again being, we don't know the details. He may not have been so severely handicapped that someone was in the same room as him every second. Even my niece was allowed to be in rooms during waking hours a few minutes at a time, alone. :shrug:
Anne Archer better watch her back.
http://omg.yahoo.com/news/travolta-thanks-fans-jett-memorial-held/17347?nc
101lifts2
01-09-2009, 01:01 AM
This thread got derailed by a couple of punks. Punks please quiet ur asses down.
thnkx
lifts
Homeslice
01-09-2009, 02:09 AM
more detailed info
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/timeline.html
Christianity these days is harmless compared to these fucks.
+1
Idiots.
How much did Cruise and others of his "level" have to pay to attain that level? Last I heard it was about $400,000, in various class fees as well as some sort of mandatory "investments". Religion my ass.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology/print
http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Protesters_Warn_Scientology_A_Money_Making_Sc heme_13877.html
Homeslice
01-09-2009, 02:22 AM
Not that I agree with the tenants of Scientology but all "real" (your word not mine) religions have ideas that may seem crazy to those who don't participate. I mean, to believe in someone's who lived thousands of years ago with no proof? To believe in a book that alleges it's words are those of said people? To believe in virgin birth? Or donating 10% of one's income, no matter how desperate one might be, so that one shows their faith? To believe water was turned to wine? Just sayin'. ;)
All very true........But IMO it crosses the line when they demand money before teaching someone about their religion. I don't see other religions doing that. The most they do is ask people to donate.
Papa_Complex
01-09-2009, 06:43 AM
All very true........But IMO it crosses the line when they demand money before teaching someone about their religion. I don't see other religions doing that. The most they do is ask people to donate.
Well there are plenty of bible colleges, seminaries, etc. that cost you money to enter.
OTOH I can't think of another religion whose founder made public statements that if you really want to get rich, you should found a religion.
Mr Lefty
01-09-2009, 07:06 AM
Well there are plenty of bible colleges, seminaries, etc. that cost you money to enter.
OTOH I can't think of another religion whose founder made public statements that if you really want to get rich, you should found a religion.
true... but you don't HAVE TO ATTEND.
Papa_Complex
01-09-2009, 07:14 AM
true... but you don't HAVE TO ATTEND.
Nor do you have to in Scientology, apart from what could be considered fairly equivalent to the average worshiper in a church, with tithing, etc.. I suppose that the biggest difference would be that in scientology, you could buy the equivalent of a bishopric, as people like Travolta and Cruise have.
Mr Lefty
01-09-2009, 07:20 AM
I thought to be considered in good standing with the "church" you had to pay or donate
Papa_Complex
01-09-2009, 07:21 AM
I thought to be considered in good standing with the "church" you had to pay or donate
As I said, tithing. Plenty of other churches and religions have that practise.
Mr Lefty
01-09-2009, 07:23 AM
ahh... ok... gotcha
Nor do you have to in Scientology, apart from what could be considered fairly equivalent to the average worshiper in a church, with tithing, etc.. I suppose that the biggest difference would be that in scientology, you could buy the equivalent of a bishopric, as people like Travolta and Cruise have.
Actually Travolta and Cruise aren't what I would consider the equivalent of a bishopric. They are just regular members of the church that progressed to high levels. It would be the equivalent of the euchrist servers in the Catholic church. The bishopric would be the "Sea Org", they sign 14 billion year contracts and pretty much are run like a military organization.
Papa_Complex
01-09-2009, 08:28 AM
Sea Org would be more like Cardinals, no?
Sea Org would be more like Cardinals, no?
They would be like the entire staff of a church, because it's got a military style command chain. The low level auditors would be like the priests, I think they are sea org too.
xx CURVE xx
01-09-2009, 09:35 AM
Who gives a fuck...why is this NEWS...lots of families loose their kid every day...i don't see that all over the networks....their kid died, i'm sure they don't need to be reminded about it by the fucking news every 10 minutes by the news...despicable.
Homeslice
01-09-2009, 01:00 PM
As I said, tithing. Plenty of other churches and religions have that practise.
In Cruise's case, and others of his level, it is more of an investment which I heard was not optional.
And I might be wrong, but I don't see the Church of Scientology using any of their money to help the needy.
Also, the personality "tests" cost money, and that's the first thing they try to get new recruits to do. They refuse to keep teaching you new things about scientology unless you keep climibng these levels ($$). I haven't heard of another religion that withholds key knowledge until more money is paid.
Sixxxxer
01-09-2009, 01:01 PM
Who gives a fuck...why is this NEWS...lots of families loose their kid every day...i don't see that all over the networks....their kid died, i'm sure they don't need to be reminded about it by the fucking news every 10 minutes by the news...despicable.
B/c its Travolta...Celebs get news all day everyday...They dont GET Personal Lives.
Its sad but true...and Its the world we live in.
In Cruise's case, and others of his level, it is more of an investment which I heard was not optional.
And I might be wrong, but I don't see the Church of Scientology using any of their money to help the needy.
Also, the personality "tests" cost money, and that's the first thing they try to get new recruits to do. They refuse to keep teaching you new things about scientology unless you keep climibng these levels ($$). I haven't heard of another religion that withholds key knowledge until more money is paid.
Another point to help you out, you can go get a bible free from pretty much any church you want if you ask for one. You can learn the entire belief system of the christians from that one book. That's the entire religion that one book. As a scientologist, you can't do that. You must pay for each individual lesson of the religion. To learn the most sacred parts of the religion as an ordinary person, you probably have gone broke already because you have spent somewhere around half a million dollars to get there. The OT (travolta, cruise are OT 8) levels are not just for the priests, but for everyone if you want to be a good scientologist.
xx CURVE xx
01-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Another point to help you out, you can go get a bible free from pretty much any church you want if you ask for one. You can learn the entire belief system of the christians from that one book. That's the entire religion that one book. As a scientologist, you can't do that. You must pay for each individual lesson of the religion. To learn the most sacred parts of the religion as an ordinary person, you probably have gone broke already because you have spent somewhere around half a million dollars to get there. The OT (travolta, cruise are OT 8) levels are not just for the priests, but for everyone if you want to be a good scientologist.
yup you're right...all religions are bullshit
Homeslice
01-09-2009, 01:12 PM
OT........."Operating Thetan"........that still cracks me up :lmao:
Papa_Complex
01-09-2009, 01:13 PM
In Cruise's case, and others of his level, it is more of an investment which I heard was not optional.
And I might be wrong, but I don't see the Church of Scientology using any of their money to help the needy.
Also, the personality "tests" cost money, and that's the first thing they try to get new recruits to do. They refuse to keep teaching you new things about scientology unless you keep climibng these levels ($$). I haven't heard of another religion that withholds key knowledge until more money is paid.
They may not withhold key knowledge, but they might withhold 'salvation.' Ever listened to Ernest Angely?
Then again, over the centuries plenty of religions have withheld basic knowledge from their congregations. Think of how the Roman Catholic Church kept everything in Latin for so long, so that only the clergy and the wealthy (who supported the church) could read the texts.
yup you're right...all religions are bullshit
no, everyone is full of bullshit. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
xx CURVE xx
01-09-2009, 01:18 PM
no, everyone is full of bullshit. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
least the "everyone" is real..not a fairy tale
least the "everyone" is real..not a fairy tale
I can think of a lot of things that people think is "real" that are actually fairy tales that have nothing to do with religion.
Avatard
01-09-2009, 01:43 PM
I can think of a lot of things that people think is "real" that are actually fairy tales that have nothing to do with religion.
Religion just happens to be the biggest, longest running, most insidious fairy tale ever, that's all.
:dthumb:
xx CURVE xx
01-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Religion just happens to be the biggest, longest running, most insidious fairy tale ever, that's all.
:dthumb:
i'm with tard :D
Religion just happens to be the biggest, longest running, most insidious fairy tale ever, that's all.
:dthumb:
There is possibly another, as it dates back to before recorded history as well.
I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that you can get a Bible and learn all about Christian beliefs. All you have to do is sit in a Born Again Church, then a Catholic church, then a Baptist church, Protestant, Lutheran, LDS, etc, to find out that its not WHAT the book says that matters, rather it is each groups interpretation that matters. And of course shit is always taken out of context for the benefit of making the point the speaker wishes to make. Quite annoying if you ask me. Which is why I don't believe in religion. Well, that and other stuff.
ETA: And even among the same denomination of various religions you have different beliefs. My husband's mom is a whacked out Born Again whose church does not celebrate Easter or Christmas. Go figure.
the chi
01-09-2009, 02:29 PM
There is possibly another, as it dates back to before recorded history as well.
What is it?
Rsv1000R
01-09-2009, 04:27 PM
I take it as the geeks vs the IRS, and to be honest I'm sort of happy the geeks have the lead.
I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that you can get a Bible and learn all about Christian beliefs. All you have to do is sit in a Born Again Church, then a Catholic church, then a Baptist church, Protestant, Lutheran, LDS, etc, to find out that its not WHAT the book says that matters, rather it is each groups interpretation that matters. And of course shit is always taken out of context for the benefit of making the point the speaker wishes to make. Quite annoying if you ask me. Which is why I don't believe in religion. Well, that and other stuff.
ETA: And even among the same denomination of various religions you have different beliefs. My husband's mom is a whacked out Born Again whose church does not celebrate Easter or Christmas. Go figure.
Well you know the basics of the religion, the history and the main points. They each have their own differences, but the basics of the religion is in that one book. The basics of scientology aren't laid out until you paid your money and you find out we are all reborn aliens that have other aliens on our bodies who were frozen, thrown into a volcano, blown up with a hydrogen bomb, and then forced to go to a movie theater and learn about all this other shit that makes us sick and have mental problems and keeps us from being clear.
What is it?
Figure it out. I am not going to say it for fear of reprisal.
the chi
01-09-2009, 05:48 PM
Figure it out. I am not going to say it for fear of reprisal.
Sadly I dont care enough to look for it. :idk:
Sadly I dont care enough to look for it. :idk:
You've already found it.
Homeslice
01-10-2009, 03:36 AM
Love?
Mr Lefty
01-10-2009, 03:56 AM
Love?
ding ding! the newly married Trip believes not in Love... :lol:
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