Does anyone really give a shit about Joe the Plumber? [Archive]

askmrjesus

01-18-2009, 08:06 AM

"To be honest with you, I don't think journalists should be anywhere allowed war [sic]. . . . I liked back in World War I and World War II, when you'd go to the theater and you'd see your troops on the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone's got an opinion and wants to down soldiers—our American soldiers, our Israeli soldiers. I think media should be abolished from reporting."

Joe the "Plumber"

Um...Ok. So you went to the middle east why? To report on how there should be no reporting from war zones?

I give it three months before he shows up in gay porn.

JC

marko138

01-18-2009, 09:40 AM

Nope.

azoomm

01-18-2009, 11:04 AM

I give it three months before he shows up in gay porn.

JC

You mean, he isn't already?

Particle Man

01-18-2009, 11:43 AM

Nope. Actually, TV or radio, everytime "Joe the Plumber" came up, the channel got changed in this house.

Papa_Complex

01-18-2009, 02:26 PM

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 04:08 PM

The guy who wasn't a plumber and now is doing what he said that people shouldn't be doing?

There are a small percentage of people who will be exposed to national attention, who will then do just about anything in order to stay in the limelight.

Pretty sure he was a plumber... The deal was he wasn't licensed or some shit... which doesn't matter cause his boss was, blah, blah, blah... Not that any of that shit mattered... the media drug that dude through the mud like he was running for office. Fuck the media.

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 04:35 PM

Pretty sure he was a plumber... The deal was he wasn't licensed or some shit... which doesn't matter cause his boss was, blah, blah, blah... Not that any of that shit mattered... the media drug that dude through the mud like he was running for office. Fuck the media.

His own candidate started it. How many times did McCain say "Joe the Plumber" in that one fucking debate? Of course the media was going to pick up on it. "Joe" sure doesn't seem to mind, though.

The guy's a fucking tool, to answer the original question.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 04:41 PM

His own candidate started it. How many times did McCain say "Joe the Plumber" in that one fucking debate? Of course the media was going to pick up on it. "Joe" sure doesn't seem to mind, though.

The guy's a fucking tool, to answer the original question.

If by starting it, you mean McCain mentioned him... yes, he did. I still cannot substantiate any reason for that guy to have been run through the paces by the media like he did... Oh yea, because his question and Obama's answer represented something that scared the media... afterall, anything that questioned Obama's omnipotence certainly should have been scrutinized, ignored, or otherwise discredited so their boy could get in with as little resistance as possible. The man shouldn't have been the news... the question and Obama's answer is what mattered.

EpyonXero

01-18-2009, 04:43 PM

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 04:44 PM

Ha, blame the media.

Why not?

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 04:54 PM

The man shouldn't have been the news... the question and Obama's answer is what mattered.Obama's answer was pretty straightforward, as I recall. McCain picked up on the name "Joe the Plumber" and threw it around like it meant something. No one would have even known the guy existed if McCain hadn't harped on it so much, and not just "Joe's" question. Every point McCain made in that debate was "your policies will hurt Joe. I'm going to help Joe. You don't remember Joe. Joe's my best friend," etc. etc. ad nauseum. He talked about "Joe" so much that Obama didn't have any choice but to talk about him too. After that, it was over. Of course the media was going to dig into the guy's life. All they had was one question, which had already been fielded and answered. And once they found out he was lying about who he said he was, which wasn't hard to find out, of course they were going to dig deeper.

Did he deserve it? I don't think so, he was a tool but nothing more sinister. But McCain put the spotlight on him, the media just did what the media does when someone's put in the spotlight.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 04:59 PM

Obama's answer was pretty straightforward, as I recall. McCain picked up on the name "Joe the Plumber" and threw it around like it meant something. No one would have even know the guy existed if McCain hadn't harped on it so much, and not just "Joe's" question. Every point McCain made in that debate was "your policies will hurt Joe. I'm going to help Joe. You don't remember Joe. Joe's my best friend," etc. etc. ad nauseum. He talked about "Joe" so much that Obama didn't have any choice but to talk about him too. After that, it was over. Of course the media was going to dig into the guy's life. All they had was one question, which had already been fielded and answered. And once they found out he was lying about who he said he was, which wasn't hard to find out, of course they were going to dig deeper.

Did he deserve it? I don't think so, he was a tool but nothing more sinister. But McCain put the spotlight on him, the media just did what the media does when someone's put in the spotlight.

You must be a big fan of Dead or Alive, cause you spun that shit like a fucking record...

He asked the question and Obama's answer indicated his policy could have had negative impacts on his business... or the business he intended to purchase.

The man was simply used as a metaphor for the American small business owner. There was NO reason what-so-ever that anything about his personal life should have been made public or was part of the story... it had NOTHING to do with anything, but acted as a great distraction from the real issue in question... Obama's policies.

I theorize that if Joe the Plumber had been used by Obama against McCain, he would never have been vetted by the media, but rather the media would have focused on the obvious metaphor he represented.

Papa_Complex

01-18-2009, 05:13 PM

Pretty sure he was a plumber... The deal was he wasn't licensed or some shit... which doesn't matter cause his boss was, blah, blah, blah... Not that any of that shit mattered... the media drug that dude through the mud like he was running for office. Fuck the media.

He put himself in the media and puffed his qualifications in order to support his questions. He wasn't a licensed plumber, but claimed to want to buy his boss's business. He asked questions about business income, when personal income was the only issue.

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 05:20 PM

You must be a big fan of Dead or Alive, cause you spun that shit like a fucking record...*shrug* I call it like I see it. He wouldn't be a household name if McCain had not made him so. Were you watching that debate? Maybe we saw different things, but I remember McCain throwing the name "Joe the Plumber" around like a wind sock. And only McCain's first mention of him had anything to do with "Joe's" question to Obama. One mention out of at least 7.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 05:24 PM

He put himself in the media and puffed his qualifications in order to support his questions. He wasn't a licensed plumber, but claimed to want to buy his boss's business. He asked questions about business income, when personal income was the only issue.

You seem to be an expert on Ohio law... Turns out, you don't need to be a licensed plummer to do his job, since his boss was licensed... all good. Further, he could most certainly buy the business without being licensed, though he would have to get licensed to do the work... Also, I never saw anywhere that he puffed up his qualifications... there were just a lot of assumptions and 'gotcha' reporting.

So all the stuff about him being behind on child support, him failing the test to get his license, back taxes, voting Republican, etc, etc, etc... had WHAT to do with the question he asked?

Had the media questioned the business vs personal income issue, I would have been right there with him. Truth is, they ripped through this guy's personal life to mask the real issue...

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 05:26 PM

*shrug* I call it like I see it. He wouldn't be a household name if McCain had not made him so. Were you watching that debate? Maybe we saw different things, but I remember McCain throwing the name "Joe the Plumber" around like a wind sock. And only the McCain's first mention of him had anything to do with "Joe's" question to Obama. One mention out of at least 7.

I agree with this post... My problem is not with what made him a household name, but rather why the media felt the need to rake this guy over the coals when EVERYTHING they 'uncovered' had NOTHING to do with the candidates or the situation that brought him into the limelight.

Homeslice

01-18-2009, 05:42 PM

Obama answered the question honestly, as I recall. He said yes, under my plan people over a certain income WOULD get taxed higher, tough luck. At least he was honest.

As for why the media jumped all over Joe, maybe it was because he put up a front trying to act like he was "all that" when in reality he wasn't anywhere close to buying the business. Probably trying to impress the other bystanders in the crowd. :rolleyes: Also, his question was wrong, Obama wouldn't increase taxes once a business hits $250K of sales, the OWNER would get higher taxes IF he pays HIMSELF that much. Furthermore, only about 5% of small businesses owners make that much anyway.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 05:45 PM

Obama answered the question honestly, as I recall. He said yes, under my plan people over a certain income WOULD get taxed higher, tough luck. At least he was honest.

As for why the media jumped all over Joe, maybe it was because he put up a front trying to act like he was "all that" when in reality he wasn't anywhere close to buying the business. :rolleyes: Also, his question was wrong, Obama wouldn't increase taxes once a business hits $250K of sales, the OWNER would get higher taxes IF he pays HIMSELF that much. .Furthermore, only about 5% of small businesses owners make that much anyway.

Doesn't matter... WTF does that have to do with the Q&A that he had with Obama? Nothing. And how could his question be wrong? The question was simple... If there was any question as to what he was asking, wouldn't it have made sense for the omnipotent Obama to correct it before answering?

Papa_Complex

01-18-2009, 05:57 PM

You seem to be an expert on Ohio law... Turns out, you don't need to be a licensed plummer to do his job, since his boss was licensed... all good. Further, he could most certainly buy the business without being licensed, though he would have to get licensed to do the work... Also, I never saw anywhere that he puffed up his qualifications... there were just a lot of assumptions and 'gotcha' reporting.

So all the stuff about him being behind on child support, him failing the test to get his license, back taxes, voting Republican, etc, etc, etc... had WHAT to do with the question he asked?

Had the media questioned the business vs personal income issue, I would have been right there with him. Truth is, they ripped through this guy's personal life to mask the real issue...

Oh, I'm fully aware that he could work as a plumber, as long as he was working under the supervision of a licensed plumber. Could he purchase the business and operated it himself? No.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 05:59 PM

Oh, I'm fully aware that he could work as a plumber, as long as he was working under the supervision of a licensed plumber. Could he purchase the business and operated it himself? No.

So everything's moot because he didn't have the license necessary to operate the business he planned on buying in the future? Shit, I should quit my job now because I am not yet qualified to get the promotion I hope to attain the future.

Papa_Complex

01-18-2009, 06:20 PM

So everything's moot because he didn't have the license necessary to operate the business he planned on buying in the future? Shit, I should quit my job now because I am not yet qualified to get the promotion I hope to attain the future.

Everything is moot because he wasn't what he portrayed himself to be, couldn't have operated the business given his current circumstance, and didn't have the wherewithal to purchase or finance the business that he stated he was going to purchase. In other words, he lied his ass off with the media watching and got caught.

Mr Lefty

01-18-2009, 06:26 PM

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 06:27 PM

Everything is moot because he wasn't what he portrayed himself to be, couldn't have operated the business given his current circumstance, and didn't have the wherewithal to purchase or finance the business that he stated he was going to purchase. In other words, he lied his ass off with the media watching and got caught.

And he was running for what public office? His credibility meant exactly what to the question being asked? His motives had what to do with the questions raised about Obama's response?

The bottom line is, the media made it about the man... when the truth is... the man did not matter... it was the metaphor he represented. Focusing on him rather than what he represented and the questions in Obama's policy raised by that interview is nothing but smoke and mirrors. So focus on what doesn't matter and ignore what does... Keep listening to the media because they always tell us what we need to know and are always focused on what matters.

Smittie61984

01-18-2009, 07:00 PM

Joe the Plumber became big because after he asked Obama a question, Obama fucked up and showed his true colors since he didn't have his handlers handy. Saying "Redistribute the wealth" doesn't sit well with most Americans. Even poor Americans don't like that Idea (Not counting the welfare babies). The McCain camp picked up on hte fuck up and used "Joe the Plumber" because he was a basic working man that represented most of this country. However what really blew this guy up was when Obama's chronies went on a witch hunt against him and dug everything up they could about him. Which pissed off even more Americans, but it was too late. If they had something like that 2 months earlier then I think the McCain camp could have dominated Obama.

As for him in Israel. I really dont' give a fuck about him. He's not a historian who can give insite into the conflict so he has no business there. But if someone wants to pay to send him there then more power to them.

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 07:04 PM

Mr Lefty

01-18-2009, 07:12 PM

So, I take it since some of you seem to think there was some concerted effort to distract the public, that you didn't like Obama's answer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

Which part of his answer was so damning that the media decided it must band together to destroy poor Joe?

There was no intent to help or hurt Obama or McCain. McCain put this loser in the spotlight, the media looked closer because he was in the spotlight, and everyone got to see what a loser he was. And apparently that's only benefitted him, because he sure as hell has not shied away from the spotlight.

McCaine USED this guy as a figurehead because of his question. he was, as OSP put it, a METAPHOR for the hundred's of thousands of Americans who are in a similar situation.

regardless of his personal situations, his taxes, his lack of credentials, ect... his question was still valid for the other couple hundred thousand Americans who still fit that demographic.

The media jumped on this guy, and pulled attention from the real issue. the question and answer. instead they tore this guys life apart for what?

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 07:24 PM

The media jumped on this guy, and pulled attention from the real issue. the question and answer. instead they tore this guys life apart for what?Because they are the media. It's what they do. Any story that hits the national news. Toddlers dissappearing, businessmen faking their deaths by airplane, BART cops shooting people, whatever. If you hit the national news your life will be dissected on camera.

McCain knew that, or should have known, for the decades he's spent in the public view. If he thought he could just use an actual person as the focal point of his debate without drawing any attention to that actual person, he was either stupid or purposefully refusing to see.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 07:30 PM

So, I take it since some of you seem to think there was some concerted effort to distract the public, that you didn't like Obama's answer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

Which part of his answer was so damning that the media decided it must band together to destroy poor Joe?

There was no intent to help or hurt Obama or McCain. McCain put this loser in the spotlight, the media looked closer because he was in the spotlight, and everyone got to see what a loser he was. And apparently that's only benefitted him, because he sure as hell has not shied away from the spotlight.

The part that McCain and the Reps were harping about... the 'spread it around' part... The media's focus was on Joe, effectively distracting everyone from the socialistic tendencies the GOP and McCain were trying to focus on. Agree with that side or not, there's nothing in that interaction or anything that happened beyond it, that made it necessary to discredit the man... Again... the man did not matter...

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 07:36 PM

Because they are the media. It's what they do. Any story that hits the national news. Toddlers dissappearing, businessmen faking their deaths by airplane, BART cops shooting people, whatever. If you hit the national news your life will be dissected on camera.

McCain knew that, or should have known, for the decades he's spent in the public view. If he thought he could just use an actual person as the focal point of his debate without drawing any attention to that actual person, he was either stupid or purposefully refusing to see.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

Toddlers disappearing, businessmen faking their deaths by airplane, BART cops shooting people, asking a question, whatever.

I'm betting you did terribly on those test questions that said, "pick the one that doesn't fit."

Mr Lefty

01-18-2009, 07:41 PM

Because they are the media. It's what they do. Any story that hits the national news. Toddlers dissappearing, businessmen faking their deaths by airplane, BART cops shooting people, whatever. If you hit the national news your life will be dissected on camera.

McCain knew that, or should have known, for the decades he's spent in the public view. If he thought he could just use an actual person as the focal point of his debate without drawing any attention to that actual person, he was either stupid or purposefully refusing to see.

or he could have been just try'n to expose what Obama's plans would do to people like Joe.

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 07:49 PM

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

Toddlers disappearing, businessmen faking their deaths by airplane, BART cops shooting people, asking a question, whatever.

I'm betting you did terribly on those test questions that said, "pick the one that doesn't fit."
Wurzelbacher wasn't a household name because of the question he asked Obama, or even the 5 minute conversation Obama had with him. He was a household name because McCain mentioned him every other breath during their last debate. If McCain had not done that, or even mentioned him only once or twice, the media wouldn't have keyed on him like they did.

Or do you honestly think the fact that Obama said the words "spread the wealth around" would have unravelled his whole campaign? I tend to think at least half the people that voted for him did so because they think he will "spread the wealth around" to them more.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 08:07 PM

Wurzelbacher wasn't a household name because of the question he asked Obama, or even the 5 minute conversation Obama had with him. He was a household name because McCain mentioned him every other breath during their last debate. If McCain had not done that, or even mentioned him only once or twice, the media wouldn't have keyed on him like they did.

Or do you honestly think the fact that Obama said the words "spread the wealth around" would have unravelled his whole campaign? I tend to think at least half the people that voted for him did so because they think he will "spread the wealth around" to them more.

Again, you're missing the point. The media did a good job of ignoring or spinning anything that could have hurt the Obama campaign. The ONLY reason the media did what they did to Mr. Plumber is because it was another in a long line of stories that threatened to damage the Obama campaign. Was this the keystone issue that would have brought down the campaign? Probably not, but it could have damaged him... maybe made other people think of looking deeper into Obama.

VatorMan

01-18-2009, 08:09 PM

Wurzelbacher wasn't a household name because of the question he asked Obama, or even the 5 minute conversation Obama had with him. He was a household name because McCain mentioned him every other breath during their last debate. If McCain had not done that, or even mentioned him only once or twice, the media wouldn't have keyed on him like they did.

Or do you honestly think the fact that Obama said the words "spread the wealth around" would have unravelled his whole campaign? I tend to think at least half the people that voted for him did so because they think he will "spread the wealth around" to them more.

Only LAZY mofos want the wealth spread to them. HARD WORKING mofos would like to keep a tiny bit for themselves. One believes in Socialism and one believes in Capitalism. Which are you? I know the answer.

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 08:10 PM

MCCAIN: No. I would like to mention that a couple days ago Senator Obama was out in Ohio and he had an encounter with a guy who's a plumber, his name is Joe Wurzelbacher.

Joe wants to buy the business that he has been in for all of these years, worked 10, 12 hours a day. And he wanted to buy the business but he looked at your tax plan and he saw that he was going to pay much higher taxes.

You were going to put him in a higher tax bracket which was going to increase his taxes, which was going to cause him not to be able to employ people, which Joe was trying to realize the American dream.

Now Senator Obama talks about the very, very rich. Joe, I want to tell you, I'll not only help you buy that business that you worked your whole life for and be able -- and I'll keep your taxes low and I'll provide available and affordable health care for you and your employees.

And I will not have -- I will not stand for a tax increase on small business income. Fifty percent of small business income taxes are paid by small businesses. That's 16 million jobs in America. And what you want to do to Joe the plumber and millions more like him is have their taxes increased and not be able to realize the American dream of owning their own business.

McCain was trying to use this guy's own example, saying that Obama's tax plan would somehow ruin him and prevent him from hiring more people. I think the facts that

a) Wurzelbacher was in no position to buy the company and would not be in any position to do so anytime soon,
b) Wurzelbacher would not be in any position to hire anyone, with or without Obama's tax plan, and
c) There's no real evidence that, had Wurzelbacher actually been in any position to do any of those things, Obama's tax plan would keep him from doing them,

are all pertinent topics of discussion. McCain thought he had found the silver bullet, but didn't bother to fact check anything. The fact that Wurzelbacher wasn't going to be hurt by Obama's tax plan (in fact, he would have been one of the ones to receive a tax cut), and in fact there was no solid evidence that anyone would have been so negatively affected the way McCain described, is worth reporting in my opinion.

McCain was trying to hold "Joe the Plumber" up as proof of the horrors of an Obama administration. When the proof was found to be false, he tried to cry "no, no, it's the question that's important," in other words the possibility that there might be horrors in an Obama administration is what's really important. So the truth of "Joe the Plumber's" story was all important to McCain, until it was found to be untrue.

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 08:11 PM

Which are you? I know the answer.

You don't know shit about me, not the least of which being how I voted or was inclined to vote for the majority of the last election season.

VatorMan

01-18-2009, 08:16 PM

You don't know shit about me, not the least of which being how I voted or was inclined to vote for the majority of the last election season.

ORLY? You bust McCain's balls and you say I don't know how you voted? :zowned:

BTW-I hope you enjoy being part of the Obamanation.:pat:

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 08:17 PM

ORLY? You bust McCain's balls and you say I don't know how you voted? :zowned:

BTW-I hope you enjoy being part of the Obamanation.:pat:

I bust on Obama, but my vote went to someone other than McCain.

VatorMan

01-18-2009, 08:19 PM

I bust on Obama, but my vote went to someone other than McCain.

I didn't know Ron Jeremy was running.

Mr Lefty

01-18-2009, 08:19 PM

ORLY? You bust McCain's balls and you say I don't know how you voted? :zowned:

BTW-I hope you enjoy being part of the Obamanation.:pat:

gotta love ASSumptions

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 08:21 PM

I didn't know Ron Jeremy was running.

I was never a big fan... more of a Peter North fan...

fatbuckRTO

01-18-2009, 08:24 PM

ORLY? You bust McCain's balls and you say I don't know how you voted? :zowned:

BTW-I hope you enjoy being part of the Obamanation.:pat:

I bust both their balls when it's warranted. You may be so blindly obedient to whichever party or candidate you choose that you can't see their faults, but I try to be honest with myself.

Even though you won't believe me, because you seem to have Brett's or MV's prescience for my own political inclinations, I was one of the 15,000 nationwide who stayed with Ron Paul to the bitter end. I didn't vote in the generals because he wasn't on a ballot in Louisiana and the write-in would have gone nowhere, though I supported him as best I could through the primaries. But if you are so fond of capitalism, and by inference I would guess conservatism, you might take a closer look at Congressman Paul. Maybe you can learn, by his example, what political values you're actually espousing.

It's not the pale substitute that was a McCain/Palin ticket.

OneSickPsycho

01-18-2009, 08:25 PM

I bust both their balls when it's warranted. You may be so blindly obedient to whichever party or candidate you choose that you can't see their faults, but I try to be honest with myself.

Even though you won't believe me, because you seem to have Brett's or MV's prescience for my own political inclinations, I was one of the 15,000 nationwide who stayed with Ron Paul to the bitter end. I didn't vote in the generals because he wasn't on a ballot in Louisiana and the write-in would have gone nowhere, though I supported him as best I could through the primaries. But if you are so fond of capitalism, and by inference I would guess conservatism, you might take a closer look at Congressman Paul. Maybe you can learn, by his example, what political values you're actually espousing.

It's not the pale substitute that was a McCain/Palin ticket.

Ron Paul FTW.

askmrjesus

01-18-2009, 08:35 PM

Has anyone stopped to consider that Joe "the plumber", doesn't seem to do too much fucking plumbing?

How sad is that? A wannabe plumber.

Yes, let's blame "the media". Poor Joe, he just wanted to be a plumber, but he somehow got caught up in a media shitstorm, and was then forced to become a "journalist" in the middle east.

The irony of this bag of cat barf, is that Joe is likely to make enough money as a media whore, to qualify for the taxes he doesn't want to pay. :lol:

JC

pauldun170

01-18-2009, 09:09 PM

I like how soon after people started mentioning McCain's handlers and crap, all the talks of "when Obama doesn't have his handlers he...blah blah blah"
Then you actually have a video where the guy lays out everything in plain english...whatever.

"Joe the Plumber" is a metaphor for every American that has right wing opinions and likes to pretend that they have potential to occupy the higher income brackets or run a business capable of pulling in big bucks in a sustained manner (despite having no knowledge or experience of running a real business, accounting, or tax codes )

Smittie61984

01-18-2009, 09:22 PM

"Joe the Plumber" is a metaphor for every American that has right wing opinions and likes to pretend that they have potential to occupy the higher income brackets or run a business capable of pulling in big bucks in a sustained manner (despite having no knowledge or experience of running a real business, accounting, or tax codes )

Have you ever met a real business owner? Or a real Millionare? Most people who make $250,000+ run their own business like "Joe the Plumber" wants to do. Don't believe me? Go find any local redneck circle track. It'll be called __________ Speedway. There you'll find expensive race cars and high dollar trailers piloted by a bunch of backwoods rednecks who's only college experience is sneaking a bottle of Jack Daniels into a football game. But most of them run their own business and started it from the ground up. It's why for many years (Not sure if true of the past couple of years) the vehicle driven by most millionares was the Ford F-150. Which is a fucking work truck.

And how do they figure out "Accounting, Tax Codes, etc"??? Easy. While they are out digging up your septic tank or mowing your lawn, they are taking that money you hand them and paying some joker at H&R block who makes $40k a year to do it for them.

Me. I'll be in that tax bracket one day for sure (Providing Obama doesn't lower it to $15k a year). You guys can settle on never progressing but not me.

pauldun170

01-18-2009, 09:51 PM

Have you ever met a real business owner? Or a real Millionare? Most people who make $250,000+ run their own business like "Joe the Plumber" wants to do. Don't believe me? Go find any local redneck circle track. It'll be called __________ Speedway. There you'll find expensive race cars and high dollar trailers piloted by a bunch of backwoods rednecks who's only college experience is sneaking a bottle of Jack Daniels into a football game. But most of them run their own business and started it from the ground up. It's why for many years (Not sure if true of the past couple of years) the vehicle driven by most millionares was the Ford F-150. Which is a fucking work truck.

And how do they figure out "Accounting, Tax Codes, etc"??? Easy. While they are out digging up your septic tank or mowing your lawn, they are taking that money you hand them and paying some joker at H&R block who makes $40k a year to do it for them.

Me. I'll be in that tax bracket one day for sure (Providing Obama doesn't lower it to $15k a year). You guys can settle on never progressing but not me.

Have I met a real business owner?
:lol:

Smittie61984

01-18-2009, 10:14 PM

Have I met a real business owner?
:lol:

I don't know. I'm asking you. You're vision of a "Business Owner" seems to be someone who got his MBA from Harvard and is the only person capable of running a functioning business. And that anyone else who doesn't hold a major business degree is just wasting time trying to make wealth because they can't figure out the tax code.

Homeslice

01-19-2009, 12:02 AM

If they had something like that 2 months earlier then I think the McCain camp could have dominated Obama.

Not a chance.........McCain used the Joe the Plumber shtick one too many times in the last debate. After the first 30 minutes it was getting old already.

Also he should never have pushed for the town hall style debate. That last one made him look really old and ready to keel over, walking around like he did. Superficial but it's true. But that's another subject.

Homeslice

01-19-2009, 12:05 AM

instead they tore this guys life apart for what?

Because he ALLOWED them to.

I don't see him turning any interview offers down :rolleyes:

Homeslice

01-19-2009, 12:09 AM

ORLY? You bust McCain's balls and you say I don't know how you voted? :zowned:

BTW-I hope you enjoy being part of the Obamanation.:pat:

You ever hear of write-in votes, Ace?

You don't have to constrain yourself to the 2 main parties.

The world is only black and white if you want it to be.

Mr Lefty

01-19-2009, 12:09 AM

Because he ALLOWED them to.

I don't see him turning any interview offers down :rolleyes:

he was investigated and sensationalized by the media long before he did another interview.

but yes... dude isn't helping it... I could care less about him...

Smittie61984

01-19-2009, 01:17 AM

Not a chance.........McCain used the Joe the Plumber shtick one too many times in the last debate. After the first 30 minutes it was getting old already.

Also he should never have pushed for the town hall style debate. That last one made him look really old and ready to keel over, walking around like he did. Superficial but it's true. But that's another subject.

I agree the Joe the Plumber shit got overpushed. But you have to remember that "Swing" voters are the dumbest group of animals on the planet. So phrases like "Joe the Plumber/six pack" or "Change" repeatedly beat into their head is what works. An intelligent person who sides on the Democrat side or an intelligent person who sides on the Republican side isn't going to be swayed by useless babble. Swing voters are though.

pauldun170

01-19-2009, 06:14 AM

And how do they figure out "Accounting, Tax Codes, etc"??? Easy. While they are out digging up your septic tank or mowing your lawn, they are taking that money you hand them and paying some joker at H&R block who makes $40k a year to do it for them.

Me. I'll be in that tax bracket one day for sure (Providing Obama doesn't lower it to $15k a year). You guys can settle on never progressing but not me.
I don't know. I'm asking you. You're vision of a "Business Owner" seems to be someone who got his MBA from Harvard and is the only person capable of running a functioning business. And that anyone else who doesn't hold a major business degree is just wasting time trying to make wealth because they can't figure out the tax code.

You fail when it comes to reading comprehension kiddo....

Papa_Complex

01-19-2009, 06:37 AM

I agree the Joe the Plumber shit got overpushed. But you have to remember that "Swing" voters are the dumbest group of animals on the planet. So phrases like "Joe the Plumber/six pack" or "Change" repeatedly beat into their head is what works. An intelligent person who sides on the Democrat side or an intelligent person who sides on the Republican side isn't going to be swayed by useless babble. Swing voters are though.

Dumber than hide-bound voters who vote for 'their' party, year in and year out, no matter what the members of that party do or what new issues may have arisen? Someone who does that sounds about as smart as a rock, to me.

Papa_Complex

01-19-2009, 06:40 AM

And he was running for what public office? His credibility meant exactly what to the question being asked? His motives had what to do with the questions raised about Obama's response?

The bottom line is, the media made it about the man... when the truth is... the man did not matter... it was the metaphor he represented. Focusing on him rather than what he represented and the questions in Obama's policy raised by that interview is nothing but smoke and mirrors. So focus on what doesn't matter and ignore what does... Keep listening to the media because they always tell us what we need to know and are always focused on what matters.

No, he wasn't running for public office, but apparently he thought that he could slip a zinger in on the guy who was, in front of the media. That made him fair game.

OneSickPsycho

01-19-2009, 09:59 AM

No, he wasn't running for public office, but apparently he thought that he could slip a zinger in on the guy who was, in front of the media. That made him fair game.

Why? Was all the coverage of Joe NOT just simply a distraction? I mean, where's the story with this guy?

Rider

01-19-2009, 10:08 AM

I don't give a fuck about Joe.

Papa_Complex

01-19-2009, 10:16 AM

Why? Was all the coverage of Joe NOT just simply a distraction? I mean, where's the story with this guy?

Of course it was a distraction. Damned near the whole election was a distraction, when you go back over what was considered to be important in the media. In this case he set himself up to be a distraction, by being less than truthful in an attempt to take a public shot. The media jumped on it and he had no one but himself (and maybe McCain) to blame.

Smittie61984

01-19-2009, 06:52 PM

Dumber than hide-bound voters who vote for 'their' party, year in and year out, no matter what the members of that party do or what new issues may have arisen? Someone who does that sounds about as smart as a rock, to me.

I'm stating that the Parties are (or were atleast) so far apart politically that if decided to vote for a valid party you either sided with one or the other. Someone who embraces socialism but wants free pot isn't going to decide between the Republicans and Democrats. They are going to go for the Democrats. Someone who wants no abortions and a more conservative government is going to side with the Democrats.

But someone who's not sure which party to choose. Either they are just saying they are independent voters so that their shithole of a state gets some attention every 4 years. Or you really have no clue that you want because both sides have completely opposite ideas of how to run things.

It'd be like saying "I want to cruise the nation in comfort but I can't decide between a Goldwing and a Desmosedici"

Papa_Complex

01-19-2009, 06:58 PM

I'm stating that the Parties are (or were atleast) so far apart politically that if decided to vote for a valid party you either sided with one or the other. Someone who embraces socialism but wants free pot isn't going to decide between the Republicans and Democrats. They are going to go for the Democrats. Someone who wants no abortions and a more conservative government is going to side with the Democrats.

But someone who's not sure which party to choose. Either they are just saying they are independent voters so that their shithole of a state gets some attention every 4 years. Or you really have no clue that you want because both sides have completely opposite ideas of how to run things.

It'd be like saying "I want to cruise the nation in comfort but I can't decide between a Goldwing and a Desmosedici"

That may have been true at some nebulous point in the distant past, but hasn't been for some time. Other social and cultural issues have crept into politics, to the point that a significant percentage of voters have no real party representation. From that poitn it becomes a matter of choosing the side that is least bad for your particular views, rather than the one that supports your beliefs.

I have said on many occasions and will say again that the United States no longer has a conservative party. All that you have is two parties who want to spend your money on their different personal agendas.

z06boy

01-20-2009, 01:25 PM

Nope

Smittie61984

01-20-2009, 09:03 PM

I have said on many occasions and will say again that the United States no longer has a conservative party. All that you have is two parties who want to spend your money on their different personal agendas.

True. Reminds me of a quote by P.J. O'Rourke who is the fucking man...
The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.