Ufc 94

[OneSickPsycho]

UFC Prime Time is on Spike right now and Penn & St. Pierre are just talkin' shit.

That could/should be an amazing fight. Who you got?

[Corey]

Wow, what a fucking surprise, I'm scheduled to work. I've missed every fucking UFC event since May from this damn bullshit of getting scheduled every fucking Saturday.

/rant

I got St. Pierre. Penn's a good fighter, but I think GSP is better. Penn's to wrapped up in trying to be the man holding two belts.

The fight of the night is going to be Diaz vs. Guida. Guida may not win but he has yet to put on a stinker of a fight. The guy just kicks ass. And now that I've said that, watch it be the snooze fest of the evening. I'm still betting on Diaz vs. Guida to be fight of the night unless GPS/Penn is monumental.

[OneSickPsycho]

Wow, what a fucking surprise, I'm scheduled to work. I've missed every fucking UFC event since May from this damn bullshit of getting scheduled every fucking Saturday.

/rant

I got St. Pierre. Penn's a good fighter, but I think GSP is better. Penn's to wrapped up in trying to be the man holding two belts.

The fight of the night is going to be Diaz vs. Guida. Guida may not win but he has yet to put on a stinker of a fight. The guy just kicks ass. And now that I've said that, watch it be the snooze fest of the evening. I'm still betting on Diaz vs. Guida to be fight of the night unless GPS/Penn is monumental.

I'm pretty excited about the Penn/St. Pierre fight... I'm just wondering what Penn we'll see... the under-conditioned or the 'roided out version. Either way I see it being really good.

I LOVE that Guida guy... I'm not so sure about that fight, but I in the least I think it should be interesting.

[Corey]

Guida is the most entertaining figher in MMA right now and my favorite guy to watch. He doesn't always win, but he doesn't puss out halfway through a fight or play it safe if he can't get the quick victory. He's always in there dishing out and taking beatings until the end of the fight. He absolutely needed to be on this fight card to balance out the absolute dull piece of shit suckfest fight that Lyoto Machida vs Thiago Silva is going to be.

[OneSickPsycho]

Guida is the most entertaining figher in MMA right now and my favorite guy to watch. He doesn't always win, but he doesn't puss out halfway through a fight or play it safe if he can't get the quick victory. He's always in there dishing out and taking beatings until the end of the fight. He absolutely needed to be on this fight card to balance out the absolute dull piece of shit suckfest fight that Lyoto Machida vs Thiago Silva is going to be.

They're drumming up that Machida/Silva fight too... Two undefeateds that I've never heard of... :hmm:

[jalaan1]

Penn always manages to surprise me (him and his F'd up ears,lol)

but i like the Saint for this one.

[Corey]

God help the UFC if Machida wins. He's the most boring, god awful fighter in the UFC. His fights consist of him winning on points and spending the majority of the fight running away. If he wins, he's going to want a title shot, and god knows his record says it's possible. Silva's fights are hit or miss. I think they're hoping he dives in and pounds Machida into the ground, but I think it'll be 3 rounds of Machida style tap and run, with a victory on points. Prepare for 3 rounds of the audience booing the entire time as well.

[OneSickPsycho]

Speaking of Silva's... They have an Anderson Silva edition of UFC Fight Night or whatever on tonight... Just showed Silva/Leban and are showing Silva/Franklin right now... Silva/Lutter and Silva/Someone else (his light heavyweight fight) is on too...

[Corey]

Silva/James Irvin?

[OneSickPsycho]

Silva/James Irvin?

Yeah, that fuckin' guy... also Silva/Henderson... I haven't seen that fight or the Lutter fight... The Franklin fight disappoints every time I see it. I like that guy.

[jalaan1]

that Brazilian spider is a great fighter.

[OneSickPsycho]

that Brazilian spider is a great fighter.

He's a god in the UFC, but I've seen him get fucking owned outside the UFC... Hell, looks like Lutter almost had him in their fight...

[Corey]

He's a god in the UFC, but I've seen him get fucking owned outside the UFC... Hell, looks like Lutter almost had him in their fight...

Silva looked like shit against Patrick Cote. I think if Cote didn't get injured it could have been interesting.

[jalaan1]

yeah, almost.
wait n see.

Silva looked like shit against Patrick Cote. I think if Cote didn't get injured it could have been interesting.


i will agree on that one.

[OneSickPsycho]

Silva looked like shit against Patrick Cote. I think if Cote didn't get injured it could have been interesting.

I'd really like to see a rematch...

[Porkchop]

What did you think of the fights the other night?

Honestly I thought they were unimpressive and the most boring lineup of fights in awhile. The Henderson/Franklin bout was lame. Egan and Hathaway was boring. Coleman and Shogun was only mildly entertaining because Coleman was dead and burried half way thru the first but almost made it to the decision. I cant decide if it was pity on Rua's part, but whatever it was it made him look silly when a old, tired, and out of shape Coleman kept him on the ground most of the third. Palheres looked like a beast tho.

[OneSickPsycho]

What did you think of the fights the other night?

Honestly I thought they were unimpressive and the most boring lineup of fights in awhile. The Henderson/Franklin bout was lame. Egan and Hathaway was boring. Coleman and Shogun was only mildly entertaining because Coleman was dead and burried half way thru the first but almost made it to the decision. I cant decide if it was pity on Rua's part, but whatever it was it made him look silly when a old, tired, and out of shape Coleman kept him on the ground most of the third. Palheres looked like a beast tho.

Didn't see 'em...

[Lucky3623]

I'd really like to see a rematch...

Yah no doubt. I think Cote could have held his own for at least 2 rounds... after that, all bets are off.


The Penn/St. Pierre fight has me torn! I really like both of them, though BJ is a cocky SOB. I don't know who to bet on... SUCK!

[Quick281]

I was not impressed with Penn tonight. Pierre looked rather winded at first but by the end of the fight he barely looked worked up at all.

I did however love the Machida/Silva fight. They could not have been any more equal on the stats board. Machida handled him though.

[JoJoYZF]

I was not impressed with Penn tonight. Pierre looked rather winded at first but by the end of the fight he barely looked worked up at all.

I did however love the Machida/Silva fight. They could not have been any more equal on the stats board. Machida handled him though.

I never saw Pierre get winded, but he absolutely dominated every aspect of that fight. I cant believe Penn thought it was a good idea to bump up a weight class to fight GSP.

I cant stand Machida, this was the second fight that he just ran away from his opponent and would come back to throw one shot, and then just run some more.

[OneSickPsycho]

I never saw Pierre get winded, but he absolutely dominated every aspect of that fight. I cant believe Penn thought it was a good idea to bump up a weight class to fight GSP.

I cant stand Machida, this was the second fight that he just ran away from his opponent and would come back to throw one shot, and then just run some more.

Machida whooped dudes ass, there's not really more you can say about that. If someone went in with a gameplan that forced that dude out of his comfort zone (which obviously is counter-attacking), then we'd see what he's all about. If everyone keeps coming at him and plays his game, we'll see that guy do well.

I sorta expected the Penn/Pierre fight to end up that way, but I was hoping not. Pierre is just too strong for Penn to compete with at that weight. Penn looked pretty decent in the first round, then Pierre just dominated... Penn couldn't do shit. I'm interested in seeing how Penn comes back when he drops back down to his proper weight class.

I'll tell you who excited me the most... Jon Jones or whatever the fuck that guy's name was... Unorthodox, fast, powerful, and fantastic takedowns. Bonner has never been one to impress me, but he's a solid competitor and tough as nails... Ol' dude just kicked his ass. With better conditioning and a more rounded game (some maturity) that guy's gonna be cash money.

[Quick281]

Machida whooped dudes ass, there's not really more you can say about that. If someone went in with a gameplan that forced that dude out of his comfort zone (which obviously is counter-attacking), then we'd see what he's all about. If everyone keeps coming at him and plays his game, we'll see that guy do well.

I sorta expected the Penn/Pierre fight to end up that way, but I was hoping not. Pierre is just too strong for Penn to compete with at that weight. Penn looked pretty decent in the first round, then Pierre just dominated... Penn couldn't do shit. I'm interested in seeing how Penn comes back when he drops back down to his proper weight class.

I'll tell you who excited me the most... Jon Jones or whatever the fuck that guy's name was... Unorthodox, fast, powerful, and fantastic takedowns. Bonner has never been one to impress me, but he's a solid competitor and tough as nails... Ol' dude just kicked his ass. With better conditioning and a more rounded game (some maturity) that guy's gonna be cash money.


Could not agree with you more about the Jon Jones guy. He was very in control of that entire fight but I give props to the other guy who took the hits and kept on trucking. Jon Jones does have a bright future indeed.

Having not followed UFC in quite some time I didn't realize that Penn had done up a weight class to fight GSP. I suppose that helps to explain how things went down.

[JoJoYZF]

Machida whooped dudes ass, there's not really more you can say about that. If someone went in with a gameplan that forced that dude out of his comfort zone (which obviously is counter-attacking), then we'd see what he's all about. If everyone keeps coming at him and plays his game, we'll see that guy do well.

I sorta expected the Penn/Pierre fight to end up that way, but I was hoping not. Pierre is just too strong for Penn to compete with at that weight. Penn looked pretty decent in the first round, then Pierre just dominated... Penn couldn't do shit. I'm interested in seeing how Penn comes back when he drops back down to his proper weight class.

I'll tell you who excited me the most... Jon Jones or whatever the fuck that guy's name was... Unorthodox, fast, powerful, and fantastic takedowns. Bonner has never been one to impress me, but he's a solid competitor and tough as nails... Ol' dude just kicked his ass. With better conditioning and a more rounded game (some maturity) that guy's gonna be cash money.

True, he does execute his game plan very well, but the ortiz fight still sucked to me due to the fact that he ran away for most of it.

And Jon Jones was definitely a beast. I had never heard of him before last night but that guy is gonna be tough for anyone to handle if he fights like he did last night.

[OneSickPsycho]

True, he does execute his game plan very well, but the ortiz fight still sucked to me due to the fact that he ran away for most of it.

And Jon Jones was definitely a beast. I had never heard of him before last night but that guy is gonna be tough for anyone to handle if he fights like he did last night.

I still say Machida is smart... Dude's been hit less than anyone in the UFC... I think the whole point is to inflict damage without getting hit, right?

JJ needs conditioning... He was a wet noodle in the 3rd round...

[JoJoYZF]

I still say Machida is smart... Dude's been hit less than anyone in the UFC... I think the whole point is to inflict damage without getting hit, right?

JJ needs conditioning... He was a wet noodle in the 3rd round...

I can see how its a great fight plan and everything but Id like to see him actually push the action more. Instead of running around for 3 rounds and occasionally attacking, why not just push the pace.

And he definitely did seem to wear himself out after the first 2 rounds. He was great until then, so if he gets the stamina in check he could be a beast.

[OneSickPsycho]

I can see how its a great fight plan and everything but Id like to see him actually push the action more. Instead of running around for 3 rounds and occasionally attacking, why not just push the pace.

And he definitely did seem to wear himself out after the first 2 rounds. He was great until then, so if he gets the stamina in check he could be a beast.


Why not push the pace? Why don't you ask Thiago Silva that question?

[JoJoYZF]

Why not push the pace? Why don't you ask Thiago Silva that question?

I understand that, but also just explaining why I dont like him as a fighter. I have a hard time being entertained by watching a fight where one guy just runs around for the whole thing. Still respect his abilities, but not a fan.

[Mr Lefty]

I didn't see the fight... but what do you think?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/mma_experts/post/Did-GSP-s-corner-cheat-to-give-him-an-edge-?urn=mma,138156

Did GSP's corner cheat to give him an edge?

By Steve Cofield

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mma_experts__5/ept_sports_mma_experts-694195151-1233551528.jpg?ympSBvADAAo4dUQ8


After a dominating victory over B.J. Penn at UFC 94, Georges St. Pierre is clearly the better fighter. GSP left no doubt. And yet now there is, thanks to one of his cornermen, Phil Nurse. It's pretty clear by watching the video that Nurse had some Vaseline on his hands when he rubbed St. Pierre's shoulders, back and chest between the first and second rounds.

Why is that a big deal in mixed martial arts? It's significant because of all the grappling and maneuvering that takes place on the ground. St. Pierre was on top of Penn in the second round and the Hawaiian tried several times to shift his legs up to work for a triangle choke or an armbar. Grip and some friction is huge in these cases and a slippery fighter would make it more difficult to lock on one of those holds. Above you can see, Nurse apply Vaseline to GSP's face, then get more Vaseline, then rub his shoulders, arms and back.

Penn's trainer Rudy Valentino told InsideFighting that St. Pierre cheated and the Vaseline thwarted his fighter's strategy:

"To cheat to win is not honorable. Why need another edge? Our gameplan was on the ground, not striking because we knew Georges had good kicks. We planned to work off the back."

Valentino says they warned the Nevada State Athletic Commission before the fight alleging that St. Pierre did it before their meeting in 2006 and that Matt Serra's camp claimed the same thing happened in Serra's second fight against GSP.

Greg Jackson, GSP's trainer hurt his reputation according to Valentino:

"I respect Greg Jackson but to do something like that, his integrity has been compromised."

Jackson told his side of the story to MMAWeekly:

"In between rounds, you always want to put on vaseline on (a fighter’s face). So Phil Nurse put all the Vaseline on his face, so his hands might have had a miniscule amount left over from that, when he went around the side and rubbed a little point on his back, and tapped on his chest."

Watching the scenarios (1, 2, 3), show Nurse did more than tap the chest and rub a little point on GSP's back.

Jackson chalked all of this up to an overreaction by the NSAC:

"At that point, somebody in the audience thought we were greasing George down, and ran over and told the commission that we were greasing his body down. The commission came in and said ‘you can’t grease him down,’ which didn’t work. They said ‘you’re putting Vaseline on his back,’ and Phil’s like, ‘oh, there might be a little on my fingers, but it wasn’t intentional at all, and of course they wiped it right off and it was gone, so it wasn’t a factor in the fight at all."

"The Commission" was actually NSAC executive director Keith Kizer. He bolted into the cage when he saw Nurse doing the same thing between the second and third rounds. Cage Writer spoke with Kizer after the fight and he was still steaming, saying that the rubbing of the back with Vaseline was completely inappropriate. But he was unsure if it had been done between the first and second.

UFC president Dana White also thought it was a serious violation:

"I saw the commission jump up there and flip out," said White. "They said one of the guys was rubbing Vaseline on Georges' back in between rounds. It was one and two, I think. I personally didn't see it, the commission did. And that's about as illegal as you can get... I'm sure the commission is going to deal (with it)."

White didn't believe that it affected the outcome of the fight but he re-stated that illegal is illegal:

"You could have put Vaseline on from head to toe, that wasn't the point, the point was you don't do it. It's illegal. The guy who did it needs to be punished, it's not (St. Pierre's) fault. The question is what happens to a guy that does that. You've got to put the smack down on him. He should lose his license."

Ultimately, did the use of the Vaseline win the fight for St. Pierre? No. But Penn's camp does have a right to complain.

St. Pierre should be getting props for being the better conditioned fighter, designing and executing the perfect gameplan. The way he wore down Penn in the first round by holding his left leg up on three occasions with the threat of a single-leg takedown, was brilliant. It allowed him takedown a tired Penn with ease in each of the next three rounds. More importantly, GSP was able to pass guard and shift between full guard and side control as if he were fighting a first-year jiu-jitsu student. Now Penn, other fighters who dislike St. Pierre and fans may call for an asterisk on his dominant victory.

[Quick281]

Interesting find but I would say it would have been more relevant if BJ Penn had been trying to grapple him and GSP kept magically sliding out. But it wasn't even close, GPS straight whooped.

If they are mad about it, rest up and challenge again and make sure the vaseline isn't applied. I don't see a different outcome assuming both fighters were in the same condition as this past fight.

[OneSickPsycho]

Interesting find but I would say it would have been more relevant if BJ Penn had been trying to grapple him and GSP kept magically sliding out. But it wasn't even close, GPS straight whooped.

If they are mad about it, rest up and challenge again and make sure the vaseline isn't applied. I don't see a different outcome assuming both fighters were in the same condition as this past fight.

I think the point made about the ease in which GSP slid out of the triangles Penn tried to apply... The commentators even noticed how Penn could not hold on and chalked it up to him being sweaty... GSP slipped out of no fewer than 5 triangle attempts... I'd say Penn has a legitimate beef.

[JoJoYZF]

I think the point made about the ease in which GSP slid out of the triangles Penn tried to apply... The commentators even noticed how Penn could not hold on and chalked it up to him being sweaty... GSP slipped out of no fewer than 5 triangle attempts... I'd say Penn has a legitimate beef.

The thing that Im wondering is where all the vaseline was applied. I saw him rub his shoulders and chest, but I thought most of the triangle attempts were closer to GSPs stomach and lower back where there wasnt any vaseline. I could be wrong on that, but it looked like it wouldnt have a huge effect judging by the area.

[OneSickPsycho]

The thing that Im wondering is where all the vaseline was applied. I saw him rub his shoulders and chest, but I thought most of the triangle attempts were closer to GSPs stomach and lower back where there wasnt any vaseline. I could be wrong on that, but it looked like it wouldnt have a huge effect judging by the area.

The triangle is a choke... Penn repeatedly locked GSP's neck and arm in position and he slipped right out each time...

[JoJoYZF]

The triangle is a choke... Penn repeatedly locked GSP's neck and arm in position and he slipped right out each time...

I was thinking body triangle. Yeah, thats a legit complaint then, but I for some reason was thinking about a body triangle, not a triangle choke.

[Amorok]

Dude, you could have covered him in rubber cement and Penn wouldn't have got that choke. Thi sis what's known as "Sour Grapes."