Dear Abby...

[the chi]

Head up her ass or no?

DEAR ABBY: I am only 24, but consider myself an old-fashioned parent. My wife and I have three daughters who are the center of our lives. Everywhere we go, we are complimented on how well-behaved our children are. When asked for our "secret," we tell the truth -- we use the belt to keep our children in line. When I was a child, my mom did the same with me, and I know it's more help than harm.

The problem is, as soon as people hear it they assume we simply beat our kids into submission. How can I help people understand that discipline and abuse are two different things? -- JOHN IN SAVANNAH

DEAR JOHN: Abuse and discipline ARE two different things. Abuse is punishment. Discipline teaches -- and helps a child to eventually become self-disciplined. Using a belt on your little girls shows them that violence is acceptable -- and that they can expect it from you, just as you learned it was acceptable from your parents.

There are more effective ways to communicate with children than by hitting them with belts. Grounding them, taking away toys, cell phone and television privileges are effective, nonviolent and preferable means of letting a child know that certain behaviors are unacceptable.

I say head up her ass!! I am a full advocate of a kid getting their butt beat when warranted. I had my fair share as a child, and they were all deserved. But my parents also made clear before and after that they loved me, preferred not to do it, but that I gave them no choice.

As a result, I am a well balanced (usually), responsible adult who totally respects and loves my parents. They didnt beat me, nor do I think spanking is an act of violence (unless it is abuse) but theres a difference between spanking and abuse. As for being an advocate of it, HELL YES, beat a kids ass when they need it. My parents beat my butt, but resorted to Dear Abby's other methods of discipline with my 2 much younger sisters. As a result, my sisters disrespect, talk back, and walk all over my parents, with my oldest sister actaully raising her hand to them a time or 2. Grounding, time out, verbal punishment just simply doesnt do it. At least not in my family.

Whats ya'lls take?

[Mr Lefty]

abby is a whore... sorry but not all punishment is abuse...

I'm sure she has no problem with someone gettting tazored or shot if they were trying to rape her or hurt her...

there is a fine line between punishment and abuse... but to say globally that punishment is abuse is bullshit.

[fatbuckRTO]

Was there ever any doubt that Abby had her head up her ass?

Sometimes the only way to get a child's full attention is to spank them. I'd say it should be a very last resort, though, because I've seen what happens to some kids who get spanked too much. It just becomes routine and the message, the idea of "this is the very worst I could possibly do to you, that's how bad you fucked up," gets lost.

I think grounding is effective for older kids, because they're more defined by their social interactions. Younger kids can entertain themselves for hours with a stray piece of paper, so grounding is less effective for them.

abby is a whore... sorry but not all punishment is abuse... Exactly. By that same token, not all abuse is punishment. Some people abuse just to abuse. If an adult can't make the distinction, there's little hope for her child. The idea that children should never be punished is pure naivety, and a dangerous way to raise a child.

[rogue]

I got my ass spanked with a belt, flyswat, or switch anytime I got out of line. I spanked mine too. When they were little it was with my hand....one or two usually done the trick. When a hand spanking -as no longer effective, I spatted them with a paint stirring stick. As they begin to get older & understand punishment more, the firs time I talked to them, the second was grounding, spankings last.

Both of mine are teens now. Usually discussing the issue works. I haven't had to ground them in over a year, but my kids are generally good too. There's not much they do I need to discipline them for.

[Mr Lefty]

Was there ever any doubt that Abby had her head up her ass?

Sometimes the only way to get a child's full attention is to spank them. I'd say it should be a very last resort, though, because I've seen what happens to some kids who get spanked too much. It just becomes routine and the message, the idea of "this is the very worst I could possibly do to you, that's how bad you fucked up," gets lost.

I think grounding is effective for older kids, because they're more defined by their social interactions. Younger kids can entertain themselves for hours with a stray piece of paper, so grounding is less effective for them.

Exactly. By that same token, not all abuse is punishment. Some people abuse just to abuse. If an adult can't make the distinction, there's little hope for her child.

exactly... by that same token... abby is a moron.

[jtemple]

I'm All for corporal punishment. I use it on my own son. The key is to figure out what is effective on your child and follow through with punishments. If your punishments are nothing but empty threats, they are guaranteed to fail.

If you are going to use physical punishment on a child, it is very important that you dish it out without anger. If you are angry, Send your kid to their room while you cool off. Parents that get angry and punish their children are more likely to lose control and take it too far.

As stated above, be quick to show your child some love after punishment.

[the chi]

Glad to know Im not crazy here...there is a line btw the 2 that should be carefully observed...I am not one to stand quiet when I see evidence of abuse, but neither will I interfere with a parent punishing their child so long as it stays within the punishment and not abuse area.

[JARVIS518]

got my ass beat with belts and whatever else that was in reach of my dad,
i turned out ok i think

[fatbuckRTO]

As a result, my sisters disrespect, talk back, and walk all over my parents, with my oldest sister actaully raising her hand to them a time or 2. Grounding, time out, verbal punishment just simply doesnt do it. At least not in my family.

Whats ya'lls take?Jesus Christ, my dad would have taken me in the back yard and made me a cripple. And rightly so.

My mom slapped me one time when I was about 14, and I saw it coming and could have caught her hand. I didn't because I knew exactly what would have happened to me if I did.

[rogue]

I'm All for corporal punishment. I use it on my own son. The key is to figure out what is effective on your child and follow through with punishments. If your punishments are nothing but empty threats, they are guaranteed to fail.

If you are going to use physical punishment on a child, it is very important that you dish it out without anger. If you are angry, Send your kid to their room while you cool off. Parents that get angry and punish their children are more likely to lose control and take it too far.

As stated above, be quick to show your child some love after punishment.

:iagree:

Especially about not punishing while angry.

[Adeptus_Minor]

I'm All for corporal punishment. I use it on my own son. The key is to figure out what is effective on your child and follow through with punishments. If your punishments are nothing but empty threats, they are guaranteed to fail.

If you are going to use physical punishment on a child, it is very important that you dish it out without anger. If you are angry, Send your kid to their room while you cool off. Parents that get angry and punish their children are more likely to lose control and take it too far.

As stated above, be quick to show your child some love after punishment.

Best way I could think to put it. :dthumb:

[the chi]

Jesus Christ, my dad would have taken me in the back yard and made me a cripple. And rightly so.

My mom slapped me one time when I was about 14, and I saw it coming and could have caught her hand. I didn't because I knew exactly what would have happened to me if I did.

Reminds me of the one and only time I got in my mom's face, sorta (shes 8 inches taller than me). We were arguing, and I antagonized her into hitting me. Moms got one HELLUVA right hook. I never saw it coming! Then I did it again!! Thats the one and only time my mom EVER hit me like that, and I asked for it, literally! :lol:

Other than that, yeah, corporal punishment does require love, and respect on both parts.

[pickle.of.doom]

Hmmm...

My mom used to spank me with a ping pong paddle.

One day I had enough of that, grabbed it, started hitting her back with it.

[rogue]

Here's a good story:

I was 16 the last time my mama whipped me. She had grounded me from the phone & busted me using it when I *thought* she was asleep. She got me good with the belt. I squirmed the whole time she whipped me, causing me to have red marks the width of the belt in other places other than my ass. Being a rebellous shit, I threatened to call the cops on her for child abuse & she called my bluff by diaing the number & handing me the phone. So a cop came, asked questions & looked at all the red marks on my legs and even one on my chest. After making his inspection, he looked me right in the eyes & told me I deserved it, then left. :lol:

I guess hearing the cop take up for & that it was ok for her to "beat me" (this was in the late '80's), I didn't do anything else to warrant that type of punishment. :lol:

[njchopper87]

I had my ass beat with a ruler, spatula, fly swatter, and other random cooking utensils. I deserved it each and every time.. I plan on doing the same to my kids as well. It works. Agreed though with the fine line shit.

[Mr Lefty]

got my ass beat with belts and whatever else that was in reach of my dad,
i turned out ok i think

same here... my dad favored his leather gun strap... fucker hurt!

[Cutty72]

a smack on the ass when you're young makes a mere look from the old man efficient when you are older.

[Quick281]

I was a pretty good kid so my mom says I only got spanked maybe once or twice in my life. I did however still get in trouble for little stuff.

One day however I was about 15 and we were heading home from school. I was in the passenger seat just yelling and bitching about something retarded, probably calling her names and stuff. My step father had just passed away so we were rather tense.

Anyways I was practically asking to be slapped and my 58 year old mother somehow hit a bump while extending her arm and she managed to elbow my head straight into the passenger window.

I silenced up instantly and even though she had no intention of doing that to me, she played it off. None the less I got my shit together RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY.

My kids will be spanked when they are little but at they grow older I will hope that there will be no need for slapping but I would not hesitate to slap either a daughter or son if one of them were to raise a hand to my wife of the future. But for things like grades, allowances and general obedience I expect to take things like cell phones and cars away.

But shit, I don't plan to be a parent for years!

[Cutty72]

One prob with that though. Kind of hard to take away cell phones and cars if they don't have them!

My kids won't have a cell... and they won't have a car till they can buy their own.

[Quick281]

One prob with that though. Kind of hard to take away cell phones and cars if they don't have them!

My kids won't have a cell... and they won't have a car till they can buy their own.


True but you can always do things like ground them and take away basic internet/house phone/hanging out with friends. Kids always have something they don't want to lose.

[OneSickPsycho]

As one may suspect, I was an ornery kid... I've always been too smart for my own good, had a mouth full of sass, and have always pushed the limits of authority... My parents whipped me... Mom more than dad, because dad being the ominous force he is (6'2", 325lbs) could just yell and the fear was all it took...

That being said, Abby is a fucking retard... and most of these 'experts' are fucking retards too. Children, especially highly intelligent and creative children like lil' OSP, are not affected by the loss of toys, privileges, etc.

When I was a kid you could put me in time out for hours and I'd sit there, count as high as I could, make up songs, play games in my head, etc... and be just as happy as if you sat me in a room full of sugary sweets and all the toys in the world... The ONLY thing that got my attention and made me fear the repercussions of my actions was an ass-whoopin'.

Now... do I think a belt is necessary? No. Do I think sometimes it may take more than an open handed swat? Well, my sister has this big wooden spoon that works fucking wonders...

Is there a link to when this was originally posted? I'd really like to drum up some responses for Ms. Abby.

[Cutty72]

True but you can always do things like ground them and take away basic internet/house phone/hanging out with friends. Kids always have something they don't want to lose.

Oh i know. Just pisses me off to see all these little teens in HS walking around with all brand new phones/ipods/etc and driving a car that is nicer and newer than anything I own.

[OneSickPsycho]

Oh i know. Just pisses me off to see all these little teens in HS walking around with all brand new phones/ipods/etc and driving a car that is nicer and newer than anything I own.

It's been like that for a very long time...

[Mr Lefty]

Oh i know. Just pisses me off to see all these little teens in HS walking around with all brand new phones/ipods/etc and driving a car that is nicer and newer than anything I own.

see below

It's been like that for a very long time...

no doubt... there were kids in my HS that had brand new BMW M3's... a girl who had a brand new car each year of HS... I'd say 50% drove a car newer and more expensive than the ones my parents owned... and over half of them had the car in their name... not their parents. :idk:

that'll never change

[OneSickPsycho]

Me and my group of friends were the minority throughout our HS that didn't have new... or even newer vehicles... Our median vehicle age was probably 10 years... Except for one of my friends... He was loaded... He started off driving a 2-year old Bronco Eddie Bauer, then one day woke up and his parents had traded it in on a brand new Expedition... not for him, but for his mom... though he got to drive it... Within two weeks his folks bought another fully-loaded Expedition, gave him the first one.... and also a Lincoln Navigator... When he graduated, he got a brand new fully loaded 3/4 ton Ford pickup...

Now... the difference between him and 99.9% of the other kids in school. Looking at him... talking to him... You'd never notice. He always wore ratty band shirts, had long hair, beat up jeans, etc, etc... He was the most down to earth person you could ever meet... Hell, his older brother was the same way...

[Cutty72]

i know it's been that way for awhile. but my kids may hate me for it, but they will have to earn their own shit, just like I did.

[Mr Lefty]

Me and my group of friends were the minority throughout our HS that didn't have new... or even newer vehicles... Our median vehicle age was probably 10 years... Except for one of my friends... He was loaded... He started off driving a 2-year old Bronco Eddie Bauer, then one day woke up and his parents had traded it in on a brand new Expedition... not for him, but for his mom... though he got to drive it... Within two weeks his folks bought another fully-loaded Expedition, gave him the first one.... and also a Lincoln Navigator... When he graduated, he got a brand new fully loaded 3/4 ton Ford pickup...

Now... the difference between him and 99.9% of the other kids in school. Looking at him... talking to him... You'd never notice. He always wore ratty band shirts, had long hair, beat up jeans, etc, etc... He was the most down to earth person you could ever meet... Hell, his older brother was the same way...


up until my senior year... I drove a Geo metro... :lol: but my friends nor I could have cared less... I had wheels... I did get to drive my dad's GMC 3500 4x4 from time to time... but not often, as for some reason it got like 7mpg when I drove it... :lol:

my senior year my parents bought me a 88 Chevy blazer for $400... I fixed the transmission and replaced the head gasket. that thing was one of the worst POS I've ever driven... even looked like a piece of shit... it was brown with a light brown stripe... :lol:

[z06boy]

I don't agree with Abbey and have no problem with spankings...well up to a certain point anyways.

I also have no problem with kids earning or at the minimum "helping" to pay for their cars...etc. I had to and I feel that it definitely makes one appreciate what they have that much more.

[Trip]

People like Abby is the reason kids are such bastards today. Beat your kids, they deserve it.

[Papa_Complex]

A little non-permanent pain is probably the best teacher of discipline. You do something wrong and there is an immediate, palpable penalty.

Hell, I lost count of the number of times that I got the hand, shoe, belt, or even occasionally a hair brush actually busted on my ass as a kid. After that getting my knuckles rapped with a ruler by a teacher was a joke.

[marko138]

People like Abby is the reason kids are such bastards today. Beat your kids, they deserve it.
ding ding ding. We have a winner.

[Ducati Diva]

:iagree: I never beat my kids but they got their ass spanked when neeeded when they were little. By the time teenage years rolled around I t wasn't needed. The "mom eye" worked just fine cause they knew I was serious:lol:

[azoomm]

I have never raised a hand to my childen. And, never will. I agree with Abby that there are better ways to convei a message than with violence. I understand spankings do not equal abuse. But, there are better ways to teach a child right from wrong than a violent method.

[the chi]

OSP, this was yesterdays article...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucda/20090201/lf_ucda/siblingsfeelabandonedbytheirwidowedmother;_ylt=AjZ _JNfOXeQxNs3vzZQAT37NbbUC

[Rider]

It's funny, most of the advocates of hitting your kid, don't have kids and most of them that do have kids are against it. Maybe it's a good thing some of you don't have kids.

Kids don't need to be beaten. You need to discipline them at an early age that what you say goes and if they disobey, then there are consequences to be paid, like no TV/Video games, no desert, no toys...... If you have to beat your kids to get them to listen to you, then maybe you are just not a good parent.

[fatbuckRTO]

It's funny, most of the advocates of hitting your kid, don't have kids and most of them that do have kids are against it. If that were true, it seems like there would be a lot fewer people sharing stories of getting spanked as a child.

Kids are kids. If you can raise the perfect child without spankings, good on you. Most of the kids I know, regardless of how well behaved they are most of the time, still fuck up every now and then to the degree that they need immediate and harsh repercusions.

[CrazyKell]

I have never raised a hand to my childen. And, never will. I agree with Abby that there are better ways to convei a message than with violence. I understand spankings do not equal abuse. But, there are better ways to teach a child right from wrong than a violent method.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!:dthumb:

[MikeSP1]

I did a lot of really stupid shit growing up, and I got my ass handed to me. It wasn't the most enjoyable thing that's ever happened to me, but I learned a lot from it. And I deserved it every single time. I'm living proof that some people have to learn certain lessons the hard way. Respect and self discipline were the bigger ones. Although I live alone, I feel as though I'm well off, at least in a relative sense. And if not for the lessons taught to me, I wouldn't have become what I am now. I'm proud of what I am, and I know that if not for the fundamental lessons (some easy and others not so easy) I would not be able to hold my head high. I wasn't easy on my folks, but they had the determination to make sure I turned out alright. And for that, they have my thanks.

[Rider]

If that were true, it seems like there would be a lot fewer people sharing stories of getting spanked as a child.
.

I was talking about the people who responded to this thread, not the general population.

[2up]

I have never raised a hand to my childen. And, never will. I agree with Abby that there are better ways to convei a message than with violence. I understand spankings do not equal abuse. But, there are better ways to teach a child right from wrong than a violent method.


I did swat my kids on the butt when they were little, and I mean when they were in diapers little and it was truly a swat on the butt meant to get their attention not hurt. Other than that I ONCE spanked one of them when she was a bit older and in retrospect it wasn't as effective as the other forms of punishment were. I also did, one time, slap the mouth of one of them who as a teenager in a teenager shitty mood thought calling me a bitch was a good idea.

My siblings and I, as well as my husband and his, all got spankings, and they didn't do a damn bit of good. I DO NOT believe in being overly touch-feely with kids. There MUST BE consequences of breaking rules, etc, but if you as a parent don't take the time to find out why your kid is being a little rule breaking ass (other than teenage rebellion of course) then you're not doing them any good.

ETA: In case I didn't make it clear, I'm not a fan of spanking as a whole.

[fatbuckRTO]

I was talking about the people who responded to this thread, not the general population.

I accept your internet poll challenge.

[shmike]

IIRC, prior to you there was one parent that had a no touching policy.

All others believed in or have used corporal punishment.

What did I miss? :scratch:

[fnfalman]

Nothing wrong with corporal punishment...as long as it's properly meted out. Because frankly lots of times, talking and timeouts and taking away toys just won't do it but a bit of pain would serve quite well as reminders. However, there's a way to mete out punishment. Most people who beat their kids do it out of anger and beat their kids insensate. That does nothing but numb the kids to the pain not to mention doing some fucked shits to their heads. For example, when my brothers and I were children, we were quite mischevious and misbehaved on a regular basis.

Our father and grandfather would start whomping on us and it did nothing but bred resentment. We never cried no matter how hard they slapped and kicked us.

When my mother did it, she explained to us what we did was wrong and why it disappointed her that she would have to beat us. She used a switch which only did superficial damage but quite painful. However, the most important thing was that she made us feel remorseful about doing the things that we did.

[Papa_Complex]

It's funny, most of the advocates of hitting your kid, don't have kids and most of them that do have kids are against it. Maybe it's a good thing some of you don't have kids.

Kids don't need to be beaten. You need to discipline them at an early age that what you say goes and if they disobey, then there are consequences to be paid, like no TV/Video games, no desert, no toys...... If you have to beat your kids to get them to listen to you, then maybe you are just not a good parent.

There is a night and day difference between physical punishment and 'beating' your kids.

[Rider]

There is a night and day difference between physical punishment and 'beating' your kids.

My point is is that if you have to spank your kids to get them to listen to you, then you are doing it wrong. Spanking them makes them resent you AND fear you. I don't want my kids to be afraid of me, I want my kids respect me as a parent and listen what I have to say, not listen for fear of having pain inflicted upon them. I don't want my kids to ever be afraid of anything. You go ahead and spank your kids and when they turn out emo, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[Papa_Complex]

My point is is that if you have to spank your kids to get them to listen to you, then you are doing it wrong. Spanking them makes them resent you AND fear you. I don't want my kids to be afraid of me, I want my kids respect me as a parent and listen what I have to say, not listen for fear of having pain inflicted upon them. I don't want my kids to ever be afraid of anything. You go ahead and spank your kids and when they turn out emo, you have no one to blame but yourself.

How many adults do you know who were spanked as children, then turned out emo? The emo types that I've run into have traditionally been coddled kids who got a rather rude awakening when they got out into the real world, then found out that it'll slap them down hard for being stupid (or just for kicks).

[fatbuckRTO]

In some cases, the lesson could easily be lost by waiting for some presently intangible punishment to manifest (i.e., waiting for a grounding to sink in or waiting for a good-talking-too actually be heard).

Rider, I'm curious what you do in response to an act that requires instant, immediate, and inarguable recognition that the act will not be tolerated. For instance, what would you do if one of your kids struck you or your wife?

[Rider]

How many adults do you know who were spanked as children, then turned out emo? The emo types that I've run into have traditionally been coddled kids who got a rather rude awakening when they got out into the real world, then found out that it'll slap them down hard for being stupid (or just for kicks).

That's why I have very strict rules in my house. Probably tougher than most.

[2up]

In some cases, the lesson could easily be lost by waiting for some presently intangible punishment to manifest (i.e., waiting for a grounding to sink in or waiting for a good-talking-too actually be heard).

Rider, I'm curious what you do in response to an act that requires instant, immediate, and inarguable recognition that the act will not be tolerated. For instance, what would you do if one of your kids struck you or your wife?

But how does hitting teach that hitting is bad? My kids NEVER raised a hand to me. And let me assure you that one of my daughter's went through a VERY pain in the ass teenage phase. Wanna know why? Because her father was a strict asshole who never took the time to speak to his children about what was going on with them. He just spanked them and grounded them without finding out if, for example, they were having a tough time with a certain class because it was a subject that was inherently difficult for them.

[Rider]

Rider, I'm curious what you do in response to an act that requires instant, immediate, and inarguable recognition that the act will not be tolerated. For instance, what would you do if one of your kids struck you or your wife?

Funny you ask, because I have had this happen on more than one occasion. I'll always defend myself and my wife, but I have still never spanked him or hit him.. I have pinned my son to the ground before until he calmed down. Another time I lifted him off the ground and dropped him on his tail bone. Oh and for the record, CPS was notified about that event and they came out to my house to investigate. My son is now 12 as of a couple of weeks ago and he is about 5'7" and about 160lbs+. He also takes Taekwondo and has been in competitive wrestling. Thankfully he hasn't been physical in a while, I think the CPS visit got his attention. He also knows that if that ever happened again, his ass would be kicked out of my house forever. My daughter I dont have to worry about, she is a sweet little angel.

[z06boy]

Spanking = emo ? :lol:

Now that was funny !!

[shmike]

Funny you ask, because I have had this happen on more than one occasion. I'll always defend myself and my wife, but I have still never spanked him or hit him.. I have pinned my son to the ground before until he calmed down. Another time I lifted him off the ground and dropped him on his tail bone. Oh and for the record, CPS was notified about that event and they came out to my house to investigate. My son is now 12 as of a couple of weeks ago and he is about 5'7" and about 160lbs+. He also takes Taekwondo and has been in competitive wrestling. Thankfully he hasn't been physical in a while, I think the CPS visit got his attention. He also knows that if that ever happened again, his ass would be kicked out of my house forever. My daughter I dont have to worry about, she is a sweet little angel.

So spanking = bad.

Wrestling(pinning) the kid to the ground / throwing them on ass = acceptable.

Got it. :scratch:

[Rider]

So spanking = bad.

Wrestling(pinning) the kid to the ground / throwing them on ass = acceptable.

Got it. :scratch:

Pinning him to the ground inflicted no pain. The dropping him on his ass was out of self defense. What part of spanking is self defense? None! You fail, pack up your bags and go home.

[JoJoYZF]

So spanking = bad.

Wrestling(pinning) the kid to the ground / throwing them on ass = acceptable.

Got it. :scratch:

Thats what Im lost on too. So you wont smack them on the ass, but pinning them to the ground and actually picking them up and throwing them on their ass is ok? What kind of logic is that?

And I was only spanked once or twice as a kid, but it definitely got the job done. I was rarely in trouble, so when I actually got that, I knew I fucked up. And no rider, I did not grow up to resent my parents for it. I deserved it the few times I got it.

[JoJoYZF]

Pinning him to the ground inflicted no pain. The dropping him on his ass was out of self defense. What part of spanking is self defense? None! You fail, pack up your bags and go home.

Nope, just inflicted discomfort, which is about all the spankings I got caused. I didnt get beat within an inch of my life, I got smacked on the ass to show me I fucked up pretty bad.

[Mr Lefty]

My point is is that if you have to spank your kids to get them to listen to you, then you are doing it wrong. Spanking them makes them resent you AND fear you. I don't want my kids to be afraid of me, I want my kids respect me as a parent and listen what I have to say, not listen for fear of having pain inflicted upon them. I don't want my kids to ever be afraid of anything. You go ahead and spank your kids and when they turn out emo, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I disagree... I never feared my dad... I feared the repercussions if I did something wrong. but not my dad...

to be honest... it took me a lot longer to earn proper respect for my mom... because she never spanked me... all her punishments were telling me to go sit in my room... or what ever.

it wasn't until my senior year before I really started listening to my mom... and that was only because I realized what an asshole I was being to her and wanted to stop.

My dad on the other hand had my respect for as long as I remember... not because I feared the belt... but because I knew his words weren't empty.

[VatorMan]

Glad to hear SOME common sense in this thread.

Not every spanking is violent. How many times did you tell your kid (or were told as a kid) that the stove is hot before (he) you had to touch it to see if it was true?
MOST kids will push the envelope to see how far they can go before the parent decides to discipline. Parents need to learn what type of discipline works on every child. My son had an iron ass-so his discipline usually revolved around truly suck ass chores or writing sentences. My daughter I could correct just by a pop on the butt. She was a really good kid-I maybe had to 4 times in her life.

Teenage years-I threatened to take them to school and drop them off at the front door wearing my cowboy boots-Dallas Cowboy Zubaz (look it up if you don't know) and a wife beater on. They knew I would do it too. It worked.

Both have since graduated from college with my daughter a year from her Masters degree. BOTH have said they appreciate the discipline in our house as their friends are all f'ed up. You guessed it, Non discipline parents.

[fatbuckRTO]

Pinning him to the ground inflicted no pain. The dropping him on his ass was out of self defense. What part of spanking is self defense? None! That's the whole point. Spanking is precautionary, or pre-emptive, however you want to phrase it. Having to defend yourself or your wife via jiu jutsu is reactionary. I would prefer to demonstrate to a child that I can take care of them physically before I'm actually defending people from him/her.

Kids need to fear certain things, in my opinion. Parents should definitely be two of them.

In the end, it's not about self defense. It's about teaching the child the way the world works. You fuck up = real, tangible, often immediate consequences. No amount of talking to or yelling at or grounding will drive the lesson home as effectively as a sharp pain in the backside, especially not for vocabularily challenged toddlers (which is when the lessons should start, I think).

[fatbuckRTO]

But how does hitting teach that hitting is bad? My kids NEVER raised a hand to me. And let me assure you that one of my daughter's went through a VERY pain in the ass teenage phase. Wanna know why? Because her father was a strict asshole who never took the time to speak to his children about what was going on with them. He just spanked them and grounded them without finding out if, for example, they were having a tough time with a certain class because it was a subject that was inherently difficult for them.

I guess that depends on the lesson you want to teach. In my opinion, hitting is not bad. Hitting certain people is bad. Parents, for starters. Hitting people who have done nothing to you is bad. But hitting to defend yourself or others is sometimes necessary and good. Raising a child to completely fear and misunderstand violence in a violent world is not a good idea, in my opinion.

Punishment of any kind can be damaging if the child doesn't realize what it's for, and especially if the parent doesn't even realize what it's for. If the offense is bad enough, a spanking immediately after the fact leaves little doubt. Bad grades are not a "bad enough" offense in my opinion, and require some effort on the part of the parent and the child to rectify.

As an example of what I consider a "spankable offense," my stepdaughter yelled at her mother about a year back. She immediately got a spanking. No yelling since then, and if she starts to get lippy a stern warning is enough.

At any rate, there is no equality or fairness between parent and child. Parents can and should do things that children cannot and should not. That's another lesson that needs to be learned early, I think. I'm not saying be a total hypocrite in front of your children, but there's a middle ground there between total hypocrite and grounding yourself if you let a curse word slip. Parents are the boss, period, and children should be made to understand that.

But did you ever think that one of the reasons your children never raised a hand to you is because they feared their father?

[2up]

At any rate, there is no equality or fairness between parent and child. Parents can and should do things that children cannot and should not. That's another lesson that needs to be learned early, I think. I'm not saying be a total hypocrite in front of your children, but there's a middle ground there between total hypocrite and grounding yourself if you let a curse word slip. Parents are the boss, period, and children should be made to understand that.

But did you ever think that one of the reasons your children never raised a hand to you is because they feared their father?

I agree that children are not the equal to their parents. While I don't agree with a full-on "do as I say, not as I do" atmosphere, I had no problem explaining to my kids that certain things in life are earned, certain things in life are age appropriate, etc. That's where openness and communication come into play. At the end of the day if they didn't like the explanations, too bad.

And, no, their actions towards me had nothing to do with their father. I left him when they were both under 3. Of course I should add that his other prefered menthod of handling his children was path of least resistance, when at all possible. Meaning, if what needed to be done to keep them on track required effort on his part, he let them get their way. Its kind of like the parent whose kid is throwing a tantrum (as in they don't want to go to bed and keep getting out of bed) and the parent gets lazy after awhile and doesn't make the child stay in bed.

I also think that spanking can be a symptom of lazy parenting. Not always of course, but, it is a lot easier to spank a kid then to actually talk to them and deal with what they've done.

[fatbuckRTO]

I also think that spanking can be a symptom of lazy parenting. Not always of course, but, it is a lot easier to spank a kid then to actually talk to them and deal with what they've done.No doubt. I figure most people's opinion as to whether spanking is acceptable or not is based largely on how they've seen it used. For my parents it was always a last resort for repeated offenses or a response to a severe violation of the rules. If they ever skipped straight to spanking I knew I fucked up big time.

[Mr Lefty]

No doubt. I figure most people's opinion as to whether spanking is acceptable or not is based largely on how they've seen it used. For my parents it was always a last resort for repeated offenses or a response to a severe violation of the rules. If they ever skipped straight to spanking I knew I fucked up big time.

same here. My parents hated spanking me... I could tell... but it was the only way to open my eyes to their point.


I'm fuck'n glad I was raised the way I was... they hurt like hell then... but I'm glad my parents beat my ass when I was out of line... especially now that I can look out and see the result of doing just the opposite.

[smileyman]

ahem* So there I was, acting out again during church, knowing that I was going to have to sit for at least another 30 minutes. Too young to remember exactly what ploy or trick finally broke Dad's patience but I remember the one arm carry thru the isle and out the door towards the car.

Knowing my ass was in a sling (cause dad's belt was fast and black) I started sweating the punishment I knew was coming. Then a miracle. Dad takes me to the passenger side of the car, opens the door, and tells me to lay across the seat. Perfect says I, knowing even then that dad was left handed. The angle of the open passenger door and the aforementioned left handedness meant that he would have a terrible swing or perhaps sacrifice power of the stroke by switching to the right hand!

Slap, slap, slap, the strokes across the top and back of my legs was excruciating and very instructive. I had no doubts that right or left handed justice was swift and that the consequences for misbehavior was NOT worth the crime. Never had to learn that lesson again:idk:

[azoomm]

I hope some of you will grow some patience before you have children.

I have never raised a hand to my children. And, I can assure you - they completely respect me and the other adults in their lives.

Hitting DOES equate violence. I don't care how you think you did it. It plants into their mind fear and the concept that conflicts should be resolved or dealt with in a physical manner. This was one thing I wanted to make sure my daughters learned without any sort of physical behavior.

Just because I don't spank my children it does not mean they do not have discipline. It is something that as a parent you need to figure out. What will get them to pay attention. Is it taking away a favorite toy? Or, is it building a household around them wanting to strive for posetive aspects?

Let's look at something more simple. Let's take training a dog. Do you hit your dog when they do something you don't want them to do? Or, do you get onto the floor with them and praise them or give them treats when they do something posetive?

It takes patience. It takes consistant behavior. It takes posetive reinforcement and swift action rather than reaction. Too much of what you are seeing around you with "kids today" isn't from lack of discipline. It's from parents not having the patience to actually raise children. It's threats that aren't followed through on and the want to be buddies. It's about thinking with your head rather than just going with what you know from when you were growing up. Just because it was good enough for you, that doesn't mean it is best for your children.

I won't ever strike my child - not in anger, not with the idea of teaching them something, certainly not just because I was when I was young.

[Rsv1000R]

I believe your children need to understand you're the parent at a young age, if they do, they won't raise a hand when they're older. Discipline is best severed when children are young, then in general the amount of physical punishment needed when they're older is minimal.

[njchopper87]

Whoa whoa.. I think there's still some leftover hatred in the air from that other thread of the parents beating the kid to death.

Spanking was ALWAYS a last resort for my parents. It was NEVER more than a punishment and they HATED doing it. Like OSP and several others said.. sometimes taking the toys, phones etc just don't add up. Sometimes you have to use the ace up the sleeve. I concur what several others said about appreciating it later on in my life. I never feared my parents, I feared the consequences. Of course I didn't like it, that's the point. Did I understand why it was happening? You betcha.

I'm basically repeating what everyone else said. But maybe it'll sink in that there's a fine line between discipline and abuse. If you can raise kids without spanking, more power to you. However, some need it. If you want to see what happens when you don't beat your kids just turn on MTV. Though most of those shows are a fraud, they depict the image perfectly.

Edit: Also, agreed on painting the lines to kids early.

Second Edit: I'm not saying every crime = spanking. I'm saying when kids REALLY fuck up. For example, I gave my parents the scare of their life when I went around the block on my bike and never returned. Why was I late? Me and several other kids were playing in the gully where we were explicitly told not to. We knew we were in trouble when all of our parents rounded the corner. Bare in mind there were 4 or 5 of us, so you can picture the crowd of parents.

[fatbuckRTO]

I won't ever strike my child - not in anger, not with the idea of teaching them something, certainly not just because I was when I was young.There's a difference between doing something "just because it was done to me" and doing something because "it was done to me and I like the way it worked." From the tone of most of the posts in this thread, the majority of people here who endorse spanking do so for the latter reason.

[azoomm]

There's a difference between doing something "just because it was done to me" and doing something because "it was done to me and I like the way it worked." From the tone of most of the posts in this thread, the majority of people here who endorse spanking do so for the latter reason.

No, the majority don't do it at all because they aren't parents. AND, they would do it because it was done to them and they think it worked.

They know no other method. :wink: Or, they think any other method is a hug and a cookie...

[fatbuckRTO]

AND, they would do it because it was done to them and they think it worked.
"Think it worked?" Or, they think any other method is a hug and a cookie...Given the choice between results I've witnessed first hand and "somebody told me this works great," I'll go with the first hand results any day of the week.

[Particle Man]

I never actually got my ass beat as a kid.. but I knew my parents were serious about going through with a hide tanning if I did something that was seriously out of line. I respected them for that and was pretty well behaved...

[Cutty72]

No, the majority don't do it at all because they aren't parents. AND, they would do it because it was done to them and they think it worked.

They know no other method. :wink: Or, they think any other method is a hug and a cookie...

I'm not a parent. It was done to me, twice to be exact, and damn straight it worked.

And I know it works a hell of a lot better than trying a "time out" when the 6 y/o is running around the restraunt yelling and screaming... :panic:

And many times, the mere threat of "going outside" is enough for a kid to sit down and shut up.

[itgirl]

as a child my dad was always beat with a belt, hand or anything near to him and he was also punished by his mother by placing red pepper on his tongue and making him sit there with it on and tears streaming down his face. it didn't teach him anything, all it did was make him and his mother estranged. as soon as he turned 18 he left for 2 tours of vietnam in the army. when he returned he married my mom and had me and my sister. by the time i was 5 years old my dad was breaking our toys, busting pillows over my head and shooting the windows out of our home with a .45. my mom had him committed. he was released after a few months (or more, i was young) and had completely changed. he never so much as raised his voice thereafter towards any of us up until his death 8 years ago.

was it the beatings from his mom that created his hair-trigger and explosive temper? was it PTSD from vietnam? probably both. either way, i will never...NEVER...condone spanking or any form of physical discipline in my household. i have seen what could happen in the worst case scenario. but that is just how i choose to parent. feel free to judge me accordingly.

[fatbuckRTO]

Just be sure to vote in my incredibly precise scientific poll (http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?t=5691).

[derf]

A little spanking is always warrented. My parents spanked me as little kid, and I spank my kids when its warrented. Usually a good tap on the backside will teach them a quick lesson that something they did was wrong.

The only time I think I ever went overboard was when I cought my daughter trying put her brother in a hot oven. I went to the bathroom, and she unlocked the kitchen gate and lead him in. Luckily she wasn't strong enough to lift him and he was fidgeting or she might have cooked him. I let loose on her ass while I was carrying her out of the kitchen. But to this day she won't play with the stove or try to cook her brother.

[racedoll]

I don't agree with Abby either. That is exactly what is wrong with all these kids now - they are no disciplined enough and therefore have zero respect for anyone... including themselves.

[OneSickPsycho]

I hope some of you will grow some patience before you have children.

I have never raised a hand to my children. And, I can assure you - they completely respect me and the other adults in their lives.

Hitting DOES equate violence. I don't care how you think you did it. It plants into their mind fear and the concept that conflicts should be resolved or dealt with in a physical manner. This was one thing I wanted to make sure my daughters learned without any sort of physical behavior.

Just because I don't spank my children it does not mean they do not have discipline. It is something that as a parent you need to figure out. What will get them to pay attention. Is it taking away a favorite toy? Or, is it building a household around them wanting to strive for posetive aspects?

Let's look at something more simple. Let's take training a dog. Do you hit your dog when they do something you don't want them to do? Or, do you get onto the floor with them and praise them or give them treats when they do something posetive?

It takes patience. It takes consistant behavior. It takes posetive reinforcement and swift action rather than reaction. Too much of what you are seeing around you with "kids today" isn't from lack of discipline. It's from parents not having the patience to actually raise children. It's threats that aren't followed through on and the want to be buddies. It's about thinking with your head rather than just going with what you know from when you were growing up. Just because it was good enough for you, that doesn't mean it is best for your children.

I won't ever strike my child - not in anger, not with the idea of teaching them something, certainly not just because I was when I was young.

Honestly... Lil' OSP would have eaten you alive... I've never been one to seek praise, probably just my narcissism... Still that way now, in fact... I thoroughly dislike praise...

Grounding, time out, long talks, etc, etc... never worked. An ass whoopin' was the only thing that EVER had any impact. For the record, all that shit worked with my sister and she never was spanked... ever. Me on the other hand... No choice.

Sorry, all kids are different and for some the only thing that works is physical punishment.

[101lifts2]

Hmmm...

My mom used to spank me with a ping pong paddle.

One day I had enough of that, grabbed it, started hitting her back with it.

hahahahaha

Well u never learned did you!

[azoomm]

Honestly... Lil' OSP would have eaten you alive....

Doubtful.

[Archren]

Honestly... Lil' OSP would have eaten you alive...

You haven't met Moira. :lol: Woman doesn't need to spank anyone to intimidate the hell out of 'em. 5'10" amazon woman frame helps..

[OneSickPsycho]

You haven't met Moira. :lol: Woman doesn't need to spank anyone to intimidate the hell out of 'em. 5'10" amazon woman frame helps..

OSP is not easily intimidated... Never has been. Especially if he knows there's not shit that the 'intimidator' is going to do...

[azoomm]

OSP is not easily intimidated... Never has been. Especially if he knows there's not shit that the 'intimidator' is going to do...

Intimidation really isn't all of it. I mean, I deal with - and have dealt with some incredibly difficult kids [and adults :lol:]. I'd rather deal with the difficult cases long before the "normal" ones.

It's all about knowing what gets them to pay attention.

I know I mentioned it in an earlier post. But, no one has gone there. Raising kids isn't that different than training animals. Would you hit a cat if it didn't do what you expected? What would happen, other than it running scared from you or it acting out MORE? Think about that - now, think about doing something different with a child. Most children can be reasoned with to an extent, AT THEIR LEVEL.

I'm NOT saying pleading with them. I'm not saying you DEAL with them. I'm saying... they WILL respect what you do and want without you ever raising a hand to them.

[pauldun170]

I hope some of you will grow some patience before you have children.

I have never raised a hand to my children. And, I can assure you - they completely respect me and the other adults in their lives.

Hitting DOES equate violence. I don't care how you think you did it. It plants into their mind fear and the concept that conflicts should be resolved or dealt with in a physical manner. This was one thing I wanted to make sure my daughters learned without any sort of physical behavior.

Just because I don't spank my children it does not mean they do not have discipline. It is something that as a parent you need to figure out. What will get them to pay attention. Is it taking away a favorite toy? Or, is it building a household around them wanting to strive for posetive aspects?

Let's look at something more simple. Let's take training a dog. Do you hit your dog when they do something you don't want them to do? Or, do you get onto the floor with them and praise them or give them treats when they do something posetive?

It takes patience. It takes consistant behavior. It takes posetive reinforcement and swift action rather than reaction. Too much of what you are seeing around you with "kids today" isn't from lack of discipline. It's from parents not having the patience to actually raise children. It's threats that aren't followed through on and the want to be buddies. It's about thinking with your head rather than just going with what you know from when you were growing up. Just because it was good enough for you, that doesn't mean it is best for your children.

I won't ever strike my child - not in anger, not with the idea of teaching them something, certainly not just because I was when I was young.
:dthumb:

[fatbuckRTO]

I know I mentioned it in an earlier post. But, no one has gone there. Raising kids isn't that different than training animals. Would you hit a cat if it didn't do what you expected? What would happen, other than it running scared from you or it acting out MORE?
Saw it, but was purposefully ignoring it because there are at least as many different methods for training dogs (your original example) as there are for raising kids, and it will make for a whole other thread. If you can train your cat to behave how you want it to even the majority of the time, more power to you, but comparing cats and dogs is like comparing cats and dogs.

At any rate, my brother-in-law spanks his dogs when they get too far out of line. He rarely has to do it anymore now that they are trained. They are two of the most well behaved and friendliest dogs you'll ever meet, and they are not afraid of him or any other people. He had two other dogs when I first met him, who have since died of natural causes, who were the same. I have personally used spankings for my dogs on rare occasions. It's tougher to associate the act with the punishment for dogs than it is for children, in my opinion. For the record, we both also praise good behavior.

The simple fact that shock collars, invisible fences, and bark collars succeed on the market says to me that dogs respond to negative reinforcement as well as positive. But the idea that, if you dole out the negative reinforcement personally it somehow negates the training, is just bogus in my experience.

Professionals do the same. Find a Marine War Dog or MP K-9 unit and ask them how they train their puppies. And before anyone says it, no those dogs are not ticking time bombs. They are better trained and more well behaved than most people's dogs. They are animals, like any dogs, and shit happens where animals are concerned, but most become loyal pets when they are retired (if they are adopted). More than likely safer than the lab next door because of the discipline.

[Papa_Complex]

OSP is not easily intimidated... Never has been. Especially if he knows there's not shit that the 'intimidator' is going to do...

OSP needs to stop talking about himself in third person, or the powers that be may throw OSP in a nicely upholstered room for a few years, for fear that he's a ticking time bomb :lol:

[Mr Lefty]

OSP needs to stop talking about himself in third person, or the powers that be may throw OSP in a nicely upholstered room for a few years, for fear that he's a ticking time bomb :lol:

talking in the third person is one of the sanest (if that's a word) things OSP does. :lol:

[Papa_Complex]

talking in the third person is one of the sanest (if that's a word) things OSP does. :lol:

So just how hard is it to type in a strait-jacket, I wonder?

[z06boy]

Comparing raising and diciplining children to training dogs and cats makes me laugh.

A pet doesn't go to school or play with others and hear stories about what happened in another household or have the same peer pressure that kids do.

Occasionally spanking or popping a child on the butt does not equal abuse nor does it mean the kid is going to grow up to be violent.

If you don't believe in spanking and 'not spanking' works for you and your child that's great but each kid is different and each household is different. Occasional spanking works for others.

My father spanked the 4 of us at times but it was few and far between but enough to get our attention. I didn't fear my father...he was and still is a great family loving man. I only "feared" facing him when I knew I had done something worthy of getting a spanking.

Spanking does not equal BEATING !! Abuse is abuse...mental and physical and that's totally different.

[MikeSP1]

Some of the stupid shit that I did as a kid could not be reasoned with. Some lessons I learned quickly. One such lesson was to not touch the stove, that SOB was hot and it hurt. I never did that again.

One thing that took some doing was learning the meaning of respect. It was a difficult lesson for me, because it was a concept and not something tangible. I finally truly and fully understood the meaning of respect when it was put in comparison to disrespect. I learned to respect people, things, animals, etc because I learned that disrespect was not to be tolerated. Disrespect was both intolerable and inexcusable. I made this mistake one time that I can really remember. I talked back to someone, my father asked me to repeat myself (I found out later that it was to make sure he had heard me correctly), I repeated what I had said, then I was immediately taught that what I had done was out of line. I never did it again.

I don't care who you are, but I know that I would not have learned this lesson any other way until much later. Some people learn the easy way. But I learned the hard way more often than not. But the lessons that I learned the hard way, I have never forgotten. I do not fear my father, never have, but I did fear the consequences of my actions and I was taught at a young age that every spanking I received was a result of something that I had done wrong. I deserved every single spanking I ever received.

[azoomm]

Comparing raising and diciplining children to training dogs and cats makes me laugh.

At the core of their aspects, they aren't that different. I've seen people treat their animals as though they were precious - yet treat their children like crap. :idk:

This is one of those discussions that is best left in person.

[z06boy]

This is one of those discussions that is best left in person.

Agreed

[Lucky3623]

My mom slapped me one time when I was about 14, and I saw it coming and could have caught her hand. I didn't because I knew exactly what would have happened to me if I did.



I did that 1 time... and lived to tell about it...

My parents would beat the living piss out of me... but I, as a little shit head, I deserved every bit of it. They didn't just beat me unmercifully, but when a spanking was needed... I got it.

I am an advocate of spanking. Pain is a good teacher. A friend of mine, back when we were little (around 5 or 6) stole a pack of gum from the store and got caught. His mom grounded him for 3 days. After he was ungrounded, a week later, he stole another pack of gum from the same store. My mother told me that if she ever caught me stealing ANYTHING, she would beat me until I was unable to sit down. I have never stolen a pack of gum... I am the youngest of 5, and we have all been spanked.