"American cars have horrible quality!!"

[pauldun170]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/03/ford-global-warranty-costs-slashed-by-1-2b-over-last-two-years/

[Destitute]

Because their vehicles actually have fewer problems, or just because Ford refused to pay to fix them?

[Papa_Complex]

Because their vehicles actually have fewer problems, or just because Ford refused to pay to fix them?

An excellent question by someone who apparently understands statistics. The real question would be if the number of warranty requests had gone down.

[101lifts2]

Because their vehicles actually have fewer problems, or just because Ford refused to pay to fix them?

You would be surprised on how much GM/Ford and Chyrsler shell out for warranty repairs that should not be actual warranty (customer abuse or neglect). Ford is def. tackling quality issues, but I'm sure that they are now scrutinizing what is being covered and what should not.

The Japanese always have done this because their distributor bonuses are dependant on how much warranty dollars per vehicle they save. The Japanese motorcycling industry is a prime example of this (everything gets denied first unless its an obvious) as most have seen here with dealing with dealers. I think this has alot to do with why Japanese automakers tend to have lower warranty costs instead of just paying for anything that happens in the field.

[BobTheBiker]

You would be surprised on how much GM/Ford and Chyrsler shell out for warranty repairs that should not be actual warranty (customer abuse or neglect). Ford is def. tackling quality issues, but I'm sure that they are now scrutinizing what is being covered and what should not.

The Japanese always have done this because their distributor bonuses are dependant on how much warranty dollars per vehicle they save. The Japanese motorcycling industry is a prime example of this (everything gets denied first unless its an obvious) as most have seen here with dealing with dealers. I think this has alot to do with why Japanese automakers tend to have lower warranty costs instead of just paying for anything that happens in the field.

I wouldnt be surprised honestly. I would honestly like to see how many warranty repairs are being made by each company this year vs the previous year or the year before and a breakdown of that number into what kind of repairs are made. Thats simply the curiousity in me speaking, my analytical side that studies this sort of thing could care less really.

[Homeslice]

You would be surprised on how much GM/Ford and Chyrsler shell out for warranty repairs that should not be actual warranty (customer abuse or neglect). Ford is def. tackling quality issues, but I'm sure that they are now scrutinizing what is being covered and what should not.
.

A lot of this is not due to customer fraud, but because vehicles breaking down only a few miles after warranty and the manuf decides to cover it out of goodwill or because they want to shut that person up. Ford gave me an AWA (after warranty adjustment) for the ignitor in my distributor that burnt out, because it was only a few thou outside the warranty. Well that and the fact that I was an ex-employee and still knew people :lol:

[Quick281]

Well being that these reports are some a source such as Consumer reports, can't we justify that these are being reported as repairs never needed versus repairs they had to pay out of pocket for? I would these kinds of things would be highly visible if people were being turned away instead of quality controls improving.

[bmblebee]

You would be surprised on how much GM/Ford and Chyrsler shell out for warranty repairs that should not be actual warranty (customer abuse or neglect). Ford is def. tackling quality issues, but I'm sure that they are now scrutinizing what is being covered and what should not.

The Japanese always have done this because their distributor bonuses are dependant on how much warranty dollars per vehicle they save. The Japanese motorcycling industry is a prime example of this (everything gets denied first unless its an obvious) as most have seen here with dealing with dealers. I think this has alot to do with why Japanese automakers tend to have lower warranty costs instead of just paying for anything that happens in the field.


When the CCT went out on my F4i while the bike was still under warranty, at first, they refused to fix it under warranty. After some arguing, they said they would fix it, but it would take 30 days because they had to take the engine apart. :bs: :wtf: They were trying to avoid the repair

After I got loud enough at the service desk to draw the attention of the General Manager, He and I got into a "discussion" about the repair until I pointed to the lifter and ridiculed him for the Service Manager saying the engine had to come apart and reminded him of the common knowledge in the industry of the CCT lifter failures on Honda 600's, his attitude changed.

If they think you don't know anything about motorcycles, they will rip you

After they fixed it twice in 6 months with 10K on the bike, I installed a manual APE, and have made 1 adjustment over the next 28K miles

[Papa_Complex]

When the CCT went out on my F4i while the bike was still under warranty, at first, they refused to fix it under warranty. After some arguing, they said they would fix it, but it would take 30 days because they had to take the engine apart. :bs: :wtf: They were trying to avoid the repair

After I got loud enough at the service desk to draw the attention of the General Manager, He and I got into a discussion about the repair until I pointed to the lifter and ridiculed him for the Service Manager saying the engine had to come apart and reminded him of the common knowledge in the industry of the CCT lifter failures on Honda 600's, his attitude changed.

If they think you don't know anything about motorcycles, they will rip you

After they fixed it twice in 6 months with 10K on the bike, I installed a manual APE, and have made 1 adjustment over the next 28K miles

I've always questioned the CCT issues in bikes. If you believe the internet then every Japanese manufacturer seems to have the issue, and yet the only 'failures' I ever hear about are noisy CCTs. I haven't heard (locally at least) of any actually jumping or cauing additional failures.

You would be surprised on how much GM/Ford and Chyrsler shell out for warranty repairs that should not be actual warranty (customer abuse or neglect). Ford is def. tackling quality issues, but I'm sure that they are now scrutinizing what is being covered and what should not.

The Japanese always have done this because their distributor bonuses are dependant on how much warranty dollars per vehicle they save. The Japanese motorcycling industry is a prime example of this (everything gets denied first unless its an obvious) as most have seen here with dealing with dealers. I think this has alot to do with why Japanese automakers tend to have lower warranty costs instead of just paying for anything that happens in the field.

And yet the warping/corrosion problems that I had with my Dodge's brakes were something I had to pay for myself, though the vehicle was under warranty, when my Camry's disks were replaced under warranty for exactly the same thing.

[marko138]

My Jeep GC went in for warranty work twice in the first year I owned it. (It was already 3 years old and had 25k miles on it.) But the Jeep dealer fixed both issues no problem.

[bmblebee]

I've always questioned the CCT issues in bikes. If you believe the internet then every Japanese manufacturer seems to have the issue, and yet the only 'failures' I ever hear about are noisy CCTs. I haven't heard (locally at least) of any actually jumping or cauing additional failures.



And yet the warping/corrosion problems that I had with my Dodge's brakes were something I had to pay for myself, though the vehicle was under warranty, when my Camry's disks were replaced under warranty for exactly the same thing.

I have never seen a warranty that would cover tires, brakes or clutches unless a recall is announced. Getting your Camry repaired was prolly the dealer giving great customer service

[101lifts2]

A lot of this is not due to customer fraud, but because vehicles breaking down only a few miles after warranty and the manuf decides to cover it out of goodwill or because they want to shut that person up. Ford gave me an AWA (after warranty adjustment) for the ignitor in my distributor that burnt out, because it was only a few thou outside the warranty. Well that and the fact that I was an ex-employee and still knew people :lol:

Agreed, but the Japanese usually won't cover it because when the distributor bills it back to Japan they reject paying it.

[101lifts2]

...
And yet the warping/corrosion problems that I had with my Dodge's brakes were something I had to pay for myself, though the vehicle was under warranty, when my Camry's disks were replaced under warranty for exactly the same thing.

You bring up a good point, but its a specific item. Brakes. Very few OEMs will pay for brakes unless its under 6 months old or if the vehicle is a premium unit such as a Cadillac or BMW and is under 12 months old. I have yet to find a manufacturer who can make brakes that don't warp rotors...and I wrenched for a Mazda dealer. I guess you have to buy a Porsche to get good brakes.

[101lifts2]

I have never seen a warranty that would cover tires, brakes or clutches unless a recall is announced. Getting your Camry repaired was prolly the dealer giving great customer service

It has to be rep approved, but they prolly just cut the rotors and told him they put new rotors on. LOL

[pauldun170]

You bring up a good point, but its a specific item. Brakes. Very few OEMs will pay for brakes unless its under 6 months old or if the vehicle is a premium unit such as a Cadillac or BMW and is under 12 months old. I have yet to find a manufacturer who can make brakes that doesn't warp rotors...and I wrenched for a Mazda dealer. I guess you have to buy a Porsche to get good brakes.


Funny thing in, the original brake rotors on my 95 Ford Probe lasted until I got rid of it a few months ago.

I've never had issues with warped rotors on the Mazda MX6 i had before that

[Homeslice]

It has to be rep approved, but they prolly just cut the rotors and told him they put new rotors on. LOL

:lol:

[101lifts2]

Funny thing in, the original brake rotors on my 95 Ford Probe lasted until I got rid of it a few months ago.

I've never had issues with warped rotors on the Mazda MX6 i had before that

You drive manuals (I'm guessing) and prolly use engine braking alot.

Mazda brakes warped..in fact when I used to inspect used cars, most OEMs have brake rotor issues.

[Rsv1000R]

The rotors don't warp, they corrode and pit. Because of that the surface swells up, and you get pulsing, just like they're warped. The reason your probe brakes didn't do this, is they are made of metal with more chrome in it, and that costs money. So we get cheap cast iron, that rots. And I've noticed that mine pit on the side that the pistons are on, I presume because there's metal in the pads, there's some galvanic action going on as well.

Also lifts, because of your weather, rotors in that part of the country don't do this.

[Papa_Complex]

You bring up a good point, but its a specific item. Brakes. Very few OEMs will pay for brakes unless its under 6 months old or if the vehicle is a premium unit such as a Cadillac or BMW and is under 12 months old. I have yet to find a manufacturer who can make brakes that don't warp rotors...and I wrenched for a Mazda dealer. I guess you have to buy a Porsche to get good brakes.

Perhaps things are different in Canada where Toyota is concerned, but I doubt it. My rotors were actually replaced twice on my Camry; once a little over a year after I bought it when they were warped, then more than 2 years after it was purchased when they were both warped and corroded. Corrosion typically isn't covered, but they considered the warping to be the primary issue and their responsibility.

[101lifts2]

The rotors don't warp, they corrode and pit. Because of that the surface swells up, and you get pulsing, just like they're warped. The reason your probe brakes didn't do this, is they are made of metal with more chrome in it, and that costs money. So we get cheap cast iron, that rots. And I've noticed that mine pit on the side that the pistons are on, I presume because there's metal in the pads, there's some galvanic action going on as well.

Also lifts, because of your weather, rotors in that part of the country don't do this.

Rotors do warp combined with cheap metal and excessive heat. I had a number of vehicles in CA that the rotors looked new and still warped.

[Rsv1000R]

Rotors do warp combined with cheap metal and excessive heat. I had a number of vehicles in CA that the rotors looked new and still warped.

Maybe some do, but in this part of the country the brakes on my truck last the summer before they start to pulsate(from rust).

And my friend who has a late model stock car uses standard auto parts full sized chevy rotor (cause that's the rules), they glow red in corners, and last a season, when they're worn out.

[Destitute]

The real question would be if the number of warranty requests had gone down.

Normalized on a per-vehicle basis.

[Papa_Complex]

Normalized on a per-vehicle basis.

Which means precisely...... what?

[Destitute]

Which means precisely...... what?

For example, 1 warranty request per 100 vehicles, or $100 in warranty cost per vehicle, etc.

If Ford sold half as many cars, and said their warranty claims on new cars decreased by 25%, that doesn't mean their quality is improving since the rate of warranty claims/vehicle is increasing.

[Papa_Complex]

For example, 1 warranty request per 100 vehicles, or $100 in warranty cost per vehicle, etc.

If Ford sold half as many cars, and said their warranty claims on new cars decreased by 25%, that doesn't mean their quality is improving since the rate of warranty claims/vehicle is increasing.

Gotcha. Sometimes a post requires more than a sentence to explain something, ya know ;)

[101lifts2]

For example, 1 warranty request per 100 vehicles, or $100 in warranty cost per vehicle, etc.

If Ford sold half as many cars, and said their warranty claims on new cars decreased by 25%, that doesn't mean their quality is improving since the rate of warranty claims/vehicle is increasing.

Warranty is measured in cost per unit, so it doesn't really matter other than the more vehicles in the populace usually means lower cost per unit.