Track Star vs Field Hero

[Trip]

Let's try to leave our bias for moto related sports out of this and have a real discussion. We all know being conditioned and training helps and that it is pretty much required to be in the top tier, but do you think a pro level motorcycle rider needs to be as physically conditioned as a true human sport where physical athletism is a must to reach the level of star. Where you take the best in the sport Rossi, Hayden, Stoner and compare them against the very best in other sports like soccer, basketball, football, swimming... What do you think?

[the chi]

I'm slow today, can you give a more defined view of what each is? Track star and Field hero?

[Rider]

Aside from marathon runners, track athletes perform for a very short duration.
field athletes have to be in better condition to perform for longer periods of time and they are more often than not physically stronger than than track athletes.

[shmike]

Let's try to leave our bias for moto related sports out of this and have a real discussion. We all know being conditioned and training helps and that it is pretty much required to be in the top tier, but do you think a pro level motorcycle rider needs to be as physically conditioned as a true human sport where physical athletism is a must to reach the level of star. Where you take the best in the sport Rossi, Hayden, Stoner and compare them against the very best in other sports like soccer, basketball, football, swimming... What do you think?

Today's racers are more conditioned than ever.

That said:
To compare the fitness level or conditioning required to play a 90 minute soccer game, 5 set tennis match, 400M swim, etc to the requirements for a successful roadracer is silly.

[AquaPython]

choices are unclear, but there is really no comparison.

[the chi]

Ah, thank you Rider, that makes it easier for me. I'm going with Field on this one. More stamina and endurance to keep on keeping on at max levels...

[Trip]

It's just an open ended discussion, not really anything serious and try to narrow down to one particular athlete over another. Just to give you examples to help you out, but I am not trying to narrow it to just this, it can be at any level vs any level. Also, don't focus on one particular person, just what it takes physically to be able to be competitive. Sure some gp riders are physically fit, but do they have to be type thing.

Moto GP Champions vs Super Bowl MVPs vs Soccer World Cup MVPs vs etc..

[smileyman]

:panic:Lets do this pound per pound shall we.

Cardiovascular is extremely important as each racers heartrate increase to 140 beat plus for an extended period of time, lots of air consumed, lots of bike trainign for these fly weights. Strength in wrestling a hurtling 350+ pound beast into and out of corners while holding their miniscule weight in the saddle. Whatta think they weigh 115-130 lbs?

Then you look at an NFL lineman. Huge 6.5, 290 lbers throwing other huge 6.5 ft 290 lbers around with 30 second breaks in between. Sprinting 15 20 yards at a time. Hell even getting up after a play is a feat of strength.

NBA? same huge mammoths moving their feet faster than teh solid gold dancers on crack, not only covering the length of the court but also 10-12 feet vertically.

Lets not bring the baseball/steriods thing into it. I know those guys bat, throw, and run hard. Just don't think they have to be quite in the shape as the others as they have long periods of inactivity while playing the game.

Can we consider car racers? Sure but they aren't going to sell me on the physical strength part. Concentration and resistance to high Gs aside. They have to have the heart rate going on but really the wheel and the pedals don't give alot of resistance...

Boxers? Damn are they even human?:idk:

Taters Whore of an Ex wife? I don't even think she breaks a sweat:whistle:

[Mr Lefty]

yeah not really a comparision imo... not that racers aren't phenominal athletes... but michael phelps, lance armstrong, urasan bolt, or any soccer player are more physically athletic. IMO...

take the average track star and average field hero... field hero is in better shape I'd guess...

[Cutty72]

IMO
A true "athlete" (basketball football track etc) will probalby be in better physical shape.

A "field hero" (motorcycle racer etc) will be in better mental condition.

[OreoGaborio]

I used to run track & field where I did the 4x400, high-jump & pole vault, I've played soccer, baseball, basketball, I've skiid, snowboarded a few times, I've tried mountain climing, mountain hiking, etc etc etc..... Each of those activities requires a different aspect & level of fitness....


But how many here have tried to ride at or near 100% of your ability for roughly 40 minutes like the MotoGP guys do?

Me personally, the longest motorcycle race that I compete in is a 20 minute GP... and before I learned that it wasn't a sprint & I needed to pace myself, I was BEGGING for the white flag by the 15th minute.

Of course that's at Loudon, NH, one of the most notoriously technical & exhausting full size road courses in the States... There's hardly ANYWHERE to rest besides the front straight which is only about 1/2 a mile long.... but my point still applies... On some tracks it's extremely taxing to ride a motorcycle at that level for that length of time.



But to answer the question: I think it's about the same. All sports require top level conditioning to achieve top level performance.

Good question :)




EDIT: Oh, by the way... http://www.spearsenterprises.com/riders.html#rick
The Loudon Road Racing Series is one of the most competitive club racing scenes in the states and as you can see from that link, Rick Doucette wins multiple championships almost every year.... And he's as FAT as a motorcycle racer gets! :lol: But as INCREDIBLY talented as he is, put him up against a guy with equal skill but who's in better shape.... No question who I'd put my money on.

[Mr Lefty]

IMO
A true "athlete" (basketball football track etc) will probalby be in better physical shape.

A "field hero" (motorcycle racer etc) will be in better mental condition.

you mean Track Star :lol:

and I agree... they'd be much sharper mentally I'd think... reaction time and what not

[Cutty72]

you mean Track Star :lol:

and I agree... they'd be much sharper mentally I'd think... reaction time and what not

:idk: eh i got confused on what trip was talking about. :lol:

[Mr Lefty]

:idk: eh i got confused on what trip was talking about. :lol:

easy to do... trip himself does it often

[Cutty72]

easy to do... trip himself does it often

I was all about taters whore anyway.

[Trip]

easy to do... trip himself does it often

suck it trebek

[JoJoYZF]

I used to run track & field where I did the 4x400, high-jump & pole vault, I've played soccer, baseball, basketball, I've skiid, snowboarded a few times, I've tried mountain climing, mountain hiking, etc etc etc..... Each of those activities requires a different aspect & level of fitness....


But how many here have tried to ride at or near 100% of your ability for roughly 40 minutes like the MotoGP guys do?

Me personally, the longest motorcycle race that I compete in is a 20 minute GP... and before I learned that it wasn't a sprint & I needed to pace myself, I was BEGGING for the white flag by the 15th minute.

Of course that's at Loudon, NH, one of the most notoriously technical & exhausting full size road courses in the States... There's hardly ANYWHERE to rest besides the front straight which is only about 1/2 a mile long.... but my point still applies... On some tracks it's extremely taxing to ride a motorcycle at that level for that length of time.



But to answer the question: I think it's about the same. All sports require top level conditioning to achieve top level performance.

Good question :)



Good point. I was a distance runner in track, ran cross country and played basketball in a city league. All sports require something different. Conditioning wise there is no doubt that I was in better shape than a lot of people, but it was mainly slow twitch muscles and a ton of stamina. Football players for example use tons of reps of much faster movements. It just depends on what part of being in shape youre looking at. I used to be able to run 12 miles continuously when I was in CC, but could only bench about 140. These days Im stronger but have nowhere near the conditioning I used to since I just lift and do light cardio instead of focusing on cardio and doing a little lifting.

suck it trebek

:lol:

Knock knock
Whos there?
I dont know but your mothers a whore

[Mr Lefty]

suck it trebek

I'll take the rapist for $500 alex

[JoJoYZF]

I'll take the rapist for $500 alex

Or the penis mightier for $800.

[the chi]

My thoughts were in line with Oreo's...the taxing effects of riding hard require good physical conditioning. Im no expert, but I know when Ive been rested and fit I can last a helluva lot longer than when I am out of shape. For me its a whole day versus just a few sessions worth of a track day. I would think the racers would have to be conditioned and fit mentally and physically to really perform but its an endurance test, not a sprint down a field...

[smileyman]

Like I said before the level of concentration a racer has for such a long period has to be phenomenal. I too have done the 20 minute GP and run 4-5-6-and 8 hour endurances where I got up to about an hour 20 stint. To be sharp, precise, and smooth that long takes everything you have.

A NFL player can breathe 30 seconds at a time before going back to 100% concentration. NBA stars get free throws and time outs, Soccer has enough players on field that not all are involved with every play despite being on the move.

But yeah put a Palamalu or Erlacher up against Gordon, Martin, Stoner, Hayden, Rossi and I think we know who will be able to run longer, hit harder, lift more...

[Trip]

Like I said before the level of concentration a racer has for such a long period has to be phenomenal. I too have done the 20 minute GP and run 4-5-6-and 8 hour endurances where I got up to about an hour 20 stint. To be sharp, precise, and smooth that long takes everything you have.

A NFL player can breathe 30 seconds at a time before going back to 100% concentration. NBA stars get free throws and time outs, Soccer has enough players on field that not all are involved with every play despite being on the move.

But yeah put a Palamalu or Erlacher up against Gordon, Martin, Stoner, Hayden, Rossi and I think we know who will be able to run longer, hit harder, lift more...

mental training is far different than physical training, didn't want to really add this to part of the question, more directed to the physical side of things. The amount of concentration of a racer is not of much importance to me, because at that stage in a career a lot it is second nature going through the motions. The mental concentration of a noob riding on the track for the first time and the stress on their brain would probably be at the same level if not more. Think of your first time getting on the interstate and cranking that throttle back, that speed feels completely different now. The level of mental stamina for any racing sport would be along the same lines as motogp level, even such sports as NASCAR especially on tracks like Daytona and Talladega where they are constantly running inches from each other for several hundred miles. You become desensitized to it. Real mental tests come from new and unexpected things.

[pickle.of.doom]

The physical toll riding at your limit takes on you can be huge too. Ever do an LED track day? Try staying out there for an hour! Even after your 15/20 minute session at a regularly run track day you get pretty worn out.

[smileyman]

I see your logic Trip. Although I do think the mental focus shifts with experience. Newbs are worried about braking points and which way the track goes next, MotoGP level riders are either diagnosing handling issues and thinking set up in testing or constantly coaxing that last hundredth of a second out of the package while plotting a pass/repass strategy. It is pretty busy either way, so the mental load while different is no less loaded...

[fasternyou929]

The physical toll riding at your limit takes on you can be huge too. Ever do an LED track day? Try staying out there for an hour! Even after your 15/20 minute session at a regularly run track day you get pretty worn out.

I wonder how much that changes when you reach the level of WSBK/MotoGP though. The reason most of us regular track day riders get tired, IMO, is because of nerves. That takes a huge physical and mental toll.

In other words, I wonder how tired a pro racer would be after racing 40 minutes compared to a track day rider riding at their own limits for 40 minutes. :idk:

[deals gap dragon slayer]

It depends on the level of intensity applied...

I played soccer for YEARS... and I was always riding/racing too... Now days though... I admit... If its hot out, I get absolutely worn out from playtime in racer practice at the track. Its more of an endurance thing i think. Doesnt mean one is necissarily more fit than the other, just more conditioned for the particular circumstances.

[The Awesome]

To be a top athlete in any sport requires maximum fitness. The type of fitness varies from sport to sport, but at that level the competitors are doing anything possible to gain an advantage. If they won't train as hard as they can, someone else will, and it will show in the results. Your poll says "more fit" which I don't agree with, but "as fit" I say yes, in their own way.

[OreoGaborio]

The physical toll riding at your limit takes on you can be huge too. Ever do an LED track day? Try staying out there for an hour! Even after your 15/20 minute session at a regularly run track day you get pretty worn out.
I DEFINITELY wasn't going all out (especially in the beginner & intermediate groups) but I remember one track day where we were a little light on control riders & instructors so I was doing 3 or 4 sessions in a row, only sitting out maybe or two session every two hours. Out of 21 on-track sessions I did probably 15 of them. It was soooo much fun :rockwoot:

I'd say I was only riding 75% for most of the day, but it was a blast.

[smileyman]

I remember endurance racing on Saturdays and sprinting the next day. My endurance times were typically 2-3 seconds slower per lap as I started out at a pace, didn't force my way through traffic, and then they would drop a second or two as I wore out over the course of a 45min or 1 hour stint.

The next day running 8 lap sprints i could run my lap times within a couple tenths, 8 in a row and usually faster than my practice times from the familiarity with the track.

Saturdays 2'04" to 2'07"s usually became Sundays 2'01" and 2'02"s with less effort but more concentration.:idk:

[Trip]

mental toll.

In other words, I wonder how tired a pro racer would be after racing 40 minutes compared to a track day rider riding at their own limits for 40 minutes. :idk:

Mental toll is huge in a lot of things in life, if I have an issue come up at work that is very very complicated and taxing to me, the mental stress from it will make me feel like I have been run over like a dump truck and I haven't really lifted a finger all day in the way of physical work. I am sure we have all had days like this at work or just home with the family when they are driving you freakin bonkers, that's why I have tried to leave that out of this discussion.

I don't think there would be a difference. Take for example running a 100m dash. If you lined up a fat guy and a gold medal athlete and told them to go 100%, they are both going to put incredible physical stresses on their body, the athlete will recover faster and obiviously whip the fuck hell out of the fat guy, because of his conditioning though. As a gp rider would be ready to go again a lot faster and be done a lot sooner than a track day novice.

This is where is it required to be in supreme physical condition to be a competitor in the sport, not just seeking an edge. When I think of people in the highest caliber of physical fitness, scrawny Valentino Rossi is not one that would pop into my head.

[smileyman]

Val would have to have a drink of champagne (as he is accustomed) and a smoke afterwards. His recovery time may not be that great. Jeff Gordon is definitely not going to out sprint Santonio Holmes let alone do so 40 times a game.

Santonio probably wouldn't recoup to well (or even think well during) after 5 hours strapped in a 150 degree car.

So I think, as a couple of you touched on, conditioning and what your used to would make a difference.

[Trip]

Val would have to have a drink of champagne (as he is accustomed) and a smoke afterwards. His recovery time may not be that great. Jeff Gordon is definitely not going to out sprint Santonio Holmes let alone do so 40 times a game.

Santonio probably wouldn't recoup to well (or even think well during) after 5 hours strapped in a 150 degree car.

So I think, as a couple of you touched on, conditioning and what your used to would make a difference.

I don't know I could see Santanio surviving it. Hell look at fatass Tony Stewart and some of the old timers in the truck/Busch Series. Santanio could hang with them in that type of conditioning.

[pickle.of.doom]

I wonder how much that changes when you reach the level of WSBK/MotoGP though. The reason most of us regular track day riders get tired, IMO, is because of nerves. That takes a huge physical and mental toll.

In other words, I wonder how tired a pro racer would be after racing 40 minutes compared to a track day rider riding at their own limits for 40 minutes. :idk:

Yeah, I think how much something takes its toll on your body definitely depends on how often you do the activity, for sure. Not only for the nerves/mental aspect of it, but actually doing it, whatever it is, works up all the muscles and other parts that you just can't replicate in a workout or by being generally physically fit.

[smileyman]

Yeah, I think how much something takes its toll on your body definitely depends on how often you do the activity, for sure. Not only for the nerves/mental aspect of it, but actually doing it, whatever it is, works up all the muscles and other parts that you just can't replicate in a workout or by being generally physically fit.

You think muscle memory has anything to do with that? Or is it just that you don't have the mental effort to trigger and coordinate the muscles for each task? Crazy how a beat up late 30's NFL back can go just as hard and fast as a fresh 22 year old NCAA back...

[fasternyou929]

I don't think there would be a difference. Take for example running a 100m dash. If you lined up a fat guy and a gold medal athlete and told them to go 100%, they are both going to put incredible physical stresses on their body, the athlete will recover faster and obiviously whip the fuck hell out of the fat guy, because of his conditioning though. As a gp rider would be ready to go again a lot faster and be done a lot sooner than a track day novice.Agreed, both giving 100% will tire each person out. My point was more to compare the fatigue felt by track day riders and MotoGP/WSBK racers. I think we may be over-sympathizing for the pro racers of our sport, based on our riding experiences. Maybe.

Your comparison is perfect to make the point I originally tried to, that the fatigue experienced by a track day rider may not be indicative of a pro racer. And not just because of physical training.

You see, the fat guy giving 100% in the 100m dash will exhert himself, but he isn't going to be nervous/on edge the whole time he's running. Can't say the same for a track day rider, and I think that's where a lot of the "exhausted after 15-20 minute sessions" comes in.

In other words, I wonder how much of the fatigue we all feel comes from riding, and how much of it is nerves, which I doubt plays in much at the top levels and wouldn't apply to "field heroes".

[Trip]

In other words, I wonder how much of the fatigue we all feel comes from riding, and how much of it is nerves, which I doubt plays in much at the top levels and wouldn't apply to "field heroes".

Depends on what sport it is as well. I played lacrosse and the first few games and practices I played at full speed, I was hella nervous about getting hit with that little damn rubber ball at over 100mph. Football probably is the same way until after you get that one big hit and you either lose your nerves or just cant take it anymore.