Rotella T synthetic

[zed]

don't know if any of you use this in your bikes but I do, I started about 3 years ago. I used to get it at walmart for like $12 a gal. I stopped and got some for Tina's bike today and it was $19/gal. that sucks. hell even the walmart brand oil was $10/gal (that don't get used in the bike, just the truck)

[OneSickPsycho]

don't know if any of you use this in your bikes but I do, I started about 3 years ago. I used to get it at walmart for like $12 a gal. I stopped and got some for Tina's bike today and it was $19/gal. that sucks. hell even the walmart brand oil was $10/gal (that don't get used in the bike, just the truck)

$19/gal doesn't sound that bad.

[zed]

$19/gal doesn't sound that bad.

it's not, just how much it has gone up in 3 years. I looked at one of the parts houses today and they wanted $22/gal.

[JARVIS518]

i use the same stuff and i also use the walmart stuff for the gf truck

[Amber Lamps]

don't know if any of you use this in your bikes but I do, I started about 3 years ago. I used to get it at walmart for like $12 a gal. I stopped and got some for Tina's bike today and it was $19/gal. that sucks. hell even the walmart brand oil was $10/gal (that don't get used in the bike, just the truck)


Ok I'm seriously not following you around to pick on you or anything I promise... I've heard of people using the Shell stuff to great success my self but I've always used Amsoil 20/50 for $8 a quart which is $24 an oil change. Now my question is about "friction modifiers" and the effects on a wet clutch system. Also,there have been several debates surrounding the different types of synthetics and their various positives and negatives. Heck,I've seen Suzuki brand full synthetic for $6/qt just recently.

BTW
Here's my favorite link for this discussion followed by an excerpt,

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/motorcycle/how_to/mc_oil.html

HTHS VISCOSITY (A BETTER MEASURE):
Although oil manufacturers don't tend to advertise their High Temp High Shear (HTHS) viscosity ratings, you can obtain them from most manufacturers by asking directly. This test is of how well the oil behaves as a lubricant at high speed under high stress and high shear while running under load at approximate full operating temperature for the oil (150°C). The higher the HTHS number, the better a job the oil does in preventing engine destruction under real world operating conditions, and the thicker the boundary layer of oil on a spinning bearing surface will build up. On the other hand, the lower the number, the easier a time the engine has spinning up (changing RPM's) because of the lower amount of work required to move the oil. As a result, you'll generally find lower HTHS numbers in oils that permit the engine to be a bit zippier, but you're trading off reliability for this power benefit.
Most motorcycle engines are looking for a minimum HTHS value of 2.9 (required for JASO MA & MB standards as minimum HTHS value). Like all forms of viscosity, HTHS values break down with use of the oil and degrade over time. Note that not all manufacturers HTHS values break down at the same rate under the same conditions, depending on the formulation of the oil, the viscosity stabilizers/enhancers used, and acid-neutralizers used.
Some comparison HTHS numbers for fresh oils:
Castrol R4 (5W40/USA) - 3.9
Castrol GPS (10W40/USA) - 4.1
Castrol GPS (20W50/USA) - 4.6
Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle 10W40 - 4.2
Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle 20W50 - 4.9 to 5.0
Mobil 1 MX4T (10w40/USA) - 3.9
Mobil 1 VTwin (20w50/USA) - 4.9
Redline Synthetic 10W40 - 4.7 (NOTE: No JASO-MA rating found)
Shell Rotella Synthetic - Greater than 4.0 (they wouldn't elaborate further even when we asked; note that no Rotella products are JASO-MA rated as I write this due to sulfated ash content levels).
NOTE: The /USA info is marked because these are values provided by the manufacturers for their US-market production oils listed; if the same oil is available in other markets, it may have different formulations and differing HTHS values.
ALSO NOTE: Valvoline's HTHS values are unpublished, but we have an information request in with them for this info (Mobil's is also unpublished, but a call to their tech-engineers provided the above answers).

[ZUKIMON]

I used Rotella T in my Radian and my Katana. I've always heard good things about it and it is what the NASCAR engine builders use in those engines......so I figure it has to be good. IMHO, nothing gets run harder than a race engine in a NASCAR car/truck.

This brings up something that I have been working on lately.........I'm going to go start a thread about it in Tech. ;) :D

***EDIT***

http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?p=171424#post171424 ;)

[Homeslice]

I use it for both car and bike

[zed]

Ok I'm seriously not following you around to pick on you or anything I promise...

hey, if you can't have a somewhat heated discussion without actually being pissed at someone you are not a good person where it counts.

[Amber Lamps]

hey, if you can't have a somewhat heated discussion without actually being pissed at someone you are not a good person where it counts.


Cool! Now to start a fight with the guy that says,"if it's good enough for NASCAR,it's good enough for me.":whistle:

[ZUKIMON]

Cool! Now to start a fight with the guy that says,"if it's good enough for NASCAR,it's good enough for me.":whistle:

:D Not exactly what I said, but.....touche. ;) You can't knock the stuff. I mean, it's held high upon a pedestal for as long as I can remember. I don't know how many engine builders that I have heard over the years telling me that it's all they use to break in a new engine (keep in mind that I have been an auto tech for almost 15 years now). I think a Synthetic would be better in my current bike, but I wouldn't be afraid to run Rot. if I had to.

**EDIT** BTW, I hate NASCAR.......despise would be a better word. :D

[Amber Lamps]

I used Rotella T in my Radian and my Katana. I've always heard good things about it and it is what the NASCAR engine builders use in those engines......so I figure it has to be good. IMHO, nothing gets run harder than a race engine in a NASCAR car/truck.

This brings up something that I have been working on lately.........I'm going to go start a thread about it in Tech. ;) :D

***EDIT***

http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?p=171424#post171424 ;)

How many cars in NASCAR have wet clutches? Even a NASCAR engine doesn't deal with the piston velocities found in a motorcycle engine. This is what I know,I have 30,000 miles on the clutch in my current bike,I had 42,000 on my '03's clutch when I traded it in using Amsoil. I went thru about a clutch a year on my '97 YZF1000 and my '95 FZR1000 using car oil,which I changed every 2,000 miles (no bs). Neither my '01 GSXR1000 nor my '00 Hayabusa lived long enough for me to comment on clutch life...:whistle:

[zed]

Rotella T in the blue bottle is a group 3 synthetic.

[zed]

How many cars in NASCAR have wet clutches? Even a NASCAR engine doesn't deal with the piston velocities found in a motorcycle engine. This is what I know,I have 30,000 miles on the clutch in my current bike,I had 42,000 on my '03's clutch when I traded it in using Amsoil. I went thru about a clutch a year on my '97 YZF1000 and my '95 FZR1000 using car oil,which I changed every 2,000 miles (no bs). Neither my '01 GSXR1000 nor my '00 Hayabusa lived long enough for me to comment on clutch life...:whistle:

what kind of car oil? that's the real question. I wouldn't put just any auto oil in my bike.

[ZUKIMON]

Dude, I ain't got no fucking clue about oils and such. :D If I really wanted to know about them intelectually, I would ask this guy I used to work with who retired from the Navy as a Diesel Mech/Instructor. He taught oil refineing and diesel mechanics to the newbs. He knows his shit about oils and what to look for and such. Me.........I'm just your average run of the mill, flunkie!! :D

[BobTheBiker]

I run Rotella full synthetic in anything that runs well enough to warrant it. its great stuff for bikes IMO. I get it for about $20 a gallon.

[Amber Lamps]

Rotella T in the blue bottle is a group 3 synthetic.


Which means that it is NOT a real synthetic at all but a highly refined crude oil..

TRUE synthetic is NOT made from crude oil as has been stated.......
Synthetic has changed in recent years. A little history first....
In the days non synthetic oils were group 1 and group 2 base stocks. These are crude oils and polyphenins. Synthetic was as it was stated group 4 and group 5 base stocks which are PAO and POA esters (man made extreme quality esters which mimic esters once used from whale fat).
Then came the big Mobil 1 vs Castrol lawsuit. Mobil 1 contended that Castrol was using false advertising. Castrol had changed there formulation on there Full Synthetic oil. It NO longer was made from group 4 synthetic base stocks but was indeed made from group 3 base stock which is a conventional crude base stock, then severely hydro cracked and refined. group 3 is much higher quality than group 2 oils. Well it made it all the way to the supreme court were they ruled that oils made with group 3 base stocks are indeed synthetic because of the extreme amount of refinement, it isn't anything naturally occurring anymore. So Castrol was allowed to continue marketing the oil as fully synthetic. After this lawsuit a precedence was set for the definition of synthetic oil, one by one manufacturers started reformulating their synthetic motor oils from group 4's to group 3's , since group 3 is much cheaper to use.
This brings us to today most so called synthetics are just dino oil (conventional). Dont get me wrong the group 3 is far superior to group 2 it has much better flow characteristics in the cold and better resistance to heat. But you still are only using a conventional crude oil that is ultra refined.
Here is a list of the only Oils that are true full synthetic (groups 4 or 5).
Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal purple, Redline, some Schaffers, some Motul, Valvoline synpower is a blend of goup 3 and 4, Castrol makes (1) full synthetic it is 0w-30 only and has to say made in Germany on the bottle otherwise it is group 3,the bargain oil out there is Valvoline maxlife synthetic blend which is group 4 and a group 2 blend it performs really well at a reasonable price.

ok Now YOU know the difference time to decide,
group 4 and 5 do outperform the others, but by how much ??? Oil has come an incredibly long way. No longer do we utilize crappy group 1 basestocks (at least not much). Now most conventional oils in fact are group 2 group 3 mixes to meet ever tightening lubricant requirements and tests. The pseudo full synthetics whih are group 3 and really good oils, one of the best is Pennzoil Platinum actually probably the best group 3 oil on the market.
My advice is to decide will you extend oil change intervals out 6-10,000 miles to make true use of the true full synthetic, do you subject your vehicle to severe conditions do you start your vehicle in subzero temperatures if so then synthetic may be your thing...........come on over to bob is the oil guy forum and learn much much more about oil........
Source(s):
www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums

[Amber Lamps]

what kind of car oil? that's the real question. I wouldn't put just any auto oil in my bike.


Castrol GTX which at the time had all the forum/message board's seals of approval! Just like Rotella does now....:whistle:

[zed]

Which means that it is NOT a real synthetic at all but a highly refined crude oil..

ok Now YOU know the difference time to decide

I knew that about the group 3 oil. ;) I'm sure others didn't though.

even using this oil I change it before 3K miles.

[Amber Lamps]

Oh and the latest HTHS numbers on Amsoil 20/50

[zed]

Castrol GTX which at the time had all the forum/message board's seals of approval! Just like Rotella does now....:whistle:

I've got 3 years street/road course/dragstrip use on it.

don't mess with me but it's got less than 20K on the clock. if you worked in a dealership you would get sick of bikes too. :no:

[Amber Lamps]

I knew that about the group 3 oil. ;) I'm sure others didn't though.

even using this oil I change it before 3K miles.


Oh yea and don't get me wrong if you change your oil every 3 months then you're good...I don't anymore. I change per the manufacture's recommended interval of about 5,000 miles. I know guys that swear you can go to 7-10,000 using Amsoil but I'm not that crazy...yet.

[Amber Lamps]

I've got 3 years street/road course/dragstrip use on it.

don't mess with me but it's got less than 20K on the clock. if you worked in a dealership you would get sick of bikes too. :no:

Well then I'd have to find a new job!!!!

[zed]

Oh yea and don't get me wrong if you change your oil every 3 months then you're good...I don't anymore. I change per the manufacture's recommended interval of about 5,000 miles. I know guys that swear you can go to 7-10,000 using Amsoil but I'm not that crazy...yet.

I remember in the early 90's when I was working at a Ford dealership people would bring in synthetic oil for us to do the oil change (we didn't carry any). the customers told us that you never have to do another oil change, just change the filter. I didn't believe it then either.

no, I wouldn't go that far without an oil change. I'm not even going to 5K. oil and filter are a lot cheaper than motor work.

Well then I'd have to find a new job!!!!

unfortunately, I am trying right now.

[Amber Lamps]

I remember in the early 90's when I was working at a Ford dealership people would bring in synthetic oil for us to do the oil change (we didn't carry any). the customers told us that you never have to do another oil change, just change the filter. I didn't believe it then either.

no, I wouldn't go that far without an oil change. I'm not even going to 5K. oil and filter are a lot cheaper than motor work.



unfortunately, I am trying right now.

Hey I know people who bought group 5 synthetic and have 50,000+ miles just changing the filter and adding a "booster" every 10,000 I think. There have been several very positive tests on this subject. The thing is,cars/bikes/oils/gasolines have changed and you just don't get the metal/dirt in you motor like you used to. I used to work for a garage doing oil changes when I was young and the crude that used to come out of the drain plug was terrible! I later worked for Ashland oil and I would see the used oil from Valvoline. Heck,some of that stuff looked almost re-usable.

[zed]

Hey I know people who bought group 5 synthetic and have 50,000+ miles just changing the filter and adding a "booster" every 10,000 I think. There have been several very positive tests on this subject. The thing is,cars/bikes/oils/gasolines have changed and you just don't get the metal/dirt in you motor like you used to. I used to work for a garage doing oil changes when I was young and the crude that used to come out of the drain plug was terrible! I later worked for Ashland oil and I would see the used oil from Valvoline. Heck,some of that stuff looked almost re-usable.

maybe it's just me, just like some people will change to syn after they change their oil at 20 miles for the first oil change. I didn't and don't suggest people do it either. I''m not going to give information that "I" don't trust to someone. I don't want the liability.

wondering, that 50K miles, is that on a bike?

[Amber Lamps]

maybe it's just me, just like some people will change to syn after they change their oil at 20 miles for the first oil change. I didn't and don't suggest people do it either. I''m not going to give information that "I" don't trust to someone. I don't want the liability.

wondering, that 50K miles, is that on a bike?


Oh no a few cars have/are doing it. I'll see if I can find it but there was a test a few years ago that a company ran two motors at full throttle,one with regular oil and one with synthetic. I forget how long the syn motor ran but it was forever!

[zed]

Oh no a few cars have/are doing it. I'll see if I can find it but there was a test a few years ago that a company ran two motors at full throttle,one with regular oil and one with synthetic. I forget how long the syn motor ran but it was forever!

ok, I'll go with that. wasn't that a castrol commercial though?

it'd have to be one hell of an oil to take the abuse of a motorcycle engine for 50K

[Amber Lamps]

ok, I'll go with that. wasn't that a castrol commercial though?

it'd have to be one hell of an oil to take the abuse of a motorcycle engine for 50K


I remember that one! Nah it was back when syn first came out...and it was an independent lab test not a commercial.

[Rsv1000R]

Depending on the bike, and what I can find I use either Redline, Amsoil, or Mobil 1, and I use M1 in all the cars. I've taken some of the car engines apart, and at 80,000+ miles the cam lobes didn't have any wear, and there was no sluge in the engine.

[Homeslice]

For people who don't race, it's a moot point..........The average bike owner only logs about 12K on a bike before selling it. For those people, spending $8 per quart on exotic oils is a complete waste.

[zed]

For people who don't race, it's a moot point..........The average bike owner only logs about 12K on a bike before selling it. For those people, spending $8 per quart on exotic oils is a complete waste.

yep, I've had people ask about break in, what oil to use, some ask what will happen if they don't break it in like the manufacturer says. a couple I told pretty much what you said about most people not keeping them more than a few years so it don't really matter what you do.

[Rsv1000R]

For people who don't race, it's a moot point..........The average bike owner only logs about 12K on a bike before selling it. For those people, spending $8 per quart on exotic oils is a complete waste.

yep, I've had people ask about break in, what oil to use, some ask what will happen if they don't break it in like the manufacturer says. a couple I told pretty much what you said about most people not keeping them more than a few years so it don't really matter what you do.

Well shoot, if that's the case why change the oil at all.

[askmrjesus]

Well shoot, if that's the case why change the oil at all.

To keep your garage floor from building up too much traction.

JC

[RedRider2k2]

I dont think anyone has mentioned it but if you're worried about using Rotella because it's "Car oil" and has "Friction modifiers" well...Stop worrying.

Rotella is a Diesel oil. It doesnt have the same additive package and doesnt effect wet clutches. One thing people used to worry about with it was foaming. But since it runs just fine with all the gearing in the front end of a Diesel and is also called for in some Alison Automatics, it's safe to say it's fine to use.

[zed]

Well shoot, if that's the case why change the oil at all.

I've seen 3 year old bikes come in to get their first oil change with the customer saying something along the lines of I finally got those 600 miles on her.

never underestimate the stupidity of some people.

[Homeslice]

I'm convinced that the reason most guys use expensive oils is so they can brag about it. Men are judged by how well they treat their machinery. Ever notice how the average oil change interval has gotten lower and lower, even while the quality of oil has increased? I remember 20 years ago the standard was like 7,500 miles, then it dropped to 5,000, then 3,000, and now you have guys doing 2,000. Meanwhile the oil they use is twice as good as what was available back then. :scratch:

Do I use synthetic, yes, either Rotella or M1, but that's because my car is older and has hydraulic lifters that often get clogged with deposits if you don't use a good oil. And those oils only cost about $4 a quart, not $8 like Amsoil or Redline.

[Rsv1000R]

I'm convinced that the reason most guys use expensive oils is so they can brag about it. Men are judged by how well they treat their machinery. Ever notice how the average oil change interval has gotten lower and lower, even while the quality of oil has increased? I remember 20 years ago the standard was like 7,500 miles, then it dropped to 5,000, then 3,000, and now you have guys doing 2,000. Meanwhile the oil they use is twice as good as what was available back then. :scratch:

The engine clearances aren't the same either.

I switched over because I had turbos, and read an article in turbo about synthetic, and saw the test results they published.

Since then, I saw how little wear there was on cam lobes at like 85k miles.

[Amber Lamps]

I'm convinced that the reason most guys use expensive oils is so they can brag about it. Men are judged by how well they treat their machinery. Ever notice how the average oil change interval has gotten lower and lower, even while the quality of oil has increased? I remember 20 years ago the standard was like 7,500 miles, then it dropped to 5,000, then 3,000, and now you have guys doing 2,000. Meanwhile the oil they use is twice as good as what was available back then. :scratch:

Do I use synthetic, yes, either Rotella or M1, but that's because my car is older and has hydraulic lifters that often get clogged with deposits if you don't use a good oil. And those oils only cost about $4 a quart, not $8 like Amsoil or Redline.


Oh yea,I just got my "I use Amsoil because I am Wunder-Shone" t-shirts back from the graphics shop last night. I can't WAIT to rock those babies at Hooters on Bike Night!!!!

I hate to say this because I'm gonna jinx myself but since going to Amsoil I have not had even one engine,trans or clutch problem. I swear by it and for the $10 extra bucks or so I pay per oil change... Besides,I change every 5,000 anyway. If I was back using some cheap crap I'd probably have to change every month because of the shifting situation. I like my smooth shifts.

[Yamerhaw]

I dont think anyone has mentioned it but if you're worried about using Rotella because it's "Car oil" and has "Friction modifiers" well...Stop worrying.

Rotella is a Diesel oil. It doesnt have the same additive package and doesnt effect wet clutches. One thing people used to worry about with it was foaming. But since it runs just fine with all the gearing in the front end of a Diesel and is also called for in some Alison Automatics, it's safe to say it's fine to use.


i change oil, that's my job, some customers are changing rotella in there trucks at 12-15k, so it seems to be good oil for a diesel, i've never ran it in a bike so i dont know much about it, all i do know is that a diesel tachs about 3k, and a bike tachs about 13-17k, :idk:

[Yamerhaw]

Oh yea,I just got my "I use Amsoil because I am Wunder-Shone" t-shirts back from the graphics shop last night. I can't WAIT to rock those babies at Hooters on Bike Night!!!!

I hate to say this because I'm gonna jinx myself but since going to Amsoil I have not had even one engine,trans or clutch problem. I swear by it and for the $10 extra bucks or so I pay per oil change... Besides,I change every 5,000 anyway. If I was back using some cheap crap I'd probably have to change every month because of the shifting situation. I like my smooth shifts.


i agree with the smooth shifting, and i'm an amsoil guy myself, i believe when they started i think in the 70's, they made a gaurantee that if you ever had an engine fail, blow, because of an oil related isssue, they would repair or replace your engine, and have never had to repair or replace one.....now i dont know how many engines let go because of an oil issue, but i dont think any other companies offer a gaurantee like that

all i know is Amsoil is good shit, no doubt, and if you're gonna run car/diesel oil in your bike, at least use synthetic

[Apoc]

$19/gal doesn't sound that bad.


Ya, I pay 45$/gallon for Ipone 2 Stroke snowmobile injector oil for my sled. I'd kill for some 19$/gallon oil. :whistle:

[RedRider2k2]

i change oil, that's my job, some customers are changing rotella in there trucks at 12-15k, so it seems to be good oil for a diesel, i've never ran it in a bike so i dont know much about it, all i do know is that a diesel tachs about 3k, and a bike tachs about 13-17k, :idk:

Ok, well I'm a Truck/Diesel Mechanic (Not sure why this matters, but I'll play along) and use Rotella in my bike just like thousands of other people and I can tell you that it doesn't matter. It works flawlessly. Our oil change intervals are pushing 30,000 Miles still without a problem and we dont even use Rotella. We use what could be considered cheap, bulk Diesel oil.

I've seen pictures of sportbike engines used strictly for drag racing that were ran on Rotella. Tearing them down after years of racing showed very little for wear.